Jocko Podcast 223 w Pat McNamara: Be Skilled & Prepared to Take Care of Yourself & those Around You

this is Jocko podcast number 223 with echo Charles and me Jocko Willing good evening echo good evening modern combat is chaotic intense and shockingly destructive in your first battle you will experience the confusing and often terrifying sights sounds smells and dangers of the battlefield but you must learn to survive and win despite them one you could face a fierce and relentless enemy two you could be surrounded by destruction and death three your leaders and fellow soldiers may shout urgent commands and warnings for rounds might impact near you five the air could be filled with the smell of explosives and propellant six you might hear the screams of a wounded comrade however even in all this confusion and fear remember that you are not alone you are part of a well-trained team backed by the most powerful combined arms force and the most modern technology in the world you must keep faith with your fellow soldiers remember your training and do your duty to the best of your ability if you do and you uphold your Warrior Ethos you can win and return home with honor this is the soldiers Field Manual it tells the soldier how to perform the combat skills needed to survive on the battlefield all soldiers across branches and components must learn these basic skills noncommissioned officers must ensure that their soldiers receive training on and know these vital combat skills so that right there is the opening introduction of the US Army Field Manual three tact 21.7 five the Warrior Ethos and soldier combat skills and after that intro the Field Manual itself is just filled with these skills vast skills that are the backbone of being a good soldier things like this things like combat casualty care and casualty evacuation how to work in the desert in the jungle in arctic conditions how to use cover concealment and camouflage how to prepare fighting positions fighting positions in urban environments fighting positions in rural environments immediate actions fire and movement fire moon on foot and fire movement in vehicles things like how to move effectively through open areas how to get past windows how to maneuver around corners how to enter a building clear a room how to conduct reconnaissance missions how to shoot a variety of weapons and not just shoot them but how do you battle zero those weapons how do you use reflexive fire what are your immediate actions on failure of your weapon systems and of course there's communications you got to learn a bunch of different radios and radio force voice procedures and then on top of that you got you've got the classic survival evasion resistance escape in the event that you get captured what about Camelot chemical biological and Radiological weapons how do you face those how do you what are the decontamination and treatment procedures for all those what about mines what about demolitions what are breaching procedures what about IEDs how do you identify them how do you find them how do you disarm and destroy them those are some of the things you need to learn and on top of all that what about your Army Values what about the law of land warfare the Code of Conduct the soldier's creed and the Warrior Ethos this manual is packed and that is a lot to learn it's a lot to track and quite frankly what that manual covers is the basics the fundamentals that's like the starting point because there are countless skills beyond those fundamentals and the longer that a soldier stays on task the longer he stays operational the more proficient he becomes at those fundamental skills and then moves on to advanced skills that have tighter standards and more detail and more modalities and one thing about being a soldier is you never you never master it there's too much there's too many things to know too many things to understand too many things to practice too many things to rehearse too many things to exercise and too many things to execute to be truly good at these and I'll tell you what these skills they're not only applicable to soldiers they're all applicable to life they're all useful in life and maybe it's because there's so much sometimes sometimes people sometimes soldiers sometimes servicemen and women they let those skills slide as time goes on they become softer they weaken but there are some soldiers and some people that continue to strive that continue to push that continue to try become faster and stronger and more skilled and more accurate and more lethal and they never stop aspiring to be their best and and those those are the true sentinels of freedom who not only strive to be their best but also pass on their knowledge to others that's what they do with their lives and it's an honor to have one of those sentinels with us here tonight retired Special Forces soldier tactical shooting instructor and all-around highly skilled and capable combat veteran Pat McNamara Pat brother thank you so much for having me I really appreciate the opportunity yeah man thanks for coming on it's uh I know we linked up I forget how you sent me a message I sent you a message or something and we'll it but you finally were able to come out here and you know you said hey you're gonna be around I'm like I can make it happy you know the community of the interwebs right I mean some really great people I mean outstanding people with great character and all positive attributes so and when I meet him like you for example oh I knew knew through is through the interwebs never we never met in person but you could siphon through the bullshit and tell whether or not somebody's legit and whether they're you know whether they're honorable person whether they got good work ethic and all that shit so the people I meet I'm very fortunate to have met some great people because of the the interwebs and you're one of them so thank you so much for making this happen so you and I got some things in common one of us we both got in the military pretty quick we also both grew up in New England yeah so let's go let's go right to the beginning cool where this started you grew up in Connecticut yep and what date were you a sport we're athlete you know what I I started out like my early black twins years kind of um I was an odd kid when I was an oddball you know I was I was probably uh my dad was probably disappointed but he supported all my oddball shit that I wanted to do I mean I had all the suzie hobbies really I was not an athlete I was I was uh I was the kid who got picked on no kid yeah I mean I would ride he's like yeah yeah there was a reason for it and there was a time when I went through a metamorphosis and I had it was like a sink or swim type of thing but you know I would ride a unicycle to school I drew I watch birds I pick flowers all that stuff and yeah I was I was a big-time sissy and then I had a I had a window of opportunity to get tough and I had some mentors in my neighborhood who pointed me down a road and the window of opportunity was it was basically a like survival because I had an older brother who tormented me I mean he was horrible person and when he went to prison the first time I was bright at like 15 years old so you know as a teenager you know you're growing you you have the capacity to really grow and be somebody and I had neighbors and said hey man what are you gonna do with this time you have this time and I didn't even think of it as that I had no idea what they were talking about you have this time to to to prepare for his reap you know for him to come back home you have time so um yeah I started wrestling that was a big thing and the wrestling turned me around and my first two years I suck but my second two years I was I was badass my senior I could not be beaten because I fell in love with it and I would go to the college during the summers and practice with the college students that kind of thing and I was lifting weights and and you know running back and forth to work and stuff like that so I was able to like self-govern I didn't need anybody to drive me because I saw the results I saw what was happening I saw the change got in a couple street fights so that you know you learn you learn whether or not you could cut the mustard in the neighborhood based on you know who's who's picking a fight with you and how and what the results are whether you're getting your ass beat with humility or you're kicking somebody's ass either way you know you learning a lot about yourself what you do in the street fights double leg slam yeah I'm sound Li exactly double leg takedown you know to a dump to a headlock to a couple punches in the face yep exactly those were the you know they talk about like the good old days you you know the good old days we didn't use guns and knives whatever hey in the good old days it was just double leg headlock that's right that's what a street fight was yeah there wasn't any of this jujitsu or Muay Thai no double leg headlock yeah punches to the face I tell you you had a real vanish if you know a really better fight you know back then because you know back then I think fight training was you know Taekwondo or just stuff like that it was karate yeah yeah there was no like Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu and stuff so if you were wrestling yeah you had a big advantage on the street yeah there was a there was a guy when I was a new guy at SEAL team one there was like a guy that had a reputation of being a fighter cuz he was some kind of some kind of karate guy or something like that and this is this is the 90s right this isn't that long ago but it's before UFC one so people kind of thought well you know if you did karate man I wouldn't you know that I mean you know and and there was a little Interpol tune scrapped between the Karate Kid will say and on a kid that was a wrestler right on and a good wrestler like a state champ yeah from and Westerner or something he you know was exactly what what happened in the fight the Karate Kid got his karate stance and Resler did a double leg slam headlock punch right and everyone's like Dave Andy what's crazy is now that I'm thinking about it even back then it was kind of like well that must have just been you know a fluke that the Kurt that the karate kid didn't do whatever a damn Mach kill him all the spots so so so wrestling was huge huge for you yeah big yeah massive so that really that changed that changed me in every every way you know both physically and mentally it just and it's so funny because I talk a lot a lot I talk about a lot with different Special Op guys and one of the big common denominators is most of them were wrestlers in high school you know or a really big percentage of more wrestlers in high school because I think it it that's the one sport where even though you're on a team you know you're not relying on a team or you you're representing a team and you're earning points toward for your team and you have to be a team player but you have to be self driven to you know you have if you want to be the best you have to think well I need to do a thousand reps of this thing I need to get my grip strength better I need better balance I need to do more sprints I need you know to increase my shoulders strength whatever it is you know you have to you have to be very introspective unlike you know cuz I played other sports and and there's some there's some common ground with them too but but with the wrestling you know you're mano a mano with another dude for that six minutes and time and that's a long freakin six minutes at the go situation I'm gonna shit you know what else is and there's another big thing a big psychological thing and my son just just wrapped up his season to end you know what the season didn't end how he wanted it to end yeah and his coach who's a great guy came up to me you know in and he you know just standing there you know I was bummed out but I'm not like super emotional about the thing but his coach comes up and says I said yeah it's a bad day and he goes yeah it's a bad day to have a bad day and I said yeah and he goes wrestling very rarely ends the way you want it to yeah and if you think about that you know you go into a 64 man bracket there's one person that that day ends the way they wanted it to or two days and then guess what that person's going to the next tournament right and what are the chances that so really and when you get done with the season if you're the champion for the season guess what that means you've got another season coming up and eventually eventually you're not gonna be happy with the outcome right that's what's gonna happen so what's what I love about it is you know especially like you're saying your freshman sophomore year you're just getting beat down yeah and so many kids I see there in the wrestling program they that first year you know if they're getting beat down because they've never us before they can't take it the other clearly quitting and they quit but people that are tough and they look at themselves and say well I least see how I can get myself better yep how'd it work out when your brother got home it it turned out really really well um he I was upstairs at the top of the stairwell and I was in the bathroom I was taking a dump was he in juvie or was no no no so he was in the bigge was state he was he went to the plate he went to the Penn State Penn I'll think about the name cuz you'll remember it you'll know that the name of the town and everything it'll it'll hit me but he came upstairs and basically kicked the bathroom door open and I'm sitting down I'm sitting down it's like the ultimate bully him yep yeah and I'm intimidated and I'm and I'm now I'm embarrassed too because I got my pants around my ankles and I said hey you know get the hell out here and he turns he I could tell he's stoned out of his mind and he's got his fist in my face you know one of those say I want to say hello and I pulled my pants up and I said you won't what tonight freaking just straight right just straight overhand right BAM and it went almost through his face and he went down the stairs and then what did i do I followed him downstairs he got up double leg takedown headlock and my parents were sitting in the kitchen and um they crossed their legs and just watched it happen they were like it's about time this guy this is up in comments right here you know this is Karma yeah they didn't do a thing so I got you know those Blixen and told them goodbye and looking out the door because I was going out and was that your senior year that was my junior year yep at what point did you start looking at the at the military that year yeah I know I sew it in yeah junior year 1617 is when I knew I had to I had to do that I had no idea what anything was with the military so it's funny because when I went to the recruiters I didn't tell my dad and I went to all the recruiters I had no prep I had no I had no preference it wasn't like I had Allegiance because you know somebody's dad was in the Marine Corps forever or or Ward the army colors or anything like that I didn't care I just wanted I want to be a tough guy so I went to each one of the cruisers and and the vetting process was who could fast-track me who could put me on a road to badassery the fastest I wanted a fast track to badassery so at the time the army had the best answer because they had two programs they had Rangers and then they had the s a baby program 18 x-ray so um I signed up for that and I went home and told my dad my dad was like he was a little put off because I didn't tell him he said hey we're going we're going back there but I'm bringing my lawyer because I don't want this guy to fuck you and sure shit man when I went back with a lawyer he was doing some scrambling with the paperwork yeah he was he was changing some numbers or digits around or whatever that's I'm so glad that my dad hooked me up like that you know because it could have gone really bad I did it mostly day I mean it's it's so funny it's it's so funny because I look at that career and and you have to be so lucky you know with us and I tell all the UH all these guys who you know contact me on the interwebs and stuff they say hey I want to be a CEO I want to be a forestry count all this stuff and it's hard to explain to them the amount not only how how tenacious you have to be but the amount of luck involved in that road I say guys this is it it's a good road to take it's a bumpy road there's no shortcuts but it's a well it's a road worth taking but damn man I mean because the amount of times I failed throughout my 22-year career I could write a book just on failures you know on the amount of shit that I failed it had to go back and do again yeah the of injuries and the recoveries and the surgeries and another failure another failure another failure and I mean and and it's easy it's pretty easy to go well I failed that one so I'm probably just not cut out for that thing but with most Special Ops guys they don't stop at one thing they don't like for instance become Airborne Ranger and say well this is it this is pinnacle I'm peaking out here I'm gonna just accept this I mean it's a great career path but most of them say what's the next step you know what's the next step let me go and see if I could you know go to halo school let me go to combat dive school let me go to SF course let me try out for selection and go to the unit you know for most of them they want to keep progressing and progressing and progressing so the opportunity in the and the not the opportunity but the chance the chances of failure