>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington D.C. >> Ron Charles: Our guest
this afternoon is Jesmyn Ward. Thank you so much for
being here today. >> Jesmyn Ward: Thank
you all for having me. [ Applause ] >> Ron Charles: Like many
of you I first became aware of Jesmyn Ward's work when
I read her remarkable novel "Salvage the Bones". Beginning of the days before
Hurricane Katrina hit, Salvage the Bones tells
the unforgettable story of a 14 year old girl named Ash,
the only daughter of four siblings in a poor Mississippi
home and that book went on to win the National
Book Award in 2011. Congratulations. [ Applause ] And now Jesmyn Ward is back with
a new novel "Sing, Unburied, Sing" and once again, we're
traveling with a poor, Black family in Mississippi. But this is a more complex story
I think, with several narrators and a plot that moves
back and forth in time in between the living and the dead. The story is built around a car trip
that a woman takes with her children to pick up her husband who has
just been released from prison. To begin, even though I've read
dozens, maybe hundreds of stories in the news about the tragedy that - Salvage the Bones is still
the way I think about Katrina. And it's a novel I keep
coming back to as I read about what's happening
now in Houston. Is your family safe? >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes
my family is safe. I mean we got some fairly heavy
rains from like the outer bands of the hurricane, but we're okay. Yeah, we're okay. >> Ron Charles: What
goes through your mind as you see this thing
repeated again? >> Jesmyn Ward: I didn't think that it would affect me
as strongly as it did. I-these days I tend to follow
- I didn't get most of my notes from Twitter because I think
it - I've said this before, I think it makes it - it's easier
to bear the news when you feel like you're processing
with the community. That's what I feel like when
I'm on Twitter reading the news. So anyhow as I'm like reading
the news, I mean reading Twitter and seeing tweets from
people who are - >> Ron Charles: Trapped. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yeah trapped, who
are sending out - who are tweeting for help and asking for people
to send rescues to them. I thought, I just - I kept
retweeting those tweets and liking them and trying
to like amplify their voices. But I didn't realize that
it would be that affecting that it would feel that heavy. I mean it was you know,
it almost felt like it was happening again, right? That I was back and here Katrina
was bearing down on all of us. And you know and wreaking such
destruction and so it was difficult and I'm surprised that it was that
difficult, but it was difficult. And I thought "Well
maybe I should you know, maybe I should talk about this? Maybe I should actually write some
original tweets" and I couldn't. Like I was speechless
with horror I think. And also sorrow, you know because
here people are suffering yet again. >> Ron Charles: You might have heard
the people that I heard on the radio who had moved after Katrina and now
are going through the same thing with this new storm, unbelievable. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes
and it has to feel like no time has passed
at all for them. I know you know, I'm living
back on the Gulf Coast. I work in New Orleans and for
us it's been what, 12-13 years and it feels like it
was just yesterday. So for them as they're living
through this new natural disaster, I mean I can't imagine
how that feels. >> Ron Charles: It's
incredible, incredible. Your new novel is about
a car trip on some level, it's to and from a state prison. But it's a journey in a
much larger sense too. I want you to talk about how you
conceived of that story, the journey and the car trip as a
vehicle so to speak. >> Jesmyn Ward: So I originally I
thought this will just be you know, the car - the trip was like
my excuse to get this family on the road, to make
them go somewhere. >> Ron Charles: To
keep them contained. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yeah to keep
them contained and I thought, okay just be a road trip and
they'll go and they'll pick the dad, you know Michael, pick him up
and then they'll come back home. And then I began reading about
the history of Parchman Prison and reading about the history of
- more about Mississippi history. Because I knew absolutely
nothing about Parchman Prison. And as I was reading
more about the history of Parchman Prison I realized that
this book wasn't just going to be about a road trip, and it couldn't. And that in some respects even
as they are driving north, sort of into what has I think what
people understand as the heart of Mississippi, I felt like
at the same time they're doing that they also in some
