Jocko Podcast 133 w/ Echo Charles: The Horrors of Unit 731

this is Jocko podcasts number 133 with echo Charles and me Jocko will occur good evening echo good evening and this podcast will cover a horrific subject of history and it is not for children or the faint of heart so listener discretion is advised I am a war criminal I served in Manchu Co that phoney country created by Japan in 1992 a group of us went to China to apologize to the family members of the people we had sent to unit 731 one woman now about sixty was the grandchild of one of the victims she told us our grandfather was killed by unit 731 in experiments he was killed because the Kempeitai sent him if you hadn't sent him he would have lived you are killers just like those doctors we prostrate it ourselves an apology and she kept pressing the fact home that we were partners in crime as guilty as the doctors of unit 731 and it's true it is just as she said apologizing does not erase the crime we were the aggressors most of the Japanese participants in the war were aggressors orders came from above orders from the Emperor then people were killed because it couldn't be helped according to International Convention those who kill in combat are not criminals the 3,000 people killed by unit 731 were all sent there by the Kempe Thai or the police the American Navy was attacked at Pearl Harbor and the Japanese thought it was a victorious strike yet within two years America had built up its naval strength again America is a machine society but bacteriological warfare does not rely on machines so Ishii's idea was to kill the attacking Russians with disease once killed troops are not rebuilt like machinery the Japanese army promised Chinese children money for bringing in rats the later gave them a pencil for every rat the end purpose of all this effort was war in war the side who kills more people wins bacteria can kill on a large scale so Ishi pressed this forward and that is testimony from a Ken TPI officer which was kind of like a secret police that served in Japan leading up to and during World War two and this is a part of history that I don't really want to talk about no one does but of course to ignore it to think that if we pretend it didn't happen that only opens up the door for it to happen again so this is the story of unit 731 an arm of the Japanese Imperial Army that along with some other associated units they developed tested and employed chemical and biological warfare weapons and there's two books that I reviewed and will be referring to during this podcast one is unit 731 by Pete Williams and David Wallace and the other is unit 731 testimony by how gold and the history and the acts that are counted for in these books really show what man is capable of especially on a malevolent leadership and in this case the leader that is primarily culpable for the crimes of unit 731 as the individual referred to in that opening statement a guy named by the name of Ichi Shiro Ishii who was born June 25th 1890 to the fourth son and a wealthy land owning family he was a fairly very smart individual he was a big tall kind of strapping guy then by most accounts he was a pretty arrogant individual as well and he went to school to become a doctor and join the army and there he studied bacteriology and serology which is the the study of blood and pathogens in the blood and he was also a fiercely patriotic and nationalistic individual and what that meant in Japan at this time was a feeling of total superiority both a cultural superiority and a racial superiority cultural and racial superior superiority over the rest of Asia and really over the rest of the world and he moved up through the ranks fairly quickly and he had done some traveling and of course saw things that happened in World War one and he saw chemical and biological warfare as a way to win wars and obviously Japan is a island nation with limited resources and so you need some advantage and he thought the advantage that Japan could get was chemical and biological warfare and in order to really maximize that advantage he believed that these weapons needed to be tested on people he believed that human experimentation was the pathway to move ahead of the rest of the world technologically in these departments and oddly enough he gained a decent amount of clouds and prestige by inventing a water filtration system that could provide clean water to soldiers on the front line which was a really big deal and and the book the book testimony the unit 731 testimony goes into pretty good detail about the number of people that were killed in in wars back then and how many of them would die of diseases and malnutrition from being sick from the water having diseases and whatnot and so he developed this this filtration system that worked really well and he ended up actually taking advantage of that a little too much and he used that technology which he'd come up with to get some kickback payments from a commercial company that manufactured the filters and that kind of got him in some trouble but that troubles overcome because he had some political connections that he had gained and he gotta got back on path and continue to gain rank and gain stature and with that rank and that stature that he gained he convinced his leadership to allow him to begin a highly secret program where he would make and test the biological and chemical weapons and again at this time chemical and biological weapons were very politically sensitive so this is in the mid 1930s the end of World War one had had only occurred just prior to this really twenty years and people remembered those those wars that war and they remembered the horrors of those weapons and and that's why international law had forbidden these weapons but he she didn't care he she was there to win at any cost and because of the view of the chemical and biological weapons at this time and the political sensitivity around them he couldn't do what he wanted to do inside of Japan because these weapons are dangerous first of all but again the political sensitivities around them that was okay because he had other plans and he opened his first laboratory in Manchuria an area of China that was at this time under the brutal control of Imperial Japan and the first laboratory that he put together was outside of a city called Harbin and interestingly the unit maintained a level of cover meaning there their purpose wasn't made known to the world the people they advertise the unit that they put in Manchuria that it was all about water purification and they and they actually did water purification there so it was a good cover story but what was really being focused on underneath that cover was the creation of biological and chemical weapons that they could use for war and as she made progression the project expanded and now I'm going to go to the book unit 731 by Peter Williams and David Wallace here we go in a few short years a she's project had hurtled from relative obscurity to one of top-secret and national importance it took two years to construct the establishments 150 or so buildings which included accommodation for thousands of people railway citing an incinerator and powerhouse with tall cooling towers and animal house an airfield a large administration building an exercise yard and a strange forbidding square shaped building known as road block ro the Japanese character Row is square in shape hence the name of the building although row block looked square from the outside hidden from view in the center were two other buildings known as blocks seven and eight row block was the centre of bacteria production and disease research block seven and eight had a more sinister purpose unit 731 s bacteriological research division was divided into more than a dozen squads each investigating the warfare possibility of a wide variety of diseases plague anthrax dysentery typhoid paratyphoid cholera and many other exotic and unknown diseases were studied every conceivable facility was given to unit 731 so that I think that's important because they they were getting a lot of money this wasn't like a little rogue project that wasn't being supported as a matter of fact here so - were luxuries lavished on the lifestyle of Ishii's researchers and workers in the remote Manchurian plain at ping fan a whole biological township grew up it was known as Togo village so around this unit 731 there's a whole village that got created and they were all living the good life by the way while Japan is not living through the rest of Japan is you know out getting ready to go to war or at war in various parts of the world and living lean here they're living large back to the book Togo villagers had plenty of supplies of the best foods at times when people in Tokyo were starving ping fan was centrally heated against the bitter sub-zero temperatures of the Manchurian winter naturally it had the best sanitation including even western-style style laboratories so he took care of his people and his people and he were getting taken care of building a back to bacterial weapon he found out was not an easy task he and his researchers faced a myriad of problems what kind of microorganisms would make a effective biological warfare agent should it have a lethal or incapacitating effect could it be produced in quantities sufficient for wartime employment could these living organisms be kept kept alive through storage and shipment to their ultimate employment on the battlefield what type of munition would be needed to deliver the agent to the target what were the technical and military characteristics of such a weapon so he started from Ground Zero trying to figure all this out he approached the problem by looking for weapons that could be delivered from altitude by aircraft causing massive outbreaks of epidemics ever since his trip to Europe play get fascinated Ishii and I talked about his travel and this is their talking a little bit about that here he knew would make a deadly weapon if it could be harnessed it is highly infectious with an incubation period of 3 to 4 days sometimes up to a week the onset is abrupt with chills high fever and extreme weakness the eyes redden the face becomes congested and the tongue coated victims can become maniacally delirious and death may be rapid sometimes within one day compared with some bacterial pathogens plague is only moderately infectious but more virulent strains can be cultivated the plague could create casualties often out of all proportion to the number of bacteria disseminated he deduced therefore that it would make an efficient weapon set about preparing the most dangerous strains and at some point on this podcast we'll talk about the black plague which is an epidemic that was insane in Europe but when you when you when you have any knowledge about the Black Plague and you read about someone that's looking at it saying hey this looks like a good idea you realize that this is just a sick sadistic person plague had another advantage for eg its origins could be concealed science had not then provided a satisfactory answer to the age-old question of why where for how long and how badly a plague epidemic broke out so he thought this is great we can cover it up a plague hits our enemy and we you know we don't know where it came from so they are producing this they begin to produce this so large was the production plant that in the heyday of unit 731 it had the potential for creating sufficient bacteria to kill the world's population several times over now that a she could produce plague and other virulent bacteria in sufficient quantities for warfare his next task was to discover how he could deliver his deadly microbes to the enemy and obviously I'm not reading this entire book and and there's more detail about the process of getting to breed these bacteria once they figured out how to breed it and now we got to figure out how to deliver it how are we gonna attack the enemy with this he tries all kinds of different things and then finally back to the book his I had come to rest upon the humble flea as in nature so tune war this minut insect could be relied upon as the carrier of pestilence to yield vast quantities of fleas and feed them enormous numbers of rats had to be caught and bred this was the job of unit 731 s Animal House run by a she's elder brother meat sOooo there's like a as I was reading this there's like this whole image of I mean are there you think about the the reputation of rats and fleas right rats and fleas are just they're the worst right and and it just paints this picture you just see rats and fleas and this is what they're breeding yeah this could this is like a horror movie yeah at back to the book at times of peak production members of each force were required to dress in civilian clothes and go rat catching he found a method suitable for weapons use here's a description of this flea Factory the second division had four special premises for the mass breeding of fleas in which a mixed temperature a fixed temperature of 30 degrees Celsius was maintained metal jars 30 centimeters high and 50 centimeters wide were used for the bleep breeding of fleas rice husks were poured into the jars to keep the fleas in after these preparations a few fleas were put into each jar and also a white rat for them to feed on the rat was fastened in such a way as to not hurt the fleas it's a horror movie but this so there they're going through this process of breeding fleas breeding rats using the rats to feed the fleas and raise the flea so if they can put these fleas into containers and they're trying out all different kind of containers and how to drop them and how to spread them and as they're figuring all that out it they're doing other things as well and it wasn't just rats and fleas there at unit 731 back to the book hidden from the outside world at the center of unit 731 s roll block was a cheese secret of Secrets so carefully was its existence kept secret that many junior members of unit 731 had no knowledge that it was there at all for prisoners to pass through the tunnel entrance was to start a journey of no return only two things were certain agony and death three of the Ishii brothers including Takeo Mitsu oh and of course the youngest Shiro worked at ping Fame Takeo was the prison commander the prison's guards were second or third sons from the Ishii brothers village kamo they were called the special squad tied by bonds of peasant loyalty to their Lord and Master they worshipped him they called him the Honorable EC or sometimes in reverence war God Ishi most were uneducated but all were unswervingly loyal to ensure allegiance Ichi paid them extra allowances for their terrible and dangerous duties the sort of money sent home for which would support whole families through difficult times to come even pay for their brothers and sisters education 'he's no kmo villager has ever publicly spoken even today about their former life in Manchuria the village is silent the Ishii family name is still revered for its kindness asked about unit 731 older residents were apprehensive Li reply I have nothing to say because it concerns the secrets of the Honorable Shiro Ishii he based his unit in remote northern Manchuria so he could experiment on human beings there in what was a