Jonathan Bate on Ovid

Jonathan I think you stay off of Ovid that he was Rome's great counter visionary it's magical thinker what what do you mean by that well there's a there's a kind of Orthodox position in classical literature where the values of Rome and Roman asst are embodied in literature Virgil is the great national poet he tells the national story of Rome he praises the Emperor of it is the opposite of that of it takes a lot of the traditional Roman stories for instance looking back at the origins of Rome in the escape from Troy and so on stories of origins stories of national identity and he looks at them differently he changes them in the end he's not interested in sort of patriotism and the establishment of myths of national identity he's interested in human psychology and in particular he's interested in the realm or that you might think of as the dangerous side of being human which is to do with magic sex and the night as opposed to the day perhaps why was he such a great influence on Shakespeare is it that it is exactly that that he he taught he tells great stories Shakespeare began reading those stories in school where he was studying classical literature he then got hold of this wonderful lively translation of of it by Arthur Golding and he just found a repository of wonderful wonderful stories about transformation stories about desire stories that really get inside the sheer irrationality of human beings when we fall in love stories often told from the female point of view so much conventional history is told from the male point of view Ovid comes at it from the female point of view and of course that's central to his great poem metamorphosis isn't it which is the fact the power of emotion how it can suddenly change you from one thing to another and that presumably Shakespeare that's absolutely what Shakespeare takes to heart but the really interesting things of thinking about how Shakespeare reads the metamorphoses is that what of it does in the metamorphoses is he embodies the idea of the transformational effect of strong feeling particularly the feeling of sexual desire he embodies it into stories of physical transformation in which people get turned into into trees or stones or flowers or stars what Shakespeare does is he plays that out internally the transformations and what replaces literal or vidiian metamorphosis is metaphors of change I suppose Midsummer Night's Dream is almost an exception in in the sense of bottom being turned into an S I mean there is a bit of that physical transformation there there isn't Midsummer Night's Dream is the one that sort of comes closest to being a literal vidiian metamorphosis with bottom putting on the asses head I mean that absolutely looks like the kinds of metamorphosis that go on in of its original stories it also includes within the play the story of Pyramus and Thisbe which is a story again lifted straight out of Ovid mr. Frank commodes saying that the whole play Midsummer Night's Dream is like a series of variations on exactly exactly say but at the same time the the most deeply obedient thing about the play is the idea of the internal transformational power of love the note the notion of the the magical effect of this this juice that that Park puts on the eyes and how that transforms and transfigures you that's where it's happening psychologically and I think it's a it's a fascinating thing to sort of think about um as we in the 21st century are learning so much more about the chemistry of the brain you know neuropsychologists will now be able to tell you precisely what particular proteins and amino acids are released in the brain hormones that that actually physically change you when you fall in love that can be tracked within the brain and the the idea that falling in love is an effect of an amino acid change in the brain it's not so very far away from the video nor Shakespearean idea that Cupid fires his dart or puck puts some kind of chemical on your eye and it transforms you you know it's it's extraordinary the psychology of love it's a very very ancient thing which Shakespeare turns into story by means of Ovid but it's also a very very modern thing because he really seems to understand the psychology of it and that the sense of the mischievousness of love whether it's Cupid in Ovid Park in Shakespeare we're not in control object it's a force which takes takes whether it's Romeo and Juliet or Midsummer Night's Dream it's fascinating it wasn't he Shakespeare by this process of falling in love as it's called violent delights have violent ends I mean Romeo and Juliet Midsummer Night's Dream they are flip side of each other they're written in close proximity early in his career they're about characters who undergo these extraordinary changes through passion Midsummer Night's Dream it ends happily Romeo and Juliet again sadly it's sort of the same thing I think Camille Paglia the feminist critic I think she called off with the first great psychoanalyst of sex but I think she also said that obvious that identity is liquid which again I suppose Shakespeare very much took absolutely yeah the that sense that people change and that there are moments of crisis in in anybody's life defining moments that's what Shakespeare gets hold of and dramatizes and so if in awe of its writing there are often moments where he really does enter into the changing metamorphic psychology of a particular character Shakespeare does that too and of course gets those characters to speak aloud on stage about the changes they are and going of it and Shakespeare the two great poets of change of the mutability of the human condition

Channel: Connell Guides

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Length: 6min 41sec (401 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 23 2016