Kejriwal in Tihar till April 15th. Is this action justified? | Dushyant Dave | Faye D'Souza

explain to us from your point of view do you believe that kajal's incarceration is Justified well let us first understand one thing and I think this is where the nation must know that like most of the Indians common man I'm also against corruption and I do not support corruption in any form by anyone be it by X Y or Zed any party but what is troublesome is this in case of uh this Delhi leaker case the timing the timing of the summons issued to Mr krial because the investigation started long back the and not ultimate his arrest is something which is really extraordinarily I would say uh you know painful it is extraordinarily shameful because this is a frontal attack on Democracy we are on the eve of the elections general elections and Mr K amadm party is a national party recognized by the election commission he has therefore a right to campaign for his party across the country the entire purpose of this arrest is very clear is to stop him from campaing Mr kajal's party has you know tied up with Congress and other you know India block parties and perhaps because of that this action has been taken so that's one thing the timing is disastrous secondly what is really troubles is this what Supreme Court said today Supreme Court should have said long back when you know Mr Manish sodia came to the court because the Judgment of Supreme Court which is really led to this you know this emancipation of enforcement directorate Judgment of 2022 in Madan mad something I forget is Vijay Madan ch's case delivered by Justice kilar who now is sitting pretty as loal of the country that judgment unfortunately is completely on wrong criminal jurisprudential principles because you know the entire criminal jurisprudence is based on two fundamental principles one presumed innocent and two burden of proof every accused is presumed to be innocent till he is proved to be guilty by the prosecution and the burden of proof is on the prosecution both these have been upset in pmla by this judgment which was delivered by the Supreme Court sadly I would say more than the enforcement directorate it is the Judiciary which according to me is singularly responsible for failing democracy in this country in this pmla cases and this is really saddening because judges who are supposed to uphold the Liberty judges who are supposed to know the law judges who are supposed to interpret the law reasonably have unfortunately you know created a Juris Prudence which has really created this Frank estine in you know enforcement directed now what is most important however bad that judgment is that judgment is predicated on one principle which everybody has singularly ignored in last one year whether it is in case of Sanjay Singh or Manish sodia and now in case of mrin qual or Kavita or everybody that judgment said absent existence of proceeds of crime as a foreset the authorities under the 2 2 act cannot step in or initiate prosecution now they have no proceeds of crime and yet they are you know proceeding on presumptions and the judges are accepting day in and day out be it the district judge be the high court with the Supreme Court that we are investigating Mr krial is not cooperating Mr X is not cooperating they are not supposed to cooperate and admit their guilt they have a right to remain silent that's acren you have to prove it you have no as judges of the Supreme Court today rightly said where are the proceeds of crime now if there are no proceeds of crime the Judgment says you cannot Ed cannot step in and cannot initiate prosecution so how is it that it is going on for last one and a half two years and who is therefore responsible the judges the judges had a constitutional Duty legal Duty moral duty to have stopped stemmed this in the bud and told told the Ed that you have no case bring proceeds of crime before us and we will proceed so I think what is really happening today is sad I I have no sympathy if Mr krial and his colleagues have indulged in some corruption they must be properly tried no difficulty about it I'm not here to support anybody but I certainly feel that what is happening today in the country Ed is randomly attacking people it's not just politicians it's even business Community people are being put behind back the judges have forgotten that bail is a you know right jail is an exception that principle is forgotten chief justice chandrai as you recall said few months ago at some seminar or some public platform that lower judici of judicial is afraid to give bail what about the Supreme Court what about the high court I mean they have a duty see when kajal came to Supreme Court under article 32 the Supreme Court is bound to have listened to him because it is a question of his fundamental right it's a question of his Liberty you cannot take away Liberty by virtue of article 21 of the Constitution except in accordance with law and law is what Supreme Court has declared in madanlal ch's case that Sans proceeds of crime you cannot step in Period now there is no connection that they are able to make and look at the way it is conducting you know ready is one of the accused ready is you know allowed to you know be granted bail with the connivance of the Ed he then turns approver and points the finger at Mr X and Y and Zed now he he gets a his you know father gets a a ticket on behalf of TDP who are partners of BJP to fight Lo SAA election what does this show that there was clearly a quit Proco between Ed and Mr Ed now is this what court is blind is Court mute spectator court is not supposed to protect democracy to the hilt is the court not required to ask pertinent questions to