become greater and greater because you know you're volunteering over and over and over so whenever I talk to young kids and they want to be you know they have it they have it in their mind I want to be a CEO I'm like that's great but just understand you know I'm all about it and and and you know if you've got a good if you got a good but it's hot the hard part is for me is to tell them there's a lot of luck involved yeah I thought you were gonna say there's no shortcuts and there's no guarantee that's that's that's it two throws yeah just like that road there's no shortcuts on that road yeah yeah that's why one thing that I a pretty much one thing I try not to do is say yep you should do right yeah because and well and the worst thing about the Navy and going for the SEAL Teams is look if that's what the kind of lifestyle you want to live do you want to carry a machine gun that's great right if you don't make it in the SEAL Teams then you're not carrying a machine gun right at all right hey if you don't make it through SF or you don't make it as a ranger you don't make it to Force Recon you can still be a grunt which is awesome right and that's what you want to do I want to be a grunt since I was born so so when I joined the Navy I never thought about that I didn't even recognize that I was too dumb but it's it's no guarantee there's no shortcut and man yeah it takes luck you you land wrong on a jump you you know get hurt for in in the basic SEAL training there's something called Rock portage where there's big waves your landing boats in these giant rocky area and it's no fence and it's too easy just to step off rock wave hits your knees blown out yeah two years of recovery you put on weight you're fat you're out of shape you know you go back you get stress fractures you're done I think that happens all the time yeah it happens all the time that was I was a towed jumper my second job I was 18 years old I was a freakin toad jump I got towed all the way across France drop zone I pull my bicep into my forearm broke my ribs dislocated shoulder concussion I mean I was jacked up and I just joined that was my first failure that was number one then that set me back bro yeah that in that airplane again who who was at what number jump was that for you number 200 I still had three left of three or four whatever it is in jump school so toe jumper is that's that's just a nightmare yeah and they briefed it all time I've never even I've never seen one yeah they briefed at all time so talk us through talk us through being a toad jumper and well for I mean for people who don't know you know when you start out a jump career that's how you start with a swift static line so the static line is hooked to an inboard cable inside the aircraft and when you jump out of the airplane you hit the it the the end of the static line and it deploys your chute if it pulls a shoot out and subsequently you know the chute inflates and you float to the ground straight down it's a round chute there's not a lot of skill involved yeah and the key part is that that once that static line pulls the chute out it lets go right they're not connected right so it just pulls the chute out the chute is now inflated and the static line stays with the aircraft that's the aircraft yep so there's many different weight right that's what's supposed to happen there's a lot of different ways you could become a towed jumper one is it's a it's a fault of the rigger so the rigger did something and there's a knot somewhere within the you know the lines of the canopy or what have you so those are pretty rare another the more common one is a fall to the jumper you know so the jumper does something wrong you know he he doesn't hand it to the do to the to the safety the right way his static line because as you as you're going down you know the aircraft toward the door you've got the static line in your hand and the last step before you exit is to hand it to to safety the jump master and he collects it up and he you know pushes him away from the jumpers so it's it's it's it's all very well rehearsed and it's choreographed in it there's a lot of Theodore to it looks cool so I must have just like chucked it at him and it got away from and it went like under my reserve and around my arm so I am NOT even halfway I'm at the beginning of the stick double doors c-130 I'm at the beginning of the stick I go out and instant fire through my whole body inst I go to hit the end of the static line and I feel my whole body just jerk and go with the aircraft I was lucky that the static line was under my reserve and not just around the arm because that would you know meirin would just come off bro you know but uh so it's under the reserve around the arm so there was some friction there with the static line around the equipment the rest of it was around my arm and I remember I had the whereabouts to look up the length of the static line and I could see jumpers coming over the top of me but this wasn't now don't get me wrong this was not me beat I was scared shitless you know I was looking up going oh my god you know this is I was horrified it was a you know an omen of horn and over over over I could see jumpers jumping over me and I'm going what in the hell you know the training said you know put your hands on your reserve and wait to get pulled in and all this stuff and and and I'm not remembering uni because I can't do this I can't put my cuz your arms to your arms up yeah always your arms like tangled in the static line yep oh yeah now and the most of the tension is around the reserve hmm but some and I keep hitting the airplane so thankfully I just so everyone knows cuz you're in 130 140 mile an hour wind yep that's what's that's what's toss in your ass so I'm getting slammed up against the aircraft and thankfully I get slammed hard enough and it comes loose so I've you know fall under the static line boom chute deploys had that not happened there's no way I would have had to wear about support over my reserve no freakin way cuz I was already you know shocky you know the body's amazing you know when you reach you know pain level 10 the body would compensate you know and says let's take care of you and put you into some shock here so you know so you don't feel that bad but I remember being very very uncomfortable under canopy and I was groaning and moaning just Oh just moaning and groaning and I was all the way at the end a friar and how it's supposed to be like way up at the leading edge I was all the way at the end I mean right like at the wood line and I hit the ground and I land on that side boom right on those ribs and all that soft shit right on that arm now to add insult to injury I'm laying there and I'm going you know I'm just 18 euro punky kid bro you know I've done nothing but basic training and AIT to add insult to injury I'm laying there on the ground and a breeze comes in place oh shoot it fades and it starts dragging me across fire drop zone and I'm getting drugged boom boom and I can hear you know the black hat so the instructors out there would we stand on these platforms with bull horns and they were you know placed throughout this massive what's fry our drop sounds like a two-minute drop zone or something he's gigantic its massive and I could hear one of these black cat instructors yelling at me get up leg you over there getting drugged released one of your care to be rude can't be released assemblies now leg and I'm going oh my god I better do what he says cuz I'm gonna get in trouble so I do that I reach up and pop pop one of my cable loop type can if you release assemblies and and I'm scared I'm scared cuz I think I'm gonna get in trouble mmm-hmm you know cuz I'm hurt and and I didn't get permission to get hurt this is the first time I was ever injured injured injured in my life you know real injury uh I packed all my shit up you know I packed all that crap up into that kit bag threw it on my back and I remember being really really scared because there was no signal from my head to my arm you know there was no transmission to make it move to make it worse and then I remember feeling my face and feeling blood that was superficial but you know I hit that the cut was superficial but I hit hard you know against the aircraft boom boom boom over and over and so I get all my shit and I pack it up and I bring it all into the turnin area and the black hats are scanned in the crowd cuz they know and somebody's fucked i yeah they saw it and they're scanning the crowd and I'm going oh my god nobody comes up to my to me he goes hey bro you look bad cuz I was I guess just ashen white you know and I'm dry healy and stuff and and I look look at my arm and he could see that there was the old school BTUs like genuine BTUs I had rope burns around and I go yeah man I'm hurt really bad I don't I don't feel good and he said let me help you with that you know button my blouse and he looked and that's when I flew up because now I'm looking at this on and there wasn't open but it was like translucent the skin and there was no bicep and he kept pulling it down a boom there it was in my form you know and so the black hats see that and they come running over you the guy yeah yeah yeah well the medevac already took off with some dude with a broken femur and the bird already took off so they had to bust me back on these blue bird bus school buses all the way to Martin Army Hospital and then to add more insult to injury this is 1983 so there's a bunch of dudes in there with Grenada injuries like real jump injuries you know in the hospitals filled with these dudes man with Rangers and guys from 82nd who have like real combat jump injuries and I'm here with this tow jumper school 45th company duffel bag drag you know injury and I was like oh my god this sucks so bad that's beginning I mean I had but but there was a lot of times like that you know in my in my like I said I could write a book of fun on how many times I have failed but they're funny so I try to make I try to make it interesting and funny how did you just to rewind a little bit what did you do to get ready what did you know about Special Forces training and what did you do to get ready prior to going in well I didn't have I had oh prior to going in there alright so I was wrestling I was lifting weights I was doing a lot of hiking you know like camping and is that because you knew like yeah I knew they were part of it yep I knew that they were woods men and stuff like that I had a buddy who was uh he was I was a boy scout I had a buddy who was Eagle Scout and knew all the mountaineering stuff he was really good and we would go up and do robes and rappelling and all that you know it also good for fear management when you're a kid you know rappelling off the side of a cliff is great stuff to help carpa compartmentalize those you know fears of heights and things like that but I did a lot of Woods running you know and just I think for me it was therapeutic and it was more about mental preparation than physical preparation physically I was pretty freaking strong I was I was very fit I was a very fit teenager you know and my my latter teen years 17 18 years old I was very self driven I wanted to be fit I saw that you know that I looked cool too you know and that's a freaking motivator Pro when you're 17 and 18 and when you got a physique it's like yep how many I needed I need to work out more because damn good yeah now when you got in what was the shock to your system like day two of boot camp so regular boot camp that was that was scary as hell I love it how how you know it's all theater mmm but you don't know that no you have no idea but here's the thing to day two it was actual day to say they had the the rules weren't in place yet in 1983 where there there there came a point where drill sergeants couldn't physically you didn't hit you yeah that point hadn't happened yet mm-hmm and I watched a drill sergeant right hook or a dude who you know made a move at him in formation you know one of my peers private nothing he's zero and he was that parade rest and the drill started was yelling at him and they were both sized for size you know they both looked like badasses I remember looking at this this punky kid and this Joe son they both looked like badasses and the kid you know made a jump boom and I'm out of nowhere I mean hook right to the frickin jaw timber drop boom just dropped and our holy that was the scariest thing I ever saw I've never seen that in my life before you know like that I mean I've saw some street fights but that you know mano y mano that that fearless guy and that hook was so freakin fast and then seeing that guy just timber was yeah I was I was pretty scared I know I know that when people listen to podcast and they'll send me a message and be like hey i just joined i just do an army it's join the Marine Corps just join the Navy and I always say listen the first two weeks you're saying thank you right now the first two weeks you're gonna be like hating right you're gonna wish you never listen to this podcast because it's such a shock to your system to have every freedom that you have as a human being every sense of individuality and every sense of privacy which is like three some of the three primary things that we value they're all gone they're gone stripped away it's a great culture shock I love the way they do it you know I love it the culture shock is is real you know and if you're not used to it you know just some punky kid who is badass on the wrestling team and then you you know then your heads get shaved off and then you you look the same as everybody else and then you know you're sleep-deprived sleep-deprived what is that you know and you have the time limit to eat and all you know and then the constant freakin yelling and screaming in your face yeah I think they do they did well with the infantry basic training when I went in as I could remember call it now I say kudos to those guys who are who are able to run it like that I mean once again all theater you know when I look back if I were to go right now through it and like yeah whatever I'll play your game I know you're not gonna do anything to me yeah just get a suck that's all I'm thinking though 83 - you had a bunch of Vietnam guys yes or nevermind still had field not early Grenada yeah damn you guys had shipped a lot I mean I had a Nam Nam guys in when I got to the teams but you know it had been 20 years right so there's a lot of guys that retired at 20 well guys that just got out after whatever they did two or three tours in Vietnam but for you in 83 man it was yeah cause you were they were a matter of fact went out even when I went to the SF course they were they were thick oh hey Vietnam that's going through the SF course Oh going through it dang yeah they were thick and then when I got to a team and first group you know my team started was a 173rd guy you know in Vietnam and they were they were a dime a dozen I mean you had all of the command were Vietnam if there were n cos you know they were Vietnam that's if they were east 7s and above they were all Vietnam vets so how long did it take you to recover from the Toth jumper scenario jumper happened in October and I finished jump school a couple months later in end of February so you recovered and then went back to jump school no no that's when I ended jump school yes I recovered and finished jump school end of February is something like that quick recovery yeah yeah yeah and you had to get bicep surgery right yep yep and it was a mess because I split the bicep in half it wasn't like it's separated from all the tendon it split the bicep in half so they had to salvage it so it's about as big as the way it explains to me is a big as round as a pencil so you can imagine the amount of strength that you lose you know and you don't know how much you rely on a bicep when it's when it has to work in compound with other months for instance doing pull-ups because when I got to the q course so now you're starting all the freaking screaming and yelling and sleep deprivation and food deprivation all over yet all over you just finished it but now you're doing more of it now you're back to being you it straight from jump school yoku course yep matter of fact but yep right - and I started the q course on my 19th birthday March yes there was my birthday March 5th to 1984 I started the queue course and our March sport and in can't recall first days when they weren't screaming and yell at you you're doing classes patrolling in land nav and survival all this stuff and you were able to get a hot a one hot meal a day if you could do 10 pull-ups with your kid on and climb the rope with your kid on and most everybody was doing that I wasn't doing it because I had no bicep and now this hurt my pride because I'm fit you know I mean I was a pull-up master but I just finished all these months in the hospital to hadn't done any PT nothing you know so I had to get I had to get back into shape while I was getting back into shape you know during the training process I had to I had to get into shape because I was getting those hot rations and I did it took a while but I got those things and how long is AQ course um for me it was a long time it was some of it depends on what your MLS is like your second phase and I don't know how they run it now as far as like phases go so there's a first phase which is all the basic skills your land nav your survival your patrolling all your repelling all all that stuff you know and and getting yelled at you know the first phase just sucks just just a big suck