Kushal Mehra: The ONLY Problem With the Right Wing Today! | Dostcast w/ @TheCarvakaPodcast

Kela is the host of the KVA podcast7 before we start the episode I've got a little announcement I have a product called prop podcaster tools it's 70 plus PDFs and resources you can use to start and scale your podcast sadly there are too many podcasts in the world and sadly most of these podcasts fail because people don't know how to scale their podcast Pro podcaster Tools is the solution for that you have everything from Outreach to monetization to growth to research to production to post-production and also how to crack virality the toughest of all especially if you're on YouTube you can use your podcast to gain leverage and enter rooms and be with people you would have no idea how successful you can get if you have a podcast that does well if you have a podcast that keep scaling you get to interact with the best in the game you get to meet all the VIPs you get to make friends with high netw worth individuals and all of those things convert into opportunities that make you money grow 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you know we'd uh jur come in live to you from DIY Palace after our cocktails no no I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm we're in we're in Mangalore um for a Fest and uh we figured use this time to record a podcast because I'm also guilty of it and many many opportunistic young young content creators like me who figure out if the experts are talking about it and if we talk about it in a V down version we will get views so let's do it I want to talk about hinda Free [Laughter] Riders you I was really paying attention when you were saying all these things at the today yeah but huh you have been active in the fold of the new right you've been active in propagating and promoting not just the Hindu identity in India but also globally before the concept even became mainstream before it had the sort of waves it did on Twitter you've been added since 2008 right yeah you've been active in these circles where the the intellectual rightwing was just forming we are now in 2023 M 15 years later you see all kinds of charlatans and bigots and csts emerging and painting themselves as the paragons of hinda as using hinda as their Birthright to Garner views yeah and how have they coopted this term so see this term was basically introduced by me a few days ago when I was having a random chat with a friend of mine it it all started through a WhatsApp chat and that friend is Harsh Madu suzan Gupta who is a very much you know a part of this uh fight fight intellectual argument that we are having with what we like to call csts and I told him that I'm coining a definition I'm going to call this this lot Hindu Free Riders they are not necessarily casst they are many things but I wrote the definition down because definitions have to be written down sure so if somebody asks as per me who is a Hindu Free Rider a person who has nothing to do with the core principles of hinda this person is just a run-ofthe-mill bigot who sees hinda as the C non of Indian political discourse and jumps ship and free rides on it but deep down inside this person disagrees with the core principles of hinda which demand the dilution of cast and Creed based ethnicities and a standard in Indian identity so this person tries to ride the hindutva wave and then adds the poison pill of bigotry towards different sects in India so this is a hinda free rider definition as per me so break down so the first thing is what are the core principles of hindutva now this is a complex issue one has to look into the history starting point because I know com and sword by hind s Gupta he looks at the entire history of political Hinduism see what is Hindu basically in many ways it is political Hinduism it is Hindu Hinduism that responds so Hinduism spiritual but hind basically was a was a very specific response to a very specific problem that was surrounding our society right post the uh Islamic Advent in India and after that the Advent of Christianity through the British then the Portuguese and the Dutch East India Company and many others Christianity also entered India now somebody might say no the Syrian Christians came at this I'm not debating that I'm just saying political Christianity and political Islam came in India now whether they are good or bad is also not the question here they came in India with them they brought certain certain ideas and ideologies and monotheism Works in a very different different way when compared to let's say non- monotheistic faiths non- monotheistic faiths could be European paganism or it could be what is in India the dharmic pantheon right why would you not call it polytheistic as opposed to non pothis it's not polytheistic ad vant is monistic monism then there is pantheism in India there is pantheism in India Hinduism is not just polytheistic it is many many things and polytheism so what hindutva did was there was a certain reality around it there were for the first time in its life a Hindu faced predatory proz by predatory priation means people and faiths at an idea level who believe that just because you don't believe in their God or their deity they're going to hell they are the Heathen they are the Infidel they are the kafir for the first time they were introduced to a very different ideology see right from the Riga onwards there are tribal conflicts in the Riga but they don't hate each other's Gods H whether it's Rua Mandela 6 Mandela 7 Mandela 3 right to the end of the Rua Mandela 10 the gods are combined together there might be hierarchies right a VNA white might think my VNA white God is good but they will not say the shite God is bad mhm they don't go up in arms yeah they don't do that they they so the non- monotheistic way was always incorporating Gods right now for the first time comes this ideology that says hang on no no your God is false you're going to hell we need to do something about it so the Christian way was I need to save you the Islamic way was dawa dawat that's that's the first thing and then obviously both Christianity and Islam also had a muscular way right the inquisitions happened the crus Army the pap Army the papal bull release the fatwas in Islam and and you know the record of gajini Guri many other even the the the mughals later on and these are all recorded historical facts written by mul Co quote historians it's not like I'm making this up their quot historians said all these things so if that is the scenario the landscape of society changes now for that Hindu Society you know dealt with its old way whether it was the bti movement or many other ways and Kabir pantis nanak panes and many were there but eventually came a time where the political landscape changed now the Treaty of versales happen and then you have the concept of nation states from nation states then West has Enlightenment and they have these secular Church separate separate separatism separatism is separation and then you have Protestant Revolution and many things happen in the west and then they end up Conquering the world and their realities are imposed on us and now you have to deal with them and this is where political Hinduism comes as a response a response to deal with what's happening around you it's it's not good enough to say so this is where hind comes historically as a response to them so what are the core principles of hindutva that is a very hotly debated topic because key figures in hindutva whether we talk about you know um uh now there is a debate whether Swami vivean was hindutva or not I think he was part of the Hindu movement even if he did not explicitly say so and even Hindu all thinks they are whether Swami Vian Dan sarasti B gadar but is hind applied retrospectively on historical figures or did they for example was aware of the term the term hinda is right at the time of Dan sarasti that's what hindol is shown in his book so these things existed like you know bankim and many other CH Chandra Basu after that and then obviously the most robust answer for hindutva came from sarer but sarer buil buil on the ideologies of