Karl Rove on what the GOP has planned for its future

thank you hi everyone good morning nice to see you all um Karl Rove of course needs no introduction he's been a fiction I sure like one though well here you go by the way he might be a little Punchy because he flew here from London and arrived last night so he deserves special uh appreciation so be really gentle with me I will in a vulnerable place it's not going to hurt at all Carl I promise um but let me finish I've heard that before let me finish your introduction he's been a fixture in the Republican party for more than 50 years I don't know how you like hearing that Carl he worked with former President George W bush on every one of his campaigns earning the nickname the architect for his role in 41's historic 2004 re-election campaign these days he's an author Fox News contributor Wall Street Journal columnist and was an advisor to president Trump's 2020 campaign no I wasn't you weren't no I don't know I got that information then yes you got very 2016. no okay never mind I did have one interesting meeting with him in 2020 if you'd like to hear about that I would go ahead so I get this it's it's May of 2020. there was something going on in the country at that point I can't remember exactly what but I got this phone call from one of his top lieutenants who says what do you think about this Theory we can't attack Joe Biden because he's so weak so weak so weeks are very weak then if we attack him too much the Denver Obama will withdraw him as the candidate and they'll replace him with Andrew Cuomo and his running mate will be Michelle Obama so we better not attack him what do you think of that theory and I said I think that theory is just incredibly insane from top to bottom and explained why they said oh well thank you very much two days later I get a call from another Tom Compton out to Trump says what do you think of the same Theory and I said this is incredibly lunatic Thursday night I get a phone call from Brad parscale with whom I had a cordial weird relationship and he said act surprised but on Saturday morning you're going to get a call inviting you to have lunch next Wednesday with the president because he wants to talk about your this Theory your thoughts on his hysteria and I'm like like no so Thursday of Saturday morning comes nine o'clock the very pleasant Molly Michael calls me hi this is Molly Michael the president would like you to come and have lunch with him on Wednesday okay a president asked you to come you come my wife says what we're in the middle of covet you're not getting on a goddamned airplane so we call up her 94 year old Godfather who's the biggest highway contractor in Texas and Doug Pitcock loans me the Hawker so he I fly to Washington and I walk into the Oval Office been there once or twice 15 people in the office in the Oval Office Trump says you know everybody here you know Jared you know Ivanka hope Hicks you know hope you know you know Mark Meadows my new chief of state you know him Eric you know Brad you know Rana you know you know everybody don't you everybody Carl last six months been been good to me before that not so good he says Carl I want to talk about this Theory I'm really worried Biden is so weak so weak in the basement and we're in Wilmington so weak we attack him too much Obama steps in Andrew Cuomo they pick him as their nominee I can beat him I've known him forever I can beat him but it'd be tougher and they'll have Michelle Obama as the running mate and and what do you think and I said Mr President with all due respect that's an insane Theory for the next two hours we discussed the insane Theory are you listening to this this is so smart why are people not telling me that Michelle Obama hates politics why isn't anybody told me that the people who think Obama who's trying to get a third term what what what Obama and Biden don't like each other no none of the people had read Biden's White House Memoir you know to find out how upset he was with his treatment anyway I'm sitting there going I am in the midst of one weird place at a weird time with a bunch of weird people so anyway that's as close as I I I talked about I talked him out of worrying about Andrew Cuomo the ticket of Andrew Cuomo and Michelle Obama in the 2020 election Carl doesn't really need me here at all but you could just do a one-man show girl Curry Conroe so so bad so bad losers both of them losers okay all right Carl let's talk about the Republican party because actually the title of this this conversation is the elephant in the room which believe it or not I got you from chat GPT I asked for a fun title for my conversation and I thought so much for artificial intelligence the elephant in the room could refer to so many things but let's just start with it's safe to say this is not your grandmother's GOP I mean what is your view what is your view of the current state of the party right now Carl well uh first of all um you're right it's not the party that I grew up in but that's natural political parties change this is not the same Democratic party that I saw when I was growing up this is not the party of Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson and you know it's just not and parties change over time and our party my party is changing parties tend to be driven by in their in their process of Change by either big issues that come along and confront the American people in the two parties take a position the leaders of the two parties take positions or by personalities and unfortunately my party is being driven largely by a personality you know you have to give him credit he is in a charismatic individual who came just at the right moment when our political system was fractured and broken and where the minority party my party was full of angry people who said after eight years of being disrespected of being told as President Obama famously said in February of of 2009 I won in other words I'm not going to listen to you House Republicans who are down here to give me counsel I won shut up they felt that disrespected and they wanted somebody more than anything else who would promise to take a brick and through throw it through the plate glass window of American politics and he did and until we get through this moment of populism and until the two parties get their acts together the Republicans are not the only ones who are problematic have have problems they're not the Democrats have got them too I see it in my home state of Texas Zavala County in South Texas last voted for a Republican president in 1920. Warren G Harding was leading the ticket Hillary Clinton carried the county by about 25 points Donald Trump carried it by 30. why because the heavily Hispanic voters of of that County said we're making our living and energy I'm driving a truck with a CDL license for the oil passion I'm making a hundred and ten thousand dollars a year and my wife's working at the uh at the cafe and getting good tips from the oil field crowd and those guys with a d behind their name they're coming from my job I already had doubts about them because I'm strong pro-life because I'm a Catholic I'm I'm I believe in patriotism because the Hispanics volunteer for military service at a greater percentage than any other group in the American electorate and I believe in family and those people don't seem that they respect people like me and not only that but now they're coming from my job and that's why we have this huge migration of Hispanics in South Texas into the Republican party because of issues and culture but my party is roiled by the presence of Donald Trump who's not a conservative not even a Republican I had an interesting meeting if you like the first one I'll give you the second invitation so just like to do a trump invitation are you going to do it again it's