» HELLO, EVERYONE. WELCOME. MY NAME IS LISA WYMORE. AND I AM THE FACULTY ADVISER FOR
BERKELEY ARTS AND DESIGN. HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
CALIFORNIA BERKELEY. WHICH IS ARTS AND DESIGN IS NOW
PART OF THE LARGER DISCOVERY INITIATIVE HERE ON
CAMPUS. I AM WELCOMING YOU TO TONIGHT'S
EVENT JUDITH BUTLER AND MEL CHEN. ON GENDER, PANDEMIC TIME, NEW
TIME? IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE BERKELEY
ART MUSEUM AND PACIFIC FILM ART EXHIBITION ENTITLED NEW
TIME ART AND FEMINISMS IN THE 21ST CENTURY. I'M EXCITED ABOUT THIS MONDAY
SPEAKER SERIES SUPPORTED BY THE OFFICE OF BERKELEY ARTS
AND DESIGN. WHICH CONNECTS AND FORTIFIES
UNITS THROUGHOUT THE BERKELEY CAMPUS AND BEYOND. FUNDS FOR THESE TALKS ARE MADE
POSSIBLE BY A AND D AND PHILANTHROPIC DONATIONS FROM
DONORS. UNIQUE TO THE SPEAKER SERIES IS
THE CONNECTION TO THE COURSE HUMANITIES 20 OFFERED
THROUGH THE DIVISION OF THE ARTS AND HUMANITIES. 50 STUDENTS ARE ENROLLED IN THIS
CLASS AND ATTEND WEEKLY TALKS. WELCOME CLASS. THIS SEMESTER'S THEME IS
PERSEVERANCE, RENEWAL AND REFLECTION. WE RECOGNIZE THAT TONIGHT'S
EVENT IS LOCATED IN THE TERRITORY OF HUICHIN THE
ANCESTRAL LANDS OF THE OHLONE SPEAKING PEOPLES. THE HISTORY OF PROLIFIC ARTISTIC
AND TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENTS IN THIS REGION HAS
BEEN DEPENDENT ON THIS LAND. BERKELEY ARTS AND DESIGN IS
COMMITTED TO SUPPORTING THE SOVEREIGNTY AND ONGOING
STEWARDSHIP OF THIS PLACE BY THE OHLONE'S PEOPLES BY BUILDING
RECIPROCITY WITH TRIBAL ORGANIZERS AND LEADERS. I WILL PASS IT OVER TO MY
ESTEEMED COLLEAGUE CHERRY GOODMAN THE BAMPFA DIRECTOR OF
EDUCATION. » THANK YOU LISA. WELCOME TO THIS DISCUSSION WITH
JUDITH BUTLER AND MEL Y CHEN. NEW TIME ART AND FEMINISMS IN
THE 21ST CENTURY WHICH IS ON VIEW AT BAMPFA THROUGH
JANUARY 30TH. CONVERSATION TITLED GENDER
PANDEMIC TIME, NEW TIME? TAKES IN DEPARTURE AN EARLIER
ONE THAT APPEARS IN THE EXHIBITION CATALOG. UPDATING IN A TRANSFORMATION OF
TIME IN RELATION TO GENDER IN THE INTERIM. NEW TIME WAS ORGANIZED BY SARA
DEQUINZIO. SENIOR CURATOR OF MODERN AND
CONTEMPORARY ART. TOGETHER WITH CURATORIAL
ASSISTANT CLAIR FROST. THE EXHIBITION EXAMINES RECENT
FEMINIST ART THROUGH 8 THEMES. GENDER ALCHEMY WAS HIGHLIGHTED
IN YESTERDAY'S NEW YORK TIMES. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS AN
INSTALLATION SHOT OF THIS SECTION WITH GLIMPSES FROM LEFT
TO RIGHT. NEW TIME PRESENTS OVER 75
ARTISTS AND COLLECTIVES AND SPANS SEVERAL GENERATIONS,
MEDIUMS, GEOGRAPHERS AND POLITICAL SENSIBILITIES. THE EXHIBITION LOOKS EXPANSIVELY
AT DIFFERENT KINDS OF FEMINISM WHEN FEMINISM HAS BEEN
IMBUED WITH CLASS, RACIAL AND GENDER DIFFERENCES. IT LOOKS INCLUSIVELY WITH
GENDER. ARTISTS WHO ARE CISGENDER WOMEN,
TRANS WOMEN, NONBINARY INDIVIDUALS AND EVEN A FEW MEN. NOW TO OUR PRESENTERS. JUDITH BUTLER IS MAXINE ELLIOTT
PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT UC BERKELEY. AND THIS FALL DISTINGUISHED
VISITING PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY AT THE NEW SCHOOL
UNIVERSITY. BUTLER AN INTERNATIONALLY
RENOWNED GENDER THEORIST AND AUTHOR IS INFLUENCED IN THE
FIELD OF POLITICAL -- THEY'RE THE AUTHOR OF MANY
GROUND BREAKING BOOKS SPANNING FROM GENDER TROUBLE,
FEMINISM AND THE SUBVERSION OF IDENTITY IN 1990
TO THE FORCE OF NONVIOLENCE IN 2020. MEL Y CHEN A FORMER STUDENT OF
BUTLER'S IS ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE UC BERKELEY
DEPARTMENT OF GENDER AND WOMEN'S STUDIES AND DIRECTOR FOR
THE CENTER OF SEXUAL CULTURE THEY'RE THE AUTHOR OF
ANIMACIES BIO POLITICS, RACIAL MATTERING AND QUEER
AFFECT. AND ARE COMPLETING A BOOK CALLED
CHEMICAL INTIMACIES ABOUT INTOXICATION ROLE IN THE
INTERANIMATION OF RACE IN THE HISTORIES AND LEGACIES OF
THE TRANSNATIONAL 19TH CENTURY. CHEN HAS WRITTEN ON SLOWNESS,
GESTURE, INHUMANISMS, COGNITIVE ABILITY AND METHOD. THEY'RE PART OF QUEER AND COLOR
ARTS COLLECTIVE IN THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA. MEL AND JUDITH WILL ENGAGE IN A
CONVERSATION FOLLOWED BY TIME FOR QUESTIONS. PLEASE SUBMIT THEM VIA THE Q AND
A BOX. THANK YOU AND NOW MEL AND
JUDITH. » HELLO JUDITH, HELLO EVERYONE. » HEY MEL. » HI. I JUST THOUGHT I'D OPEN WITH
WORDS OF GRATITUDE. I WANTED TO THANK BERKELEY ARTS
AND DESIGN AND THE BERKELEY ART MUSEUM FOR HAVING
US IN THIS SERIES. THANK SARA DEQUINZIO, SHERRY
GOODMAN, AND JUSTINE CASTRO. AND THE ARTISTS IN THE SHOW
MAKING THIS EVENT POSSIBLE. JUDITH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME
TODAY AND ALWAYS. I'M SPEAKING FROM THE UNSEEDED
TERRITORY OF HUICHIN IN OAKLAND CALIFORNIA. WE DIDN'T WANT TO REHASH THE
PUBLIC CONVERSATION WE HAD IN THE CATALOG FOR THE SHOW. INSTEAD WE CHOSE TO DISCUSS
PANDEMIC TIME AS A FOCAL THEME FOR TODAY. IN ASSOCIATION WITH THAT WE'LL
BE TALKING ABOUT A FEW OF THE IMAGES FROM THE SHOW. OH, AND I WANTED TO SELF
DESCRIBE FOR THOSE WHO ARE LISTENING TODAY. I HAVE SHORT HAIR AND GLASSES. I'M WEARING A GREY SHIRT. I'M SITTING IN AN OFFICE
BEDROOM. WITH A BOOK SHELVE TO MY LEFT. AND THE NATURAL LIGHT AT THIS
MOMENT IS WANING. JUDITH. » I'M PLEASED TO BE HERE. I'M WANT TO THANK BAMPFA AND THE
VARIOUS PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT US TOGETHER. IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO SPEAK
WITH MEL AND TO LEARN FROM MEL. I AM SITTING IN A RENTED
APARTMENT IN NEW YORK CITY. AND THE SUN IS LONG GONE. IT IS LATE.
I AM TIRED. BUT HERE I AM. NEW YORK CITY BELONGS TO THE
LENAPE PEOPLE AS YOU KNOW. WE WILL TALK FURTHER ON TODAY
ABOUT DISPOSSESSION AND ITS HISTORICAL REVERBERATIONS. WE HAVE A PROBLEM BEFORE US. HOW DO WE THINK ABOUT TIME? WHAT DOES IT MEAN TOL TALK ABOUT
NEW TIME? IS THERE OLD TIME AND NEW TIME? I KNOW HOW TO TALK ABOUT THE
PAST AND THE FUTURE. I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND THE
KIND OF TIME WE CALL NEW. OR THE KIND OF TIME THAT WE CALL
OLD. THE TITLE OF THE EXHIBITION
THOUGH ASKS US TO CONSIDER NEW TIME IN RELATIONSHIP TO
FEMINISM AND ART. THE TITLE WAS OF COURSE PROVIDED
BEFORE THE PANDEMIC. SO WE MIGHT SAY IT WAS A NEW
TIME PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC TIME. WHICH OF COURSE MAKES THAT NEW
TIME OLD. BUT MAYBE THE TITLE NAMES A TIME
THAT WAS PAST THAT WAS NEWER WAS ANTICIPATED TO BE NEW
FROM A CERTAIN POINT IN TIME AND IS NOW AT A DISTANCE
FROM THE ONE THAT WE NOW LIVE. DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NO
CONNECTION BETWEEN THEM. IT SEEMS TO ME AT THE TIME THE
EXHIBITION WAS CONCEIVED AND I HOPE I'M RIGHT, I MAY BE
WRONG, IT ANTICIPATED A CONTINUITY BETWEEN THE TIME OF
CONCEPTION AND THE TIME OF EXHIBITION. BUT THESE TURN OUT TO BE TWO
VERY DIFFERENT TIMES CAUSED IN PART BY ENORMOUS
DELAYS AS WE KNOW AS BAMPFA CLOSED AND SO MANY ART PROJECTS
WERE PUT ON HOLD. THIS TIME OF NOW OPENS UP --
WHAT HAPPENS IF ONE TIME AND ANOTHER TIME IS NOT THE SAME
AND A GAP OPENS. WHAT DO WE CALL THAT GAP. I'M NOT SURE IT'S NEW. PERHAPS IT'S RECURRENT. WHAT IF IN FACT AS WE SUGGEST
THE NEW TIME IN WHICH WE ARRIVE STILL WITHIN THE PANDEMIC
BUT IN ONE OF ITS VARIATIONS IF NOT VARIANTS WHAT
IF THAT NEW TIME IS ONE IN WHICH ARCHAIC AND LOST FORMS
OF TIME ARE COMING TO LIFE. » SO WE HOLD ON TO THIS QUESTION
ABOUT ARCHAIC RESUMPTIONS AND I THINK IN FURTHER THINKING
WE'RE ALSO KIND OF COMING TO REALIZE THAT WE CAN'T
PREDICT AND CERTAINLY THE CURATOR COULD NOT PREDICT
WHAT TEMPORAL WORLDS THE SHOW WOULD APPEAR INTO. WE'RE ALSO THINKING ABOUT THE
WAYS IN WHICH EVERY BEING IN THE PANDEMIC IS BEING IN TIME
IN ITS OWN WAY. AND SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO MARK
HERE THAT THERE IS NO SINGLE PANDEMIC TIME. THERE ARE ONLY PANDEMIC
TEMPORALITIES WHICH WE MIGHT CHOOSE TO MARK AS SUCH OR BECOME
PALPABLE AS CHARACTERISTIC OF THIS CURRENT
COVID 19 PANDEMIC. AND FOR THE PHRASE NEW TIME OR
MAYBE CALL IT NOT SAME TIME. THE TRAINED CYNIC IN ME ASKS
WHAT'S NEW? WHAT'S NOVEL? AS MANY OF US NOTICE THAT WHAT'S
PRESENTED AS NOVELTY WAS PRESENTED OR SUSTAINED. THOSE WHO LIVE UNDER UNDUE
BURDEN IN THE PANDEMIC SEE THESE UNDUE BURDENS HAPPENING
YET AGAIN WITH STRAINED INTENSITY. IN THE STRAINED ECONOMIC WORLD
OF THE SF BAY AREA THIS WAS EXEMPLIFIED BY AN ARTICLE I
SAW IN THE LOCAL PAPER WHICH ANNOUNCED THAT THE TECH
BROS OF SILICON VALLEY HAD INVENTED CONNECTIVE LIVING. WOW I HAD NO IDEA. I LEARNED THAT THE FLOURISHING
IN THE LAST DECADE OF MUNICIPAL ZONING LAWS TO LIMIT
POOR AND IMMIGRANT FAMILIES FROM HAVING TOO MANY
PEOPLE IN THEIR HOUSEHOLD IS JUDGED IN DIFFERENT TERMS IN
OTHER TEMPORALITIES. THIS GOES TO QUEER AND NONBINARY
AND GAY COLLECTIVES THAT ARE RICH IN HISTORY AND
PRESENT OF THIS PLACE. IF CHANGE IS INTEGRAL TO LIFE
AND NON-LIFE ALIKE THERE ARE NEVER NOT NOVELTIES. WHAT QUANTIFICATION OR THRESHOLD
OR FAILED MEMORY OR ERASURE OF IMMIGRANTS AND BLACK
AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AND PEOPLE OF COLOR, WHAT
LIMITED SCOPE OF MODERNITY MAKES IT POSSIBLE TO IMAGINE AN
ARRIVAL OF THE NEW. I SIT WITH JUDITH'S QUESTION
ABOUT ARCHAIC FORMS. THESE ARE OPEN QUESTIONS AND AS
WE'VE SEEN HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE ONES. » THANK YOU, MEL. WE'RE ALSO TASKED WITH TALKING
ABOUT GENDER AND PANDEMIC TIME. BUT PERHAPS WE SHOULD START BY
TRYING NOT TO MAKE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING THAT GENDER
MEANS ONLY WOMEN. OR THAT WOMEN MEANS ONLY THOSE
ASSIGNED FEMALE AT BIRTH. THE POINT OF COURSE HERE AND IN
THE EXHIBITION AND IN OUR THOUGHT IS NOT SIMPLY TO
EXAMINE REPRESENTATIONS OF WOMEN IN OR OUTSIDE OF PANDEMIC
TIME. NOR DO WE, I THINK, WISH TO
CONSIDER PANDEMIC TIME EXCLUSIVELY ON THE HUMAN AXIS. MAYBE PANDEMIC TIME HAS MOVED
THE HUMAN OFF ITS AXIS IN SOME WAYS THAT WE NEED TO
CONSIDER. ONE QUESTION I HAVE IS WHAT
FORMS OF COMMUNITY HAVE DISSOLVED? AND WHAT KIND HAVE FORMED? DURING THIS TIME. A TIME THAT CONTINUES DESPITE
IT'S VARIATIONS AND VARIANTS. THERE ARE MANY PROCLAMATIONS. THE PANDEMIC IS OVER.