people before him and today its latest exponent in the absolute political realm is maybe the BJP and in the social realm is the rash swak s the RSS so there they have certain core principles like you know you have to put India before everything it doesn't matter what pth you belong to you could be a Muslim pth you could be a VN pth you could be my pth which is charak could be any punt seram right country first then we will figure the rest out then there are other principles in hindutva sorry for sounding simplistic but isn't the problem of country first solved by the word patriotism you can just be more patriotic or nationalistic why would you need to have the label Hindu specifically to come to help because in India we had a unique sectarianism right we we were see people talk about diversity in the United States of America but even they had American exceptionalism right underneath the or the superet above the diversity of America is American exceptionalism that America is unique it has a unique history yeah similarly in India what binds us we can't just say that you have to be good to the country why why should I be good to India nationalism and patriotism are just Concepts break there is no such thing as I'm not a nationalist or a patriot I'm a civilizational attachment to India is to the civilization why do I support the sovereignty of India is because to support this civilization I'm primarily I'm a civilizational I don't believe in the idea of nationalism or patriotism I'm just playing along the game I am not that so what so before you delate delineate Hindu more I want to ask you something I've interviewed certain members of the left and I've picked up through social listening via Twitter the term itself I think it's it's too often it's misused it's uh it's villainized uh it's less understood it is what the left often uses to label a large sect of the right of people who are just coming into their own as Hindus vation is this is a definition problem or is it because it's a convenience straw man that the left has used to sort of you know attack it's a bit of both it's a definition problem and a convenient stman both because if the left what the left calls hinda people cast this hind is the biggest anti- cast movement of India I don't think that's said enough in the National discourse right Inda Gandhi basically had a cut a deal with the Marxist in the ' 70s and since then it's pretty much uh a done deal right yeah so simple things like seven shackles of Hindu Society if you want I can look it up on the top my you can just put a clipping I would recommend really once like when we are talking right now make sure that it comes on the screen seven shackles of Hindu Society by saer the number of people who don't start and scale their podcast is tremendous mostly because they struggle with getting guests on their podcast they think getting guests is some kind of a dubious scam where the elite somehow have access to the best of the world and the rest of us are supposed to deal with behind closed doors elit exist we will never have access to them I am here to tell you nothing could be further from the truth I'm here to tell you nothing is further from the truth you send 50 call DMS you get two responses you get you send 18 emails you get one response the odds are always stacked in your favor you add hard work already you add Frameworks and templates on top of that and you're golden in Pro podcaster Tools which is my gift to the world to make podcasting accessible to everyone to make podcasting's rewards accessible to everyone in the country you have these cold email templates that you can use to email influencer agencies to email influencers to email publishing agencies literally you start your podcast in just a room or on a zoom call no need to spend any money from there you reverse engineer a way to get bigger guests on it's not about blindly working and King King it's it's not about 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content and stop seeing other people get famous using podcasts now is the time to attack get in charge of your life and build your own media Empire do nothing more than getting the product and then I'll see you all inside it where we will help you go from zero to 100 and help you start and scale your podcast like it's no one's business back to the episode has talked about it Roy Bundi B bandi vok bandi SPI my just char [Music] certain JIS oras of society are not allowed to study the vas um inter dining inter dining allowed Temple entry allowed uh endog as in certain waras or casts are not allowed to travel outside India s seven shackles of Hindu the first accusation you know H against hind is that they Cas now A M fundamental I think the direct quote is there in Ram mad's book The hindutva Paradigm Ram madav G uh book where one of my fact check I think it was balas deas who clearly said that jati Varna should die okay he clearly said that this system of discrimination has to die for Hindu Society to prosper then you have recently the current SAR chalak of the rash swak sh mamut he said so antic so that's the first accusation against them that is flawed now there are certain other accusations where you know what they do while they are they are kind of true is they will use gurug golwalkar one of the sarasan chalak and his quotes from a bunch of thoughts right now that is fine he did say those things in a bunch of thoughts but then what they don't realizes later on and again I'll send you the links to back it up sure I have it in my email also I had once written a very long email to a left wing Journal saying that you have quoted these quotes but then why don't you quote the quot of gurug gwalker saying I I reject all those quotes of mine it's like if someone racks their statements they have the authority to also have have them have the same light that the again I think in the last two years or so again don't remember the date exactly uh Shri moan bhagwat in an open press conference said that we don't take those quotes of literally because unlike see the words of the RSS are not like the words of God in the Bible or The God in the Quran that they can't change these are human beings their thoughts change so here I have clearly shown that these accusations against the Hindu movement being upper cast is just blatantly false another point if they were upper cast right if the bti Jan party look you can vote for who whosoever you want to that's not my issue but there is a beautiful book written by nalin mea called the new BJP I've heard of it he has done a analysis of how the BJP creates a representative model people don't like to read the problem with the this entire discourse is nobody reads now in the new BJP he has clearly shown that how maybe in the beginning the BJP was in its na stages J time brah man party hypothetically today the BJP is primarily an OBC scheduled cast and a bit of scheduled tribe party that's what it is that's what Abit told me off camera yeah so BJP is basically scst OBC party now so what is hindutva then how is hindutva what these people talk about now every other thing the left only has this issue the next accusation they can't hold that BJP is capitalist because by Ang BJP capitalist BJP is just a welfarist party just like the congresses if I was to show case the policies on economics of BJP or congress pretty much the ideology is the same another basic ideological framework of the btia J party is Gandhi and socialism according to their constitution Gandhi and socialism and Aatma manad integral humanism by integral humanism it's a new way of saying Socialism or Right audience [Music] podcast in terms of electrification of households 1% Muslims Muslim households are electrified more than Hindu households no problem so I can actually back this with proper references and I think shamik R's report uh had also covered this electrification of households anim I think one of the issues is yina it is primarily the lies or the propaganda is primarily spread through pop culture more than it spread through Publications and statements from uh Statesmen and and journalists many recently this is separate