James Kearny Shares His Conversion Story - From Yale to Faith and Battles with the Demonic

hey there folks I'm excited uh because I have a new friend uh some of you heard me talk about this when John's murak and I had our Odyssey in Seattle in the Pacific Northwest uh we didn't have plans on that Saturday night and uh we were contacted by our new friend Andrew McDermott from The Discovery Institute said hey if you uh you guys want to come I'll get some pastors together and we can have dinner someplace and uh we um we went to Buca di Beppo an Italian chain restaurant that I have mixed feelings about and when I arrived there I met a number of people uh just delightful people but one of them uh the Reverend Dr James Carney was absolutely different why because uh he claimed at some point in the conversation to be a Yale graduate I said what I'm in the Pacific Northwest with some pastors they're all extremely bearded uh this clean-shaven man looks kind of like he might have graduated from Yale and son of a gun we got into a conversation and it gets uh more interesting we are uh I had to pause my clock what what's her time right now okay here's the problem I can hear you guys upstairs every word and I thought I better tell you now because I can't think when I hear you talking normally of course I don't hear you commenting or anything like that but for some reason John and uh sounds like Kelsey are up there I don't know but uh so you have to turn that off otherwise I'll go I'll go mad because I don't want to hear voices in my head other than my guest and also because I forgot I lost track of the time so what was our time wait wait what is what one minute and a half I had it on silence mode but it was so you're telling me I've got nine minutes in this segment left okay oh yeah oh can we go so folks without further Ado my new friend the Reverend Dr James Carney as an Art Carney from The Honeymooners James welcome that's so good to be here and it's so good to have a new friend in you Eric I've wanted to meet you for years well you're you're very kind uh and flattering thank you for saying that but I have to tell you you know when we got to talking that night at that hackneyed cliche of a restaurant I'm sorry I was so embarrassed I meant delightful uh mockery of the Italian people um I you said a few things and I thought you know when you said you graduated Yale in 79 I thought whoa like what like what are you what are you doing here who are you and you start telling your story and I thought I want you to tell that story on my program um and how you got involved in Deliverance Ministry and the Demonic completely unexpected uh crazy stuff so you know where where do we uh where do we start James where did you grow up let's start there uh well I uh I'm a product of the Navy so my dad my grandfather my great-grandfather in fact my great great grandfather came to Seattle In 1855 with a distress call to help Seattle in terms of their first battle of Seattle against the Local Natives that were trying to Massacre the city so this was not always this was not the Mariners this was the actual people of Seattle yeah and and in looking at it I actually found they had a lot of reasons to be angry but that's another story The Local Natives had a reason to be angry or the Seattle people who were were infiltrating that part of the world well after a few of them were massacred they had reason to be angry but I think that a lot of the treaties that were established Seattle uh were immensely unfair and uh so there was a lot of local anger yeah and that that was like isolated to Seattle uh no it's an American story oh it's horrifying it's horrifying but um but okay so but I found out that I was raised in the Navy so I was actually born in the island of Malta right oh go on did a snake affix itself to your hand when you went to reach for the firewood come on did it happen it didn't happen you were born on the island of Malta where Paul was Shipwrecked 2000 years ago yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so you were born in the island of Malta so you can't become president of the United States but uh keep going that's a you're I think you're the first person on this program who's been born on the island of Malta so we Robin I think is gonna he's gonna send you a check or a teddy bear or some some kind of gift well I asked my mother if I could become a citizen of Malton she said sure but you'd have to go live there and that'd be worse than anything I could do to you so wait a minute so how long so so you were born there so you obviously you don't remember living there but your mother was not a fan of uh of living in Malta for whatever reason no no but here here's here's the funny thing the reason I was born in Malta is because of the Maltese postmaster I think the reason you were born in Malta was because it's where your mother was at the time well it was but she came to Malta pregnant with my sister had my sister sent for birth control but Catholic being a Catholic country so uh it was intercepted by the postmaster he called her into the office and gave with the package of her whatever in back of him opened gave her a lecture on the evils of birth control she's mortified right this little 20 year old something from America in the 50s she goes and then asks for some more birth control from through the Navy but before it came that uh that's I mean that is absolutely level you may you kind of when you said it you said my mother came to Malta pregnant with my sister and I thought you were going to say and oddly enough gave birth to me instead and I was going to say I don't believe that story that's a lie but in the Europe but you want wow I love this that that's actually that's pretty that's pretty amazing uh Hey listen I'm one of those evangelicals that agrees with the Catholics on all that stuff but we don't have time to get into that okay so you're born in Malta where did you go from there so uh to Connecticut because my dad was in submarines through London then down to Newport News because he goes picked by Rick over to being part of the nuclear program so he was a commanding officer of the James Madison you say he was picked by rickover yeah as an admiral rickover yeah the word Admiral because not everyone in the non-naval world is you know going to pick up right Dad on oh yeah Admiral rickover um kind of a famous Admiral um so your father's picked to work in the nuclear submarine program first in the New London Groton area and then down in Newport News Virginia he had to we went to Washington DC where he went to nuclear power school and uh nuclear power school they have a school yeah there's one there and one in Idaho okay my dad said it just about killed him uh because it was hard going to new going to nuclear power school just about killed him that's why that's why I didn't go okay keep going all right so but they ended up in Charleston where they uh were developing the Polaris missiles and then Charleston South Carolina they were developing Polaris missiles a little Super Eight uh movie Taken of a missile taking off because he was in another submarine accompanying some test fires um and then brought it home we showed us home movies of missiles going off it was completely illegal wow unbelievable we thought it was super cool and this is one of the early 60s this is the 60s yeah yeah holy guacamole um okay so what happened was he's he's gone all the time right because they're all underwater and they're