Katy Tur Talks With Chuck Todd About 'Unbelievable', Covering Donald Trump And More (Full) | MSNBC

this is terrifying you know this is intimidating will only get worse sorry I always have a phobia when I'm front of a live audience it's like my socks aren't we're gonna see way too many parts of anyway your ankles are I guess I should start it off with a tweet what was on my Twitter feed today the president United States nine o'clock this morning hmm fascinating to watch people writing books and major articles about me and yet they know nothing about me and have zero access take news I think this came I would say within minutes of your first interview on television about your book with our friends at Morning Joe I think it was right after the Today Show I'm sure he was talking about Hillary Clinton of course of course fascinating name who necessarily have access to his campaign do you think you know Donald Trump yes I do I think Donald Trump is somebody that's easy to get to know if you're given enough time to be in the same room as him or just to observe him for I don't know 510 days straight what's the first time you had a conversation with him oh god the first time I had a conversation with him was a full conversation was the day I sat down with him to do that interview back in that was it that first interview now I remember that day very vivid I know because you met me for coffee and you said hey listen he's gonna go after you and I said all right yeah little did we know but so your first conversation before the lights go on or when you're prepping what you make of him well the first thing he did was he sauntered in Donald Trump has a way of walking he just kind of glides in and the suits his uh the jacket flaps just kind of flap around him and he's got an entourage all the time and he sits down and the first thing he does he just his jacket and he looks at the camera and he wants to see what he looks like well first he wanted a photo with me that wasn't alright assume that I wanted to photo with him but hehe wanted to see how he looked so and that's normal I mean I everyone wants to see how they look in an interview I didn't really think much of that but the first way he really addressed me was he sat down he looked at me and he said you know my whole life has been a win don't you and I said oh ok how you respond to bad what are you supposed to say congratulations I guess that was the first time we had a talk but it was not the first time that I realized he knew who I was the first time that happened was the very first time I was in the same physical vicinity as him and that was July or June 30th 2015 it was the day that NBC assigned me to Donald Trump's campaign and I drove myself up to a New Hampshire to cover this rally he had and it was like a 200-person rally around a backyard pool not the donald trump rally that everybody got to know and I was standing there in the rain tweeting what he was saying and trying to figure out what exactly he was and how he fit into things and and what in the world I was doing there because I had no reason to be there and I heard my name Katy turn you're not paying attention to me and I looked up schoolteacher moment like you know Katy tur stop chewing gum pay attention was it left or it seemed that way and there was there was a kind of a smirk on his face and I remember just yelling out across the pool at him I'm tweeting what you're saying what she liked and then he moved on to the conversation that first so he announces and the president of NBC News at the Times a woman by the name of Deborah Chernus and she comes to you I remember a conversation she and I had about the idea of you covering Donald Trump and I remember the conversation we're concluded well look well we don't know maybe she'll be into it maybe she won't maybe it'll work maybe a candidate for very long so let's give it a shot [Laughter] we're still waiting for see how long he's gonna be a candidate what did you think when she called you up about this I got a heads up I have sources within the building nice work you should know it in fact if you didn't know in advance then you weren't qualified for the job exactly exactly so I got a call I was heading into a doctor's appointment because I was home on huh I was there for home leave I lived in London it was the first time I'd come home in nine months just moved to I just moved to London I was starting what was supposed to be this overseas adventure this glamorous adventure where I got to travel the world and really live what was my dream job and my dream life and I I purposefully didn't come back to New York for nine months so that I could really feel at home there and I wouldn't miss my old life so I finally come back and I I'm going to this doctor's appointment and I get a call from my source who says heads up Deborah turn this is gonna sign you to the Trump campaign we're just really says it really fast and I said I'm sorry what assigned me to what and he said you know you better figure out what you want to do verdes gonna call you Verdes one of our bosses and verdes the kind of person that you you want to have an answer when he calls otherwise you'll find yourself in an uncomfortable position and so I I paced around I called a friend of mine who was an embed on the romney campaign in 2012 and i I told him what they were proposing and he just laughed and he laughed and he kept on laughing and then finally when he stopped laughing he said yeah it'll be short did you fear you were being set up did that ever chrome go in the back of your mind no not that I was set up I do I you know I had a conversation with one of my old my old news directors today and he was congratulating me in the book and he said do you remember coming to see me to talk about your you know this decision what you were doing and just bursting out in tears and saying they don't take me seriously and and I didn't remember that I currently wipe that from my memory but I remember feeling like well you know is this is this a good idea for my career is this if they really thought that I could do this you know what they assigned me a candidate had that had more staying power but I mean that's because I listen I'm not I wasn't a political person I wasn't a political correspondent I hadn't lived in Washington did you ever think about saying no I did yeah how close were you saying now I was I was close I was really on the fence I had a Sicilian vacation lined up a few days before this happened with a lovely French boyfriend that I had I was really living my life you are describing you know our business we hear the legends of the foreign correspondents and they're all like that they all have the boyfriend or girlfriend somewhere in another part of Europe yeah and then friends all over the world fantastic I mean you go to you go to some truly addicted to it though but he's addicted because you just you you get to see everything you get to meet a ton of people it it's just it's a wonderful romantic experience it is that it's a dream job so I thought about saying no but then again I said you know it won't be that long so you've been on this sabbatical from your previous job no did you ever think you were gonna write a book about this experience I mean did you decide to start chronically I'm gonna blame Peter Alexander for this because early on in the campaign when Donald Trump kept making news and just wouldn't say that the headlines he said to me you know you really should take notes everyone told me when I got in the campaign trail the way everybody says this to everyone every friend whenever you get on a campaign White House whatever take notes take notes take notes take notes take notes and I remember hearing the advice and thinking yeah you know I should and I took some notes early on like that and then I I put it out of my head because this was all-consuming and and the idea of writing a book about it just seemed far-fetched but around the winter late winter early spring of 2016 I thought about it more seriously because it was so unbelievable that it felt like you need to somebody need a good title for a book yeah it's great needed to write it down and not to do a big political analysis of you know what it really means for America but more just to document the day to day insanity that was this campaign just so I mean insanity in terms of travel in terms of you know not knowing where you were going not knowing what would happen the next day the campaign was difficult the candidate was was unpredictable more predictable and its unpredictability it just felt like something that if you didn't write it down nobody would believe it did