police state he could be given an uninterrupted supply of human guinea pigs with the unique data gained from the human experiments he she believed Japan could outstrip the rest of the world in developing this new weapon of war no other country would have such accurate details about how ech epidemics spread or how to forget protect against them only Japan would fully master the twin fields of biological warfare offense and defense from the earliest days he appears to have employed human guinea pigs it was performed on prisoners who were sentenced to death at Harbin prison each prisoner was placed in a closely guarded cell while the experiments took place after death the bodies were burned in an electric furnace to Leave No Trace by 1935 motion pictures of human experiments were customarily being shown to senior staff officers occupied Manchuria and Harbin in particular was an ideal location for supply of human fodder and I should say that so it started off they would use prisoners that were sentenced to death that's that's where it started but the supply wasn't enough and it escalated from there just to just abnormal people and here's where it talks about that a little bit back to the book occupied Manchuria and Harbin in particularly was an ideal location for supply of human fodder Harbin a multiracial city of shifting minority groups was a nest of spies in addition Japan's occupation had brought forth strong resistance from both Chinese nationalists and Chinese Communists as well as indigenous Manchurians and Mongolians there was also a large white Russian population caught in the middle between communist Russia and expansionist Japan to maintain control in these difficult circumstances was the job of this Japanese Secret Service agency called the toka mu ki Khan and the Ken P tie they did so through brutal tactics of fear anyone who voiced opposition to the self-declared declared a paradise of manchu CO was liable to detention many never returned the Japanese Secret Service guide to the fundamental rules for interrogating war prisoners reveals that world so this is a document which I'm gonna read a couple parts of of how you torture people there their process for torturing people number 62 sometimes depending on circumstances it is advantageous to resort to Church torture torture the infliction number 63 torture the infliction of physical suffering must be sustained and continued in such a way that there shall be no other way of relief from suffering except by giving truthful information torture is advantageous because of the speed with which it is possible with relative ease to compel persons of weak will to give truthful testimony testimony but there is danger that in order to relieve himself from suffering or in order to please the interrogator the person interrogated will on the contrary distort the truth in the case of a persons of strong will torture may strengthen their will to resist and leave ill feeling against the Empire after the interrogation in relation to persons of weak will torture is usually applied in those cases when the person interrogated does not speak the truth even in the face of evidence but there is full reason to suppose that this person will speak frankly if torture is applied it is necessary to bear in mind that the methods of torture must be such as can easily be applied as will sustain suffering without rousing feelings of pity and as will not leave either wounds or scars so let's think about that right there what they're saying is that the torture has to be so easy to apply that the person that's doing the torturer won't feel sorry for them however in cases where it's necessary to create the apprehension of death the harm caused the person interrogated can be ignored but this must be done in such a way as to not make it possible to continue not make it impossible to continue the interrogation after the application of torture is necessary to convince the person who has undergone the torture that the torture applied to him was quite a natural measure or to take such measures as will induce him out of his sense of pride sense of honor etc not to speak about it after so that's when you say hey look we torture you you broke and you're weak and you should be embarrassed about it hmm number 69 nobody must know about this application of torture except the persons concerned with this under no circumstances must other prisoners know about it it is very important to take measures to prevent shrieks from being heard so they had their methodology they had their standard operating procedures to be a spy or dissident in Manchuria was to risk death by firing squad or decapitation but there was an alternative far worse death at the hands of unit 731 unsuspecting and innocent people were also tricked into the clutches of unit 731 some were lured by the prospect of employment young boys mothers and children even pregnant women were trapped here's a a medical orderly named issue boshy who carried out checkups on and there's a word here marutas and you're gonna hear what marutas this is what they described the people that are being held the prisoners inside of unit 731 they called them marutas or Morita singular and here's what the orderly had to say about it I started to work for unit 731 at age of 18 in the special section which did the press on new prisoners we took details of their blood type its pulse and pressure and other things prisoners were all referred to as Marotta which is the Japanese word for a log of wood although when they arrived they had cards each with their name birthplace reason for arrest and age we simply gave them a number a Morita was just a number a piece of experimental material they were not even regarded as human beings most were between 20 and 40 years old none were over 50 they seem to know their fate we did terrible things so you can see some obvious dehumanization they don't call them people they call them logs they give him a number not a name very standard practice for dehumanization back to the book the prison was a vision of hell through the spy hole cut in the steel doors of each cell the plight of the chained marutas could be seen some had rotting limbs bits of bone protruding through the skin blackened by necrosis others were sweating and high fever writhing in agony or moaning in pain those who suffered from respiratory infections coughed incessantly some were bloated some emaciated and others were blistered or had open wounds many of the cells were communal an infected person would be put in with healthy marutas to see how easily did diseases spread in desperation marutas would try to practice primitive preventive medicine to escape the diseases through these little spy holes the most act the most acute symptoms of the worst diseases in the world were coldly observed by 730 ones white-coated doctors marutas were used up at the rate of 2 to 3 per day the dichotomy between the doctors true vocation and the need to build a medically based weapon was well and expediently expressed by an individual probably Ishii at the initial assembly of unit 731 so this is a quote our god-given mission as doctors is to challenge all varieties of disease-causing microorganisms to block all roads of intrusion into the human body to annihilate all four matter resident in our bodies and to devise the most expeditious treatments possible however the research upon which we are now about to embark is the complete opposite of these principles and may cause us some anguish as doctors nevertheless I beseech you to pursue this research based on the double medical thrill 1 a scientist to exert effort to probing for the truth in the Natural Science and research and into and discovery of the unknown world and 2 as a military person to successfully build a powerful military weapon against the enemy one young serologist doctor Okimoto sent from the Tokyo Imperial University to Manchuria by his professor recalled the horror of discovering the true purpose of an epidemic prevention and water supply unit and here's what he said I was very shocked when I arrived and found out about the human experiments very few of those scientists scientists had a sense of conscious they were treated they treated the prisoners like animals the prisoners were the enemy they would eventually be sentenced to death they thought the prisoners would die an honorable death if in the process they contributed to the progress of Medical Science I was very frightened although my work involved no human experiments I wrote my resignation three or four times but there was no way to get out I was told that if I left I might secretly be executed so yeah there and I this is covered in pretty good depth in the book there was like a whole recruiting process to bring the best doctors and scientists from all the universities in Japan up to Manchuria to work there so these young kids are becoming doctors thinking they're gonna go out there and save people and the exact opposite happens back to the book syphilis was studied many female marutas died as unit 731 endeavored to solve the venereal disease epidemics raging through the ranks of Imperial Japanese Army as its military hordes marauded around the Asian continent on one occasion a pregnant woman was deliberately infected with the disease and when her child was born both were dissected cruel experiments were not confined confined to the robach five hours from ping fan by truck lai anta proving ground unit 731 s education division trees chief lieutenant colonel nee she took part in one experiment here are his comments an experiment in which I participated was performed in infecting ten Chinese War prisoners with gas gangrene the object of the experiment was to ascertain whether it was possible to infect people with gas gangrene at a temperature of 20 degrees Celsius below zero this experiment was performed in the following way ten Chinese War prisoners were tied to stakes at a distance of ten to twenty meters from a shrapnel bomb that was charged with gas gangrene to prevent the men from being killed outright their heads and backs were protected with a special metal shield and thick quilted blankets but their legs and buttocks or left unprotected the bomb was exploded by means of an electric switch and the shrapnel bearing gas gangrene germs scattered all over the spot where the experiment EES were bound all the experimental wounded in the legs or buttocks and seven days later they died in great torment miraculously some marutas survived all infection experiments developing remarkable immunities but their fate was always the same unit 731 had many other uses for human fodder so they talked about this in the book how some people would develop immunity some guys were just super tough just tough and in fact there's one way they talk about they they finally kill this guy after experiment here's a 65 year old guy he was just just tough he survived all these different infections all these different diseases and they they finally when they kill him they they opened him up they dissect him and they see that he's like got the organs of a 25 year old or something but it didn't matter even if you were resistant to diseases they had other experiments to do the education chief Nishi had some other recollections about some of those other experiments back to the book with temperatures below negative 20 degrees Celsius people were brought out from the detachments prison into the open their arms were bared and made to freeze with the help of an artificial current of air this was done until they're frozen arms when struck with a short stick emitted a sound resembling that which a board gives out when it is struck a film was made on this subject to here's another account of these so they were they were trying to figure out things about frostbite frostbite and what people could take because they were going to be fighting up in the steppes of Manchuria and Russia they thought they'd be fighting there so they had to figure out new experiments to figure out how to heal frostbite once it happened and how much cold someone could take here's a printer that worked there and here's a account of what he witnessed two naked men were put in an area forty to fifty degrees below zero and researchers filmed the whole process until they died they suffered such agony they were digging their nails into each other's flesh this was military life you couldn't say I want to do this or that in war however good or bad the Japanese way is to obey a superior it was the same as if the order came from the Emperor sometimes there were no anesthetics they screamed and screamed but we didn't regard the logs as human beings they were lumps of meat on a chopping block the Japanese way is to obey a superior I talk about that all the time you got a question we've got a question continuing detachment 731 had a sister unit it was called the 716 chemical warfare unit tests were carried out in a large cloud chamber the size of a telephone box made of thick steel it had an agitator in the ceiling connected by large pipes to a gas producing machine marutas were put in a truck tied to a pole and pushed inside some naked some in full Army uniform and some in gas masks 731 and 5/16 researchers watched them gasp and convulsed to their deaths through the Chamber's reinforced a glass window a young mother and her baby or even put to death in this chamber she desperately tried to protect her child from the fumes by covering her it with her body she died lying on top of her child here's another account from a medical orderly about other experiments beyond cold and beyond chemical and beyond beyond biological here we get to malnutrition I saw malnutrition experiments they were conducted by the project team under the technician Yoshimura he was a civilian member of unit 731 the purpose of the experiments I believe was to find out how long a human being could survive with just water and biscuits to marutas were used for this experiment they continuously circled a prescribed course within the grounds of the unit carrying approximately a 20 kilogram sandbag on their backs one succumbed before the other but they both ultimately died the duration of the experiment was about two months they only received army biscuits to eat and water to drink so that they would not have been able to survive for very long they weren't allowed a lot of sleep either and here's one of the major generals Kawashima and he talks about the fate of some of the marutas from 500 to 600 prisoners were consigned to detachment 731 annually if a prisoner survived the inoculation of lethal bacteria this did not save him from a repetition of the experiments which continued until death from the infection supervened the infected people were given medical treatment and ordered a test of various methods of cure they were fed normally and after they had fully recovered were used for the next experiment but infected with a different kind of germ at any rate no one ever left this factory alive following anatomical study the bodies of the dead were burned in the detachments incinerator so as I said there's even if you're just tough as nails they're just gonna give you a different disease or more disease and all pretty horrible and now it gets worse back to the book perhaps the