ways journeying backwards into the past, right? And to really confront the history
of - the history of - and the legacy of slavery, of Jim Crow,
of mass incarceration. Like they're confronting
all these things as they're moving - as
they're on that road. >> Ron Charles: Because the
novel is dispersed with memories of the grandfather's
time in that same prison. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. >> Ron Charles: When it
was considerably worse. But just the 1940's, as you describe
it, it sounds more like the 1840's. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. >> Ron Charles: You don't say
it explicitly but it does sound like a system of slavery. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. >> Ron Charles: That
was intentional. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes
that was intentional. >> Ron Charles: And
historically accurate. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes, I mean
everything that I learned about Parchman seemed to indicate
- I mean the most important book to me during the process
of writing this book, is a book called "Worse in Slavery". And it is about Parchman
Prison and I think that the author is making
the argument that you know, that system was worse than slavery. I mean it's basically once
people were sent there, I mean they were tortured,
they were worked to death. >> Ron Charles: They
were worked to death. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. So - >> Ron Charles: And
people profited off this. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. >> Ron Charles: The
state or someone. >> Jesmyn Ward: They would rent
the - they would rent the inmates at one time, in the very
beginning I think of the history of Parchman Prison they'd
actually rent out the inmates to you know these titans of industry
in Mississippi and they would do - >> Ron Charles: Like
they were farm animals. >> Jesmyn Ward: They would do
jobs you know for these titans. But then as I guess the - later on
I guess in the 40's, I guess that's when they decided to make Parchman
Prison itself like a working farm, or plantation and that's
what it was. >> Ron Charles: It's just horrific. I had no idea about this either. I knew conditions were bad but
that they were worked like this in a way that's so obviously
reproduced the conditions of 100 years earlier. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes, with Trusty
shoes, watching them with guns, making sure they don't run. >> Ron Charles: The dogs - >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes the dogs,
hunting them if they did run. >> Ron Charles: And killing them. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes
and killing them. If you killed someone
who ran and you know because these were inmates guarding
other inmates with guns, right? So if one of the inmates with a
gun killed someone who was trying to escape they were able to go
free, like that was their reward. >> Ron Charles: There was
no investigation, no trial. >> Jesmyn Ward: No. >> Ron Charles: Now
the father is in - this takes place in the current day. The father is in the prison,
is better but you suggest that it's still the legacy of that. We still have a few
million people in prison. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. Has anyone seen Thirteenth,
the documentary? I mean - it's a wonderful
documentary also you know, it's amazing and also sad and
presents some very harsh truths. But in part like that
documentary is about the - is about mass incarceration. About the fact that we're like I
think a couple of different people in that documentary said we're the
jailingest nation on earth, right? >> Ron Charles: The
jailingest nation. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yeah I mean we
- and I wish I had a better head for numbers because some of the
statistics that they put forth in Thirteenth were just
amazing to me and blew my mind. But I guess the population of
Americans who are in prison today. Like we have more people in
prison in the United States than the entire world has,
like all the other countries in the world have in prison, right? We have more than that. >> Ron Charles: It affects
everything of course. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. >> Ron Charles: It effects voting. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes you can't vote. >> Ron Charles: They
can never vote again. Not just when they're in
prison, but never again. They're permanently disenfranchised. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yep. >> Ron Charles: Let's
talk about these ghosts because your novel play with time. It does move back and
forth as the family travels in the car the story is
dispersed with older stories that the grandfather has
