James Charles Litz, Private First Class, US Army, Vietnam War

and to be with mr. James Charles lits on 20 February 2001 and the Buffalo Connecticut Street armory interviewers Lieutenant Colonel Robert on an I was born in Buffalo New York at a Main Street and Children's Hospital and I grew up in pretty much well not pretty much in a suburb of Chickamauga and I went to mother divine grace grade school and went to Cleveland Hill High School and I graduated in 1967 from high school I after 12 years of you know the high school education I have no college or any further education other than high school well I know during high school our history teacher used to talk to us and tell us that when we get out if we weren't planning on going to school and we were in good physical condition and stuff we'd probably be getting drafted go in a Vietnam that was during my junior year and I can remember my one friend in class Tom Wanek he was sitting next to me in history class and we used to laugh and just say the war and two years will be over and we won't have to worry about it so what happened was is we both it's funny because out of our graduating class in 1967 we both wound up in Vietnam and tommy was in the Seabees and I know when he was over there he I just found this out because he died from cancer two years ago at the age of 49 and I think it may have been related to Agent Orange I'm not sure but he had three Bronze Stars and and and I was the other one from that graduating class in 1967 who wound up one of Vietnam and being in infantry and pretty much any of the other guys that want to that's class that your that with us if they did go to Vietnam there wasn't too many of them I know none of them really wanted to infantry or else was in the field like the two of us were but that was ironic because we were in school together and we were laughing saying by the time we graduate in two years it'll be over and here of all things that two of us will not going over there well my older brother Tommy when he graduated from Cleveland Hill High School in 1964 because he's three years younger or older than I am he worked at Westinghouse for a year and then after that my dad kept telling him you better sign up in the reserves or something time because you're not gonna get away without being drafted here eventually so Tommy wound up signing up in the Air Force Reserve unit out of Niagara Falls and then when I graduated three years later my dad kept telling me that in June of 67 and I knew my brother Tommy he had a whole year before he you know went into the Air Force Reserve unit so I figure I got at least a year and it got to be around Oh February and my dad kept at me kept at me Jimmy you're gonna wind up going to Vietnam and I kept saying to him you know I don't think I'll get drafted blah blah and what happened was is I finally realized I might get drafted and I want and I took all the tests I passed them all the thing is I got drafted on April I believe it was April 19 1968 and by the time I found out I passed the test for the Air Force Reserves like my brother Tommy I was already at Fort Dix I was already in basic training two weeks and I remember my dad telling me on the phone too bad you're gonna wind up now in Vietnam and I said to my dad I had four from Fort Dix on the payphone they said I'm still glad I'm only gonna put two years in I'm not gonna have to be committed for sex but at that time I was in basic training I had no idea that I was eventually going to you know go to Vietnam and be in an infantry unit in with the first Air Cavalry but what was I gonna say as far as getting out of high school and stuff I always was told of my family if you wanted to go to college you'd have to pay your own way to college and stuff and at that time I never really liked school much I mean I like gym and I like doing all that stuff you know but I didn't care sitting in classrooms and said I think the only subject I really liked in high school was the shops when I took like metal shop woodworking shop and I did like history kind of liked history and stuff like that but I remember sitting in my senior year thinking looking outside the window and I think I always especially had no nice spring and nearly and uh you know wanting to be outside and stuff my experience in Vietnam I tell you the truth the country itself is beautiful I mean I can remember being up in the Central Highlands and looking down and seeing some of the rivers we used to cross where there was deep and you can see right into the so clear you don't know pollution in them or anything and just thinking what a beautiful country what a what a shame that there has to be such you know killing and everything that was going on in that country Fort Dix New Jersey well I remember when I got drafted I went down to Buffalo here at a main street and they had 18 of us and out of the 18 of us they had 11 they took 4 or 11 for the army 7 for a Marine so I thought I was gonna get the Marines because I was one of the little bigger ones bigger guys I only weigh 250 pounds but the guy next to me he was a real shrimp you know and and I thought they'd take me over him and eat a well anyways they took 7 4 Marines 11 for the army and they took the little guy for the Marines so I thought right away I was relieved to know that but when I went to Fort Dix I can remember going there and I had all my clothes I had my shirt in my pants and then the 1st May there they took all our clothes and start issuing us all that other colors and at first I honestly felt because I had never been away from home and I was only what 18 or years old 18 and a half and I remember at first feeling like it was almost like I had done something