Java on the Desktop

yeah welcome to not that yet you have own desktop this is not about Kirk we start so this is not about what's the better technology JavaScript or Java or whatever but this is Joe just to remind people that Java is still there and it makes some time sense to use it so let's take a short look first of all my name is Garrett my time working for Kara cool engineering oh no it's just Kara cool right not engineer he cool in Switzerland and we founded the company last year that's the reason for the confusion with the name and I'm mainly doing front-end design so basically most of the time JavaFX stuff but I also did web and also do a swift and did Android so I tried everything but yeah right now JavaFX still has the best api for me it makes me most productive so that's the reason why I'm using it let's take a step back to the year 2012 and you might remember that here because there was the Chromebook invented and it was like the desktop is dead that was the that just what I took from that year and so the future of applications what they said is the web I mean now seven years later yes many applications running on the web that's true but according to that map application for all my MacBook should look like this right because it's the web so I just just need browsers that's all I need even that we that screenshot is not correct because we see the finder which is a native application but yeah in fact my application for the looks like that so it's a lot of apps and these are not web apps most of them are not there might be one or two electron apps which I don't count as a web app but okay so how is that how did it come seems the desktop is not dead right so seems it's not everything is running on the web and that means there must be a reason for this the question is what about Java in this content well first of all let's take a short review about what is available still abstract window toolkit AWT the first try to get something done from 1995 it's a cross-platform toolkit it's platform-independent a platform the pen sorry it bounds to native controls and it interface with native controls so that was the idea it works still but who used it someone here in the audience some yes and it yeah it's okay but yeah SWT standard window toolkit this was based on as far as my research is correct on smart out from 1993 from IBM this is cross platform it's again platform dependent it's a wrapper around native code controls and yeah I just skip it fastly because yeah not a big fan of off of SWT but it's still around everybody who uses Eclipse he uses SWT then we have Java swing which is the official successor to AWT and it's around since Java 1.2 1998 it's a cross-platform toolkit its platform independent it was the first one of those in the Java world really and it introduced look at fields and it emulates the appearance of native controls means this is not really bound to native controls anymore but it emulates it which was a great approach and then we had JavaFX script some of the guys here in the room know that and that was the intended successor to swing but it failed it's it's there since Java 1.6 2008 it's cross platform platform independent but it had no Java syntax it was a scripting language and it was invented or based on f3 form follows function from Chris Oliver and the story that I heard was that sping was a son was looking for something to replace wing and then they jumped on that train and transformed f3 into JavaFX script and it Chris Oliver said that it was never intended to be like it ended right and then finally we got JavaFX which is the successor to swing the official one and this is since Java 7 it was never part of the JDK it was just delivered with the JDK and in 2011 it came and it's cross-platform again platform independent it's a more-or-less port from JavaFX script to java so I know people that worked at Oracle at that time and they really just ported the whole JavaFX script stuff to the Java world and yeah that was no fun but they did a good job and like I said already it's not part of the Java SE distribution since Java 11 it's even not be delivered anymore so most of these frameworks are still in use except maybe a wot I don't know any application that is still using it but it would be possible and the question is is Java fix that because that's what people ask me all the time because I do a lot of Java FX so when people approach me I said so what's going on it's not part of the JDK anymore because everybody thought it was part and Oracle dropped it first they hyped it as hell and then suddenly they said that's it so Java FX it didn't appear anymore and now it's even not delivered with the JDK anymore so let me answer it like this it's an open source project it's since a couple of weeks it's running on github already so it was mercurial and now it's on github it's on open jfx i/o you can find more information about it it's more less driven by the community it can run on mobile devices using glue on technology which is also Java and it can also run on the web that I can show you later on using J pro technology it's actively developed and it's getting new features too so it's not really that it's dead it's just not in the main focus anymore right you'd so it's really rare to find sessions about job FX on conferences so that leads to the impression it's not used or whatever ok so then where does Java on desktop suck because there are really some points which sucks hard it's first of all there's a lack of third-party controls still if we came from Swing we had a lot of third-party