not bad I think it's pretty good it's pretty good so I get I get a phone call this is 2016. May of 2016. I get a call from a friend of mine who's also a frenemy of Trumps known him for 30 or 40 years and as a frenemy Donald Trump has no friends but he has people who know him and are you know on and off again when they said my friend calls me kiddo get out will you write something nice about Donald he's really upset you haven't said anything nice about him he just won Indiana he's going to be the nominee will you write something nice about him this on a Wednesday afternoon and I remember it was a Wednesday because I said I've just finished writing my column let me read you my column for tomorrow and I read them the column he said ah Donald's got a live at he's got a lot of that will you do me a favor at the end of when you say Good Will you say very good okay fine I'll put very in there next morning he calls me he says oh my God Donald's furious with your column long story short who is this guy by the way can you tell us no uh but I'll be on his boat next week so so long story short I I end up getting dragooned into meeting Trump and to give him advice I said I don't want to give him advice I'm not in the advice giving business to Donald Trump he said well he wants to know how you did it twice and I said fine okay that's the construct I'll come with a list of the things that you need to do and um so I go to the meeting and uh you know the first thing you need to do is have a strategy to get to 270 Electoral College votes and you have to have several different paths to get there and I start going through the you know the past in 2000 we had to have the traditional Battleground states that included places like Colorado back then Missouri was a Battleground State Etc Florida Ohio et cetera then I said Great Lakes states said there were four states uh Southern border states that have been carried twice by Clinton Gore and were historically Democrat and we had to carry every one of them Arkansas the home state of of the sitting president Tennessee the home state of the of our opponent Kentucky and West Virginia and he said West Virginia I did really well there they led me in the primary I'm going to win West Virginia I said yeah you're going to win West Virginia but I said it was it was not a sure thing in 2000. the last time the Republicans had won West Virginia an open race for the presidency was 1928 and it took nominating a Catholic from New York to bring in all the Presbyterians and Baptists and methodists in West Virginia to vote Republican Bob Dole lost it by 16 points we won it by six and since then the state has transitioned to a strong Republican stronghold but back then it wasn't he said and I said then there are western states that we give me a Diet Coke yeah would somebody bring me some Cokes for now she would like a coke uh so then I said they're western states that that had been won at least once and in one case twice by by um by Clinton Gore and we had to win win at least three of the four states Montana Nevada Arizona and Oregon he said Oregon I did really good in Oregon really good really good they like me out there I could win Oregon I said no you can't he said I want Oregon the primary I can win Oregon I said no you can't I said in 2000 we had Ralph Nader on the ballot with a bunch of Kooks and nuts in Eugene and Portland who were followers of his and the Republicans were in a Resurgence They just won a U.S Senate race at three or five congressmen had won the State House were a couple of seats down in the state senate had two constitutional offices but since then a bunch of people have moved there from California and the state's gone far left the last time they won a Statewide race was in 2006 they're down to one Congressman out of five they've got minorities almost veto proof minorities in the legislature and the state's gone to hell in a handbasket and he said well I'll win California foreign why he was not going to win California because a majority of the voters would be black brown or Asian and particularly the brown voters don't like him and he said well I'll win New York I'll win New York who in New York I said no you're not I said you just had the primary and more people voted for Bernie Sanders and voted for the entire Republican ticket combined you're not going to win you're not going to win New York and every day you spend in a place like Oregon or New York or California is a day you can't spend in a state you can win like a Pennsylvania or Florida or North Carolina or Michigan or Wisconsin that you need to win and you need to spend all of your time energy and effort in the states that are part of your winning electoral Coalition he said anyway we go on and on and on this is about three hours long and then he leaves and then they keep me for about 45 minutes and then take me through the servants elevator to the basement where we connect to the tunnel to the building south of where we are and I emerge a block away from where I entered the building so that there would be no press if anybody was there they couldn't see me so anyway a week or two later goes and gives a speech in Pittsburgh and I said you know you got to spend all your time your energy and your money and your resources in the states that are your Battleground States and he says you know you know I've got about I've got a strategy to win 270. I'm going to spend all of my time I'll let my energy all of my money all of other people's money and the critical Battleground States and I've got 15 of them and between now and the Republican convention I'm going to tell you what they are but today I'm going to share with you three of my Battleground States Oregon California and New York my friend and say well he got the principal right but execution leaves a little bit that we just you know so I guess you weren't an advisor no no but generally the general principle let's just so so you wanted him to be re-elected in 2020. I didn't want him to be wiped out I care about my party in the future my party is having a bunch of people who are on the bubble who are sensible insane Republicans in marginal districts uh I wanna I I want them back I want I want to you know congressman from Nebraska back Don Bacon I want Dan Sullivan to be there from Alaska I want the good I want Peter Meyer in Michigan I want good people who can represent the future of our party not to get wiped out because we got some guy at the top of the ticket who's not attacking Joe Biden because he thinks he's going to be facing Andrew Cuomo and Michelle Obama if he does so it was a down ballot people you were trying to protect future of our party is going to depend upon the the people like I just saw Doug Ducey here if Doug Ducey had been our Republican Senate candidate in Arizona he would have won and he represents the kind of the future of the party that I want we're talking earlier with some people about Tony Gonzalez represents the 23rd District of Texas personal friend of mine I held a fundraiser at my house for him he represents the future future of our party and I and in a close election I want people like that Juan siskomani who's here from Tucson anybody this is a brilliant young figure this guy was born in Mexico came here as a legal alien a legal citizen at the age of three and he represents the future of our country he's got a great future ahead of him but he's in a district that's on the bubble and you get a lunatic running a stupid campaign at the top of the ticket and we're going to lose too many of those people and we're going to left with people who represent deep red districts and and and don't know how to communicate with the country as a whole all right well that lunatic still has a lot of support as you call him is made plain I want to read something I was talking