the ID that Mr ID why are you doing this what is there at this at this time why is it we will allow this man to go and campaign you have anything come back to us after July now this is where I I feel that really Judiciary has done more damage to civil liberties in this country to democracy in this country to free and fair election than Ed has done Ed is certainly guilty of targeting people wrongfully without authority of law but what judges have done is to my mind is really unforgivable Mr D I have more questions about Mr krial in a minute but you've also recently on a panel discussion said that certain political leaders are being arrested and they're being brought before specific judges uh who are sending the case to trial courts could you explain to us what you meant see what let us understand one thing corruption is a national phenomena it is it is really a greatest blot on our democracy we all know that there is corruption everywhere there is no state which is corruption free be it run by BJP be it run by opposition corruption starts from the level of surp punch till the highest levels in this country in Democratic setup we know that the Ed doesn't want to go after anybody else the Ed is only targeting the opposition leaders and opposition governments I'll give you example for example in respect of Alle sand mining you know and mafias by sand mining they have started investigations in jarand they've started investigation in Tamil Nadu but I can tell you that you just go to Google and you'll find that hundreds and hundreds of cases relating to Alle s mining mafias are p in in Gujarat in Maharashtra in utar Pradesh in harana and many other BJP States not one summon has gone to anybody so this clearly shows that Ed is being weaponized by the btia J party to destroy it opposition and therefore destroy the Democracy bring authoritarianism autocracy the judges have to be conscious about it and if judges are not conscious I must tell you I mean late Justice h Kanna who was the only man during emergency who stood up and told the government you know dissenting from majority including that of justice bhagwati and Senior Chandra that I will not allow citizens fundamental rights to be taken away even during emergency now that's what is required these judges are today you know accepting anything and everything that Ed stands up and tells them and tells them go to civil I mean Sessions Court go to High Court no I think the Supreme Court really is doing now what is therefore happening is that these matters for whatever reasons I don't know why there is a I mean there is a roster system in Supreme Court it is supposed to be computerized the computer is supposed to allocate matters now why is it that by and large the matters relating to opposition governments and opposition parties are being listed only before certain benches I will not name the judges everybody in the country knows but why is it that this is happening and these judges are taking an extraordinarily conservative View and dismissing those matters you know so it's something which really is ex extremely I would say disappointing that this is happening in the highest court of the country it shouldn't happen this is a court which is which claims that if we are the custodian of fundamental rights of the citizens we are here to protect the Liberties of citizens they shout on top of the in many judgments but but when it comes to actual you know implementation of that law declared by them the judges take a back step and say oh we will do it when it comes to BJP people we will not do it when it comes to opposition leaders I I I'll give you example mam Banner's nephew now I don't know what is going on between Mam banerji and BJP but what happened is shocking he was issued summons by the Ed he doesn't appear Ed comes to Supreme Court and Ed tells or he came to Supreme Court I don't know but before The Supreme Court Ed stands up and says oh elections are around the corner therefore we will not summon him till after the election the bench which generally is throwing everybody out opposition leader says yes yes you are right we will adj the matter to July and he will not be arrested or call someone till then in another case I was sitting in court a a small functionary of BJP came from Gujarat Baruch District I remember because I was sitting there and he was externed from Baruch because of certain illegal activities by the Gujarat BJP police and he challenged it in high court law camea to Supreme Court judges said you have no case we'll throw you out then the lawyer started shouting oh I'm a vice president of BJP I'm a president of BJP and elections are around the corner I have to campaign judges immediately said all right then we will issue notice make it return returnable on 10th of April what does this tell us it it is disappointing frankly it hurt hurts I have been a lawyer for 46 years but I have never seen I have never seen this kind of a selective approach on the part of the highest court of the country it doesn't you know this is a great institution and it is really supposed to protect it has done some remarkable work it has outstanding judges it has many outstanding judges who are doing remarkable job you know judges like justice abay justice nagaratna justice sudu dulia yeah there are you know justice sundr justice BNA there are many many outstanding judges in the Supreme Court Justice gai cindia judge judge Justice surakan chief justice himself from time to time is definitely giving excellent judgments many of times he has failed the country but this court comprising of good judges why is it that this you know kind of listing takes place why is it that chief justice is not conscious