libraries there was a whole business behind that and yeah in the JavaFX where this is unfortunately not the case some companies that had swing libraries started porting them to Java FX and then stops and never deliver them and so it's yeah that's really a big drawback and there are also missing features so if you ever work with a Java FX table view it simply sucks that's the only thing I can say so if you know the spring table view then yeah it could have been better unfortunately it's not and it seems nobody picks it up and creates a real good table view so that's something that's also missing mobile yeah I said it's possible and even though the gluon guys they really do a good job in creating making it possible to create Java applications on mobile it's really not on par with native stuff it might be on par with the the web stuff it depends on the application that's for sure UI design tools you have for Java effects we just have seen builder that's all we have and even this is not really ready for production in my eyes but many people use it because it's the only tool we have and there was a handful for swing and also SWT which was better because you had a choice now if you would like to use a UI where you have to use scene builder which is yeah that's that's not really nice but decent works yeah and this is a big one is the lack of Oracle support this is not really true because some of the main computers in Java X to work for Oracle but it feels like Oracle has no interest in Java desktop technology anymore at least not yet dub fx desktop I should say because they have swing applications still internally but with Swing it's a different story because swing is part of the JDK so it's still there and it will be used so Java FX is not so they can just drop it and there are no internal applications as far as I know inside of Oracle's so they don't need it right so that feels like they don't care I just know that a couple of Oracle people still commit to Java effects and take care about it look and feel yeah who did look and feel and swing that somebody in the room did it yeah it's a pain in the ass it really is and in Java FX is also not easy and don't get me started with SWT this is yeah there is nothing like really a look and feel it's it's all you have to do everything on your own drawing the stuff it's terrible and JavaFX yeah if you would like to create a native looking always Mac OS 10 app this is not possible right right out of the box you can do it but then you have to create all the controls and the fancy stuff that make that Apple does this is not easy because they really do a good job adapter in creating really great controls the Android stuff is more easy with a material design this is very easy to transform into a Java FX application but if you go to Apple the iOS stuff is really hard to do then there's still no OpenGL or DirectX access this is not really yeah it's still true but this is also not that important to many of the business application developers because you don't really need to open GL o DirectX except you have something like a 3d viewer for for CID files or something like that then you would like to need you would like to have OpenGL or DirectX access but we don't have yet the community again is working on solutions for that and that we have two approaches already that works but at the moment there is no support for these technologies well then this is general for fat lines they tend to be quite heavyweight in terms of memory and CPU but I just say electron I don't have to say anything else right so if this is all yeah if you see what this takes in memory and CPU it's yeah but it's a fat line so that's fair this is more that's not really related to Java only but yeah this is a it might be a drawback if you discuss with people coming with web application they always have fat lines they're so big need some much memory and all that so yeah that's true this is only for Windows users but yeah it requires often admin rights to install which is a drama can big companies because they don't want to go around and if you have hundreds of desktop applications to to installer update then it's it's also a hassle which is a drawback for for Java desktop costs most Java Script frameworks are for free right so you just download them and that's it and you can use it if you would like to go mobile or on the web with Java FX you have to pay and yeah what should I say I mean it's fair there are people that are spending really some time and money to create these frameworks and why won't you pay for that I mean this is we are just used to get everything for free but I'm yeah this is a personal thing so I switch to buying software after I finished my studies before that I copied everything and then it's like okay now I have the money I can pay for it right so and I think companies should think in the same way you get support and it's I think it's a good thing to pay for software updates oh yeah this is a nice one if you create a desktop application and that's an interesting discussion because this is always if you talk to people when it comes to Java desktop me say that's so bad updating the software there is not really something that works there was this web start thing never really took off and so how should we do that then if you ask yourself how does everybody else do it they just use installers right or use Apple app stores or something like that it works so the every native app comes with with the possibility to update these days this is not really magic but when it comes to Java everybody's