[ Dramatic music ] >> Hi,
welcome to Digging
for Truth presented by Associates
for Biblical Research. I'm your host, Henry Smith. Today I have the pleasure
of having Bryan Windle with us to walk through the top
10 historical references to Jesus outside of the Bible. [ Dramatic music ] Well, Bryan,
welcome back to the show. It's great to see you again,
my friend. >> Hey, it's great to be back.
Thanks so much for having me. >> Okay,
so we're going to be talking
about evidences for Jesus outside the Bible. So strictly speaking,
not the New Testament. Tell us about why we're going to take that
sort of angle to the evidence, looking at the evidence, and hop right into number 10
when you are ready. >> All right,
so the reason I did
this particular top 10 list is because I received some
criticism from my top 10 list of discoveries related to Jesus and the criticism
that I had from some people was, "Well, none
of this proves Jesus existed." So leaving aside the idea
that proof is subjective and really is not the purpose
of archaeology, these people just misunderstood
my intent. With that top 10 list, I was just demonstrating
discoveries that illuminated the life of
Jesus or elements of the gospel. They were not meant
to prove he existed. That said,
I think there is great
historical evidence that he did exist. Now, so for this list, I decided to do the top
10 historical references for Jesus outside of the Bible. Now, I want to be clear
that I believe the New Testament Gospels are
the most reliable documents we have for information
about Jesus. They certainly are the earliest. They were written
by eyewitnesses or people who heard directly
from eyewitnesses, and so I think they're
the most important. But for this list, I'm only going to look at
extra-biblical references, and I have two criteria
that I use. The first was that the sources
must be from the first or second century and not later. So sometimes people
will use the Talmud from the fifth
to eighth century, fifth, sixth, seventh century, and I don't think that adds
a lot to the discussion, so we're going to stick
with writings from the first
and second century. And secondly, they have
to be references to Jesus, not references to Christians,
and so those were my criteria. And so based on that, my number 10 part on the list
were early Christian writers. This is something a lot
of people overlook when they're looking at extra-biblical
references to Jesus. See, it's difficult
to explain the explosive growth of Christianity in the first
100 years or so of Christ's life if he didn't exist,
as some Christ-mythers suggest. And so what we have
over that first 100, 150 years are a whole bunch
of Christian writers, some of whom heard directly
from the people who had been with Jesus,
and this is really important. So we have Clement, at Corinth, and in it he speaks
of the teachings of Jesus, Jesus's death,
his resurrection from the dead. We have Ignatius of Antioch who wrote a letter
to the Smyrnaians in which he claims
Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate and
Herod the Tetrarch and that he, quote, suffered all these things
for us, and he suffered them really
and not in appearance only, even as he truly rose again. Polycarp wrote a letter
to the Philippians that affirmed Jesus lived
and died, and Polycarp was one
of the people who was said to have actually learned
from the apostles directly. Justin Martyr argued
Jesus was a teacher, that he was crucified,
that he rose again. Papias wrote that he learned
about the teachings of Jesus from those who had heard him
in purpose-- in person. And Quadratus was
an early Christian apologist. A lot of people maybe
don't know him. He wrote a letter to the Emperor
Hadrian and he said this, "But the works of
our Savior were always present, for they were genuine, those that were healed and those that were raised
from the dead who were seen, not only when they were healed
and when they were raised, but also always present, and not merely
while the Savior was on earth, but also after his death, they were alive
for quite a while so that some of them lived even to our day." And so we have these early
Christian writers, so of whom heard directly from
the eyewitnesses themselves, and they're an important
extra-biblical testimony to the historicity of Jesus. >> Yeah, it's really good,
Bryan. You know,
it just seems
historically incoherent that all of these early Christian sources
could even exist and be willing to commit
their lives to following Jesus [chuckles] if somehow
very shortly before that he never existed. Just doesn't-- doesn't make really much sense
just from a historical analysis
perspective, which is what your point is. Okay, but we can't stay there. We got to move to number nine,
Bryan, so let's do that. >> Sure.