AND THE WORLD IS REOPENED. THESE ARE MANIC DENIALS OF THE
FACT THAT INDEED WE HAVE ONGOING ILLNESS, CONTAGION AND A
LACK OF EFFECTIVE VACCINATION IN DIFFERENT WAYS
THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. VERY MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT
CERTAIN COUNTRIES HAVE NOT SEEN A VACCINATION. OR MAJOR COUNTRIES LIKE NIGERIA,
TANZANIA HAVE SEEN VERY VERY FEW. SOUTH AFRICA AS WELL. IN ANY CASE SOMETIMES AT LEAST
AND HERE I'M THINKING ABOUT THE VISUAL REPRESENTATIONS
WE ARE LOOKING AT TODAY, SOMETIMES WE ONLY COME TO
KNOW WHAT WE CALL A TIME, THE TIME THAT IS OURS OR A
TIME THAT IS PASSED OR A RELATIONSHIP AMONG THOSE TIMES
THROUGH SPATIAL CONFIGURATIONS. INFRASTRUCTURES DESTROYED AND
IMPROVISED. THE NONHUMAN ANIMACIES THAT
THE HUMAN BECOMES BOUND OR IN PROXIMITY TO. NOT GO BACK TO IMAGINING THAT
THERE'S SOME VERSION OF WOMEN'S TIME. OR FOR SOME MARVELOUS REASON
CHINESE WOMEN KNEW IT BEST. THOSE DAYS I THINK ARE OVER. TEMPORALITIES ARE OF COURSE
MULTIPLE AND MANY OF THEM ACT AS IF THEY ARE THE ONLY
POSSIBLE TEMPORALITY WHEN IN FACT THEIR CLAIM TO EXCLUSION
IS AN INSTRUMENT FOR EFFACING OTHER COTERMINOUS
TEMPORALITIES. THE IDEAL OF A MATRIARCHY OF
OLD. AN ORIGINAL MATRIARCHAL POWER,
AN ORIGIN AND PEACEFUL COEXISTENCE ASSOCIATED WITH FEM
NIN PRINCIPLES, THE ASSOCIATION OF FEMININE
PRINCIPLES WITH THE EARTH IS NO LONGER PLAUSIBLE AS AN
IMAGINATION OF OUR TIME, OF THE ORIGIN OF OUR TIME. AND THE ORIGIN TO WHICH WE LONG
TO RETURN. I'M NOT SURE ANY OF US DO WISH
TO RETURN TO THAT TIME. MAYBE SOME DO. MAYBE I'M BEING UNFAIR. THAT LONGING IS NOT SO COMMON IN
THIS TIME. AND YET I CERTAINLY WAS EXPOSED
TO THE LONGING FOR MATRIARCHY AS A YOUNG PERSON AND
SAT IN MANY CONSCIOUSNESS RAISING GROUPS
WHERE THAT WAS ACTIVELY DISCUSSED. PERHAPS WE SHOULD CONSIDER THEM
FIRST CANDICE LYNN'S FAILED MATRIARCHY IN 2008. IT'S A PICTURE THAT READILY
RECALLS FEMINIST ARGUMENTS WE HAVE KNOWN. WONDERING IF WE CAN -- WE CAN
BRING THAT UP. » CAN YOU SEE THAT JUDITH. » YES THANK YOU. » SO THIS IS ONE OF THE WORKS IN
THE SHOW. I'M NOT SURE IF THAT GREEN LINE
IS SHOWING UP. I APOLOGIZE I DON'T KNOW WHY
IT'S THERE. WE WANTED TO FOCUS ON OUR
BEGINNING IMAGE OF A 2008 WORK BY CANDICE LYNN. THIS IS WATER COLOR AND INK ON
PAPER. GIVE AN AUDIO DESCRIPTION. THE COLOR TONES ARE MUTED. THERE ARE DARK INK DRAWINGS OF
TREES ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE OF THE WORK. MANY OF WHICH APPEAR TO BE DEAD. AND THEN A NUMBER OF HUMAN
BEINGS WITH SOME LIGHT TO MEDIUM COLORATION IN THE
BACKGROUND ARE UNPIGMENTED PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT AGES. AND BEHIND THEM A FEW BODIES
HANGING WITH WHAT LOOKS LIKE SPANISH MOSS IT IS POSSIBLE
GESTURE TO LYNCHING IN THE U.S. SOUTH. ALL HUMAN BODIES ARE NAKED. THERE ARE FOREGROUNDED FEMININE
BODIES WITH LONG HAIR. THE CENTRAL ONE IS NEXT TO A
HUGE STONE AND PALMING A STONE ABOUT TO BE PITCHED AT THE
PERSON ON THE LEFT WHO IS ALREADY DUCKING A FIRST
STONE. I WANT TO MARK THAT THESE STONES
ALL BEAR FAIRLY STARK AND ATTENTIVE COLORATION. ONE OF THE HISTORICAL
MATRIARCHAL SOCIETIES AMONG FEMINISTS WHAT JUDITH WAS
POINTING TO. FEMINISTS BANKING ON A MYTH TO
CELEBRATE IS ONE FROM CHINA. THE MOS LOW, AROUND A PEOPLE
FROM AROUND--PROVINCE A VIEWER WOULD WONDER ABOUT THE
WOMEN'S PRESENCE IN THIS WORK AND A LACK OF CLOTHING. A PAST TIME SO PAST OR SO MYTHIC
THAT MATE LINEAL SOCIETY IS DEPICTED RATHER THAN
THAN SOMETHING THAT LIVES ON. THIS IS A REFERENCE TO BATTLES
BETWEEN WHITE FEMINISTS AND FEMINISTS OF COLOR. YOU START TO GET A SENSE THAT
THIS IS A REALLY GOOD JOKE. ONE THAT SOME FEMINISTS MIGHT
NOT FIND FUNNY. THAT'S THE JOKE ABOUT FEMINISM. THERE'S ANOTHER WORK IN THE
EXHIBITION CAIRN 2018 A SCULPTURE BY THE ARTIST ROSE B
SIMPSON. BUT I WANTED TO NOTE THAT
SIMPSON IS SANTA CLARA PUEBLO. AND SPOKEN AT A DIFFERENT EVENT
HERE AT BERKELEY ABOUT MATERIALS SUPPOSEDLY INANIMATE
CERAMICS THAT LISTEN, THAT WITNESS A WAY OF BEING IN
THE WORLD THAT SHE DESCRIBES AS INTUITIVE TO HER
BUT EXTERNALLY RECOGNIZED AS SPIRITUALITY. HER WORK AND HER ACCOUNT OF
MATERIAL WITNESSING INFLUENCE HOW I CAN THINK MORE
EXPANSIVELY ABOUT CANDICE LYNN'S PROMINENT ROCK
HERE. THERE'S REFRACTIVE WORK
HAPPENING AMONG THE PIECES IN THE SHOW. LYNN HERSELF USES NATURAL
MATERIALS IN NEIGHBORING WORKS IN THE SHOW. ANIMATES CERTAIN KINDS OF
CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL INTIMACIES IN HER WORKS. WITH REGARD TO THE STONES WE
COULD TALK ABOUT GEOLOGICAL TIME. A TIME IN WHICH ROCK SEEMED TO
CHANGE THE SCALES THAT DWARF TIMES OF HUMAN LIVES. HUMAN ACTIVITY IS MARKED A
GEOLOGICAL RECORD. SO FOR INSTANCE THE INCREASE IN
CARBON DIOXIDE BEGINNING WITH THE INDUSTRIAL
AGE AND BEYOND NOW INCLUDING THAT OF WHAT WE CALL
CLIMATE CHANGE IS DEPOSITED OR FOSSILIZED INTO
ROCKS IN SEDIMENTARY LAYERS THAT STRATIGRAPHERS CAN
BE REFLECTED IN GEOLOGICAL TIME. ONE WAY TO IMAGINE THIS IS A
SECULAR WITNESSING BY ROCKS OR ROCK FORMED CARBONS OR
ANIMACY IN THE ROCKS. COMBATANTS ARE MERE PARTICIPANTS
IN A MUCH LARGER ACTION. » JUDITH. » THANK YOU, MEL. COULD YOU MAYBE REDUCE THE SIZE
OF THAT PICTURE A LITTLE. WE CAN'T QUITE SEE THE LEFT HAND
FIGURE AS WE SHOULD. » STRANGELY IT'S SHOWING UP AS A
FULL SCREEN FOR ME. » SO MANY INCOMMENSURABILITIES. » I'M GOING TO -- HOLD ON A
SECOND. I'M GOING TO SHARE AND THIS TIME
NOT OPEN UP THE SLIDE SHOW. I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. » IT'S NO PROBLEM. » IS THAT BETTER? » THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU SO MUCH. » OKAY. » SO THIS SCENE, I HAVE TO SAY I
LOVE THIS SCENE. IT DOES STRIKE ME AS A JOKE. IT'S A HISTORICAL REALITY. SOME TRUTH I THINK IS TO BE
FOUND THERE. WE SAY IT'S A JOKE. WE DON'T MEAN IT'S UNTRUE. WE MEAN THAT IT'S EMANATING
TRUTH IN A JOKE FORM. WHAT IS HAPPENING? WELL DISSENSION POSSIBLE FATAL. HAUNTS OF FEMINIST DEBATE. WHAT'S NEW ABOUT THIS IMAGE OF
THE SO CALLED MATRIARCHAL IS THIS LANDSCAPE. THIS IMAGE OF AN ORIGINARY TIME
WHICH IS NOT EXACTLY THE GARDEN OF EDEN. IT'S AN AFFLICTED LANDSCAPE. ONE IN WHICH THE TREES ARE
FADING OR DYING OR DEHYDRATED I'M NOT SURE. AND A STRANGE COMMUNITY IS
CONVENED AS MEL AS POINTED OUT. ONE THAT IS -- ONE THAT BINDS
THE HUMAN FIGURES, THE WOMEN, BINDS THEM UP WITH
ANIMALS AND ROCKS. ROCKS WHICH ARE THROWN. AND ROCKS WHICH AS MEL SUGGESTED
LAY ABOUT WITNESSING THE FIGHT. MAYBE THEY'RE THE CHRONICLERS OF
A CERTAIN KIND. THE IDEAL OF A PEACEABLE ORIGIN. AN ORIGIN IN EQUALITY AND
CONSENSUS, ONE IN WHICH WOMEN RULE IF THAT IS HOW WE VIEW
MATRIARCHY. SEEMS NOT TO BE THE CASE. THEY ARE THROWING ROCKS AT EACH
OTHER. MATRIARCHY CAN BE THE PRINCIPLE
THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE PRESENT IN WOMEN'S COMMUNITIES. SURELY NOT A VARIANT OF ANARCHY
WHERE THE PRINCIPLE IS SET ASIDE. AND NOT THE SAME AS AGONISM OR
ANTAGONISM WHICH IS FAR MORE FAMILIAR. I THINK BOTH OF THEM MORE
FAMILIAR AS MODALITIES OF FEMINIST DEBATE. THE TITLE LETS US KNOW THAT
MATRIARCHY HAS FAILED OR IS FAILING. THAT THE RULE BY WOMEN IS NO
RULE. OR THE LIFE ORGANIZED BY THEIR
PRINCIPLE IS NOT PEACEABLE. IT'S RIFE WITH CONFLICT. SET IN A NATURAL LANDSCAPE. ARGUABLY PRIMITIVIZED FOR
EFFECT. THE OLDER FEMINIST DESIRE TO
RETURN TO A TIME BEFORE MEN RULED. IT DESTROYS THE NOSTALGIA FOR
ANY SUCH TIME. WHAT WE END UP SEEING IS LESS OF
A DEBATE THAN A PRIME EVIL BRAWL. WHO KNOWS IF ANYONE IS SPEAKING
OR ARGUING OR POINTS OF VIEW AT ISSUE. HEAVING STONES IN THE DIRECTION