going around keeping the world safe you know in terms of the the Cold War but he was gone all the time and and uh he ended up getting out uh he actually broke his neck water skiing um and behind a submarine no I was driving the boat oh uh so just a little kid and he hit a sand bar and of course we were laughing at him that he got his hair wet but he ended up having to go to the hospital but during the 10 weeks in a in a striker frame he had time to think and uh in God's Providence uh because he was a good Catholic uh he took a Harvard School of Business course and got interested in business and got out of the Navy and then moved us to Atlanta where he became a stockbroker and a successful former military guy which is basically a lazy shiftless man is what you're trying to tell us I am so proud of my dad holy cow that's a that's kind of amazing okay so where do you where are you now where do you end up now okay so uh so then you know he's really you know wanting me to Advance he puts me to prep school go to Yale um but the big the big and then I go to Yale and have a great time at Yale because he went to Yale too so he was super excited about that um I didn't want to go because it looked like everybody was working too hard uh which they were but and as you know but it was the 70s so I also found how to not just work hard but to play hard um that's that's the problem that's the problem that's the problem um and so I um this this leads more into my testimony if I could talk a little bit about that try to avoid the subject of God on my program if you don't mind if you don't mind try to try to walk around yeah I was a good timing Catholic you know as my mother said he said no one had a better time at Yale than GM your mother and uh your mother has has a Charleston accent what's that where where is she from actually she doesn't but it just sounds better when you give it a Southern accent it's a Malta accent okay so so you go to Yale and you are a uh yeah I mean you're you're a good guy but you think of yourself as a Catholic you are a Catholic but you're not a good Catholic you're not walking with God therefore you're doing what people do uh in universities and when we come back we're going to hear the rest of the story this is some crazy stuff folks it involves the whiffin poofs not joking don't go away welcome back folks I'm talking to my fellow yalie uh the Reverend Dr James Carney uh who is a PC USA Pastor we're going to get into some pretty amazing stuff trust me on this but we are currently talking about uh you James you're at Yale you consider yourself a Catholic but you're not really serious about your faith and uh you're doing what what people do uh this is the the 70s and uh I assume that includes drinking and various drugs how did you get involved in the whiffin poofs and tell my audience so I don't have to what the whiffin poofs are okay so um I was a guy who in high school found himself not in sports but in theater and in singing and did quite a bit of singing and travel and where what prep school did you go to so it was uh the Westminster school for boees in Atlanta where Boaz Atlanta that was the Westminster school for girls but they were on I have my my friend one of my best friends from Yale who I had a long conversation with on the phone literally yesterday Heat when went to the Westminster school oh no no no and I've actually spoken at the Westminster school really was in Atlanta yeah okay so you went to Western School boys you got involved not in sports but in because you're you're kind of a tall thinner guy you can evolved in theater and singing and uh and piano all of that so I was an Arts guy and uh my best friend wanted to go to Yale and so I went with him there if it was a little group of us that went up there so I got involved with um the singing group scene and so Yale has this huge informal acapella singing group scene and uh so I was first in the sobs the Society of Orpheus and Bacchus right and then um uh the Whip and poofs is a all male group or it used to be until a couple years ago well let me just say I was in two musicals at Yale so I sang at Yale and on the strength of My Singing performance uh in in one of the musicals I think it was 1776 put on Calhoun College you went to Calhoun I can't believe we're both from Calhoun Eric the thing that you're not realizing here is as much as you're looking at me and going what happened how did you come to Christ I'm looking back at you and going how in the world did this guy how did Yale was formed at Yale came to Christ become a Christian and I'm looking at you think ahead of that jerk become a Christian what a jerk and how did he become a Christian no but seriously it's kind of funny I shared with you a vision that God gave me about the Calhoun Courtyard and it is yes a lot of crazy things that's why when I met you is exciting but so we we need to explain uh to to the audience that at Yale there are all these acapella singing groups uh mostly male or they start out male now they're co-ed but uh I was uh invited to be in one of them on the strength of my uh performance in 1776 as John Hancock and and I was involved to be in the baker's dozen and I I declined I don't know why but the ultimate would be to be invited as a senior because it's just a one-year gig to be invited to be a member of the elite the illustrious whiffenpoofs of Yale now when did they start what year did the whiffenpoofs start whiffing poofing I think is the verb yeah that's what my grandfather said he used to call it all that whiffing and poofin um so they started in 1909 at Maurice Tavern so to the tables down at Maurice to the place where Louis dwells to the dear old Temple Bar we love so well so they have the drinking song and they would meet every Monday night and drink and sing yes and Maury's uh Maury's uh is a Yale institution and they yeah so they so they started in 1909 this Elite group and they were I mean in previous years when when people cared about you know the ivy league and Ivy League football and all that kind of stuff they were a very big deal but still so so it's the late 70s you are chosen to be a whiffenpoof I was it was a really great honor because there was all these different undergraduate groups the sobs the baker's dozen the spizz wings you know the Dukes men all these different groups and and the the height was to be one of these members of this group there were just 14 guys just a single uh just a single year and you were singing We sang so much we started uh we started our first concert after three days we went to a cocktail party in Chatham Massachusetts where Teddy Kennedy was at right you know Charles Schultz I mean these this was sort of the was he conscious at the time now Charles Schultz was a wonderful Christian but you got to be clear the women who's traveled literally all over the world in your senior year if you were a chosen to be a whiffenpoof you traveled all around the world all around wearing uh white tie and Tails big deal stuff I did in fact uh one one day I was in Monaco uh and had gotten a shirt from Bangkok that was red put it in with my whites and it turned them all pink right so I'm and I'm not in white tying Tails I'm in pink eye entails part of the poofs right so go bigger the whole thing's kind of coming together that night we had dinner with Princess Grace of Monaco oh who did it don't make a big deal out of it most people here have had dinner with Princess Grace and Monica right guys are