So all of the rest
of the historical references to Jesus are going to be
from non-Christian writers. So even though I started
with the Christian writers and they give a basic outline
of all of the elements of Jesus's life, like his birth, his teachings,
the miracles he did, and his death
and his resurrection at a point in history, what we're going to
see is that the same elements, the same facts are affirmed
by non-Christian writers. And number nine is Phlegon, who-- Phlegon
of Tralles wrote this book of history around the middle
of the second century, circa about AD 140,
and so his work is not-- is no longer in existence, but it was quoted
by other writers, and Origen was one of them. He cites several passages. He quotes directly that refer
to Jesus, and he says this, "Now, Phlegon, in his 13th
or 14th book, I think, of his Chronicles,
not only ascribed to Jesus
a knowledge of future events, but also testified of-- that the result corresponded
to his predictions." He wrote about "the eclipse at the time
of Tiberius Caesar in whose reign Jesus appears
to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes
that took place." He writes about the testimony
of Phlegon, that-- who relates the events that took
place when our Savior suffered. He goes on to say,
and he quotes directly here, "Jesus while alive was
of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death and exhibited the marks
of his punishment and showed his hands
had been pierced by nails." So according to this
ancient historian Phlegon, who was writing circa 140, Jesus accurately predicted
events of the future. He was crucified in the days
of Tiberius Caesar. He was believed
to have risen again, showing his hands
that had been pierced. That's a pretty impressive list
of facts from an ancient historian. >> It certainly is. Okay, now you got another one
that is from the middle
of the first century, Bryan. Who is it,
and tell us about him. >> Yeah,
this is a really important one. This is-- this is Thallus, and Thallus was
a non-Christian writer who refers to Jesus circa 55, so this is before some of the New Testament
documents were even written, and while Thallus's work
was lost, he was quoted by Julius
Africanus who was also quoted. That work was then re-quoted by
a Byzantine historian as well, and Julius Africanus, while discussing the darkness that accompanied the crucifixion
of Jesus, writes, "On the whole, the-- on the whole world there
pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent
by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown
down. This darkness Thallus, in his third book
of his histories, calls, as appears to me without reason,
an eclipse of the sun." Now, at first glance, Jesus isn't mentioned
in this particular quotation. However, scholars have argued
that it's likely, almost certain Thallus
was referring to Jesus in the original work. Robert Van Voorst explains, "Thallus could have mentioned
the eclipse with no reference to Jesus, but it's more likely
that Julius, who had access to the context
of this quotation in Thallus, and who,
to judge from other fragments, was generally careful user
of his source, was correct in reading it
as a hostile reference to Jesus's death." And so this is an important
reference to Jesus's death and the-- and the darkness that happened and the earthquake
at the time of his death that is recorded
in the gospels as well. >> All right, great job, Bryan.
Thank you for that. We got seven more to go, but we have to go to a break, and we'll be right back
after this message. >> In a culture of intense
Bible-denying skepticism, >> Welcome back to Digging
for Truth. I'm Henry Smith, your host.