OF EACH OTHER. AND THE OPEN MOUTHS MAY BE
VOICING CRIES AND GRUNTS AND SHRIEKS AS WE KNOW. IF WE GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING
WE FIND THE WOMEN'S STUDIES DEPARTMENTAL MEETING. STONES ARE THROWN AND PEOPLE
LEAVE IN ANGER. HAPPENS AT ALL SORTS OF
INSTITUTIONS. HERE THE MEDIATORS ARE NOT
CALLED IN. NOWHERE IN SIGHT. AND THE SCENE IS FROZEN. A GARDEN OF EDEN OR A
MATRIARCHAL GARDEN GONE AWRY. THERE ARE 2 POINTS TO UNDERSCORE
AT THIS MOMENT. ONE HAS TO DO WITH TIME. A HOPEFUL AND DILUTED
RELATIONSHIP TO TIME. THE LOST PAST FURNISHES IDEALS
OF A POSSIBLE FUTURE. IN ITS PLACE THE BRUTALIZING
PRESENCE OF FEMINIST DISSENSION. ALL TURN OUT TO BE PART OF THAT
IMAGINED SCENE FROM THE PAST. WE'RE ALLOWED TO BE NEITHER
ARCADIAN, BELIEVING THAT THE PAST CARRIES ALL THE WISDOM
WE NEED IN MOVING FORWARD. NOR PROGRESSIVISTS. INDEED IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO
IMAGINE THAT TIME IS ULTIMATELY PROGRESSIVE. ALL OUR LEGISLATIVES AGENDA
ITEMS WILL BE REALIZED AND CAUSES OF JUSTICE WILL BE
ADVANCED SECURED FOR THE FUTURE. WE CAN HOPE FOR SUCH THINGS. WE CAN STRUGGLE FOR SUCH THINGS
AND DO. WE CANNOT EXACTLY RELY ON SOME
SCHEMA TO PRODUCE THEM FOR SURE IN THE FUTURE. THIS DRIVING FORWARD WITHOUT A
BREAK DOES NOT WORK SO WELL CREATING DESTRUCTION IN ITS
WAKE. DESTROYING THE BODIES OF THOSE
WHOSE LIVES IN THE NAME OF WHICH PROGRESS IS MADE WEAVE
THEM AND I HOPE MEL JOINS ME. WE PRODUCE FAILURE NOT AS AN
INTERRUPTION OF PROGRESS. BUT RATHER A WAY OF LIFE. EITHER A QUEER WAY OF LIFE LIVED
TO THE SIDE OF NORMS. THIS BRINGS ME TO A SECOND POINT
CONCERNING THE WORD FAILURE. NOT EXACTLY THAT MATRIARCHY HAS
FAILED. RATHER THE IDEAL OF MATRIARCHY
IS NO LONGER PLAUSIBLE NO LONGER DESIRABLE. AND FAILURE IS GIVEN A DIFFERENT
VALUE THAT RESONATES WITH ESTABLISHED WORK ON QUEER
FAILURE. THE CRITIQUE OF FUNCTIONALISM. THE VALUE OF THE ERRANT AND
MISTAKEN PATH. THE DEVIATION FROM THE NORM. THE FAILURE TO REPRODUCE. WOMEN'S VIOLENCE TURNS OUT NOT
TO BE A CONTRADICTION IN TERMS NOT AT ALL. WOMEN HAVE NO SPECIAL
RELATIONSHIP TO NONVIOLENCE NOR TO THE EARTH. SO IT SEEMS. THE NATURAL LANDSCAPE
INTERESTINGLY OFFERS ANOTHER CONFIGURATION OF RELATIONALITY. ONE THAT SEEMS TO EMERGE FROM
THE MINIMALS AND THE TREES, THE ANIMALS AND THE
HUMANS. » THANK YOU JUDITH. SO YES AND ON THAT FANTASTICAL
ECOLOGY. THE MURDEROUS GARDEN OF EDEN
WITH A MURDEROUS PAST AND PRESENT BARELY HIDDEN IN
TODAY'S PANDEMIC BATTLES. ON THAT NOTE WE THOUGHT WE WOULD
TURN TO ANOTHER WORK THAT GOT US TALKING AND PERHAPS
ALSO RESONATED WITH QUESTIONS OF QUEER FAILURE. AND THAT IS UNDER GROUNDS. THERE WE ARE. HAND THIS BACK TO YOU JUDITH. » OKAY. TRYING TO THINK IF I CAN READ
THIS. I'LL DO MY BEST. I GUESS I'M GOING TO HAVE TO
PULL UP A DIFFERENT. » OH, YEAH, IT'S NOT READABLE. » NOT READABLE FOR ME. I'M SO SORRY. I THINK THE DOCUMENTS WE HAVE
SHOULD HAVE THE TEXT. » YES. OKAY.
LET'S SEE IF I CAN DO THIS. SORRY I'M HAVING A LITTLE
TROUBLE HERE. » LET ME KNOW IF I CAN HELP. WE HAVE OUR LITTLE SCRIPT. WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW IT. » I WOULD LIKE THAT. I'M NOT SEEING IT HERE. » LET'S SEE. THE TEXT IT'S UNDER WHAT WE'RE
CALLING PART 3 PERRET'S UNDERGROUND. » IT'S IN MY VERSION THAT I -- » OH, OKAY. » YEAH, YEAH. » OKAY. » WHY DON'T YOU READ IT OUT
LOUD, MEL AND THEN I WILL HAVE ACCESS TO IT AND WE'LL BE
ABLE TO DISCUSS IT. » I CAN BEGIN. IF YOU ARE ABLE TO LOCATE YOUR
COPY FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN OR YOU CAN BE THE ONE WHO
INTERRUPTS ME. THAT SOUNDS FUN. » OKAY. » WE THOUGHT WE WOULD READ THIS
TOGETHER. AND KIND OF INTERRUPT IT AS WE
-- AS WE SAW FIT. AS WE FIND IT TO KIND OF TRIGGER
OUR REFLECTIONS ON THE LARGER THEMES OF OUR
CONVERSATION. SO THIS IS A SCREEN PRINT FROM
2007. IN THE RUINS OF THE CONVENTION
CENTER THEY RUN FOR THEIR LIVES LOOKING FOR THE
SPACE WHICH WILL TAKE THEM BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL POSITION. WHEN YOU ROTATE THE HEAD OF THE
SPIDER, THIRD FROM THE LEFT ON THE BLUE LIGHTED PANEL A
DOOR OPENS ON THE INSIDE OF HER HEAD AND SHE
REMEMBERS WHICH SONG TO SING. FERAL CHILDREN WHO SEEM TO HAVE
BEEN HERE FOREVER HAUNT THE UNDERGROUND CAVES BENEATH
THE FLOATING PAVILION. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE SINCE THE
FIRST TIME I CAME HERE I'VE OFTEN TRIED TO ENTER AND
BEEN SCARED SHITLESS BY THEIR MEANINGLESS MOANING. IT STRIKES ME THAT MAY MIGHT BE
HAPPIER THAN WE ARE. THERE'S SOMETHING MINERAL ABOUT
THESE CREATURES WHO HAVE NEVER RECEIVED THE BLESSING
OF INSTRUCTION. OR IS IT ME WHO HAS SIMPLY LOST
MY ABILITY TO WALK UNDERGROUND? AS THOUGH YOU WERE ABOUT TO
DISCLOSE SOME MOMENTOUS AND YET AS IT IS AND HENCE RARELY
UTTERED TRUTH. IN WHICH I HAD LOST GROWING UP
IN THE ANAESTHETIC ATMOSPHERE OF THE CITY. CLEARLY I THOUGHT THIS WAS A LIE
AND ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR TRICKS TRYING TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF MY IMPRESSIONABLE MIND DERANGED BY
SOLITUDE AND ISOLATION. NOW I AM NO LONGER SURE. I WOULD LIKE TO RETURN TO THE
SURFACE. BUT REALIZE ONCE AGAIN IT IS BUT
ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE LABYRINTHS YOU HAVE CONTRIVED. UNDERGROUND BENEATH THE SECOND
HOUSE THEY SAY THERE IS A SECRET WORLD OF CAVES. AND THERE IS WATER OF A SPECIAL
KIND THAT CLENCHES ALL THIRST AND ALSO ALL DESIRE. AND THEY SAY YOU HAVE MADE UP
ALL THESE STORIES TO PLACATE YOUR FOLLOWERS. MACHINE FOR AN INSTANT THAT THE
MEANING OF ALL THE IMAGES COULD BE RESHUFFLED. AND THE KNIFE WOULD MEAN THE
MOTHER AND THE RAT THE SILVER CHAIN. CLEARLY I THOUGHT THIS WAS A LIE
AND ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR TRICKS TRYING TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF MY IMPRESSIONABLE MIND DERANGED BY
SOLITUDE AND ISOLATION. NOW I AM NO LONGER SURE. WHEN YOU ROTATE THE HEAD OF THE
PUPPET A DOOR OPENS ON THE INSIDE OF YOUR HEAD AND YOU
REMEMBER WHICH SONG TO SING. » IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY WORK OF
ART. IT IS AS WE KNOW A -- FROM 2007
AND IT IS A SCREEN PRINT. AND AS FAR AS I COULD
TELL AND I RESEARCHED AS MUCH AS I COULD ON THE INTERNET,
MAI-THU PERET IS THE AUTHOR OF THIS LANGUAGE. SHE CAME UP WITH THIS LANGUAGE. IT IS AS WE CAN SEE A TEXT NOT
FUNCTIONING AS A TEXT. IT'S ON THE WALL TO BE READ
AGAINST ALL WALL. THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY OF
LEAFING THROUGH THE TEXT OF SEEING WHAT CAME BEFORE OR WHAT
COMES LATER. IT STRIKES ME AS INTERESTING
THAT -- THAT THIS WORK COMES TO US AT THIS MOMENT. IT WAS -- I BELIEVE IT BELONGED
TO SF MOMA. AND IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR
SOMETIME. AND YET IT STRIKES ME THAT IT
HAS A PANDEMIC RESONANCE FOR US. I MEAN THE FIRST THING WE LEARN
IS THAT THE -- IS THAT THE -- THE CONFERENCE CENTERS
HAVE BEEN ABANDONED. THAT THEY'RE IN RUINS. THAT THERE ARE NO PEOPLE THERE. THERE ARE NO ACADEMICS DRESSED
UP TRYING TO GET JOBS OR GIVING 12 MINUTE PAPERS ON JAMES
JOYCE. NOBODY IS DOING THAT. AND IN FACT, WE CAN SEE THAT
THERE ARE -- THERE IS THROUGHOUT THIS -- THIS SCREEN
PRINT, BATS, SPIDERS, FERAL CHILDREN. THOSE WHO HAVE LOST THE CAPACITY
TO WALK UNDERGROUND. THOSE WHO -- AND THEN A
NARRATIVE VOICE IT SEEMS WHO IS LONGING TO BE RELIEVED OF CITY
LIFE. CITY LIFE THAT KILLS THE SENSES. ANAESTHETIC AND IS PERHAPS ALSO
LOOKING FOR SOME ORIGINAL SONG OR PERHAPS THE