you did you ever say hmm I shouldn't write this book yet I should wait yes and then why why now that's either Putin or Trump I don't know one of the ceilings gonna rip open and we're gonna get struck down by lightning I think what we are in danger of doing today we were we did last year which was discount what happened and discount the political devotion that Donald Trump's supporters had and still do have and misunderstand once again why he resonated the way he did and I think this book is a really good reminder when someone comes along and says oh you know what he has just gone too far and people are going are galvanized in a way they weren't before and there's no way he can get reelected and we'll just just broad brush discounts everything everybody that that supported him I think it's a good reminder hey remember all of the things that happened I'm sure you can't remember a good portion of them he went after the Pope I forgot about that sort of writing they may do it again um he might do it again and and Moneda de be put down in writing that this was something unlike anyone had ever seen and it was something that it's it that's that is important to try to understand what do you want them to get out of the book what do you want them to are they learning about Donald Trump the individual are they learning about what it's like to be a network correspondent what it's like to be a member of the media in this polarized age what is the what are the lessons you're hoping or they or the wisdom you're trying to share with I think it's all of the above you're gonna get everything in in this book this is not again it's not political analysis is not a deep dive into you know the makings of Donald Trump we get that every single day in a really well done way from the Washington Post the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal and NBC News and CBS and ABC and everybody in CNN this is not that book this is this is a book that shows you what it is like for a journalist to face down somebody who is attacking the Fourth Estate attacking the institution what I think is one of the most important institutions in our country we hold power accountable without us it would just be propaganda it's important but then also I think part of the problem we face Chuck is that people don't know us any longer they don't interact with us they don't see us as regular human beings people with lives back home people who struggle to zip up their pants sometimes because they've eaten too much road food just you know the everyday the mundane aspects of life that that can be quite entertaining when you're living out of a suitcase you ever resonate with you yeah you think no he did he absolutely did Donald Trump I see what he's I see what he's getting out there I absolutely he totally did and I talked about this in the very beginning of the book I do get it I mean you you can't send your kid to school with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich because someone has a peanut butter allergy you can't tell a off-color joke or a joke because you're worried you are going to get fired the idea that patriotism sometimes gets labeled racism or xenophobia we went to towns and we saw Main streets that were if not boarded up just very empty and desolate big box corporations have taken over there aren't kids riding their bikes around town there aren't young families there are people there just places that didn't seem as vibrant as we remembered America to be and I think people who looked around and they saw that and they felt like they were screaming at the top of their lungs in a room full of people wearing earplugs looked at Donald Trump and said what do I have to lose he used to say that what do you have to lose he would sit there he would he would say that let's talk about the first time you talk about that first rally in New Hampshire was not like the rallies we've all come to know and fear sorry I mean I I the that climate you know I parachuted in I didn't have to do I got to parachute in to do the backstage at interview or the backstage this yeah I remember one time he said why don't you come out first of all god only knows what he'll say about you in the interview no that's like you don't want to be a spectacle have an idea me too what was this first time when you felt him move the crowd against the media where you saw that feeling and perhaps is it was when they put the media physically in the middle of the rally that was in Grand Rapids when did that first start let's start with that when they were the first time that the Trump campaign decided to make the media pen almost like the centerpiece of the audience I don't know when the exact first time was because we were always somewhat in the center if not you know usually in the back to the back but these were really large places we were in Grand Rapids Michigan though and this is the time way I think I felt it most acutely other than the Muslim band day we can get into that but Grand Rapids Michigan this was December of 2015 we are and I I think it's like an 8,000 person arena sports arena and the the press pen it's a couple days before Christmas the press pen is in the the middle of the arena on the floor there's probably 30 to 50 maybe of us in the media surrounded by bicycle racks and the rest of the place is filled with Donald Trump supporters up in the rafters and everything you are literally surrounded it's like a Roman Colosseum as I as I write in the book and Donald Trump is up on stage and this is around the time that Putin called him he thought he called him a genius he really called him something more akin to colorful his stable mate his stable made on him in any minute they've all made stable mate which makes a sense I don't know I don't know what it means either maybe neither so a couple days before you know he's he's praising Putin and he's on with our colleague Joe Scarborough and scarborough's is you know he sounds like he's called in from his bed maybe he was doing that I don't know but that's what it sounded like what we've all assumed what's what we've all assumed the phone er served from me yeah or you know sitting around the breakfast table with melania who knows and Joe Scarborough said this is a man who who kills his political opponents political dissidents turn up mysteriously dead journalists turn up mysteriously dead in Russia I covered some of those stories when I was overseas for that short time I was there I mean I know the stories of journalists who dared to question the Putin regime getting shot in the head point-blank in the elevator of their own apartment building it gives me chills just talking about it it is terrifying and Donald Trump waved it off you know we do a lot of bad things too so this is the climate and then he gets on stage a couple days later and he brings up Putin because the media had obviously been talking about this and he says great ratings yeah he says something like you know they think that I would kill journalists I wouldn't kill journalists but then he like pauses for dramatic effect and does this a bit of a wink maybe I would I hate them no I wouldn't kill them and the entire place is roaring they're booing at us were they're laughing at him and maybe the vast majority of those people knew he was really joking and saw it as one big act but it only takes one person to not take it that way and to take it a step further and to feel like part of their problems or because we are against him to climb those bicycle racks maybe they're not going to do it while a Secret Service is in the room but once he leaves they leave they leave and suddenly the press is all alone and it's scary and we are far outnumbered I remember I got on the exchange the morning call that NBC News has that next morning and I I gotta tell you guys I was terrified do you think we listened well enough to you and I say this and I say we I'm speaking for the collective of NBC because I've been thinking about this a lot while reading your book and obviously how we covered the premise candidate Trump and I say we the collective we hear not one individual network but the collective we we've all gotten a lot of criticisms to rally focused to there's a lot of that but do you think we fully we in New York and Washington fully appreciated what was happening in these rallies at the time and when do you finally think we got the message I think at first no and because I think it reads very different on television than it does when you're in the room it just does and then and that went both ways one it sometimes looked more serious in the room than it did when you were I remember there be times we'd