in a generic term I I wanna I wanna read something that Jonathan Martin wrote that landed in my inbox this morning Carl he wrote as made plane in the NBC poll last weekend half the party remains in the grip of a personality cult what else to conclude from a survey that shows a narrow majority of Republican voters support a candidate just indicted on 37 felony counts even more arresting 77 percent of GOP Primary voters surveyed said the charges were either no cause for concern or only bothered them slightly that's the marketplace Republican officials are working with as many of former GOP lawmaker happily emancipated from a primary ballot will tell you they don't have a trump problem they have a voter problem you describe why that the guy in Texas the oil worker couldn't quit him but what about everyone else why does Donald Trump have such a hold on so many people first we're in a tribal moment where where if you attack my guy or my gal from my party we leap to their defense whether they deserve it or not and second of all Jonathan's a friend of mine and we've had this discussion a lot I think it is artificial to suggest that at this point in the contest a 49 showing by Trump in the polls is indicative of where it's going to be in six or seven months if that were the case in June of 2007 Hillary Clinton was leading Barack Obama two and a half to one I think there's something else going on out there I think there's 30 or 35 percent of the Republican electorate that is going to be with Donald Trump till the till the last dog is dead but I think there is an element approaching about 40 percent of his supporters and 20 or 25 percent of the Republican electorate that is saying to itself you attack him you come after him with a stupid indictment in in Manhattan on on uh on on business records I'm going to jump to his defense but underneath the surface it is I like what he did but by God he's got so much baggage shouldn't we turn the page and how much is their enthusiasm for Trump predicated on a leadership vacuum people who refuse to criticize him as you remember after January 6 Kevin Uh Kevin McCarthy condemned him Mitch McConnell clearly wanted to vote to convict Trump in the second impeachment put pulled back at the end and by the way he if Trump had been convicted he wouldn't be able to run again why why do repo why are Republican leaders so reticent to speak out against him and do you think that might have a trickle-down effect on some of the Trump loyalists out there first first of all I'm not going to be critical of people in elective office Kevin McCarthy's got a job to do with a five-seat margin and Mitch McConnell has got a difficult task in a 5149 Senate and I want again I've got a great friend who's in The Legend who's in the Congress who is a wonderful human being in a district that has got a big Trump universe and he comes out against Trump and he's going to have a primary opponent and I'd rather him remain mute than to have him be beaten so they're afraid to speak out for their own political hides because they won't get reelected or they may have a very tough primary now some of them are we were talking again about Tony Gonzalez he'd been very clear but Peter Meyer to me is one of the key examples Trump is what Trump is an unusual figure in that what drives him is Rage and anger and a desire for Revenge so Peter Meyer who's a you know wonderful human being a great representative has is from a terrific family you know how many of you you're from the Upper Midwest and shop at Myers anybody hear you I mean this is like the you know Safe Way of the Upper Midwest and and he is a brilliant young man but he he voted for impeachment and what happened Trump went and got a guy in to run against him and then backed him and I don't mean just gave him his endorsement rate but raised money gave him attack Peter all the time and Peter lost barely but he lost to a guy who could not hold the seat and even if he held the seat would be an embarrassment to the party so I'm not going to be critical of people in office I do think it is useful for every one of these candidates they're going to have to distinguish themselves from Trump and they've got to find ways to distinguish themselves from Trump on things of some and substance and whether that's his China policy or immigration policy or his failure on you know you name it and he's and they got to leave it up to people like me to be critical of him on January 6th and on the classified records but I you know they got it they gotta more than that they've got to be able to say to them say to the to the Republican electorate I have an optimistic and positive Vision that makes you easier for you to say you know what I like Donald but he's got too much baggage and we need a younger face I I I'm not to dwell on it but I I the country is hungry for this the day after the election I was hired to speak at the 41st annual South Dakota law enforcement Gala anybody here from South Dakota okay for 41 years they've been having this damn thing and they hire you know Colin Powell spoken there Barbara Bush spoke there 43 spoke there they hire a patriotic speaker about 2500 people are in a gigantic Barn in in uh in Sioux Falls and it is America it's red America but it's America every County Commissioner every state you know they got the Supreme Court chief justice leads everybody in the Pledge of Allegiance we got Suey Morris who you many of you may remember saying the national anthem last year at the state fair is here tonight to give us to lead us all in singing our national anthem and father Jones from the say all Mercy said Catholic Church who's been given the invocation benediction for the last 35 years is here for number 36 father Joe get up here and I mean it is like America they said give a patriotic speech and then save lots of time for Q a so I gave the Patriotic speech turned to the Q a guy gets up in the back of the room question number two he says what do you think about Joe Biden running for president at the age of 82. I said well let me piss off every Democrat in the room I think is bad for our country I happen to work in that place for seven years I know exactly what it demands of any human being every president that goes in there comes out four years later looking a hell of a lot older and for good reason but I said let me piss off every Republican in the room 78 year old ain't much better I said our country deserves better than this our country faces big challenges and we'd be better off if we had somebody other than the 78 year old and the 82 year old running for president and guess what 2500 people stood up and cheered that's in red America so somebody is going to have to come along out of the Republican the Republican field or hopefully several people and start to light that fire that by God we can do better than this you that's a great segue to my next question I'm going to run down the list of Republican candidates because I'm sure everyone would like to hear your take on all these folks Ron DeSantis he seemed like a rocket ship six months ago but since he since then he called the war in Ukraine a territorial dispute launched his campaign in a glitchfield Audio Only Twitter announcement and signed a host of very conservative bills including a six-week abortion ban which is basically a total ban on abortion so I know when you and I talked gosh a number of months ago with David Axelrod at um at an event you said basically he has no personality terrible retail politician share what you think of Ron desantis's both his campaign and as a person yeah after we were together I wrote a column saying that the media was too quick to write to to write him up yeah he's got problems he doesn't he's not the warmest fuzziest personality around but he has done a lot of things that people in the