fest and there's classes in between suckin second phase depends on what you're special to us no no so and you were echo right well I started as weapons guy okay yep so I went to the q courses weapons I had later re class as an echo is God and then a third phase which is you know big field exercise doing like your FIDs and your UW and all that the the the traditional special-forces tasks so but yeah I I failed out of first face and it was i failed first I failed survival in first phase now I was an SF baby keep in mind and and the senior guys did not dig that they were privates going through the q course there was some animosity there bro they they weren't digging that shit at all they were like keepers of the crypt you know survival was cool and I don't think they run it the same way anymore I'm not even sure they do it all but back then it was six days you got no food they send you they they drop you off an area of like you or E National Forest and they give you one ration for those six days and it's either a live chicken or a live rabbit now they teach you prior to I you know you get you learn all field craft stuff and everything you know how to make fire how to kill stuff all this stuff and then within those six days you have you have a list of 22 things you have to accomplish and a lot of them are easy you know you got to build this massive signal you got to build a shelter you got to keep a fire going 24/7 you got to find water you got a filter water you know just a lot of things but I'm gonna try to cut this one just a little short but I was I was thriving and surviving I was kicking ass because I did a lot of it as a kid running around the woods fishing and stuff like that so I was crushing it and I found a pond that was within the confines of my blood because they they told you you know here is where you are you could only move within this amount this radius you know you can't go I forget what it was but within the confines of my boundary I found a little pond it was right on the edge of it well well there's pond people fish where people fish people throw trash and sure shit up on a little camping spot and and I found trash and I was licking like yodel wrappers and stuff I found a little remnants of chocolate and I found fishing line in the tree in the trees because guys were cast and we I climb these trees and pull and meticulously pulled out all these these nice long strings of good fishing line bobber hooks all this stuff and as I'm looking around this campsite I see a beer can sitting up on a log and I go over I feel it and I go oh man there's a beard there's something in here smelling it so I cut the top over me with my knife and sure enough you know it's like two-thirds full you know beer and there's bugs on it and I chugalug this thing then I go fishing and I catch a string or load of these massive bluegills a stringer load I mean like sustenance like but like I'm gonna get full today now when you when I went back to my campsite you know priorities where it started over again get your fire going make sure you know everything's squared away because the tax or the instructors come by every night to check on you make sure you're alive and they read your log because you're a log what you did during the day and he's looking at my string of fish and I got some smoke and you know and he's like what in the hell I said yeah I got you know all these blubber bun and and I was child I found that worms are when you're hungry they are good and if you cook them there's they're just food yeah they're just at this food you know you cook them in a little bit of water and you're kidding your canteen cup there's nothing freaking gross about him and they are good so I was I was chowing down not only on the worms but all this fish and I was smoking it I hadn't killed my chicken yet this is like day three chickens just walking I got him tied up with a little piece of the gun at 5:50 quarters block man yeah he's like a big my buddy but that was part of the task so I had to kill him eventually because that was wrong on the checklist but I was saving him for a rainy day but the instructors reading my log and he goes what's this here about a beer and I go oh yeah yeah I found it and this chicken shit motherfucker pulls out his wallet and pulls out a card and he goes you have the right to remain silent anything you say can you read me my rights bro because you know why because was drinking beer on duty dude this is survival bro he was pissed that I was surviving so that was and you were a private right and it was a private so that was the 10 points so you have it there was this point system and I already lost a bunch of points just doing dumbass shit but that was my last 10 points I had to go I had to read they allowed me to recycle because I I act and this is that last thing you do and in first first place sucks man it sucks it sucks I remember you not got patrolling being so cold and sleep deprived deprived that I piss myself you know it on like 33% security I mean and so now I have to do this all over again Oh first face it but that that was the story of my life in the military and that's the kind of thing though like you were saying earlier that's the kind of thing that gets people's heads oh right because they don't you know they they say yeah yeah I'm not doing all the skin I made it this far now you're gonna tell me to do all of ya that's not you guys are stupid I don't want to be a part of this camp of people that are assholes now that's not happening yeah they ain't in your head for shit was very easy when I left camp McCall and went back to Fort Bragg and got hot you know chow hall food and me and a shower to go yeah this is this is comfort here this is where I want to stay you know you there's that point where you you could you could accept you know being mediocre where I could see it and I was like you know no fucking way man I want that so bad I want that green beret so bad I really want that and they're giving me the opportunity because they didn't have to they could have said fuck you they're giving it to me hell yeah shit man I just same thing with combat dive school and when when did you go to combat dive school was that well we're already at a group yeah so I was in first group well before we get there so what was the rest of you know the cuecore yeah the rest of the queue course no did you have to do language back then no back there no language we did that when we got got it yep so the rest of it just kind of it it sucked because you because you needed some experience you needed to know how to write in operations order and you need to know what you know five-point contingency plan was and pace report and oke Oke and all those acronyms you know as a private you don't have any of that you guys who were coming and they've had you know 82nd back 82nd airborne background or Rangers I mean they're actually squared away squad beaters yes the night of a minimum they knew the Ranger handbook you know by heart inside out I knew none of that shit and none of it none of it so thankfully there was a staff sergeants and he sevens who saw me and went there's something about you and they kind of took on the responsibilities mentor and I jumped on it I jump on out with those guys you know these guys were like first Ranger Battalion you know 82nd airborne a were hardened infantry dudes for like six years already and they knew all that shit all of it because with it there was no way without them there's no way I would have made it no freakin way you just don't have you don't have the freakin sense and you got to know there comes a time when you're going through training like that where you got to know you know what Who am I gonna align myself with who is it that I'm gonna align myself with any end I can't look like a shithead I got to make sure that I'm never late light out of uniform because otherwise he's squirt away soldiers they're not gonna want me to hang out with him if I'm just some piece of shit who's literally strap hanging on to them I want them to want me to hang out with them so I made that happen by you know being uh work ethic you know of a volunteer for the shit duties out in the field that kind of Fisher because nobody wants to volunteer you know when you're out patrolling nobody wants to volunteer when you're patrolling it somebody says hey we need to build this or go on this reconnaissance but I could stay here in a patrol base so I volunteered for every one of those things but you know you I learned a lot on those two because I'm with some infantry badass dude some grunt and you know he's teaching me along the way just OJT so I mean I made it by the skin of my teeth I would say you know that training I did not graduate as an undergraduate or anything like that but you know down the road I did I did very well at different schools but uh well it's like that thing where you know you get the kids in school that got held back a year right you know and they do a lot better I mean obviously you know when you're that young and I was the same way unless when I was 18 and it's just like I look back now I'm like well I'm the same thing like okay I'm glad I made it there because there was guys that were a little older and you just think man they had a they just knew more they were physically more developed than I was and you know you just just try and hang on man yeah hang on yeah let me just snap link to you man that's another thing is in basic SEAL training there's you don't learn you basically don't learn anything right it just six months of just suck just yep just this is just gonna suck you don't really you don't go on I mean like I said you don't go on patrol you go on some patrols you know you go through the land warfare phase which is six weeks and you gonna you know you've gone long humps and you do these little missions but it's not it's it's not anything it's you don't you're not actually learning to anything you're just having to suck it up it's a good way to trim the fat though the only have really wants to be here because SF what now they have you know like a selection and assessment process back then it was called preface so just a couple weeks of just beat down yeah that's it was PT four times a day you know three hours of sleep a night for a cup and there was no rhyme or reason to it there was nothing there was nada I don't think there was a single piece of hip-pocket training you know it was just formation run push ups sit ups get up get down roll over go clean this clean that pick up those pinecones Petey again it just yeah just a beat-down but it was a good way to trim the fat first guys are like fuck this man so you graduate you get through and then where did where did you go for I went to first group out of Fort Lewis Washington yeah Arctic jungle yep yeah we used to go up there and trade right it's frickin awesome already junk really yeah south radio training area you know that's like a jungle and if Bigfoot exists that's where he lives understand thanks for heatless man holy crap hey so you check-in so what would you do when you check didn't you go to an 18 right out of the out right right out of the gate I went right to an 18 and man talk about being intimidated all over again I'm going with private on this team you know team sergeants Vietnam vet I mean the team commander was badass there were two other there was another Vietnam vet and every one of these dudes from Ranger Battalion not even 82nd they were all Rangers all and then me me no asset I have nothing to offer what am I have a cherry weapons dude on a freakin a-team just a cherry who could PT his ass home yeah that was that you know I get peachy my ass off and I could volunteer for all the shit duties and make sure that every you know all my kid is squared away and and that I'm gonna I'm gonna you know and then I'm gonna stay out of trouble so you've been wandering army for what like two years at this point oh yeah yeah yeah if that year and a half a year and a half and the other guys been in the Army for ten years all right twelve yes six year nine years and you're the only guy that's it yeah yeah it was and there Nam vets yes right I was the new guy so many times even when I went to second 85 or something like that no before this is 84 when I went to 484 I got there and 84 beginning 85 the cool thing too is um I got opportunity just like that boom boom boom do you want to go to the school that's goes like hell yeah send me you know if you if you're asking me that yet the answer is yes I want to do all of the things yeah all I don't want to just ride it out and accept mediocrity you know and be just be another dude I don't want to be top on that totem pole okay so my butt talents are major was famous a Vietnam vet like Donald J Taylor but highly decorated he saw me one morning and I was running through the battalion area and he goes private mad Khmer and he looked a member jackieo Jack Palance the actor you know he's kind of like Jack O'Lantern you know I had that scowl on his face I go yes sir major why were snapped parade rest because I'm having a surprise inspection at the barracks this morning and I want you to beat my record or my room is fucked up yeah it's jack it's Jack well the thing is like that morning I got a call from greyhound cuz I shipped all my stuff greyhound because back then you know it was like $15 anywhere in the country so I had a ship from Fort Bragg to Fort Louis my all my duffel bags and my team started to take go pick your shit up a greyhound I went and God brought it to back to my room dumped it all over the freaking room and then right after accountability formation at like 0-9 or whatever that's when he grabbed me and I'm going oh my god I go Roger that Center major when you want to start he goes you got something to write on something to write with let's start right now my room we did three four we lived in the old I was those World War two barracks and World War Two the white freaking the Rays they got the minute crawlspace underneath and I swear my mind was the last room to get inspected last last building last room and he's been ransacking shit I mean dump and drawers and knocking over beds you know there was something to skew with some reason he was just ransacking and look for clues or booty you know look for paraphernalia he got to mind open that door and there's shit everywhere and he goes who the fuck's this and he looks at the nametag and the door and he looks at me and he kind of smiles and he opens I should you this sucks clever no wit you know wit I like I appreciate wit when guys have wit and this is how witty those dudes are he opened up the first door let it hit the floor BAM and shit just freaking jumps out of it and in that drawer I had three seven six two rounds couldn't have ammo in the barracks and I had $200 in cash she couldn't have that a lot of cash in the barracks either and he picks up the money and he picks up the bullets and he walks over to me and he looks at the money goes is this a bribe for whoever finds these any jobs and he fucked just hey pay maker right to the breadbasket laughs or I double over but that wall-to-wall counseling back then I would much rather have that than an article 15 for sure I mean but my shit was wrapped so tight after that I mean I never ever never fucked up again I mean I thought I was screwing away before that no I was I was on it like a bonnet you know I was talking about this the other day like the it sounds like you're going through the same thing one thing that was awesome for me when I joined the Navy is what I wanted to do when I were out I really just wanted to do is just like a be a good seal yeah and like whatever I could do to try and be a good seal and when that's your goal man it's like your whole life is pretty good because like we are trying to stay in shape you're trying to get have your gear ready you're trying to be squared away like that's what you're trying to be a good teammate you're trying to volunteer for stuff it's such a it's it it's you know when you hear there's a lot of people are running around that now myself including included saying like hey you gotta have a mission you got to be you know driving course of yeah the meaning is found in responsibility Jordan Peterson right right right well for me it's like Oh guess how lucky I was I was a total knucklehead kid and and I had an aim my aim was this broad thing of like hey I'm gonna try and be a good seal right like if that's what you're trying to do man it just it puts you on a path right you know put you on a good path yep and it sounds like pretty similar for you you're getting on a good path hey I want to be a good Special Forces soldier and when you screw something up you tighten up even more yep and and and you know and they were always giving me opportunity to improve myself and I never let one of those opportunities pass I mean do you want to get like combat dive schools a hell yeah that's another one I failed by the way how do you fail to combat down well here's the thing I think nothing about nothing no I I had no idea what that sky I thought I was going to like die for conch shells in Key West or something no idea none no pre scuba which is a prerequisite okay just that hey bat Mac private Mac you're fit were you a water guy at all yeah yeah yeah I'm strong in the water and I was on a water team scout swim team okay with infer and first group so a lot of surface swimming you know just dragging a rock surface swim I went to combat dive school and once again you know everybody's screaming at you your PT