prime minister is addressing something like that have you seen that and this Muslim student stands up and he says my name is so and so and so and so he says J jagat right so he says he says nothing the Muslim student so then pran mry Modi says again and then what these editors have done is it's labeled as and Modi is shown with like those so that he looks like this you know Hindu Renaissance Man something like that but I think where where like straight statements like this can be often misconstrued to show direct hate what can you do about it we live in the digital age where all kinds of crazy things are shared about even me I me I'm nobody he's the Prime Minister you you have to live with it now we are almost there with deep fakes what are we going to do so once again you have to judge a political party with their policy document and the execution of policy es through that document if you can show the case that the BJP decides to specifically Target Muslims and not give them schemes show me the research I will change my mind and I will criticize the BJP I have checked the government uh allocation see first of all why was the number of Muslims with less number of houses there should be asked to the congress not the BJP because [Music] Muslim ACC what are your criticism of BP facts it should be based on facts because I don't like someone so I manufacture facts is what bothers me don't manufacture facts you don't like the BJP fine but that's how discourse is which is why the entire discourse around what hinda is is so muddied especially you know in a person like me who's like 6 months in India 6 months outside India and I'm meeting people in think tanks or I meet members of parliament in Canada I'll meet a few senators in America and off the Record when we have these discussions and they are so misguided when it comes to India and all sorts of absurd absurdities are passed off and then you just keep on correcting them like even if papers like New York Times the The Washington Post and The Economist if they're going to write blatant rubbish which is so easily uh you know verified to be false like there was this story floating around that Evolution nature magazine May now there is a blogger an evolutionary biologist substack blog evolution is why evolution is true I love that evolutionary biologist I have totally BL blanked out on his name but I've read his books also is his blog is why evolution is true he wrote a long ass blog based on that nature article because he trusted nature magazine it's a prestigious magazine but that article was lying because that article relied on scroll wire because they lied so this is like a citation Loop everybody is citing each other one lie and then that lie is cited now what is the real story about Evolution there is a criticism of the BJP which I did on my podcast with Anand ratan M both of us criticized so what the government did was in the new education policy they pushed because hu had all started with covid you know education standards in India took a like real blow like in India grade five grade six Math skills grade three grade four there are ample researches done on that Foundation or many others these Studies have been replicated so what the government did in the overhauling they said now where the government messed up was they are still teaching evolution by natural selection but after grade 10 now that means if you pick a science stream then there you're taught evolution by natural selection as a fact but my problem with the current government is from grade N grade eight grade ution by that is my criticism of the government it's not like they have decided to remove Evolution from the syllabus they have not they still will teach it but the problem is they're not teaching it as a baseline fact to all kids now the criticism by the left was so tell me so let us then speak on the behalf of every Hindu in the country um for rather not on behlim chrans there is obviously a few things standing in the way one is some Hindus still have a guilt because they don't want to be shown as hard lined righties I'm from a different community and third is if by your definition I start embracing hind as it is I get labeled as almost like someone who's an extremist so why what is the incentive to pick it up is there a need of the hour gone toind yeah everything is Downstream from political power boss interesting term Med 100% agreement as a concept people without the obviously you can yeah because it is and what does it mean for us like how does it how do we enact in our day-to-day life you you just go about living your life just you don't have to do anything you just Hindu demands nothing from you Hindu just demands respecting your society and your culture it doesn't mean every aspect of your culture but that's all in in fact Hindu is such a progressive movement it's against cast discrimination it's for women empowerment the only political party in India before this women's reservation passing in the parliament which was the political party in India that gave 33% or 30% reservations to women in all positions in in in its political structure only BJP did did Congress give it did the CPI and Marxist give it only BJP did the only political party in its political structure that gives reservation to women in key posts only BJP does so what is your problem either then you're a conservative thei ADI who is against all these things like are you against uh the idea of of equality which which stems from the abolition of cast discrimination are you against the idea of women and men being treated equally like human beings what are you against I think unlike you people don't do primary research that's the main thing basic and now I am obliged to do like see if you're only see first of all the problem with most people that I see these days is they don't get out of their Echo Chambers mhm if you are a BJP voter the first thing you should do is read wire and scroll that's the first thing you should do and if you are a left wi voter the first thing you should do is read for that's the first thing you should do that's if you don't do that then you are a lost cause boss you are a lost cause because you you you don't then you are just going to stay in those silos and always be the way you are the only reasonable criticism is all the time the majority is in Fault right majority mhm majority you truly are for egalitarian principles in India you have no option but the BJP today Parts I'm still friends with them I don't have to agree with them on everything I don't even expect the whole country to go to hind but my point is reference point secretly right is far more open than the Left Right allow hxy right want to right con I I could never for the life of me understand what is the distinction between the two and why is the Indian right has such a strong fault line running in the middle of it basically open hind progressives modernists reformist basically people who are Hindus by choice devout Hindus in my case by choice that means that so they're called yes they're not born a Hindu cultural identity Hindu is a is there no like there is no comparison anybody who believes in the birth based cast system and who believes that just because they are born in a certain class they are inferior are wrong that's the only difference between raita and Trad many other differences like what I mean I think um but the primary difference is on the cast issue and what else are there more is RA more like willing to entertain other sides is yeah there is always this idea of like taking us back to our civilizational past for the life of me I don't understand what it means like what do you mean by going to the past and restoring Your Glory exactly there's because it's like I am the ancestor of Lucy what is that first first Luc it's just a convenient [Music] L IM at the end of the day how far do you want it to go it's it's all about that point R is open to ideas from even non-hindu cultures really yes so Western cult how when we were sitting in the cafe this afternoon you said ke India is hanging on not by its democracy but by lots of small temples yes Dharma and multiple