I'm here with Bryan Windle. We're counting down
the top 10 historical references to Jesus outside the Bible. Okay, Bryan, number seven. >> Number seven is Celsus. He was a second century
Greek philosopher who wrote a treatise
attacking Christianity, and then some 75 years later, Origen wrote a rebuttal called
"Against Celsus," and he summarizes
Celsus's arguments, noting that this Greek
philosopher had used this literary device imagining
a Jew talking to Jesus. And so Origen writes, he says, "He represents him disputing
with Jesus and confuting him, as he thinks, on many points. In his first place, he accused him of having
invented his birth from a virgin and upbraids him as being,
quote, born in a certain Jewish village
of a poor woman of the country
who gained her substantial-- her substance--
subsistence by spinning, who was turned out of doors
by her husband, a carpenter by trade, because he was convinced--
convinced of her adultery," and talks about Jesus
then going to Egypt and having acquired
some miraculous powers and using these miraculous
powers to proclaim he was God, and these are the-- these are
the arguments that this Jewish-- imaginary Jewish person is using
in this work by Celsus. And so-- so it's interesting
because we see, even in Celsus's day,
about 175 AD, the belief that Jesus was born
of a virgin, that he was known
to perform miracles, and that he claimed
to be divine, and so those are
very important things that are being attested
in this work. >> Yeah,
and you see even in a couple of confrontations
with the Pharisees where there's the implication
about the dubious nature of Jesus's birth circumstances,
right? Little digs from the Pharisees
that you see, so you see
that here playing itself out in this apologetic discourse. Good stuff, Bryan. Okay, we're going to go
to number six now. Lucian of Samosata,
tell us about this guy. >> Yeah, Lucian's
a famous Greek satirist, and he refers to Jesus
in his work, "The Death of Peregrine," which
was written sometime about 8165, and he's mocking Christians
in this. He said,
"The Christians, you know,
worship a man to this day, the distinguished personage
who is-- who introduced their novel rites
and was crucified on that account." And so you have here a number
of historical facts. Lucian is acknowledging Jesus
was the founder of a religion, that he was crucified, that his followers converted, considered themselves
spiritual brothers and sisters. If you keep reading the quote,
you find that out, and that they worshipped
this man, he says, as God, and those are important
things that we see from, again, what we would consider
to be a hostile witness. >> Yeah, hostile witnesses are
our friend, aren't they, Bryan? Because there's no--
they have no skin in the game to authenticate the existence
of Jesus. They're responding to the
realities on the ground here, in this case in the middle
of the second century. Okay, we're going to crack
the top five now, Bryan. What is number five, or who is
number five, I should say. >> Yeah, so number five,
we go back to the first century. Sometime around 73 AD, a man named Mara Bar Serapion
was taken captive by the Romans from his city. They destroyed his city,
and from prison, he wrote a letter back to Syria, to his son, encouraging him
to pursue wisdom, and he writes this, "What else can we say when
the wise are forcibly dragged off by tyrants, their
wisdom is captured by insults, and their minds are oppressed
without defense? What advantage did the Athenians
gain by murdering Socrates, for they were repaid
with famine and pestilence? Or the people of Samos
by the burning of Pythagoras because their country
was completely covered in sand in just one hour? Or the Jews by killing
their wise king because their kingdom was
taken away at that very time? God justly repaid the wisdom
of these three men. The Athenians died of famine, the Samians were completely
overwhelmed by the sea, and the Jews, desolate and
driven from their own kingdom, are scattered
through every nation. Socrates is not dead
because of Plato, neither Pythagoras
because of the statue of Juno, nor is the wise king because of
the new laws he laid down." And so while Jesus's name isn't
specifically used, it's clear that that's who's being
referred to in this passage. He's the wise king
that the Jews killed. Remember, Jesus, the title "King of the Jews"
was used by Pilate for Jesus. It was used by Roman soldiers. Even some of the Jews themselves
used that very phrase, and so seems that that was
what Jesus was known by. J. Warner Wallace summarizes the
significance of this reference. He says,
"From this account, we can add
to our understanding of Jesus. He was a wise and influential
man who died for his belief. The Jewish leadership was
somehow responsible for Jesus's death, and Jesus's followers
adopted his belief and lived their lives
accordingly." That's a great summary from,
again, a non-Christian hostile witness. >> Yeah, fits like a glove. I just thought, too, of
the new laws that he laid down. Probably one of the most radical
is "forgive your enemies," which would have been
radically antithetical to anything that people
believed in the ancient Near Eastern world,
that's for sure. Okay, but we got to move
to number four here. You say "Plenny" [phonetic],
I say "Pliney" [phonetic]. Tell us about the next guy
on our list. >> Yeah, so Pliny the Younger,
writing about AD 112. He was the Roman governor
of Bithynia, and he wrote a letter to the
Emperor Trajan asking for advice on how to deal with the
Christians he was prosecuting, and in Letter 96, he