you kidding you had printer with Princess Grace in 1979 and talked with her it was a couple years before she died and I was really interested in being an actor and breaking into the movies and asked her how to break into the movies of course she was highly cultured and gave a very funny story of of why she never gave advice to aspiring actors but it was uh I was just sitting there in my pink tie and Tails she never entails talking to Princess Grace formerly known as Grace Kelly um well we uh I think we have to go to a break we'll be right back folks plenty more you're not going to believe it uh we haven't yet transitioned to the Demonic uh talking to James Carney spelled k-e-a-r-n-y don't go away folks welcome back talking to James Carney but it's spelled k-e-a-r-n-y um okay so you're a member of the illustrious whiffenpoofs at Yale 1979 what happens uh that would interest us beyond the fact that you get to do this well yeah I I came to I came to Christ and it's not that I came to Christ I I was a sincere Catholic when I went through Yale and I loved God and I read my Bible I used to go to the rectory I was on the parish council but I used to drink with my priest he was interested in being kind of a buddy and I didn't need a buddy I needed a pastor I needed a priest so I let it double life and I I was really beneath all the the high living and the jokes and everything I was conflicted um and my senior year with the whiffs the the we each had a position within the group and the guy who had the position called the nadir which you know means the lowest point he was the group drunk and that was his position was to drink more than anyone else the bibulus false Staffing figure yes well what happened the summer before uh our senior year he came to Christ and he became as big a spiritful Christian as he had been a high living drunk as he had been filled with other Spirits is really the sentence you were looking at exactly so he filled himself for the Holy Spirit and this guy came on like gangbusters I mean and he was talking about Jesus and just cutting a swath through the group I was just gonna imagine that at a place like you know Yale especially at the whiffenpoofs they didn't take kindly to this kind of stuff that that cuts rather dramatically against the grain of uh hypers secular cynical Yale yeah you're you're breaking rank wow and so he comes in and totally tease me off because I'm convicted right I have the position of the cook which means I just do meals my best friend had was the position of the apothecary which you can imagine his job in the whipping poofs right he's just giving you like jars of like rainbows Benny's black beauties is that what we're talking about Quaaludes what are we talking about Dr Feelgood you can fill in the blank um I mean it's fascinating that you actually had that that the weapon poops actually have these roles that they assign you're supposed to be singing but it's it's like a creepy kind of fraternity guys that are all 21 so you can imagine you know anyway so he the the Lord starts working on him my friend Rob and he is like not one and he doesn't want to have anything to do with Christ wait a minute so the guy who came to Faith the summer before senior year what was his name his name was Jim Jim yent okay but he was a nadir no so Jim comes into senior year and it's like having tenure they can't kick him out because he is officially a wiffin poop so he comes in he brings Jesus in and your friend the Apothecary you just mentioned something starts to happen with him so yeah start to stir in him and he named Rob and he is he is as I was kind of a go for it guy right he was even more and and and we were we were like this we ran together all senior year well and I remember we actually went to a in the middle of the year we went to a mass led by a charismatic priest Ralph de norio who had a Healing Ministry right and I don't know why we went but we were there and it was one of these things full Catholic mass and then he was calling out healing you know well this is I mean we should be clear in case people aren't tracking in 1979 was really the height of the charismatic movement which which which bled over into every denomination so um there was the Catholic Charismatic movement but but it was in the Episcopal Church Saint Paul's Darien uh which was uh Terry Fulham so so this was going on all kinds of places and this comes right out of the Jesus movement um the Jesus Revolution uh the Jesus people so this was really kind of Revival happening in a way in America and so you're talking about a a piece of that exactly right that's exactly right and that's so important because we forget that lutherans and Catholics and Presbyterians and Baptists were all getting revived by the Holy Spirit it wasn't the Pentecostals which tend to be more of a blue collar movement this was all your white collar denominations right getting baptized speaking and healing anyway we're in the car after the mass and my friend Rob looks at me and he goes Jim because I was called Jim back then he said I could never be a Christian like you and I said what do you mean he said If Ever I was to become a Christian I'd have to do it all the way and he had me dead to rights but wait a minute that's he didn't realize he was he didn't mean it to cut you but he's kind of saying like I couldn't be a a Christian one who has one foot in the world and one foot in the church if I were to do it I would have to do it all the way and that was God speaking to you through your friend inadvertently yes and it and he he was my guy right so there was nowhere to hide I couldn't deflect and the Holy Spirit just nailed me right dead set I mean this and I knew he was true and it and it stuck in me well fast forward to May we're at the beginning of our world tour we graduated had gone all over the place but now we were actually starting we got a plane ticket on Pan Am that said as long as you just go in One Direction you can go as far as you want you know so meaning it's around the world ticket and you can go anywhere you wanted wow isn't that fun I wish Pan Am I wish Pan Am was still a thing but okay so so now and so at the end of the year you go on your world tour go ahead World Tour so first stop is on the west coast California I'm standing up by the pool and a friend of mine David comes up to me and he goes did you hear that Rob got saved and I said what he said yeah uh Jim yet the the Nader the crazy guy it's where he lived they had a Bible study and Rob repented and he got saved and at that point I went I'm going to repent too I said I cannot have Rob go anywhere where I can't go so I went back and I I reconvened the prayer group it was this little group of charismatic moms you know it was 70s Housewives and mumus and hairdos and we uh we all went to their house and I told them look I want to do exactly what Rob did and they went okay and they were all excited so we we had a Bible study it was really nice and I said I'm going to put my chair in the middle I want you to lay hands on me I'm going to repent and I want you to pray for me and they did I I still can't believe that three whiffenpoofs came to radical faith in Jesus radical faith in the year that their woofing poofs while they're yeah this is this is insane that's why I want to have you on the program and we're just getting started we'll be right back talking to James Carney spelled k-e-a-r-n-y welcome back folks uh I'm talking to my new friend James Carney