Joaquin Phoenix | SmartLess

foreign hey everybody Welcome do you love comedy do you love to laugh well buckle up because you're gonna [ __ ] cry your eyes out welcome to Smart Bus [Music] smart [Music] hi everybody oh Sean what a nice top you have on this morning yeah oh look what's it say I can't read it it says it's a smart list and that's Haze 20. Haze on the back it's all right so Haze 20 what does it say 22 on the back 26 26 26 that's your birth date right yeah yeah yeah yeah well so it's a smartless shirt you can guess we're gonna get the freaking merch plug right at the top yeah right there it's right there I'm wearing it good to know that it's good to know that we make it in a double XL too yeah good for you you know what I mean it's good you got both boobs stuck right in there yeah right Bang Bang Pow Pow how's everybody feeling is everybody a little sleepy today yeah a little sleepy a little early you could feel that I could feel that um I um last yesterday I saw him in Tech week oh well this is probably gonna air after we open well what's Tech week for what are you talking about are you doing uh a place in New York at the Tabasco so uh at the Tabasco theater it's so spicy this show y'all you gotta go check it out stupid um anyway the Belasco Theater David Belasco was the owner and this I just found out yesterday I couldn't wait to share it with you guys actually last night uh because we were working like 12 14 hour days whatever it is and uh well I don't know how many hours and it's long hours and it seems like you do know them yeah and uh and so This Crew guy comes because everybody has these stories because there's an apartment on top of the theater you know that what's that oh the crew guys the crew guy yeah the crew guys there's an apartment I'm like oh these guys got a screw guys all right I'm like screw guy please and they just send one over right away so the screw guy gets there oh speaking of which Scotty Scotty got his Q okay so this crew guy told me about this story because it's supposed to be haunted sometimes and so David blasko who owned the theater years and years and years ago there's this apartment on top of the theater that's now abandoned and nothing's up there but he used to live there and There Was An Elevator Shaft where he used to bring up you know lady friends over and over right and so one of the ladies fell through the Elevator Shaft and died it's now like boarded up and people say and they call her lady in blue because people say they can see her in the seats sometimes how do you fall through An Elevator Shaft I guess it was open and there was no elevator I guess I don't know boy there is an episode of La law once I'm not making it up we're the guys I swear to God it was on the I just saw a clip of it recently and they're having a conversation by the elevator during this woman like speaks really tersely to the guy she's like so you better watch out blah blah blah elevator doors open she walks into the Elevator Shaft and Falls plunges to her death and the guy's like oh my God it was on TV writer's room is like how are we gonna what are we gonna do in this episode how are we gonna have her doors open and she just falls through just like the lady in blue yeah have you hit [ __ ] it yet on this on this play so I mean it it it's a long run right it's been amazing for Jason and both Jason and me it's been a lot I mean yeah so but you haven't even started performances yet you've been you've been whacking away at it for how long now you've already done it in Chicago for months and months and months yeah now because it's so good and was so well received you take it to New York to the to the hot and spicy Tabasco and you you're in rehearsals right now you haven't gotten to the point of like it's enough um no I mean you you as a as you're discovering new things about it every day right yeah you do surprise guest just mentioned just just uh yeah so this is really interesting interesting so maybe we should just start I I think he it's a he uh has got comments on this too should we get right to him I mean by the way should we mention the play is open now yeah I guess the play is open now by the way please open no New York at the Belasco wait what's it called what's the play called okay and did I like it on opening night you would love it it's called good night Oscar okay there it is all right good night is there a comma in there there is after night and good night I didn't know his two words I thought it was one word and if you find yourself at the theater watch out for a gaping shaft oh boy um we got to put that on the Sean list so you thought good night was one word I did that didn't you think it was one word probably not just like good morning has good morning ever been one word you know what else listener hang on Sean listener Sean uh was shocked to learn that uh uh John F Kennedy was not shot in Washington DC in the last episode because it's it's stunning to me you know what else listener is stunning about Sean he was really surprised that Beatles the band no I'm not the only one that thought that didn't know meant beat on a drum b-a-b-e-a-t Sean I'm just noticing you're in your place in New York right now and you guys you've been there for a month now but you don't in the last couple years you haven't spent a ton of time there no but in that back shelf there did you guys go to knickknacks or us load up on the knickknacks that's a real chapter knick-knacks too up there on his own little it's nice though real well that's totally all right quiet down here comes a respectable guest all right listen this fellow doesn't do this okay he doesn't do it at all he's trying to keep quiet and do his work and while I haven't asked him my bet is is that he's dreading this and that he's thrilled that a full six minutes and 15 seconds are already over without him having to talk my job is to make this as painless as breezy as possible and I need your help man because this is a Grammy award-winning artist from Port Puerto Rico and he's got a black belt in karate okay most folks however know him as one of the best actors of Our Generation so please say hello to actually one of the kindest warmest friendliest most humble fellas I know let's welcome Joaquin Phoenix oh my God come on wow there he is there he is okay hi everybody hi wait you're in a trailer aren't you are you in a trailer yeah so I'm on set ah oh for the Joker too yeah so I'm listening to the Jenny you guys are on Jenny power right now exactly oh that's a generator now what so then this is your lunch hour no we're actually shooting uh kind of splits so so