Republican Party applaud particularly taking on woke and the thing that got him big in the polls last fall was the one thing they knew about him which was then in a purple State Battleground State he won re-election by 20 points and took the Republican Party into a super majority in the state legislature and put the Republican Party into the majority on the registration rules for the first time the New York Times said for the first time in 20 years there are more Republicans in Florida than there are Democrats they're more Republicans than democrats for the first time in the history of Florida not the last 20 years and so that's what they knew about him and the question is going to be how good is he going to get none of these people are prepared for this what about the Disney thing Carl I mean doesn't he come across as incredibly Petty and anti-business he does to Defenders at Disney but to the people who sort of say Disney had it coming to him they not and look I'm not in favor Disney's such a huge employer for Florida they have it coming because they want to expand it and welcome LGBT Disney is a big employer yeah but Disney also is something that that is not good in our society and that is your big business and you get special privileges you literally they elect a the governing unit that sets the tax rates and governs Disneyland consisted of five people who are Disney employees who are given property inside the area and they have special privileges that that Universal Studios and every other but a similar institution in the Orlando area doesn't have so I you know I I wouldn't have picked it and made it to centerpiece but I'm also not going to criticize him for saying you know what everybody ought to be treated equally and just because you were Disney doesn't mean that you get treated differently than Universal Studios and everybody else all right what advice would you give Ron DeSantis going forward keep doing what he's doing which is start asking answering questions have his wife there because she warms him up start paying attention to people and on a one-to-one basis and realize that you're not running for the presidency of the United States you're running for first or second position in Iowa and New Hampshire which is a big different deal which means you start paying attention to you know who's the county commissioner and a little County in Iowa and who's the city council member in Beau New Hampshire and what they care about in Iowa what they care about New Hampshire all right let's talk about Chris Christie I mean he's been such a pit bull really criticizing Trump is that going to backfire help him what uh I I think it's it he plays a vital role in starting to be part of the solvent that takes uh Trump's hands off of the Republican party because if you'll notice so far it's it's virtually all of it is about substance you told us that you're going to build the wall in Mexico and pay for it you didn't build a wall and Mexico has yet to give us any money you're a blowhard I'm going to get things done and that that is a useful a voice to be heard what advice would you give him keep doing what you're doing okay people apparently don't need your advice Carl maybe maybe maybe they're doing what they're doing because they asked for my advice earlier than you oh okay [Applause] you know Mike Pence is an under if you're buying stocks in Iowa he's an undervalued stock people forget that in Iowa in those caucuses probably 40 percent of the vote are going to be self-identified Evangelical Christians and particularly in Northwest Iowa that's going to be dominant and ironically enough last time around the battle for the Evangelical vote in Iowa was between two people Theodore Cruz and Donald Trump and he and Mike Pence has the ability to unify that I think it's more difficult to see him long term but again this is a process of dealing blows to Trump and he can deal an important blow to Trump in Iowa Nikki oh I have to ask you what advice would you give him have you already told him already I've sort of indicated my openness to giving advice because it cost me nothing and all it takes him is a simple phone call but but yes you've talked to him I've talked to his people and I've talked to him we had look so we had a gigantic voter registration effort in Texas when I when I I grew when I went to Texas there were 16 Republicans out of 150 in the Texas house different in Texas State Senate we had had in one election we had had hell Phil Graham was a Democrat back then we had had in the Texas state senate an election 31 members in the Senate and in one election alone we had increased our numbers in the state senate by 50 percent we'd gone from two to three foreign and we'd had a brief period of time in which we didn't have a republican Governor 114 years so Texas changed and I happened to be there for it and Phil was there for it and we were part of it and then we started to lose so I said to hell with it I got lots of things in to do but I want to help reinvigorate my party so we had a voter registration effort and to reward the donors we had two conferences one after the 2020 election and one after the 2022 election and Mike Pence came to both of them the only person who when he walked into the room 40 each one of them appeared for 45 minutes we had the first time we had Tom Cotton Chris Christie Ron DeSantis Mike Pence Mike Pompeo Marco Rubio Rick Scott and Tim Scott this time around we had Tim Scott again Mike Pence again we had um Chris Christie again we had Brian Camp I'm going to leave out a bunch but anyway we had them all the only person who when he walked into the room and walked onto the stage for his 45 minute interview who immediately got a standing ovation was Mike Pence and it was because people said I made before you or I may not be for you but by God you're a man of Courage on January 6 and you deserve our Pro our Applause and appreciation let's let me ask you about a couple of other candidates and you can tell me if there's anyone else we should be paying attention to Nikki Haley uh full disclosure I hosted a dinner for this year at my house for the conference you came in the night before so I said to people if you want to come and have dinner with her we we shoveled 52 people into my gigantic living room to have dinner uh I'm really impressed with her she doesn't seem to be making getting much you know what or is it too early it's too early and and the kind of Attraction you're getting now is people in New Hampshire and Iowa say and you know what I need to I need to pay attention to that person and I I've been long I was the speaker at the when she was running for governor I was the speaker at the South Carolina Republican big fundraising dinner I was seated at the head table which was right in the middle of this gigantic ballroom and my seat mate was Governor Mark Sanford who just returned from the Appalachia Trail if you get my drift so nobody wanted to come up and talk to him and and all of the five or six candidates lieutenant governor and the blah blah and the blah blah and the blah blah all of whom were running for governor were sitting in around in their various parts of the room and South Carolina each one of these early States is different than another South Carolina think of it as a feudal Empire so you have the you know the prince of the up country and you have the baron of the Low Country and you have the you have the the the the Duke of uh the the PD and so they're all sitting there and you know people are coming up to all these candidates for Governor kissing the ring saying hello they just sat at their table and people came up and paid their respects door at the far end of the room blows open and in comes this woman and she is like working every table and she said hello to everybody and she's making a