complaining it's not possible it's not possible yes it is because we can build native apps with Java so you can use the same mechanism that you can use for any other native app so this is not only belongs to to job in general this would also be for any other desktop application that you use there are mechanisms to do that but because people I have been used to Web Start they are now complaining that it would be so hard to really update a java application because in the former days you have to make sure that you have the right jdk on your machine and all these things so these days this is not that hard anymore because you can bundle your jdk with the application most of the times so this is this is a no-brainer but ok mr it's a bad thing and the same goes for deployment which was also done by a web start for Java desktop and that's the same now as with every native application you can just use the native installer and do it right it's the same for I don't know if you built a electron app how do you deployed it the other electron app to the desktop same thing right either download it somewhere or you put it in an app store and download it and that's that takes care about the deployment so this is not really an argument but this is what I face - very often in discussions that people say a deployment an update is really a hassle then you ask them why and then they say well Web Start was so nice and say oh ok not really but okay and then this is one one point this is really true it's really hard to find good UI developers for Java desktop apps if you look for front and development or front-end developers then the most people you find they are good in whatever hyped script framework is up to date these days then if you ask for how can you do swing or JavaFX what no never heard of it I thought it's dead all right so this is so it's really hard to find good UI developers in that field which is the biggest drawback most of the times okay that's have been the bad parts but it has also some positive sides let's shortly go to this once so it's one platform that runs on Windows Mac Linux iOS Android embedded and even web and that's awesome I think so it's it makes things really easy to develop and it just works I mean 90% of the functionality comes with the core libraries so that and audio the rest you can find on the web because I think there's not one environment outside of the Java world that has so many libraries on on the Internet so if you have an idea you need something you just check the weapon you will probably find something at least one or a couple of solutions that will solve your problem then it's I said it's hard to do a look and feel that's true but it's easy with drug effects because it comes with CSS it's easy to style applications so that means we we do a lot of front-end desktop stuff for for customer projects and it's always like oh you know we have the Missis or CI color it's blue and in the buttons look like this and can we have the text in that color yes you can mmm and it's not really hard in swing times that was really hard because in swing you had to rewrite the whole application to do that and in JavaFX it's more or less if you are smart enough then it's really just exchanging a CSS file and the application will look different and that's really nice this is what many people don't don't really see I don't know I don't know it but it's really easy to do that you have customize windows some people need that but I to be honest I really didn't see that for a long time in the former days there have been some media players that had them irregular shapes for the windows this is not possible in the browser but it's possible with the with the native application in general so and also with the Java desktop application so the application could be a circle if you like it the window right this is no problem it's really good for doing complex applications like handling large data for visualization that's there Java is really nice so and I will show you some examples later on and there is a reason for that that they choose Java you stay on the same platform right means you have Java on the server on the client you have the same frameworks you have the same IDE testing towards deployment everything is the same I mean I worked on a project where we had a Java server side and then a web application and that was the first web application that I did and I was really shocked how many new things just for this web stuff came in and it's even that's a totally different stack right that is if you are not used to that if you just stay in the java world this is really easy and if you whatever web stuff you add if you are not used to the web things it's really a lot more that comes to to these things so I really think this is a big advantage when doing desktop applications yeah really use code in libraries I said that already so you you can really use the same stuff let's say you would like to write an application that uses some messaging technology so you can use the same libraries on the server side and on the client side and that makes things just easier it's yeah what should I say so it's it's just good to reuse the code even your own code can be used on both platforms own even though no by then it could you can use the same stuff we have concurrency it's built in in the JD the JVM somebody threading and concurrency they are really well supported which is a big advantage not always easy easy doing it in web applications for example you can do native access does someone ever DJ an i or j na this is great right I mean it