ORIGINAL POSITION TO WHICH THE ANIMALS WERE LOOKING TO
RETURN AT THE BEGINNING -- AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS TEXT,
THIS PICTURE. THERE'S A OBVIOUS DISORDERING OF
THE HUMAN WORLD. AND PERHAPS ALSO AN INVITATION
TO CONSIDER LIFE NOT ONLY THROUGH THE HUMAN ACCESS
AND FRAME, PERHAPS, MEL, YOU COULD TALK FOR A MOMENT
ABOUT WHETHER WE COULD UNDERSTAND THIS -- THIS ARTWORK
DESPITE ITS AUTHOR'S INTENTIONS AS A QUEER
UNDERGROUND. » I LOVE -- I LOVE THE
IMAGINATION OF THE SPACES THAT ARE CREATED HERE AS QUEER
UNDERGROUND. AND I'M EVEN AS WE'RE READING AT
THIS TIME, I'M SEEING NEW DIMENSIONS OF PANDEMIC. THE FERAL CHILDREN WHO SEEM TO
HAVE BEEN HERE FOREVER WHICH IS I THINK ALREADY LIKE 2
PERVERSIONS OF TIME SITTING. HAUNTING THE UNDERGROUND CAVES. BUT THEY'VE ALSO BECOME QUITE
MINERAL IN QUALITY. THESE CREATURES THAT NEVER
RECEIVED THE BLESSING OF INSTRUCTION. THOSE OF US IN CALIFORNIA BUT
PERHAPS IN ANY STATE IN THE U.S. AND CERTAINLY BEYOND
HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO THE KIND OF FRENZY OF GUARDIANS OF
CHILDREN WHO, YOU KNOW, CAN'T WAIT TO PUT THEM BACK INTO
SCHOOL FOR THE VARIOUS PURPOSES OF INSTRUCTION. SOME OF WHICH ARE DISCIPLINE. THEIR REMOVAL OF FERALITY. THE QUEERNESS COMES OUT THROUGH
ALSO THE MIXED FORMS OF ADDRESS. I CAN'T KEEP TRACK OF WHO IS
YOU, WHO IS ME, WHO IS THE SPIDER, WHO ARE THE BATS, WHO
ARE THE FERAL CHILDREN, WHO ARE THE SHARDS OF CRYSTAL,
WHAT IS GRAVITY AND HOW DOES IT WORK. THERE IS A KIND OF DISILLUSION
OF THE INDIVIDUAL THAT I FIND TO BE A CERTAIN KIND OF
QUEER RELEASE. A CERTAIN KIND OF A QUEER PLACE
OF CERTAIN KINDS OF QUEER FREEDOM. THE AMBIVALENCE OF THE TEXT, I
WONDER WHAT THAT MIGHT HAVE FELT LIKE IN 2007. THERE WAS ANOTHER GLOBAL
ECONOMIC CRISIS AT THAT MOMENT. AND THE OTHER THING FINALLY THAT
I WANTED TO MENTION IS THAT THE ANAESTHETIC ATMOSPHERE
OF THE CITY, ALSO KIND OF LENS THROUGH THE PANDEMIC IN
THE SENSE OF THE CITY BECOMING FOR AT LEAST A NUMBER
OF ELITE A PLACE TO FLEE FOR THE COUNTRY FOR THE FREEDOMS
OF THE SPACES OF THE COUNTRY. SO YEAH, THE AMBIVALENT VALENCE
IS COUNTRY LIFE, THE [O*-URPBD] GROUND AND NARRATIVES
OF DEVELOPMENT, I THINK ALL ARE BEAUTIFULLY
RENDERED FOR ME HERE. » THE SPACES THAT WE THINK TO BE
HUMAN INHABITED TURN OUT TO BE SPACES OF RATS AND THE
BATS AND MAYBE EVEN FERAL CHILDREN. FERAL CHILDREN SUGGESTS THAT
THERE'S SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT BEEN ECLIPSED OF ANIMALITY
OF BECOMING HUMAN. THEY HAVEN'T BECOME PURELY
HUMAN. SO THERE IS A KIND OF QUEER
ALLIANCE THERE WITH THE SPIDERS AND THE BATS FOR SURE. » AND WE WONDER FEDERAL THERE
WERE FERAL CHILDREN IN CANDICE LYNN'S WORK AS WELL. RUNNING THROUGH THE BACKGROUND. » YES. THAT'S TRUE. I MEAN THESE SORRY BOTH IN SOME
WAYS WORKS THAT ARE TALKING ABOUT A VIOLENCE THAT IS
DONE TO THE SENSES AND THE STRUGGLE TO LEARN WHAT KIND
OF DISFIGURATION OF THE HUMAN HAS TO TAKE FORM IN ORDER
FOR SOMEONE, WE DON'T KNOW WHO, TO FIND THEIR SONG. AND THAT IS -- THAT IS A
QUESTION. IT'S NOT THE HUMAN FORM AS IT'S
BEEN ESTABLISHED AND RATIFIED OVER AND AGAINST THE
ANIMAL AND SEPARATE FROM ITS LANDSCAPES. IT'S RATHER THE ANIMATE
DISFIGURATION OF THE HUMAN FORM OR THE RESHUFFLING OF IMAGES
THAT ALLOW THE HUMAN TO BE COUPLED WITH THE MINERAL, THE
BAT, THE SPIDER, FOR FERALNESS. THAT IS THE QUESTION THERE. AND SIMILARLY, I MEAN WE MIGHT
HAVE THOUGHT WHEN TURNING TO CANDICE LYNN THAM A
MATRIARCHAL RETURN WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ABSENCE OF
VIOLENCE. WHAT WE HAVE INSTEAD IS A
MURDEROUS ENCOUNTER AS THE ORIGIN STORY. THEY ARE NOT -- THOSE WOMEN ARE
NOT -- WHEN THEY'RE HEAVING THEIR ROCKS THEY'RE NOT
EXACTLY LOOKING FOR THEIR SONG TO SING. AND YET THERE THEY ARE HEAVING
THOSE STONES AND AS YOU SAY, THE ROCKS ARE ALSO
WATCHING, OCCUPYING A VERY DIFFERENT SCALE OF TIME THAN
HUMAN TIME. I THINK PERHAPS WE COULD SAY AT
LEAST MIDWAY THROUGH OUR PRESENTATION THAT THERE'S
NEVER BEEN ANYTHING MILD ABOUT FEMINISMS IN THE PLURAL. IT'S A LIFE AND DEATH STRUGGLE
FROM THE START. PERHAPS THAT'S ITS HISTORY,
PRESENT AND ITS FUTURE. WE KNOW OF THE VIOLENCE DONE
AGAINST WOMEN AND GENDER QUEER PEOPLE, TRANS PEOPLE,
FEMICIDE, BATTERY, ABANDONMENT, BUT WE ALSO KNOW
THAT THAT VIOLENCE IS NOT JUST EXTERNAL COMING TO US. BUT ALSO REGENERATED WITHIN
SOMETIMES QUITE INVOLUNTARILY. » THE MATERIAL FEMINISMS AND
WHITE FEMINISMS AND SO ON. » WELL THAT IS FOR SURE. AND YOU KNOW, PERHAPS WE CAN
TAKE THIS AS WELL AS A CAUTIONARY NOTE WHEN WE THINK
ABOUT FEMINISM IN THE 21ST CENTURY. LET US NOT MAKE A MON LITHE OF
THAT. IT'S HARD TO EVEN SAY THAT. IT'S ONE THING TO SAY THERE'S
FEMINISM IN THE 21ST CENTURY. THEN THE COMPONENT OF RACE,
SEXUALITY, THE COMPONENT OF CLASS AS PART OF THAT FEMINISM. WHY WOULD FEMINISM BE THE
UMBRELLA TERM FOR THAT. MAYBE FEMINISM BREAKS APART BY
VIRTUE OF ITS OWN VIOLENCES AND WHAT IT ENCOUNTERS
IN THE WORLD. BUT ALSO BECAUSE IT'S IN
ALLIANCE WITH A NUMBER OF SOCIAL MOVEMENTS THAT MAY OR MAY
NOT CALL THEMSELVES FEMINISM. THEY NOT BE THE ONLY WORD. IF WE WANT FEMINISM TO BE THE
UMBRELLA TERM WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT FUNCTIONING
IN A FORM OF CULTURAL IMPERIALISM MILD OR VICIOUS. » THE RISK IS THAT A SINGULAR
FEMINISM RISKS GREAT VIOLENCE. AND WE ALWAYS HAVE TO BE MINDFUL
OF THIS. » I THINK SO. IT HAS TO BE ONE WORD AMONG
MANY. IT CAN'T BE THE ONLY WORD, FINAL
WORD, OR FIRST WORD. I THINK PERHAPS WE COULD ALSO
THINK A BIT ABOUT THE PANDEMIC IN TERMS OF -- IN TERMS
OF THE INTERSECTIONS WE'VE BEEN SPEAKING ABOUT. WE KNOW THAT THE PANDEMIC HAS
BEEN PRESENTED AS A DISEASE OF THE INTERCONNECTED
WORLD, EXPOSING, ILLUMINATING A GLOBAL
INTERDEPENDENCY OR INTERCONNECTION THAT IS
INEVITABLE NO MATTER HOW STRONG THE NATIONALISMS ARE, NO MATTER
HOW STRONG THE RACISMS ARE. THERE IS AN INTERCONNECTEDNESS
THAT UNDERCUTS THAT DIVISION. IT'S AN INTERCONNECTEDNESS THAT
COMMUNICATES THE VIRUS. THAT VIRUS ALSO ILLUMINATES AN
INTERCONNECTEDNESS THAT IS NOT RESTRICTED TO THE VIRUS. MAYBE ALSO WE CAN THINK ABOUT
THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HUMAN AND NONHUMAN WORLDS IN THE
WAY THAT -- THAT MIGHT TOO SUGGEST THE BATS. YOU SUGGESTED ACTUALLY. WE CAN THINK OF THE WET MARKETS
OF CHINA AS COMMUNICATORS OR VECTORS OF THE
VIRUS SHOWING THIS DEEP CONNECTION BETWEEN HUMAN AND
ANIMAL. » YEAH, THE WET MARKETS, RIGHT,
THEY SPEAK TO INTERCONNECTEDNESS. THEY ALSO SPEAK TO A KIND OF
HIERARCHICAL ROLLS BETWEEN CONSUMING HUMANS AND ANIMALS WHO
WILL BE EATEN OR USED FOR OTHER PURPOSES. I'M ALSO THINKING ABOUT IF WE'RE
DESCRIBING THE PANDEMIC AS A DISEASE OF GLOBAL
INTERCONNECTION, WE SHOULD RECOGNIZE THE PRIMARY
MOVER OF THAT FORM OF INTERCONNECTION WHICH IS GLOBAL
CAPITALISM AS OPPOSED TO THE DIAS PORAS THAT WE LIVE
WITH WITH. THE INTERCONNECTIONS OF
INDIGENOUS LIFE. THE INTERDEPENDENCIES THAT ARE
VOCAL TO LIFE WHEREVER YOU MIGHT LOOK. SO THE INTERCONNECTEDNESS CAN
SOMETIMES OCCLUDE FORMS OF INTERDEPENDENCY. I THINK WE'RE SEEING THAT IN THE
FAIRLY, THE TROUBLING APPROACHES TO HEALTHCARE TO
MEDICAL REMEDY FOR COVID, TO VACCINATION, TO EVEN
QUARANTINE AND ISOLATION. » THAT SEEMS -- THAT SEEMS VERY
TRUE. I WONDER IF WE COULD TALKING
ABOUT GLOBAL ISSUES TURN TO LIZ LARNER'S PIECE FROM 2019. » SURE. » WHICH WE -- WE REFER TO AS THE
GREEN WOMAN. » THE GREEN WOMAN. » THAT IS NOT. YEAH, THERE'S GREEN WOMAN. THIS IS A PIECE FROM 2019. AND THE TITLE IS YOU MIGHT HAVE