particular effort to go up to the table of every one of her opponents and clap them on the back and look them in the face and laugh with them for a minute and then move on Nikki Haley and I said that woman is going to beat the hell out of these guys and she did and I think I think that she has got the level of energy that a lot of these people will find themselves needing in this kind of an effort Tim Scott um remarkable story uh two years ago at our first visit he was interviewed by Kevin Brady who's chairman of the Ways and Means Committee and Kevin started off saying Tim we got to know each other during the 2017 tax battle and you were the big proponent of opportunity zones and tell us about opportunity zones and blah blah blah blah blah blah for about five minutes and then he said Tim enough of that he said I want people to get to know you like I know you and you don't know what I'm going to ask you and I haven't shown these to you in advance and I apologize for being too personal but I want them to know you like I know you so Tim when was the first time that you realized that somebody hated you because of the color of your skin and the next 40 minutes was one of the most remarkable periods I've ever seen in politics because these two men talked about his life and what it was like not to know his father and what it was like to be you know grow up in a trouble to him been living with his grandparents being sent to work to help support the family I mean you got a sense of this guy this year we sent out a questionnaire we said who do you want to have back Tim Scott was the number one one to come back and so Senator cornyn Senator Graham's successor said I want to interview him this year and so they got to talking about the future of the Republican Party and the two men got going and Tim Scott is like really revved up and in the middle of an answer gets up with his microphone walks out the stage and starts wandering through the 450 people that's sitting at a table saying don't you think our party needs to do this well what about if our party did that and people it was like Amen brother amen this guy can rise arouse a crowd now is he going to be able to move from being able to Rouse a crowd to having people say I see that this guy has what it takes to make decisions in the Oval Office that's going to be the key test for him but he's going to start at a place where very few of this crowd are which is the ability to Rouse a crowd of complete and total strangers so maybe if not this time this go around he's young right he's young I mean think about it our oldest candidate will at the time of the election next year be 61. can I give you a really crackpot Theory yeah I think we're at a I think we're at a point in our country's history where people are dying for a generational shift I agree 1960. we had an admirable president Dwight D Eisenhower history now looks back on him far more benevolently than we did at the time but we thought he was a good guy but he was born in the 19th century and people said you know what we want to pick from one of these two Young Veterans ironically enough of the Pacific Theater the 41 year old Jack Kennedy and the 45 year old Richard Nixon and that's what our choice came down to and for the next 32 years we are governed by men from the greatest Generation Kennedy Johnson Nixon Ford Carter Reagan and finally Reagan Reagan's successor 40 41 who is at the age of 18 the youngest Navy fighter pilot in World War II and then Along Comes a baby boomer Bill Clinton gets the same percentage of the vote that that uh that Michael Dukakis gets but in a three-way race that was enough and for 32 years we've been governed by men from from the baby boomer generation or in the case of Joe Biden the generation before the Baby Boomers the so-called silent generation and I think people are looking at this saying in this country it's time for a generational shift and I think the party that figures that out has the upper hand for next year the Democrats have a big bench they could pick a lot of people off that bench and and easily claim a victory next year the Republicans have a big bench they could if they claim anybody except the old guy it's the 78 year old I think they're going to have the upper hand next year if if we're stuck with Biden and trump it is going to be an election that's going to be close that either man could win and it's going to come down who do we dislike less not who do we like more and do you think those two will be the nominees well obviously you know if I head to bed today I'd bet on Trump but I take the field against him and I bet on Biden but I'd take the field against him I just I I just think there's something going on out there that I and I feel stronger about Trump not being the nominee I do think there's I mean you're 49 of the vote and you're the former president that means 51 percent of the people have already made up their mind they're going to be for somebody else and I think this thing is we as we go to trial and we see more about how he mishandled highly classified information and treated it as childish mementos that people are going to say you know what he's got too much baggage what about the argument so many and then I'm going to open it up for questions I have so many questions I'm so bummed that you've been great but all these questions maybe you'll talk to me after that she's guilting me right now no no no no but what about this claim that there's a double standard I mean you hear that from so many Republicans well Biden took classified documents and and Hunter Biden's prosecution was you know was uh you know not fair or whatever this this double statement it's not resonating yeah it is let's put Hunter Biden aside I do think there is a double standard for Hunter Biden I mean it just please the week that he pleads guilty to not paying his taxes he had he does not have the courtesy not to go to the India State dinner we all get treated to him looking at the Indian State dinner I mean you some you didn't pay your taxes and not only that but you didn't pay your taxes at all and got away with it on barisma you know because it because the U.S attorney in D.C and the U.S attorney in the central district of California refused to take those charges that's where you had to file the charges on the brisma money so put him aside but on the other thing yes it it with some part of the party it has a purchase but again not to not to dwell on personal experience the week that that he was indicted I happen to be in Amarillo Texas when all of this kerfuffle happened you talk about a red part of the country Potter and Randall counties I mean they hunt Democrats with dogs up there and I was in front of a crowd the sort of the young leadership of of Amarillo you know the city fathers do a good job of trying to get the Next Generation and sitting in the audience is is Congressman Jackson former White House physician who is one of the biggest trumpers around and so I get the question what isn't this unfair and I said no it's not I said I lived in that place for seven years he violated the presidential records act no president is supposed to leave with any scrap of paper except his personal journal or anything he declares to be personal in advance and the papers with regard to his political activities as a presidential candidate and in support of other candidates that's all that you're allowed to take and so we went we got into this and you know I got a lot of heads nodding I said you know do you really want a president to be able to decide to take secret materials out and then did he say what about Biden well he said say what about Biden but the answer on that is he took him and as soon as they found him they returned him that's not what this guy did this guy knowingly walked out with box after box