that what my colleagues are doing is not right they are not following the law declared by the Supreme Court for last 70 years I must therefore step in and make sure that the roster is properly constituted and they therefore do not these matters do not go to those judges who take an extraordinarily conservative approach or rather anti- opposition approach he has a duty as a master of roster he can't be a silent spectator so I personally feel that chief justice Chandra despite you know trying to do many good things including his Jud judgments in electoral Bond chandigar mayor election fact check notification I still feel that he has to walk much more and much strongly to ensure that Supreme Court is really the court which executive cannot take it for granted it's a court which will step in immediately when citizen complains that my fundamental rights are infringed that's the kind of a court we want we don't want a court which says oh your fundamental rights are infringed go before a Sessions Court and satisfy I mean that's really I would say it's disappointing and it hurts Mr D looking specifically at the krial case and the prevention of moneya laundering act under which these arrests have been made um the prevention of moneya laundering Act was brought in in 2002 and it was amended in 2018 effectively flipping on its head the idea that one is innocent until proven guilty the bail becomes that much harder uh do you would you say there's been precedence in the Supreme Court in the past that this this particular law is faulty needs to be looked at and needs to be changed and that is perhaps what's going to come up here the Judgment of Supreme Court in Vijay madal CH according to me lays down completely wrong jurisprudential principles it's a it's it's a it's a blot on Supreme Court and review applications have been filed I don't know why they are not being heard the judges wanted to hear it but they are not hearing it despite the fact that they are openly seeing that abuse is taking place left right and Center I can I can definitely tell you that abuse by officials of Ed I have come across cases as a lawyer as a lawyer and I have appeared in some which is really unacceptable I mean prime minister who promises us a very clean Administration right under his nose the Ed is misusing its power and prime minister doesn't know about it and doesn't want to act I don't believe that the prime minister is completely know of what is happening in the country so for a man like Mr Modi who really wants to do something good this does not augur well frankly as a as the most popular leader today in the country nobody is anywhere near him he is undoubtedly the most popular man as a polit politician he really must ensure that this country becomes strong to make this country strong its democracy must be strong its rule of law must be strong that requires that requires that a strong opposition is there in you know the country so that the opposition can check these kind of abuses by you know governmental authorities which sometimes Mr Prime Minister may miss he must make sure that the Judiciary remains fiercely independent rather than allow you know some 600 lawers to write a letter and you know indirectly attack independence of Judiciary so I I I find it very difficult to digest that prime minister who I definitely L feel you know wants I mean thinks good of India believes in good of India yet he allows this to go on that really is a contradiction in his personality and I am not able to Fathom why he's permitting that I mean even if you were to allow a strong opposition the opposition can together you know build this country create millions of jobs which are needed you know fight poverty fight the gap between rich and poor develop the country in the right way remove polarization all that the you know ruling party and opposition together can achieve 1.4 billion people need that they deserve that so on that not M Mr D let me present before you this now if we step back and look at the election that we're going into as the world's largest uh democracy uh you know the mother of democracy as our prime minister refers to U you know this country as the sitting Delhi chief minister is in jail the principal opposition party of Congress Finds Its accounts Frozen by the income tax department the election commission is facing questions about its independence and the manner in which its Commissioners are being Chosen One commissioner resigned abruptly and without explanation before the largest election in the country uh the government has given itself the authority to choose members of the election commission all of this is sort of drawing a shadow on the elections that we're having we've had questions right now by the United Nations who've asked whether our elections will be free and fair where the United States um and uh you know Germany's foreign office that have questioned whether or not we're really having a fair election do you think that these questions are baseless or is there basis to that no there is no doubt about the fact that elections are taking place uh you know in the midst of huge controversies which are going to really seriously I would say cast not just doubts cast Dark Shadows on the entire election process you know take for example the schedule which the election commission has fixed I don't know what kind of a schedule they fix like this on the one hand country is talking about holding one election for State elections and general elections on the other hand you have some six seven weeks of election process in Gujarat you have one day voting why do you have seven time seven you know days of voting in West Bengal or Maharashtra five times or some