greatest horror of unit 731 was vivisection unit 731 had two teams of pathologists one headed by dr. Okimoto the other by dr. Ishikawa anatomical study performed by these squads was not always confined to the dead pathology squad assistant Kiran Sawa saw vivisections unit 731 did work on living human bodies he said to do this work our sentiments were suppressed so this is a whole new level we're actually dissecting or vivisecting people that are alive back to the book some doctors are said to have come all the way from Japan just to see such a dissection laboratory assistants got extra pay called the chemical weapons allowance for wielding the scalpel during this dreadful work blood is said often to spurted all over the ceiling of the dissection room as certain incisions were made limbs of the dying marutas would flex and jerk involuntary oh involuntarily as the scalpel entered particular parts of the brain organs would twitch vigorously after the were thrown into jars of formalin for preservation not only were anesthetics researched but also bizarre surgical experiments connecting different parts of the body are reported to have been performed so yeah this is this is a horror movie that's actually happening you got selling different parts of the body together this is just a horror movie except this is not a movie and the the people that are being referred to as marutas right now our people back to the book the world will probably never learn of all the grisly experiments that took place at unit 731 among them were pressure experiments similar to those carried out by dr. racer at Dachau concentration camp presumably done on behalf of the Japanese Air Force it was an extremely painful method of killing individual placed in the unit 731 pressure chamber would suffer terrible agony as their eyes first popped out of their sockets as the eye membrane ruptured and later as blood forced its way out through pores in the skin marude has had their blood siphoned off and replaced with horse blood and plasma experiments he was said the number of these poor men women and children who became marutas were mummified alive in total dehydration experiments they sweated to death under the heat of hot dry fans at death their corpses weighed only one-fifth normal body weight others were electrocuted boiled alive killed in giant centrifuges or died from prolonged exposure to x-rays in all some 3,000 are said to have been murdered some were just killed off when there was an excess of supply they were killed like animals in AB in an abattoir every bit of their bodies mercilessly mercilessly used up in the name of the terrible medicine of military science now as she went on with these experiments he was he got worried about something and this is what he got worried about back to the book there was a small but crucial chance that some of his weapons might not work on American or anglo-saxon racial groups in 1943 researcher Sumi was sent on trips to Inner Mongolia to study the immunities of Mongolians and other races another had already been sent to a place called Mouton so Mook tins another prison camp so he got concerned that as he did these experiments that some diseases affect different races differently and there was some chance that oh if we'd used this type of bacteria against an anglo-saxon or a white person it might not work so we gotta we gotta figure that one out well the Japanese had captured Americans and Brits and Australians so here we're gonna hear a little bit about the prisoners in looped in look I said is another prison camp back to the book a warren w whelchel known more familiarly as Pappy came from Tulsa Oklahoma was a master sergeant with the u.s. 200 200th Coast artillery anti-aircraft regiment on April 9th 1942 Bataan fell on May 6th so did Corregidor Pappy whelchel and eighty-eight thousand other Americans and Filipinos were captured Pappy remembers it was the beginning of one of the most dehumanizing experiences ever perpetrated on humans well Joe and his fellow prisoners had to endure the familiar ill treatment the Japanese meted out to prisoners of war a proceeding that is understandable only a few from the Japanese standpoint that to die in battles honorable but to surrender is to be shamed but is also dehumanizing because unknown to him he was to become a human guinea pig in Japan's experimental program as they sought to build weapons of biological warfare well to was to spend three years of his life as one of the 1485 American and British and Australian and New Zealand prisoners of war who were herded into a special prison camp in Manchuria at Mook Dhin and of course they hyped their back to the book the route that 1000 American prisoners took to muten began with what became known as the Bataan Death March we were subjected to beatings killings forced marches during the heat of the day we were deprived of food water and any medical attention whatsoever Pappy whelchel remembered they were penned in two camps in the Philippines hundreds more died both in the camp and and from suffocation as more than 100 crammed into boxcars on the journey from one camp to another then in October of 1942 about a thousand US troops had been singled out and marched to Manila the capital of the Philippines they went aboard the Japanese vessel Tottori Maru then here's a quote from the moment we went aboard that hell ship they were experimenting on us they threw us aboard to see how much we could stand and how many of us died they took us from the tropics to a bitterly cold climate and that took its toll on us they gave us few crackers and little rice to eat and I feel that it was a systematic way of beginning to test us to found out to find out how much the Americans and the British and Australians could endure and that was said by Gregg Gregg Rodriguez senior now retired from his career as a foreman in Henrietta Oklahoma Rodriguez was a private in 59 coastal alter licor US Army he survived the journey to Mook tin and three years in the camp itself now there's another guy named Robert PD who was a senior British officer and he was also in prison in Mugen and he kept a daily diary or at least he tried to keep a daily diary and he kept it in code form but here's some here's some of his entries into his journal 19 April 43 another Japanese medical investigated investigation started today as apparently the findings of the first did not meet with approval 24 May diarrhea is increasing 25 May waiting for medicine for diarrhea which was not forthcoming men were ordered to exercise by playing baseball 26 may die ignores of diarrhea consists of running the men around the parade ground I saw some of them with bare feet those who do not mess their pants or drop from exhaustion are reckoned to be liars and are told to go back a protest has been made and a change is expected in both methods and personnel for June 3rd Japanese medical investigation started 5 June anti dysentery inoculation 1/2 CC including flescher why 8 June diría still steadily increasing 13 June 2nd anti dysentery shot 1 cc 6 August there are now 208 dead so as they're doing these experiments and they've got these dead bodies of American Australian British soldiers they're still trying to utilize them when they're dead to try and learn from them back to the book one morning early in 1943 Frank James was assigned to burial detail this is of some of those bodies I was pretty sick myself but I wouldn't go to the hospital because nobody that went in ever came out I went round to the Hut and it must have been I reckon three hundred and forty bodies stacked there each body had a tag attached to its toe there were two or three men who I took to be Japanese doctors there they were all masked a hundred percent all the time they were there their faces were covered another fellow and I were told to lift up the bodies and put them on the autopsy tables then they began to cut them open they went deep into the stomach the bile the small intestine and they took what looked like pancreas and lungs they also operated on the heads and took part of the brain so just a heart of a horror show for the prisoners the end of their incarceration in moonkin was quite matter-of-fact and again this is a fast forward and it also skips ahead a little bit talking about how how the war ended and what that was like after days of rumor major PD's diary records for August 16 1945 a six men were brought into camp this evening and from the fact that they were smoking more than the regulation distance from an ashtray we knew they were not prisoners of war after an unusually good supper all prisoners were released from the guardhouse then he continues on this is on 20 August at about 7:00 p.m. a small Russian a small party of Russian officers arrived and announced that we are now free the Russian officer in charge said here they are do what you like with them cut their throats or shoot them it's all the same to me but this was translated diplomatically as he says he hands them over to you for major PD and the hundreds who had survived the privations of MOOC Dhin the victory was theirs in every sense they had no need they decided to seek reprisals it would have been said the major beneath our dignity it would have reduced us to their level after all they had to live the rest of their lives with what they'd done so the horror show ends and these these soldiers that had been tortured and killed murdered they decide they're not even gonna take revenge because they don't want to they don't want to lower themselves to that level that's an amazing but like I said that had skipped the head the warm still wasn't over and here we go back to the book he expected the final and decisive battle would take place between June and September 1945 when America attempted to land on Japan proper Okinawa Japan's own Island Bastion fell in June the month before Germany had surrendered Russia urged by Britain and America at Yalta turned their attention to Manchuria for forces swelled on both sides of the Soviet Manchurian border as millions of troops remained at standoff point Tanaka's flea factory was expanded and given more staff with 4,500 flea breeding machines in operation a hundred million insects could be produced every few days he planned to breed 300 kilograms approximately 1 billion plague fleas in the run-up to war special training courses in flea breeding were set up at ping fain and June and subunit members ordered back afterwards to establish their own production basis to propagate plague cultures and to feed the fleas rats were needed in their thousands Yamada ordered every land unit of the Kuantan Kwantung army to trap rats Kurosawa's new conveyor system and again I'm throwing names in here that are explained with a lot more detail in the book that's why you buy the book and read the book so you can get the full picture Kurosawa's new conveyor system was working round the clock producing plague typhoid cholera and anthrax organisms which were sufficient if correctly dispersed to infect half the planet between midnight and 1:00 a.m. on the morning of August 9th after Hiroshima had been devastated by the atomic bomb the Soviet Army swept across the border into Manchuria and Korea with a massive force of one and a half million men 5,500 tanks and 5000 airplanes the Kwantung army was thrown into panic confusion broke loose that day or the day after Yamada ordered the destruction of unit 731 and 100 again 731 we've been talking about 100 was another one of these parallel units that was doing the same type of stuff a nearby sapper unit was ordered to blow up ping fens main headquarters the unit's personnel were to destroy all evidence and be evacuated to sell Seoul in Korea a second bomb was yet to be dropped on Nagasaki so here the war is obviously turning we dropped the bomb and they go to cover their tracks they have to completely destroy everything destroy the buildings destroy all the records destroy everything and when I say everything I mean everything here we go back to the book at ping Phan marutas were the first to be destroyed members of the 516 chemical warfare unit gassed the marutas by throwing flasks of toxic chemicals into their cells 600 local Manchurian and Chinese laborers who worked at the Yonezawa plant disease farm and elsewhere a ping Fang were machine-gunned potassium cyanide poison was also put into the marutas breakfast food so they're just trying to like I said destroy everything and make it like it didn't happen and as they wrap this up the rest of unit 731 expecting a few left behind for final clearing up assembled on the 13th and 14th at the shunting yard he made a formal speech extolling the memory of unit 731 and its diligent research as if in mockery of him who was interrupted by the sound of a prison exploding members were issued files of poison he had originally wished every branch member in all families in Togo village to commit suicide but this proposal this proposal was met met the violent disagreement of major-general Kikuchi 731 s research chief nonetheless some took their lives without orders from Ichi so he thought they should all kill themselves got a little resistance there I would I would have thought that kikuchi perhaps would have provided more resistance against the behavior that they were occurring to not just to you just want to protect himself here at the end hey I'm not gonna question anything as long as it doesn't affect me right that's what that is on August 15th the Emperor broadcast Japan's defeat and surrender it had never occurred to Ichi that Japan might give in he had to confirm the broadcast before believing it such was the shock that according to one account he was seen in a listless condition utterly crestfallen that day in the late afternoon unit 731 train arrived at Hince king there on the following night he made a final address to the to his Ernst wild troops he swore them to life in the shadows for the rest of their lives and the light of the candle held by an aide-de-camp he ordered them never to speak of their military past never to take official positions in the future and never again to contact each other it is a promise that some have kept to this day the pathetic end of Japan's once mighty biological warfare effort was to let loose thousands of infected rats in the neighborhood of ping fan it caused a local plague epidemic which claimed many innocent lives into the summer of 1946 a unit and a hundred a handful of infected horses were freed after the surrender yeah you know you hear that argument about the about the dropping of the atomic bombs mm-hmm and the common argument is always it would have cost massive amounts of lives on both sides Americans and Japanese because the America Japanese were going to fight to the death and Americans were gonna kill them all and so the best thing to do is like okay we drop the atomic bombs this just kind of makes that a closed deal in my mind you know you got people that are trying to got enough enough biological weaponry to infect half the world so and again jumping forward in this book get the book so that you can get the whole story but there's a a massive investigation that takes place to find out what's going on there's little leaks they fuck they catch wind of a little bit of it but not a lot of it