been telling the boy. And there are ghosts, not
as metaphors in the novel, but as ghosts which people are
interacting with and seeing. That must have been a very conscious
decision that you thought about, can I get away with ghosts? Is this too gothic? But when we think about
ghosts, we think about slavery, you come up against Tony
Morrison's classic Beloved. How did you negotiate that
sort of anxiety of influence? >> Jesmyn Ward: It might
be foolish but the only way that I can write new work,
the only way that I can sort of complete a successful
rough draft is if I forget about everything else, right? And of course I was aware of
Beloved and of Tony Morrison and feeling a certain
amount of stress because you know Beloved
is a masterpiece. >> Yes. >> Right? Write about ghosts,
you know that you know, Black ghosts from these horrible
moments in history without thinking about Tony Morrison's Beloved. But yeah, I did it by
not thinking about it because that's the only way I can
- it's the only way I can write. I just had to forget - I just had
to put all of that out of my head and just say "Okay you need
to write the best story that you possibly can", right? Write about JoJo, about Leoni
and about Ritchie and Pop, right? Ritchie is one of the
ghosts in the book. >> Ron Charles: What do
the ghosts represent? Not to reduce these
characters to representations, but why use ghosts
instead of memories? >> Jesmyn Ward: I am - one of the -
one of the deciding factors for me when I was thinking about whether or
not Given was a ghost, and whether or not you know Ritchie would
come into the present moment, was the fact that young boys like
Ritchie actually existed, right? And - >> Ron Charles: In prison? >> Jesmyn Ward: In prison - >> Ron Charles: He's 12. >> Jesmyn Ward: In Parchman Prison. I mean you know as I said I did lots
of research about Parchman Prison and one of the things that I read
is that you know, young Black boys. I mean these are children, right? As young as 12 and 13 were charged
with petty crimes and you know, something as silly
as loitering, right? And then sent to Parchman Prison. And once I read that and I thought
about these little boys sent to live and work and die in a
place like Parchman Prison, I felt like it would be doing an
injustice to young men like that if this character, this Ritchie,
this boy if he wasn't able to exist in the present moment and wasn't
given the opportunity to speak. So at that moment I was like
"Okay the only way he is going to have the opportunity to speak in
the present moment and to interact, really interact with JoJo"
this 13 year old Black boy who is living now and
the modern self. The only way that's going to
happen is if Ritchie is a ghost. You know and so I felt
like I didn't have a - I really didn't have
a choice, you know. As soon as I knew that a kid like him existed I had
to write about him. >> Ron Charles: It's tremendously
effective and powerful, and means so much when you think about how we are haunted
by this past. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes, I mean it's - I mean they're completely
different characters, right? But here you have Ritchie is
a 13 year old boy who lived in and was a victim of Parchman
Prison and of I think the legacy of slavery right, in
Mississippi from the 1940's. And yet he - and then here
in this present moment in the book you have JoJo another
13 year old, young Black boy who is wrestling with
that same legacy, right? >> Ron Charles: What
opportunities will he have? >> Jesmyn Ward: Exactly. >> Ron Charles: The
book, it's not hopeful. But there are moments of hope. There's a suggestion of some sort
of resolution, there's a suggestion that these ghosts can
be not exorcised, but at least put to
peace in some way. As you look across America
can I invite you to speak about what might bring
some more element of peace to our incredibly fraught
culture at the moment? I mean when Obama was elected a lot
of people in this room were full of hope and optimism, which
now seems painfully naïve. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. I think that - I think that
part of what Ritchie needs, part of what these ghosts
may need is they need - they need their stories
to be told, right? They need the terror and the
pain of what they lived through, they need that told and they
need that acknowledged, right? And I think that's a beginning to
finding our way towards hope, right? I think that we - that we're in
this very odd moment in history where there's a very sort of
active you know, group of people, element in our society
who is totally against acknowledging this history. They're against acknowledging that this Civil War was
fought because of slavery. >> Ron Charles: No, it