so James you're at Yale senior year your woofing poof two of your the least likely members is what God always does become born-again Believers very radically while they're whiffing poofs that's simply not done ladies and gentlemen and then you decide you want it that you can't hang you can't hold back anymore so you have this born-again experience as you've begun the world tour you are you're in California when this occurs right so so we we sing all up and down the the California coast go to the Bohemian Club in San Francisco and you know sing for Stanford with the mendicants right because every Ivy League school has their own into you know acapella group but then we get on a plane to go to Japan right so we're on the plane big 747 and I'm sitting next to uh my friend uh John DeLuise and uh and I I he's also been born again this year in the group wait a minute I said there's a fourth member there's a fourth member who has been born again in the whiffenpoofs who are only there are only 14 of you and four whiffenpoofs in the 79 class are born again yeah there was a fifth too uh Rick Westerfield who was the music director of the group I know that I know that name somehow I know the name Rick Westerfield I must have met him someplace uh in later he was yeah he's a he went on to have quite a story um career in music as an orchestral conductor was a uh Leonard Bernstein Protege and has led numbers orchestras he's really smart and really talented he's he's the successful member of the group aha um anyway so we're so I'm sitting next to Don uh John de Louise I you know you know him because his uncle was Dom Delux there's nobody I love more than Dom DeLuise Don villuise is the Pinnacle I it it destroys me that I never got to meet him people need to watch the movie Fatso that's unbelievable but like anything he did Fatso is directed by Anne Bancroft who also produced The Elephant Man which is a Christian film we don't have time for this so your friend who's the nephew would be great Dom DeLuise while he was working on the movie he introduced me on the when he was working at Paramount Studios to Dom DeLuise when he was working on Fatso we actually went into the studio you you were on the set of fat cell no they were in the uh in the booth when they were correcting sound okay that's just too much for me I need a moment I need him I need a moment I need to go see the movie too I never saw oh Fatso is so it's so sweet and Charming I mean it really it's insane it's insane so you met deloise while he was working on Fatso I'm so jealous now I'm gonna have to repent I'm gonna after but I don't have time right now go ahead all right so I I we're sitting next to each other on the plane and I go John I hear you guys speak in tongues he goes yeah we do I said well how's that work because when you just you just do it and I go what do you mean I said because I was waiting for lightning to strike right and like I would say like the Jerry Mahoney doll God was gonna the Holy Spirit would put his hand up your back and start moving your mouth he said no you just do it yourself and step out and I said okay because why don't you try it I was like all right so I just started whispering in his ear and he goes yeah you're doing it I said I am he goes yeah and then they serve the meal and watched the movie and we got to Japan that's how I got to get the tongue wait a minute so seven feet above the surface of the planet traveling 600 miles an hour you receive the gift of tongues I've never heard without any Fanfare without any striving without any of you know all the histrionics it was just God just saying yeah you want it here you go uh you know what we're gonna go to a break folks we've got plenty more there is plenty more to this story don't go away hey folks talking to my new friend James Carney uh graduate Yale in 79 and we just met very recently in Seattle um we're hearing your testimony of coming to Faith baptism the Holy Spirit above the Pacific that's a new one and um you eventually get involved in Deliverance dealing with the Demonic I want to get to that because that's a huge topic uh for me and should be for everybody because it's real but so okay what happens now on this world tour with the whiffenpoofs five of you are born again I still can't get over this because the weapon moves are not you know they're not famous for their faith no if if you would if you know the Simpsons um the character Montgomery Burns who was the head of the nuclear plant it would be if he were in a singing group yeah right that's it's so old and so corny and that's the good part I know so you and I I could tell you stories for days but I I think let's let's talk a little bit about the Demonic if that's okay well I mean I just wanna if you have a few stories uh about uh you know what happened subsequently went to yeah and then we can transition to the the so-called demonic of course we don't mean that literally folks we're sophisticated the Alias go ahead so so actually in the middle of the tour I'm in London um and we're at this this at that point I've been going to so many parties um and have been living such a high life that I was just done but we had a break we had a three-day break and I decided to go on a fast I've never fasted before this is my very first time and I say oh I got three days before our next gig which was in Spoleto Italy and uh I said well gosh um Assisi is right next to Spoleto and being a good Catholic I was like that's where Saint Francis is from I'll go on a fast and I'll go to Assisi so I get on a train in London you know and just start traveling and not eating and I'm getting super Spacey but I go to a CZ and I have no money I have no language and uh I I remember I didn't know what to do and at this point I was about two days into my fast and I was a little spacey I got on a bus to go up to the to the city the medieval city with and I didn't even know how I was going to pay for the bus and I'm looking at the sunset and there's an American priest from Ohio who says you know nice view strikes up a conversation he ends up taking me under his wing finding me a place to live and then the next day gives me a biography of Saint Francis and I wander up to the top of the hill reading the biography and that's where I received my call for my entire life um was it the biography by Chesterton or another biography you know I don't remember but I remember I know well Chester I love chestertons I love Chesterton because he said the key to Saint Francis is that his relationship with God is a love story and I love Texas people talk about all this different stuff but they forget what is the obvious but you so wait so you you're on a three-day fast you're reading about Saint Francis in Assisi and God calls you into Ministry is that what happens to I tell us please yeah he said that he said called me to do two things one um he said to forsake your father and to leave him because I'm your heavenly father which is what Saint Francis did he when he received his call um he actually got told him he he broke from his father and said I you're no longer my father I have only my Father in heaven so it was a very strong call to say look you've been living a life with a particular set of worldly values you need to let that go and it's not just that but Saint Francis father was very wealthy and so he was a shoeing uh that wealth the trappings of that wealth and the honor that went with being the son of this father and it's pretty similar