and at one point they're interrogating ishi and here's a she she denied any involvement our work was to protect soldiers he said did anyone else concern themselves with biological warfare against crop plants I do not know replied Ishii his interrogator made no effort to pursue the matter Thompson a veterinarian by training turned the questions of biological warfare against animals we did not do any experiments on log large animals said Ishii we used small animals as test animals besides we had no veterinarians what field tests were made with the plague organism he asked due to the danger of it there were no field experiments with that organism there were great many field mice in Manchuria and it would have been dangerous to conduct field experiments with plague because the field mice would very easily carry the organisms and start an epidemic we conducted the experiments with plague in the laboratory SETI XI what kind of experiments Thompson inquired we put rats and cages inside the room and sprayed the whole room with plague bacteria this was to determine how the rats became infected whether through the eyes nose mouth or through the skin what did you find out the test results were not too favorable we usually got 10% infection by which way the was the total said he/she misunderstanding the question what route was most effective Thompson repeated through the nose said he/she also through an open wound so they're interrogating he's being pretty he's lying he's covering up but there's there's a twist that we're gonna see unfold here and I'll explain it a little bit so it makes sense as it comes forth the twist in this story is that the Cold War was about to start the Cold War was now starting and America you know these experiments that had taken place and knowledge had been gained through this through these evil experiments well America looked at the knowledge and recognize our saw that there could be knowledge that they didn't and that we didn't have that America didn't have and and decided let's try and get this knowledge now one of the problems is and again this is going to unfold but I'll give a brief synopsis of it one of the problems is if you charge someone with war crimes and you put them on trial well you've got to say what the wrong what the war crimes aren't that they committed and if you say that the war crimes were committed or these experiments with chemical and biological weapons then people are gonna know what the results of the experiments were and that means the knowledge is gonna be out there and the knowledge could fall into the hands of people that we were now looking to be facing in another war which end up being a Cold War luckily not a full war so that's how this that's how this story continues to unfold back to the book there's no question that a she has an India as an individual and many of his associates were guilty of serious war crimes as a lieutenant general a she was on a she undoubtedly possessed sufficient high military rank to be classified as a class-a war criminal he was the top of the tree in his own field his actions as the head of unit 731 qualified him as a criminal on many accounts not only was biological warfare considered extra legal by most countries but issue is also guilty of outrageous conventional war crimes he had carried out calculated human experimentations on prisoners of war a conventional war crime that had long been prescribed in the manuals of military law of every major power heap carried out similar research against innocent civilians clearly a crime against humanity he had taken his biological weapon out of the research laboratory and used it in the field he had sought autonomy and independence of action for his biological warfare forces throughout the war zones he had done nothing to restrain the conduct of his subordinates so this guy is as guilty as they come they there was other other events that took place that were equally bad and here we go some tribunals were held in China the Philippines in the Pacific Islands but most a total of 314 cases were held at Yokohama Japan at these courts a sufficient number of medical atrocity cases were heard for them to be considered as a special category the most well-known and worst case presented by legal section at Yokohama concerned the fate of captured American fliers held by the Japanese Western Army in Kyushu after April 1945 the appalling experiments to which they had been subjected included vivisection and the substitution of seawater for their blood for this gross act of barbarism on August 27th 1948 the nine Japanese involved were convicted and sentenced either to be hanged or to serve life imprisonment one professor a Shyama of Kishu university committed suicide in prison so clearly they had the attitude of like we're gonna get some of these guys that conducted experiments and that's exactly what should happen and this was a much smaller number of people that were tortured and killed and uses human experience than what was used it at 7:31 continuing on Cold War tensions had been increasing throughout 1946 the desire to mete out stern justice at the Tokyo trial was increasingly subsumed if found in conflict with the interests of national security Japan was in the front line so to now was biological warfare on August 24th 1946 Washington cabled MacArthur ordering him to protect intelligence especially scientific which might jeopardize America's national security it read under present circumstances intelligence relating to research and development in the field of science and war material should not be disclosed to nations other than the British Commonwealth biological warfare intelligence seems by this time to have become too much too sensitive to be brought into the glare of massive of a massive international trial throughout 1946 both Russia and America appeared to have been reluctant to reveal their hands in Japan America appears to have taken some extra precautions to prevent information from falling into Soviet hands so you can see how it's unfolding one of these again one of these senior officers that has talked about deeply in the book but I didn't discuss to too much his name was NATO and here's a quote from NATO we want to cooperate and we owe it to the General Headquarters but we have a responsibility to our friends we took an oath never to divulge information on human experiments we are afraid some of us will be prosecuted as war criminals we do not know how much others will be willing to give us if you can give us documentary' immunity probably we can get everything the subordinates not the section Chiefs know all the details if we contact someone who is a communist he is liable to tell the Russians the Japanese were given insurances that war crimes would not be involved MacArthur sent a five again fast forward from MacArthur said a five-part radio message to Washington showing the extent of his knowledge it's clear from part fine they have the whole the whole message in the book is clear from part five of the message that MacArthur favored gaining the biological warfare technical information by offering the assurances that data would not be employed at war crimes trials and here's Ichi I will not reveal the information to the Russians you can see how this is unfold this is like one of those horrible when a crime gets committed and for whatever little technicality people are getting off that's exactly what's going on and you can hear it unfolding and I mean does national security Trump the it's almost like an ego move right it's almost like an ego move you're gonna make these guys pay it's also a morality move and it's a justice it's I guess it's beyond ego and beyond we're out it's justice these guys were criminals these guys did heinous things to other human beings and they should pay and as as strong as that case is it didn't seem to hold up to the case of national security we want to have this information not that we were going to use it but we better have it better to have it and not need it than need not have it's better to have it yourself and not let your enemy have it which is the Russians at this point yeah so that's where the decisions getting made yeah so you got to kind of consider what's more important like this justice yeah that's exactly the questions and answers pretty clear what the quote what the answer is is safety all right I mean security you get all the justice yeah you can get all the justice you want but then it's gonna create some serious problems in the future it's kind of you know is it worth it yeah and here's Ishii talking some more I cannot give detailed technical data all the records were destroyed I never did know many details and I've forgotten what I knew I can give you general results I've never heard of anta that's another base that they used until I returned to ping fen in 1945 I did not visit the location I am responsible for all that went on at ping fan I am willing to shoulder all responsibility neither my superiors or my subordinates had anything to do with issuing instructions for experiments if you ask me specific questions I can tell you general results I am wholly responsible for ping fen I do not want to see any of my subordinates or superiors get in trouble for what occurred if you will give me documentary immunity for myself superiors subordinates and subordinates I can get you all the information for you so he's he's making a deal he's making me listen look I'm responsible for everything and what he's doing is saying look I'm responsible for everything and if you give me immunity I'll get you all the information you want it's actually a good move it's a good move on his part because he says I'm responsible for everything even if they say no we don't take a deal and we're gonna hang you he's still he's still trying to protect as many as many of his people as he can up and down the chain of command the advisability of complying with Ishii's bargain war crimes immunity in written form in exchange for scientific data was to occupy some of Washington's most senior minds throughout the summer of 1947 he continued Masuda Kaneko and nato whom you say you know can give you a lot of information I would like to be hired by the United States as a biological warfare expert in preparation for the war with Russia I can give you the advantage of my 20 years research and experience I have given a great deal of thought to tactical problems in the defense against biological warfare I have made Studies on the best agents to be employed in various regions and in cold climates I can write volume of all biological warfare including the little thought of strategic and tactical employment god this guy scumbag so it continues and open back to the book and an open admission about human experimentation allegations about the the use of biological warfare even hints about the connection between unit 731 and a member of the Japanese Imperial Family were all contained in the files of legal sections case 330 by the middle of 1947 how did this come about and why was nothing be done being done about the files contents so this is getting shut down that's what's happening now here's the sort of the more official opinion back to the book on balance the subcommittee felt it was desirable to avoid a war crimes prosecution and here's what they said since it is believed that the USSR possesses only a small portion of this technical information and since any war crimes trial would completely reveal such data to all nations it is felt that such publicity must be avoided in interests of defense and the security of the United States it is believed it is believed also that war crimes prosecution of he and his associates would serve to stop the flow of much additional information of a technical and scientific nature it is felt that the use of this information has a basis for war crimes evidence would be a grave detriment to Japanese cooperation with the United States occupation forces in Japan so there you hear the decisions getting made and that's the way it went and in the end going back to the book no member of unit 731 was called before any British or American military tribunal to account for war crimes none of them well actually not buy any British or Americans because the Russians they still went after and they and when they went after him then they got some of them they they made America look bad hmm they had a big trial and here's the the state council the state councils name was Smirnoff and here we go back to the books Smirnoff spelled out a message intended for the ears of an audience thousands of miles from the courtroom these men he and the rest now he she wasn't a part of this trial but he and the rest enjoy the protection of those reactionary forces in the imperialist camp who are themselves dreaming of a time when they will be able to hurl upon mankind loads of TNT atomic bombs and lethal bacteria the accused received the sentences as follows and then they listed these guys that various soldiers and civilians that served in some of these biological warfare experimentation centers they got 25 years 20 years 18 years 15 years 12 years 10 years 2 years 3 years but again those sentences don't include a she or the other main players at unit 731 because they got kind of protected not even kinda they got protected by America in exchange for their information sort of in response to everything that was going on there on December 27 1941 the following story appeared in The New York Times date lined Tokyo no knowledge MacArthur says general mccardle Douglas MacArthur's headquarters said today there were no known cases in which Japanese used American prisoners in germ warfare experiments the headquarters added that the Japanese had done some experiments with animals but there was no evidence they had ever used human beings as far as is known here no Americans held prisoner by the Japanese that mook didn't ever accused their captors of having used them as guinea pigs in biological warfare tests so that's all not true mm-hmm that's all not true back to the book to this day Russia has allowed itself to bask in feelings of more moral superiority over America and not without some justification in respect of the way it brought its unit 731 criminals to justice so just that's the way that's the way it flushed out now this you might think that's a little disturbing this is equally disturbing this is just horrible back to the book after the war most of the scientists of unit 731 prospered much is explained by the clear complicity on the part of the United States authorities in the war crimes of unit 731 the detachments civilian researchers and other associated scientists were quite free to return to academia and it goes through this lit this multiple page lists of of guys that went on to work at the Research Institute for Natural Resources chief and yet another guy was chief research section at a pharmaceutical company doctor Ishikawa wants a pathologist at unit 731 who had brought home within thousands of human pathological samples became a professor at at a university in 1944 a position he held throughout the 1960s and 70s he eventually became president of the University's medical school the local newspaper once planned to award him with a medal for his contribution to society but