was about states' rights. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yeah exactly. You know there again, it's like
acknowledging that you know that Black people have been devalued
and dehumanized in this country for hundreds of years and that that history you know has
real effects today, right? >> Ron Charles: Yes. >> Jesmyn Ward: We live with that and there again it's
acknowledging all of that. So I think that part of the way
that we might hopefully find out way towards a more
hopeful or better moment is by at least beginning
by just acknowledging - >> Ron Charles: Telling
these stories. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yeah
telling these stories. >> Ron Charles: Are
you, this sounds naïve but aren't you amazed how many
stories have not been told? >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes I am. >> Ron Charles: I remember reading
Beloved, it was a long time ago but I learned about
slavery in school. I just thought you
know Black people had to work really hard
and they were enslaved. I had no idea it was a whole
system of torture and rape. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes, I just recently
read a fantastic life changing book called "The Half has Never Been
Told" by Edward E. Baptist, I think. And it is amazing. And it's all about slavery and
the making of American capitalism. >> Ron Charles: Yes, we
don't acknowledge it. >> Jesmyn Ward: We don't. And I had no - I'm 40 years old and
I just read it for the first time. I had no idea. >> Ron Charles: I didn't
know about this prison. I remember Toni Morrison
talking about when she began to write Beloved, she
discovered all these ghastly tools that have just been
written out of our history. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. >> Ron Charles: Switching
subjects a bit. You are relatively new mother. I understand you have two children? >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. >> Ron Charles: One pretty young? >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes, two months. >> Ron Charles: Congratulations. >> Jesmyn Ward: Thank you. >> Ron Charles: The central
character of your book is a mother. And she's a terrible mother. I mean I know we hate to say that
about anybody because it's hard to be a mother, but she's
selfish and she's mean and she doesn't like her kids. >> Jesmyn Ward: No. >> Ron Charles: We all don't like our kids sometimes
but this is different. She kind of enjoys you know,
making them uncomfortable. What was that like? To create a character like that? A young mother who
was really bad at it? >> Jesmyn Ward: It was hard. She was the hardest character
for me to write because you know, normally in all of my fiction I
feel like I love all my characters. >> Ron Charles: The previous book, those characters tore
everyone's heart out. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes. I love them. But she was difficult
because at least when I was writing the very
first chapter which is told from JoJo's perspective
and JoJo he - there's much that he doesn't
understand about his mother. He sees the way that she abuses
him and that she neglects them and but he - and he doesn't
understand why. >> Ron Charles: How could he? >> Jesmyn Ward: Exactly,
I mean he's 13, right? And so - and so when I was
writing that first chapter I was like man, I really don't like her. And then I began writing her chapter
and I still did not like her much. And I realized that one of the
reasons that I did not like her is because she was such an awful
mother and she was so horrible to her children and as a new mom and as a mother I just couldn't
understand why she would treat her kids like that. And so I - it was then that
I realized I have to figure out what's driving
this woman to do this. And then you know as I sort of
wrote more of that second chapter and then I went to
the third chapter. I still didn't know, right? And so when I came back around to
her again in the fourth chapter, I made a decision, right? The phantom that she
was seeing would be one, her brother that she lost. And two, that he would be an
actual ghost .That he wouldn't be a hallucination, right an
effect of her substance abuse. And that changed everything for me because suddenly I
understand her motivation. I understand the wound that
she was living with, you know? And that made her sympathetic
to me, that made me love her because I felt so badly
for her, right? >> Ron Charles: Yes. >> Jesmyn Ward: Because
the great pain of her life and she can't figure out how
to - she can't figure out how to come to terms with her grief. She can't figure out
how to move beyond it. And you know and she's so like
- she's so selfish and she's so wrapped up in herself
and her pain that you know, I think that affects every
relationship in her life. >> Ron Charles: Yes. I think confronting a question like