um you know we're going to start a little bit so I just came up a little early the Beat from Beatles is that really for beat like drums oh yes yes that's exactly right the question that had to do with the beat poets oh oh I didn't even think about that but no it has to do with the with the beat um I thought it was the buzz Sean real quick uh because Joaquin mentioned it uh tell Tracy what uh a splits are it's always sensible the best hours in all which is like okay it is the best so splits listener is when you start um at noon and you end at midnight as opposed to if you shoot full nights you start when the Sun goes down and you end when the sun comes up splits is kind of a half day half night shoot yeah that's right perfect yeah that's perfect walking I don't even know where to start man I don't know you at all we've never met and I'm such a fan you're uh uh honestly it's just yeah and and um I guess we let's let's do it kind of like how we always I what I want to know was what was the first of all because you've you've done so many amazing uh characters and so many great movies but what was the first your first memory like your first job that you did uh first job I did was a guest starring spot on a TV show called Seven Brides for Seven Brothers which my brother River uh start in and uh they were shooting in uh Northern California and I think just by by default I think just because it was easy to get uh somebody local me and my sister played the small part in the show um and I think that was probably my first like significant job uh the one time I I worked with River were you I think you were were you not in it too when we did the um the thing about the Kennedys um uh we played we played like young Kennedy's yeah I always barely remember I forget what it's called um anyway it was like a movie of the week or something like that about oh Robert F Kennedy and his times did you play one of the because you were so small you probably couldn't even talk then or maybe just barely because we were like we were 10 or 11 or something like that weren't we yeah so I was six or seven No I um I don't I don't remember that I I vaguely do now that that you mentioned it it's like out in Massachusetts but I think the very first thing I did was was um and then and then so the the so the acting to you as I we're not I'm not going to hammer you with your your freaking method and all that stuff because I know you hate talking about that as as do most um I don't know what it is I know exactly it's just well that's what people ask me no I like that I guess my question is when did you get a sense that that this acting thing might be a really comfortable thing for you to do and not something that's going to be a lot of work you know that it's not going to be like I wouldn't I wouldn't say that it's very comfortable but I certainly don't don't care about that and I'm not I'm not looking for something that's comfortable um I'm looking for a a unique experience yeah you get it though right but when you see like like Joaquin when you when you see an actor talk about their process and we've all seen it and people get into it and they want to like Focus first of all I remember doing this thing once and somebody's asking it like about so we were doing BoJack Horseman and I I got kind of I think I was kind of a dick but they were like asking about the process and I said why is everybody so uh obsessed with how the sausage is made why can't they just enjoy the sausage right like it's not that interesting and and but but but then I see like like you know these actors who talk to spend a lot of time and you see them in these interviews and they're talking about their process and stuff and I'm kind of like okay man like if you want you want accolades for what you're doing and you want us to applaud the the way you did it like uh it seems a little selfish you have to forgive like everybody when they're doing an interview that's true because you're just like it's impossible virtually impossible not to be an [ __ ] when you're doing interview at least for me that's my experience I mean everybody [ __ ] sound stupid that's true it's just not a good way to come across and and oftentimes like a lot of those quotes are from like when you've flown uh to go to like a film festival in Europe and you're jet lagged and you have like a hundred interviews and you start off just going like I'm not gonna do any of that [ __ ] and within 30 minutes you're just like whatever it takes just give me the [ __ ] out of here I'll say anything so like right yes I read quotes or see interviews and I go what a [ __ ] like there you go uh I've done so much worse um so I always feel like you have to give people like I think I think you're I'm with you on that and that's totally fair enough and yeah like the the interview and or junket process is one of the worst sort of you feel your soul leaving your body and you think like every word you say you're like God I hate myself so much for just when you're trying to come up with different ways of course the same freaking question you end up backing into a dumb answer yeah I think that what I meant was more that there are people it seems like they go out of their way to consistently talk about that and you're like okay that's what I was referring to however having said yeah I mean maybe yeah I don't know I I always think like whatever it takes whatever works for you um yeah it doesn't really matter and and you know I understand there are some there are some um rules that it feels like it requires you to okay for me every time I I work I know that I'm gonna experience like an ungodly amount of humiliation it's just it's just how it's gonna go there's no way that I can get through it without being humiliated and um I think that's part of like letting go in some ways right because it's it's kind of stupid like what we do is stupid yeah um yeah I like surrendering too it is embarrassing and like it's it's really difficult to do some things because if if you if you actually step out for a second and you're like objective you look at yourself you just cringe it's so it's so [ __ ] embarrassing and stupid so sometimes I understand like you have to I I find that I have to like Rush right into it and just go like just humiliate me right now make me feel like nothing and so that I'm willing to do this thing because if I really think about it um I'll just be so embarrassed that I won't be able to to do it it's like the stand-up comic that goes out there on purpose and and tries to bomb you know like to sort of rip off the Band-Aid and just like I'm up here I'm