TO LIVE LIKE A REFUGEE. MEL, DO YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE
THIS TO US. » SEE LET ME -- LET ME GET TO
THAT. YOUR DOING SOME INVISIBLE TIME
MANAGEMENT, JUDITH, THANK YOU SO MUCH. HERE WE HAVE A GARISH GREEN
FEMININE PERSON IN A DRESS. WHAT THIS DOESN'T SHOW IS THAT
THE OBJECT IS ABOUT 8 INCHES HIGH. WHICH IS A RELATIVELY SMALL
SCALE FOR THE SHOW. MAYBE THE SMALLEST SCALE OF THE
PIECES. IT'S MOUNTED ON THE END OF THE
WALL DIVIDER BETWEEN 2 ROOMS. IT'S POSITIONED IN FLIGHT TOWARD
THAT WALL DIVIDER WITH THE HEAD TURNED TO THE RIGHT
PERHAPS LOOKING BACK. AND THE SCULPTURE IS MOUNTED
BETWEEN 5 AND 6 FEET HIGH. I DIDN'T VERIFY THIS. IN PERSON IT FELT LIKE THAT
HEIGHT. WHICH MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT BE EYE
LEVEL DEPENDING ON WHERE THE OBSERVER IS STATIONED. YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LIVE LIKE A
REFUGEE. IS A CITATION OF TOM PETTY AND
THE HEARTBREAKERS. YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LIVE LIKE A
REFUGEE. » BEAUTIFUL. I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE GOING TO
DO THAT. THAT'S SO GOOD. » I'M JUST FEELING IT.
FEELING IT. » ALL RIGHT. » DID YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO THE
PETINA ON THE PIECE? » I MEAN IT'S ODD. THE WOMAN IS GREEN. AND WE READ IN THE CURATORIAL
COMMENTS THAT PERHAPS THAT'S THE OXIDATION OF BRONZE,
THE KIND THAT YOU FIND ON THE STATUE OF LIBERTY. PERHAPS THIS IS LIBERTY, THE
TRADITION OF LIBERTY BEING OXIDIZED OR RUINED. BUT GREEN IS ALSO STRANGE. I MEAN SHE'S NOT WHITE, SHE'S
NOT BLACK, SHE'S NOT BROWN. WHAT IS SHE EXACTLY? IS THIS A POST RACIAL MOMENT? ARE WE GREEN WASHING RACE
PERHAPS? IT IS GREEN MAYBE IN
RELATIONSHIP TO CLIMATE DESTRUCTION. MAYBE SHE'S A GREEN PARTY
ADVOCATE. BUT I THINK THAT IT IS A BIT
DISTURBING SINCE SHE'S CERTAIN UPON CLOSER INSPECTIONS
LOOKS LIKE SHE'S PROBABLY A CIS WHITE WOMAN WHO
IS RUNNING AND APPARENTLY NOT EVER HAD TO THINK
ABOUT THE IDEA OF BEING A REFUGEE BECAUSE SHE HAS
BEEN SETTLED IN PLACE FOR A VERY LONG TIME. THE TITLE AND ALTHOUGH PERHAPS
AN IRONIC CITATION. I'M OPEN TO THAT. YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LIVE LIKE A
REFUGEE. THAT SENTENCE COULD ONLY
BE UTTERED TO SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER CONSIDERED SHE MIGHT HAVE
TO LIVE LIKE A REFUGEE. WE COULD SAY CLIMATE DESTRUCTION
IS GOING TO MAKE REFUGEES OF ALL. TRUE.
THAT'S RIGHT. WHO IS THE ADDRESSEE. IT MUST BE A MUSEUM GOER WHO IS
UNDERSTOOD TO BE I DON'T KNOW PROPERTIED OR SETTLED
OR ECONOMICALLY ENFRANCHISED IN SUCH A WAY. RACIALLY PRIVILEGED IN SUCH A
WAY THAT BEING A REFUGEE IS SOMETHING OTHER PEOPLE ARE OR
HAVE BEEN OR WILL BECOME BUT NOT ME. AND THERE'S SOMETHING DISTURBING
I THINK THAT AS AN ADDRESS. WHY IS THIS WORK OF ART BEING
MADE FOR THE BOURGEOISIE WHO CANNOT EVER IMAGINE
SUFFERING MIGRATION OR DISPOSSESSION. IT ATTRACTS ITS POTENTIAL
AUDIENCE IN A WAY THAT'S DISTURBING. » I CONFESS I WANTED TO RUN FROM
THIS WORK, THE MINUTE I SAW IT. I WANTED TO RUN FROM THE RUNNING
WOMAN. AND I THINK THAT YEAH, IT -- IT
DOES IN SOME WAYS TOO LITTLE WITH THE NOTION OF THE
REFUGEE. AND SUSPENDS IT AS A KIND OF
NON-ANIMATE METAPHOR. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE LIVE
LIKE RATHER THAN BE. YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LIVE LIKE A
REFUGEE. WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO LIVE LIKE A
REFUGEE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. YOU MIGHT HAVE TO BE A REFUGEE
IS DIFFERENT CLAIM OR DIFFERENT POSSIBILITY. SO THE REMOTENESS OF THESE
POSSIBILITIES DISTURBS ME TOO. IT SUGGESTS TO ME, RIGHT, THAT
GREEN IN THIS CASE DOES STAND FOR WHITE MAYBE ALSO OF
WHITE FEMINISM. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE
BRING THIS INTO CONVERSATION WITH OTHER WORKS IN
THE SHOW, AS WELL AS OTHER WORKS BEYOND THE SHOW, YOU
KNOW, WE ARE FORCED TO ASK CERTAIN KINDS OF CRITICAL
QUESTIONS OF FOR ME YOU COULD CALL A WHEN COGNITIVE
ACHIEVEMENT OF THIS PIECE. TO CALCULATE THE SIMILE OF
LIVING LIKE A REFUGEE. IT'S A WHEN COGNITIVE
ACHIEVEMENT. GIVEN THE VERY RECENT FOR LARNER
2019 WAS IN THE WAKE OF THE XENOPHOBIC EUROPEAN
RECEPTION OF REFUGEES FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. AMONG THEM AFGHAN REFUGEES FROM
AN ONGOING WAR WHICH THE U.S. INITIATED 20 YEARS AGO
AND REITERATING IN VARIOUS WAYS TODAY. AND I THINK MAYBE YOU WANTED TO
MENTION SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING IN TEXAS TODAY. » YES, I MEAN. IT DOES STRIKE ME THAT, YOU
KNOW, WE DO NEED TO THINK ABOUT CLIMATE DESTRUCTION AND
THE WAYS IN WHICH FORCED MIGRATION IS HAPPENING. WE CAN ALSO ASK FOR WHOM HAS
THAT ALREADY HAPPENED, EITHER BECAUSE OF CLIMATE
DESTRUCTION OR ENVIRONMENTAL TOXINS OR WAR ZONES WHERE THE
SOIL IS COMPLETELY DESTROYED. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO LEAVE
THEIR COUNTRIES BECAUSE OF VIOLENCE OR CENSORSHIP OR
MILITARY PERSECUTION. BUT ALSO BECAUSE THE CONDITIONS
OF LIFE HAVE BEEN SO MASSIVELY DESTROYED THROUGH
EXTRACTIVISM OR BOMBING THAT LIFE IS NOT LIVABLE ON
THAT SOIL. WHAT WOULD IT MEAN TO BROADEN
THIS OUT SO THAT WE COULD TALK ABOUT FORCED MIGRATION
REFUGEES IN LIGHT OF COLONIAL VIOLENCE AND IT'S
AFTERMATH, DISPOSSESSION, EXTRACTIVISM, CONTINUING
CAPITALIST COMPLICITY WITH COLONIAL DEVASTATION? I THINK THAT WE -- WE'VE NOT YET
-- WE'RE NOT YET OPERATING IN A LARGE ENOUGH
FRAME WORK TO TAKE ALL THOSE THINGS INTO ACCOUNT. SO THIS FIGURE SEEMS -- SEEMS
NARROW. SEEMS SOMEHOW NOT QUITE THERE. AND YES, WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE
AT LEAST 10,000 PEOPLE HUDDLED UNDER A BRIDGE IN SOUTH
OF THE TEXAS BORDER WHO ARE TRYING TO EXERCISE THEIR
INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS TO BE CONSIDERED AS REFUGEES AND BE
ELIGIBLE FOR ASYLUM. AND THEY ARE PUSHED BACK AND
FORCED TO LIVE -- LIVE THERE UNDER THE BRIDGE. THE BRIDGE BECOMES THEIR ROOF. THEY'RE NOT FLEEING. THEY HAVE FLED. THEY HAVE BEEN MOVING NOW FOR
MONTHS IF NOT YEARS. MANY OF WHOM FROM HAITI. AND -- AND WHERE IS THEIR
SHELTER? WE TALK ABOUT GENDER AND THE
DOMESTIC SPHERE. THAT BRIDGE IS THE SHELTER. THAT BRIDGE IS THE SHELTER. THAT BRIDGE IS THE ROOF. WHAT IS IT LIKE FOR MEN, WOMEN
AND CHILDREN TO BE UNDERNEATH THAT ROOF AND CALLING
THAT SPACE OF INHABITATION AND MAKING THAT A
SPACE OF COMMON INHABITATION. IT'S PART OF WHAT WE NEED TO
THINK ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT NEW TIME OR OUR TIME. OR THE TIME OF REFUGEES. THE TIME OF MIGRANTS WHO ARE
SYSTEMATICALLY DEPRIVED OF LEGAL RIGHTS, MOVEMENT, AND
TRANSFER AND CONSIDERATION BY LEGAL REGIMES. THEY'RE KEPT WAITING IN SCENES
OF DETENTION. SOMETIMES DETENTION CENTERS. SOMETIMES JUST OUT THERE UNDER
THE ROOF OR BY -- BY THE WALL OR BY THE FENCE. OR AT THE GATE. SO THAT SEEMS EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT. I DID NOTICE THAT IN THE CATALOG
IN THE INTRODUCTION, THERE WAS THIS LINE, WE ARE
ARTISTS, BUT EVERYONE WHO WORKS FOR THE EXPANSION OF SPACE
EVEN IF IT IS JUST MENTAL SPACE IS AN ARTIST. THAT IS BEAUTIFUL. CAN BE IMPERIAL EXPANSION. WE DON'T WANT THAT. IT CAN BE THE EXPANSION OF SPACE
FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO EXERCISE THE FUNDAMENTAL
CAPACITIES FOR MOVEMENT AND LIFE FORMS, HUMAN AND OTHERWISE
TO BE ABLE TO FLOURISH AND ABLE TO EXPAND. IN THAT SENSE I'M ALL FOR IT. » I'M ALL FOR IT. THE POINT THAT YOU'RE MAKING
JUDITH. AND THE POINT WE'RE TALKING TO