that and being willing to stick with it and answer it is what
makes the book so powerful. And so emotionally complex, if she were just a villain
the book wouldn't really work. >> Jesmyn Ward: No, no, no, no. >> Ron Charles: A story about
a boy who was a villain. The book switches back and forth
chapter by chapter for the most part between the son and the mother. The boy is extremely
sympathetic taking care of his three year old sister
pretty much on his own, knowing that he can't let his mother
do it because she might leave them or she might hurt them or who knows. Yeah I had the same reaction reading
the book that I hated this woman and then by the end she just seemed like a really tragic character
in the most complex way. She's an addict, she
knows she's an addict and when she acknowledges
how awful she is, you just feel horrible for her. What is that like to live with? >> Jesmyn Ward: Because she knows. I think that part of her knows
that she's an awful person and she's an awful mother and
that she's doing lasting damage to her children by treating them the
way that she does, but she can't - she just can't help herself. She can't you know see beyond
her own issues, you know, see beyond her own pain to
be there for her children, to care for her children
and nurture them. She just can't do it. >> Ron Charles: It's
tough and very real. As they're traveling they meet
this gentleman, this character who is part of a drug
deal of some kind. He's extremely kind and
just really evil, right? Don't you think he's just unnerving
how polite he is and how nice he is. He's like the devil you know? Where'd that guy come from? >> Jesmyn Ward: I had a lot
of fun writing this guy. I don't know where he came from. He just - I - as I was writing
this story I think that he - it's funny because I'm continuously
surprised when I write - >> Ron Charles: By these people? These characters? >> Jesmyn Ward: Yeah as I'm writing. I mean I'm not the kind of
writer that maps everything out from the very beginning. I don't plot, I don't
do any of that. I start with characters. I have a vague idea of
where they might be going. >> Ron Charles: Were you surprised
they stopped at this house? >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes, I was. I was like "Oh look at this. Who's this"? >> Ron Charles: And he's so
solicitous and getting the water, "Anything else you need"? >> Jesmyn Ward: Yep, yeah but I had
- he was just - it was interesting to spend some time with him
at his house as he's trying to feed them spaghetti and
put them in mortal danger. >> Ron Charles: It's a
drug run essentially. Everybody who writes
about your work notes that you have this
strikingly poetic style. >> Jesmyn Ward: They haven't always
noted that it's a good thing. In the past they've been like
"What do you have going on; I don't understand any of this. It's too much". >> Ron Charles: I think it's
beautiful and very poetic. And I'm curious, have
you written poetry? >> Jesmyn Ward: I wrote lots
of bad poetry when I was in high school and also in college. And then for a few years after - so
into my early 20's I was writing - I wrote a lot of poetry,
but I feel like I'm afraid that I'm not very good at it. I'm afraid I'm not a very good poet. I love poetry, with everything
in me I love reading it. I love reading poetry. I feel like when I read poetry that I remember how amazing
language can be and like all of the things that language can do. And how the right word or the
right image, or the right sound of these words strung together
how that can make you feel, you know this well
of emotion, right? And so I love poetry. I just - I'm afraid that
I'm not a very good poet, if I could I don't know, maybe when
I'm - if I live to be 60 then - >> Ron Charles: Like
twice your age now. >> Jesmyn Ward: I'm actually
40, so 20 more years. >> Ron Charles: I hope you
write poetry before then. So you haven't published any? >> Jesmyn Ward: I haven't
published any. I would love to publish poetry,
but I'd be very nervous about - very anxious about how
it would be received. But I always admire writers who
write you know in multiple forms, and write across several
different genres'. And I would love to - >> Ron Charles: You write
non-fiction too though. >> Jesmyn Ward: I do. I write non-fiction. But I would love to write children's
literature and I would love to publish maybe just
one book of poetry. >> Ron Charles: Well who do you go
to to know if your work is any good? >> Jesmyn Ward: Oh so I have a
group of friends, all writers, some of them I met when I was at -
in the MFA program at the University of Michigan at I met when
I was a fellow at Stanford. And once I sort of
write a rough draft and then revise it multiple times,