other opposition State five times why that is that schedule is to accommodate because who has today the maximum money to really go you know zip from one corner of the country to the other and the resources the BJP they can hire as many private jets as they can for their leaders helicopters the Prime Minister anyway in the name of security has got you know special Arrangements Mr Amit sha I'm sure is using BSF aircraft all the time so you know this kind of a schedule is extremely disad advantageous to the opposition and it is clearly aimed at making a favorable you know time gap for the ruling party that's one thing which is very Troublesome to my mind secondly section five of the amending act which you know BJP amended after supreme court judgment saying chief justice should be involved in the selection panel they said no we'll keep chief justice out instead we will have Minister chosen by prime minister so you have now a selection Committee of prime minister he's you know Min and opposition leader now what happens that they meet 200 names are selected and in two hours 200 names are supposed to have been waited now is it possible ever to wait you know 200 names in two hours even the most successful of the professional with great you know management background cannot do it and secondly section five of this amending act clearly says that you will only select those who have experience in management and conduct of Elections do these two election Commissioners who have been appointed have any experience at all they are merely some is officers naturally they'll be under control of the government the government this government does not choose any independent person anywhere be it C CAG be it loal be it any you know be any other agency or constitutional body you will find the government only is putting its own people CAG is from Gujarat and he has been working with Mr Modi for last 20 years so what do you get understand that the two who have been selected are close you know were working closely with the home Ministry this entire time as well absolutely no what I'm troubl troubling is this that firstly you take out the Chief Justice from the selection panel then you have this hurried process and thirdly you don't even see whether these two appointed have any management and conduct experience in elections if they have none they have no right to be there so you know the whole whole thing I personally feel that and you know this is what surprises me that on the one hand BJP says oh we are going to get 400 seats but on the other hand they are so nervous that they are not only trying to you know have have election process to their you know liking to their you know uh uh suitable to their you know uh uh program uh their functioning but they are taking every person who is Accused by them of doing wrongdoing of wrongo into their party giving them tickets now if you were so confident why would you do that that means that there is nervousness somewhere why would you take people who are facing charge under prevention of money laundering act or you know other CBI cases or many other cases why would you take them in your party and next day give them tickets so or that judge from Kolkata high court I mean Mr Modi the least of all Mr Modi who claims to be a Democrat should never have touched that judge you do not touch judges who resign and next day are given ticket by that's not done that's the most improper thing that btia J party has done but they can get away with it because they have the you know they have the raw power today in the country so all this certainly is I would say Troublesome and they didn't need it if they are so confident of winning election as they are telling the country again and again why in this why give an impression that you know you are adopting unfair means you don't need it prime minister doesn't need it prime minister has an image which he can carry himself single-handedly BJP is a rich party it is very organized party it has you know Booth management which is exceptional and all the entire opposition is virtually now you know without money without Booth management and you know in helter and Skelter yet this is happening so I mean I I don't know I I feel that somewhere prime minister is not being advised rightly by people around him and uh this is really a sad commentary and statements by United States Germany and United Nations are not really uh you know IR responsible statements no foreign government makes statements unless they are also concerned because we are world's largest democracy they want a real democracy in this country we don't want to go back to 1975 and have you know defect or emergency as Mrs Gandhi the declared we want you know we you know she had a djur today we have a defecto emergency we don't want that situation so everybody in the world is interested that India remains a very strong vibrant democracy which it has for last 77 years except two years period so I I think everything is uh there's something seriously I would say re uh remise on the part of top BJP leadership they need to really introspect and think in L ger interest of the country and I I sincerely hope and pray that prime minister sits back you know and reconsiders what is happening Mr D bringing your attention back to the krial case uh the enforcement director according to the Indian Express argued that he refused to hand over the password of his iPhone to the enforcement director so that they could look through it apparently they've asked Apple to do it Apple has denied unlocking saying that it's against the rights of their users uh and that is one of the reasons why the Ed has argued that Arin krial was not forthcoming during the questioning