works kind of but it's not really that easy and we are hoping for project Panama in the future to make things easier so but it's possible at least right so you can really go down to the to the metal mmm with Java a drag and drop we can use only we can use oh we can use drag and drop between Windows and desktop and filesystem easily because that's built-in which I don't know I think it also works now in web applications right so you can do that but it in the beginning it was not possible but here it's just no problem to use it it's just there network programming okay that also works in other frameworks but it's always good to mention it it's always there and with Java 11 we also have an HTML client and all these things in the JDK so you don't need additional libraries to do that which is also quite nice WebSockets are supported and all these things internationalization never did it in a web application but on the desktop side in Java this is really easy to do I guess it's the same on web I don't know do you yes I this is but it's not always easy in other languages so in Java that's quite nice to do it offline yeah it's a desktop application offline is the standard and online is just additional sugar right so you but offline you can always run your stuff offline it's hardware accelerated that's also true for web applications but it depends what you do so sometimes one platform is better than the other but it's possible to do to visualize really large amounts of data with Java desktop applications and this is the reason why it's used in research and science app apps a lot so that's that's also an advantage it can run on mobile did someone ever use it yeah I don't think so the dead Box app yeah I will show some demos I also created some stuff so it's possible and it's surprisingly good so it's you don't think that that you can run a java application on an iPhone for example with the acceptable speed but yes that's possible even 3d support and all that is possible and it's hardware accelerated and you can deploy to the App Store but I will come to that later it also runs on web so there's a company called J Pro and they do a quite interesting approach so what they do is they run job FX on the server side and they split the rendering transform it to SVG and then send that to the browser so the rendering is done in the browser and the rest is done on the server side it sounds weird but it runs really well so I was really surprised when I saw it and when you go to the web site I will show you a link then the whole web site is programmed drive effects so that was interesting to see because I didn't know that it has stabilized and the same code can run for years and this is really a big advantage because the application lifecycle is with Java desktop perhaps totally different than it is with web applications and we can see it for example like this so if we take web frameworks then usually it's like that right so it's one two three years we have all these new frameworks coming up where Java Java desktop that sorry it's it's more like this so we have a life cycle and within a decade maybe sometimes so let's go to the typical environments of Java desktop so insurance companies use it banks in the industry scientific institutes the military trading companies aviation space and defense medical companies and automotive and as you can guess these are not the companies that you see in let's say how to say that usually these companies don't show these applications on conferences especially not military space and defense aviation automotive you will never see applications from then at conferences so that leads to the impression well I just see web everywhere means the rest this doesn't exist anymore and this is just not true because when I give you a little this is just a little overview who's using it then you might recognize some names on that list they are not so small companies especially on the left side when you you will see this Airbus Aldi Emirates Airlines NASA BMW Sohn Volkswagen they all use Java desktop application internally some of them heavily so there's one example which is worth mentioning is its Forks wagon because a couple of years ago I think it's four years ago at JavaOne a guy approached me and said well Garret yeah I know you I read your blog and yeah great stuff so maybe you would like to come to my session and I said yeah sure so what is it yeah I'm from frocks wagon and I will show Media Center stuff that we do in JavaFX and was like what four cars yep so I went there and this guy showed us really fancy stuff that is running in cars in the media displays nobody knows that it's JavaFX and he told us that in all folks wagon cars since I don't know how many years all the media displays running Java they just don't use swing no AWT they use their own OpenGL layer to render it but the whole stuff that you know and folks wagon is just volkswagen is the biggest automotive company in the world so they always also own as long as as far as I know their own seeit Audie Porsche that's all and order the media displays running Java that was for me a big surprise and nobody knew that before even Oracle that guys meant what totally stroke what they use it oh we didn't know right then zeiss for example I gave a session at the conference it was some kind of a tutorial and then some guy was sitting in the audience and it seemed he knew everything already and I was surprised and then I approached him and asked him so how do you know all that stuff when we use that I said whether you come from yeah I'm working for Zeiss