exposed hear the jokes or here's the non-joke and that almost becomes a performance of just raw vulnerability and let's all get in it together um I I always find questions like surrender there is that moment where you gotta where you do have to surrender and I think that you do like I watch you do all these characters in these movies over the last number of years and I always when I think about someone like you I think like there's a guy who's like sensitive to the material he's like I I I would never want to be like hey man how did you do this scene I'm like he did a scene how he did the scene you understood the material you took it in you were sensitive to it and then you just like worked with the material that you were given and that was your interpretation that was your collaboration with the material like full stop like right and it's also like you know journalists critics reporters whatever just kind of doing just enough of their job to get yeah maybe you should fill in the blank and so you know with no thought behind it I I can't stand that how did you lose the weight for Joker oh here he comes Sean here he comes um what about do you remember your girl you're when you were growing up you guys lived a very uh sort of atypical uh adolescent like I did as well um how much of it do you remember do you remember what the policy was in your house about well devices didn't exist back then but TV and and that or or was it the kind of house where go outside find a rock find a stick and entertain yourself like it kind of was in my house yeah I don't think we really had a TV until you know until I was probably 11 or 12 or so yeah I don't know I mean maybe a bit younger maybe because we'd been working but by then but certainly when I was very young I don't think there there was even a TV in the house um but we we did there were five of us right so it's it's easy to entertain yourself and there's five kids right and um my dad was always really amazing at finding houses to rent that were always like um you know in La you can live like we grew up in the in the valley for Lawton there's there's houses that are like like government land right there's just like mountain ranges right like if that's the backyard so suddenly you could go there and so that's what we enjoy doing right just playing games and using our imagination um so that's what I remember what was your what was that growing up forgive me I don't know uh Joaquin were you so you mentioned growing up in the valley so were you born in La like that was no born in Puerto Rico oh that was true yeah I was born in Puerto Rico oh really that was true um yeah we let's see I think first we lived in uh when we came to the to the station Puerto Rico we were in Florida and then my my mother uh was College roommates with Penny Marshall uh Penny Marshall yeah oh wow really yeah and the Vernon Shirley was very popular at the time and my brother and sister my older brother and sister Reverend rain would um my brother learned to play guitar very young and they would perform at like talent shows um and stuff and they were like winning these talent shows no way so I think they felt like this like um just this curiosity and natural progression towards like something in the entertainment field um my parents didn't really have a lot of experience with it right so I don't think they really knew but I think that it seemed that the kids had um I don't know I don't really want to say talent but whatever the [ __ ] it was right yeah something some kind of like creative spark yeah um I think they wanted to support that and so my mom actually reached out to Penny Marshall um so we were thinking of coming to Los Angeles and would you meet the kids and and I think she said don't don't you can imagine like somebody called you like from your past like you went to college like hey have these kids we better come out and work when you meet them at Penny's like let me stop you there yeah no way please please don't come out and I think we packed up the next day and uh I went to LA and um yeah that's that that's [ __ ] crazy so what were your parents doing at the time that they're like in I think you said Florida like what's going on my dad um did like manual labor like he he um was like the groundskeeper for this this wealthy man I think was like a recording producer I can't remember his name um and there was a us like a little Guest House on the property where we lived and my dad took care of the grounds um and my mom was raising us and then we went to Los Angeles my mom started working at NBC um for this amazing casting director named Joel thurm Joel thurm that's right at NBC and she worked there and my dad took care of us took care of the kids and we met Joel by the way let me stop you there just for one second so so Joel therm for The Listener and for for you guys if you guys Sean you may have met him um but maybe he was gone by then but um this was the office where when you were going in to do a network test which for The Listener that's the last step before you get a series as an actor and when you get a series you're you're employed for years and years and it's like winning the lottery and it's a high stakes thing so that last audition that last meeting in that office is Joel therm's office so joaquin's Mom was was on his desk she was sitting at the desk right there where you're sitting waiting just like dying with anxiety right before you're supposed to go in there um and it was like to me it's carved into my memory that office that little that Lobby that section right there was where most of my anxiety started so you're saying joaquin's mom but she was this ray of sunshine and she would every time I'd run into her we'd have a very nice warm hug and smile like you know that yeah she's uh wait so Joaquin so so everybody was everybody was in it everybody was kind of in it or around it yeah yeah and so we would we would go and visit and Joel was always um just so sweet like we would he would just set up set us up in his office and we would watch um that's probably where I remember really being exposed to like TV and and shows TV shows was in Joel's office because we would watch all the reruns he had every tape of everything show wow um and and it was just like the best time going there and yeah and I think we tried to do um I think he actually arranged for us to do a um like some recording like a test to see if we could do like a show as a family but it was like no way like The Partridge Family or something I guess some [ __ ] like that and uh and yes he introduced us to Iris Burton who was like the child actor