WITH THIS IMAGE WHICH IS GETTING OUR CRITICAL WEIGHT. IT IS A HELPFUL EXAMPLE ABOUT
MAYBE WHAT NOT TO DO ABOUT NEW TIME. IF THE CONDITION IS SET FOR THE
FUTURE. AND IF THERE HAVE BEEN THOSE
SUCH CONDITIONS IN THE PAST THEN WE'RE WORKING ON
FORGOTTEN AND ERASED TIME. TIME IN WHICH THE ADDRESSEE OF
THIS WORK WHO MIGHT WELL BE A SETTLED U.S. RESIDENT HAS
PLAYED A ROLE IN DISPLACEMENT AND, YOU KNOW, THE
FORMS OF VIOLENCE THAT YOU ALREADY DESCRIBED. AND THAT DOUBLES THE HARM IN
SOME WAYS THAT IS BEING DONE TO, YOU KNOW, THE HAITIAN
PEOPLE AT THE BORDER. I COULDN'T HELP BUT NOTICE THAT
ONE OF THE EXCUSES FOR BEGINNING TO DEPORT HAITIANS
FROM THE BORDER. SOME OF THESE ARE DIASPORA
LOCATIONS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN IN HAITI FOR SOMETIME. THE DEPORTATIONS ARE BEING
DESCRIBED AS NECESSARY IN PART BECAUSE OF QUOTE UNQUOTE
UNSANITARY CONDITIONS UNDER THE BRIDGE. THIS TO SEE IS A TROUBLING
DEPLOYMENT OF WHAT FEEL LIKE COLONIAL TACTICS OF DISTANCING
AND OF DIRTYING, WHICH HAVE A VERY LONG HISTORY IN THE
COLONIAL HISTORY OF THE U.S. FOR ME THIS IS A REALLY
TROUBLING COMBINATION OF EVENTS. ARNOLD THE BORDER AND BEYOND. » UH-HUH. I -- I SEE THAT WE HAVE ABOUT 29
MINUTES BEFORE WE END AND WE WANTED TO TAKE QUESTIONS
FOR ABOUT 20 OF THOSE. SO PERHAPS WE CAN -- IF YOU
AGREE, MEL, WE COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE
OTHER PAINTINGS BRIEFLY AND MAYBE FIND A WAY TO CONCLUDE
FROM THERE. » SOUNDS GREAT. » I MEAN I'M ALSO AWARE THAT IN
THE CATALOG WHICH IS A VERY INTERESTING BOOK THERE IS A
GREAT DISCUSSION WITH HORTENSE SPILLERS ABOUT HER
ESSAY MOMMA'S BABY PAPA'S MAYBE. THE PUBLICATION OF WHICH I
REMEMBER VERY CLEARLY. AND -- AND SHE HORTENSE THERE
SAYS FEMINISM HAS BECOME PART OF THE CURRICULUM. AND SHE WORRIES THAT THAT'S A
WOEFUL DOMESTICATION OF WHAT USED TO BE A MOVEMENT AND
WE ALSO SEE THAT SOMETIMES FEMINIST SCHOLARSHIP
REMOVES ITSELF FROM MOVEMENT DISCOURSE. THIS IS ACADEMIC FEMINISM. THEY MOVE DIFFERENTLY AND WRITE
DIFFERENTLY. MERGE BETWEEN FEMINISM AS AN
ACADEMIC ENTERPRISE AND AS A SOCIAL MOVEMENT. AND HORTENSE WRITES, WELL, THERE
ARE WOMAN IN TODAY WHO WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR
MOVEMENT. IT WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY WITH
DISCIPLINES. AND THAT'S A DIFFERENT ANIMAL
FROM THE MOVEMENT FROM THE POL EMICS THAT COME OUT OF
JAIL TIME AND CONFRONTING THE POLICE. WHAT FEMINISM HAS BECOME IS A
CURRICULAR OBJECT THAT IN THE LIVING MEMORY OF ONE OF ITS
GENERATIONS HAS A DIFFERENT SOURCE. A MOVEMENT COMPONENT. SHE SAYS ANOTHER THING THAT I
THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT. PEOPLE COME AT HER AND SAY
GENDER, FEMINISM MAYBE IT'S NOT IMPORTANT. WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT
IMPERIALISM. WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT SOME
OTHER BROAD FRAME WORK. AND SHE SAYS, LOOK, SOMETIMES IF
YOU'RE COMING TO ME AND WANT TO TALK ABOUT
IMPERIALISM AND WANT TO STUFF GENDER INTO THAT. MAYBE WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME
WITH IMPERIALISM YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT GENDER. AND YOU DON'T PARTICULARLY WANT
TO TALK ABOUT BLACK WOMEN. WHATEVER YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT
IN THE WORLD YOU HAVE TO BE TALKING ABOUT BLACK WOMEN. THERE IS NO SUBJECT THAT YOU CAN
SPEAK ANY IN THE MODERN WORLD WHERE YOU WILL NOT
HAVE TO TALK ABOUT AFRICAN WOMEN AND NEW WORLD
AFRICAN WOMEN. SHE ADDS BUT NO ONE WANTS TO
ADDRESS THEM. I'M WONDERING ABOUT THIS GREEN
WOMAN. MAYBE THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF NOT
WANTING TO ADDRESS THEM. AND YET SPEAKING RACE AT THE
SAME TIME. SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO
ADD SOMETHING TO THAT, MEL. » I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING UP
THIS POINT. I FEEL LIKE I'M RUNNING OUT OF
TIME. BUT I HAD WRITTEN DOWN A QUOTE
FROM ZACKIA JACKSON'S RECENT BOOK BECOMING HUMAN THAT
I THOUGHT WOULD RESPOND TO YOUR IDENTIFICATION --
ACTUALLY YOU DIDN'T SPEAK TO IT. BUT THE QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW,
HOW PRIMARY RACIALIZATION MIGHT. WHAT KIND OF PRIMARY ROLE
GENDERED RACIALIZATION MIGHT HAVE TO PLAY FOR PAPA'S MAYBE --
SORRY MAMA'S MAYBE PAPA'S MAYBE. ZACKIA WRITES TO THE EXTENT THAT
BLACKNESS IS AN IDENTITY. THAT IDENTITY IS NOT COMPLETE IN
ITSELF. IT POINTS TO A REVOLVING
MULTI-SCALAR FIELD OF INTRA-ACTING SYSTEMS. HUMAN AND NOT HUMAN. NOT A DISCRETE ENTITY OR
COMPOUND. THE STRUCTURE OF BLACKNESS MAY
ASSUME A SIGNIFICANT COHERENCE ANTI-BLACKNESS HAS
ENJOYED A REMARKABLY STABLE TEA LOSS AND PREMATURE
DEATH. YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO SHARE
THAT AS A KIND OF RESPONSE TO -- TO WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP. » GREAT. » I ALSO THOUGHT MAYBE WE COULD
-- WE SORT OF PROMISED TO TALK ABOUT QUEER CRIP AND
TRANS TIME. WE WROTE A LOT ABOUT THIS. WE AGAIN HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME IN
RELATION TO THOSE TOPICS. SO I DON'T KNOW I'M FEELING
RESPONSIBLE, JUDITH. » THAT'S OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU KNOW RESPONSIBLE
TO THOSE TOPICS. BE RESPONSIBLE TO THOSE TOPICS. THAT'S OKAY. » MAYBE NOT. » I THINK IT'S CENTRAL. » UP TO YOU. » IT IS CENTRAL. AND I THINK MAYBE THE MOST
SIGNIFICANT POINT HERE IS THAT SINGLE ISSUE POLITICAL
MOVEMENTS OCCLUDE THE MASSIVE INTERSECTIONALITIES THAT
ARE ALREADY HERE. AND I WOULD IDENTIFY QUEER,
TRANS AND CRYPT TIME AS PREVALENT AND PRESENT IN WAYS
THAT DEFY THE KINDS OF ANALYSIS THAT COME OUT OF TOP
DOWN SINGLE ISSUE POLITICAL IMAGINATIONS. AND I WANTED TO SPEAK TO THE
BEAUTIFUL COLLISIONS OF QUEER TRANS AND CRIP BEING HERE
IN OAKLAND CALIFORNIA. BEING IN COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE
HAD TO DEFY THE MAJORITARIAN IMAGINATIONS THAT
ARE MOST ALIGNED WITH ALLOPATHIC MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL
COMPLEX. AND TURN MORE TOWARD THE FORMS
OF RECOGNITION THAT WE HAVE AMONG OURSELVES AND THE
KINDS OF MUTUAL CARE, SOMETIMES REALIZED AS WHAT WE
CALL MUTUAL AID IN PANDEMIC TIME. AND SOMEHOW THAT FELT IMPORTANT
TO REGISTER. THESE ARE NOT MARKED -- THEY
BECOME MARKED UNDER CERTAIN REGIMES OF IMAGINATION
FOR THE PANDEMIC. I THINK IN FACT WE NEED TO
REVERSE THAT SCALE. NEED TO BE THINKING OF THE
PREVALENCE OF THE UNDERGROUND IN WHICH THESE WAYS
OF BEING WITH ARE IN FACT EVERYWHERE. » I THINK IT'S TRUE. AND PERHAPS PANDEMIC TIME HAS
ALSO MADE CLEAR TO US THE IMPORTANCE OF INFRASTRUCTURES OF
CARE. CARE NOT JUST AS A SUBJECTIVE
DISPOSITION OR ORIENTATION. CARE NOT JUST AS A MATERNAL
ETHICS. BUT CARE AS A -- AS A DEMOCRAT
-- A RADICAL DEMOCRATIC INFRASTRUCTURE TO WHICH EVERYONE
SHOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF ACCESS AND BE ABLE TO HELP
REPRODUCE IN WHATEVER WAYS ARE POSSIBLE. I'M AWARE THAT THE CARE
MANIFESTO THAT CAME OUT OF THE UK TALKS ABOUT THE
DEDOMESTICATION OF CARE. THE FACT IS THAT SO MANY PEOPLE
HAVE BEEN RELIANT ON PUBLIC AND SOCIAL SERVICES IN
ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH SOME OF THE VERY FUNDAMENTAL ACTIONS
OF LIFE. GETTING OUT INTO THE STREET OR
TO FOOD SOURCES OR TO MEDICAL SOURCES. OR FINDING SOCIALITY. THERE ARE TECHNOLOGIES AND
INFRASTRUCTURES THAT MAKE MOVEMENT POSSIBLE AND MAKE IT
POSSIBLE IN A SAFE WAY. THE REST OF THE WORLD IS
CATCHING UP WITH WHAT DISABILITY THEORISTS AND
ACTIVISTS HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR A VERY LONG TIME. » AND ARE ACTING AND HAVE BEEN