all panic you know Andrea's in the room and Andrea be like we got to do something about this and Katie would say it's okay there are times where he was very clearly joking there was a time when we were outside of DC and he there was a baby crying and he said get the baby out it was very clearly a joke but on TV it didn't necessarily read that way and it would you know lit up like wildfire on the on the other side sometimes the room felt much more threatening than it did on television NBC figured it out and so did all the other networks when they should have and a lot of us had security on the campaign trail which is I guess extraordinarily unusual it's beyond extraordinarily unusual I mean this is not Secret Service putting an extra agent on the press pad this was news organizations hiring separate security car armed security guards these were former Secret Service agents who would come with us wherever we went and we got to know them really well they're all incredible guys and some and some women as well and they would stand outside of the rallies with us and just keep an eye on things they would stand outside of Trump Tower with us I mean if any of you happened to walk by Trump Tower and say had anyone the media while we were standing out there a lot and you felt like some guy was trying to push you away it was one of our security members because there was a real concern and remember put this into into context to journalists in Virginia were murdered on live TV live television yep about that long ago a year and a half two years ago don't know to be a weird lover's quarrel but still it could have been we don't know what that was still we don't know and so is it was a really scary time would be so he'd single you out at one of these the first time he did it what was the social media reaction I mean he did it so many times before anyone paid any attention but the first time that people actually I think noticed it was really notice it was the Muslim band a well I mean he would tweet and they would notice it on Twitter Muslim band day oh there was my birthday definite Linzer she's in here and she'll laugh at this my birthday I'm 2015 I was at a I was at a trump rally in New Hampshire and he called me terrible and and it was a great birthday present anyway did somebody inform him it was I don't think I don't think anyone told him it was my birthday or maybe they did and that's why he did it who knows he didn't like the poll numbers that I reported about ben Carson as if I control the poll numbers anyway but the Muslim band day this was December sorry I have all these dates in my head it's it's a it's probably I sound like Rain Man to get a good cut oh right that's yeah exactly December 7th 2015 this is Pearl Harbor Day yeah what better days a dude my what better day to do the Muslim ban and a Pearl Harbor Day and it was it was actually just a day that just seemed very a little dull President Obama gave a speech the day before about terrorism San Bernardino had just happened a few days earlier and he was addressing the country and Donald Trump I guess wanted to come out much in just the opposite fashion of President Obama really hard line so he catches all of us off-guard by announcing in an email blast that he would ban all Muslims from coming in the country and we had little colored behind-the-scenes near in Charleston South Carolina you try to eat as much food as you can because that is the culinary capital of this country and we had just Ally Batali and Anthony Terrell my producer and I had just stuffed our faces at a great lunch place and we went back to our hotel to to I smile when I talk about this because I love the food it's the best part of the whole trail they went back to the hotel - you got an accident by the way just a quick aside that the longtime chief political right of the New York Times was also one of their best food critics the later you go the late Johnny Apple trust is when you're all around the road you know you know learning the local that's what that's what you want and you certainly think you know what you're talking about better than most food critics but anyway you ever need a recommendation in Charleston let me know anyway so we went back to the hotel to get a jacket it was a rainy miserable day and so Pam Deb who I think might be here was there he's a CBS em bed he was really great at the tweeting the whatever Donald Trump said whenever he said it was sitting on his computer and he gets this email blast before Ally Batali and I do and he just like his face just drops he looked like a cartoon and he like starts laughing awkwardly what's going on he said oh you'll get it in six seconds so Hallie vitaliy and I are aggressively refreshing our email oh my and then it pops up and it's it's it is this unexplainable statement how do you explain what he is trying to do he and it was so broad a total and complete shutdown phrase total and complete shutdown of all Muslims entering this country it was so broad there was no detail the campaign couldn't answer whether or not that meant Muslim soldiers who were deployed overseas Muslim athletes who were competing overseas Muslim citizens who might be visiting family overseas did that mean he was also going to deport Muslims nobody understood it this long story to get to a short answer so we go to the rally and this is in the belly of a of a old W world war two worship and it's right outside of Charleston South Carolina a bunch of vets we go up and down the line alley Batali does interviews with everybody up and down the line and tries to find anyone who might think that maybe this isn't a good idea and the most that she could find in that immediate reaction was this before he took the stage was I've got to think about it the rest of them said this was a great idea some went further and an Iraq war vet said it is an insult to all of those I served with to have any of them in this country a better idea would be to ship them all back so that was what it was like and you know San Bernardino had just happened Donald Trump was was basically saying President Obama wasn't keeping you safe he wasn't vetting people coming into this country and the media is essentially complicit in this because we're not reporting the truth what he saw is the truth and so they're angry and they feel scared and they feel threatened and and who is the proxy meanwhile two random people as far as the president's concerned just tried to shoot up people in San Bernardino yeah I mean let's keep reminding like this is the climate in the atmosphere and the concern yeah and the proxy for all of that anger directed at I mean the proxy for the establishment for the Obama administration is this group of reporters who are pressed up in this in this press pen which is smaller than usual and it's this place is more crowded than usual we're slammed up against the wall but we're still in the middle of the room we're surrounded on all sides there's really no way to get out and Donald Trump takes the stage and he takes a long route to get into the Muslim ban talks about his poll numbers well she started with no matter the occasion and you know he was angry at me about a tweet tweet I sent a couple days earlier may have been at the time in the campaign you sexually called me to complain about your tweets oh did he yeah I remember when when we would get some of his minions that would do that too if they weren't satisfied with complaining to you they complain them yeah they would hope Hicks would email me and say mr. Trump thinks your tweets are disgraceful not nice that's what I wanted to title the book actually not nice but um I got overruled unbelievable is a lot better and she sent me a email a couple days before and said that and he sent off these tweets saying that I should get fired so friend dev as well and I mean the waves of insults you you know what it's like when Donald Trump tweets you when Donald Trump's tweets you it's like he awakens this it unleashes I guess what I'm trying to get out here and try to get you to share here cuz it's very hard to share sometimes it unleashes some demons you get I get darkest we're saying things to me that I didn't know that would people would say in the English language yeah I mean saying things that I just I couldn't believe but also threatening my life there was a guy who there's one in particular that I'm thinking of you know we should kill them all let's start with Katy tur oh wait I heard people gasp that wasn't the first time you got a death threat how many death threats I don't know right you've run out of you can't keep track of how many how many have you gotten but that's the