agent yeah um and the only one that would take all five of us because we met other people it was a package deal and they'd be like I'll take those two I think that she was like I'll take them all wow wow and so and so you're you're interested in acting didn't really come as much from watching TV or watching movies because you guys didn't do a ton of that when you were growing up in the house it was it kind of came from Once you moved to Los Angeles and you started to get this initial exposure to it yeah I mean I think it just was an extension of the games that we played like my dad was a [ __ ] ham yeah like he was do these skits like all the time and again because we didn't have TV we just basically did like plays um so we would just make up these these kind of scenarios um and play them out play dress up and you know [ __ ] like that so I think it just was an extension of that um and then I remember being on set you the energy on a set is like unmatched it's incredible right there's just like 100 people that are all like brilliant in their own specific kind of craft yeah um right so you've taught people that it's like incredible what everyone does right and there's such a I think everyone in the best case scenario one's really excited about what they're doing and they work really hard to kind of create this world and that's a really interesting energy and it's [ __ ] fun as a kid you know it's like it's so exciting to be more upset so there was something that was just really enjoyable about it and then I remember the first scene that um that we did in this TV show and stuff about seven brothers and and one of the characters Peter Horton was the actor and we'd been friends with them you know because we we've been there on set and um and something we're in the scene with him and he's meant to get into uh a fight with um the boyfriend of the woman that played our mother and they get in this like fight and they're rolling around the ground and like to an eight-year-old [ __ ] felt very real right and he was like our friends we were worried about him and I remember being like overcome with this emotion um what was happening and I distinctly remember like like physically buzzing from it and it was such a powerful feeling um because it wasn't real it was safe but like I I like had this feeling coursed through my body um and I was like I want more of that yeah like it was so [ __ ] exciting um and nothing has ever given me that that feeling like you're obviously safe because you're doing multiple takes it's not that in the world's a [ __ ] movie but it can feel so dangerous um you know you feel like so much pressure because you're committing something and it's it's gonna be it's gonna be around forever yeah um and there's something that just feels like really exciting about that to me still that's so interesting hey um Joaquin did you do any any comedy you're always funny in what you do even if it's a drum you'll find the comment because yeah but no like a pure have you ever done like a pure again forgive me have you done like a pure pure comedy I remember I remember seeing you in in to die for and I thought that was Darkly funny Darkly funny yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that was uh I think in the 90s right was that was that a great experience it was a great experience um yeah well I I hadn't uh the last film that the last acting that I'd done was uh when I was I don't know 14 you're 15 in a movie called Parenthood and then I um we moved out of Los Angeles we moved to Florida and um and I I basically given up acting um yeah I didn't think that I was I was going to act um again and then I uh then I my brother really encouraged me to just to start acting again and he was actually going to make a film and he wanted me to play his uh his brother and I think that uh kind of sparked my um renewed interest uh in it and then um yeah today for came up I remember going and auditioning for that I read that script and I I instantly had an idea of of what I thought the character um was and when I auditioned for it and um I was always really fortunate that the directors that I I worked with a lot of them just didn't have um ego and weren't desperate to like micromanage and control and really encouraged me to to bring my ideas to it and to to discover it um I remember it really started with Ron Howard on on Parenthood um and I was surprised that at um how curious he was about my thoughts and feelings about the character um so I just I didn't know that that was allowed and and Gus was um you know the the same thing where I remember him just saying like it doesn't it doesn't matter like things don't have to go right like whatever happens is a part of it and it's okay um so don't worry about like any kind of rules in some ways and there's a thing that you learn as a kid that you're supposed to pride yourself on which is like hitting the mark and finding your light and knowing your lines and I think that all of that stuff is like really dangerous um because it just like leads to things being flat um like when everybody is just like hitting their marks and we know what's going to happen take after take he's just like it's just human nature like inevitably you just follow it fall onto something being like just wrote and I think it lacks like an energy and excitement and we're in this like unique position where you can do multiple takes so why not take advantage of it and you know let it be something different each time within reason um and and those are things that that I I learned from my early experiences like it's it's okay um I think because films are so expensive and there's so many moving parts we like to try to control it as much as possible where do you where do you sit on that because I battle with this as an actor and also as a director sometimes about you know how much you should just sort of pay attention to the natural thing of it or how much you should adhere to the technical uh uh specifics of that particular shot for instance let's say the camera angle is really tight on you and you're see and you're sitting down and in the middle of the line you have to stand up and because you're in a real tight shot the cameraman asks you to stand up kind of slowly don't shoot up because if you shoot up I lose you in the camera again I can't keep up with you and so they ask you to kind of come up with sometimes they call it a grouch show where you kind of come up kind of slow like in a hunch but certain actors my myself sometimes I'll be like well no I gotta shoot up because I'm pissed off like so either widen your shot or just