Jehovah's Witness: Why Former Bethelite Leaves

you know the question was asked you know why did we leave and that's a question a lot of people often ask JT why did y'all guys leave I mean you were doing so well you know he was a local elder former Bethel white he was involved in circuit activities regional convention activities you know why did you leave and people leave the organization for different reasons some people they are disfellowship they may be involved in adultery fornication to end up in this fellowship such a person many times will come back you know if realize I did something wrong let me go back to the congregation you have people who often leave because they are discouraged as an elder that was a common thing that you would find when you would do shepherding calls the friends were simply discouraged it was said no brother JT no I just can't keep up so basically because of the Manns of the organization people can't run fast enough jump high enough you know and they just they wear out they tire out and they just give up now it's interesting that during that particular time sometimes people will begin to re-examine the teachings and that will oftentimes leave them not going back then you have those who will tell you they left because of a fallout they had with some in the congregation now the brothers are not loving the congregation is not warm you hear that a lot in fact a lot of the podcasts and a lot of the things you see on the internet when people relate their personal experience about why they left you often hear people say you know brothers my congregation is weren't loving I didn't see the love that Jesus said you find and on and on well for me that was not the case at all I'd be honest with you I wasn't because I have a fallout with brother Johnson or you know sister Jones you know we didn't get along or the circuit overseer in this scenario the brothers weren't using me that was not the reason I left the reason I love was strictly for doctrinal reasons and as I mentioned in the last podcast there were basically three doctrinal changes that the society made that literally made me stop in my tracks and I had to take a step back and re-examine what we had been taught the first one was the teaching of the generation of 1914 now why does love interest to me was because I used to have a talk that I got his talk when I was a minister serving at Bethel when the brothers who was a mentor for me help me put this talk together and he was a former district overseer being called the Bethel and he worked down the service department so the brother was he was he was known as a society troubleshooter the Society was sending out the congregation's around the United States and at that time he was actually able to remove brothers right there on the spot and real sign elves right there in that congregation so he was what they referred to as a society troubleshooter but he took the time and a lot of african-american brothers interestingly there was certainly after American brothers buffle they would bring other brothers underneath their wing and fortunately I was one that was actually a brother he brought me on his wing and so this man taught me things about the organization at a level that the average Jehovah's Witness just wouldn't be exposed to and so as a ministerial servant it was amazing the things that he taught me you know how the organization runs and he have a basic principle he said he said jteem always do these two things love the friends and make sure that you know organizational procedures like the back of your hand he said you might not be like but you always be right because you can quote something from the Society's publication and because that's the problem that often happens in congregations you can have a body of elders s disagreeing over something and the basic position of Jehovah's Witnesses especially as elders is if a brother can bring out something in print then the rest of the elders they have to concede this is direction we're going so as he always encouraged me to learn what the society has in print and so he had one of those what they call a captain's bag that the lot of certain district overseers Emil used to have years ago big old bag and he had one of those and he actually helped me put together a little portfolio of different articles when you go on a shepherding call and you deal with a sister or brother got children now this is what you share with them if you're dealing with someone on this issue health issues and so all these articles in the ham and he showed me the make a little index for it and so you can back and forth that you can have the you can have the reference material right there at your hand so when I rolled out a buffle you know I had a little portfolio that was probably better or just as good a sub circuit overseer I just didn't have body of it all those letters but in terms of shepherding material and how to work with the friends encouraged the friends and I knew how to do that and because that was for his stress he says love the friends and make sure that you know organizational procedures like the back of your hand and so I be I begin to see how that worked and so when the organization came out with the article on the generation of 1914 I had a public talk that I had given there was one of those of my favorite talks and in that particular article I incorporated with the help of him he showed me you always incorporated articles into your talks keep them fresh you know change your examples out change your illustrations out you know don't be giving the same when you gave ten twelve years ago but within that particular talk that public talk there's a part that I would incorporate the may 15th 1984 watch town there's some people some of you may remember what that article was about it was called the generation of 1914 it will not die out now if you take a look at those samples you have there you will see that on the cover of that magazine there's a number of older individuals I basically knew all of those because they're all baffle lights they are what we call the senior bath lights they had been in Buffalo 30 40 50 years I mean these guys go way back and so when the picture was taken of all these older Buffalo I see and that's the thing about that you get to see people who actually own the magazines in the magazines they take their pictures and so you would go around I saw you on the magazine sorry in the magazine and so this particular article when it came out in May 15 1984 it went into an in-depth examination of Jesus's words this generation and if you read the article you'll see it points out very very clearly that this generation will not die so I had worked into this I worked this little part into my talk we're in the middle of talk I will slow down a little bit pause and I'll say you know it's very good it's a very good feeling to know that I will never grow old and die and then I will slow it down with us you know you may be saying well brother GT how can you make such a statement with such certainty and then I would reach down on the podium and I will pull up my may 15 1984 watch down a hold up to the congregation so you can see also all the friends can see it I said the reason why I can make this statement with such confidence brothers is because the faithful and discreet slave the governing body under the direction of Holy Spirit they have been helped to understand something that no one else understands the deeper things of God and one of the things they have been helped to understand is the identity of the generation that will not die out and as you know brothers this generation is getting up into age so this was basically a standard teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses for decades all around the world I mean I'm still before thousands of people other elders stood before thousands circuit over since thousands of people publishers pioneers have gone to people's homes and told millions and millions probably billions of people this generation now it's interesting when they changed it the watchtower change the teaching of the generation and and I tell people