thing in this right now in this era I don't have a hard number I'm guessing you don't have a hard number either and you couldn't possibly have one because you couldn't scroll through the messages you get and I mean our people would send things to my office that were questionable somebody said sent me a dozen roses which maybe was nice I don't know it but there was the card was there will be a day no idea what that means it terrified me yeah so it unleashes this anger so I was already feeling it and I was keeping a low profile that day because I I just felt like after he called me out I don't really want to I don't want to be the most visible person out there and so I sat down on the press riser to I don't know I don't want say hide but just keep a low profile right and I'm taking notes and the theme and then I heard my name and he's saying little Katie she's back there not just Katie tours a liar Katie she's back there pointed at me and the whole the whole place was was just alive with anger men were standing on their chairs just yelling at me and one woman booing I saw one woman to my to my left an older woman and she just looked horrified on my behalf my phone again starts buzzing buzzing buzzing buzzing buzzing but you know what do you do what do you do in that situation you put it aside you don't run out there you know screaming I'm scared that's what that's not gonna help you so I smiled and I waved and I just got on with it and then he announced the Muslim ban I did a couple hits for Chris Matthews and then Chris Hayes and then a you know the room started to empty and one of Trump staffers shoot away people that were lingering around the press pen and then pointed out said these two guys are gonna walk you to your car and it was two Secret Service agents just Trump staffers it's one Trump step what were was actually worried about your safety yeah I don't know if this extended to anybody else since your campaign but this one per there was some awareness somewhere in the campaign that oh this may have gone too far yeah how often after that moment how often did we did you notice Secret Service lingering more around the press penalty they were they were I don't know if they posted an extra person they might have always felt like they did it felt like there was increased you know it did it felt like there was an increased security around the press pen it died down after that a little bit it got a little less aggressive and in-your-face but you know in the middle of the primaries and then certainly during the general election it got really tough again it got really angry and there were points when people would the media would walk into these rallies these ten thousand person rallies and this was when we would all come in together because there was a press plane and everybody arrived together they would see it they would see us all yeah and they would scream drop dead media or CNN sucks yeah friends at CNN took the brunt yeah they really did and in many ways but they kept doing their jobs which is exactly what you do how did you compartmentalize I don't know I I grew up in the family that covered the news for a living my my parents were we're helicopter journalists and they did some pretty serious journalism basically we're trying to do journalism and fly helicopter yeah I would say that you've got to have a steady my mom was getting my mom would hang never gets any credit and I feel bad because because my dad is this larger-than-life personality and he was the voice and he was just so he was really good at live reporting but my mom would literally they're both amazing my mom would literally hang out of the helicopter she was that journalist I was like what like hold on and like abacus harness is yellow harness and her their major harness that you attach to the helicopter and she'd hang out helicopters kids would be here and there would just be a freefall and she had a beta cam on her shoulder it was like a 50-pound beta can something like that when did you notice that your parents were risking their lives every day I didn't I didn't until I was in adults because it just seemed so normal I didn't did I did not until I was adults cuz that's just what they did but anyway they covered the out big LA riots and this was the the beating of Reginald Denny they were they were the ones that caught this on camera that guy that got pulled from the red gravel truck and beaten to with an inch within an inch of his life by gang members in Los Angeles and the police were just gone the police had abandoned the city and they were they were shooting at the helicopter they were they found bullet damage my parents say they found bullet damage and the engine blades which could have taken that thing down my mom says she found bullet damage in the in the battery beneath her seat there was a battery underneath her seat it's hard to even comprehend now but anyway after that they got a lot of death now you're thinking geez and Donald Trump Lane there was no bullets yeah yeah they got death threats so just it seems like that was that was what you do when you're a journalist you deal with this stuff to get the story how would you tell people you kept your impartiality I decide I just don't you don't think about it every day you think about every day how would you get out of bed just suicide it's easy to say but it is hard part of it was just the sheer exhaustion of running around there's some time to think about anything else and he is constantly making news there's stories that are breaking every day Maggie Haberman 'he's got a scoop every four seconds for trying to keep up with her it's almost impossible I don't think she sleeps I thought I thought about starting a hashtag go to sleep Maggie because I would go to sleep and I slept like I slept like four hours a night I would go to sleep and she would be tweeting I would wake know what that meant Hey reporting this what do you got Katie she's an incredible woman also the child of another journalist exactly we were sick people and we just breed other journalists read to be journalists anyway so you just you had so much to do every day you had so much to do and that you just you couldn't think about it how much do you think your gender played a role in the meanness that candidate Trump leveled at you I have a look and you mentioned the soap and ebbs in the room which i think is something it's not like he didn't spare male journalists no he called Tommy ah mrs. sleaze that's right but the den I'm sorry I could see it here is where ABC now instead of NBC I'm kidding tom I'm kidding Donna no he was an embed for NBC so you know ABC has to hire their best journalists from NBC we were very competitive but it does seem different in how he treats women journalists he goes after everybody you could say that he uses different words for women journalists he goes after women journalists a little bit more relentlessly you could argue that his supporters certainly treat women a little bit differently talk about that I don't think that any male journalist was called the cont both on Twitter and in real life I don't think any of my male counterparts got called the bimbo I don't think they got cut down in the same way that that I that I got cut down by the supporters by the online harassment but that's I mean that's nothing new I mean when women in any field are cut down in different ways than this election felt different because we had the first booth the possibility of electing the first woman president and that's what's so fascinating add to this weird vibe fascinating about Donald Trump I'll answer that question second about Donald Trump instead of doing what any other candidate might do which is be somewhat careful or deferential to this idea that he's running after a woman he just I mean he does this with everything you can criticize him for he runs right into it he runs the controversy if there's a mean he's like a moth to flame yeah I'm running against a woman she's only here because she's a woman he says exactly the thing that you would never say and and it works for him it worked for him no I mean it is I do you feel as if the fact that there was a it was a campaign between a woman nominee that the criticism was even harder on you know potentially you feel that or you don't know I don't know because I haven't covered another political campaign so I don't have anything to measure it against by the way I don't know how we're gonna get you to cover a conventional campaign I mean you know they're not like this they're really not I just have a nice relationship with people I mean a tough relationship certainly to report the truth but