reasons why I was surprised number one you spoke about the privatization of temples yeah number second this is coming from a charak right yeah and number three one would even like go to say [Music] press I was looking at it he says back so one could say need of the hour is is actually better democracy not the preservation of temples even though they're very important to civilization Legacy of being a Hindu mhm but you said it is actually these small temples so Freedom index fakey is a paradise for the Press Paradise Congress spe St man argument India is a democracy because India is majority Hindu MJ you check reason at a fundamental level Hinduism is a plural Faith it's not exclusive sence tion 512 1950s unable country Mally majority Hindu majority Islam or fundamentally Hinduism or democracy democracy diversity democracy acceptance Hinduism the truth is one the wise people find it through many ways monotheism problem practice secular church and state separate brance India is not secular in the western sense religion indan state indians love religion they like it religion in 2021 or 22 me 75% Indians are religious boss that's a crazy number 75 to 80% Indians are religious like active religious 50% g h England money is the new God capitalism the Big5 60% athic Nations Canada fastest growing religion none none of the above none of the above no religion the void is growing yeah the void is growing fastest growing Canada nuns last stats Canada nuns in n n no any none of the above huh none of the above Co religion no religion sub fastest growing they identify as that has no they're not even confused 61% overall Western World they are rejecting Christianity lock St and barel same atheism tsunami Islamic world and we are coming back to our roots super favorite you are a Hindu rebirth reincarnation as a disbeliever open Western Nations or is you can also stay in the [Music] southeast aist is punishable 90% plus is monotheism in its is bad news we just lucky they don't take it seriously why why does it still continue to grow the way does then because it's proing it's not growing I mean Christianity grow we not have a mechanism for pro proz ourselves it's a respon it was a response to other the political expansion of other religions [Music] how do you prize because like in other religions the conversion happens in a very physical relever technically as it's alll political Christianity do you know what prophet does the Sunday service YouTu what I found very interesting is that you know he has co-opted Punjabi because he's Punjabi no so he does exorcisms or what do you call it when you heal someone Christianity what do you call it [Laughter] like entertaining videos yeah yeah yeah so I I I remember watching and I was like this is a very open priation of Miracles happening does Hinduism not feel the need to do the same h how does it still explain the fact new AG organized Jag Urban audience sensibilities treater Art of Living decentralized Fai H answer decentralized important approach Road eoms I Am pro Temple freedom but with a cavat the the freedom should be to and from to remain in the government and from the government so if you are a big Temple and you have lots of inputs coming in you should get out of the government and you should take care of your own thing but if you're a small Temple you should think because I've seen it with my own eyes how the government can be a great asset for small temples which is why we are not like Islam and Christianity they are very congregational but it's not that we are not congregational but we are congregational in a very different way we are congregational in our own way which is why big temples Will Survive F huge thing in [Music] 47% India Urban 53% India semiurban or rural correct have you proposed this to someone in the government and I search temples near me you know like sometimes you just want to go visit the temple irrespective of practice it's always nice to find and that and that becomes like a significant for that Community Urban pilgrimage spot yeah for that community it's remarkable how you can see this beauty as a complete atheist if if I'm rejecting God reject everything that has to do with the the daily functioning of proposing or praying to that God once in a I don't agree with anything they I love the temple I just love the way they do the arti and everything I love it I enjoy it I'm going to ask a simplistic question but because this is something because you're so publicly vocally atheist values or up the goodness of your nature and you are in a lot of ways in my private life interacting with you your character shines through far more than some bugs bugs that I know that's not to paint them in a bad light but I'm always wondering where someone like you borrows their morality from the concept of Good and Evil because you don't clearly get it from religion like other people do actually I do get it from the same place where all of you get it from from the society in fact gay but because you became an atheist you must have also rejected stories after a certain point upap where does morality come fromal fiber secular philosophy Christianity Islam Socrates unexamined life unexamined life is a boring life and unexamined life is not worth living like that yeah people who lose faith in a deity or a or a Divine entity they think they start hating itas why I am not an atheist I reject the tag atheist I don't want to be cled with [Music] those Thomas Christopher Richard da multifaceted multifaceted morality that's [Music] true no it's something I always wonder because and then when I ask them this question they're not able to sort of give a definite answer but what you said makes sense is that actually it doesn't matter if you a religionist or an atheist you still borrow your reality from your lived experience and the stories you read as opposed to blindly polarizing from the thing that you identify as why did edar leave Hinduism because he he found it repulsive at the end of his life and it was just a thing I think he had decided I can't stay in this Faith system I think I mean I I don't blame him and the lived experien he had it's just something he had decided that I'm going to leave Hinduism and he had explained it in very detail in I mean I can't it's he has written it why I'm like he was very clear I have to leave this faith and then he became a Buddhist and even his Buddhism was not really Buddhist I mean yeah can we talk more about that yeah because he rejected the two core principles at least one of them for sure the other there is a debate on principl say the Eightfold fourfold truth Versa fourfold path and Eightfold basically I think at the end of the day ambedkar was very angry at Hinduism and I respect ambedkar a lot so he must have taken a call that I'm not dying a Hindu and then he said what do I do I can't be a Muslim and a Christian I'm Buddhist but Buddhism has all these things well I reject them this is new Buddhism that's what it is basically you also said that there are particular facets of Buddhism that are castest in nature is that true yes and for that you have to read my book fair fair fair fair fair okay now this is something I wanted to ask after our conversation this afternoon we were discussing many things about content creators Hindu Free Riders all of those things and what struck me particularly as someone who's younger to you who looks up to you in many many ways are there is a stream of intellectual dishonesty happening in the younger people of our country mostly those like me who have a voice where some of us have haven't done our due diligence and we've decided to take on beasts and institutions that we know little about honestly does an can a young person become intellectually honest can and if they can how do they go about that path ke they constantly challenge their existing beliefs and become great critical thinkers opportunist or sensationalist especially public spere that's a very hard thing to solve because it depends on multiple factors a your financial position your family position everything is driven from that today the reality is that the way the content landscape