after students who knew of his wartime record objected the war was cancelled so these guys carried on another guy professor of show a University of pharmacological another professor of bacteriological at Kyoto University the list goes on and on dr. he Sato Yoshimura who directed unit 731 frostbite experiments literally freezing people to death became a faculty member of the kyoto prefecture all medical college in the 1950s and later its president and like i said that list goes on and on and on and of course we still haven't heard about it yet the mastermind behind this whole thing here we go back to the book he inherited much of a family's property in kamo village because you remember kml villages where they bring all these prison guards from their home village so that they'd get the complete loyalty from him so he inherited much of the properties family the family property in kamo village his two elder brothers Takeo and Mitsuo were childless unlike Shiro who fathered six children Takeo unit 731 special prison squad leader eventually died of liver cancer in Kobe the city whence his second wife had come Mitsu oh who wants to revise the the unit's Animal House outlived his younger brother Shiro but was unable to work after the war and lived on money gained by selling his country property with solo masuo and Takeo and their eldest brother Tyrell who had been killed in the russo-japanese war during Japan's Meiji period are buried in the Ishii family cemetery at kamo on August 17 1958 13 years after the end of the war in the back room of a stonemason shop near Thomas cemeteries Tokyo he made his first and apparently only post-war appearance before assembled the junior members of his former unit he reminisced about the early days of unit 731 in a speech reportedly still rich in xenophobia and elitism he described how his unit was to have been elevation of Japan a country then encircled by the West scientifically impoverished yet spiritually rich he apologized for their suffering since the end of the war but urged his audience to remain proud of the memory of unit 731 then here's a little part of his what he said it was in order that we could have precious human material that the unit 731 was set for the saving of the nation national circumstances were not permitting unfortunately we did not achieve our aims so even after all that even after all that even looking back after 13 years after the end of the war he's looking back and still has the same mindset and that mentality is hard to understand I want to shed a little bit of light on that mentality and do that through some personal accounts of what happened at unit 731 and that's from this other book it's called unit 731 testimony then let's go to this book and I think these make it pretty clear where this mentality comes from so this account is from a captain in the Japanese Imperial Army named Kojima Kojima TKO and here we go perhaps there are some people here and and by the way most of these accounts are from an exhibition that went around Japan kind of explaining what happened and people would come to this exhibition then they would capture if someone was involved in unit 731 or someone remembered her someone had a story about it they would capture their account and that's what this book has a lot of from this expert that this exhibition that they did I think was in the mid-1990s that they did is exhibition so this particular person that was showed up at this exit he was a captain in the Japanese army his name is Kojima Keo and here's what he said perhaps there are some people here at this unit 731 exhibition who think that this was all there was to Japan Japanese aggression at the time unit 731 was merely one segment of the dark shadow of Japan's aggression and I would like to tell of my experience in this and I think this is why I pulled this one specifically because this talks about where this came from where this mentality came from that he/she had to the end we were born and raised in a society of M / ISM a person's absolute responsibility above the army and government was to the Emperor the Emperor was a living deity the Emperor's command was supreme and controlled the entire country we were told how we must serve the Emperor how we should behave toward our parents how should we should behave toward our teachers and house we should behave toward our siblings we were taught that Japan is a sacred country that the people of Japan are a superior race that the people of China Korea Southeast Asia and Russia were all inferior races and the superior race must govern them and by doing so we would bring them happiness this was the cause to which Japan must devote itself he goes on again I'm not reading the entire thing but you have to get the book to get these entire accounts soon after we went into service we were given training to get our courage up we were ordered to watch beheadings Chinese were made to sit by a hole in the ground and the seasoned soldiers would cut their heads off blood spurted up from the neck into the air and the bodies would roll into the holes then we had bayonet practice victims had their hands tied behind them around a tree and were used as bayonet targets we had to watch this as part of our training this was a shock to me and for two or three days food would not pass through my throat but two years later I became an officer in charge of a platoon and with about 25 men under me later I became a company commander with 151 men and that meant that if I didn't build a strong platoon and a strong company I would fall behind and so I too tested the courage of the soldiers under me by using Chinese prisoners this was normal training in the Japanese army when we were not involved in major operations we would go out into our own immediate area on continuous 3-day operations to see if there were any enemy around on such occasions we stole tortured and slaughtered people the Chinese had a saying about us that Japan had a threeway complete policy burned completely killed completely and pillaged completely yet when we were doing those things we had no sense of guilt or of doing anything wrong it was for the Emperor for the country so that's how they're raised and that's how you can end up with someone like a she that goes through all that and still remains loyal even after defeat still remains loyal to the deposed Emperor and here's an army doctor named Yuasa Ken this is not easy for me to speak about but it is something I must confess what I did was wrong it is also true that it was forced on me by the government but that does not reduce the size of my crime it is something that happened a long time ago but those who are not taught about the war are alleged the Japanese armored army went to ponder and steal materials and to kill Japan won an iron coal and provisions and the army drove into the mountains to prosecute the war at the time the Japanese used derogatory terms for the Chinese like Chinamen and chink and looked at them with contempt when I was a child we were told to despise the Chinese despise the Koreans it's alright to conquer them we have become elite and should join with the Americans and British and conquer Asia I hated war and killing but around middle school and into college I began to think that such ideas were unavoidable people were driven into a life which human qualities in which human qualities were lost the soldiers outlet for frustrations was the brothel of the comfort women any means was resorted to in order to raise ones rank and keep up the authority of the country and in the army hospital we practiced vivisection living persons are good for the scalpel practice so people were brought in one day soon after I started at the assignment the hospital had told us today we will have surgery practice I was startled it was an order there was no getting out of it normally we dissected people who had died of such diseases as typhoid fever dysentery and tuberculosis now we were being taken to the dissection room for a different type of exercise soldiers came along as observers everything started with a signal from the hospital head one Chinese had big thighs and walked slowly and calmly he laid down and had no sign of fear no stress on his face he was composed someone else used him for surgery practice I went over and pushed the other one onto the operating table I had no feeling of apology or of doing anything bad the farmer was resigned to his fate and he lowered his head and walked forward I didn't want to get my clothes dirty from him I wanted to look sharp he went down as far as the operating table but didn't want to lie down a nurse using broken Chinese told him we're using ether it won't hurt so lie down she gave me a wry smile when she said that she had been working there for a long time and when I happened to meet her again much later and asked her about it she didn't remember she was handling so many vivisections it was routine people who repeat evil acts do not remember them there is no sense of wrongdoing war means this also war is not just shooting in order for Japan to win all the Chinese were made prisoners women's bellies were cut open homes were burned if you couldn't do this then you weren't a loyal soldier of the Emperor even if one despises an act one must bear it from there a person becomes accustomed to it we all received practiced it was normal to smile at this the crimes committed during our aggressive Wars are forgotten gone from memory at the time they were considered right so the surgery began the man was given ether and dissected his appendix was so small that it was like looking for a burrowing worm I had to cut in search repeatedly the blood flow was stopped nerves were cut bones were cut with a saw and a tracheotomy was performed blood and air escaped from his body the blood came foaming up practice time was two hours the man died and his body was thrown into a hole and buried that was my first crime after that it was easy eventually I dissected 14 Chinese I also saw vivisections once I saw about 40 doctors gathered there was a man bound and squatting the guard asked the doctors are you ready and the prisoner was laid out without anesthetic two cuts were made down his belly the victim made a few gasps the dissection was a botch and he died soon I saw four people dissected that way it is said that there are that there were twenty million victims of the war in China but only 10 to 20% of these were killed in gunfire exchange most non resisting old people women and children were captured and slaughtered prisoners of war could not be taken to the front or allowed to escape so they were killed in the manner of The Rape of Nanking those who were a part of it do not come forward to tell the people how it was why because the Japanese had forgotten all about it everybody's forgotten they did things and got medals and they don't think they did anything worse than kicking a dog they weren't bothered because they never considered it a dreadful thing to take a scalpel and cut open a living person and this will be the last piece of testimony that I read and this was a soldier that was attached to unit 731 named O'Hara takayoshi and he said I joined the cavalry from my home in 1939 in April of that year I was stationed in northeast China then in March 1942 I was transferred to unit 731 I did not know anything about that unit my first duty was taking care of domesticated animals such as sheep goats horses and cows I assisted in researching the diseases that affect these animals I saw tests in which Marotta were tied to crosses in a large circle as planes flew over and dropped bacteriological bombs in the area surrounded by the crosses their legs were chained and their bodies tied tightly we observed the tests from a distance of about 200 meters I had the job of cleaning up and disinfecting after the experiments and gathering debris lying around I want people who come to this exhibition to tell their children and grandchildren that there is nothing more stupid and fearful than war I want people to tell their children and grandchildren that there is nothing more stupid and more fearful than war nothing more stupid and fearful than war then I think that's a good quote to end this except for it is wrong it is wrong because as stupid and as fearful and as reprehensible as war is there is something worse than war and that is allowing this kind of evil to exist as bad as war is and war is awful war is hell and I have said that over and over again as have many others but there are worse things than war things like unit 731 things like the Nazi concentration camps things like The Rape of Nanking there are things that are worse than war and there are times when war is not only justified but it is a moral obligation and I do not say that lightly but when evil and when darkness and when malevolent and demonic spirits rise to power they must be stopped then the responsibility for that lies within all of us every day to do our best to do our best to move the world away from the darkness and the demons that linger inside men's minds they move the world toward the light and toward what is good and I think that is all I have got for tonight so echo Charles mm-hmm I think while I decompress a little bit if you could talk about ways for the crew here to move towards the light mm-hmm I'm gonna try yeah I know I know and if you think about originally mm-hmm when we started getting into these kind of podcasts that touched upon some very heavy some very disturbing subject matter that was that was where the whole sort of exists let's call it extended closing to the show began yeah kind of yeah could just and and I remember like I remember like the first time I said you like a man you just talk for a little while I need to break over here yeah that's how we ended up with this this thing yeah but then the interesting thing people would say hey thanks for doing that yeah cuz you're not the only one that needs to decompress after you hear this freaking crap yeah after you hear about this just heinous evil yeah that really happened yeah we need a little break we need a little echo Charles here too you know yeah that's that's rough where you you know you go from vivisection you know and then what if you were like hey all right that's all I got for tonight yeah like that yeah then you kind of already turned off you go into I don't know work or whatever whenever you let's do it go to bed no that's that came out with with 121 122 and 123 with Louie polar and with chesty puller Louie puller and then Jake Schick I wasn't gonna do I could I said to myself I can't do 121 and 122 and just leave 122 out there in the world by itself I need Jake Schick my brother come on in like know that you can get through that yeah you know and so this is kind of the same thing you know I just can't like walk off yeah yeah mic drop and then yeah you guys deal with it now no we're gonna deal with it together that's okay we're gonna have that go Charles help us do it it's all come back little bit a little bit a little bit try China can't forget I mean it's me you're not gonna forget that you know anyone just like you can't forget machetes season you can't forget the reaper thinking nothing so you're gonna remember but can't forget the new i'm ask her yeah and the