in your case your father was actually obviously a big deal and he was and he was wealthy well and Saint Francis was also a singer he put together a harlequin outfit and had a medieval Loot and would lead his guys through the city at two in the morning singing at the top of their lungs like medieval songs because he was this bombivant who loved to sing I actually I did not know that aspect of Saint Francis that's amazing interesting and so it was really resonating with me as someone from a wealthy privileged middle class background was being told to to turn your back on that leave it and follow me so that was the first the second was to go and rebuild my house for it has fallen into ruin so that was the call on Saint francis's life from God to rebuild my house which is the church which was in a state of corruption and obviously needed a little Reformation small R and um that's God's call on Saint Francis which he spent his life doing but somehow the Lord was communicating this to you as well about what you needed to do it's helped to rebuild his house that's exactly right and and that was the moment um that I said this is so so as a whiffenpoof right I not only come to Christ get Spirit-filled uh speak in tongues start moving doing Bible studies around the world I receive my call my lifelong call to you know this is this is the reason I was created was to be in in the footsteps of Saint Francis now of course you have to be very careful because he was a great saint but to do the same to rebuild the church because the church nowadays is in the very same state and as a PC USA Pastor um not to put to find a point on it that's a denomination in need of reform and so when I get troubled about my denomination and the heresy that they've strayed into I realize I'm probably exactly where I need to be well some people are called to stay there and to to fight and some people are called to get the heck out of Dodge because um you need to go where where God wants you to go but so you um so your story I mean I want to get into the to what's happened to you fairly recently this uh entry into the ministry dealing with the Demonic but uh in between so this is still you know we're still in 1979 here you what do you do do you decide to uh go into the ministry go to a seminary uh I know that you did a carpentry literally to pay the bills you were an actor how did this play out over the next number of years um well even though it seemed rather chaotic at the time uh it was actually very simple uh I I returned to the United States and I remember going to my Catholic priest at Yale and telling him about this newfound faith and he gave the absolute worst response ever he was bemused he saw it as a youthful enthusiasm that I would soon get over it's like yeah don't worry you'll get over you'll become like a cynical deadbeat like me I hope otherwise I'm gonna you're gonna make me feel bad about my cynicism it's actually heartbreaking I mean you have to joke but it's heartbreaking it is because the Catholic church is full of saints but like any institution it's also full of its Hypocrites and or it's whatever you know compromised but I went home and I okay so I had a I was going to be an actor in New York City and I had the whole thing set up I had a guy Fred Koch who was of the Koch brothers who was all set to finance me I had a job at the Vivian Beaumont Center in Lincoln Center I was and I went home to say goodbye so when I I finished my tour that's what I was going to do interview to New York came down to Atlanta to pack up but I told my mom and dad I said look I've recently had this experience of recommittal to Christ I want to pray about it now for them as American Catholics this was New You Prayed at Grace or priest prayed in Mass but you didn't but they were like and what do you say okay but I so I put this whole plan before God and I said I this is what I want to do I want to go to New York I want to receive Fred's help I want to be an actor what do you think and have you ever heard of the term Bible roulette uh sure we've all played it yeah right so I played it because I wasn't very familiar with the Bible so I felt there was a scripture so I just I just peeled my Bible back on it put my finger down I looked it was Isaiah 30 it said woe to the rebellious children declares the Lord that make plans without consulting me Ah that's a coincidence I would have become an actor who set out to go to Egypt to seek Pharaoh's help to make a league with people that are not of my spirit okay this is heavy stuff we'll be right back plenty more with James Carney talking to my new friend James Carney okay so you asked God uh yeah do should I be an actor or whatever and you get this pretty heavy-handed message maybe not yeah he said he was my Catcher in the Rye he was saying stop don't you're good you're heading towards the cliff these people will not you will not receive shame you will not receive help nor profit but only shame disgrace and humiliation so I said okay I won't okay I won't go what do I do and I looked down and the scripture came off the page and said You shall see you shall hear a word behind you saying this is the way walking it whether you turn to the right or turn to the left so it was come follow me this is that simple so well practically speaking what did you do my parents asked me the same question when I had to come home and tell them that their Golden Boy yeah who was doing all the things right that they could go to the cocktail parties and talk about Pride right um suddenly was taking this very uh sharp turn away from the successful goals that they had groomed me to pursue yeah so the first question was where are you going to live I said I don't know could I live in my room that's not a good answer the second was so how are you going to earn money and I said I don't know so I looked into a newspaper remember newspapers when they had one ads back in the day not reading any bells but go ahead that's way before we used to do it old school I was born in in 2001. go ahead so what does an out-of-work actor do right yeah I had a little stage carpentry I ended up literally getting a job as a carpenter's helper rebuilding homes of poor people in Atlanta so suddenly this whole call to go and rebuild my house was getting very um literal overly literal almost over almost fundamentalist uh I was like no this is a nice metaphor I got the metaphor so what's the next schooling that I take and and God was like you know what you've had a lot of schooling in this particular sort of way I have a whole different school I'm going to take you to right and this was in 1979 and I remember after about six months of working as a carpenter among the poor thinking okay God I've got it I I I understand what you're trying to do and I the answer I got back was you got it up here I want you to get it in here and not only there I want you to get in your guts in fact so I was a carpenter on from 1979 until 1994. carpentry for 15 years I assume you were also doing some kind of ministry uh I was but I was a minister you know as a guy you know helping the pastor you know being an elder in the church being a deacon you were serious about your faith but you were you were not making your house making but uh that's that's that's extraordinary so you were so serious about your faith that you were willing to be a carpenter with a Yale degree and all these uh uh chances and things because you believe that was God's call in your life and you