anticipate how much do you like are there times when you're a little bit more Cooperative with that than other times I mean I find myself in that sometimes I just I can't do it as a director sometimes I'll hesitate and even asking an actor to do it but the shot might be might really need it where do you where do you sit with all that stuff the the the combination between the technical and the uh the natural in in what you do I guess it depends I mean every film is is different there's not really one one way of approaching it and there are times where um I think it makes sense that the other night we were we were shooting and camera was behind me and I was moving towards the other actor um and just from years of doing it I I knew to like widen out a little bit to like favor the right side so that it was clear on them and I remember as I was doing it I was so ashamed that you were accommodating yeah I hated myself so much and I was like this means that I'm not in the [ __ ] moment right I'm aware the camera's there and then afterwards they were like can you widen out a little bit with I was like Oh I thought I was already running out as much as I was comfortable with and I was [ __ ] embarrassed yeah and now you asked me doing more it's kind of our job though isn't it I mean it's not part of it though like yeah when you're doing theater right Sean like you don't have to accommodate the other part of the process which is the camera or the lighting or something like when we're doing movies or television that is and I feel bad for pushing back on that as an actor like my performance needs to stay pure and I don't even want to know about it but everybody but at every point of it is like if you're doing if you're doing this show Sean I imagine like you're always thinking about going upstage uh make sure right like yeah all the time you always pay out it's you have to play out and also personally so there's faces staring at you it's distracting right Joaquin like it knocks you out I've got this big monologue as as uh Oscar Levant and then you're doing this moment at the same time you're thinking like [ __ ] can everybody hear me in the back row I'm sure you have those moments right yeah yeah for sure yeah but what kind of distracts you out of the performance though yes well I think the job is to be as as true to the moment as possible and sometimes that's easier than other times for whatever reason um I just sometimes I watch Like basketball players and it's just like going in for them um and other times it seems like they're really working at it and focusing it's just one of those things like sometimes you're in the flow and there's nothing those are the best moments when somebody can be making noise off camera or talking and you you're not distracted by it like you can throw anything at you and you're just in it right because you're just in the in the flow um and then there's other times where it's a bit more difficult there's it feels like it's so artificial everything that's happening and I guess the job in some ways is to try to make it feel as organic as possible um and sometimes it's easier than another time so I think if you're in it and you're in one of those moments it's like yeah I can I can make that adjustment it's not it's not getting in the way and there's other times where I go like no you you have to adjust the camera because I'm not I can't I can't do this um I don't really know why that that happens it's that level as that thing you started talking about about that level of discomfort and embarrassment of like I have to kind of commit to this thing and to really commit to it is kind of embarrassing it's just weird as [ __ ] and you're making that hard for me but yeah yeah that's what I want to talk about because I'll you know what I'm doing in this play is a big swing for the fences it's like this is embarrassing as all all hell like I'm playing somebody that's nothing like me at all yeah and then and then I see you Joaquin play do that over and over again I'm like gosh how in the world do you get past that feeling of him you know humility of leaving yourself so yeah believe yourself like over and over and over again it's just kind of fascinating I wonder if is or the director I would imagine is a is a big big part of it right I mean you've worked with so many incredible directors that so clearly have pardon the term a vision and clear um you know the leadership but uh is that is that a big big part of it for you when you're considering what to do next is it is it is it as much about the director as it is about the part or is it is it more so I mean the the director is it yeah kind of that that simple right because everything ultimately runs let me do them yeah even if they they're choosing the cinematographer and the editor um everyone that they're working with they're ultimately saying yes or no to which take is being used right um especially because you know I I like to to do to approach each take differently sometimes there's a lot of choices that the director has um and so you have to really trust them um that they're going to make the right choices because sometimes I will do things that may not be right for the scene and I'll I'll know that I'll know that this is probably not the right approach for the scene but I'll do it partially just to just to change things up just to put me in this place where I don't really know what's going to happen suddenly just opens it up the possibilities um and there are times you go [ __ ] I hope they don't use that right or if they use a little piece of that with with one that's with a take that's more sort of normal then it makes you look like a [ __ ] actor as you really have to trust the the ingredients that the director is going to use Downstream when he's cooking things together or she yeah or they make you look like a genius yeah right yeah yeah exactly so you use a little piece of something and and um you're like oh that was actually from an earlier part in the scene that wasn't even my reaction for that line right um but that's like that's great editing so yeah the the filmmaker is everything yeah you're so reliant on the taste of a director and Todd Phillips certainly has it in Spades and you're um your your the film that's coming out right now um Ari asked her he seems like a guy is is just in just overflowing with genius uh that trailer is stunning I can't wait to see that film um this is called Bo is afraid Beau is afraid um how was making that because for for for The Listener it's uh if you haven't seen the trailer it's uh correct if I'm wrong here Joaquin it's about