I said oh so what is ice doing with javafx well yeah we use it on the microscopes and I told him so why did we don't you talk about that and he said well for our customers they don't care about the technology it just has to work so why should we talk about that so we can just switch to other technologies but they just use JavaFX and all these these are examples where you really see it's these industries are not really the ones that you see on on fancy talks and conferences so and that leads to the impression okay nobody uses Java on desktop but this companies use that a lot so and we have with some of them we have projects for years so it's really interesting that if you talk to people and then they approach you like yeah Java on desktop is that and then you say no it's not we have projects in this industry and it works so it still many people request us to do stuff for them right and they are more this is just the stuff I knew so that means Java on desktop is that not yet all right so at least that's to my knowledge the question is why is it not taking into account really and this is something I was asking myself all the time and when I came to companies when we talked with the technical guys then I found something that I named had driven development that is really like they have a problem they would like to solve the first thing they do decide about the technology that they use so that means all we need a new product so what should we do well let's take angular 11 but it's not even in better yet ah we don't care we just use it okay great so let's solve the problem and they don't even discuss the technology so that's really interesting and I saw that quite often when we talk to people and for them it was given that they do use the latest and greatest web stack even if it's not officially released yet they just jump on the train and do it so I was really surprised when I saw that so I think it should be more requirements driven development like first of all try to understand the problem that you have then you choose the right technology and if WEP is worth using it then use weapon if it's desktop then use desktop and it doesn't have to be even Java it could whatever desktop technology but it makes sense right so there's a reason why we have all these desktop applications still because it seems the web doesn't really work for that kind of stuff and then you solve the problem hopefully and what you can use for that that might help you with this is so-called questionnaire matrix which looks like this for example I just pull it up you try to split the application in specific topics and then you have something like like a range like very important important not that important unimportant and then you can make crosses what what applies and then you can give it points from minus 4 to 4 in this example and in the end you can just sum it up and then it will tell you ok it's a desktop application better or is a web application better or whatever this is just an example it's really not real I just put it up it might not be easy to find these questions for you but in the end you see stuff like is it hazard complex 2d graphics or 3d graphics should it be run offline is a mobile client needed or not stuff like that and then think about this whole thing before you choose the technology and this is that would at least be my advice when it comes to starting a new project well and so let me show you some examples of Java desktop applications for example this is also something that deciced users and because Java FX is nice in doing you eyes it's not so nice in doing for example 3d stuff if you really need OpenGL or stuff like that then spring was better mmm so what they do this the frame is Java FX and internally these things this is swing so they just combine it alright which is possible so and it's it's good then we have mint which is a training system for pilots that is use in the European Union Union it's also based on Java effects it doesn't look fancy but that's not the point right then we have that you might heard about that this is a deep-space trajectory Explorer from NASA that is used to calculate the trajectories of satellites and the whole thing is done in Java FX so this is just one screen because the application is quite complex as you can imagine but these guys worked on that for years and they use it in production and then we have oh this is something I'm working on not really my beloved project but it's to organize containers on vessels and give the company the possibility to plan ships when they come into the harbours then we have Airbus they use it for a 3d wing analytics so that means this is JavaFX 3d so they get the data out of their supercomputers and then they do the analyzation in in the job of X desktop application and then there is a yeah this is just a customer relation management system from Switzerland I don't really know a lot about that because I just got the screenshot from a guy this is used GSI heavy iron beam research in Germany they use it mainly because of the graphic capabilities so they analyzed the iron beam and it accelerates and then do all kinds of analysis on this stuff oh and that was just last week in in San Francisco someone used my library to monitor the thousand 60 PI cluster and yeah that was quite fun so that was also desktop application then we have mobile this is stuff that I have found from gluon so these are all mobile applications written in Java effects and it's interesting to see because just from the from the view you can't say if it's Java or if it's native