when you examine critically the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses one of the things that you have to do is you have to put it on a timeline because only by putting it on a timeline can you really see the critical thinking questions that you need to ask when the watchtower first started out teaching the generation 1914 they said this teaching is based on people who were old enough to understand the events of 1914 so the watchtower started out with something like persons about 15 years old they will understand that what life was like in 1912 1913 and now with 1914 they see the changes in the world and so it would be this generation these people would not die out now what the watchtower deal with the society they put they built a trap for themselves because what they did they set a time frame anybody who can count configured if a person is 15 years old and the Bible says he's only gonna live to get about 70 to 80 it's not rocket science I figure out that the society is letting us know that within this generation before these folks die systems on the end and so then all of a sudden few years later you go back you look at the time line what you'll see is they change like well the person's maybe ten years old of course now they add five more years on and then after a while it went from like 10 years old down the babys people who were born in 1914 there that's the generation and so when they made the change to what's called the overlapping generation when you put this on a time line it's it's almost laughable you start out with 15 you go to 10 you go to 5 you go to babies then now you simply jump over to a whole new generation and so this is a kind of stuff that when you sit at look at it critically you see that there's something wrong here now you know that somebody in the writing apartment when they was floating this new thing about the lopping jenner overlapping generation you know somebody was sitting in the right department like now I know y'all not gonna try to run with that why don't we just tear the friends we all know what generation Jesus was talking about in instead brothers let's focus on putting forth their footage of the spirit yeah you know somebody know somebody said that you know we don't know what it is let's stop playin right like we know because you look at it now they've had like four or five oh four or five almost half a dozen tweets on it right now because what's happening is people understand basic concepts you see Jesus was talking to whom Jesus was talking to basic people he was talking to common people he was talking to farmers fishermen people who were gonna hurt us so when they heard the word generation there was no such concept as overlapping generation in fact not one jehovah's witness for the last 25 30 40 50 years ever thought of overlapping generation when they heard the word generation I saw a picture once it was it was a picture of the Queen of England and pictures of Charles and his son and the new baby and so how many generation you seen this picture and anybody will have a brain oh you're looking at basically four generations because that's to understand that the average person had so when the wine style starts creating their own definitions to words overlapping the tales will double over laughing generation but you need that if you keep on the put forth this type of teaching and so when they change that I was like oh my goodness they really know they talking about then after that they had a change on the sheep in the goat now anybody who's been on Jehovah's Witness knows that when the circuit overseer would come in he always stressed that what we're doing friends is we're helping to separate the sheep from the goats and then the elders they would pick up on it and they will put it into their talks and service being part that brothers we go knock on doors with the help of the angels we're separating the sheep from the go that's what we taught we taught us a teaching of God we never taught it as an opinion of the writing department we said this is a teaching of the Bible well it turns out the watchtower comes up like ah we know it Oh y'all when y'all go and feel there is y'all separating your sheathing to go but we need to revise that you're not really separating she's gonna go that's gonna happen later on it sounds like how do you take some number 50 60 70 years and then with the struggle of opinion you just wipe it out and so then of course the third one the alternative service that alternative service is when people are asked by their country to go into the military the drafts as it were and they say no I become a conscientious objector I don't believe in going to war and so in a lot of countries they recognize that they may have citizens who for conscious reasons don't want to serve in you know as in the military so they sub what's called alternative service which means you now can do a job at the hospital or we're going to road crew but you won't get paid and so you do that in lieu of going to jail well this is what the watchtower taught for years they taught that if you are Jehovah's Witness and you calm if your 18 year old Jehovah's Witness and you call before the draft board you would explain to them that you will not be accepting the alternative service job that work at the hospital because you're nothing you're doing nothing but just substituting and you're not maintaining your neutrality and so as Jehovah's Witnesses around the world young men who went before draft boards and they were given the alternative going to work in the military and not working the military but to work in hospitals so they turned it down and they went to jail I remember we had a governing body member they got back from a zone visit and he'd been down to the Asian Pacific countries during his own visit he was relating the experience of how their brothers in certain countries that he visited these guys serve 12 years they get called up before the draft board they come in they say oh you don't take the alternative service job no they send off to jail at the end there for years they bring them back you're going to go to the army or you gonna take the alternative no they go back to jail this is eight years they bring them back sometimes a third time same question you're gonna go serve in the Army you want to serve and alternative service no and they go back to jail again so we're talking about a young man from eighteen to thirty years of age thirty years of age he comes out of jail he's a felon he now will have a difficult time getting a job anybody who looks at any application specially in the United States down to Barnegat little boxes have you ever been convicted of a fella people working in resources he'll tell you if I see that box check that is going to file 13 they might not be legal to do that but they do because people who are felons they're going to have a hard time getting employment well the problem was the society decided to change the teaching leaving thousands of young men all around the world languishing in prisons all around the world now I'm thinking myself this is ridiculous because people's laws have been impacted by your teachings that you said were teachings of God it's like Daniel in the lion's den it's like the three Hebrew boys in the fire that's what I'm going through for this teaching and the teaching turned out not to be anything that the Bible ever supported and this is people's lives you can't jack with people's lives one day you teach this is what God says next day you coming back my bad now I personally knew someone back in North Carolina who went to prison during the Vietnam War in fact it's kids who was growing up that was actually how we learned about his brother got known and so he came to your brother we knew and I remember you know how he would offer and relate what happened how that when he got his draft letter him and his mom they went to the body bells and they asked look you know you know would I be able to get into any program or anything what are you thinking of course in the boast home look know right now the Society's position is is that you're going to have