until you freakin you know I I got an umbilical hernia but water is the great equalizer it is indeed there is no doubt about it and so when when they started having us doing car like the PT thing I was like alright this sucks this sucks but then you know you have a couple classes and then right to the pool and everybody screaming at you and you're trying to get your gear and as fast as possible and you know you got these twin ATS on your back and the second stage is stuffed into your BC and you're not breathing and stuff it's just all wait 20 pound belt mount the gunnel prepared out of the water and in the water and then to terror you know with the crossovers so the crossover thing to me blew my mind talk about you know humility how to make somebody humble you know how to suck the freaking life right out of you it's explained crossover so it this particular pool you know it was a what's it what's an Olympic swimming pool at the with 50 by 25 yeah it's pretty wide it's pretty yeah it's probably 50 by 20 yeah so it's like 25 and this pool is nice and it was 18 feet to Dean so you've got guys on each side of the gunnel too so on each side of the pool so and your your your chest to back you're just stacked up and you got a mask on and you got your buoyancy compensator you got your twin 80s you got a 20 pound weight belt you got air in those tanks you're just not breathing it that regulators stuffed in your BC the instructor yell out prepare to cross over cross over so one you both sides go underwater and the objective is to make it to the other side one side goes shallow one side goes deep and you come up and you get a few puffs before they say prepare to cross over cross over it ain't enough time especially if you had no pre scuba you had you haven't experienced this and then you do it again and again and again and people start dropping like flies and what the when the dropping is it quitting yeah sometime with me for example it wasn't necessarily I didn't say I quit I refuse to get off the wall because it was a shock because I already had a shallow water blackout so I already had a shallow water blackout they in with the shallow water blackout it's basically you once again the human body is cool because you won't let you drowned unless you want to drown unless you inhale water you're you're gonna pass out before that happens so when you hold your breath long enough you just pass out and there's school at this shit they know cuz it happens to people all times so they go down they freak and bring you up and usually as soon as you come back up and they slap you on the surface you're you revived you're coming out of it and then then it takes your while you know you're like holy shit that was scary and then they ask you once you provide to give you some oxygen do you want to get back in the water the answer from you is yes I do and then I had another one and the next day during cross overs it was I had that other one they said you want to get back in the water yes I do another cross over and I couldn't get off the wall and the rule was they tell you three times and you're out get up the wall mister and there they want you to succeed they want it they want you to there's like Tom telling you that's the first one I'm gonna give you another one mister get off my wall because it's not get off ma get off my wall get off my wall you know they want they want you to want this yes you're you're a you're a fellow SF right right yeah they want you to want this so and super super professional cadre so they gave me the third one and it didn't happen I was froze that I was stuck to it but that's another one that I avenged I went back I've got pre scuba and I went out I fucking killed that school not only did I kill it but I was volunteering for shit for instance I had a buddy who during shit bottom search so you that was that's some scary shit you know shit bottom search cuz your back is on the frickin deck man you feel your your 2080s in the in the muck in that and and and your you're basically wandering with your hand the bottom of this boat this ship and you could feel that ship rising and sinking just a little bit just a little bit just those couple inches but what happened to my buddy of mine is there was a type of cylinder 8 type of jellyfish that was on the ship itself and when he was washing basically Washington the ship they went down his blouse into his shorts and he got a freaking he got like stung by jellyfish all the way from his chest always ballsack so it was medical emergency up I'm sure this is a funny thing when we got him on shore he's going he's burning up you know it's jellyfish and so here's a grown man and this is one time where you don't question this shit where a grown man is ripping his clothes open he's going piss on my face my dick you know we're all shrunk up because we're frozen and then we got our dicks in our hands were like five dudes it's not one guy well he had a really bad reaction and he started throwing up and he failed the next day's subsurface swim 1,500 subsurface swim but he get to make it up on a Saturday and we had that Saturday off and they asked for volunteers somebody got to be a swim buddy somebody got to be a swim buddy and I figured and volunteered and this guy was bad he was way more badass than I was so I was a little nervous because I didn't want to slow him down and we we mounted the gun and went and boom he or you know got the surface got his bearings he gave me a freaking you know that go down signal and we start Finan and I am struggling to keep up with everything I'm honest Heather you know I'm like oh he can't feel I can't I have to keep up with this dude and he is an absolute cyborg and that was the hardest I ever worked in my life because now I'm not working for me I'm working for somebody else and I can't let this dude down you know oh my god but he crushed it he crushed it yeah what was the time space between you failing dives going and going back one here okay so it is so this is like I don't know six months that was - yeah six months one year was for selection were you guys were you guys uh we got going on deployments at this time yes okay yeah and where were you guys deploying to for us at first group it was Southeast Asia Thailand Malaysia those kind of things yes and it's cold war right yep cold war fid stuff peacetime army Jew did you have to learn a language at this point yeah I was pretty good at Thai I didn't do it was a condensed course like a three month huh you know so you learn all the survival skills and all that but yeah and then then where did you go when you how long did you stay there for how long just in that first group well uh like three and a half years and then I got recruited by some dude I got really he had a list of ten of ten ten names on this on this sheet in this folder and company so our majors told us who he had to go to this meeting and he's some dude he's civilian clothes and he's got long hair uh and he's the it's so vague what he's explaining to us he goes yeah it's a cold war job and it's in Europe it's I've kind of felt like Will Smith I'm men in black when he's go now what do we do it here again well we're looking for an embarrassed or the best oh but you know that kind of shit I had no idea but I knew it was something bigger than what I was doing currently so once again opportunity not afraid jumped on that shit man and what we were doing with that is how we were like building networks for double agents working in Berlin so before that went and got German language as well but that was a cool job because it was some real cloak-and-dagger shit you know there's some books written about it now that are pretty cool did you go over there like undercover no that one no okay was different times when I did we had it like that it was softcover and you had to have for that one you have to have cover fraction come for status you know why you here in this country besides you know I'm just some military nug right because we had you know track suits leather jackets mullets you know you know all that freaking looking like Eastern Eurotrash body odor smoking cigarettes that gig for I did that for about a year and a half and then I I got recruited by some other dude he came and he was looking he had one name on his list it was mine well because I had there was certain thing they were looking for him it was a very the skillset was very particular he had to be good at the language he had to be good at like driving and there was certain different motor skills you know all his tests anyway I met the quota I met the data that he was looking for and now this guy's in uniform but he's a SF guy and I said there's another SF job here he goes yeah man he was were spying on the Soviet Army in Soviet East Germany I say get the fuck out of here I said never heard of this just now there's only seven slots 7sf slots seven so I jumped on that one so that was more schools I had to go to whippet Warsaw Pact ID school in England more driving schools get my language because now I'm working in East Germany their second language ain't English if you know what I'm talking about I mean you know and I did that for about two years that was cool and once again you're going over there as an army dude on this one I was over as an army dude the cover for action cover status on that one is a we were liaison to the Soviet Army they all knew what the hell we were doing that it was paper-thin man the cover was paper-thin and it was all cat mouse they knew it they issued well they're doing it back to us ah they were doing it back to us in West Germany we were way more aggressive I think at the time 95 percent of the intelligence on the Soviet Army was coming from those units so in East Germany the US was doing it the French and the Brits and we would all rotate sectors and it was scary it was scary gig because they were the Soviets reserved the right to to kill you they issued you maps and on these maps they had to these yellow mark yellow areas and they were called PRA permanently restricted areas and you couldn't go in this those areas well that's where all the good shit was you know all the freaking KGB comes and all the nuke stuff so we probe those things and it was it was so the cover was paper-thin how we were doing stuff was you know could you had you were going over with two guys one of the guys was at SF dude the other was a an officer who was a Russian FeO or something like that or Intel we know no tactical skills man whatsoever I mean I remember sitting down and you say you'd go over with then we go from from West Berlin to India Germany into East Germany okay across the glienicke Broca and we had a Soviet credentials and and we would go to the like the consulate or was something like that and deliver mail so that was how we got in and we did it all the time it was you know several times a week yeah and then when as soon as you cross the bridge and you deliver your mail you were you stayed in country now for about three days and you did your mission and you had you know a list of tasks subject yes you had you had your essential tasks lists and what will be like a task that you oh one of them would be there is because satellite footage still existed so what's going on in Cutlass there's a big military exercise what we need is just pictures of the vehicles and unit affiliation see who's there you know filiation satellites can't get you an affiliation but you know we can get up close develop pictures of all the vehicles and the bins and get you an affiliation another one might have been railways were a big one railways you know what's coming in from to check side polish side what is coming in to Falkenburg into the Rick train station and it all actually was tarped but we we were experts in topology too we can read the piece of acquit equipment under petard even a variant bro I'm talking like the beater ATP be too irregular to a beater 70 you know yeah we even know the variance under tarp it was it was good shit that was a fun ass freakin job scary as hell scary so because we're so people thing here's the other job we had because I imagine you I mean you're carrying a camera with you you can telephoto little clandestine K no no no we're travelling in a Mercedes Galindo Bhagat because if we're not undercover traveling because we're a liaison to sidearm right so we're in a Oney green Mercedes GLE end of August are like a Mercedes G but it's souped-up and it's got it was very very high speed shit in a low speed world you know we had a dashboard with toggle switches where you could control for instance as soon as you went over the bridge it was an SOP turn off the switch number one cuz I killed the horn because you don't to have a horn ad there was like a warn switch we another one you turn off the brake lights no the of the license plate illuminator okay yep but you had a brake light this disabler you had even disabled one side so from a distance you look like a motorcycle you know all that stuff and then so it was a two seater in the back was a big sheet at the phone with holes cut and each hole filled a nikon lens and each lens was attached to an f1 body bro every freakin one of them yeah so you just reach back boom 500 mirror HP HP HP each gate yep just went to town and then we had a video cameras mounted up like basically where the visors are and with the remote on the dash so pretty it was a high speed shit in a low speed world for sure yeah I was falling yeah you know man oh when especially if you got a big hit because it was competition with the other tour guides we have called tour tour guides so you know who could get the biggest hit like I got I got a si 24 nuke best say 24 news in the town was it called B turrets and we heard that it might be coming in and you know so we hung out and I was uh I was with a squared-away officer at the time too he was um he had been to Ranger School wasn't arranged but he'd been to Ranger School and he was he got a scholarship West Point scholarship for football so he's a fit due to him so I was with this dude I was fired up and we were going after this SSA 24 and we ended up it's a long story I'm just gonna cut it short we were hide behind a hay bale the landowner came out he smashes the front of our vehicle because we're not trespassing we explain this is I mean you're communist bro you know the shit this is Soviet land but uh he gets me he apologizes invites us to his house his house is right on the tracks we parked the vehicle in the backyard and orient the cameras check out the orientation and everything have a camera with us at the ready because they don't know what we're doing we're just fucking off in his field you know his Americans they serve his tea and coffee train comes we get the whole video footage we got all the stills we got all the freaking numbers on it and we're sitting in this dude's backyard yeah so that was a big that was a big hit but yeah that was a fun job because I got chased by all kind of shit like T 80s a SS 21 oh and their thing about Soviet kids are so much of it it's so big you know I mean it's a massive like there was this one called two triples Arpita between triple stripes 3 pts PTF yeah it's like a it's a tract pontoon that takes tanks across the river gotta you know it's just it's massive it's like the brontosaurus over the of the KITT world we have nothing that big you know and that moves that fast and then there are BMP ones are like the velociraptors of the kid world you know they're just I mean it's not it's all in a horrible state of repair yeah but if you got a shitload of it something's gonna work oh that's cool that you were doing real stuff yeah in the eighties yeah most of the guys like that time we're doing it the other yeah I was you know what I was so fortunate I never had one of the things I'm careful as I always I always make sure I tell people that was very fortunate I was very lucky that I had the best mentors and I never ever rest on my laurels you know I know the world spoke back there knows a badass I'm a badass tomorrow I don't need the rest of my laurels because I hate those guys yeah I know this is what I did yesterday and and I don't reflect upon it a lot but it's interesting yeah it's interesting it's it had inter it was an interesting career yeah and like as I read some of the stuff that you don't I kind of pieced together not just what's like out there but you know I kind of pieced together what I know about you know so I had a little bit more in depth I can fill in some holes yeah and that's what got me thinking about you know when I was opened up talking about like soldier skills oh right I just think about all the different things that you did and how the variety my career and I know like when you I mean I know you went to some kind of camera school you would have some identification all didn't feel developing yes all that stuff and I'm like oh yeah he did all that and then he did scuba and then he you know like everything that you've done that's why I was asking about languages like now you got Thai you got your you got like you know it's skills yeah yeah and there's tongue and I'm scratching the surface yeah exactly so lucky you know I was because it's not that I'm I was you know I'm not like some stellar super soldier I was very lucky and I always made sure that when opportunity knocked and it answered the door and that man that paid off big-time and then if I failed something I wouldn't say yeah fuck it man anything for me I'm like no I gotta age that shit cuz I won't be defeated that defeated me no there's no way