some of this stuff or if it's an Android application or whatever so you see you can do 3d it has all these sketches and things and yeah on the right side this is again my library I just used that because I will also use it in the demo we have a map view and and stuff like that we have this game you might know it and this game is also available in the App Store and the Google Play Store so and it's a Java FEX application that you can just install on your phone and it's it if you play it you don't really feel if it's Java effects of its native right to run Java FX on mobile device you need to some stuff from Glu on mainly an IDE plugin for one of the IDs and then you start a new gluon project and that's it and then you are good to go and then you can compile it and it's it reminded me yesterday in the flutter talk a little bit on that because what they do is you have the main shared code that is for the whole application mm-hmm if you start that it's a desktop application then if you compile it down for let's say for an Android device it will be the desktop code running on an Android device if you need something special for Android let's say you need two different UI you put all the UI code that is for Android in the Android folder you can put desktop stuff in the desktop embedded and so on so for example if you have a specific CSS file for iOS then you put it here for n right there and then you can compile it in one step and then you get a native Android application and native iOS application and embedded stuff that runs on a Raspberry Pi for example or on devices and a desktop application so if we go to web this is just because this is my my dashboard that I use at home mm-hmm this is JavaFX running in the browser there's the URL is even there I should hide it but now it's in the video so it's possible and I I will show you how to do it there's another application for a company in the UK they use Java FX in the browser - for calculating contracts related to energy devices like monitors and that kind of stuff there are some screenshots of that one so the requirements for je Pro for example you just need a greater task or a maven dependency to do it that's all so that means you don't have to do any modification to your code you can really just add this maven stuff your own stuff or that maven stuff and then you run the task there is a task je probe mm-hmm and then it can create yeah it can run on the on the server for example which is quite interesting and this is because I told you they they run Java effects on the browser on the on the server and then split at the rendering level and then transformer to SVG and so you have SVG which is how to accelerate in the browser which is quite nice yes know what you do is what I I run it on my own server so I just started on the server side that's all oh that's a good question I never did that because I just used that for playing around with that stuff we you need a it's just to show what's possible unfortunately I have no idea how to use it really in production but I know someone the guy who did it for the UK thing he they they somehow should deploy it but I don't know how they do it yeah I guess so yeah yeah yeah wait you can that's true you can create an application there is a greater task to do that but I never used that because I just started from greater in on my machine but yes there is something that builds like a self-contained app you can just start then yeah and deploy so let me show you when I run it first of all I hope I can run it because I'm running on OS 10 catallena doesn't really like me oh it works that's good it's a little bit slow so this is really live from my office and that's now the desktop application so let's go and start you're in Jaipur run and now I start the web application it takes a couple of seconds to start it all right here we go and then I go to local host there it is and there's the same thing running in the browser and it's okay I hate IntelliJ for that this is really terrible and that's what I would like to see this one so so we have the native app and we have a web app and they're interesting part is that you see they are in sync and if I switch on the light at home which might be a bad idea at that time but it's okay I switch it on here and it's you see that it's directly also in the browser and if I switch it off in the browser then it will go off there it also have has touched the port so I can for example press one icon then it will show me the the graph and all that so and the same thing I can run on my mobile phone and because we have a quite good internet connection here I can start it here and then you see I have the dashboard on my phone if I switch it on here we should see you see it goes on everywhere which is and in detects if I rotate it it rejects detects the rotation and all that I can push it here and it will open the stuff so it has all these support that you have in principle this is a standard Java FX application just running in the browser it doesn't come with all the features yet because what we miss is the canvas node which is a specific node in Java effects but they are working on that and then I saw a running prototype already and then a Java one there was a good question what about the webview because Java FX has a webview and how will you use a webview in the web right well they found a way to do that you just use the native the browser so you can do it so it will work so for example you could put in Google Maps here and the JavaFX application and it would work they have a specific key where you can