Jonas Kaufmann and Antonio Pappano - In conversation (The Royal Opera)

welcome to from our house to your house or in this case my house to your house I have today with me yonas Kaufman the world-renowned tenor and we're going to be in conversation talking about the operas that we've done together over the years [Music] [Music] Yanis welcome and thank you being with us you were with us for your role debut of dong zhuo's a in bezees Carmen an opera in French and your languages are so fantastic that's what sets you apart from your colleagues you have such an ease in Italian German of course but also in French I never had the lesson of French while I was at school for some reason my parents thought that I would go indeed in the ancient history section is something so like I studied Latin and and and she'd reek and stuff like that and then I started studying mathematics also subject very important for his job but nevertheless I think I did my first French opera actually in France me know in in Toulouse alongside with Susan Graham and and I realized very soon that unfortunately you can't I can't sing and interpret and embody something that I just learned by a language coach syllabi cylinder and that was the point where I realized it's it's not the challenge to to to buy I don't know half a pound of ham at the butcher's shop in France but it's actually really really crucial to know almost every word and to be able to to fully feel with that a personality that you're trying to to create but yeah well I mean the Carmen obviously was a challenge as you said my first time and Covent Garden is maybe not the place to hide when you who do it for the first time so somehow it was a hop or a top event and thanks to you it seemed to be on the successful side no it was great fun and the French language is beautiful to singing has somehow a very noble elegant style in it other than German or if I may say also English it's somehow it feels Allegan that the minute you you you start talking and and even though you don't understand a word it still wraps up some some kind of yeah nobility and that helps enormously for the vocal challenges of such a part I would imagine that that I would imagine that the vowel sounds and the the nasal aspect probably gives a nice tangy resonance to the voice is that true yes or no yes and no you see on one hand it really helps to project your voice in the mask if that's what the what usually the professor's used to call it but the second you do a little bit too much it it's it's the opposite actually because then you're losing the the body controlled and the whole voice falls to the front and sits here and it it's it's not really helpful anymore I don't want to mention any examples but there have been also tenor colleagues who gave the impression that the whole sound came through the nose or maybe through a hole that they tried to drill in between the eyebrows so that would be too much French well let's listen to the nobility of of your line and of course let's not forget the incredible warmth and passion that you that you show in this clip the flower song from act 2 of georges bizet is common [Music] [Music] [Music] Yanis I think one of the biggest decisions for a lyric tenor to make is to sing the role of Cavaradossi and it's not for everybody but if your lyric tenor voice has the capacity for that extra metal and extra dramatic thrust it's just a no-brainer it's it's it's it's something they're waiting for the tenor voice you came in and made your role debut with us in the role of cover Odyssey and it was incredibly successful and I think you've sung it all over the world can you tell us a little bit about that role yes of course that has been a role that since then has been part of my core repertoire it's I mean everybody knows it's it's it's a beautiful opera and it's I mean this second act is written like the accompaniment of of a crime scene thriller in cinemas and so it's it's incredible the way he described these situations their Puccini but yes it was really quite a challenge I mean I had I had done so far at that point some very deep arts but that was the first major step in in the Puccini repertoire and it is a different story it is that the phrases are longer the stretch is is bigger the accomplishment of the orchestra is much more intense so you really need to push your way through somehow and even though now it feels like a lighter part at the time it was an absolute landmark and challenge for me so did you have did you feel some of this did you feel a greater than stress on your voice and how did you manage that technically I mean yeah I think you have to be very very clever when you make that kind of move is that true yeah it wasn't and I have to say when I when I sang the part through the first couple of times I wasn't sure with her it was such a wise decision because you see the boys needs to get used to it and for instance in the love duet in first act when he then out of the blue starts on a b-flat uh-huh you cheated where should that come from and I thought well why didn't he write just one note before so but I start on that but it's of course it is sheer sheer beauty and and it's it's it has really really from the first moment with you I mean I remember very well we had we had rehearsals and you were sitting in the cafeteria in Covent Garden and when we're talking about recordings famous recordings that we do like and and I we mentioned Corelli and I said yeah of course I mean it's great but you see I mean you could say that sometimes he passed the line from of good taste but somehow I tried to rap it out book but to give the chance to say no no no don't hold the notes too long and everything and your answer was I do not agree no if you hit the note like that hold it for forever and I was very much more comfortable alongside such a good I think one of the one of the very very important things about this role is that the his last Aria is so well placed in act 3 and it is truly one of the greatest hits of the protein Ian repertoire and of all Italian opera elusive