I'm going back and kicking that ass damn so what was next what's the next one some because I was there through reunification that had to be Korea yeah that was cool that was cool shit so I was there through reunification so you know the wall came down 89 reunification 91 yes so I was there during that whole thing but now my job is drying up and I'm having a train the Bundys knowledge Dean's it's like a German FBI I'm pretty sure I got that right it's been a long time since I access that database but um so I have to train them and you know we're handing over that job because they just have to see the withdrawal now and all that I don't want any part of that so the next step was going to you know try to get my foot in the door and use the sock and so I went I got a slot to go to selection hmm Dave freaking one I break my ankle how'd you break your ankle so on the first day there's a.m. so no more yelling and screaming yeah there's no more that you know you're just thinking it starts with some a chalkboard and you're making sure you're not late late out of uniform and you're getting food too it's just now it's it's all big-boy rules you know it's a totally different game it's a totally different tests totally completely different you know it because it tests resolve and whether or not you have heart and if you're capable of deductive reasoning and if you are resolute and if you have yeah besides deductive deductive reasoning there's another term I'll think of it here a second but um so day one there's a I won't disclose too much of it just because I don't want to ruin it for people who may go in the future but there's a physical movement you know it's a movement and it's that night with a rock on it's nothing hard and I think it's they're kind of as a like a litmus test you know maybe to help the troll yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and you're on your own you're doing this thing on your own but it's at night now you're not but you know you're on dirt roads because you don't know it they haven't given you any training yet so you're on dirt roads and there's people periodically to guide you along the way and you have even have a flashlight so it's nothing you know it's nothing crazy it is just there to trim the fat and it does a good job at it because it'll tell whether or not you're there for the right reasons that'll that'll tell the Kadri but I'm coming down a hill and whenever you have the opportunity you know you double-time down hills just to make up time and I roll an ankle and I roll it so bad that I hear a crack and I knew it was the ankle you know the the sprain cracking but I felt bone in my shin too and man you know it's the worst feeling you know when for those of us who have had sprain it's a war it's a horrible feeling and a sprain is worse than a break I swear to god it's worse money there's no doubt about it I've done so many of them I've poured so much shit in my body that uh man I'd rather be broken then torn well the big difference is when you break a bone you put it you you put it back together you put a cast on it it heals up it's actually stronger than it was right you tear a ligament yep that thing is never this thing ever yeah if it even heals yep so you hammer the shit out of your ankle yeah I and I make it through this first movement and I think just I just make the time I don't know what the time is and then I end up walking on it for another week and a half I'm going over these mountains in West Virginia but there came a point where I where I say you know what this is a big boys game and they know I'm hurt because I went to see a doc the next day and my ankles you know like a football and they gave me some whatever some Ranger candy some gamma buffered aspirin or something like that and they gave me an ace wrap that's it but they knew I'm jacked up and I thought you know what these guys they they're gonna think Everts hearted they're gonna think I'm stupid then I'm you know that up so I I made it I made it I was I was making no ground I was getting weaker by the day so I sat by a dirt road waited for a Kadri car to come and I said hey I am I am volunteering volunteering voluntarily it was a hard pill to swallow but the thing is I had to do that and the guy said hey as long as you're not cheating yourself I said nope I am NOT and they invited me to come back well cuz they knew that I was jacked up you know if I volunteer if I wasn't jacked up there's no way you quit something like that there's no way but they knew that I was jacked up cuz I went I actually went and saw them the doc and I said hey can you give me something for this and he was like what what if you what if you just don't make the times would they said are you failed your out well I had one of those too is I didn't get to that point yet I didn't get to the stress phase of this course you know so it was just all the training that train but the I forget what it's called but like the Train yeah the training phase in our caring face it wasn't the graded portion yet so there was no there was no maximum time record taken whatever out and I felt that I was getting weaker weaker weaker every day um so yeah they invited me to come back and I took every bit of a year what I did to is I made a huge gamble I was in Germany and a volunteer to go to Swick Special Warfare Center and to me an instructor and four-year commitment I volunteered to go to that to get me to Fort Bragg to get me closer uh-huh and did you also figure like if I'm there and I'm all I'm doing his teaching I can get in good shape right sovereignity yeah yep but if I didn't make selection I would have been stuck in swiffer Forster so I knew it was a gamble but I said it's gonna get me there and it's gonna get me strong I'm not gonna have to go anywhere I'm not gonna you know like yeah it's it's very light duty and I worked out like a man possessed I took it I had a new kind of a perspective and a new strategy with the training I went very low impact so I did a lot of basically like anise in the tiny sprocket a lot of stair-climbing stuff like that a lot of like 40 repetition squats that kind of thing without a taste of it now what are we worried about like being able the hump though yeah yeah well I did that I humped but I didn't do a lot of it I didn't do a lot of breakdown what I did is I found am there was this massive helo pad at Fort Bragg right by where I was working so it's an elevated chunk of ground and it's elevated you know on all sides at an angle and I would do laps around that because now I'm walking on a on a traverse on an angle so I got all that friction you know and working my ankles and I would you laughs it was probably 400 yards around and I would every day I'd go over there and I would do lap after lap after lap and turn around lap after lap after lap after lap and turn around do the same thing and till my feet burnt because I wanted strong ankles and I wanted a tough tough tough feat because I already had some blisters when I went the first time that second time I didn't have a fucking blister I had a hot spot on the last exercise I had one hot spot yeah but I crushed it I crushed it next time every night I destroyed it I mean I had some bad days but when I went back man I I'm freakin I really I tore into it so what years what years this now that you might have you come back and you may 91 92 when I went back to yep 92 so so I'm thinking Gulf War yes it all just finished now I was still doing the Soviet stuff when people were doing the Gulf War huh yeah was that driving you crazy yeah because I was doing stuff yeah I was working you know and it yeah I was happy I was in boot camp torn I was just after boot camp during the first Gulf War yeah and they I remember watching the news and they said they were expecting us 40,000 casualties in the first 48 hours or something like that and I was like oh it's so hard it's so hard it's gonna be so long they're gonna I'm gonna get fast-tracked they're gonna put me in a freaking door gunner like now yeah Oh like you're gonna make it you replace and that's what's gonna happen so you get done and and so now you're uh you're there and everything's kind of leveled up your training freakin just like all the yeah well you know after selection I had to go through six months of OTC and you're on the bubble during that time I mean that's six months and there's no break in that six months I mean and you're on the freakin bubble bro man that I love it the way they reserve the right to fire your stinking ass at any freaking second for anything and that that went my whole I was I was at the unit for 13 years and I mean there were stellar dudes you know ten years in whoo that little mistake oh but but you want to work in a place like that you know you want to you want to be a part of that where dude and I remember there were guys who were great dudes who would have like I had this one friend who had a nd he was by himself and he went and turned himself in and was at it he's gone yeah but with Andy's there were certain things that you were they sent you packing for a year and you were you were able to get a relook certain negligent discharge yeah oops yeah yeah yeah yeah and they they didn't happen often but when you're constantly around guns you're constantly doing shit all you need is a momentary lapse of reason and that's it we are human beings we are capable of momentary lapse of reason and they they happen to the best dudes I know man the best dudes I knew so you ad yeah nd this is yes yes the verbage like I don't know but decade and a half ago there are no accidents it's negligent I don't know there's something there's some things that came from my eres what I never thought I never thought about half a yeah yeah yeah cuz I I've been on the range enough where I've seen where I've know that shit actually does happen I mean I've got some great stories that are actual a DS yeah yeah yeah like around the cooking off not like a a guy dropping his backpack and he's got it like an ALS holster on car key goes into the holster and fulcrums up boom is he's dropping his backpack Bogey's you know sure like that I've said a bunch of things like that I've seen guys with like in the summer time out in the desert cut it off yeah and they're like like I remember we were new guys and one of the guys with me he's shooting and all of a sudden you know he's kind of we're done we're kind of debrief and also cock he literally has held up his weapon like there is a there's another funny story what Jason Gardner told me this story there debriefing and this guy they're sitting there deeper to do kill house stuff they're debriefing and also like did the junior officer cracks off around at the feet of like the debrief group he like looked at the gun and he looks at the group and he goes he was decocking it he had like an out-of-body experience of explaining himself in the third person do I gotta have Jason Gardner because my buddy Jason who's Master Chief and he's been on the podcast couple times but he always tells everything in like a monotone voice so you know goes yeah so he cracks off around right at the feet of our of our group and then he shaking Leigh looks at everyone and says he was decocking so as you're doing this one other one of their skills are you now picking up I mean you aren't it's been easy I gotta figure out a place where there's money right and there's time and there's a mission yep let me think about it first up more driving I mean I've been through seven driving courses one of them was the Gary cynic motocross well we had dirt bikes you know and and it's a great mobility device but you need training on that thing so when I was a team sergeant out of mobility team I said I want the best training I want motorcross see in a supercross school but so driving training i mean more water stuff water water so riverine stuff you know it was cool I just thought about that they the dunk training like epic my oh yeah gratin thing yeah yep I did that uh but schools let me think he dunker yeah yeah oh my god they're so freakin much oh so the devil was the big thing with the unit you know but special specializing in that group were you were you're like a preacher yeah but everybody is a preacher at some point you know when you're an operator you're all you're a breacher at some point you know you you you you come on to a team as as assistant and then you work up to a breacher but then the amount of weapons to you know so not just crew serve stuff but like anti-tank and you know it's a holy crap because there's always something new emerging you can't just look around and do stuff you know all the time cuz more stuff is emerging what are the kind of church it just went on and on and on and on i mean it never the wheels on the bus went round and freakin round and the amount of hilo stuff that we did you know and and a lot of different environmental training so you know when we did winter training it was hardcore winter training well we did desert rating hardcore desert we did mountain it's hot you know all that stuff and then so a lot of environmental stuff bracket i mean eight yeah i wish i wish i was tasked with the homework assigned prior so I could have written those things down because it but it's cool because it's cool cuz I I forget about how much shins and I've learned mmm the amount of shit that I've forgotten could probably you know fill volumes and but every once in longer oh yeah like Rebecca and I watch a TV show I go yeah I've done that you have yeah I trust me I've done that and you're shooting just all stop insane yep yep all the time and then not only that but as cool as we were encouraged to compete you know on national level with the shooting stuff so and I'm not just talking action shooting like epic but I also did national match mm you know like bullseye stuff yeah I competed in the ol army small arms championship too in 2004 right before I retired so I was a teen I and the unit sent me down there as a like a recruiting trip and that's competition I ever went to now they did preface it with a you know you got to win this thing now no freaking I tell you that was not easy I did but it wasn't easy task cuz you got like 250 competitors and you got these I am the army guys the are my marksmanship guys who do that right they do you got rangers snipers 82nd snipers because when you show up to that type of competition you all look the same every same haircut same uniform same m16a2 iron sights same sidearm same ammo yeah same am everything's the same sex that car racing exactly just like that so no mechanical advantage with anything nothing and then you start this week-long competition you know in the first several days it's all national match rifle at 500 yards iron sights grandeur shooting you know 77 greenseer match Black Hills you shoot good ammo so you're you know you're really eight you're able to group with these with these with these rifles but after the rifle portion I was sitting good I was hot you know like out of 250 people I was probably like 225 but when the pistol pour she came up I crushed everybody so was that because it thankfully was a combined agri so I was able to yeah I was able to whoo-hoo I did not want to go back to you and say yeah I came in third or something like that you know I got beat by a p4 from Division where will you when September 11th kicked off so I was at that time I was a TC instructor so operator trainers course instructor I was on the range teaching our OTC students CQB one guy had a piece of equipment going down I saw I'll go get it I'll go get it for you just give me that and I'll go D exit for you so I Drive back down to the main buildings go in and the that's for the guy from supply is watching the TV and one of the planes had already hit and I said what happened there he goes on some plane hit one of the trade what a World Trade Center towers and I go huh huh was it actually because I looks like it's me because at the time that's what it was and it busts people you couldn't grasp the gravity of how big those buildings are you know they thought it was a Cessna huh I completely thought it was asthma yeah that's every time B could those Billy's are gigantic so we're both watching it and then I saw alive the second one go in and we both just dude when you when you watch that shit lot happened now I didn't see another news as a repeat I watched it live and I heard the news that the announcer go home oh boy oh oh alright nope this is no accident you know now holy fuck so I got this piece of kit boogie-down range and we did an admin halt brought everybody back into the chow hall big TVs on it so they get kind of a update and then brought him back to the shoot house Iran CQB how long did it take from there before before you got over to Johnny it I was you know bummed out bro you learned in Swat was an instructor not only that but they asked me to do another six months on top of my two-year stay because there was a course that they were putting together for somebody else and they wanted me to build this course I'm going oh my god squadrons are already on their second to pull it bro and yeah this is the crazy third deployment so it's funny because when I get over there I I remember the first night I'm with this dude I put through selection and OTC he's a staff sergeant and I'm at nine and he goes oh Mack it's so cool that I'm doing hits with you here I said yeah bro it's night you're in charge of me he goes huh I said how many hits you got country 125 I said well I got zero oh yeah goose egg so when you went over you went