to go to prison or you're going to be dealt with by the congregation but look we got the circus you're coming in a couple of weeks why don't we wait and see if he has any new information from the society so you know we would tell the story he waited and he waited and doing the meeting that night that Tuesday night he said he just his stomach was just in knots so they were in the back room they met with the circuit overseer and he said well right now brothers fuzz I know you you're gonna have to go to prison he said what what I can do I can contact the side just you know I can contact me just to make sure he said we'll get together again on Thursday night after the meeting so he said the next two days he could always sleep so when he gets back together on Thursday night at that particular time because the way the means was structured for this business circuit over said circumcision I'm sorry Society says you know what's in print basically and so he went to prison now this particular brother when they came out with this change this man was serving as an elder a question it really crushed him and the reason why it crushed him was not only that the society changed the teaching and this is very important for any jehovah's witness who is listening to this broadcast the society blame the brothers who went to jail that's amazing I mean you talking about slapping somebody in the face first you come on tell oh I know you went to jail before you but the Bible really didn't say you had to go to jail well the society basically said the reason you guys went to jail is because your conscience was so strict and he was eat now he's a crushed man because they blame him for going to jail when that wasn't the case at all he didn't go to jail because his conscience was too strict he went to jail because the watch timer said if you take this job as an alternative service job you are not maintaining neutrality now to add more insult is I mean the society just keeps on piling insult on top of insult to these people they didn't come out with an article did you suffer needlessly you know how do you feel do you feel that you suffer needlessly for God can you imagine somebody going to jail they found out that they went to jail not because God or the Bible said so but because some writers out of New York City that's what they came up with and putting the magazine they read it they believe it they applied it they went to jail and then to come out and be asked are do you feel you suffered needlessly for God no no the person will be like no I didn't suffer needlessly for God I suffer news it for some guys in the right department who thought this is where I need to be doing and so this is this and so this is the kind of stuff that I tell people when you stop and start asking critical thinking questions you stand back and you're like I don't saw something God would be involved in God would not send people by the thousands to jail only to change his mind and then when you finally they had nothing to do with God so basically these guys could have gone and taking these jobs with no problem can you imagine man if a brother went before a draft boy going for a boy right and he's standing at he's explaining a very eloquently you know as one of Jehovah's Witnesses a Christian you know we won't take alternative service job because really just a substitution and I'm gonna maintain my Christian net neutrality and everything you guys mom and daddy stand over there they all probably my son he's taking us to every truth you got some elders look at the bullet but the job's is to stand for the truth he's a good young man okay he'd go to jail he's sitting in jail for two weeks new magazine come out can you imagine this guy I go back and talk to the draft board again he he wants to come back in from the draft board he said I know when I was here two weeks ago I told you I couldn't take the alternative service job but I got this new magazine from New York muffled watched our governing back they say this new magazine and it says I can take the job now is that job still open for alternatives can you imagine that we're talking about playing with people's lives and so when used take a step back you then begin to ask questions about other things and then you see the similar pattern and the pattern that you see is very simple what you see are human opinions that have been elevated to divine status and now it's become a requirement of God in order to maintain your standing and your favor of God you have to do a B C only for the turn out to have always been simply an opinion of humans so this is what started us on this process of looking at what we had been taught and as you as you started digging you know I'll be honest with you you know I can see why the society does not want friends asking questions digging into the history of the organization because once you start and you like and this also undone God this foundation can be built on God you begin to see it and once you know as a you know as an elder I realize you know know a lot of the stuff that we would tell the friends it was just the opinion of the right department just just as simple and so that's what started us down this path and so now you know I look at people and look at the teachings and how they've been changed and all the changes they're making within the organization and it's almost like a ship without a rudder now I mean it's very unfortunate but but that's basically what started us down that path of re-examining what we had been taught for years and that's why you know our form that we have is not so much as to the bait you know the Greek word of this and the verb tense so that we go there slice out there they'll still they can debate that all day long you know what the Greek where it is what the Greek tense and then the verb in the now and the pronoun I counsel people can get all day long but at the end of the day the question you got to ask yourself is how does human get to elevate their opinions to divine status expect me to live my teach it to others and then five minutes later come back and say oh my bad you can't do that you can't do that you know the brothers are buffing the right Department governing body but ever you know they might be very very sincere because I can't read their heart don't want to even start but one thing becomes very obvious that there are teachings that they have they actually have no idea to talk about and instead of just being humble and saying you know we don't know you know they decide to make an answer up it always told people so you know the society would have probably been okay if they had stuck with basic Bible commentary you know offering this what we think the scripture means this how we think is apply but when they made a decision to climb up into the seat of Moses and the announced that you know we speak for God if you don't listen to our explanation you know you can't have a relationship with God once they made that decision to put themselves in that position you know it was all downhill because what that did that then set them up where when you make a statement you make a pronouncement you don't get to go back and rewrite it over again and and that's where the organization unfortunately we see more and more of and so we encourage people you know take your time ask the critical thinking questions that's why I tell B all the time I prefer to have questions I cannot answer you know people sometimes what generally we think is JD we think I don't know and so I will tell people I prefer personally to have questions I cannot answer I don't know the answer to them then to have answers that someone gives to me and says you better not question the answers I gave you and so that's what we encourage people to ask the critical thinking questions questions that you have to literally stop and be honest with the answers and that's really what it boils down to is just being honest with yourself ask the critical thinking questions and be willing to accept what the answers are because if not you're just fooling yourself ask the critical thinking questions this program was sponsored by critical thinkers