analysts in thinking that you're going to die you look up to the heavens and you remember Tosca there's declamation there's a throbbing vocalism there let's listen to this clip [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] after Carmen in 2006 yonis and Tosca in 2011 in 2014 you came in and took what I think is one of the biggest risks for a tenor but I can't imagine anybody out singing it today the way you sang this role that's the role of degree in Puccini's man only school tell us a little bit about that well he's the glue another Puccini you could think but that's not true for some reason this one sits much more uncomfortable than all the others and I I remember talking to Placid about that he mentioned its Otello is nothing compared to that this is really the challenging role and at that time I hadn't taken on or teller but I couldn't believe that that he was right but somehow for voice that has like his and maybe also mine this noir darker sound this Puccini sits particularly uncomfortable high and and it's really really really really long when you think of the the last the last wet alone it's you are yeah well the tendency is that you just give too much because I mean we all know that you're overwhelmed by the music and somehow we think okay I give tonight it's a good night and everything is fine I give this little extra push if you do that with that part it's it's probably the end of the story because it's just have to be you have to be strategic I think when you think of that the act three the final scene of act three and there you're giving the maximum you will ever give in your entire career probably yes I think you're right but you do start out lyrically and that's the wonderful thing we're going to hear the Aria Donna non-video my you've just saw you've just seen this young girl and you are flabbergasted and full of ardor and again it's a very short Aria but extremely telling and of course going up to the all famous b-flat that is such a feature of most of these tenor arias listen to this [Music] [Applause] [Music] the following year you came back and made another role debut Andrea Shanae the title role in Giordano's opera and I love this supper so much I love the music I love the libretto and of course the character is a gift to any tenor somebody who is standing up for the rights of the people and but who is in political trouble throughout even from the beginning and you manage this role with such class and such romantic fervor and such style because I think the the the verismo repertoire and this is not really a very small piece one of those the realism operas but because it's it's set during the French Revolution but it has a kind of vocalism that tends to be that if you're not careful can be rough and and but the way what you bring to it is such refinement as well as thrust can you tell us about this role yes I mean first of all it's it's a dream come true to sing that part to be honest I mean I don't know I mean how this guy wasn't able to to write another 35 operas of that caliber is a real shame because everyone wishes to hear more and more and more but somehow he his best shots were all in that same opera but it's it's really really amazing I mean when you when you count it you have three maybe even four arias you have those two mega nificent duets with the soprano and and another long long duet with the baritone it's fabulous I mean days and if it would be to pick one of these pieces I wouldn't know which one to choose because the final duet Oh God the common buildi and it's like oh no it's this known with the improvise oh this is really a best hits all in one evening it's it's fantastic and of course the possibilities are that you can use every inch every angle every aspect every sound that you have can produce because there is so much going on there I mean there's so much anger and hate and love and passion and joy and and and fear and it's it's all there so why not use it and and make the sounds that that are the most natural or the most convincing probably according to to the situation and also matching probably to what the composer had in mind so it's it's not that you you have to bend yourself to and force yourself to do something so oh I want to I would bring another color to this it just happens naturally because this music is written extremely naturally and and it flows on such a high wave that you you I think you you can't make mistakes by taste-wise let's say it's just there it's a perfect guideline and it's been a magical production I'm saying really oh I'm so yeah I'm so happy with your excitement for this for this opera of thank you now join us to watch a clip of of yonas and Ava Maria Westbrook his Madalena in a in a working session with myself [Music] with the quality of singers that I have and they're pushing for something that is quite special acting-wise voice wise communication wise with the audience even if we don't understand the language we understand the sentiment that's what I'm after that the sentiment is always clear I want to see these two characters tell me something they have to be as dramatic as dramatically convene convincing as possible they can't just look good [Music] so Yanis in 2018 you made the ultimate jump it's amazing how you've tested yourself over the years certainly at Covent Garden building building building [Music] probably building towards the role of Othello that's let's let's let's say it how it is and you finally reach the top of the mountain hotel oh is a role that strikes fear into most tenors and a lot of tenors just don't have the color of voice the type of voice to be able to to satisfy all that Verdi demands from the singer it's a tremendous acting part and it drives the singer to the ultimate limit of the vocal possibilities but also the dramatic possibilities we have since gone on to record this opera it hasn't been released yet it's just about to be released and I'm so excited about it but tell us about your first goal at doing it on the stage yeah absolutely right it is the the the Mount Everest or whatever