a guy going to see his mom and the uh the sort of uh the the fear and sort of Dreamscape or nightmarescape inside of his head as he approaches that event is where this film kind of takes us is that a shitty enough explanation of it yeah sounds good that's just what I gathered from the trailer but it's so so it's very sort of Fantastical and um I don't know I loved sort of Spike Jones stuff and Charlie Kaufman stuff and this seems in that in that world uh and and just another great example of that type of of filmmaking uh I'm so excited to see it did you love doing it I did love doing it um I have just great admiration for Ari and his his approach and um you know very early on I realized like how perceptive and observant he was and sometimes there are some scenes where you think like okay well I I can it's not get away with it like I can I have no choice but I have to act do this right because this would be very difficult to maintain this for like six hours right um so inevitably there's gonna be a wide shot and I'm gonna be acting in this one at the at the end of the day you know and that happens every once in a while and something you really want to avoid and it's horrible but sometimes you're just so [ __ ] tired and you can't do it and again the voice Creeps in just going this is stupid what are you doing this seriously yeah go home yeah um and so you have to fight that voice off but it's very difficult if the filmmaker has that same voice and is also going like hey let's just come on and wrap this up and I knew very early on that Ari was not that filmmaker right right um and so I think that we we were just constantly pushing each other um to to commit to it yeah as as much as possible um and so there was no there was no kind of like oh let's let's cheat in this watch I mean we did one watch out that was like it's so ridiculously wide and it's such a brief moment but I had to like I wanted to like collapse in in the take and um I couldn't just let drop to my knees I just was like I was like this is just ridiculous it's not like too melodramatic or something my knees um and and it was and it was it's stupid looking back on it I was like I could have just dropped my knees and nobody would have known the difference but um I I just I I just felt like I was I was cheating if I if I did that and wow I love how honest you are about that by the way Jason you asked him the question like how was it making and then you like took a moment to really so often people were like yeah it was great though he's all honesty I love it yeah that's [ __ ] great and it reminds me Sean how many late nights have you been like we're not it's getting too late and you just got to drop at your knees I mean It's gotta be um I don't need a reason I don't need the motivation um just remind me walking I was just thinking about years ago I remember when um Amy my ex-wife was still on SNL and you came I Remember You Came um to SNL and you were shooting you were with Casey Affleck and you guys were shooting I'm still here yeah yeah so talk to me a little bit about that man yeah I was actually I was actually thinking about about that to today I don't know why I was I was remembering actually being going to SNL because there was a there was an actor that I ran into in the hallway and I can't remember who it was or I just don't want to say um and I was kind of like doing my my [ __ ] for that movie um and she she's somebody that I worked with and um she's very shocked and concerned and I remember like the look on her face I so desperately wanted to tell her like it's okay she's the thing so we like made this commitment that we weren't going to tell anybody that it wasn't real so listener this this thing that he's talking about uh I'm still here it's this this was a a uh a a documentary um about Joaquin quitting acting and becoming a rap star and wait I want to hear Joaquin tell it well is that write that in a nutshell everybody thought it was real I had no reason to think it wasn't real and and everyone was trying to I said that I was like 35 saying I'm I'm retiring from acting to be around but that's what made it so electric is because everyone wanted to be really sensitive to oh my God what a tragic mistake this young actor is making I can just tell you that at SNL that night that I was there you were there there's like late 2008 I think I think Archie just been born and you were like and I remember you were walking and you guys were shooting stuff and then I forget where the band was and you guys came down onto the onto the floor on on eight at eight age and you guys are shooting it and I remember everybody in the cast was like what's going on what is he what what is happening like nobody knew it was like you really had everybody a train wreck is coming and like yeah but you know it wasn't to fool other people like what what we discovered is like the the moment somebody knew what was going on that it wasn't real I became terrible right I started being like really hammy and like winking at the camera and I think the whole trip was to try to get it to feel as real as possible um and so the only way that it felt real was when other people believed it was happening and it forced me to try to play it as believably as possible um and so that's why we just didn't want to tell anybody because the moment because there were some friends that was like actor friends that I would do some scenes with and they because they knew me so well they figured it out and I would inevitably just really start overdoing it I'm just really kind of Hamming it up and so we just discovered like very early on that when I if somebody thought that it was real it just made me embarrassed and scared um and then I would just kind of be more internal um with it and I think more believable so then just don't tell anyone right yeah and it was it was awkward and uncomfortable and and um and this girl that that was this this actress that was there um she emailed me like a couple days later and she just said like I know what you're doing um and I actually was I was so relieved apparently because I was so embarrassed did you respond did you confirm I did not I did not yeah by the way I tried to I tried to do this thing with this guy Bob uh this writer yesterday on set and we were like It's April Fool's and we're like and I don't do April but I was like let he was like just pretend to fire me in front of the crew and I was like okay and then so we got later in the day and that's her forgotten about it and then he walked out and then we started this argument and it got really awkward and and but I had to