harsh i mean just it's it's it's crazy yeah but yeah man Oh far be it from our intention to leave you with bad feelings that last we want I've said this before right we want you to remember but not dwell yes right I think that's important you know you're dealing with loss I mean I talk about that a lot when you're dealing with loss yeah you always want to remember the people you've lost but you can't dwell on it yeah and you always want to remember The Rape of Nanking you always want to remember machete season you always want to remember unit 731 you always want to remember man search for meaning you always want to remember meal I'm a skirt you want to remember those things cuz they're real and they happen and they can happen again if we let them yeah we can't dwell on them because there's there's because you know what we one good one and good will win yeah what I'm thinking yeah fully you know okay there's this movie something about a centipede maybe literally no possible way I've seen this movie but yeah I've never seen it I've seen the the the oh is it completely like psycho sick disturbing scientist guy so you know I can't help but kind of think it's when you said this isn't a movie this is this really happened and that's really the hard part when you really start to think about it as like just like how we're sitting here right now what's using the restroom really hard is you know you you picture the mother in a gas chamber with her baby and you you can't just picture a mother you can't just picture a child you have to like picture a mother and a child that you know you need to put that in you need to picture someone that you because you can't you can't make that connection maybe saying a mother and a child that that doesn't that doesn't bring it together for you they actually have to picture someone you know and their kid being that's what you need to picture being forced because that's what those people were they were people with but they were people with alive in there had hopes and dreams and all those things and they got put into a gas chamber to see how long they could last without a gas mask that's what you have to picture yeah yeah it makes the point for sure what oh here's a moral question okay you know how like some of these doctors and scientists they went on to be prosperous you know I've you know after this deal and they obviously I mean apparently some of them did some really good work where they're getting like the awards and whatnot and you know what speaking of this I was thinking about this because another really dark book that we covered on here was ordinary men in which ordinary men talked about the the palete that the Nazi police that went from being normal guys that were middle-aged hadn't been indoctrinated in the Nazi way of life as children they got kind of like swept along with the rest of the Germans and they ended up committing these heinous acts and and murdering thousands and thousands of Jews but what's interesting about that so in that story it's normal guys going evil in this story these evil guys that did evil things they come out the other side and kind of like go normal right and then they it's just so did they didn't they get kind of they got forced into it though right remember they were like hey hey you got to do this or you die they did get well not really if you remember in ordinary men their commander action in the beginning is like hey if you want if you don't want to do this go home right I mean the Japanese members there's definitely some guys getting forced into it yeah so you hear so here's the moral question it's like okay of course you know these guys committing crimes regardless of you know the the surrounding circumstances they committed these crimes of factual and then they kind of get away and then they get into normal society in there and they don't get punished right perceived like no justice right no justice but so here's the moral question so duh is it did they make up even a little bit for their crime by doing good in the future even though they didn't get punished like did they make up for it or is it more of a crime because they got to do good stuff they got to get Awards and they got to be prosperous yeah they shouldn't at the end either what if you look at it from the perspective of like hey let's look at them whole it so there's there's two ways I'm gonna stage this for you look at it holistically from like okay here's this person let's look at it from my from Jacko's perspective here's this person they did these horrible things but now they've kind of got back on track and they've put their life together and and that's that's a positive thing and they've even if you can't make up for that whole crime at least you're chipping away at some of the horrible things you did and replacing it with something good and and you can see where people come to the conclusion that like well okay I can kind of see how that makes sense that's one way of looking at it or others too by the way not just necessarily got to do all this but if they're doing good work scientifically and for you know medical schools and stuff like this is obviously they're teaching people they're probably you know making breakthroughs and you know discoveries in the field and stuff that's gonna help people in a neural you know now here's the other way I'm gonna frame it for you is from the eyes of that mother who's in that gas chamber who's watching that switch get turned and she knows it's gonna kill her and her child and there's no there's no redemption zero check good job trying to lighten up the mood over here yeah well you will amen you know all right well hey let's talk some support support Welling weird well we breaking our what we're breaking our our own code here okay weird welding bit code yes all right well let's talk about origin I feel like we should talk about origin and the first thing about origin that I will talk about is the geese the flagship product is all made in America by the way rash guards as well this is for jiu-jitsu by the way specifically but not limited to so while the guys are kind of limited to unless you want to make it dragon we suit like you're the one who recommended you know you can do judo in it you know yeah I guess technically you do karate too if you want technically I mean but they're made for jiu-jitsu the rash guards made for jiu-jitsu but you can use it for like cycling and body boarding and whatnot yeah anything that you want to protect yourself from rashes not juror masses like rash rash is actually it does have antimicrobial stuff in it is true so it is kind of predictable anyway or gene mean dot-com that's where you can get this stuff all made in America and also joggers coming from the connoisseurs comfort himself that's me people are self comment about that yes your your now becoming known yeah maybe you could parlay that into like a whole thing yeah like a whole thing things for comfort establish a standard of comfort it'll be called the connoisseur of comfort scale see I'm saying you know how like in temperature there's like Kelvin yeah Celsius Fahrenheit yep I'll be that for comfort the echo scale yeah echo scale of comfort what would the highest level of comfort be would it just be one to ten you know I'd be uh uh oj oj would be the highest what's a ranking oj Origen joggers Oh dad I'm over here I'm like I'm get Pete for some reason he's the kind guy I like to just call you know how you like you'll text someone you know really I wanna you don't really but nowadays we like to text yeah yeah you know I'm not gonna bother them I'm not gonna you know but I know for some reason I like to call Pete so call him and I'll be like hey when's the shorts coming up not first so we can you know do because I want to wear them you know that kind of stuff anyway so I'm about to call him and be like hey we need more colors of joggers or whatever but here's the thing Dewey I need more colors today so I can't just be running Pete around his factory making new colors just for me personally or maybe again I don't know but it would help but yeah they're real good joggers uh t-shirts and hoodies and whatnot good stuff mate margin Maine Marine American in America yeah which is good on a whole bunch of different levels also we got a bunch of supplements we got joint warfare we got krill oil we got discipline which is good to drink before you get after it mentally or physically and also we got milk yeah but back to joint warfare okay so let me keep it I know you you're wondering how my arm is doing I know I'll let you know so I went to Oregon the Oregon Coast last week one week forgot the joint warfare I just had surgery on my bicep about six yeah six weeks ago and you know we you know I would have FedEx truce on bro I know but yeah and thank you but you know it's how long does it take before you notice it I'm guessing the moral of the story this didn't work out yeah so and here's the thing my surgeon is good he was good he did a good job on my reattached my bicep tendon to my bone drilled the hole in the bone boom stick it through sew it up cuz she gets good shelter right so I take joint warfare the thing feels good like I'm away I had a schedule you know surprisingly because I had it done in my line years ago blah blah so it's all good I'm moving or I'm doing like push-ups doing stuff that no way I could get I could have done with booth so I got it Oregon Coast forget the joint warfare I tribute to the joint war for how far I am so I forget the joint warfare I'm in the Oregon coast I would say about two days and here's the thing in start like hurting or going backwards nothing tup but it was just this weird stiffness that sorta disagree like I couldn't straighten it out right away when I wake up you know I can't like you know I kind of got to work it out and it slowly just started to just stiffen up a little more and here's the thing I was way less active on it to where cuz when I do like push-ups and stuff where I'm using my elbow a lot it would be kind of stiff that night you know then the next day you sit up and then it's stronger you know it's just one of those thing like muscles but it's my train so I wasn't doing that not much activity and it was just general stiffness I don't want to say it felt inflamed but it felt like you know you know like you sprained your thumb or something like that and it's like swollen and it's like just jammed up you can use it but anyway it kind of felt like that functional but not optimal functional but not not optimal and then I come back two days back on the joint warfare boom back in the game that's full-on back in the game that's pretty cool it yeah it's real for a hell of a thing man good supposed to mean chondroitin curcumin good for your brain too by the way yeah just like discipline yeah also mulk as you were saying yeah what up with mom well there's first of all marks awesome second of all what is milk it smoked everyone knows that now I think that's pretty much gonna be the new thing and we have peanut butter chocolate will be coming out I wanna say a week I wanna say within a week you're all like yeah we have our brother and Chuck we have peanut butter and chocolate coming in about a week yeah maybe no no it's not even maybe go straight up one weeks having done the deed okay that's good so Molk protein how many how much you how many grams of protein a moment you know 20 to 3 scoops so and I heard this I recently actually I didn't read it I saw it on a video YouTube video I know that sounds like or YouTube video but I say this one had credibility so you know so you need that me but a good amount of protein is one gram vapor they thought it was like 1.5 you trying to build muscle all this stuff oh it is changed it's about its weight according to this YouTube video it's like point seven for something like one point that's for heaven I don't know honey more than that I'll tell you right now all right well there you go malt get it and it tastes good real good by the way it's dessert yeah eating is more classified as a dessert that's the question yes currently it is currently that's how I classify to even oh I literally eat my dinner and then I'm all excited to have more and what I went on the trip and I haven't figured out how to travel with milk yet which is a real bummer but you know it's it's scoop you can't bring six scoops and I'm real light traveler yeah and so now when I go somewhere and I get whatever I'll get a good meal I'll get a legit meal but I want to dessert yeah I want molt does that you do put it in a ziploc bag yeah puffs not not even you carry on by the way then you gotta bring a shaker yeah right there's this multiple problems that I have I've got to figured I'll figure out a system one thing I can't say is to is when I when I I've always if I drink protein shakes in the past I would have to use a big shaker and put a lot put probably 16 ounces of milk forever one thing that's good about milk and cuz that's the only way you feel satisfied with mochi you can use one of the small little shakers so this is a possibility I'm creating ideas ready I can bring one of the small shakers bring a little bit of milk in it and then just hit it up will be good yeah cuz you don't need a big giant shaker cuz you don't need to drink that much milk to feel like it like it like you got enough dessert anyway back to the deal emerging camp yeah it's coming August through September 2nd this is weird but we might it looks like we might actually sell out at a certain point how do you sell out of the can think we so if you want to come get registered because it we're probably gonna end up because you can look wheat we have we already bought more Matt's double the Matt so we had to muster yeah it's a lot of Matt's but still I mean there's still a limit yeah so if you want to come to that come I'll be there echo we there Dave Burke will be there lay fab and I'll be there JPS on the fence Dean Lister Dean list will be there sure yeah yeah that's good it we're you know when you learn stuff at they I mean there's there you know there's there you're gonna learn specific things from specific people and all that stuff but don't look at it like this thing where you're gonna go and you're just gonna learn what they have to teach you you know they're gonna teach you sliders are just like the 15 or 20 black belts there yes so on top of that if you made it your goal if you win and you went and you said went to each one of those 15 black belts and said show me your move your best move yeah if you did that and he walked away that would be that would be solid yeah and but you you couldn't this is not this isn't a hey show me your move and you spend three minutes no I'm talking if you see if you spent like an hour maybe even hour and a half going over what's your best move like I bet I could teach certain moves for an hour and a half and just show every little detail if you came to the immersion camp and that's what you did you'd be walking out of there CSUN if it'd be rough if everyone did that because you know the art yeah I don't think I don't think you could logistically do it but I will say this that on top of what all the instructors there and not to mention just other experienced people what they have to offer and