and I get the manuscript to a point where I don't think I'll embarrass
myself if I send it to my friends, then I send it to my friends and I say "Can you look
at this please, read it. Tell me what you think. What's working and
what's not working". >> Ron Charles: Do they? >> Jesmyn Ward: They do. It takes them a couple
months but they read it and they write a response
and they send it back to me and then I revise again, multiple
times based on their feedback. And only after I've done that do
I then send it along to my editor who is amazing and who I think
really makes me a better writer. >> Ron Charles: That's great. You don't have trouble
receiving harsh criticism. >> Jesmyn Ward: Nope. I think I took so many writing
workshops when I was younger that I became accustomed to it. >> Ron Charles: You're over that. >> Jesmyn Ward: And because
I understand nothing is - at least for me I mean there might
be some magical writer out there who puts something down on
the page and it's perfect. I am not that writer. I know that when I put something
on the page that there's plenty that is you know, that
needs work, right? And so I feel like my friends who
are writers and also my editor, they're doing me a favor
because they're helping me to realize this vision that I had. They're making the book the best that it can be by giving
me feedback. >> Ron Charles: That's
a good attitude; it's pretty tough to have though. So what do you read
that you like this year? >> Jesmyn Ward: Okay let's see. I have a lot on my bedside table. So I actually the Half has
Never Been told, this year. It was amazing. It took me a long time because
it's so dense, but I did. I read that book. >> Ron Charles: Did you
read George Sanders book? >> Jesmyn Ward: I haven't
had the opportunity - >> Ron Charles: There are
ghosts in that book too. >> Jesmyn Ward: I heard that. >> Ron Charles: Some Black ghosts
in this with unnamed graves. >> Jesmyn Ward: I want - I was
very excited about the fact that he was coming out
with something new, but I just haven't had the
opportunity to read it yet. >> Ron Charles: Would you take
questions from this audience? >> Jesmyn Ward: Sure. >> Ron Charles: We've got two mics
here, one there and one there. Just come up. It's very hard for us to
see you with the lights on so wave your hands around. You wrote a memoire
of the men we reap - >> Jesmyn Ward: Reaped. >> Ron Charles: Reaped. Incredibly powerful book about
five men in your life who died. That's a strange way to - it's a
strange conceit and it says so much about the tragedy of
what's going on in America. Talk about how that
book was conceived? >> Jesmyn Ward: I think that in one
way or another I have been writing about my brother ever since I
began seriously trying to write. >> Ron Charles: He was killed? >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes he was killed. He was hit by a drunk driver. And I was writing about
him even when he was alive; I feel like I was writing about
him in one way or another. And so once I you know lived
through those four or five years when my brother died and my cousin
died and my three friends died. I knew that one day I'd
write about that experience but I didn't exactly know
what form it would take. Because I could have
fictionalized it, right? But then I thought about it and I
realized no one would believe it. They wouldn't be able to suspend
their disbelief because they'd be like this doesn't happen, there's no
way you know that - there's no way that it would be like this rash of
deaths in this really small town. >> Ron Charles: It's an irony that we won't accept
certain things as fiction. >> Jesmyn Ward: Yes, and
so I knew if it's creative and non-fiction then
they have to accept it because they know it's the truth,
right, that I'm telling the truth. And so - and so I began
working on that project. I mean I just felt that was
a story that I had to tell. I had to write about my
brother's life, I had to write about my friend's life, I had
to write about all their deaths because I felt like
people didn't know. And I felt like they should know. >> Ron Charles: And
implicit in that book is that this is not so uncommon. >> Jesmyn Ward: Exactly; yes. >> Ron Charles: Which is - >> Jesmyn Ward: I mean it is
heartbreaking when I travel and I meet so many different people and so many people have read
the book and they come up to me and they say, "I felt like
you were writing my life". "I lost this person and
I lost that person". I mean and it's - yeah it is. It's heartbreaking to
know that you know, that so many other people have lived and are living through
the same thing. >> Ron Charles: It is, it's
an incredibly powerful book. Yes ma'am? >> She was first, I'll let her go. >> Ron Charles: Yes ma'am. >> Well I was going to mention