over you would tell me earlier like you went over it's like a an ops position or something yeah initially I went over as a in an ops position position with the wood and it's a funny thing we didn't even touch on this one I went over to work with the unit's supports support squadrons and so I was working with all and these guys with no training and they're going outside of the green zone and all that to get resupplied they're going there make it by app runs to get a diesel you know going down route Cyrus yeah bro and soft-skinned hovers you know because weird nothing was up armored you know and so I'm driving with them scared scarce ever been in my life going with Kooks to get freaking food I'm one man security detail I got comms hey are our m4 mags and I'm good I'm out there flapping I'm one man security detail for due to have zero training they got guns and stuff but I know that that that that stay scared the shit out of me the amount of freaking rounds that the support guys were taken and I'm going go go you know because we mobility survivability I'm like dude first lesson it's hard to shoot a moving target you were not these other we're not driving 50 miles an hour fuck that as fast as the vehicle could go change lanes under bridges you know that kind of stuff all that old-school shit I mean yeah that scared the hell out of me and then I would do a couple hits with them yeah working squadron but when I got back in between between those I built a course called CSC combat skills course it's a two-week course for dollar support outlet and it was they loved it for sure they freaking loved it they were because you start with BRM basic rifle marksmanship you know and then movement with a rifle and then security positions working barricades driving and then you know react to freaking IEDs you know all this stuff so you ratchet contact move to from all that stuff so we did all in just two weeks of non-stop balls-to-the-wall basic training combat skills training and the fulfillment I got out of that was ridiculous I've loved doing that so much it was the job is hard it's freaking sucked but you know these cooks and law guys you know seeing them freaking rip rounds shoot 80 floors and stuff and then when I go back to Iraq walking around we got a hit it's kind of vanilla but the cool thing was to when no matter how vanilla the freaking hit was guys were treating it as if it were you know HVT mmm you know high-value target I was like hell yeah but there was a couple of vanilla hits where I'd go and get my cooks and say hey you guys wanna hold on I'll hit me they're like really icy yeah and I put him on you know security position with a with a saw or or mag 58 but dude third fucking combat bro yeah yeah yeah one of the cooks even got the freaking Wow yeah I got to let it rip yeah I had I had my radio man my radio man from my Tactical Operations Center right and he was the guy that kind of ran things and one night we were going on off it was pretty pretty close to base you know kind of a no-brainer and I needed it but we had a bunch of people to coordinate with and I said hey man you know you can you come out with me tonight and you know just man the radio he gets the big eyes because you know hey let's face it I mean even though I was saying there's no big deal man there was guys getting wounded oh he'll never say so even though I thought it was no big deal his eyes got real big and he's like he's like yeah yes sir and so we get out and we did by this point this was oh six we had our armored armored Humvees and we get on target and um you know I'm out we got multiple targets going down and I'm the GFC so I'm kind of conducting and seeing what's going on and and I walk over and he's in the Hummer and I go over and I kind of like crack the door open I was like hey man you want to come out and you know like you know I'll show you what's up what's going on he's like um good to go right here just chill but I'm he's a great guy it all kinds of good work for me but you know we do that with the with the support people because it's they just they don't get good training right and and so they're normally not super comfortable yet rolling out I had a I had a CD - who is this giant black dude awesome guy named Becky and yeah biggie he was he was awesome but we took him on a couple where we had work to do we had worked for the CBS to do at some locations and man you know seed heavy talking about big he turned from biggie just a big eyes awesome and one time we got hit we got hit with get hit with mortars in the camp and they blew up our big water tank and so he was just you know he was a CB which Seabees are known for you know acquiring things so he went out in the next few hours and acquired a brand new like giant water tank we're talking you know I don't know how many but as big as this room that we're sitting yeah a giant he brings back another one on a crane him and Peters yeah it all filled up in water and you know I said hey man hey I go hey chief that's awesome man really appreciate it appreciate you know taking care of us he goes man I'll do whatever I got to do to help you guys as long as there ain't no more boom-boom in the camp I saw biggie warming up with 315 on bench warming up ten reps he wasn't playing around yeah yeah and so so the second time when you went back and you guys are doing these hits so now what years that Oh fine yeah so things like before am i right oh yeah yeah things things escalated a lot between o4a l5 yep I guess somewhere vote for was starting to get gnarly right oh five and are you guys are you guys are going out and targets reload I mean yeah a lot of times like recaulk right there on the on the spot so battlefield interrogation all right this guy knows so-and-so let's go friggin split the force and go check these dudes out and then BAM police them up a lot a lot of cool black police work you know snatchin do is III tell people like people who don't know you know when you're trained and when you live in that kind of unit killing a dude isn't very hard snatching up a dude requires requires a lot of freaking work you know especially with like let's say plausible deniability or no trace that kind of thing so I love that kind of stuff that was to me that was there was a lot of fun as interesting you know snatching dudes up out of their beds and crap like that but it was um the op tempo was was really high and what I appreciated was being basically like a cherry you know it I was a private e9 yeah you know that's probably the only place in the in the world in the military where you have the opportunity to do that be an e 9 door kicker I mean I had this one night because it was like my third night going into Fallujah on my own little bird mmm I was following in a team and we're you know land and rooftops and that the third night in a row they had me on the planning board as task force man it was killed you know what they were doing they were giving me an opportunity to make up ground because they had been getting some and I've been left freaking back so they were like yeah we're gonna you know yeah yeah going in hi yeah yeah it was cool shit but seeing all the level at which dudes operated seeing that cuz I was almost from like an outside perspective you know looking around go holy fuck man this is pro this is badass well I think the whole US military obviously I mean this goes without saying but the just am at the experience I mean I always tell people they're always a little bit surprised but you know I didn't shoot my weapon at the enemy for 13 years right you know in the SEAL team 13 years of and I think I locked my locked and loaded my weapon prior to that like three times all on this stupid light I was kind of fired up because we were doing security for something right I got to lock and load my weapon I was kind of pumped yeah yeah right yeah but then but was until 13 years but the amount of combat that we have had now a US military repetition after repetition after repetition and one thing I noticed is like well on my first deployment which was o3 we you know we were good at doing you know building takedowns and you do room clearance and we were we were good at it by the time I went back in oh six man everybody was too everyone could you know everyone could just there was no factor it was like hey oh you want to take down this building Cole we got this it was it had brought everybody up to a much better level and I always I think about this now all the time just the experience that we have now you know a mission that would have seemed like a huge deal in 1996 right you wouldn't even know it wouldn't even crack the bump on a radar like that was cool right right yeah not even close yeah it was so the amount of experience that we've gained and and and you know even when I watch new platoons come in to relieve us and like occasionally I'd be in that spot like looking at my tasks looking at one of my platoons moving down the street and you just seen you got man these guys are so good I mean everybody's moving it's like weapons trained everywhere it's so efficient then you see like a new troop coming in and you look at him you go they'll clean it up today because you can tell by his demeanor you know my is just a body language alone you know you you just the silhouette you know who that guy is oh sure little wet yeah for sure when you uh so now it's you do you knock out a couple deployments what what makes you decide to get out what makes you decide to retire I had up some of it was and I don't mind talking about this because it's good lesson learned shit a lot of it was because of domestic messiness I had little kids at home and they had a they weren't being brought up right I needed to be there for them I had already long you start to think what when you when you lose buddies that are close to you you start to you know reflect and you you start to be very objective and you exercise introspection and you go dude man if that's me I don't really care you know I'm just some dude but I'm gonna leave my kids dry because they don't have the other their other half sucks mm-hmm you know they're their mom at the time really sucked so I got out because I had little kids and they needed they needed me because they didn't have the other half of that name the other half sucked bad and it was a it was a because of the problems stem from its big pharma shit you know prescription meds it's not a drug problem if it's you know prescription meds that freaking big pharma bro they've shipped pisses me off but so I watch the deterioration of a human being over you know a long time big pharma engine she freaking just sucked so but I had to I had to do it and and you know initially I thought this is a great idea but man it wasn't long before I ran into just feeling horrible about myself and missing the hell out of it what was the time span between you made the decision that you're gonna retire and like how when you retired I've made a decision the first time I pushed to Iraq at the 22 year mark because I was nine I needed to stay in grade for three years and complete the Academy to keep inai on my retired retirement ID card kind of thing so I wanted to make sure that I retired with that stuff so yeah I made that decision got the Academy right before I retired I think I did the Academy and retire two days later and then you retire did what was your plan when you retired I had no plan there you go zero check but I got a fire job offers like yeah I got hired prior to retiring there you go couple months so that becomes the plan yep and the thing is that's a little hanging fruit I don't recommend that to people that low hanging fruit shit man you know working for the man fuck that and this is what I'm 505 so contracting is still oh yeah good money yep yeah this is before the market that want to return to another shithole yep the reason I got out was to be there for my kids so I didn't want to you know make a shit ton of money and deploy get right freakin 90 days without the big green machine at my six for sure because that now I lost some buddies do it contracting stuff too and it was just kill me bro I was killing oh my god so it was the job that you go so which it was basically doing what I'm doing now ish but for a corporation it I was doing the instruction thing and I was built and uh this unit called the AWG mmm asymmetric warfare group yep if I was build a bad you sent some people over to me and Ramadi yeah and I was the other thing I was doing was I built a course called Katzie combat applications training course and we were training big army I recruited a couple other guys couple guys like me retired unit guys and we were training big army at five day course and I loved when we first started it we were doing training first Brigade 82nd Airborne Division 4th brigade 4th Brigade photogate was fitted for a little while and I love that these guys were so badass you know that there were ephors with two deployments for sure and with combat wounds yeah stuff by the way two deployments that work 13 right 13 months yes yeah and they were so badass and their soldier skills were you know so far surpassed than what I had seen in like the 90s reserve so that was once again very fulfilling you know running these guys hard getting really good training and make it a focus on the fundamental fundamentals fundamentals be an expert at the basics you know that was that still is my thing but that was our thing when we were training the cat C program expert on the basics and fundamentals so that was fun I did that for a few years and then I got um I got laid off what the fuck does that mean you don't know it you have note what your career military yeah and then you're working for you know a company that does government contracting shit is all retired military you're not even thinking job security that's not even that's not a part of your thought process you don't go bad at now you can say oh hope I don't get fired tomorrow if you don't think that you don't think it so laid off things yeah and I didn't even see the writing on the wall cuz I'm dumb I'm on corporate America I don't know any of that stuff so the company got bought out and they started to you know cut corners from the fat pitch pennies all that stuff and I was thinking oh yeah we got to do it you know I got to cut those corners got to pinch those pennies I wasn't thinking about me cost money and they laid me off with a phone call man a phone call you know now you face to face and the feeling cuz I was already down at that time I was really bummed out I was um I was in a dark dark place I was going through depression and I was freaking drinking on the job that I could not on the range I would bring like a Jack and Coke to work in a kid a big coca-cola bottle and stuff like that I was hating life I was miserable and that's what you got your your I guess she's your ex-wife now she's dragging things down yeah no support whatsoever disconnected from your former teammates that you spent your entire life with has no concept about that stuff and not only disconnected from that but disconnected from reality because of like prescription meds and stuff so no connection between the neuroreceptors just dark space every once in a while target of opportunity you know a moment of clarity but now all that shit sucked bad then getting laid off you know on top of it was like holy fucking then the other half say no just get a job with another company and I'm like fuck that man I want to do something else so I called three guys who owned owned companies all good friends of mine all xunit guys and they all said the same thing yep I will get you back I will get you work if you need it but do it man do it yourself you can you have the ability to do this so they all gave me permission to be my own guy the best thing that ever could happen to me because I was 10 years ago and I generated my company Tmax and it just freakin detonated as it went batshit I mean there's absolute flows it's scary you running your own business you know there's absolute flows not you know like ripped off by a promoter we'll had to go through the sequestration 2013 all that deficit spending bullshit where I had all government contract stuff for the year and then that like switch one out and you are on no money none at the same time I'm going through divorce you know and dude that was hard that was hard but that was good it was freaking odd it was so good those kind of lessons learned you know you really grow it as a human being based on how you how you come out of a bad situation like that you know how how how you for me it was making lemonade out of lemons mm-hmm you know and trying to rekindle my past trying to remember who I was what I'm here for what my purpose is and then I had to get myself meaning you know well I needed to be there needed to be a reason for me to get up every freakin day a new mission yeah every day new mich yep because that's what especially special objects not just military guys of a Special Op cast they need that perp they need that mission so without meaning without purpose you you could you could falter he could short-circuit yourself you could you know start slipping in the dark places and you were slipping there dude I almost capitulated I was close i I mean I was dark I was at the bottom bottom and then I it was a it was a it it was glasses for years I lived in the bonus room above my garage for five years I lived in the bonus room above my garage I wasn't a drunkard but I was drinking all day so nobody knew it you know that I was that I was