ACTING ON AND CANNOT WAIT TO ACT ON. » YES. » NOT GOING TO WAIT UNTIL THE
END OF QUARANTINE TO ACTIVATE THESE NETWORKS OR
REANIMATE THEM OR STRENGTHEN THEM. » THAT SEEMS RIGHT. AND I THINK THERE'S SOME --
THERE'S A STRONG STREAK OF ANTI-CAPITALISM IN THIS IDEA OF
A RADICAL DEMOCRATIC COMMITMENT TO THE
INFRASTRUCTURES OF CARE. EVERYONE AND ANYONE SHOULD BE
PART OF A CARE NETWORK. WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE DISABLED
NOW, BUT WE WILL BE. AND ALMOST -- ALMOST CERTAINLY. OR IT MAY BE THAT THE IDEALS OF
ABILITY HAVE PRECISELY BEEN THE ONES THAT HAVE MADE US
MISUNDERSTAND HUMAN VULNERABILITY DEPENDENCY AND THE
CONDITIONS OF MOBILITY AND AGENCY. THE CONDITIONS OF THE WORLD, THE
PUBLIC CONDITIONS THAT WE NEED IN ORDER TO MOVE THROUGH
AS WELL. TO BREATHE TO BREATHE WELL. WE ALL ARE AWARE WE NEED OUR
ENVIRONMENTS TO BE SAFE. WE NEED OUR ENVIRONMENTS TO BE
ONES IN WHICH WE CAN BREATHE. BECOME CLOSE TO ONE ANOTHER. WITHOUT BEING IMPERILED OR
IMPERILING OTHERS. WE BELIEVE ARE SLOWING DOWN IN
ORDER TO THINK MORE DELIBERATELY ABOUT WHERE WE DO
HARM OR WHERE WE OFFER CARE OR SOLICITUDE OR SUPPORT. THIS IS A SLOWING DOWN OF AN
ACCELERATED ECONOMY. IT'S A SLOWING DOWN OF LIFE. MANY LAMENTS ABOUT IT. IT OPENS UP A DIFFERENT WAY OF
UNDERSTANDING THE WORLD. SO MAYBE THIS NON-MARKET DRIVEN
FORM OF TEMPORALITY IS PART OF OUR NEW TIME OR OUR
PANDEMIC TIME. AND MAYBE ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN
WHO HAVE CARRIED THE BURDEN OF CARE SO
DISPROPORTIONATELY IT'S THAT
CARE BE A PART OF A INTERDEPENDENCY. A GLOBALLY SHARED WAY OF LIFE. » AND AN INTENSIFIED
SPACIOUSNESS IF NOT OCCUPIED
SPACE OR TIME BUT SPACIOUSNESS FOR
TIME THAT ALLOWS OTHER NON-CAPITALISTIC FORMS OF CARE
TO FLOURISH. » YES. THANK YOU, MEL. » THANK YOU SO MUCH, JUDITH. » SHOULD WE OPEN UP OUR
CONVERSATION. » ABSOLUTELY. THERE WAS SO MUCH MORE WE WANTED
TO TALK ABOUT. » I KNOW. » DO PART 2 SOMETIME. » SO WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS
HERE. ONE IS MOVINGS BY -- MOVING
SLIGHTLY BEYOND WORKS EXPLORED IN TODAY'S PRESENTATION
WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE RELATIONS OF NOTIONS OF SPACE
BETWEEN PANDEMIC TIME. SPACE AND TIME SLASH TEMPORALITY
ARE INTERRELATED. PANDEMIC TIME HAS CHANGED SPACE. WHAT KINDS OF SPACES ARE
AVAILABLE TO WHICH PEOPLE AND WHY. AND HOW CAPITALISM IMPACTED
THESE NOTIONS OF SPACE. » DO YOU WANT TO. » MENT TO JUMP IN. » YEAH. » I MEAN I THINK -- I THINK THAT
IT'S A VERY FINE QUESTION. AND IT'S A DRIVING QUESTION FOR
WHAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW. THERE'S NO QUESTION IN MY MIND. I THINK THAT WE ARE IN THE MIDST
OF RETHINKING WHAT IS PUBLIC AND WHAT IS PRIVATE. AND WHAT IS THE POOREST
CHARACTER OF THAT RELATIONSHIP. EVEN FOR THOSE WHO DID HAVE
HOMES AND SHELTERS TO WHICH THEY COULD RETURN AND ACTUALLY
COMPLY WITH LOCKDOWN ORDERS. THEY WERE DEPENDENT ON PEOPLE
LEAVING THEIR HOMES AND DELIVERING GROCERIES OR
DELIVERING MEDICINES AND SO PUTTING THEMSELVES AT RISK. WE SAW THAT MANY PEOPLE DID NOT
HAVE THE ECONOMIC CAPACITY TO OBEY A LOCKDOWN
ORDER. THEY HAD TO GO OUT AND WORK. THEY HAD TO IMPERIL THEMSELVES
IN ORDER TO MAKE A WAGE OR TO SUPPLY -- TO KEEP A RENT. TO KEEP A RENT PAID. AND I THINK THAT THAT IS A
HIDEOUS CHOICE. THAT SO MANY PEOPLE HAD TO MAKE
AND CONTINUE TO HAVE TO MAKE. WHERE THEY MUST WORK UNDER
DANGEROUS CONDITIONS. BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY WILL NOT
BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR LIFE. AND YET BY WORKING UNDER
DANGEROUS CONDITIONS THEY ARE IMPERILING THEIR LIVES AND VERY
POSSIBLY THE LIVES OF OTHERS. YOU KNOW, WE SAW THIS IN MAJOR
CORPORATIONS. WE SAW THIS IN MEAT PACKING
INDUSTRIES. WE SAW THIS AT AMAZON. IT RECALLS WHAT MARX WAS SAYING
ABOUT CAPITALISM IN EARLY MANUSCRIPTS. THE WORKER GOES TO WORK TO MAKE
A LIVING. EXCEPT GOING TO WORK IS WHAT
IMPERILS THEIR LIFE. THAT CONTRADICTION MOVED INTO A
CONTEMPORARY FORM. IT IS THERE. THIS IS A TIME IN WHICH
ANTI-CAPITALISM IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE UNDERSTANDABLE. WE SEE HOW PEOPLE ARE DRIVEN TO
OPEN MARKETS DO SO WITH A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT, YES,
A CERTAIN GROUP OF PEOPLE WILL GET ILL. YES, A GROUP OF CERTAIN PEOPLE
WILL DIE. BUT THAT IS ACCEPTABLE. WHO ARE THOSE DISPENSABLE
POPULATIONS? ALL OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH
SPACE. IT'S ABOUT MOVING IN AND OUT OF
THE HOME. TRYING TO KEEP THE HOME BY
MOVING OUT OF THE HOME TO LABOR. ALSO AS WE KNOW SO MANY PEOPLE
WHO ARE UNHOUSED DON'T HAVE THAT CAPACITY. AND THEIR GOVERNMENTS ARE
PUSHING THEM DEMOLISHING AT LEAST IN THE U.S. AND OAKLAND
RIGHT HERE THE CITY COUNCIL EVERY WEEK LISTS THE
DEMOLITIONS THAT HAPPEN. STRUCTURES OF HOME ARE
DESTROYED. PEOPLE ARE PUT IN MORE AND MORE
VULNERABLE POSITIONS VIS-A-VIS THE VIRUS AND OTHER
HEALTH CRISES. I WAS TELLING THE MEL, THE CITY
OF OAKLAND DOESN'T ACTUALLY LIKE TO SUPPLY -- DOES
NOT SUPPLY AND DOESN'T LIKE TO SUPPLY SANITATION AT
VARIOUS ENCAMPMENTS PRECISELY BECAUSE IT FEARS THOSE
ENCAMPMENTS WILL BECOME LONG TERM COMMUNITIES
WITH TOILETS, RUNNING WATER, WITH HEATED FACILITIES. THEY WANT PEOPLE TO SUFFER
WITHOUT THAT SO THAT THEY WILL MOVE AND LEAVE THE CITY. THAT IS A NEFARIOUS BRUTAL DEATH
DRIVEN POLICY. » THANK YOU, JUDITH. I WOULD ADD. I'M REMINDED OF THE DUALITIES OF
MOVEMENTS THROUGH SPACE. ALSO BY YOUR WORDS AND WHAT I
MENTIONED BEFORE THE TEMPORARY MIGRATION OF CERTAIN
KINDS OF ELITE, YOU KNOW, ELITE MONEYED PEOPLE TO
OTHER PLACES THAT ARE LESS CONDENSED, LESS IN THE KIND
OF PANDEMIC DANGERS OF THE CITY. SO THERE'S A KIND OF FREEDOM,
FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT OR SETTLEMENT THAT IS BEING
RECOGNIZED WHILE AT THE SAME TIME THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT
JUDITH SPEAKS TO. THE WAYS IN WHICH, THE OLD WAYS
IN WHICH MIGRATION ACROSS BORDERS HAS FAVORED FOR
SO LONG THE MOVEMENTS OF CAPITAL OR LABOR TO SUPPORT THAT
CAPITAL AS OPPOSED TO MIGRATION FOR OTHER REASONS. AND SO UNDER THE TENSIONS OF THE
PANDEMIC WE ARE SEEING SOME REORGANIZATION. I'M ALSO THINKING JUST ABOUT
RACIALIZED BODIES IN SPACE. WHICH BODIES ARE CONTINUING TO
UNDERGO THE SAME KINDS OR EVEN DEEPER FORMS OF -- OF
ABUSE IN PUBLIC SPACES. YOU KNOW, THE MURDERS OF BLACK
PEOPLE IN THE PANDEMIC HAVE NOT GONE DOWN IN NUMBER. AND I THINK THE WAYS IN WHICH
ASIAN BODIES HAVE BEEN RACIALIZED IN THE PUBLIC SPACES
OF THE U.S. ARE ONLY ACCENTUATED BUT THEY WERE
ALREADY HERE. I'M ALWAYS THE LAST PERSON
SOMEONE WILL SIT NEXT TO ON THE BUS. THESE ARE HISTORIES OF
CONTAGIOUS BODIES THAT STICK TO RACIALIZED BODIES IN WAYS THAT
ONLY ARE ACCENTUATED IN THIS PANDEMIC. IT COULD HAVE STARTED ANYWHERE. BUT THERE'S STILL OFTEN ASIAN IN
SOME RACIAL NATURE. » OKAY. WE HAVE A REQUEST TO TAKE THE
GREEN LADY DOWN. » OH. I NEVER REMEMBER TO STOP SHARING
A SCREEN. » THAT'S ALL RIGHT. » I SEE IT NOW. PEOPLE ARE ASKING ABOUT
ACCESSING THE EXHIBITION CATALOG. I WOULD IMAGINE THAT IT CAN BE
FOUND ON THE WEBSITE OF THE -- WE'RE GOING TO GET AN
ANSWER. WE ALSO HAVE A QUESTION ON THE
DISEASE OF INTERCONNECTEDNESS. IF WE INTERCONNECT, WE GET SICK. THIS IS FROM VICKI FRAZIER. IN ORDER FOR MANY TO BE FREE
FROM CONTAINED QUARANTINE SPACES TO EXPLORE THEIR QUEER
INTERRELATEDNESS. THE QUARANTINE SPACE BECOMES A
DISEASE SPACE. I WONDER IF YOU CAN SPEAK TO THE