is is because it's very easy for me to sit after spending a life of a successful entrepreneur or wrapping things up getting into content creation then I can follow whatever I want to do tomorrow if I want to talk about the most boring book on planet Earth I can because I don't care if thousand people view that I loved the idea I will do it because I still had that Baseline to fall back on the problem today is that India is still a country with less than $3,000 USD income that means barely any Indian per year but family income so that's a very poor country certain kind of content late Indian [Music] [Music] basically content basically extremities sell a lot in India h true that America Tim Ferris hard level Dan Carin hardcore history uh basically it's a market reality grow religiously just religious before somebody thinks I think I'm above all of this judge in fact I admire everybody who does does it because they have cracked the code fck let's talk about thinking I think because a lot of us are now exposed to more news per second than your generation is or was 100% what can we do better is that we we believe headlines more than we do the due diligence of doing primary research resarch experiment they wrote two paragraphs and the rest of the article was literal gibberish like and people shared that article that shows people don't go beyond the title most of the times and Beyond the first two paragraphs that's what I'm saying in this generation where opportunism sensationalism sells particularly around politics around the way our countries run around around our own identities around our cultural identity as Hindus around just critical thinking St loudness how does one become a skeptical brilliant critical thinker it's it's hard work you I I mean I [Music] announ not of course from your life that youve ganed sure it's come from lots of reading it's come from realizing that I can be wrong and that see initially nobody likes to be wrong it's very painful cognitively it's a h on once you learn how to deal with it R see you cannot go beyond your daily chores so to expect everyone to be a critical thinker is actually slightly unfair the hus lies on creators which has been my biggest grous in India it is a about creators it is a moral responsibility of creators to be critical thinkers it is our responsibility it is not aver I mean just think about it right so the responsibility lies on you as a Creator to go through the hard do the hard yards and then give them the most balanced view the problem is our creators are biased not the people the entire economic Creator system hinges on views which is the problem so how the discussion and I and I say this as someone who's very proud of what you have achieved right I how many times have I told you this offline but the point is that when will we we creators start caring for our listeners I don't say this in a condescending way or as an it's a moral responsibility right what I was trying to get at is then you realize the gaps in your knowledge when you try to address the gaps in your knowledge in your content you're considered a fool you're okay with being a fool no problem but then you realize that either you can be a full-time researcher or full-time Creator that's where the problem is I think you can do both now in my podcast for example and I'll give you answers for short things that kids can do sure don't worry I will come to that but I do want to put the owners first on the creators I don't want the creators to go scotf free which is why I'm talking I don't have a research assistant for my podcast mhm every single bit of research is done by me everything is well referenced everything is cited everything can be backed up everything that I say will be backed up if the evidence changes I will change my mind that's my way if you are a bigger podcaster you are a way bigger podcaster than I am you can have a team of researchers I don't I still do my research what is confirmation bias hindsight bias availability sh why do otherwise smart people believe weird things the Scout mindset by Julia galf political tribalism by Timothy Redmond books political tribalism by Timothy Redmond Scout mindset by Julia GF and why do otherwise smart people believe weird [Music] things you have to bring it in your own system the problem with people is they don't bring these things into their own system and I understand I'm a realist I know the system beats you at times it doesn't mean you can't do it you can still do it the point is are we willing to do it what do you think about one's duty as a conversationalist or a podcaster to the truth what do you think about what is your not star when you're doing your own podcasts no matter who gets hurt you should speak the truth and how do you know what you're saying is a truth you research it before so you think your podcasts or any podcast for that matter if they are in the conversational category should be an attempt to uncover the truth not necessarily it depends on the topic I mean if you are just having a casual podcast if you're a comedian who's doing just funny podcast then you don't need the truth you just at that point what is a norstar metric for example if the critical analysis comes in it's fine and good otherwise we're just having a good time I understand that but at what point does podcasting uh bleed into journalism because you know unlike the modern journalist journalism Dy the clear adance to truth serving the public podcasters are shying away from the responsibility they sh away from I'm not a journalist I'm just a comedian but are we actually journalists no but we are responsible citizens we have to be making sure that whatever we say resp I do a monologue I bring up screenshots I bring up citations [Music] correct mon they having The Best of Both Worlds you have to give citations of everything you say or you say it's your opinion yeah opinion opinion as a yeah problem every time I do a monologue everything is backed up by citations in the form of newspaper articles in the form of scientific papers in the form of social science research or book excerpts these are the four things that I do I make sure that I show those things on my monologue right smack bang or live monolog stre [Music] number one and like that a lot of times Indian content creators are pushing or passing the buck onto the audience because the economics align and they get more views now it becomes very convenient to slowly go into the same territory of propagandistic journalists and start running propaganda by YouTube has degenerated even faster than mainstream media journalist beat reporters investigative journalist substack wow unlike Lex Freedman this is why I applaud Western education hyperowl India secret cont creation so that scientific training has become a part of your life right that is I think what separates you from someone else who can just blindly say things you know so can they start like this if they're doing it is not sustainable inia and why should I lie why should I misguide young kids but it is very easy to say public the structure will be broken B the amount of editorial rigor I had to go through to just write that one article for print soall rightwing portals right orye op op they will make you grind you mainstream publication man they are ideal but they are better than the garbage that is being peddled on the internet one of my best friends still reads a newspaper every single day because he's like bro if you are a political junkie boss if you want to do political content and you don't read newspapers you are incapable of giving good political commentary because newspapers are the heart and soul of politics newspapers politics TT :00 is not news reports no Mr so and so why are you doing this that's not news man that's just two idiots shouting at each other on the TV I don't give a about it that's not news if you are a YouTuber who's into political news you should be reading news reports calling news reports creating a network of news reports and then collating the data and then presenting it polygamy polygamy polygamy Health something something I'm very sorry India poam highest Christian