that boo, the Men we Reaped and I - first I wanted to say I'm so sorry
for your loss and for your family. The book touched me in ways
that I can't really relate to, but it just was very powerful. And I also what you said earlier
today was that these stories need to be told when you're
talking about your other book. But I think that that's so true
with the stories that you told in Men We Reaped; and so
I just wanted to thank you for telling those stories. And bringing that out so that
we could hear about that; I think that is one way that we
can come together as a nation. And that was a really important
- I'm sure it was incredibly hard for you to do that; so thank you. >> Jesmyn Ward: Thank you. [ Applause ] >> Hi, I'm from Hancock County,
Mississippi, from Bay St. Louis. So I really wanted to
come see you today. And I've been living here
for a really long time. So, I often feel like I'm
an ambassador for our state. I wanted to chat with you a little
bit about this because I have kind of like a materialistic, like
defensiveness of Mississippi, where I can criticize
Mississippi but ya'll can't. And so I was just wondering you
tell a lot of very raw stories about you know where
Mississippi is the setting. But you've also had the opportunity
to go to places like Stanford and interact with people who
have probably never been there. And how do you balance
you know telling stories that are representative of this
place without I don't know, letting people read
too much into it. Yeah. >> Jesmyn Ward: That's
a good question. I mean I think the way
that I balance that is by creating characters
who are complicated, who have dimension, who are alive. Who are not just like one
thing, you know what I'm saying? They're not there you know, no
one is - at least my hope is that no one is a villain. No one character is
a villain in my work. All these people that
I write about you know, they lead very complicated lives and
they're just human beings and trying to do the best that they can, right? With the circumstances
that they've been given. And so I hope that by making
them as human as I possibly can that it will be harder, you know
for people when they read my work to just sort of dismiss the kind
of people that I write about, or dismiss the place that I - dismiss the place that
I write about. Because I mean sometimes I too feel
like an ambassador for Mississippi, especially when Hurricane
Katrina comes up in conversation. Because I know that sometimes people
can have like very dismissive ideas about people that stayed,
the people that remain when they know a hurricane
is going to hit. You know the people that
are struggling to survive after a natural disaster like that. You know comes to Mississippi,
comes to the South and so yeah, I try to humanize my
characters the best that I can so that people aren't able to sort
of you know, aren't able to say "Oh you know they're just
backwards", "They're just dumb, they don't make good decisions". I want to you know, complicate them so that you can't dismiss
them like that. And so that you know you're able to
see JoJo, this is just a kid trying to figure out what it is
to grow up and what it is to be an adult in this
country, right? So you can look at Leoni's character
and say oh no this is a woman who is struggling with
the loss of a loved one. And who you know, is not
healing, right from that loss. So yeah, so that's
the way I think I try to balance I guess
the representation of the place that I'm writing about. >> Ron Charles: Yes sir? >> My name is James, hello. I have a question about
your book that just came out that you're talking about
and I would like to know will - have you intentionally wrote any
characters that are connected with the characters from
Salvage the Bones in regards of stream of consciousness. The last time I read that book
was my last year at Morehouse. >> Jesmyn Ward: That's
a good question. I don't know if - I will try
to answer it as well as I can. I think in some respects that
- Salve the Bone was written from Esch's perspective, right? So from the perspective
of this teenage girl; and so she's speaking
the entire time, right? She has agency, she is
determining the narrative, she's determining -
she's telling the story. And so I think some of
that carried over in Sing, because here I am you know
allowing a 13 year old Black boy to tell the story as
he understands it. And then allowing his - and
then his mother is able to do so at the same time, and then
there's another narrator, right? One of the ghosts speaks here. And I - you know I -
it's funny because I feel like the first person - writing from the first person
perspective is - I like it. It's easier for me then writing say
from a third person perspective. It's definitely easier