commit to it because in the middle of it I'm like [ __ ] and it felt so like sort of status wise I felt shitty like an [ __ ] um yeah and I hated that feeling and I was like once you get the [ __ ] well why do you even bother showing up if you're gonna just pitch me shitty jokes then get the [ __ ] and I started going like that anyway we sort of got to the end of it and I finally said April Fool's after a few minutes and the [ __ ] crew it got really quiet and it wasn't fun no yeah it [ __ ] sucked wait walk how did that all end up I don't remember how that all finished up what was when when did the when did the curtain come down on all of that was it on the release of it or yeah on the release and at that point we'd been shooting for like two years I think or a year and a half or something um and I was um I had been so looking forward to this moment of saying like it wasn't real yeah because it had just been so uncomfortable and I I just had avoided so many friends because I just didn't know how to kind of like keep it through years and then so I can't remember how we kind of you know released it and said oh it wasn't real nobody believed us they suddenly thought like oh yeah of course now after you [ __ ] your career you're trying to say that this is like this Spoonful they thought you like you're trying to save your and come back oh no no way and um so I was like oh [ __ ] can't can't win [Laughter] but then you showed them uh what was up what you came back with the master right wasn't that wasn't that what followed well that was yeah I mean the thing is is that as a as a product of this of this of I'm still here um I think at that point a lot of people that maybe would consider hiring me were like even if it's not real you have to be kind of [ __ ] nuts to do this so it's probably probably not something you want to work with anyways and I remember my my options the PTA was like bring it on yeah my the the options at the time were just left a lot to be desired in terms of work and I remember really at one point just really being um desperate and feeling like well I actually really [ __ ] myself and um I can't I can't get a get a job um and I was really considering doing this this movie that was a terrible movie I knew it was terrible but I was like I just have to get back and show people that this wasn't [ __ ] real and I almost did it and um actually my my my agent um Boomer who was actually he was the assistant of my original agent Patrick Weitzel and he started working with me I at first I was like oh this [ __ ] bait and switch like I'm working with your assistant yeah and then remember talking Boomer and I was saying look man um I'm just I'm lost I'm desperate it's the first time in my life like I don't feel like I know what what to do yeah and I'm asking for advice um I've never done that you know I always really have a strong sense like what I want to do and he was like do you have to do this movie I said what do you mean because does it matter to you and I was like no he goes well then why are you doing it and I I really needed that at that moment like I I just I felt so [ __ ] lost and confused um and it was really it's a really important moment for me and so I I said no to the movie and um and then a a couple months later Amanda Demi yeah uh reached out to me and she said hey Paul's trying to get in touch with you no way and uh she sent the script over I remember looking you know through the script and there was Freddie and master and I was like halfway through and I was like there's no way he's calling me for one of those parts you know so I I called him I said what what character am I supposed to read Because I figured it was like something that pops up you know for a couple scenes and he was like Freddy um and I didn't even finish the script and I had to prevent myself from saying like yes right there this is halfway through and I was like just [ __ ] yeah dude I couldn't believe that movie he wanted me for for that um so cool well that's that's me um before we let you go I want to ask you just real quickly about Napoleon um and it's one of the movies I'm looking most forward to seeing coming up um it seems like that was a really robust shoot I mean period and Ridley Scott and uh that subject matter I mean was it as epic as it sounds like uh what can you tell us about that if anything yeah it was it was a [ __ ] massive production the amazing thing about Ridley is he he's like overseeing this massive machine at just like hundreds of extras eight cameras you know these huge locations and he can just pivot like like that like he could arrive on on set and make a discovery in the moment and feel like the scene is maybe leading in like a new Direction and she's she's just fine with like he'll adjust you adjust the camera he will adjust to the performance like if there's something that feels wow um honest and real and like a worthwhile exploration of steamer ship around right so um impressive yeah to me because yeah I mean I don't know how much we were spending a day but it was it was it was a lot um and I got I had a great experience with him you know all those years ago on Gladiator and so um I just was always always wanted to to work with him again that's so cool I you know I know we're going to let you go because you're going to get back but you know hearing you talk I've never met you I'm I know you probably hate this but I'm a huge fan of yours and and and you you are an inspiration to me and tons of other actors there's so much respect for you I do I I know you hate that because it feels false but it's not um but you're married you have a baby boy you have Purpose with animal rights activism you have a great career you have all this stuff going on in your life are you able to um sit back and just kind of absorb all that or do you have a defense mechanism where you're just like no I gotta I just I know everything's great I just got to keep going I just got to keep going and challenge myself the next thing or can you really sit back and and and absorb all the great things that have happened to you um as you get older It all becomes easier I I'm fully cognizant of what a Charmed Life I have um it has exceeded my expectations or my greatest dreams I'm so [ __ ] grateful for uh what I have the family and friends that I have and the opportunity for for work um I never imagined it would be like this and it has been so fulfilling um so I really do uh I really do appreciate it and and value um the opportunity that that I've had yeah but I still want more experiences yeah um yeah I just love making films I love collaborating