even though I'm I'm using the time now to prepare Tristan another one of those challenges it's like Othello but just double size or somehow but somehow you can get away with with a lot of things that you couldn't with Otello the intensity that the it is maybe the last act in interest and is similar to that but but at least at Verdi unheard-of it is spectacular amazing charged with an enormous power of emotions and of darkness and and this is something of course everyone visions his ideal sound his ideal may be his ideal recordings and everything so I don't know what Betty had in mind well I know he had tamanna in his ear and I'm not sure whether this his first choice but the challenge at the time was there was no other role comparable to this hotel oh it didn't exist and only later ten years later probably with Puccini it it started a whole new chapter and and a whole new generation of singers had to be created in order to to achieve what what the new composers had in mind but Oh birdie definitely was was a first for this and therefore since there was no demand no market their owner voices or nobody searched for that kind of voice and so I think we are probably much closer today to the ideal interpretation of Otello's part then we were at the time maybe we're losing a kind of some nobility some some something that we we our modern times make us see things much more realistic and much more direct and and harsh and brutal and of course even though hotel was probably the first opera also from very but in general where you could see the the brutality and the yeah the animal behind the human being for the first time it was still probably with a little bit more distance than we see today but this part has its own personal challenge I think it is not so much the the note for note a word for word or phrase by phrase it is this powerful dark energy that sits in the pit all the time and that that gives an enormous stress on on your mental status and that in the consequence also on your on your vocal approach because you are under pressure all the time and and that's what makes it so difficult there are not many moments where beauty really is necessary most of the times maybe apart from from the love duet end of Act one it is it is only truth and the truth is very naked and often ugly and not beautiful but nevertheless I mean it is a fabulous a breathtaking journey that we did take on a couple of years ago and just recently for the recording and and I can absolutely assure you when I started singing this was one of my dream come true challenges to maybe reach one day but I was quite sure it would never ever happen I was scared to death and even when we started the rehearsals on stage it is a different story when you sing it in the room when you rehearse it when you practice it but when you're on stage when you try to embody this character it does something to you that you tend to lose control and of course this is something very dangerous on one hand but great for an art to an actor to say okay so here we are very close to realism but since we're not only actors we also singers we have to take care of our instrument and and really calculate I think we mentioned that before in other parts but I mean this is the part where you really know each note that you sing wrong and approach wrong you will have to pay for it because there's no way that you can get out of this without that damage be heard at least in Act four so it was really really something extremely special and I'm very happy that alongside of all the other these other record this other role debuts that we did together at Covent Garden this was probably the climax we did more we did many more productions I did my first oh god what was it a long dinner there with you back in I don't know all four or something but since then it's been just an absolute standard for me that whenever there is a part that is brings me up to another level to a next step that has to joy the passion that is needed but also the risks involved I was always referring and trying to refer to you in order to make it happen together because I always felt in best hands and I I felt understood because I believe somehow we tick in the same way musically and that makes things so much easier well I really appreciate that yonas um thank you for those kind words and thank you for giving us a look into this extremely complex mission that is to sing varies or tell oh let's let's listen to some of this [Music] [Music] la forza del destino is one of my favorite very operas and I grew up with it and I don't know I have just a yeah real soft spot for it I think you do too is that true it is yes for some reason I mean we've been just talking about Otello and of course this is the the maximum challenge for some reason definitely not for the length of opera or for the the long phrases or for the high notes this is definitely in the very repertoire for del destino because this Alvaro is is a tour de force especially in the second half and but the music is all beautiful and this is this is exactly what I was talking about before here we have a similar situation we have threats on death we have people who hate with hatred and try to kill each other not only once but several times so it's really really really intense but at the same time we have this nobility we have this incredible elegance we have this friendship between enemies who who try to be to kill the other one yeah with weapons of nobility I can't say it in other words but like I love it I have to say it's it's fantastic I mean and and various music makes it perfect to understand the drama and the tragic between the two hearts that beat in them the one that that tries to get rid of his enemy and the other one that that tries to embrace it friends these these Italian operas Forza included let's not forget that that the provenance is of course originally the Bel Canto and there are always elements of bel canto and certainly in this one but I think the highlights I mean besides your amazing act 3 aria other duets with the baritone and there are