after box after box after box containing hundreds of classified materials knew they were there and doesn't seem to understand and showed them to people and show them to people and also did not seem to understand in the white house there is a job called staff secretary sounds like a nothing Burger doesn't it that person sees every piece of paper that goes to the president you know who George W Bush's staff secretary was Brett Kavanaugh this has to be held by a very accomplished person underneath the staff secretary is the office of Records Administration set up under the presidential records act which keeps a log of all those pieces of paper that go to the president in the National Security Council there's a separate log that keeps a duplicate log of every classified piece of information that goes to the president so inside the White House there is there are two logs of every one of those documents So within a matter of days after he left the White House on January 20th the National Archives and Records Administration Nara knew exactly what or they didn't know exactly they knew that hundreds of classified documents were missing and they started asking in no later than than May of 2021 and probably as early as March will you return them now when when they said to to Biden you got to classify a document return them they immediately searched and returned them so did the vice president of the United States Mike Pence former vice president because he had a couple of classified documents they did not engage in a year and a half long effort to hide the fact that he was holding on to classified documents and during that process to require people to lie to the U.S government in June of 2022 we have the lawyers say we've conducted a quote diligent search and we don't find any other any materials that are that are in response to the subpoena and and they know that they're lying now how do they know that they're lying I bet you a dime to a dollar when they when they take this to the trial some of the people who are going to verify that there were classified documents that the president knew him are people who carry a get a a a badge and a gun members of the Secret Service they have no statutory responsibility for the maintenance and upkeep of classified documents but they're sworn federal law enforcement officers and they have a moral responsibility to report a crime and I bet you a bunch of them said you know what I saw him waving around the Kim Jong-un letters do you hear it Mar-A-Lago tonight you'll take to get the prime rib it's really good tonight I had a wonderful relationship with Kim jong-in would you like to hear the letter he wrote to me Molly give me the Rocket Man file I mean please Carl we're still waiting for the January 6 to see if there's an indictment for January 6 the Georgia case Tony Gonzalez you mentioned earlier congressman from Texas told me yesterday the more Trump has indicted the bigger the the more enthusiastic his support I I just at some point is that going to change no I disagree the more enthusiastic element of his support is but look not all Republicans are idiots and there are a lot of people who are in this tribal moment are saying you know what I liked what he did but God dang it can we win if we have that kind of baggage around him and and I think that's gonna I think that is a continuing effort I mean look I travel a lot people come up to me an airport where's your whiteboard please they're expensive and I'd have to buy myself but you know we get into discussions in about half the time people say I really love Trump but can he win and I say no I don't think he can win and they say well that's sort of how I feel I liked what he did but we need to turn the page we need to start a new chapter I need to find somebody else now maybe that's just the kind of people that I run into but I think that sentiment is below the surface and I think that that when if you're the former sitting president of the United States and you get 49 in the survey that's a problem just incidentally as it is if you're the sitting president of the United States and the new NBC poll comes out and 64 percent of Democrats stay there for you when you've got a incredible lunatic with all kinds of conspiracy theories and a and a crystal and you know uh Crystal and of you know Wellness person running against you you know like please the the both people that we've got at the top of their wait who are you talking about I'm talking about Marianna Williamson and Robert Kennedy Jr running against Joe Biden who's getting less than two-thirds of the support of the Democrats and and I mean please I mean what this guy Kennedy know I know his cousins no wonder they hate the guy I mean yeah but he's getting all sorts of support from Silicon Valley I mean it's kind of it's kind of shocking how many people he's resonating with a lot of people yeah and and he had he every day there's a last week he took this the the convicted child sex offender Scott Ritter on his podcast so the two of them could talk about what a smart guy Vladimir Putin was and how it was our fault that he invaded Ukraine and I'm going like what kind of a are you on several levels and yet and yet he's getting you know depending on how you look at it between 16 or 17 percent of the primary vote and 20 or 25 percent vote which I say is the last name and a desire not to be for Biden I want to I want to ask you one question then I'm going to open it up maybe we'll go a little bit over if that's okay with everybody what about overturning Roe v Wade you know a lot of it's sort of like the the dog catching the car right and and it's it's it's evaporated an issue that was so powerful for for a lot of GOP candidates and I'm curious men any or don't want to say use the a word out on the campaign Trail for alienating a lot of Voters especially Suburban women so so how is that going to play out in 2024 and while you're at it what about the recent Supreme Court decisions affirmative action uh we just heard about the web designer they support the web designer who doesn't want to work for the gay couple um what impact will all this have Carl yeah well we're in we're in the midst of a culture war and both sides got to be careful about this because particularly abortion is not an easy simple you know either forward or against it two-thirds of the American people were opposed to Roe v Wade being overturned two-thirds of the American people oppose abortion in the second and third trimesters so the Democrats if they go out there and say no we don't want the parents to be involved in the decision of their teenage daughters and you ought to be able to have an abortion right up to the time of birth they're in trouble the country if the country was you know six months before uh Dobbs if you'd said to Republican pro-lifers would you be willing to settle for a law that says 10 weeks 12 weeks 14 weeks rape incest life of the mother maybe one other nature of the pregnancy would you be willing to settle for that they'd say yeah we'll settle for that in a nanosecond but Dobbs has now got in my party a bunch of people who say uh no abortions no exceptions if a 10 year old is raped by her father she has to go to another state and if and if we if you don't agree with me I'll see you in a primary but don't kid yourself this is a problem for Democrats this is not an unalloyed positive for Democrats remember last year 2022 Mike dewine started out in life as a lawyer for pro-life and Catholic causes and he won re-election what used to be a purple state by 27 points against a credible Democrat DeSantis in a purple State won by 20 points in my home state of Texas Greg Abbott signed a tough tough pro-life measures Robert Francis O'Rourke I refuse to say the phony nickname made it a big issue and ran television ads and got