for me than writing from like a second
person perspective. And so there is something that
seems natural about inhabiting - about these people and about them
sort of inhabiting my head space and speaking to me and then - and
then I'm just sort of translating and letting their words,
you know come to the page. >> Ron Charles: How do you
get inside people that are so different than yourself? >> Jesmyn Ward: From myself? I - >> Ron Charles: You didn't have a
childhood like any of these people? >> Jesmyn Ward: No I didn't. I don't know. I don't know if I can answer that. >> Ron Charles: You
need to find out. >> Jesmyn Ward: I don't know. Honestly often it feels like this
person is sitting right here, sort of right outside of
my line of vision right? And they are telling me
- they're speaking to me, they're saying these
things and I'm just sort of sitting there typing away. >> Ron Charles: I don't
believe that at all. >> Jesmyn Ward: Imagining - >> Ron Charles: The things you write
are too artistic, are too formed, are too beautiful, are works of art. No one is dictating that to you. >> Jesmyn Ward: It feels that way. I think in the moment of creation
and I'm specifically talking about writing - when I
write the rough draft, it feels very intuitive, you know? Like I'm not thinking about you
know how well I'm developing my characters or whether there's too
much narration and too little scene in this section or how my dialogue
is working; I don't think about any of that when I'm working on the
first rough draft of a work. I just let it come. Now I do - I do revise a lot. But I only revise once I've
completed an entire rough draft. Then I go back and I revise again
and again and again and again and then I think about
all those things. I think about character development. I think about plot, I think about
you know balancing narration and scene, I think about dialogue. I think about all those things
when I'm going - when I revise and then I do edit after
edit after edit after edit. And I actually enjoy revision even
though it probably doesn't seem like I do, as I'm saying that. But I do, I enjoy revision. I enjoy the fact that I have
something to work with and so yes, I think about those things
when I'm going back in, but in that first moment I don't. >> Ron Charles: Just feel possessed. Did you want to follow up sir? >> Thank you. >> Jesmyn Ward: Thank you. >> I saw in View with Alice
Walker once and she said that all of her characters come to
her and tell her who they are and then she types them
out, so you're not alone. I wanted to say this to you, I
absolutely love Salvage the Bones; I cannot tell you how much. My book club loved it
and we would do anything to get you to do a sequel. But in addition to that I wanted
to say on behalf of every women in the world who has ever been
wronged by a man she loves, thank you for letting
Cash kick this guy's butt. I mean thank you. And we need that sequel. >> Jesmyn Ward: Thank you. >> Ron Charles: Thank you ma'am. [ Applause ] >> So my family too is from
Hancock County, though I am not. And while Katrina devastated
my family, I think in your novel it opened me
up to a perspective that I would, as a White woman, not naturally see. And I'm reminded of that as my
family is currently in Houston. And going through the destruction
in their lives and property there. But I think you've helped me
reflect on my battles are different than other people's battles,
so I want to appreciate that in your fiction
and non-fiction. But my question is do you feel like when you're reading fiction you
learn more about kind of humanity and the past and things
like that, or do you feel like you do more so
through non-fiction? >> Jesmyn Ward: That's
a good question. I don't know if I can quantify. I feel like - I really
think that everything that I read teaches me
something, you know? And that you know say when I need
to immerse myself in a story, you know in a fictional
story and you know go along with this experience that doesn't
mirror mine then I go to fiction. If I want more - and/or sometimes I
can do that in memoire too, right? Or if I want to learn more
than I know now then I'll go to creative non-fiction for that. I don't know, I feel
like I don't know - I feel like everything teaches me
something, every book gives me - if I read it all the way
through it gives me - the reason that I'm reading it is because it's giving me
something that I need. And so I don't - it's really hard
for me to compare the two genres because they give me so much. I don't know if I - I probably
didn't answer that so well. >> Ron Charles: I agree. It's such a pleasure to have
you today, thank you so much. >> Jesmyn Ward: Thank you all. [ Applause ] >> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress. Visit us at LOC.gov.