a cordial one can call them and not get berated be nice the phone calls answered great let me ask it this way what would you tell 25 year-old Katy tur about becoming a network correspondent I would say covering Donald Trump so you're not gonna believe this I would say number of things you're not gonna believe this but in 2015 you're gonna find yourself sitting on a set with Chuck Todd talking about an interview you did with Donald Trump who's running for president and then getting complimented by Andrea Mitchell no I would have never I would have laughed in my face but I think my 25 year old self would be really proud and excited to become my 33 year old self it's amazing you're only 33 you have a candidate that you're covering that is whipping up crowds against the press at the same time part of your job is not to cover the candidate just the candidate part of your job is to also cover the people yeah that is appealing to him how much harder was it to have those conversations you're doing the you're doing you know the voter conversations that you want to have like what is it what motivated you come here I can't believe you stood in line three hours it's like 22 below zero here what did you do this did it make those conversations harder that these people want to talk to you more talk to you less it was some wanted to talk to me less somebody some would say that big questions believed I was just very biased and they didn't think it was worth talking to me others would say I saw you with Chris Matthews can I have a selfie let's talk which actually happened quite a bit I was surprised and others were were just really open to explaining why they did support him I found it yes certainly yeah days were some days were harder than others but on the whole it was really fascinating to hear what they saw in him and why they believed in him and to try and understand the phenomena I I don't think anybody really understands what happened in 2016 I think if anybody comes you says here's here's here's how it all went down and here's why Donald Trump was elected you know there I've got a bridge like I can tell you yeah sure I don't think anyone really or a tower that I can lend my name to for you to bail I don't think anyone really fully understands it and I think it will take a lot of time for us to really comprehend the full picture of it but I will say this it was it was fascinating to find out why they were angry and why they believe frustrated ignored whatever why they believe that Donald Trump was the person that would change things why they related to Donald Trump that's always been the question I get how is it that a New York City Fifth Avenue Manhattanite billionaire he's their working class billionaire is is somehow the man of the people of the working class people how did what would they say to you what were the standard responses because we'd all asked them these questions he understands me he sees me he's talking about what I want him to talk about he sounds like me he's not afraid he says what I can't never says that was my least favorite he says what I can't he never backs down he never backs down I love to see you guys squirm the media all politicians are liars Donald Trump has flaws but at least he's not a liar they would say that they would say that some some said it was less of a straight face right but it is also important to remember that it's not like we had the media had some magic bullet some silver bullet if we said the right thing the right time enough that Donald Trump supporters would be convinced not to vote for him that's that's a that's a that's a ludicrous idea we we were to tell people how to vote no we're not gonna people forget this about journalists you weren't out there to tell anybody how to vote no I'm not there to convince anybody to vote a certain way I'm there to and you're there and journalists are there to tell you what is happening and what we see and to in context and to hold them accountable for the things they say to talk about the policy they may or may not have what didn't we see in time what didn't we see about the Trump phenomenon they you saw and if you could travel back in time and pound it in our head see this was the moment this is what I was seeing guys they made their decision early way before any of us expected them to he went after John McCain John McCain is an American war hero regardless you don't go after abets you don't want to after people who served in the military Republican primary in Iowa you know like I mean I hate the state of all places the heart bed of the heart this is when you say the heartland of America Iowa's the first thing you think of sorry Illinois yeah and he did I was a senior member of the Republican National Committee right after this happened and and the person was just you know hammering in my head this will never stand American voters will never accept this he is done is this a member of the RNC that became Paul White House press secretary because that guy also told me that Hillary Clinton's gonna win 350 electoral votes the day before the election so anyway I don't my favourite anecdote on that one they did not think they were gonna win when did you know he could win when he did that when he did that his poll numbers went up I just didn't anything yeah but I mean I listen I wasn't listening to myself of that back then what the heck did I know what the heck did I know I turned on the television and everybody who has done this for longer than I have who is much smarter than me was saying this could never happen so I believed I believed what I was hearing on television first mistake big news but I think we should have paid a lot more attention back in in December and back in January certainly South Carolina when we saw the exit polls out of South Carolina that said people had made up their vote made up their minds a long time ago didn't matter what he said after that what um I'm gonna get to your questions but what what's this most redeeming quality he is charming and he can't be very nice he can't be very fun to talk to privately though just not in public privately sometimes in public he'll be nice I mean he's not I don't think he won on what he wants to be liked he really does want to be liked and when he isn't liked his I'm not a psychiatrist I don't want to get into it but like really you know I when he was with you when he's with you one-on-one he just wants to have a conversation usually about his poll numbers and how much he can whether or not it's gonna win but he's not attacking you to your face and telling you you're a liar and you're terrible and disgraceful you're only that after you don't do what he wants you to do yes and not not to your face ever one-on-one was that a camera present first question here from Facebook Casey stone asked the following it's actually similar to a question I was gonna ask you from the book I teach middle school where some of your influences and how can we drive young let's see here who I teach middle school I'm sorry who were some of your influences and how can we drive young women towards success oh gosh some of my influences I might sound like I've got tunnel vision my parents were my biggest influences my parents and my grandmother my family in general my parents were are remarkable people they did remarkable things in journalism was her ever question about you going into journal oh I hated I did not want to do it no there's no way in hell there was no way in hell my dad put a camera in my face and I would run in the opposite direction I hated it all right when did that sway flip I was gonna be a doctor I was gonna be a lawyer but I got weeded out in chemistry I'm terrible math I was a philosophy major in college thinking that I could use it to take the LSAT and I was sitting in the counselor's office one day and they're like well this is what you need to get into UCLA and it's this much schooling and I was like oh god no I've done and I was i I was the story goes I was I was coming back to UCSB from Los Angeles with my college boyfriend at the time and there's a fire in Malibu and my dad had made me this he had always made me press passes it was like silly ones and I was a kid but when I got older he made he took my grandmother's my grandmother's in the business my grandmother's press pass she had passed away but he just years earlier he pasted my picture over hers it was Judy tur he pasted my picture for hers and just left the Y in her name and then real Ammon ate it in LA Sherriff's Press Pass and anyway I used it it's probably not a good idea to do that don't do that I think it's a felony sheriff's office yet state law anyway