his ass kicked so both sides have got some problems here we we have a national consensus if we were willing to take it which is somewhere between you know 10 12 14 weeks three exceptions uh parental consent that's something that you know we'd have two out of three Americans or better being in favor of but we're not going to get there without going through a battle of extremists one group saying no abortions at all and the others say no restrictions at all on any kind of abortion and until until we get sane and sensible people who say let's find an area where we can have broad agreement and unfortunately that means we'll have a law like France which I've never thought we would settle on but we probably will what about affirmative action and the cases I just mentioned you know look remember remember that again this is one where the left is on is going to make a mistake if they say that it make a big deal out of it because I think two-thirds of Americans support what the Supreme Court did they did and remember one of the states that in a referenda voted to remove race as a condition of application due to college California that's right let me um okay request make your question shortened to the point no speeches thank you um we have Mike we're going to just do okay how about this gentleman here hi what do you think about the effort of the null labels organization around a possible third-party candidacy yeah I understand that the logic behind the No Labels insurance policy if we end up with Trump and Biden could there be somebody on a third party label who comes in as a savior first of all who's the savior in ain't Joe Mansion not after inflation reduction act vote it's not Bill mcraven my friend in Houston in Austin my neighbor you know there is no big Sterling figure there maybe somebody emerges but I you know I understand and I'm not going to be critical of the insurance policy approach fine but I'm not certain I see somebody and they have not thought this thing through one of its principal backers and Underwriters called me and said what do you think and I said well good for you okay fine I get it I better use it for your money but but okay understanding you feel strongly about it but I said if you thought through what happens once you establish a line in all 50 states and they will have a line in all 50 states I've seen the plan they have the money to do it it's mechanical to get there it's going to cost them 50 million dollars but they're going to get there but I said what happens then we've got a senate election next year in Texas and 38 members of the House what happens when a lunatic says you know what I want to be the No Labels candidate for the Senate and I'm a vegetarian and I'm going to run on the Vic we'll we will do we will Outlaw the beef industry you know what happens you know this actually in 1912 this was an issue facing the Progressive Party and then back then the National Committee the executive committee of Theodore Roosevelt's third party could say you in order to be a candidate of our party you have to be win our approval but that's not what the law says now so you'll have a bunch of nuts next year if they get their party label who are going to be running for Congress and State Legislature and Senate and governor and Senator and president on the No Labels party line as you can see Carl said political historian too okay quickly right the gentleman in the front and then the next one is this guy in the blue back there okay thank you first time I'm a vegan most of my life and I would never Outlaw the beef industry uh my wife would you be a candidate for president no to quote you and I agree we've got some problems here my question for you honestly is how what or how specifically how do you see your vision of politics for your party or for any party how do you see a Grand Vision to bring together people who are and I'm going to say this positively and honestly so I don't offend anybody who are pro-life and who are pro-choice who are pro-gun rights and who are pro-gun rights regulation who are Pro-X and Pro Y how do you see your party your vision yourself bringing together people I've heard candidates that you say are ideal but what what is the how the way into bringing Chuck Schumer and you pick your aunt your party represented yeah I'm not certain you can bring together Chuck Schumer and Phil Graham in the same party in fact I'm pretty confident you can't but but let me rephrase your question how do we get to there are two two ways to answer that one question is how do we get our politics back to a place where we actually are functioning better than we are today and how do we get how do I work to get my party back in a place where I think it represents a more positive and optimistic vision for the future there are lots of things there that I'm that that I think individual Republicans can do starting with picking a good candidate for president and also them picking good candidates for lesser offices and getting re-engaged in the activities of the party in Texas we have 14 000 delegates allocated to our State Convention last year four thousand people attended and olatik was 2001 lunatics in order to write a stupid platform and to do stupid things so we all need to get back involved let me seize on the first part of your question though uh to sort of maybe wrap this up our politics is broken today both parties are broken nobody could be happy with what's going on there are some good things going on we don't give it we don't give attention to the good things that are going on think about three big things that happened last Congressional session that happened not because the White House wasn't it wasn't was in charge and not because the speaker of the house and the president and the majority leader in the Senate said this is our priority we had the China bill we had the infrastructure bill and we had the gun measure by Murphy and cornyn after Uvalde and why did they happen the the China Bill the silica the chip Bill happened because we had a freshman republican from Indiana named Todd young who said I'm really worried about what happens to our economy if China invades Taiwan and the foundries from which 80 or 90 percent of our chips come from are suddenly unavailable to us because they've either been destroyed or taken control of by the Chinese what do we do about it and he finds out that the senior Democrat on the Senate Intel committee Mark Warner Virginia has the same interests so the Two Men start talking and out comes the chip spill now I'm not certain I'm in agreement of everything in there but two men said let's put aside partisanship and see if we can't get a get a consensus among our colleagues on something important infrastructure bill was actually the reauthorization of the highway trust fund which has happened every five years since 1957 and every session every five years the house or Senate takes the lead and last time around it was it was The house's lead and the house chairman of the house Transportation committee who thankfully is now gone says I want to reauthorize reauthorize the highway trust fund but normally what happens is it's like they reauthorize it largely the same that they've always done but there's a little thing on the edge we're going to have a demonstration project for tearing unused Urban Rail lines into hiking bike paths are we going to have a little bit more money for mass transit or we're gonna we're gonna do this thing or that thing on the edges the house Transportation committee chairman says we're going to reauthorize the highway trust fund bill with the following provision no money is appropriated under this act may be used to increase capacity on any federal interstate highway or to create any additional new mile of Interstate Highway think about that for a minute how