medicating nobody knew it because I would just all day long all day long you know eleven o'clock in the morning start and I had no I mean I would go to work I would get jobs and I was faking it I was faking that you know did you saw him but I go you know I'm all that I was just faking the Mack show just faking it nobody knew where I was nobody had any idea cuz I had no I wasn't like hanging I had no close friends or anything like that my kids were my close friends and they were my kind of my sanctuary I must escape you know hanging out with them are you still working out at that time not very much I mean I'm getting by because everything that I did my might might now X thought it was because I was having an affair you know so there is no other explanation from you work and how other than wanted to fuck somebody you know there's no explanation everything that I did was because it's an affair and I had in her mind I mean it was bad when people wouldn't you know people when I say yeah my ex is crazy thing oh I know what you're talking about oh yeah yeah I say no man I'm not talking bitch you're cut I'm talking to legit crazy I had a girlfriend imaginary girlfriend living in her closet for four years her name was Skeeter I would come home and the cops would be at my house she had taken all the light switch panels off and showing the cops that there are blue washers because a bug in the house you know stuff like that I would come home for Ford I remember doing this one trip for up 24th STS you know CCT guys badass dudes for days trading hours wiped out man I was smoked and I was coming back from oops up by uh Moyock you know yeah so for me it's like a five-hour drive and i am i back in my drive with the truck and I'm looking to rear view mirror and all my shoes in the driveway it's all on the driver and she's sitting on a stool she's going through like my tackle box you know and all my tools it it's all just everything she's looking for clues or something you know that was that was just I remember that night that was the straw that broke the camel's back and she called the cops at night cops came and they said hey can you stay somewhere else I go yep absolutely because there been a hotel that I've been going to mm-hmm it was just a mile down the road next day one the cops calls calls me and he says um can I talk to you so I said where yeah he said I'm at your house I Drive there he goes hey I ran into your wife in the village she's frigging doped out of her mind he said brother that he knew who I was where I came from and stuff like that very nice guy he goes you need to take the radical steps and you need to get the fuck outta here I know you're in it for the kids kids are resilient they will handle they will be able to handle it but you need to get the fuck out and I was go man I was broke down because nobody at that until that nobody I rely I felt that I was all alone in the world that I was going through this shit you know that nobody had any idea the cops had seen it cuz they'd been there many times but um that night I get jacked up again and I'm with my sweet son James and I'm talking to him and and I remember telling him how old is he at this Hayes probably and we see 13 what would it was seven okay and he said I said James I don't just love you I am in love with you and he started crying that really meant something to him you know it really meant something and then I realized fuck man this kid really digs me you know really freaking Daisy so I he fall asleep I take him to bed and I go back up into my bonus room and I realized that I need to make a change now this has to happen now so that hole that I was looking at that I was almost capitulated to you know I'm at the bottom of the hole it was like an epiphany where I I'm not letting this this bitch burying me I will not be defeated I am not buried I have been planted you know it was it was this moment of clarity I had I put out my running shoes and put my my my ipod I ya iPod out my headphones put out some shorts and I said all right set an alarm clock I'm gonna go for a run tomorrow no plan just let me go clear my head got up full of piss and vinegar put the shit on and I ran and I'm not a ground pounder I like the sprint I like running but I ran for about an hour and a half just non-stop I just kept running around town you know got back in my driveway I'm starving and I look at the house and I'm going oh this is the house where dreams gonna die I don't want to go inside so I stay in my driveway I work out for like another two hours just up and down I have some dumbbells and they I pull it bar and I just workout for like another two hours I mean to the point of like incapacitation but that was it that was my that was my rebirth thinking there's no way I'm gonna be defeated by this there's no way and I I am not buried I have been planted but that was the beginning of the whole and then with the cop coming the day before mmm it's saying get the fuck out so that day I got the fuck out grabbed your shit and left yeah it was just 500 yards away I found a condo because I didn't want to be far from my kiddies yeah for sure so it was like 500 yard as a crow flies and just but you know I didn't need things I needed my guns and some tools and that kind of stuff and packed up what I what I could and just freaking boogied yeah and started that arduous process of domestic messiness and lasted for a long time with me because I was trying to get custody to at the time and trying to do that in North Carolina it's like pulling freaking teeth yeah ladies you need um there got to a point where I was going the cop said go see the magistrate in magistrate I went to the magistrate magistrate I pleaded my case magistrate says you need to call Mobile's Mobile crisis management call Mobile crisis management and they say you need to talk to her shrink I go to the shrink they won't talk to me they say go tell the police so send me in a big circle mmm so I finally talked mobile crisis management into they said we're voluntary they have to voluntarily commit themselves as can you least talk to her so they talked to her they came out said yes paranoid and delusional no doubt I said so what does it take she goes there has to be basically in in the state something horrible happen has to happen first like let me set the house on fire let me drown the kid that kind of thing then okay now it's okay you got yeah it's I said are you fucking shitting me this is how it works I said you're basically that's what those are my words I said basically what you're telling me is something horrible happens have to first and they said yeah that's exactly what I'm telling you something horrible happen it has to happen first as you as you look back at this yep like from your perspective right now because a lot of guys that a lot of veterans got guys that have gotten out and a lot of guys you know they have a rough time with it is there advice straight up when when a guy is looking at the abyss when a guy's thinking everything sucks when a guy's thinking they lost their job their wife's acting crazy whatever all these things pile up is there advice that you have for guys that get in that situation what I always tell people is like you need to find a new mission that's exactly what I mission or I say purpose or meaning you so and meaning could be volunteering somewhere it could be going to the gym you know saying it's all semantics yeah but you have to have purpose and meaning you have to find those things so one other thing this is a funny this I volunteer every day I have five guys I train at my gym it's grown us I do a voluntary voluntary but they're relying on me to show up you know so it's again they always say thanks bro man because I'm changing their lives these are guys I know they work in the community the you know it's my mechanic my up the owner of my pub those kind of things but you know I'm changing their lives but the other thing I tell them is bro thank you because you know you're getting me here you're getting here you keeping me on my programming and you're giving me purpose and meaning I'm still gonna probably freakin get some anyway because that's who I am but you know you're keeping me on schedule keeping me on track that kind of thing so thank you but yeah you got to have that you know new mission statement purpose and meaning you got to have those things especially guys who've been in for a long freakin time and sometimes it pisses me off because I'll have guys ask for advice and they'll say yeah I'm in a dark spot you know I'm loving life and and kids who love me and I want to tell them bro fuck you you know what because I had to do that shit without that with hate with disdain and that's your reason right there man that's your mission you got a wife a freak digs the hell out of you it supports everything you do you know that's your queen bro lay out the friggin carpet maker your mission is to make her coffee cook for her clean your house or whatever it is I don't know make a lot of money so she's comfortable yeah and then what was it as your business grew like what was them what was some things that that kind of accelerated your business I think the big thing is I don't you know all my eggs aren't in one basket that's a big one but because that business is good but I been hit before by like sequestration and stuff like that it could be a mo crisis or whatever because basically my businesses is uh you know shooting combat marksmanship close quarter battle those kind of things um that works well that runs well because I have my own brand of training methodology and you know it can't be replicated we're all teaching basically the same thing it's just that how do you deliver that you know what is your delivery platform how do you reel it because that's what people are buying I mean you could teach somebody to squeeze the trigger the same way I can but how do you deliver that message and then you know what words do you use and what demonstrations can you put together and how is this important or why so that business goes good and then I just I keep putting some jam and shit into the pipeline you know when I mean I still don't want a man when opportunity knocks I'm like yep I'm snatch that up I'm doing that and it's been a double-edged sword because the last couple years I've got really smoked so this year I cut back on courses and I'm gonna work more out of like home do more mentoring and coaching click online stuff and you know some more product that kind of thing mm-hmm what kind of products you selling well you know I get the band's the get you so bad and those are you know everyone smile get them in stock and it's not something I have con the constant flow of because I have to order them family made I've got a a sling ding you know that's for an AR it's kind of like a modular monopod I got books I got uh what kind of product do I have not a lot not not as I'll have like a store you know t-shirt yeah yeah yeah in case somebody wants to get you scope yes and that's what the teachers get use of that that's one of them get your blaze off dog get you blaze on thank you when you were you uh like I've seen some of your stuff where you've got like blaze ops your 45s rapid alright yeah are those like them available well those everyone smiled you collaboration got it with a guy you know and so I did one with them because I know someone that needs a blazer 5 only 25 of those were made we got to do another run yeah yeah well I'm collaborating right now with another company to do a different one so it's it's it's very fledgling right now it's in its infancy but but I've done uh like a knife you know a night by one company I've done three different guns different gun companies working on another one right now it's just good collab you know build partnerships with companies for sure yep sometimes they work well sometimes either done yeah well not everybody out there is there's some there's some slimy motherfuckers out there is indeed yeah uh I mean look dude it's been it's been over two hours yeah but so all the stuff that you're doing right now you're getting after you got you got um t max T max ink.com yep that's where people go to hook up with your training which I looked at your schedule you said you're not doing as much yeah your calendars yeah already hacked it's not much more than two courses a month though you know for the reef for the year but you do them in different locations yes people can go on there you know and what I was gonna say was you're like hey look you know people can shoot and and there's you know thousands and thousands of guys that are really good with pistol and then you kind of mentioned but you know it's a methodology but also look I instruct humanity leadership all time that's what I do and there's a bunch of people that teach leadership yep there's a there's a communication skill set that you have right where what you can do is convey the message properly that so people actually absorb it right that's the important part I'd like to say that you know the big thing about teaching is you have to be the right person is gonna say the right thing to the right person at the right time it's important to know what to say but more important to know what not to say and the message has to be palatable too and then you know it has to resonate with resonate and be relevant but yeah man it's I love doing that I love the teaching thing and those courses are for everybody yes yeah I do open enrollment course no they're forever so I get the full gamut of people I think most of them are sold out this year I think the only one open I have a woman's course in a beginners course I've never taught either round where is every gainers course because every Charles is signing up they're both they're both in North Carolina 500 Carolina Charles yep I'll bring my party mix right so we got so we got d-max ink.com then you also have combat strength right training and it's a combat strength training EUCOM yeah which is where and you got look uh one of the reasons I didn't talk a bunch about this is because you've got awesome videos online you talk about what you're doing you show what you're doing right you got those courses clearly your based on and I hate to use the word functional right because everyone you know right but if go and look at your your stuff what you're doing you can see clearly these are drills skills conditioning based on being able to function in a wide variety of environmental situations yeah the functional thing is overused and abused I'll say it's exercise for the real world maybe I think that what we do or what I put together it's all about life saving your ass kicking you know those are essentially and I put a lot of free information out there on my institutions amidst agreement yeah insta and and the workout stuff that I put on there it's not hubris or gloating it's it's about hey this is a power day example because guys will buy my programming and if they run out of curriculum or ideas they could just go back and say alright power they strike they speed quickness all right yeah those are good ideas yeah so man it's it's a great freaking platform and that's what I use it for information no nope so those are the two Tmax ain't calm you've got combat strength training calm you got a facebook which is t max inc you've got your Instagram yet would you say no Bologna hope he calls it the Graham capital capital G per gram and and yours uh you do all kinds of you the other thing you do you talk about theirs which is which is awesome is you give people a little heads-up on you know you are your own protection yes yeah alright so so they said no sermons yep so teaching people a man there's some things to think about yep and everybody could use those things right because the world is not a happy peaceful place all the tonight yep and it's really easy to lose track those echo you got anything then I got a my youtube channel to Pat Mac YouTube channel oh yeah and those are great shooting drills you got its me off every time I see it cuz I know you're like a either at your gym at your house at your range and I'll of course live in California it's in a city yes so you can only you know luckily I get to shoot my bow but I'm not cracking off rounds out my back your time I see you right live in a fast roping cracking off rounds I get so pissed I'm like well I'm moving to North Carolina yeah come on free America we gotta go no your bicep like what what's the status on it's good I mean if you know like if you were to look at me armed arm comparison one smaller than the other and there's a big scholar on you know well you said it it tore on them on the model ah so DBS surgery they yes yeah yeah it was very freaking meatball surgery army vs the Uni euro private they gave that to like a doctor the stars gnarly it's all keloid it's like that why you know yeah it's yeah but it's a 502 world for this eat or each yeah we have my operated on yeah yeah the tendon the right yeah that's different yeah but it works them yeah yeah I'll get all my surgeries because I've had a bunch of them there everything's good man I'm feeling pretty good but I attribute that to how I train and I take care of myself so I work out pretty freakin smart a little more tentative now because I'm 55 freakin years old when it comes to like mix it up grappling free you know that kind of thing I don't need to get jacked up while training it's called Fitness not brokenness the other thing is I got my own podcast right on a university a badass that's right yeah that's right cool with CJ and