teach you you can come and be like hey my rear naked choke needs work yeah oh yeah this is how I do it eight chocolate come here this is how I do it this is all day by the way you have this opportunity how I do it and show well that's that's one thing that you could do because you can't just literally train the entire time but you can get shown and you can work moves oh yeah you can't just train cuz you'll die if but the point is there though where you can come and you can come to emerging camp right and it's good again to learn from from everything that one has to teach but you can go in with specific like questions up with your game where are used to like oh for sure how am I gonna get better of course my Jesus is gonna get better in general that's good of course but if it's like wait will my mount if you if your mount escape to get better and that's what your focus on nothing you can ask actually well I'll give you this advice if you have trouble being mounted and escaping them out a good person to ask about that is actually echo Charles you have a very good mount escape oh yes very teachable that's one of your best moves is that amount escape I will say that right now authoritative Lee Brian OH got a good mount escape thanks bruh also shifting gears so yeah anyway emerging camp August 26 to September 2nd origin mein kampf or all that crap that we just talked about yeah or do you mean main like the state and ma I yeah or JEP mean calm also if you want to get these cool shirts that say discipline equals freedom Jaco is a store it's called Jaco store so go to Jocko store.com they anyway that's where you can get the shirts to say display freedom get after it anyway if you want to represent with Jaco gear it's more the philosophy it's not Jocko gear doesn't really have your face on it or nothing all wait yes it does have your face on it and it says good one of them maybe two one two I don't know anyway go there chuckle store calm if you like something get something you want to represent in your town also rash guards on their hoodies on their t-shirts rash guards truckers hats you like the Flex fit let's say I don't know wear hats I don't because you're bald yeah my head could hit a tan but actually I did I went in phases not to go to do you said you were gonna get me much more of these truckers hats and you did not which one does this was real yeah or deaf court deaf Korea oh they're on the way don't you mean braided right now okay actually I added like a bonus color of the I don't support bonus colors a bonus no but it's like a khaki uh like a like a brown like a 1000 trois going tactic all right anyway chuckles heard a lot of good stuff do you just stuff on their women's stuff on there I have to mean he's whatnot some posters on there too by the way oh no about that who trying to run it today yeah like it cuz a lot of people and I mean for real a lot of people like a lot a lot is that like seven what are the posters of this vehicles freedom and the good poster those are the ones that people would hit me up often very often be like hey my gym I want to post her I want to post her for my room I want to post her from my office you know 24 by 36 posters there's two posters on there I'll make other other ones but yeah that's some post show actually boom represent in your gym in your office in your home I go into my home first thing when you walk in it's interesting a poster of our podcast did good poster that's cool yeah so your face is kind of sort of there you know representing in my house thanks Junko by the way also good way to support the podcast is to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and Google Play stitcher wherever you listened to two podcasts interesting oh there's so many of them out there now there's a lot of podcasts no platform sorry yeah there's a lot of podcasting there's a lot of podcast platforms yes it's the new media new media new media voice yeah it is voice it it is voice also in addition to this podcast mm-hmm which is called the jockle podcast there's also the warrior kid podcast which is for kids but I promise you can get a lot out of it as an adult too cool thing I've been doing on that I've done it twice I'm gonna do it more but so it's questions for uncle Jake is the basic premises a premise of it but now I have stories from Uncle Jake and the stories from uncle Jake are actually from uncle Jake's childhood and they kind of teach a lesson to people yeah so that's number podcast number 14 and 15 are the first two that I've started doing stories from Uncle Jake so I think people will like those yeah they're little yeah they're good some so this kind of like character development sprinkled in there with bless to me the lesson one and I'm maybe this is intentional but the lesson is the primary of course and it's deep same they're very consistent with the whole Uncle Jake lesson that the idea is I'm explaining how Uncle Jake got his values yeah from experiences that he went through as a child yeah and they're the stories are five minutes eight minutes something like that they're there they're pretty short stories but they're cool yeah they're enjoyable so warrior kid podcast you can check that one out it's it's good and if kids if your kids have questions for Uncle Jake just hit me up on Twitter yeah send them to Twitter and I'll capture them yep good one also YouTube subscribe to the YouTube channel we do have a YouTube channel if you're interested in the video version of this podcast or if you see echoes editing skills sure some people say you went over the top sure so you there's a video called warpath it's a it's probably the most controversial video from my perspective cuz it was originated with Christmas music which I don't like Christmas music and echo made with Christmas music and you put a lot of time and effort into it on Christmas so if we want to talk leadership here like from my perspective I knew you've been working really hard on this thing and then you showed it to me and then the Christmas music kicked in which I didn't like didn't match but you know I just had to be like hey man it's great I really appreciate you lots of great video so I lied to you is that a lie you did it say great no you did not lie okay said and I quote interesting choice of music for this one that's it you know I also will say that I don't 100% trust myself like I'd think to myself well echo really liked Christmas music so he put it in there so that's fine if that maybe some other people will like it too and that's I'm not here to like dictate what people like and don't like I'm just here to tell you what I like and don't like yes but then you but then you read it the video with with more appropriate music sure which is good sure but but then some people said you got crazy you went too far with it look you went to for you too much stuff exploded you got too much stuff going on there is the same amount of explosion I know what I'm saying I never really paid too much attention to what people say because I couldn't even get past the music once I got past the music and I checked that YouTube comments which I know right yeah you know I went there and people some people the majority of people you said amazing right the mature some people just threw it out there hey take it easy breh yeah yeah you can taste it you can't you crossed the line alright if you went over the line I'm I think you were around the line yeah I think you might have you know step the toes a little bit but we have to find out where the line is right yes and I think you did a good job of pressing up against mine without dis gaem well let me let me tell you the philosophy in turn and tell me if this is a good way to approach it so a lot of those videos okay so consider the first one we did good right it's the first one for it okay good out of the gate I think I might have told the story like there's a story behind but we were recording paka it was like number three or five one of the first initial ones and I was like oh my camera was sitting over there behind kind of behind over in the in the corner and if you notice on good one it shows you you can see like it's behind like a monitor and so you can see this die I just went and pressed I kind of moved the camera a little bit and I just press record before you said that that part and I was like oh I'm gonna record this just in case on me I'll make a video out of it or something or whatever and if you look at I watch it the other day or do like Joe Rogan guys we're talking about it watch it you know and I remember thinking and you're like reading and when you're looking up like you're looking at me and everything the same this stuff to me and on my father this is crazy I'm glad I'm recording it but that wasn't me it wasn't like okay we're gonna do this we're gonna record this and we're gonna do that you know it was just like I'm gonna try to make a fun video out of it then just put some random like graphics on there that I was just having fun doing so these videos you do it they're kind of done out of just fun you know and every one and every once in a while hey man you have too much fun you grab some sound effects and you make the walls crumble you do kind of stuff you know you have some fun with it I mean there's no I guess there is kind of their thematic I guess right there's Amite to it like warpath like yeah it's kind of for me it's like it's it's pretty awesome to watch yeah it's just I could see where you're like you I can see where you start going down the path of like just more is better and that's really what happens and I'll catch myself doing and it'll take a long as I'm like brother it's not even necessary and in fact and some people they will bring up this point which is a good point where I put stuff crumbling right for okay warp out or take warpath for example I put the walls crumbling and Jaco and Dean rolling and when they when they clash like the walls come shattering down and saw these special effects which is like cool when you look at but all the special effects the sound effects and like all this stuff is like is it kind of getting in the way of the message because the message is like you're saying something specific you know so it's kind of getting in the way you know true so I gotta watch out for that yeah and I think that's a good point when people say that my dam that's true and cuz you don't know when you're the major course almost more stoked yeah I guess but I ya got a 100 a there's also a warrior kid YouTube channel okay so the reason that we separated the warrior kid and the warrior kid and the jockle podcast channel channel blah blah blah is because we know that there's things on this podcast and on the therefore on the youtube channel jockle podcast there's stuff that's inappropriate for children to listen to or watch and so this is a way to separate them so there's also a warrior kid YouTube channel that your kid can sit there and watch and and hopefully I'm not guaranteeing because I don't know how they algorithms work that pop up the next video selections but hopefully your kid can watch the warrior kid videos without getting hooked into the unit 731 testimony about you to the section so watch out for that yep story and I think caller too by the way yeah Jake as it were yeah also good way to support yourself is to get some new gear if your workouts are boring gives me new gear from on it by the way on it calm slash choco good place to go good information to about starting your kettlebell workout browse and I just thought of this kid yesterday was in the pool with my daughter and my wife was saying you know you know how like okay so you might seem like BJ Penn do this where he'll go in the bottom of the ocean and I'll carry this rocking that rotten Hawaii yeah yeah that's how so I'm like hey you could grab one of those kettlebells for sure and and my daughter she's five so she's like yeah I was like yeah I'll go grab the little it's like it's like it's like a pixie you know I don't know I don't know what it is but it's like one of those legend bells yeah yeah that's a smaller net that I got for so she grabs it and she goes in the pool she's like I'm gonna say yeah walk to the other side and it's like D it's she goes kinda into the deep suction so she goes and she's carrying it she's doing the whole Japan with the little kettlebell she's five by the way under the water and we're watching it were like oh that's cute but she starts to sort of run out of air and she don't want to drop the kettlebell because it's like gonna slam on the bottom of a pool and I don't know maybe she just she's five she didn't think of that you know kind of thing so I see her trying to like swim with it like trying to get to the top and it's kind of deep and I was like oh I started to get worried and then she started a little bit more urgency so I had to jump in grab her echo with the save save but she did right when I got tore she put it up on the little there's a little ledge on the other side of the pool there she managed to do it just but just barely so I went in there with my middle daughter was probably eight eight years old and we had a party at the beach for her birthday or and so I was dealing with I could as long as I could I was dealing with the games and or whatever and finally I'm like you know what that's it we're going we're gonna get some so we formed the party up into two teams and we're gonna compete against each other in obstacle courses and sprints and all this other stuff and this particular location has a river a gentle flowing tidal river that comes out and anyways one of the contest I had was okay you so we got a swim across and there's big rocks and stuff and I'm gonna swim across the river and come back and whoever brings back the biggest rock is the winner so my middle daughter is topped off she's tough and she's strong she's a wrestler and gymnastics and all that crap yeah we're not crap but all that stuff you know like she's just she's a beast and she's mentally like um I don't want to use the term psycho but like she's real determined about stuff so anyways this is what she's a little kid you know and so go go across the river and whoever brings back the biggest rock wins so she goes so they all go across and kids are grabbing rocks that are size of let's say let's say a softball mm you know maybe a softball What's in between the size of a softball and a soccer ball I don't know some so something okay loaf of bread like like maybe a small loaf of bread that's the max right that any of these kids are grabbing my daughter grabs something that's like the size of a like a legit watermelon like giant giant giant rock to hand o to hand drunk robbed giant rock like a four or five loaves of bread just a big big giant rock and I'm watching it I'm thinking oh she's gonna say to the bottom and so I have to let it go and stuff to go back and get a smaller one maybe she can still do okay so she's come and the river has weird contours on the bottom you know you're you're you can walk a little while then it just drops super deep and you got to make it yeah so I'm watching her and she's she's Harper even carry it and and she carries he gets that deep section just drops down goes under and I'm waiting for her to pop up but she doesn't pop up