several of them let's let's listen to Selena in questura together with Ludovic TJ as Don Carlos [Music] [Music] [Music] laughs orthodontist Tina was of course be honest not a role debut for us you had done it before in Munich and the last opera you've done with us is certainly not a role debut the importance of it though is enormous because we've been begging you for a long time to do a German role in this house and of course I'm talking about Florestan in Beethoven's Fidelio this 2020 being the Fidelio year an incredibly important project for us but it's a very very unusual part you only start singing in act two and and you start with your aria so it's it's amazingly challenging and it demands different things from you and of course your sense of poetry the way you are affected by the words and how you say them is a is a mark of your artistry and certainly when you're singing in Italian and French you we hear and see that to a group incredible degree but of course in your own language in German that is certainly a hundredfold I would imagine and the the feelings can you talk to it talk to us about this tortured soul that is Florestan yes yes well it is in an unusual piece I mean we all know that it's it's a solitary piece the only opera that Beethoven ever wrote but he wrote it several times because he wasn't happy with it what we usually perform today is the last version but still it is it is a incredible stretch between the the formality of the time that he tried to follow when you look at the second act for instance as you say there's my aria but after the Aria for the zoo duet after the dreadful as a trio of the trio follows a quartet so it's a very classical set of numbers interrupted by text and and at the same time we have music harmonies and and and also vocal challenges of a completely different world so he he pushes limits forward enormous ly in in any way I mean the orchestration is is different even though of course it's not the huge huge Orchestra that we we all know today but with the limits of the time he made an incredibly impressive dark and and strong and and and enormously intense orchestral sound and what does it mean to what does it mean for you as a singer to be singing always with a message the this Beethoven's way of writing an opera is to is to convey a message to the audience that it must give you a tremendous power as a performer no yes I mean of course as a performer you tend to try and and and and see or reached the the truth in interpretation meaning that that you really feel what this person feels that you do uh these words are yours that just popped up in your head and when you have these phrases that that as you say have a message and and they to be carried out it's just it it makes it easier and harder because on one hand of course you can just use the message and and bring it out on the other hand you have to make the audience believe that this is your message that it it comes it that this this enormous range of thoughts comes from from within yourself and that that is really really tough to make believe and combined with with the vocal challenges that that all of the singers and especially you know obviously have it's it is yeah it feels different because you feel naked and at the same time covered it's it's it's awkward but of course I mean I've done I've done despite so many times and and it feels absolutely natural and normal but when you think about it suddenly the doubt comes and said why why do you actually think this is the way it should be it can be completely different because it is of course on the way of all the development of opera and at the time were where it still falls apart in bits and pieces and and it's an enormous challenge to put them together and combine them seamlessly even though it's interrupted by two or three minutes text and that is something that since the times of Beethoven and Mozart we we are not used to and it makes things much more difficult because you have to start from credit scratch each and every time and there's nothing that can cover things up and it's just each gem has just to perfectly fit the necklace let's say and it's but I think you've done a great job and and everyone agrees that this necklace should be part of the crown jewels yonis before we go to our final clip I just want to thank you so much for your generosity and for your insight and your artistry even when you talk about what you're doing and not singing thank you we I I personally and all the Roh family really appreciates thank you thanks to everyone to make that possible and to planted at leasts get a glimpse of your face and your voice even from a distance and hopefully we will soon be making music together and talk each other afterwards like we used to there thank you take care bye bye [Music] let's talk about your singing and this God that you talked about [Music] [Music] you approach it speaking from very far away from almost deep inside you because I mean if you think in realistic terms none of this can be real I mean if he's really in prison for two years where would all that energy come from most of it is even the idea amazing how he has an ability to create melodies that seem like inevitable and almost spiritual [Music] beethoven's Fidelio is an incredible symbol for revolution for freedom to equalise people it's a utopian idea of friendship and that we help our brother that's part of the message look at our world today is so divisive this message speaks probably as strong today yeah blue sash

Channel: Royal Opera House

Views: 92,152

Keywords: Royal Opera House, London, opera, music, classical music, theatre, Royal Opera, theater, Covent Garden, performing arts, arts, stage, west end, teatro, musical, culture, art, entertain, jonas kaufmann, antonio pappano, in conversation, otello, tenor, house music, our house to your house, Tosca, singing, Don Jose, Carmen, Fidelio, Manon Lescaut, Puccini, Bizet, Beethoven, interview, Pappano, Kaufmann

Id: EY5v05n2BaY

Length: 39min 29sec (2369 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 10 2020