DREAM LIKE STATES OF ONLINE IDENTITIES JUMPING OUT
AHEAD OF THE REAL LIFE LIVE TIME ADJUSTMENTS. THERE'S A LOT THERE. » SOMEBODY HAS AN ARTICLE TO
WRITE. OR MAYBE THEIR OWN TALK TO GIVE. I WANT TO ADDRESS AT LEAST ONE
PART OF THAT. MY SENSE IS THAT IS THAT COVID
19 IS A DISEASE OF THE INTERCONNECTED WORLD BY WHICH I
MEAN THAT IT'S ONLY BY VIRTUE OF THE INTERCONNECTEDNESS
THAT CHARACTERIZES THIS WORLD THAT A DISEASE LIKE
THIS CAN GO FROM BEING A LOCAL DISEASE OR EPIDEMIC TO
BEING A PANDEMIC. THAT IS TO SAY SOMETHING THAT
RUNS THROUGH POTENTIALLY ALL THE PEOPLE. NO UNITY BY VIRTUE OF PLACE OR
NATION OR TERRITORIAL JURISDICTION. IT'S NOT THAT INTERCONNECTEDNESS
PRODUCES A DISEASE OR THAT IT'S A DISEASED PHENOMENON. NO I DON'T THINK IT IS. AND MEL, I THINK RIGHTLY
DISTINGUISHED BETWEEN THE KINDS OF INTERCONNECTEDNESS THAT
ARE DRIN BY GLOBAL CAPITALISM AND ANOTHER SENSE OF
INTERDEPENDENCY THAT MIGHT BE PART OF A GLOBAL
INFRASTRUCTURE OF CARE. THOSE GO IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS
FOR ME. BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE IN
YOUR QUESTION THAT I THINK IS -- THAT MAYBE WE HAVE
TIME TO AT LEAST TOUCH UPON WHICH IS THE -- THE FACT
THAT BEING -- ON THE ONE HAND BEING LOCKED IN A DOMESTIC
KID IF YOU'RE A TRANS KID, IF YOU'RE A GENDER
NONCONFORMING KID, YOU'RE LOCKED IN A FAMILY ORIGIN SPACE
WHERE YOU'RE DEAD NAMED OR YOU'RE RIDICULED OR YOU'RE
BEATEN OR YOU'RE DISPARAGED OR FIND YOURSELF
LOCKED INSIDE OF A ROOM INSIDE OF A HOUSE ALREADY IN
LOCK DOWN AND SUFFERING MASSIVE ISOLATION. QUEER, TRANS, NON-GENDER
CONFORMING KIDS HAVE HAD A ROUGH TIME DURING THIS PANDEMIC. SOMETIMES THE SPACE OF THE
INTERNET IS THE ONLY SPACE OF LIVELINESS OF COMMUNITY. THAT IS A MASSIVE CHANGE. SO ON THE ONE HAND WE THINK THE
SHELTER IS GOOD, IT KEEPS YOU SAFE. THE SHELTER IS NEVER GOOD FOR
PEOPLE BEATEN UP IN THE SHELTER. WE KNOW THAT TENDS TO BE WOMEN
AND CHILDREN AND VULNERABLE MEN OF VARIOUS KINDS. THERE IS A DUALITY. WHICH ONE OF THESE THINGS. WHICH -- AND I ALSO SEE, YOU
KNOW, IT'S CLEAR THAT IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES LIKE POLAND,
THEY'VE TRIED TO DECLARE TRANS FREE SPACES. TRANS PEOPLE CANNOT GO OUT ON
THE STREET. IF THEY DO, THEY WILL BE
ARRESTED AS A PUBLIC HEALTH THREAT. NOW THAT STATES ARE ABLE TO SORT
OF REGULATE SPACES ON THE BASIS OF WHO IS A PUBLIC
HEALTH THREAT OR WHAT IS A PUBLIC HEALTH THREAT THEY'RE
EXTENDING IT TO REGULATE PEOPLE APPEARING IN GENDERED
WAYS THAT DO NOT CONFORM TO PERCEIVED IDEAS OF
MASCULINITY AND FEMININITY. WE ARE DEFINITELY SEEING A
HEIGHTENED REGULATION OF GENDER UNDER THESE PANDEMIC
CONDITIONS THAT MAKES PUBLIC SPACE VERY DANGEROUS. FOR MANY PEOPLE. AND I'M SEEING A RISE IN THAT
THROUGHOUT THE WORLD ACTUALISM AND I THINK ANY OF US
WHO TEACH IN UNIVERSITIES THAT HAVE SOME
RESIDENTIAL PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH SOME QUEER OR
TRANS STUDENT WHO IN LOCK DOWN WHEN THEY WERE SENT
HOME BY THE UNIVERSITY HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH BECAUSE THEY
CANNOT GO HOME. » THEY'RE LIVING CARS OR LIVING
OUTSIDE. » IT SEEMS IT'S IMPORTANT FROM
WHAT JUDITH HAS SAID TO UNDERSTAND PANDEMIC TIME OR THE
SPACES OF THIS PANDEMIC TIME WHICH WE ARE STILL IN. AND WHICH THE WORLD IS STILL IN. AND WILL BE IN FOR A VERY LONG
TIME AS PLACES -- AS TIMES OF THE INTENSIFICATION OF
VARIOUS FORMS OF VIOLENCE. THE INTENSIFICATION OF THE
VARIOUS FORMS OF REGULATION. AND THE WITHDRAWAL OF FURTHER
FORMS OF PUBLICS. THE RUINS OF THE CONVENTION
CENTER DOESN'T NECESSARILY GIVE US ANYTHING. WE ARE JUST UNDERSTANDING SPACE
TO BE REMAPPING ITSELF IN WAYS THAT ARE QUITE
FRIGHTENING IN FACT. AND WILL HAVE CONSEQUENCES FOR
PRECISELY QUEER, TRANS AND DISABLED BODIES. » THERE'S ONE MORE QUESTION. TOM PETTY SONG. THIS IS WHY -- I CONFESS I NEVER
REALLY LISTENED TO IT. WHICH IS WHY IT'S REMARKABLE I
SANG. » THAT'S BEAUTIFUL. » I LEARNED IT WAS INCORRECT. TOM PETTY'S SONG SAYS YOU DON'T
HAVE TO LIVE LIKE A REFUGEE. DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO
YOUR ANALYSIS? MAYBE NOT. IF THE CONDITION IS STILL LIKE A
REFUGEE, THEN I FEEL -- I FEEL THE ANALYSIS
MIGHT STAND. BUT JUDITH. » WELL MAYBE IT'S AN
INDICTMENT. YOU NOT OTHERS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE LIKE A
REFUGEE. REMIND YOURSELF OF YOUR
PRIVILEGE. AND YET THERE SHE IS ALL GREENED
UP RUNNING INTO A WALL. HARD TO READ.
HARD TO READ. » HARD TO READ. YEAH. » I WANT ALSO TO JUST MAKE
PUBLIC AN IMPORTANT AMENDMENT HERE AN ANONYMOUS
LISTENER HAS REMINDED ME IN POLAND THEY'RE KNOWN AS LGBT
FREE SPACES. EASTERN POLAND AND AROUND. DECLARED THEMSELVES TO BE FREE
OF GENDER IDEOLOGY. THIS I KNOW. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. » THERE IS THIS QUESTION WHAT DO
YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FOR UNIVERSITIES TO BE
CONSCIOUS OF IN REGARDS TO BIPOC SLASH QUEER
STUDENT DISCRIMINATION DURING THE PANDEMIC? » I WANT TO SAY THIS THAT I FEEL
LIKE THE RUBRIC OF INCLUSION, DIVERSITY, THERE'S
ANOTHER PART OF THAT, IT'S A TRI-PART TYPE THING. THAT INCLUSION AND DIVERSITY ARE
TERMS THAT ARE MEANT TO SIGNAL THE WILLINGNESS OF AN
INSTITUTION, A UNIVERSITY, OR CORPORATION TO
INCLUDE PEOPLE OF ALL COLORS, SEXUALITIES OF ALL
GENDERS. BUT THOSE TERMS CAN NEVER
DESCRIBE THE STRUGGLE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE. THEY CAN NEVER DESCRIBE THE
STRUGGLE FOR GENDER JUSTICE, ECONOMIC JUSTICE,
GENDER FREEDOM, OR SEXUAL FREEDOM, OR THE FREEDOM TOM MOVE
IN THE WORLD SUPPORTED BY INFRASTRUCTURES OF CARE. THERE'S A MUCH MORE RADICAL AND
HOPEFUL WAY OF THINKING ABOUT THE WORLD WE WANT TO
IMAGINE AND TO MAKE. AND SOME OF THAT LANGUAGE OF
DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION, IT REALLY CUT ITS DOWN. IT CUTS IT BACK. IT -- IT WANTS TO INCLUDE PEOPLE
IN EXISTING INSTITUTIONS BUT DOESN'T WANT TO
THINK ABOUT HOW EXISTING INSTITUTIONS HAVE TO BE
RADICALLY REVISED IN ORDER TO BE DEDICATED TO THE --
DEDICATED TO THE FIGHT FOR RACIAL JUSTICE, FOR GENDER
JUSTICE. OR FOR THE -- THE LONG STRUGGLE
FOR REPARATION AND RECOGNITION ON THE PART OF
INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OR INDEED AFRICAN AMERICANS OR DIASPORIC
AFRICANS MORE BROADLY. » INDEED. » I THINK WE NEED TO RADICALIZE
OUR WAYS OF IMAGINING. UNIVERSITIES AT THEIR BEST CAN
DO THAT. » AND AT THEIR NORM WHICH WE'RE
SEEING NOW ARE DOING FAIRLY POORLY. THE GESTURES OF INCLUSION ARE
ONLY GESTURES. THEY DON'T REORGANIZE HOW
DISABILITY WHICH COLOCATES WITH RACIAL MARKING IN REALLY
IMPORTANT WAYS THAT HAVE BEEN DESCRIBED IN THE
SCHOLARSHIP. THOSE GESTURES OF INCLUSION
DON'T BECOME REORGANIZATION. THEY DON'T BECOME REPARATION. I WANT TO ALERT FOLKS TO DOING
EVERYTHING YOU CAN, PLEASE, TO -- TO PREVENT -- TO
ENSURE THAT OUR BIPOC QUEER TRANS NONBINARY STUDENTS
CAN STAY WITHIN OUR COMMUNITIES. THIS IS A MORE URGENT TIME. THE TIME OF RESUMPTION. THE TIME OF REASSERTION OF A
CERTAIN KIND OF INVULNERABLE PUBLIC IS PRECISELY
WHEN THEIR LIVES AND THEIR PRESENCE BECOMES MORE
ENDANGERED. » THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MEL. » THANK YOU SO MUCH, JUDITH. » IT DIDN'T GO EXACTLY AS WE
PLANNED. I THINK THAT'S GOOD. YOU HAVE TO LET THINGS LEAVE
THEIR SCRIPT OTHERWISE THEY'RE JUST NOT QUEER. » I FULLY AGREE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU ALL FOR SITTING WITH
US. REALLY GREAT TO BE WITH YOU
VIRTUALLY. » OKAY. MAYBE WE SIGN OFF NOW. I DON'T KNOW. » OKAY. » WE SIGN OFF.