detect if the application runs on the web or if it runs on the desktop so if it detects it runs on the web then you can exchange the user webview with this specific view for the browser so but it's possible to use java facts in the browser and i think this is it's not too bad i mean it resizes and and all that it's not that very snappy but at least it's possible and for some applications it might be nice not for everything but that's the reason why I choose a dashboard because that was the main idea it's very often that you have applications that say in a bank or an insurance company and then it's like it's a form application you have to type in all the data and all that stuff but then there are the managers and they say oh I would like to see a dashboard that I can show in the management meeting on my iPad right because it's fancy you can do with J Pro you can just create a special let's say application just for the dashboard and then this guy can just open the stuff and on his iPad and show the same and it's the same code you just tested on your desktop machine on your test server or whatever and it will work and this is Catalina so don't care about this alright so that means we saw I don't have a running demo on my device for I have one but it's not there yet because what they do at do on these days they use gray VM to create really native applications so it's not bundled with JVM anymore but it's a binary image that runs on the device and that means the applications get much more smaller than then if you bundle the whole JDK with it but I have not running demo so in the end if you take it into account you as a developers then it won't die hopefully and with this I they say thanks and I hope I I don't know what more time do we have do we still have time yeah ok so if there are any questions and I'm trying to answer them if not feel free to leave thanks for attending [Applause] excel sheet like things yeah so we are always asked for can we get excel in your application right so no you can't yeah so this is that's what mainly insurance companies and these guys they use Excel a lot and then they when they hear that we create a software for them they also can we have that and they say part of that not really I mean Excel is like you can do everything so no there's no possibility you can create table views and they work but it starts with that you would like to have a fixed column or something like this in JavaFX this is terrible you can do but it's not fun and so yeah that's really the table view is really not that nice in Java effects that's what I mean table you control don't know I will never do one yeah you can't create one I don't think so and to be honest this wing node really sucks it's it's yeah what they do at least that's how far I know they render the swing content in bitmaps and then put them on the screen which is you can imagine not very performant so I try to use my own swing library in the JavaFX application and it's really slow if you have animated pointers in them needles then it's really like it's not fun the rendering is not not good and there was a better approach we had two guys Roman kenka and another one they did something in the beginning of JavaFX and they did it on their own and that was much better and faster than the swing no that we know have unfortunately they never continued with this project yes mariota exactly I don't know I just I did a demo at a conference these days about that and I showed it was a swing application and it was a JavaFX application and then it's being inside of JavaFX using their trick and it was really fast so you couldn't tell the difference but this being note that was implemented to Oracle that's it's really not that nice so if you rely on swing note then unfortunately mmm I think it won't run on it won't April but all the rest should work so it's at least they are working on that it's a small company but I like the idea I mean it's for for specific use cases it's great not for everything so I don't want to run a huge gesture application in the browser but parts of it why not like dashboards or charts or something yeah then that's absolutely possible okay anything else no good then enjoy the rest of the day

Channel: Devoxx

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Id: M1NszZ_K2yk

Length: 46min 38sec (2798 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 31 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/jpl75]

I like Java on desktop. It's still far better for cross-platform UIs than many other alternatives, particularly anything browser-based like Electron.

[u/GabrielBB03]

I actually like Java FX

[u/nonzero_]

The case about hype-driven development is definitely true. Let the requirements decide.. an SPA is not always necessary.

[u/Turboslak]

He also talks about JavaFX on mobile at some point and just shows how they look, which gives a positive but misleading impression. I've tried using javafx on Android with the Gluon tools; it's horrible! Even the simplest UI stutters and doesn't have a native feeling.

[u/sylsau]

Great talk with honest pros and cons.

[u/javasuns]

I have been using JavaFX on iOS for a while through the use of RoboVM. The performance is quite good, almost identical as native apps on iPhone 6s and upward. Also, I believe that performance would become as native on both iOS and Android with the upcoming GraalVM

[u/mars-dev]

"Just would to mention that @GluonHQ Substrate performance is really great...nearly no difference to native...great job"

https://twitter.com/hansolo_/status/1213893101955244039