on the other hand the same Ed I want to I want to point out to our audience when Mr chagan bubal accused of corruption uh in Maharashtra switched parties and joined the NDA the Ed allegedly lost the files in their office and went to court and say we have no case against him we want to withdraw the case because we lost the files is the Ed here uh Mr D purely an arm for the government uh as as is being accused by opposition see there is no doubt I said so earlier that it is what he's doing is a great disservice to the government and prime minister Mr Modi and Mr Modi should realize that but on the other aspect on this you know refusal of Mr krial to give the his password I'll tell you many years ago there was a case of seli where the question before The Supreme Court was whether accus can be compulsorily administer light detector test Narco analysis test and brain mapping test to extract information from him and I was appointed amikas curri Friend of the Court by Chief Justice balakrishna and assisted every state was arguing including government of India solicitor general Mr vahan appeared every state and government of India wanted that we must have a right to compulsorily extract this information from the accused and I argued that if you do that the right to remain silence is so sacring it will be for all times to taken away you do that and we will go to you know those star Chambers where you know you could extract confessions and you know convict people we don't want that we are a democracy governed by rule of law we have Constitution we have constitutional principles we have a jurist Prudence which is beautiful and I succeeded in that case the Supreme Court said nothing doing nothing doing we will not allow it so and you know what did I cite there I cited Judgment of the Israeli Supreme Court Israeli Supreme Court said that we will not allow our security agencies to you know adopt third degree methods against Palestinian prisoners to extract information knowing full well judges said that we know that our nation's existence is at threat but we will not forget the basic human values which need to be protected by courts I cited that and judges were really you know taken in by that judgment and they said it's amazing because I said look Israel which faces threats of you know terrorism every day if their Supreme Court can take such a view why should you take a different view so I was happy that I succeeded so likewise Mr kajal has a right to say I won't give you it's my privacy why should I give you so you know it's these are you know the kind of abuses when these authorities come and take up a mobile lot of people have a lot of personal lives we don't want these officers to know about our personal lives why should it happen and judges should protect that right to privacy to the hill in in fact Mr D the Chief Justice of our Supreme Court when speaking at an event just recently in the last 24 hours has said that there needs to be a clear line between investigation and protecting the privacy of an individual is the Ed forgetting that line oh yes Ed CBI everybody is has forgotten judges themselves have forgotten it's all right for chief justice to say that in Supreme Court but Supreme Court is day in and day out you know refusing to follow this judgment in madal Chri is a classic example where they have you know shifted the burden on the accused and this pmla is being abused left right and Center thanks to supreme court judgment which has weaponized D it's not government alone which has done it it is the judges of the Supreme Court who have weaponized D and that really speaks very poorly about us is a democracy I also I have a couple of questions from our audience Mr D Dian says I have a follow-up question if yes five minutes if UPA and laws like pmla are being used like this and a sitting chief minister can't get bail then who am I as an ordinary citizen where are my rights it's a fair question I agree I I I must tell you one thing uh uh Mr questioner that we are certainly living in a country where fear has taken over and we are definitely unsure as to whether we will get any kind of justices firstly Justice is terribly delayed secondly Justice is more often than not denied and on wrong considerations on wrong principles so yes you know no nobody you are not safe I am not safe nobody is safe in this country today I cannot say with confidence today that if anything were to happen to me I will get Justice from my courts because I don't know what will happen so I mean it's a sad commentary on us rule of law is seriously I would say under Challenge and we need to as a nation debate it we W must bring it back on the pedestal where you know Justice becomes everybody must be sure that I since I have not committed any wrong I must get Justice that shity must be there that shity is missing because of the approach judicial approach in last especially in last 10 15 years 10 years right Mr D you've given me half an hour I've exhausted that half an hour so I want to thank you for your time I won't extend no I welcome thank you so much for speaking with us and I do hope we can talk again in the future let us let us let us let us salute our great democracy our great country India is one of the finest countries in the world and I would never live anywhere in the world even despite this atmosphere of Fe I love it so much and so let us pray that this country progresses and in right direction thank you very much with you Mr thank you very much good night to our viewers thank you for watching

Channel: Faye D'Souza

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Length: 31min 4sec (1864 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 02 2024