tribals Christian civil abute uh just just because a something enables something doesn't mean that it actually happens violence r content creators left and right are convinced I think both sides feed the tribal instincts of Their audience or both sides want Their audience to be tribal could be both right why do we only blame the audience I am not saying that the audience is not to be blamed what I am saying is very conveniently we only blame the audience is that the reason why off camera we've discussed you have turned on interview requests from anyone from Union ministers to MPS to dignified journalists to people people who are stars and would change the nature of your podcasting career you don't platform at all [Laughter] [Music] [Music] again [Laughter] for you're like the sub Swami of G it should be Baseline moral moral Center model it is very hard to make money in my model that's fine but I the reason I kept bringing this up is because you are the exception to the norm the norm is lies yes but landscape I don't [Music] know chief minister home minister f India is on a cusp of something beautiful we are rising as an economy we are a literal economic uh star in the otherwise dull global economy we are on a cusp and if we don't do something right and I think YouTube star half a million subscrib social responsibility as a content creator open publishing houses different publishing houses what is also very convenient is that you can figure out what big National event is happening you can figure out what kind of books are coming trending a lot of ways a lot of authors are like Trend jackers like oh but you see these books you're right you're right you read the writing I think it is a difficult step the friction of writing a book is is quite a lot freed m 8 hour marathon right message I told him I loved it plus everything Le style up you cannot do it if you cannot give your oppon opposing sides argument as well as your argument M you're a POA intellectual the biggest problem in the Indian discourse is the left cannot steal man the right the right cannot steal man the left that's the biggest problem of Indian discourse they just res a name call it and strawmanning each other they are not reading each other and people who don't read each other will always have a downstream effect on society then Society also thinks that's fine I read left wi books most of the time you know most of the time most of member of the right yes you're engaging with the other side yes I want to read left wing stuff so maybe this the fact that you've developed a high tolerance for the left by eing so much left I I want to know if they're coming up with new theoretical Frameworks what is the most exciting idea on the left right now that you really like I think the left the last exciting idea of the left was I think the concept of privilege I think privil is real they very good at identifying things in [Music] society what else what do you think what do you like about the left other than that uh um I think um they when they they say that pure lare capitalism cannot lift a society out in the short term so while in the short term you need some sort of redistribution ISM I think is a legitimate argument you you can't say n leare and let the chips fall wherever they fall you can't do that I think you do need some sort of a social structure a bit of this a bit of that otherwise Society so I think the left has a valid argument there what is something despise about the right completely despise what is like I think religious bigotry that is a thing in the right because the right is religious Western World the left is usually irreligious so that that is a huge problem um that I think is there or I think Indian right the lack of intellectualism yeah yeah yeah yeah hyperball emotion there are some great intellectuals I won't call them right-wing intellectuals but they have been accepted by the right because the left did not accept them like Vikram samat I don't think so he's rightwing he's just a historian the left should accept him but the left doesn't because he basically showed the most accurate version of sarer which the left did not so they hate him so he's called a right-wing historian but he's not a right-wing he's just a historian but I think Vikram s is a great great and I'm talking about Vikram the historian not Vikram my friend vikam is fantastic even chaa is doing great work I think chaa is good um then Anand ranganathan when he does his Science 2 minutes 30 seconds interest an is a dear friend so V har Gupta he does great work then you have uh some others also who are doing sanjie SEL is you know someone who paved the way for so many of us I disagree with many things Rajiv motra says but I still admire him a lot as a public intellectual Rajiv G book being different uh and many other books that he has written even the current book snakes in the ganga I think Rajiv motra G has done a lot of work that is worth admiring and minaki Jen again a historian because the left doesn't like her so she has been called a right-wing historian hisorical argumenty disservice content creators or broadcasters not him he's he's a physicist researcher but like I know many people who would call amra because Ami brings views I've read Ami's books I'm like godamn she's wor I know that's what I'm saying but because people see what sells on their side they bring them on versus engaging with the primary document yeah AB see why I mean you can ask am me why does she enjoy talking to me she knows that I've read the ram she's read the ram I've read the mahabat she read the m and obviously our friendship goes so long that it's it's she's like was such a funny IND I I think the other problem with this podcasting culture is India is that they look at it as a PR op for the guest completely no it is not where the interviewer is this submissive moderator type who does not deserve to have their own opinion or podcast is not an interview podcast is a conversation the biggest problem is people think that podcast point we disagree on that am's take on that is very different from mine but the point is that we can handle it as two friends I mean that's how grown-ups behave man that's how grown-ups are supposed to behave and this is what I think people are still not able to understand that podcasting here is not that I am Superior you're inferior just because I'm on your podcast no you are equal and you might know more things and likewise correct correct the extremes work extremes work huh correct yeah I think you know if they don't give me the respect I can't sit there and say you please give me respect that's that's different but other than that once you are in conversation I think I have a suspicion it's because India is very speak as equals I will respect you as a human being but I don't need to respect your views if I feel I disagree with you in my own way I will tell you why either you convince me or I will tell you and if you are offended too bad if you don't like talking to me don't talk to me but I'm a man who has lost his patience again podcasting culture inia numb MATC now they don't work anym I think this is a great time to start and scale a podcast but when you scale what is working now is the formula not the host not their life experience not their research the formula subject subject which is very sad because Indians are not gaining anything in the process just positive affirmations and I only have to be the guy who brings this news to people why am I the only [Music] guy unn both the left and the right thinks that we are unicorns we are uniquely evil or uniquely special special neither uniquely evil nor uniquely special and this is the problem with our content landscape both on the left and the right in India and until and unless both the left and right sits together in India irrespective of their differences and have certain rules of conduct that we have a responsibility towards our audiences also and if we don't live up to those standards I sorry Bas again IND why am I talking about this our why is our political discourse so muddled you know because I see the formula working all around me and