describes the process he takes, and he describes the Christians'
testimony to him, and he writes, "They declared that the sum
of their guilt or their error amounted
only to this, that on a stated day, they had been accustomed
to meet before daybreak to recite a hymn
among themselves to Christ, as though he were a God, and that so far
from binding themselves by oath to commit any crime, their
oath was to abstain from theft, robbery, adultery,
and breach of faith, and not to deny trust money
placed in their keeping when called upon to deliver it." And so Pliny's letter reveals
that Jesus was a-- Christ was a real figure, a historical figure who the Roman magistrates
were attempting, and if you read the whole quote, they're trying to get
the Christians to curse Jesus so they'll only worship
the Roman gods. And it's interesting to note
that Trajan responds by saying, "You're not to hunt
out the Christians, but if they will
not curse Christ, then-- and they're going to continue
to worship him as a God, then you need to persecute them
at that-- prosecute them at that time." >> Yeah,
I think the amazing thing that are found
in their descriptions, like they met
on a certain day of the week, they worshipped him as God,
like, you know,
those things are just-- speak of such authenticity,
Bryan, you know. That's one of the things
that stands out, aside from the explicit mentions
of Jesus or indirect mentions, so it's really interesting. But we got to go to a break,
Bryan, because we got to crack
the top three next, and we'll be right back. >> Hi, welcome back
to Digging for Truth. We're surveying the top 10
historical references to Jesus that are found outside
of Holy Scripture. Bryan Windle is here
to count down. Okay, Bryan,
we are now in the top three, you know, rate-- rate--
lists, rating lists, it's always a challenge. You do such a great job
with this, but let's go. What's number three? >> All right,
into the three,
we're into the really, really important ones now. Number three is Suetonius. Suetonius was a Roman historian, and his most famous work,
The Lives of the Caesars, recounts a brief history
of the first 12 Caesars from Julius Caesar to Domitian, and in his chapter on the life
of Claudius, he writes this, "Since the Jews constantly made
disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus," which we believe is a reference
to Christ, "he expelled them from Rome." Now, this is explained
in the Book of Acts. We see the same thing
in the Book of Acts, where noted, that Claudius expelled the Jews
from Rome because of the disturbance
with the Christians, and so there is
near-unanimous consensus among scholars
of all religious persuasions, Christians or non-Christian, that "Chrestus" is likely
a phonetic misspelling of the Latin "Christus,"
and it's Jesus Christ. The name "Chrestus" or
"Chrestos," interestingly, was a term
even Christians were known to have used,
and it's a term we actually see
in a couple of early church fathers. And so, so consistently pointing
that this is-- that this is Jesus, and it demonstrates that within
100 years of the life of Jesus, he was known to existed, that he was this popular and controversial figure
that was causing disturbances during the reign of Claudius to the point where Claudius
had to expel the Jews from Rome. >> Yeah, good. You know, I just--
it just occurred to me, this issue
that we're addressing, the historicity of Jesus, in scholarship this is
not an issue. This is an issue on the internet
and in Facebook and YouTube, which is one of the reasons
why we're addressing it, because it's such a popular idea
amongst atheists. So, but we need to move now
to number two. One of our favorite historians
is Flavius Josephus. He had something to say
about Jesus, and if so, what is it, Bryan? >> Yeah, and this is a bit
of a controversial passage. Well, one of them is. Josephus actually mentions
Jesus twice in his work "The Antiquities of the Jews," and writing at the end
of the first century, he is describing--
describes Jesus in particular. Now, there is
a controversial passage that-- it's called the "Testimonium
Flavianum," and it-- almost all scholars,
Christians and non-Christians, believe that it was-- it was edited
by a later Christian scribe to make Jesus look really good, but there was a copy found that
did not have those edits in it, probably the-- what was
originally written by Josephus. It was discovered in 1970. It's an Arabic version, and it
is the kind of thing that a Jew, like Josephus,
might write about Jesus. It says this,
"At that time, there was
a wise man who was called Jesus. His conduct was good
and he was known to be virtuous, and many people from
among the Jews and other nations became
his disciples. Pilate condemned him
to be crucified and to die, but those who had become
his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported
that he had appeared to them three days
after his crucifixion and that he was alive
accordingly. He was perhaps the Messiah
concerning whom the prophets have
recounted wonders." Historian Paul Maier notes, "Clearly this version
of the passage is expressed in a manner appropriate
to a non-Christian Jew and it corresponds
almost precisely to previous scholarly
projections of what Josephus actually wrote,
and so this is important, but Josephus actually
referred to Jesus a second time when he talks about the death
of James, quote, the brother of Jesus, who was called 'Christ,'
and so from these references, we know that Josephus
accepted the existence of Jesus historically,
who was called 'Christ.' His conduct was good.