I got into a fire and I was I just was hooked I thought what am i doing i won I wanted to see the world I want to chase news I want to be the center of the action you write this in your book and I want you to expand on it we really have to start teaching journalism in elementary school people don't even understand the basics of what we do anymore what do you mean by that I don't think we teach journalism early enough I don't think we I think people need to journalism is it civics what is it I think it's civics I think it's how does how does democracy work number one number two for the history of democracy in the history of the press would be would be great awesome poll numbers today 26 percent of the country can name all three branches of government Oh 33 percent couldn't name any of them and then either one or two yeah so yes civics there yes but also the role of a free press how we do our jobs you know the gathering of sources how you confirm things that would be great and also how did it be a discerning consumer and I think that's one of the most difficult challenges that just American voters or voters period around the world face today is you you can pull up a website it's ABC oh it looks like ABC News they had a bad one that some fake some Russia fake news thing at a really an ABC News logo that they stole with an address and everything like it but if you read it doesn't feel right there's something off and I wonder how hard that is I mean it feels off to me because I do this every day and things weren't attributed correctly and it was just it read like in a we know the rules of how attribution works and all this stuff yeah how can we expect the average consumer to know we cannot and that's why I think it's important to teach it early on I don't know we can go pep fairs around the country you immediately there you go well I did you ever get in that conversation with some Trump voters and they would say you know you guys are lying about this yes you ever have like yes of course and how would those interactions go we would try we got to try to explain how how it works and we'd say you know this is not just us making up sources it's not just us making up the news I mean if I say something that's incorrect willfully say something that is incorrect I lose my job it's done I'm over by we had a high-profile example of how we punish people in our business I mean I hate to say we have our businesses made examples of people and it seems like the public still doesn't believe that we will get fired for it there seems to be this this pervasive idea that there is some suit on high who's telling us what to do and what to believe and that we're all real thing is that the suit on high is not paying enough attention to us that's what we think but yeah I tried to explain you know we have to get to sources for things unless it's an extraordinarily high level source but even then usually you gotta get a second source and it runs through standards it runs through legal it runs through people you're just saying I'm smarter I don't know standards legal standards are the standard practices for what is allowed on air and what is not allowed on air what is appropriate for air and what is not appropriate are you putting this quote into context are you sure you're characterizing this the story correctly is it fair to both sides or three sides or four sides or five sides whatever it is legal in are we gonna get sued for this you got to go through all these all these all these many levels then you got to go to someone like Daphne Windsor will say no this is not going on there someone above you it's difficult you just can't just walk up and say whatever you want on television because this came from your number-one fan I have to ask Oh first and claims are number one my mom says mom or Matt I haven't decided here I guess it's Matt sorry not much do you miss being in the field I do I do I would be lying if I didn't if I didn't miss it I look longingly at it I've certainly in a weird way I was looking longingly at hurricane coverage and saying it gotta be nice to get blown around the wind man I've never had that longing feel after bit when you go through one you don't want to ever do it again I used to chase storms for the Weather Channel yeah I I chase tornadoes and yeah I'm from Los Angeles we don't have weather in Los Angeles it barely rains unless it's an El Nino year so I think I find weather to be absolutely fascinating I do miss being in the field I miss talking to people I miss getting out there I miss I miss some the only thing I miss more then it's not sleeping in my own bed it's sleeping in my own bed so it's it's kind of a give some advice to the White House beat reporters right now some of us anything they tell you who weren't on the who weren't on the campaign who have been thrown into this and are still trying to figure him out don't use the word pivot I think there's a tendency to overanalyze him and to project all sorts of strategies that he might be he doesn't play chess correct yes doesn't he's not playing three-dimensional chess he's he's he works he's a very aggressive game of checkers he loves to be kinged yes and then I just wouldn't trust anything they say and they've proven over and over again that they are not so good at telling the truth or the full truth about any situation what's coming that is so predictable to you and yet were a bit in denial about what's coming and how his president skis I don't think that support based breaks and I don't even think it I am wary to say there's this idea that if he doesn't deliver on his promises that that he will be sunk maybe maybe but I'm wary of that and I told the story on your show today yeah I was gonna share it and go ahead and I wrote about it in the New York Times I was a cool thing having your byline in the air times was really cool look if you're gonna be in charge of fake news you want to be in the chief fake news news that's right I mean but this story was I was talking to a man outside of a rally I believe it was Ohio and I said why do you like Donald Trump so much and the man told me because he's gonna build a wall and I said what if he doesn't build a wall it's okay I trust his judgment so Katie told this Katie told this on the show today and Katie will tell you this we all in journalism we acquire penpals yeah okay and they will be sometimes they start out as just terrible critics but maybe you shamed them in their language and they literally apologize and then you start a dialogue and I've acquired quite a few people like this drives my wife crazy but one of my pen pals heard her today we were talking about the Trump in Congress I voted this to Katie but let me read it because I thought it encapsulates this as well the problem is in Trump it's not a senator or even a representative it's not an r and it's not a D it's Congress and their refusal to work together Trump will work with our or D it doesn't matter to him he's not a D he's not an R and that's why the American public put him in office and will keep him there in 2020 Congress better figure out that they're the problem and they better do it pretty quick Trump puts country before party because party doesn't matter and only serves to divide I don't think he cares about party think that's correct yeah I thought this guy understands the Trump movement absolutely a lot of people I think that they believe that Congress is the problem not not President Trump you don't believe he'll get blamed for no inability not biologists because it'll be Congress as well exactly exactly and I there's this weird feeling that because he's claimed he's a deal maker because he doesn't matter who he works with him because he has no allegiance either party that at some point this is gonna have to start working I wonder and then will Donald Trump get the credit for that I don't know this is just spitballing ideas that I have in my head sometimes what some we've talked about it some of the the tuflow moments of covering this campaign what was the highlight covering him the people that I that I've got to work with the highlight was I mean that you're not sitting and sitting on Meet the Press with you Chuck that was we should be on Sunday yeah be sure to tune in please it was and I'm not just saying that because you're sitting here that was an amazing experience but what about on the trail the people that I worked with I mean it was a fascinating to see the country to talk to people and to learn about this movement that was happening this historic movement but I mean the the Trump press corps a group of incredible people major Garrett Carl Cameron Tom yamas Sara