followed uh at what point did you were you married during this time yes yeah so I got married we had our first three kids on welfare in fact because that's how much money I was making my parents didn't know what to say they were horrified I mean they they really they really had a hard time um well you can't really blame them it's uh no we don't I look back and I have so much sympathy for them you're right sure well so but you did get married and uh you're doing lay ministry as we call it right and at what point do you decide to go into you know actual I don't know I was going to say professional Ministry official Ministry at what point does that happen well it's interesting that you asked that question because I kept trying to get into Ministry and God kept saying you know I appreciate your enthusiasm not yet so I I so I I mean first I try to be a Catholic priest right and I was like because I was Catholic I was like well that's what I'm going to do and that's the sacrifice and the Lord said no not yet then later in my mid-20s later 20s I said okay I'm gonna go to Seminary and God said no I don't want you to go to Seminary you're not ready this is the crazy thing I want you to go to acting school so that's when I went to acting school continuing to work as a carpenter because that's the only way that I could support myself but actually he stopped me from going to Seminary and sent me to acting school and that's why I got to Seattle into the Capitol Hill Neighborhood okay this is interesting and of course there are lots of people listening to this thinking what do you mean God told you what are you nuts and we don't have time to get into that right now that's complicated but uh we're gonna just take your word for it and so you now go to Seattle you feel God has led you to acting school after all these years after keeping you out of you know the Vivian Beaumont theater in New York and okay so you go to acting school and how does that go um it was it was really really hard okay here's something that's actually kind of personal is is it okay if I get personal for a second of course you can get personal get personal okay person my entire life fell apart my entire life fell apart at acting school and this is what happened as as a Christian um coming out of Yale I tried to be a Christian like Saint Francis meaning that I was trying to be the most successful and important and powerful Christian ever and in doing that I had really built a life of shoulds this is what I should be like this is the way I should act this is this is what it means to really follow Jesus and going to acting school was and it was all well intended but going to acting school was the first time I had ever really done something because I wanted to and that it was it was an expression of my heart and in being with the other actors I said I feel like I finally found the cage at the zoo where everyone looks like me right I mean it was and so I was getting deep and and with acting I was going to places that in my good Christian Life I wasn't allowed to go but were real rage anger lust jealous you know all that and I found that go what happened is that I was letting my real self out of the clutches of my should self and I wasn't able to put myself back into this nice box and and everything fell apart um and I remember I was going to quit school but I talked to the director and the director said of the school said you know this this is not an uncommon experience for people in acting school he said and you can leave you can do that he said but I encourage you to consider staying and following the process that you are in the midst of to the far end um and it did and so uh in in the midst of this uh everything fell apart in fact I I came there married my marriage fell apart um it all it all went away and I remember um my 30th birthday having a day of prayer and fasting and saying God I've completely blown it I I've tried to be your guy I tried to follow you I tried to obey you I can't do it I am sorry no excuses and I didn't hear anything that day I didn't experience anything but that was the day when everything turned around and God started doing all kinds of wonderful things for me and I'll tell you Eric that's when I first discovered Grace unmerited favor before I I could have told you I understood it but it was only then in the depth of personal failure that I really understood that God loves me not for what I do just because he loves me because he's good and that changed my life well where do you go from this point now so you you uh your marriage has fallen apart spiritually but but what do you do well God introduced me to a a young woman uh who was not Christian she became we actually did a theater piece together a kissing theater piece um on date rape right that's how we met um then she I know I know this doesn't work well at pastors Retreats when they say oh let's talk about how you met your spouse but we uh she ends up having a radical God she we're on Capitol Hill right this is where this is in Seattle in Seattle in Capitol Hill God visits her sovereignly because she was raised in a non-Christian background and and starts revealing scripture to her she has a radical conversion to Christ we end up going to a little Presbyterian church and they disciple us uh we ended up getting married um I was a professional actor in town we started having kids um God's blessing my Ministry this little church everything turned around and only then when I was 37 and I thought I was about at the end of my life right three kids married God says okay now you're ready to go to Seminary so you you you go uh into obviously you become a presbyterian Minister uh when we come back we're gonna leap ahead into when God uh brings you into Ministry uh with the Demonic we call it Deliverance we'll be right back talking to James Carney I'm having a lot of fun talking to James Carney uh James what a story uh so now you're 37 yeah I mean gosh what you've been through and now you decide okay I'm actually gonna go officially into Ministry and become a presbyterian Minister pastor right so yeah so uh I end up going to Seminary uh Presbyterian seminary in Atlanta and what's interesting is that after all my years in carpentry this is 94. I found out I had more in common with the maintenance staff than I did with the students okay I think that's a good thing but continue well it's because working with your hands you develop common sense right if you work with your head you can go all kinds of crazy places but there's something about having to use your head and your hands and physical objects that is a more grounded way of understanding things and I realized that I needed the carpentry because I needed to be grounded I also needed acting school because I needed my false self to Fall to Pieces uh I I say that in acting school because of my false self falling uh my real self emerged um and and what happened is that you can hear that in The Voice people say you can see the soul in the eyes it's we give ourselves away every time we speak and you can hear whether a person is genuine or not according to the tone of their voice it it is a mirror it's an expression of their soul and so I had to go to acting school first because I wasn't ready to go to Seminary because I was fake I mean well and let's be clear God LED you in all these ways and you did follow him and it's a process I did when when do we get to the I want to I want to get because we have a ton of time let's