idiotic is that and so the Senate Democrats on the transportation committee went to their Republican colleagues and said we don't want that piece of trash coming over here can we find an agreement to reauthorize the highway trust Bill like we've normally done it and and we'll take the lead it ain't our turn but if we move first we'll keep them from sending us that stupid Bill and and while we're at it we've since we came to an agreement on reauthorizing the highway trust fund oh geez can we find it can we find an agreement on a reasonable amount of money roughly 30 billion dollars a year for the next 10 years to spend on infrastructure that we think will help improve our economy ports airports railroads you know Intermodal transfer points Etc et cetera and they did now again I may not agree with everything in it but again it was done without the White House in fact the White House said we don't want that bill to move because we've we're afraid it will undermine support for Bill back better and the same thing happened between Murphy and corn and on the gun bill and we don't applaud it it was look John cornyn comes down hunting on my lease every year in South Texas he's got almost as many guns as I have here's the Second Amendment guy as am I but we believe in applying the laws strictly and you know what happened in Uvalde that kid did things as a teenager that made it impossible for him to purchase a weapon and at the age of 18 poof it all went away and he went out and bought an AR-15 and 300 rounds of ammunition and shot up a bunch of people and killed a bunch of kids what cornyn and Murphy said was we're going to say that for the purpose of purchasing a weapon at the age of 18 those things don't go away they go away for the purpose of you being able to join the military or get a job but they're not going to go away for the purpose of you purchasing a weapon because we don't want that kid to be able to say I did a bad thing it's at before I turned 18 and just after I turned 18 I I it went away well I'm on it do you nobody recognizes what these guys did after Sutherland Springs do you remember this a couple years ago we had the guy was kicked out of the Air Force who takes an AR-15 and kills like I think 20 people at a church in Sutherland Springs Texas near San Antonio and Murphy and Corning came together you know what they found out that guy had been kicked out of the Air Force for something that made it impossible for him to buy a weapon and the Air Force had failed to communicate to the National Crime information system that he had done that bad thing in fact it turned out only one service the Marine Corps was reporting people who convinced who had an offense in the military that allowed them not to buy a weapon and in addition blue States and red states were either failing to provide information in a timely fashion or failing to provide accurate and complete information Idaho they said you know what we don't want to send that stuff off we'll get around to it when we get around to it Washington State next door says ah well that's really not important for us that's a federal thing so Murphy and cornyn said we are going to put strict penalties on every Federal agency in every state for failure to provide the information to the to the next system National Crime information system they're going to be tough penalties you've got two years to get your act together and then if you don't do it in a timely fashion and accurate fashion there are heavy sanctions against the state or federal agencies within two years everybody was in compliance do you know how many pieces of information were added to the next system not representing individuals alone but but each instance represents an act by an individual that is that should not have been allowed to purchase a weapon you want to guess how many instances they added to this Nick system ten thousand twenty thousand anybody eight million eight million instances where somebody did something that said you shouldn't have been able to purchase a weapon and we were not enforcing the law and that guy killed 20 some odd people and it was preventable because we weren't enforcing the law and we don't celebrate successes like that we're going to get to a point though where enough is enough where we start electing people are going to act like adults and where the adults in the Congress are going to start acting like adults and and it's happened time and time again it happened after the 70s it happened after the 30s there's a brilliant book out on the Gilded Age I strongly recommend it to you the Triumph of William McKinley I think I did a hell of a job with it myself but it's also about how bad the Gilded Age was we we go through these periods in American history and we forget it we forget how bad the 60s and 70s were we forget how bad the 30s were we forget how bad the Gilded Age were when they literally were still fighting the Civil War on the floor of the House of Representatives Thomas Jefferson I'll close by that remember him Declaration of Independence founder of the University of Virginia third president of the United States the guy who brought about the Louisiana Purchase do you remember his election ended in a tie in the Electoral College do you remember that it did and it was a tie not between him and and John Adams the guy he beat back then you voted for the president and the vice president separately you know he voted for one and the number two guy became the vice president and your running mate was supposed to get a couple of his guys to throw away their vote so he'd come in behind you his running mate Aaron Burr failed to tell anybody from New York be sure and throw away your vote so it is a tie in the Electoral College between Aaron Burr and Thomas Jefferson on December 6th of 1800 it's turned over to the House of Representatives it meets in the middle of February of 1801 they meet in the middle of a blinding snowstorm and they vote to elect the president United States one vote per each one of the 16 States nine votes required and Burr is trying to steal the presidency from Thomas Jefferson and on the first ballot is inconclusive and it's only inconclusive because Maryland and South Carolina are deadlocked and Maryland is only deadlocked because one of the democratic congressmen from Maryland who's thought to be dying insisted upon being carried on a stretcher through a blinding blizzard in Washington in order to be installed in the meeting room so he can deadlock Maryland and keep the vote from going to deburr they vote every hour on the hour for the next 24 hours every vote inconclusive they finally say let's vote one time a day and see if we can find a resolution to this on the 37th ballot it breaks by the intervention of an unlikely figure Alexander Hamilton who's written a letter to the to the to the one congressman from Delaware George buried and he says I hate him I hate them both I hate Jefferson I hate Burr but at least Jefferson has character and Burr has none go for the lesser of two evils every time and on the 37th ballot Baird says I'm out of here convinces his compatriots from South Carolina and and uh and and Maryland the Federalists to throw in a towel convinces a colleague from Vermont to walk out to leave the Vermont vote to be cast for Jefferson and on the 37th ballot Thomas Jefferson is elected president of the United States and sworn into office 13 days later now tell me we haven't been screwed up before we have been good Lord no wonder they call him George Bush's brain and for unfortunately I'm so sorry we're out of time Karl Rove thank you so much Carl [Applause]

Channel: Katie Couric

Views: 11,292

Keywords: Katie Couric, Katie, Celebrity, Entertainment

Id: sQtcarOV-Tg

Length: 61min 49sec (3709 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 10 2023