Murray Jim Acosta Sara Murray is one of my best friends and I got to hang out with her on the trail every day which was great and the imbeds Ally Batali my producer Anthony taro soap and EV everybody they're all really awesome hard-working fun people and we it's the sort of thing where you you really bond with them in a way that you're that you don't expect it's like bonding with those folks that you were in your college dormitory with you're forced to be together luckily we all really liked each other and then I mean in this and you might find this to be trite but you know NBC had an incredible team of political journalists on the trail and made a good here we have a really good year I mean a good team the people at Casey hunt Andrea Mitchell Kristen Welker Hallie Jackson Peter Alexander Kelly O'Donnell I mean Christians think those are some real heavyweights and we a lot of news and we I think we I think we covered it on the TV side better than anybody else did and it was very exciting to be a part of that movement it was especially exciting to be a part of what was essentially that the first female lead politics team yeah in Network News history the candidates me and Hallie on Donald Trump KC Kristin and Andrea and Hillary Clinton you know it was interesting about that is it internally there wasn't a lot of chatter about this no and it was such a outside phenomenon it was great but it was like the perfect way you want some it was like others notice we weren't sit there to say oh look at us aren't we this throughout me that because the decisions weren't made for any reason other than well this person will be done that and this person's the best fit for that I don't think many of us were were in the front of the pack either to cover these candidates and in the beginning I mean you just were spitballing who's gonna who's gonna cover who III don't I think I would I know I wasn't I think I was low down I think I think you're great strength in this campaign is something that there's not another that that I've always always concerned about in political journalism and I think that you brought something which has been there done that disease the biggest problem and the biggest reason why all of us experts I think miss this is it oh yeah we've been there done that you know we've heard that Ross Perot garbage before we've heard that Donald Trump stuff before we've you know the older versions of it well we've seen George Wallace before and this or that you're a reminder it's a fresh perspectives matter a lot and we I think we benefited because we had more fresh perspective than other than our competition and yet we still didn't listen to you soon enough that's been my biggest takeaway from the book as goddamnit we didn't listen to her soon enough thank you no I mean I say that because I'm curious how would would you do what would you do differently you got to cover the reelect how would you do it differently I I would brush up on all of the stuff that I didn't know I would I would go back and brush up on political history I would like to know more about it than I know at the moment I'm being I'm learning I'm reading but there's I mean it's the more you know the more you don't know that and I would I more loudly demand that we do voter base stories voter base stories let's talk to people let's talk to people let's talk to people let's talk to people let's go into these towns and do stories about communities let's get local let's not just cover the candidate let's get out there and let's talk about what's happening on the ground across America did you say that every cycle I know and I don't know what reason we don't do it I don't either I wish we did do you think if we would have discovered the opioid crisis center yeah I think we would have seen the frustration a lot sooner I think if we were we were out there and going to Michigan even without a candidate Wisconsin Minnesota I think we would have seen what the Clinton campaign didn't see was this this turn what would Hillary Clinton have learned by spending a day in your shoes I think she would have truly learned what political devotion looks like hmm that's interesting and I don't think maybe she would have called everybody a deplorable how important him a moment was that I thought that was catastrophic you don't go after the voters I mean that just it gave them a reason to rally together you're going after me the mumbles in here you always know and your but I always think oh we're hitting on something here that's interesting it it was like a gift to them I remember talking to somebody in the campaign right after it happened and they said well we're gonna go all out with this we're gonna have themes and right after that they came out with the lame miserable a lays deplorable like my French is horrible and it helped they had tea people made t-shirts it was a rallying cry it wasn't a good idea would she have understood the electorate better by spending time at a trump rally and I say this because there's there's vast amounts of politicians walking around Washington who don't understand the Trump phenomenon I think everyday understand it better having been in Grand Rapids with you one night yes and I think that goes from Mitch McConnell yeah goes for Paul Ryan it goes for Hillary Clinton it goes for Chuck Schumer anyone Bernie Sanders saw it because a lot of his there were some crossover voters there I know she got three million more votes I'm not discounting those three million more votes but we are a country that works off an electoral college and Donald Trump won the electoral college even if he lost the popular vote and regardless of whether or not the next person wins the popular vote against Donald Trump what matters is getting out and finding a way to connect to voters in all 50 states not just blue states not just red states I think there needs to be a lot more crossover I mean I listen I know I sound like an idealist here but I think what what boggles my mind still is just this divide and this this inability to get along or to agree on anything and that is where what I think people underestimate about about folks who voted for Donald Trump a lot of them were just sick of the arguing sick of it and I think there's a lot of Hillary Clinton voters who are sick of the arguing why do you so many people who think they know Donald Trump why are they convinced he won't finish his term forget that I'm not talking about Muller Pro why why it was amazing it's been amazing to me how many people who claim to know him somewhat why do you think there is this idea that at some point he walks away because there's a sense from those who know him that this is not necessarily what he enjoys or wanted to do there is a sense among some that he wanted to be called president more than he actually wanted to do the job of governing and the evidence to support that I mean there's a lot but also that's got he's never held elected office people who want to govern govern right they do it they grow up in it they at some point they do a talk shop had none of that his business was large but it was the core people in the business it was a very small business a lot of its branding it's not like he owned this this multinational company that had hundreds of thousands of employees direct employees full-time staff employees but I wonder is that's like the biggest mystery of them all that we've had of him that he has been more devoted to this than I think anybody ever expected I think he's also not somebody who I think if you tell him that he's not gonna do something or that he's gonna fail I want to prove you wrong it seems like he's it seems like he's getting a handle of it more and getting us footing more now than in the beginning but this is a question that's very hard for me to answer because as much as I I know who Donald Trump is I'm not in his mind and this is one of those things that you just you're not only he knows that maybe Ivanka and Dawn and and Eric know that I don't know it for sure what do you tell because there was a version of a question like this and I didn't have I'm not gonna ask it the way it's in here no offense the person that wrote it and it's not but I guess I would I'm gonna reword the question this way which is what do you tell the voter that is petrified I know what I say to friends and family who sit there and are like are just assuming apocalyptic like results right now and I'm always like their guard rails third this or that what do you say to these we're not Brendan that's basically what I say with the cogs of democracy he might have been dusty but you could see them locking into place the wheels of