with with people you know it's it's like so exciting to talk about makeup and and hair and like you're sitting around with all these like people that are really good at what they do yeah and you get to kind of like create something together yeah um and it's it's just an incredible opportunity I love that you said that because you you said it you said it before too and you're talking about all the people on set and I don't think people appreciate enough and I love that you said it is like and I always think about like everybody on set no matter what their job is everybody's a filmmaker everybody is part of the process in that way and I don't and and too often people get we you see people who sort of I don't know spend the time they don't spend the time of the energy and they sort of disregard those people like [ __ ] every single person here is making this film together there's nobody there that that doesn't have to be there yeah right yeah it's a it's something a lot of people don't realize yeah um well walk your incredible at it um please keep going um we'll take twice as much um but I know you got you got a kid to raise and uh and Rooney to hang out with she's awesome too please say hi to her thank her you know she found us our dog we've got a brand new dog she found us our dog our dog Gary he's a real cutie um we love you and thank you and say hi to Todd and Larry and um have a great day at work and I hope this has been okay I feel like it was no dude it's been awesome you've been very very before you go how do you get into Joker no yeah uh see we ended up talking about the process and nobody got hurt no but in a good way thank you man thank you for taking the time especially thank you very nice of you to do this buddy especially very nice oh thank thank you guys honestly this is um it was um painless painless um uh well when you're done hurry home uh and we'll uh we'll talk some more okay great thank you all so much bye man amazing now that's uh that's a that's an artist this is an actor this is an artist and did you know him Jason for a long time yes no we we don't we don't we don't spend every day with one another uh by any stretch uh but we've known each other for a long time we've got some very close mutual friends um and uh you know he's uh he's a guy I would love to talk further with deeply with uh you know at length with but as you can tell he doesn't he doesn't really enjoy talking about the stuff that we're all fascinated with about him you know and that's probably why he's so goddamn good at what he does is because yeah maybe he just doesn't care to look at you know how the how the magic trick is done he just it's something he's great at it's something that he uh I I enjoy that's what I was getting at and that you know I put and he was like no no you know I forgive those people for you know talking about the process but I meant more about the people who go out of their way they're like look at my process right it's very difficult what I do that's what I meant like when they offer it first yeah yeah when they offer it first and they're like my whole thing my whole identity is wrapped around how I do it and I want everybody to know and to think that and be impressed by my process which he is like for the couldn't be further removed from that he's like man I don't want to tell you and you're also one of those actors I love watching and trying to understand what that character must be thinking like he's a very internal actor and you kind of if I knew what he was thinking and I knew how he was doing it or if I knew that much about him if he did a bunch of press and also it'd be hard for me to buy him being somebody else so I kind of like that he's missing well you want to do like like I was thinking the last thing I saw him and was was Joker and you watch him um in that performance amazing yeah incredible and and you know uh millions of people love it some people don't you whatever you think that when you watch him he's so compelling Jason like you say because you're like what is he he's so inhabiting it in those moments and he has these moments where he and you're watching you're thinking like exactly that what is he thinking how is he where is he now where it says he's more into the work than all the other stuff but he's also I don't know I mean if if it sounds so [ __ ] he he manages to do something that I love when I watch actors is uh their ability to communicate vulnerability and and and and humanness and flaws and humanity and elements of being broken because we're all broken we're all vulnerable but we all learn these different you know skins of of trying to like hide it and he is so courageous uh just as a person who's talking about making a fool out of himself of being kind of warts and all like look at all my flaws and he finds those in every character because that that's all part of it I suppose it's just being not fully put together you know with his characters he's only the he's only the second but he is only the second guest we've had who is uh who is uh killing sigs during the interview oh yeah who is it Sean Penn was the other one right yeah yeah count six you haven't smoked yet during an interview have you no I did when I was in London remember I was recording from London I did a couple times so that was what was that called if you smoke a cigarette over there um oh Crush not crushing oh it's crushing don't say it don't say it we'll have to lift it we know what you're going to say Jesus don't say it I don't know what it's Sean you're trying to bait him into a cancellation are you looking to recast you're looking for a new third no you can Crush some [ __ ] over here which oh she's a shot for [ __ ] sake what is wrong with you what would the term be what would the term be though speaking of which if you liked men and you liked women yeah smart [Music] [Applause] [Music] less is 100 organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett barbaco Michael Grant Terry and Rob I'm jarf smart March less

Channel: SmartLess

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Keywords: wondery, wondery podcast, wondery podcasts, wondery smartless, smartless, smartless podcast, wondery smartless podcast, smartless full podcast episode, smartless tour, smartless live, smartless post cast, smartless guests, jason bateman podcast, will arnett podcast, sean hayes podcast, Joaquin Phoenix interview, Joaquin Phoenix podcast, smartless Joaquin Phoenix, smartless podcast Joaquin Phoenix, Joaquin Phoenix

Id: 5N8DK7khxgE

Length: 58min 35sec (3515 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 24 2023