what CJ's deal he's the metal motivator so he used to be a preacher yeah so we've got a pretty good kid dynamic cuz he's got a gift of oratory bro I mean like I couldn't jack his jaws and he makes religion cool too but he's like a metalhead right yeah yeah yeah his moniker online is the metal motivator right on yeah right oh that's funny you sound better we often you guys put out that podcast not offered enough like once a month and a half mmm something like that yeah but it's fun it's all upbeat you know just yeah positive messaging and stuff like that right oh man right on anything anything else what do we miss anything overall I just really I appreciate the opportunity to be sitting here with you and like I said man the interweb is a cool place if you use it right you know if you use that thing right it's it's it's a great platform that can help others and then I get to I get to meet guys like you you know and you think you it's like dude you know you because the interweb just a feeling I get every time yeah well hey man thanks for coming on so glad you came out to California right now you know thanks for your 22 years on the grind who they don't taking that taking us as a nation from the Cold War to the war on terror you know if it wasn't for guys like you that that kept those skills up during all that time that we wouldn't have been ready for you know what we faced on the battlefield so yeah thanks for your service brother and I could roll that's what I'm talking about thank you sir right on and with that Pat Mack has left the building and we are here should be hopefully let's just say enthusiastic about improving our skill sets sure in life agree in all aspects yes sometimes it might be hard to figure out of all these skill sets where am I going to put my focus how do I prioritize and execute selecting proper skill sets to improve on yeah what do you recommend echo Charles bull I recommend you did too but interestingly right so Pat Mack he's over here jumping at all opportunities to improve his skill sets every training scenario he was offered jumped on it you know then when you wind up with a lot of skill set yeah very good so many skill sets that you kind of forget you have them until the moment comes and you're like oh you know I can do that right did that yeah it's true so don't let get what skill sets you have until it's time to disarm a Bulgarian landmine and you I got no school for that so don't let you get to not be one of those skills yes I'm saying it you know I we didn't even talk about the fighting skills with Pat Mac for some reason yeah cuz he's you know he does stand up he does the jujitsu he his jurors Jim is primarily an MMA gym actually mm-hmm so anyways we including including hat Mac agree what is one skill shet set that you can utilize just about everywhere legit it's true so when we train you do we need to do segi if we're doing G which we recommend doing G so we are in fact doing ki so get an origin G that's the answer BES Keef actually in the world many options quality arguably luxury arguably oh is that kind of a is that is that a problem for me I don't know problem when I put on my rig II am I kind of you're in let me you're in the lap of luxury for sure it does feel that way when you put on a rift key very luxurious yes sir nonetheless it's functional as well turn more importantly yeah just so happens to be made in America that's not there just so happens and it's made in America America through the determination yeah the determination of the people of America on purpose well you're not happy instead screen up on purpose there was people that said it couldn't be done by the way Pete Roberts told all those people really yeah and it's cool to make G's in America unfortunately it's not cool that you can't wear your gear all the time you know I guess that's not right that's not cool I mean you I guess you pull let me rephrase that you could wear your gear all the time but you might get some funny looks at the supermarket so have you ever worn your key outside the gym yeah him nauseam yeah so one time actually me no one time mm-hmm where where I was up later then my lovely wife I didn't want to go in the room and like disturb her maybe wake her up or something like that to go get it jack it was kind of cold so I was wondering how you got a gr I needed a jacket scenario what's going on but I didn't want to disturb so I'm like looking around for just I don't know anything I don't want to put a blanket on myself while I'm on the computer it seemed Ken I don't know I mean I guess I could have but it kind of snot functional you know you don't get in the way when you're typing you gotta read anyway I find the risky I put it on it works seems safe yeah so that they're there O's they're sitting there wearing my top outside of the gym and what we wearing we were in pants joggers no I don't shorts I probably was not wearing shorts if it was cold but good point to be honest not a good point Fabio because I wear shorts when it's called ball time yeah but your legs don't get cold of it you know that is me you know yeah I don't know I don't remember but I think it was pants of some sort all right nonetheless yes we're getting or Jinky yes and because you can't wear a geek unless your echo Charles in your house don't want to wake up your wife yes most of the time you don't want to wear Aggie around if you need pants guess what you can get jeans origin jeans origin jeans which are also made 100% in America and we just released the second version of the jeans which are the first version was called the factory jeans they're a heavy weight heavier weight I guess technically be a medium weight but we have now launched the Delta 68 genes which are light weight people ask are they what is the word flexible is that the work yeah stretch stretch yes they are they're they're they're made to move you can do a full deep squat workout in your jeans they're not jeggings though you know what jeggings are no they're leggings but jeans oh no no they just look like jeans but they're leggings oh so they're not jeggings kind of a violation of like humanity with that hey you're the one who said to the stretch she said the word stretch not meet you so unless we gotta clarify so Delta 6g8 jeans have some give you know let's just say that and some giving them their lounge analogy some freedom of movement you and do a high kick or something like this and fine right you're good okay boom ain't gonna tell 268 jeans are in the house as it were also Gers comfortable Jokers for people that wear John Rogers in the event of you wearing joggers boom or Jemaine dot-com that's where you get this stuff also supplements Jocko our supplements important they are important and not to split it and not to get put to a sharp of a point on it mmm but it depends what kind of supplements true true I recommend that you put supplements that allow you to get after it at the top of your list I eat joint warfare yes sir I eat krill oil super grill joints in the game your joints aren't in the game you're not in the game straight up you know discipline discipline go discipline go pills discipline go in a can you're gonna need more protein guess what you might as well get a protein that tastes like dessert you don't have to punish yourself with protein remember those days if you want an extra protein it was a punishment it was a punishing yeah if you want to do good on like you could get the can you know how like mega male mass 5,000 I don't know if you read this morning's a big thousand rupees 5000 yeah it's in a big bag huge thing but tasted pretty good but I I'm fairly searching there is like straight-up sugar and all the stuff and maybe like technically I might add some protein in there but it was like 5,000 calories or something like this yeah was just you see I'm saying so Molk you don't need to drink that junk anymore now you can drink milk mint strawberry mint strawberry vanilla chocolate and peanut butter yeah good stuff Dan who also got warrior Kid milk you can hook that up for your children why would you give your children poison nobody's give them milk I'll tell you the reason man short-term versus long-term is everything everything can be broken down the short-term versus long-term so you can even kids poison as it were or these supremely unhealthy items for short-term gain to keep them quiet to keep them from complaining to make to put a temporary smile on their face you know why you do it use I don't you think that's the case man I just think you don't know you just don't know now yes you're right you go okay hey I got this strawberry drink beverage it's gonna keep my kid quiet make them happy you don't even know that there's an option that there's something that could keep him quiet make them happy and make them stronger yeah and smarter and better yeah so you know how like we you or we whatever we'll discuss that really most things pretty much everything in life can be broken down into short-term and long-term like battles right most of the time by most I don't know really what I mean by most but we'll the same most of the time usually if you choose short-term it's at the expense of the long-term usually there are exceptions every once in a while you get something that fulfills both short-term and long-term sushi in my opinion or your kid monk mmm-hmm that's another exception short-term gains short-term sure long-term not only says section but long-term gains and by the way you can get all this stuff including Jaco white tea at the vitamin shop or you can get everything that we just talked about at origin Maine the state ma I and e-comm it's true also chocolate store it's called chuckle store and this is where you can get your very own t-shirts very own rash guard more rash guards more representative of this path that we're all on hats hoodies I don't know if I said hoodies already but they're on there some women's stuff on there too real good stuff good way to support and more importantly good way to represent yeah it's a good bone of Fiji's when you're out in the field Oh big time you're just Airport you're representing and all of a sudden someone goes they give you the nod they give you the nod and we know if something goes down we know at least one person we can count on yeah they're with some old of Dedes it's too got attention Jeff course shirt on you like that we this guy's got my back you from the game he knows quitting flag fully also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on your iTunes or stitcher where ever you listen to it it's a good benefit to subscribe right you get the episode right in your look I don't know if you call it the inbox or what but you get it on your phone and also don't forget that we have the grounded podcast it's true and the warrior kid podcast and don't forget if you're if you like the warrior kid idea you can support one warrior kid named Aiden who makes soap at Irish Oaks Ranch calm do we have it up on our site yet currently we were finalizing some stuff but I did get my sample of the killer soap and approved big-time right your smells kind of good too yeah one of these flowery ones oh no I dig it here's the thing I'm not mad at flowery soaps I am okay I dig it I fully big it but I am NOT in fact everyone's well I appreciate a little know maybe not necessarily flowery but you know like it's like Irish like a you know like a refreshing you see I'm saying unless the killer soap has a scent to it's mild but an approved scent to it well like it's tea tree oil yeah but but there's some ascent no well it has tea tree oh but what it actually smells like to me is mint like a it's just and it's this what about the visual effect yes yeah that's a cool so it's so awesome yeah it's good I knew what that stuff is called killer so killer so help you get rid of little Mike nasties yeah that are crawling on you yeah and the other thing it helps you do is just goes ahead and it will help you stay clean good it's good that's a good thing to be helped with for sure also we have a YouTube channel pretty much you have a youtube channel no no it's the Wii you're on the YouTube channel you're going but let's face it you're on the YouTube channel to youtube channel that's ours I'm on this sometimes if it's my youtube channel then what is it called choco podcasts okay I guess that kind of and you know you can see the video version of this podcast or and see what that Mac looks like if you don't know already yeah face it a lot of us newer Eddie what do you look like same same but if you didn't or you want to see more whatever whatever you can see it on the YouTube channel also X some excerpts on there if you're interested in that which is kind of cool we've talked about it before fire fire explosions okay psychological warfare if you need a little psychological you can check that out on all mp3 platforms me and giving you a little boost little spot little psychological spot to get over the moment of weakness flipside canvas calm my brother Dakota Meyer got all kinds of cool graphical representations of the path you can check that out if you want to hang up something on your wall that says discipline equals freedom we want to hang up the warrior kid code you can find it there got a bunch of books the latest is called leadership strategy and tactics Field Manual appreciate everyone hooking that up and now what I see is people posting that they bought 14 of them for every person on their team and I'm gonna tell you get every person on your team moving in that direction your team is going to rock and roll so check that one out for the kids out there we got--we the warrior kid one two and three and we got for the littler kids Mikey and the Dragons get those books get them for even if you even if it's like your neighbor kid look is your life gonna be better if your neighbor kid turns out to be a a loser turns out to be a drug turns out to be a non contributing member of society you want that kid living next door no you want a warrior kid living next door why not get your the neighborhood kids on the warrior kid path get them all the book get them liking the dragon so they can overcome fear let's let's change the culture of America and make kids warriors I don't think that's - I don't think that's too much to ask that's discipline the freedom feel manual there's a book that you get for yourself for people that you know that you want to help them help yourself to have more discipline because if you have more discipline guess what you're gonna end up with more freedom hence discipline equals freedom field manual how to get after it and then there's extreme ownership and that economy of leadership which are leadership books for you your team your business your life check those out we also have a tional on front which is leadership consultancy where what we do is solve problems through leadership that's what we do go to echelon front comm for details we've worked with companies of all sizes all over the world and that's what we do so check that out we have EF online which is a way to train the principles that we teach an echelon front train them in your company in your business in your life online interactive engaging check that out EF online comm we have the muster which is our leadership event leadership seminar leadership gathering and that this year is in Orlando it is in Phoenix Arizona and it is in Dallas Texas every every one that we've done is sold out and these are gonna sell out too so if you want to come go to extreme ownership calm for details and to register and of course we also have EF overwatch and EF Legion which is where we are taking military personnel that understand the principles leadership that we talk about all time taking them and employing those leadership principles in the civilian sector so go to EF overwatch comm for executive leadership go to EF Legion for frontline leadership and again if you want to check out Pat Mack he has T max ink.com and he also has combat strength training com he's also on Facebook t max Inc and Instagram t max Inc if you want to check out someone that's getting fired up with blaze Alps check that out and if you want to hear more from echo and me well we're also on the interwebs on Twitter and on Instagram and on your loss frost balke that cause adequate Charles and I on that jockey willing and thanks once again to Pat McNamara for coming on sharing his wisdom sharing his experience and more importantly than that thanks to Pat Mack for his service and sacrifice holding the line continuing to pass on knowledge to make people in every walk of life better and the same of course goes out to all FETs and all of our uniformed soldiers sailors airmen and Marines out there training and fighting to keep us safe and free into our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol and Secret Service thanks for your service as well which also keeps us safe thank you for what you do and to everyone else out there listen make yourself capable improve your skills be ready be prepared be be able to take care of yourself and the people around you and the way you do that is to go out there every single day and get after it and until next time this is echo and Jocko out

Channel: Jocko Podcast

Views: 1,084,891

Keywords: jocko willink, podcast, discipline, fredom, leadership, extreme ownership, author, navy seal, usa, military, echelon front, dichotomy of leadership, jiu jitsu, bjj, mma, jocko, victory, echo charles, flixpoint

Id: I1RaClM6d58

Length: 160min 39sec (9639 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 01 2020