and I'm waiting for to pop up and she doesn't pop up and I'm waiting for a pop up and she doesn't pop up and then I see like an air bubble come up and I'm like oh day but the air bubble has progressed so now I'm watching the air bubbles like progress yeah they're coming closer to the other side and and then it starts to come up and sure enough out she comes like a like a beast powered through that and brings the rock up drops it at my feet victory is yours that's that's actually pretty powerful because Braille when you're I mean unless she was like depends on her mindset so her she was probably like I'm not gonna let this Rock defeat me I'm gonna bring it to the other side and that's kind of the mindset I'm not gonna drop it for that reason I think my daughter it was like I'm can't drop this thing so I'm stuck with it he's a kind of thing that's what you know so she started you could tell she was a little bit going into panic mode yeah yeah so it's a whole different scenario technically but that's pretty savage though do you think that I should because she's probably she's scared she even said like later like oh that was like scary and all this stuff I should probably make her do it again oh yeah yeah like not make her like do it jump in there my daughter my youngest daughter did the big cliff jump yesterday in long swim in the ocean to open open ocean waters no you gotta get him and she was I was I thought she was gonna be panicky yeah cuz it's big dropping its ocean and whatever and this is what's one way of action yeah but she was I said are you good and she said yeah you do yeah yeah yeah that you just I mean unless she got traumatized by it or something like this yeah we're brown Mike it's weird come from Hawaii jump off everything you don't want right so we have this ledge you know that you know you saw it and it's not that high but for a one-year-old it's pretty high my boy and my daughter once used one too they just jump off we catch him I can't swim yet you know and my son he jumped off a few times and was all good but then one time he went to walk and there's this little just a slight little dip and you know when you're you know you're new to walk he slipped he tripped and he fell in i caught him but he full-on like he decide on the edge of the thing and he's Ginny's crying he's won and just just over one maybe made him do it again he didn't want to do it though but so I didn't like push him again I just kept like hey do it I got you I got you and he'd be like you know crying or whatever and then you know my daughter would do it I would do it then he finally like reluctantly did it and we cheered for him and now he's all good good girl like forces himself he makes me catch him now he's like almost two anyway but yeah the point is you make him do it again right yeah but you're very accurate and saying don't traumatize him yeah you going right now ah come off now it's just getting worse you're not you're not yeah you know it's like the hey do it you should do it oh you want to take a little break that's okay but you know you should definitely do this as if you've already done it before you don't want to traumatize him worse yeah yeah that's not gonna work out good yeah especially with the water man cuz it's like it's one minute it's all fun and games and literally your mind can flip to like I'm about to die I used to say this so in the 90s in the SEAL Teams when there was no war going on and whatever you'd go out and you do training ah there was times I would always tell guys when you're working the water it's a real world mission like we didn't know what a real world mission I've never been on one but the fact of the matter is when you're working with the water it's a real world mission because if you screw something up you can easily die easily if you're not careful one up one down just gonna throw it out there if you're doing any kind of this training and you're training the water one person stays up on the surface the other person you know in and be a lifeguard you don't do the simultaneous training in the water so just throwing that out there was a little safety note for everyone yes one up one down that's the rule yes and especially if you're carrying the kettlebells from on it or otherwise at the bottom of the pool the bottom of the ocean in the bottom of a reservoir bottom of any body of water yeah one up one down I'm going down war nonetheless so that's how we utilize the pixie I think it's called pixie it's one of the legend bells anyway if I guess that doesn't really have much to do with what on it offers but it just I just thought of that cuz it just happened nonetheless hey he was represented in the story boom indeed anyway if you want cool fitness stuff on it calm slash chuckle a lot of good information on there some socks on there I mentioned the socks like it's like this big deal and here's the thing it is on it socks of the TSA the other day I just uh not on it sucks yeah issues you know they were looking they're like those are dope socks anyway uh nakhon slash chocolate it's a good spot a psychological warfare is an album that you can get where I talk about stuff of overcoming when you have little moments of weakness and I'm gonna make another one good and make another one got a gum plotting on it it looks like it's gonna be called all your excuses are lies yes good night good title you get that iTunes Google Play whatever and also chocolate white tea people have now seen that we have cans of jockle white tea where do you get them you get them on Amazon if you want them it tastes awesome you can get the dry tea on there too which you add water to and then you brew it and then if either one you're gonna get a 8000 pound deadlift so that's cool do that got some books waiting the warrior kid and marks mission two books which one do you like better do I like better I can't say because the first one the og the original one from wimpy to warrior will always have that's the one that established the establishes the ethos in my house anyway but you know I can't say I think they're both outstanding but it's good how you evolve the issues yeah it's like full basic think about how many people like all you're gonna write more well yeah what are you writing about think about all the issues you have as a human being and then you talk about you should you add as a kid yeah like we're gonna cover all those yeah that's like ten books right uncle Jake's got some help for you yeah so yeah way the warrior kid books the the one thing that's cool is people as a parent you're like man how do I get my kid to even something as stupid as cleaning your room right how do you get your kid to clean your room having read this book I got pictures I got a picture on Twitter the other day kids kind of vacuum cleaner yeah and the dad's apartment look at this that's a real thing even as um like okay so kids can read the book of course but I read it to my daughter who's four at the time for yeah so I'm reading it and it's answering a bunch of questions I have so it's like hey you know my kid you know my daughter's okay oh you mean parenting course yes and it's just little stuff little stuff sometimes you won't even really think up so like okay for example and I said I mentioned this in before but is a huge deal that I still use it like it's not up front on my mind every single time so you know how like you'll have a kid and they'll be like real good at something just kind of right away maybe your kids more athletic or something maybe they're bigger taller or whatever so they kind of win real quick you know so when they run into a situation where they're in an activity that actually requires practice and like a cartwheel or something like this and so my daughter she's being she the athletic little girl way bigger she's that you know and so she has this friend same age she's like a week either older a younger I forget but they're the same age and she can do a cartwheel and just fly through cartwheels one-handed cartwheels all this stuff this other girl can she's way smaller you know way whatever so my daughter she doesn't like that not the fact that the girl can but just she can you know so she tries to do it totally so that she can so it's it's very upsetting so uncle Jake said something in the first one that this will always stick one she complains to me about it can't do a cartwheel in how much you can do a cartwheel but I can and all this stuff I say and I quote uncle Jake how do you expect to be good at something when you've never practiced boom just like the times table yeah are you gonna be done in time sir what you never studied you know and makes it known how to do a cartwheel foreign known how to do a cartwheel just like how you know our other neighbor can play the guitar you know much practice you know kind of thing and it's crazy because just that simple line right there I choose for and she understands you know she's like practicing but anyway that's how that's all that book is then war your kid books there's two of them where the warrior kid and marks mission you can get those you can also get discipline equals freedom the Field Manual field manual how to get after it simple as that the audio version of that is not on audible it's on iTunes Amazon music all that stuff also extreme ownership extreme ownership is on audible and I just looked it was number two on Apple audible books whatever that's called Apple iBooks or something number two right now folks been out for almost three years what is Apple iBooks it's where you can get books for your eye yeah audiobooks are key yeah oh speaking of books by the way if you want to get this one oh unit 731 third testimony yeah I'm putting on the land unit 731 just that yeah oh that subtitle is Japan's secret biological warfare in World War two yeah dark book but see really see strongly a feel strongly that that's like one you can o honor the whole thing yeah it's crazy but yeah anyway I'm gonna put them out on our website chuckle podcast no someone just hit me up on Twitter that he's okay we we had a long road trip for fourth of July my wife me and my kids aged you know 13 whatever listen to 121 122 and 123 yeah that's real significant you know I don't wanna say it family time but like that's a real the compared to the other things you could be doing in the car that's a real good thing to do in your car introduce your kids to better history a bit of human nature a bit of the darkness of the world a bit of overcoming that darkness that's pretty cool these are the kind of books well so that's that but yeah these book you're saying these kind of books you kind of want to have it's I think it's important to I think it's important to know what's going on and know what has happened in the world as I said yeah you want to check that out yeah but yeah I put it on the on the website that's the point I'm have a or we have it on the page books from the episodes all by episode systems from obviously 133 yep and and also you've got on the website because extreme ownership which I talked about is the first book I wrote with my brother late famine and we wrote another book which is called the dichotomy leadership that's also on the website right yes yeah and pull yeah so that's that's coming out September 25th if you want to get that on the first dish you can go for the third dish if you want though who it's a difference between third and third edition in seventh edition nothing it's the same what's the difference between first a dish and second a dish well it's you were in the game yes so it's kind of like the difference if you take if you run a race or if you're recognized not recognized but let's say you run a race you first okay first place guy second place third place die you all get medals what is what is the medal made out of we'll just say metal for lack of a better term what's the difference between the metal gold no nothing only the collar psychological oh it's all made of the same stuff bad analogy yeah I don't even follow it but all right first edition that's the point that's all get it on I'm talking to be first year and also if you want to bring myself Lafe Babb and JP Danelle Dave Burke we got Mike Sorelli got Flint Cochran now on the team if you need help with leadership in your organization whatever kind of organization it is you can hit us up a tional on front is the name of the company we solve problems through leadership national on front dot-com juju ssam we have one more muster in 2018 it is in San Francisco it's October 17th and 18th it's gonna sell out I was I just got an update from Jamie today the office director and I still on front an insurer she was saying that we're gonna sell out a lot sooner than we thought so if you want to come up there extreme ownership calm the muster up I got a video to post about that too I haven't posted it yet but yeah that's that also on top of the muster we have the roll call which is for police military law enforcement firefighters and first responders it's for people in uniform that's happening September 21st in Dallas Texas it's only one day so you don't have to miss me too much work it's a lower price point so you can afford it or you can get your organization to pay for it a little easier come on down to that it's a great program I just finished putting together the agenda yesterday and so come on down until then if you want to kick it with us it's a little bit more virtually until we are together live which we will be will be together live at the muster in San Francisco or at the roll call in Dallas Texas or or at the immersion camp in Maine we'll see you at one of those but until then if you do want to kick it with us we will be on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on - face a Pokeball echo is that echo Charles and I am at Jocko willing and of course to all the military personnel that are listening you provide the freedom that allows us to do what we do every day you also hold the line against the evil that we talked about today so thank you to police law enforcement firefighters paramedics Border Patrol other first responders you actually provide this safety that allows us to do what we do every day so thanks to you and to the families that support all those that serve thank you for supporting those families that serve and everyone else that's listening thank you for listening thanks for supporting I know it was a rough listen it's rough for me to read it's rough for me to talk about but it's also reality and if you don't face reality you can't fix it if you don't face your past you can't learn from it so what you have to do is you have to face them you have to face what scares you you have to face what bothers you you have to face your weaknesses and face your fears and face your own darkness face them own them and overcome them all by stepping up and getting after it and until next time this is echo and Jocko out

Channel: Jocko Podcast

Views: 219,085

Keywords: Discipline, freedom, military, extreme ownership, leadership, advice, jocko willink, echelon front, navy seal, jocko podcast, excerpt, echo charles, leader, lead, win, unit 731, imperial japan, biological warfare, vivisection

Id: mizmXTWDf-4

Length: 154min 51sec (9291 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 13 2018