democracy I'm terrible at analogy sometimes and we saw that with the travel ban there's limitations to executive power we see that now with Congress saying we're not gonna go along with everything you want us to do john mccain standing up and saying we are an equal branch of government he can't control the press he cannot control the press he might want to I think there are guardrails there's a lot there I mean there's he's got the nuclear codes there's not always doesn't have guardrails for everything but I I I don't know if I have the best answer for it those who are terrified what um I guess what why do you think he wants to wanted to be President just for the title why did he want this what's his motivation I think there's part of him who thought that he could make things work could we look back and if it's revitalized our democratic institutions that wow maybe his presidency whether it's considered success or not that the candidacy was certainly a success because it was a wake up call potentially yes I do and I think it's been a many ways a great thing for journalism especially because look at what the Washington Post and The New York Times are doing on a daily basis there's this arms race between the two to do better investigative journalism and NBC and all the networks there then we break a lot of stories every day we found our voice again and I as much as people don't trust us I think people are starting to trust us again have you thought about the alternative scenario of Donald Trump loses by handful of votes in Wisconsin Pennsylvania and Michigan and she's narrowly elected president how would he have handled losing like that how would he have handled losing the way Hillary Clinton lost that is a really good question and we thought about that a lot on that day there was a real question about how he would concede would he concede would he say something so inflammatory that it would cause violence in the country and that sounds hyperbolic it sounds alarmist no there was concern but what happens if Donald Trump loses by a little he'd been talking remember he'd been talking about in voter fraud weeks especially in the month of October he had been saying cuz he they thought they were gonna lose so he was already making the excuses and laying the foundation he was saying you've got to watch what's going on in cities like Philadelphia it was not very subtle cities like Philadelphia why Philadelphia cheese and what's not Scranton he wasn't worried about screens wasn't worried about Scranton he was worried about Philadelphia I guess the demographics I don't know at Franklin's vote I don't know from the dead voted so he had been laying that down and he was also talking about this this conspiracy this global conspiracy between the banks and the media and the Clintons and the establishment and they are all out to keep you the American voter the one who really want change and who want to see things see this country become great again they're trying to stop it for their own interests the idea that there might have been violence I think is not a far-fetched one I have to say that's been the I've thought about that alternative and I don't I don't know what's I don't that could have been a bleak picture and then what happens maybe in 2018 or 2020 if that scenario plays out or even if it's a larger margin between the two what happened in Kris Kobach has got this election voter fraud election integrity commission they're claiming there's all this voter fraud out there that there's no evidence to support what happens with all of that those those foundations are still being laid I think we're nearing the end here your questions are getting too hard yeah so but I want to end in a little bit of an upbeat note so and we've been like talking dier dier dier which is just simply what do you what do you how do you want to cover the next campaign besides what you were saying earlier how do you how do you want us to cover donald trump's reelection how can we do this smarter and earn back that trust with the Trump voter that we're actually getting it right not just the public at large but with the Trump voter I want to get out there and I want to be in towns for more than just so rally I want to talk to people I want to sit down with people at a diner and say what are you worried about I want to go there and I want to cover the issues that they feel are not being covered and I want to put those on television every day and not just have to Talking Heads yelling at each other back and forth not that we do that in right now I really don't think that's not a fair accounting of what we do in cable news but I just want it I want it to be more about the people than the candidates do you think Hillary Clinton's media criticism of how we covered hims legit what did she say exactly well just putting on the rally so much and the over coverage of the rallies the over coverage she's got a beef on an email front that's a separate conversation that's not your beat but I'm talking about how we covered him that we covered him did we cover him too much like a celebrity did we cover him too much like a sporting event a spectacle obviously these are leading questions Katie in our business no yes yes and no I think that listen when's the last time you saw 20,000 people show up for a rally six months before a primary when is the last time you saw that name one time when there are 16 other people in the room in the primary there were moments with Obama early but yes okay fine no I mean look before Trump you're right and we in August by the way not on the Republican side we had not seen anything like this on the Republican side I can't since I can't remember in August of 2015 he went to Mobile Alabama and he had 20 it was it was blazing hot thunderstorms 20,000 people showed up for this guy that everybody was was laughing off how do you not put that on television by the way this is my favorite moment of I think pure honesty from the president is when he apparently said yeah Jeff Sessions only endorsed me that day because he saw the crowd and freaked out when he put on the Hat win oh oh yeah make America great again Mobile I think there's some truth in us to that the guide the guide says what do you what he thinks in the moment he thinks it and he believes what he believes in the moment that he says it it's not a like Katie if you believe it we put him on TV a lot but he was also unlike anything we'd ever seen and we fact checked him a lot and we we aired his controversies a lot and we talked about all of the the other lawmakers who were condemning him a lot we did a lot of those things I think we we covered him accurately Austin NBC at least but most for the Muslim media we covered him accurately we covered him aggressively and I don't think that US every people out there are probably still gonna think we're too soft maybe III don't I don't agree I think you can point to a reporter that you thought was too soft you could point to a publication you thought was too soft but in mass I think there was some incredible journalism done look at a fair and hold the Washington Post look what he did that's you want a Pulitzer and he deserved it I don't think US airing Donald Trump on television less would have changed the outcome of the election that's a that's a myth people are holding on to looking for someone else to blame I think it's I think you were doing it you are going to miss it again Katie Turk it's unbelievable [Applause] you've done you've done NBC News proud you've done the Trump press corps proud you've done and I'm so glad you did the shout out to all of our supposed competitors because you're right you know at the end of the day we're all fighting for this fighting under the same banner of that First Amendment and and you know if you're getting attacked today they're going after you know our brothers and sisters at other networks tomorrow and it's all in an attempt to pit us against each other and instead you guys stay focused on during your job thank you Thank You Chuck

Channel: MSNBC

Views: 4,114,956

Keywords: MSNBC, news channel, news station, newspaper, breaking news, us news world news politics current events top stories pop culture business, health, liberal progressive cable cable news, Ari Melber, katy tur, chuck todd, katy tur new book unbelievable, unbelievable, president donald trump, katy tur's experience with donald trump, elections 2016, donald trump, tur, election, katy, katy tur donald trump, katy tur interview, reporter katy tur, new book unbelievable, president

Id: C2SB1gPp5wA

Length: 76min 42sec (4602 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 13 2017