tried my best to be diplomatic but after speaking to you today I am convinced Two Is Better Than One the formula follow huh it's not about the formula the formula the you know at least my own the things that have become hit they were never a part of the formula it's when we try to repeat the formula but the thing is this is what I learn and love about from you is that because you are political and you're critical thinker you think it is completely okay to call out your own site and call out BS in the cont creat world the Dynamics are such but I think if stupidity is promoted people should call it out it is incum upon usbe contat media politician or big corporate beliefs Cheng as content creators at least political content creat videos even people like Ben Chapo right right right rightt you cannot escape this I'm so glad RSS does not believe in defamation RSS I've spoken to very senior people in RSS problem so there is a clear knowledge Gap so I wanted to speak to you and I figure out what that is because look I'm not the most happy with with like what I see politically mostly now I realize because I don't know enough I read the headlines I see scroll through my Twitter I make up my mind and the most limic part of my brain and say and I stop I wish to stop doing that because it's corrupting me it's corrupting My Generation it's making us all fer for the media machine the first step you should do if you want to be a critical thinker is you cannot opine on everything under the sun stop op it's very hard to control critical thinker fake Dr G Su now he's very clearly a man of the left H I am very clearly a man of of the right he had come with this preconceived notion BP can you believe after the podcast was done and he will vouch for it on Twitter also he said he was so happy to interact with me he's like even when I disagree with you I love talking to you because you did not judge me where is this culture gone [Music] think now you know me for a while you don't ever it has something to do around inquiry yeah or something fun never like it's never it's very weird it's it's AE too much political news in politics you get depressed and lonely and sad no but you see people who are like biologically triggered with you Twitter with and I told you the incident off camera also right like I met all of these people of the media brass and they're all so jaded and unhappy yeah because they are consumed by narcissism I don't take myself seriously they are consumed by the idea that I am something I don't think like that you you know me I don't think like that like I am the same person online I am the same person offline correct I am combative online I am combative offline but in a nice way I'm not combative in a bad way like I'm having fun offline I'm having fun online the what I have realized is and I could be wrong this is my hypothesis nothing else I think a lot of these people don't have good friends in life first standard second standard third in fact the only request I made my friends with my friends was cont I have the same set of friends my life is same which is why I'm so grounded I'm very happy they [Music] don't lifestyle design yeah it's like when then people will put you on a pedestal yeah and then ask you those things and they treat me like how they treated me before I was just a textile businessman which is exactly what what I have realized with a lot of these people is their friends change because they did not have friends from the past their friends have changed or then then they are just chasing a new F and then each circle has a certain Prestige requirement a certain modulation of your behavior because you realize that you know but there's also an argument to be made about the evolution of a man right you can also evolve right same same old same old you can add new people but never delete the old people that's true that's true yes some become toxic you have to delete but you should always have people who you remember where you came from and if you don't remember where you came from you are not grounded because then what happens is you become lonely M I've seen a lot of star anchors are crazy lonely people really very lonely so what happens can I stand up for the YouTube community in this sense YouTube is so chilled yeah YouTubers aners YouTubers are way more influ influential than some star anchors YouTubers reach why do you think I admire Joan so much he's still the same person he's got changed I think it's also because you know YouTubers find their Fame in a room mostly if you're doing a podcast or even like making videos you're doing it from a room right where there is usually no one else and so that's how most of us start when you're an anchor you go to a newsroom [Music] left wing journalist YouTube yeah it's everyone is adapting but not everyone can do it because it's a very it's a different landscape all together it is but I think that is the good side of YouTube which is YouTube is a great I don't think I don't think so we would have to follow a very conventional linear journalistic track slog our asses in news rooms and and by lines and all of that in in journalistic rooms rise our way up to the ranks navigate company politics never be able to speak our own mind except for the Beats of the of the entire publication then and then show up at ungodly hours all the time to Pedal nonsense this is this is such such an important aspect freed to remind you again I think think because mainstream journalists are governed by journalistic [Music] standards but but when I made that and some time has passed I'm now thinking we need it far more than ever because otherwise we're just slave to the market forces we're actually we're actually in a lot of like everyone has capitalistic needs everyone's economic needs otherwise we're completely slave to what the market wants at all times so what is what is the what is then the role of the spirit of the Mind simple question what is the code of ethics a podcaster should follow simple you will hear views survey form what is the code of ethics of podcaster should follow main Med serious respons journalist up CL I have seen the worst think tanks as bad as bad papers data change change the data to meet the requirement h a think tank which is supposed to be the Paragon of academic Scholastics research excellence TS T [Music] exposed profess in World who's holding them accountable accountability culture yeah it's it's it's permeating culture but policy [Music] level it is very very serious problem you cannot bend the truth I met one of the top researchers I can't even tell the field that person is researching because that person told meity because they realize they don't want to be token to foreign policy analis simple foreign policy claims foreign policy is about making claims right China is going in this direction India is going in this direction America is going in this direction they make claims how many of think analyst forign policy def uked because think tanks actually don't fall under the label of news and media because they are the ones who over Overlook independent because they are the ones who influence policy imagine tanks consultancies NOS working with uh Institutes how can we enact a system where you're basically having a think tank or some sort of a uh statutory body or a surveillance something like that no you just have to again like I said you will have to create fact Checkers or people on YouTube who will read these papers and start debunking them go after TS yeah there are institutional responses to these things law correct manag I will say in my own little experience of dealing with one or two thing tanks there's something called Council for energy environment and water they do excellent work in urban Mobility but they're not nonpolitical dat St Society I want to see how either you categorize yourself completely as entertainment and take a stand that is why I think it's very weird because that's how the system is programmed the issue is because most of the creators sometimes even me in some of the episodes I make we fall under the bracket of infotainment yeah it is infotainment news infotainment 8 