go there right now to the Demonic so you're serving in a world the Presbyterian world where they they look away from the Demonic as though yeah that's for those kooky medieval Catholics but we're sophisticated Presbyterians we don't do that junk did Jesus do it ah maybe uh we don't want to talk about that um what uh I may be exaggerating but how did it happen for you well it happened when in the course of my Ministry I ended up back at the scene of the crime Capitol Hill and God called me to start Capitol Hill Presbyterian Church okay and what I found was the state of that neighborhood right this is where the chop was the Chas you know the Capitol Hill occupational protest this was a neighborhood that if there's a dark Center in the Northwest it's Seattle and if there's a dark Center in Seattle it's the Capitol Hill Neighborhood not to throw it under the bus but just saying that the type of spiritual warfare that was going on there was off the hook addiction aberrant Lifestyles it's the gay neighborhood it says Center of atheism it's also the center of witchcraft and I found that all of the tricks that I had learned and all of the the well-meaning ways of doing Church didn't have enough Firepower to advance the kingdom in this environment uh and so I realized when I looked into scripture I said well there's something about the holy spirit that enabled the early church to thrive in the midst of an environment that was on the one hand more hostile the Jewish leaders and it on the other hand more indifferent which were the Romans and it was the same thing I had a lot of people that were that were indifferent and then you had you know a smattering people that were angry so in my pursuit of the Holy Spirit God uh in led me to a man in Africa uh when I was teaching Pastors in Tanzania who actually had a healing and Deliverance Ministry and uh zebediah uroki and when I found that out I said well can I learn from you and he said yeah I'll teach you so we spend the week we're all day long I'm teaching pastors right and then at night I'm having the seminar from one of my translators on healing physical healing actual physical healing and actual deliverance and it was opening my eyes up in terms of the reality um so at the end of the week I have uh I said well we need to have a lab right right we need to do this what John Wimber said we need to do the stuff we need to know we need to talk about this stuff let's do this stuff let's see she's still in the business of doing the stuff healing and deliverance from demons so what happened well I I had to find a sick person right so I'm looking around for a sick person right and I figured if it if an African got healed that'd be amazing but if an American got healed that'd be a miracle right because as zebediahu said you know we used to say well what if I lay hands on someone and nothing happens and he said oh you Americans that is that that is what you always say you Americans you have faith in your doubts you have to doubt your faith you have faiths you have faith but you doubt your faith okay so then what happened well I found I found that one of my compatriots uh Seattle Pastor was had a backache and he was in pain and at this point he forgot his medication he said dude anything I said can you be a guinea pig he said anything I'm in such pain well long story short turns out it's not an organic problem it's a demon okay and so this is we want to be clear we only got 60 seconds in the segment but sometimes when somebody has a physical ailment it is related to a demonic entity that that is not uncommon at all so that's what's revealed to you in this moment and we get him healed by delivering he chokes it comes out he starts speaking in tongues he has a vision he's completely restored wait a minute wait a minute you you did an exorcism you did a Deliverance of a demon on this man from a presbyterian pastor your Presbyterian Pastor you pray what was the manifestation we've just got seconds left but describe this better because this is well uh yeah and there's a lot to this but uh first you pray to get uh to set first you look at the symptoms and it looked like it was demonic in terms of the the symptomology and that's another whole subject so then we prayed as it as the treatment and then it actually got a demon loose and then as it's rocketing around and choking him wait a minute wait a minute we're going to a break it they're demons rocking around and choking him how about we don't believe this nonsense do we we're sophisticated manhattanites we'll be right back I'm talking to James Carney James so you said you pray for this guy and you now see crazy stuff happen what do you mean when you say a demon is you know shaking loose and starts rocketing around what are you what are you seeing because most people would say that sounds kind of a crazy talk what do you what do you mean um so a part of it is you're having to ask the person what they are experiencing because some of the things you see you'll see tears you'll see yawning you see choking um I mean there's some people with demonic they'll actually do The Exorcist stuff where they begin throwing up or they begin wrestling you uh they'll growl sometimes the demon will come out and talk um I mean it's it's like like that I mean I'm not trying to trying to play dumb I know a lot about this stuff my friend Ken fish on here but I wanna you know so you're doing this for the first time and you're seeing this stuff happen right there with with this man who said I've got a backache right well yeah and um and so it's it's and I have zebadayu there who's leading me in this and and um but see here's the crazy part so my friend gets healed and he's completely restored and and so with demonology with with uh demonic infestation it's a it's a form of healing and what you do is that with that you always look for certain symptoms and then from those symptoms you you make a diagnosis saying okay I think that's this is what we're talking about it's only when you apply the treatment does the diagnosis get confirmed or not right so if it's not a demon then nothing's going to happen but if it is it will it just depends upon what it is that you're dealing with and it's slippery because demons are conscious beings that are trying to avoid being detected so it's it's it takes a little detective work but they're not raising their hands they're not volunteering to leave they're trying to hide so when someone comes to me and say I have a demon it's always the last of my list however this is where it gets crazy and this is actually answering your question so he's restored so I asked zebedayu and my friend to lay hands in me because I want a healing anointing I want to be able to do this when I come back to the United States and as they're praying for me I'm feeling the sense of God's blessing coming over me it's almost like water of the Holy Spirit coming on me and I I feel cleansed I feel empowered and then the craziest thing happens I feel a dark presence deep in my guts flush out and start coming forward and contaminating the blessing and suddenly this clean water that came on me it felt like it was getting polluted suddenly my head is filled with violent and pornographic images about the two guys in the room and I'm going I got so I shut it down I said I said what is going on and he goes it sounds like there's a demon and you as well and I said well what do we do he says we will pray and he will go I'm like okay so then this