He was crucified by Pilate. Many people came as disciples and reported that he was alive
after his death." >> Yeah, yeah,
powerful evidence, not only from everything
you laid out, but the fact that he's only two
decades after the destruction of the temple
and all the way in Rome, okay, which we know
the Roman church had been established already and
Paul had written a letter there, but clearly this fits
in the context of what's taking place already
in the first century, Bryan. Well--
>> Yup. >> Okay, it's time for the number
one discovery related to Jesus outside of the Bible,
and drumroll, if you will, Bryan [laughs]. >> Here we go.
All right, it's Tacitus. Tacitus was a Roman historian. He left a couple of works
for us, histories and annals, and in his annals, he writes
about the suspicions that Nero, the emperor, was responsible
for the Great Fire of Rome and that he tried
to pass the blame on Christians. And he wrote this, "Consequently,
to get rid of this report," that he was the one
who started the fire, "Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most
exquisite tortures on a class hated
for their abominations called 'Christians' by the populace. Christus, from whom
the name had its origins, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius
at the hands of one of our procurators,
Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous
superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only
in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part
of the world find their center and become popular." Now, this passage is
of great importance historically for several reasons. First of all, there's no
question as to its authenticity. This is what Tacitus wrote. Secondly, scholars view Tacitus
as an independent source not related in any way
to the New Testament Gospels. And thirdly,
it just affirms more details, Jesus being called "Christus,"
his historicity, his death under Pontius Pilate,
and interestingly, it describes
a mischievous superstition [Henry laughs]
that broke out, and I believe that he's
referring to the belief that the early Jews said
that Jesus rose from the dead. >> Yes.
>> That that was
the mischievous superstition. >> Yeah, yeah, again,
another hostile witness. You mentioned about Josephus. The Christian interpolation
exalts Jesus. These are all
negative connotations, really. So, you know, again, just
extraordinary piece of evidence, and the totality
of it is awesome. Well, Bryan, [laughs] I hate to do this
to you. You only got about 30 seconds to give us a condensed summary
of the importance of all this. Go ahead. here's what we would know
historically about Jesus from extra-biblical
historical sources. He was reported to have
been born of a poor virgin, that his father was a carpenter. He was a teacher. His disciples passed
on his teaching to others. He prophesied.
He performed miracles. He was known for his wisdom
and virtuous life. He claimed to be God. He was crucified under
Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius Caesar. Earthquakes and darkness
follow-- accompanied his death. His followers report
he had risen from the dead, appeared to them, and showed
them his wounds in his hands. His followers worshipped him
as God, and belief in Jesus caused great
disturbances with the Jews, such that Claudius had
to evict the Jews from Rome. Listen, that is a great summary
of Jesus's life that affirms what we have
in the New Testament Gospels, and I believe the historicity of
Jesus is not in question at all. It is without a doubt
established historically. >> Well, amen to all of that,
Bryan. That might be the fastest
I've ever heard you talk. You should do an auctioneer,
my friend [Bryan laughs].
That was great. We hope the audience is
satisfied by it. I appreciate everything you do,
Bryan. We love you, man. >> Hey, thanks so much, Henry.
Great to be with you again. >> Well, thank you for joining
us for Digging for Truth. The New Testament is adequate
in its witness about Jesus, but we can also look to
these outside historical sources that confirm what the New
Testament already tells us, and we hope that you're edified
and lifted up by these facts of history and the work that Jesus has done
to forgive sinners. Thank you for watching Digging
for Truth. [ Dramatic music ]