Channel: ExJW Critical Thinker

Views: 488,206

Rating: 4.4962807 out of 5

Keywords: Why I left Jehovah's Witnesses, Bethelite, Jehovah, Jehovah's Witness, Jahovah, Jehovah Witness, exjw, jehovahs witnesses

Id: rqYUCV4FHI4

Length: 23min 43sec (1423 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 30 2015

Reddit Comments

[u/HedgerowBustler]

Wow, this was great. We need more apostates like him. My only gripe would be that his claims are unsourced. Annotations with the appropriate citations would knock this out of the park.

[u/jd7509]

Fantastic reasoning, especially on the Alternative Service points. I wasn't aware of that (I've been out for awhile and that point never impacted me or anyone I knew ever). So messed up.

Like Ray Franz' point in Crisis of Conscience about oral sex. It's bad! It's ok. It's a conscience matter. No it's bad! He mentioned the same point, that people's lives were dramatically affected by this matter. Marriages were torn apart by what was written here. And it was all just a few men on a whim saying they're gonna go this route. How can you sleep when you decide to play God knowng it's destroying people's lives? For no reason. Other than that's your personal opinion that day. That's evil. Pure evil.

[u/funkyf]

Fucking stupendous. You see how deep in they were in the bOrg and even they were able to wake up. There's hope for everyone else, right? Thanks for the find wifi. You continue to be a great source.

[u/WashTowelLieBary]

If I could make videos openly, they would resemble this. They make levelheaded and fair arguments. Hard to refute or dismiss as angry and bitter

[u/jordanwiththefade]

Great video. This will be great for still in JWs. Thanks for sharing!

[u/Granpa0]

Great video. Wish I could share it with my mother but she wouldn't even bother watching it and immediately label it "apostate lies". It's her new favorite catch phrase. Ugh it makes me sick when I think about how deeply brainwashed she has become.

[u/froidpython]

He did a great job in explaining things. Good video.