is where the classroom really started so I've got two guys praying for me one is the African who is praying in the name of Jesus I rebuke you and I just cover you with the blood of Jesus and he's praying like a Pentecostal right yeah and the demon inside of me I feel this presence like it's getting with with a hammer blows it hates it then I had this other Pastor who's just come in who's just been delivered and has a hard time even believing any of this is real he's saying I believe felt my unbelief kind of like Natalie Wood and Miracle on 34th Street right and the demon is going whatever dude it's unaffected I'm seeing in my body the power of exercising the authority of Jesus uh against these demonic spirits and he he left and when he left there was an unbelievable feeling of calm and Stillness kind of like debugging a computer suddenly it's empty of the virus well you I mean what's what's often I mean what's always difficult to explain is that you're feeling this viscerally you yourself are experiencing this thing inside of you which you try to put it into words but there's some people that just think what what is he talking about but when it happens to you you know uh and when you see it I've been in the room I've seen these things myself I know this is real and you really need to do to be a kind of a diagnostician the more ex the more experience you have the more you can be aware of what is happening now or or which way to pray or you know and so obviously this African Pastor knew this stuff backwards and forwards and knew what to pray and how to pray but the idea that you could viscerally feel that that his powerful prayers and and declarations with the authority of Jesus were harming the demon you could feel that because the demon was inside you I mean that's pretty amazing it was it was an education it was what I was looking for and then when I returned to the United States suddenly my eyes were open to that reality and I started seeing it in people not everybody mental illness is real real physical illness is real all those things are real doctors lawyers doctors nurses psychiatrists counselors are all important professions and I work with them but there's this huge other area of demonic involvement that is the purview of the church especially the leadership of the church which we have ignored and there's a lot of work for us to do and so that's really I began engaging it on Capitol Hill and I tell you the lives that were changed if you've been doing this ever since I've been doing it ever since how many years have you been doing this stuff at this point 13 years unbelievable unbelievable this is what you do um I want to talk a little bit more uh about this uh but then of course we have to have you back to talk about what it is you're doing now is there a website where people can find you yeah um go to dunamisbasics.org is that du yeah so dunamis is d-u-n-a-m-i-s and it's what it is it is introductory materials for the personal work of the holy spirit for advancing the kingdom of God and it's done get this from a presbyterian point of view well the Presbyterian Church kinda needs this so I'm really thrilled uh to hear that a presbyterian minister is doing this dunamis uh dot org right um there's stories there there's training and it and I can tell you more about the ministry that I'm a part of because you need training no no that's exactly right and that's what Ken fish has been doing all around the world and in New York and uh this is so vital so vital we're going to go to a break final short segment uh with James Carney don't go away folks welcome back final short segment with Dr Reverend Dr James Carney spelled k-e-a-r-n-y dunamisbasics.org is the website dunamis basics.org um there's so much to talk about so we'll have to have you back again to specifics but um one thing that many people don't realize is that the whole Masonic World Freemasonry uh has there's a lot of demonic stuff there and a lot of people who have trafficked in that have inadvertently uh inherited curses uh and demonic things going on I kind of didn't believe this a few years ago but I've seen the reality of it and so talk a little bit about that if you would sure um so what the devil is up to is trying to um keep people out of the kingdom of God and what he does and what he has been doing over the years is creating false kingdoms so you can look at false religions as as being false kingdoms so Islam um Buddhism Confucianism these are these are all false kingdoms one of those false kingdoms is this the world of Masonry and what that means is that there's a lot of and it's a Christian it's designed to ensnare Christians so there's a lot of good Christian ethics it's a lot about you know men becoming good men and good citizens and and all of that but it is a gnostic heresy meaning that it has to do with secret knowledge that you are initiated into in order to attain higher levels of Enlightenment and also in the after world that you will attain higher levels of Heaven um and in terms of doing work of finding the the doing Deliverance work and and working with people and finding demons and trying to find the permissions why they were there I've been astonished at how many of the Demonic presences and people are there because of their involvement or with Masons or because of their fathers or grandfather's involvement with the Masons Masons actually bring curses on themselves that also entrap their families and that these curses a lot of times are passed down it just sounds like crazy talk but I tell you what it's it's it's been proven again and again in terms of ministry and the relief that people have found because of these deep and sometimes very powerful demons that are welcomed in through the world of masonry it is not just about little guys and funny cars and halftime shows no it is it is much it's dark no it's real and again I've learned this through my friend uh Ken fish uh and there's a specific curves I can't think of the name it's there's a it's a person's name that's affiliated with but in any event um yeah this is real and so the people listening right now thinking oh my father was amazing my grandfather was amazing you need to find someone uh who understands this stuff and who can pray with you and bring you deliverance from this because you'll you know it's sort of shocking to think that I I certainly I couldn't have something going on or whatever we all can and frankly uh James you just said it here you are being a born-again Believer for years and when they pray for you in Africa a demon comes out so there's no shame in this folks we're all broken Sinners and we just want what what God wants for us which is to say total healing and you humbled yourself and they prayed for you and that happened to you and now you are being used by God to pray for others we're out of time I just want to uh say thank you we will just have you back to talk more about the specifics of the ministry that you do but people can find you at dunamis Basics it's d-u-n-a-m-i-s dunamisbasics.org James Carney spelled k-e-a-r-n-y James Carney however you spell it I like you and I'm glad we're new friends and we'll have you back soon thank you my friend this has been an absolute Joy uh God bless you and what you're doing Eric thank you

Channel: Eric Metaxas

Views: 13,031

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Id: ye3lOkomoqk

Length: 69min 9sec (4149 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 10 2023