to 11 but that's that's the model Indians like drama everybody just wants drama and I don't know I guess Indian Society pain or trumatic stress disorder unated to this basically I don't know why to because he never really addressed him opposed him directly of hopefully because he knew that he was never going to be the come on I don't like the personality Trump policies I I have never been a trump fan I don't like him I just find him to be very repulsive as a person as a president I think he was very repulsive and he just cross all lines but then I don't like Biden either but but they didn't look like from appearances standpoint at least Trump was in command of what he was doing I mean Trump ke policies were very interesting he got Middle Eastern peace and a few things that he did were right but then man the way he is right his personality is very repulsive like if he was my prime minister I would be in depression because he's America [Music] I was just watching the news I grew up reading Trump books right because my dad like as a businessman he had his books how to get rich how to build your fortune of the deal or art of the deal I didn't have that book I had all the books following that and I actually read the books and some of the books have such great wisdom including things on Trump can say one chapter is called have an ego anyway so I saw him as a businessman all my life then I'm I just taken the first year admission even before College started before orientation my dad said breakfast he's like no he's going to be the president and he became one now these three liberal roommates they held me they accosted me and said why don't you care we are caring so much didn't go to college for weeks in depression it's I think what Trump represents know at least to people like me is that business cult of personality and simple language steals the day yeah it does I mean but I think I mean to each its own I I I don't again I want to be very clear his policies many of them I did not have a problem with h but his personality is just not me I mean I I can't handle it who's your favorite Statesman ever I'll I nendra Modi yeah really I think he's a good good personality I think a good Statesman like in America I used to like Canadian Prime Minister Steven Harper a lot okay he was a conservative prime minister before Justin Trudeau and heed to really admire Steven Harper a lot why is it there such a Resurgence of like the importance of the a post why is s junker s junker have the kind of cultish following he does I think he speaks well that's it yeah I mean that's about it I mean as far as the policymaking landscape is concerned I think India under Narendra Modi is way more centralized in terms of policymaking but uh I think the honorable minister is a great communicator and people don't remember he was a career long bureaucrat who worked in the foreign Ministry so he knows the tricks of the trade he knows how the the the things move there so I think he he's just a great communicator conventionally we haven't had foreign ministers who are parts of bureaucracy I mean I don't remember the exact numbers I'm sure there must have been people from the past but uh Mr J Shanker has spent a lot of time there what's the incentive for putting in members of the bureaucracy as politicians at Central po what does it achieve as opposed to putting someone who has say contested the field and won elections there is no reason sometimes you even have lateral entries in in bureaucracy people who come in the form of like from the corporate world State into the bureaucratic world and similarly Bureau rat sometimes they bring something good like I think with a prime minister like Narendra Modi right he's very comfortable working with bureaucrats he's just the way he is and some others are not so it depends it depends on the Prime Minister more than the cabinet is a reflection of the prime minister's personality this cabinet is a reflection of the personality of the Prime Minister of India who likes to control things I'm just being I like Modi but I'm not going to deny he likes to control things again Modi doesn't pay me so even if tomorrow they don't like what I have said here I don't care it's not like they run my life but I like Modi but I don't like this aspect of Narendra Modi it's very controlling but it is what it is I mean he's done great things for India nobody can deny that I mean yeah the left F but I mean rationally you should not that's the whole point but this this government is very clearly a reflection of how Mr Modi wants to run things before we end you've also mentioned the importance of critical thinking today YouTubers should come out of the perview of the ethics that journalism has led Itself by for many many years now or they should write what are their ethics what if I I suspect and there are no ethics I really believe that I really believe if you look deep inside you'll find there are no ethics yeah I agree with you there's going to be a void of Ethics yeah which is why I asked this question my question to every YouTuber is what is your ethical code through which you create content it's a very simple question what's I can give an answer for my ethical code I can I can write a five page essay on it where how I create my content these are the rules that I follow so the last thing that I want to ask you is this is perhaps like the thing that has been around for many many years the statement that yeah I don't care about politics I am apolitical there is no such thing as apolitical you can be indifferent to politics you cannot be a [Laughter] so basically then so it absolves responsibility to deal with what's happening in the country basically a society that has had so much pain so much poverty Indians are very politic on average voting percentage West onario one of the provinces of Canada last state election 33% voting mrae 65 70% Indians are not a political Indians are very political Indians vote they like to vote Indians are very political young Indians certain class instagr you don't have to vote to be political you can still have a political opinion it is ideal to vote but without voting also you can have a political opinion why my answer would be very simple politics has the most disproportionate effect on your life because policy happens from politics to say I am apolitical has to be the stupidest thing or the stupidest decision you'd make in your life because you are ignoring the one thing that affects your life the most you should be very careful about what's happening politically in the country you could be wrong in your opinions but you should always engage politically on that note podcast you will get a lot of clarity or before I wrap it up thanks for having me and I I want to say this on the record I'm so happy with your success I'm really proud of you thank you because I've seen you grow as a person as a content creator and I'm really proud of you and I say this with all seriously but I wanted to say this on the podcast on the record and I'm really happy and I wish that you grow even further in life thank you m and thank you for helping me see the way when sometimes I air here and there and uh I always look up to you but but I want to say one thing I think in this space it's already very isolating because you're sort of doing it on your own and everyone has different teams and different opinions to at least have a sounding board for what is complete BS at all times is a privilege that I have because I'm friends with you thank you very much thank you people can follow you on the chak podcast yeah um and see your numerous conversations and uh this Wasa on those cast see you all in the next episode take care bye-bye Sara J bye-bye

Channel: Dostcast

Views: 153,506

Keywords: vinamre kasanaa, dostcast, podcast, shaatir dostcast, hindi podcast, hindi interview, podcasting in india, indian podcast, podcast in india, carvaka podcast, carvaka dostcast, kushal mehra podcast, kushal mehra dostcast, kushal dostcast, kushal on hindutva, hindutva, hate, modi

Id: GDX6UqlVCc8

Length: 141min 35sec (8495 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 06 2024