wrong and I'm being punished and as the time went on there with the other guys I mean some of those guys you could tell they were you know maybe cryin or whatever and stuff in and I guess I felt very homesick I can remember feeling very homesick because I came from a large family and like I say it was the first time I was away from my brothers sisters or parents but then I started to realize you know we're all in this together and I never was very good at books and that's I graduated Madame Regents out of Cleveland Hill with 85 average but that was not hard courses it was shops and the regular history math on it but I was good in the athletic so it was pretty good in sports and running and different things like that so I remember her being there and I always could like in gym class in high school I knew I could run and outmaneuver people pretty good stuff so when I got there and we got out gradually and start going on doing PT and all this kind of stuff I knew I was pretty good at it so I guess that really got me through doing things when I got with the other guys knowing that I was probably in the top 25% of the company being physically fit and and doing them kind of things so I think that was one of the things that helped me start to adjust to their life and also the thing is that when I was with the other guys I realized they're all in the same boat too you know and if I wanted to cry and act like a you know a baby or whatever it is I don't know I remember calling my dad after the first week the second week I think it was because they didn't let us call for a couple weeks and I told my dad on the phone I hated it I says I don't like it I'm homesick and I he fin start crying and he said to me he said Jimmy he says he says you can make the best or else you can whine and and try to get out and you know and that's not gonna be good on your record to rest your life so I remember talking it up he told me he says you toughen up and he says do the best you can and stuff and I can remember after that I went to Mass and communion I think it was the following Sunday or whatever and ever since then I kind of just kind of fell into everything I like I say I know I was good at at PT tests and different things like that when I was at Fort Polk Louisiana after basic training I went to Fort Polk Louisiana for nine weeks and half our company when we graduated from Fort Dix went to Germany the other half of us went to Fort Polk but I found out pretty much the guys who had the highest PT tests are the half of the guys that went to Fort Polk and the half that had the lower scores more so one tough Germany well when I went to Fort Polk Louisiana out of 211 guys and a final PT test out of a possible five hundred points I got 486 points another guy had 492 and then two guys maxed it so I was fourth out of 211 guys and I guess I really felt good to know that you know so and what I know I think now today I don't know it's kind of a contrast knowing what I know today about all this I think if I would have purposely not did good on PT test I'm I don't want to over the charity and that's not that's not fair to say in a sense that after my tour my time in Vietnam and coming home I thought about all my friends that got killed or people we were with and firefights that got killed and stuff and I've had trouble my whole life dealing with that Here I am and they're dead and I guess a guilt complex or something and thing is I had to learn to deal with that too because God spared me for a reason why I'm still here after some of the stuff we seen and fewer things that bothered me were that I did participate in kill him the enemy soldiers and and that's something that um when I came home I realized according to my religion the way I was brought up and everything that was wrong it's not right to kill people what I've learned to let God judge me and and and not judge myself anymore and torture myself with some of it not really I mean at the end of basic training I remember it was hot June near the end of June or whatever and there was some rumors going around a couple of days before we graduated that half the company was going to Germany and other half was going to Vietnam and I found out naturally the I think a day or two before graduation or what 45 days I don't know what how long that I was going to Vietnam and the guys that were going to Germany they were getting a two-week pass the rest of us were gonna just you know kill a day or two when we had to be down at the bus station to get to the airport to be in Fort Polk or Shreveport Louisiana you know two days after graduation and I remember graduation day everybody was graduating and they were doing all right a lot of them had their girlfriends and mother father's there and you know I came from a large family and my mom and dad didn't have time to come to see me graduate all that stuff so they they were great right and there was people there with their girlfriends and fathers and mothers and I just remember walking off by myself being by myself and feeling kind of let down you know that nobody was there and stuff but I learned to get over any special friends you made your usual experiences we look back at basing now what do you think of well I think that had a good time in it you know in a certain way I remember making some good friends and I don't know we just learned to make jokes sometimes when we were out of doing things that the drill sergeants didn't like us to do we learn how to do little things too to laugh for something or not you know make a game out of it in certain ways and I used to sometimes make a joke and the guy in front of me when we were at pray dressier or whatever it was and make him laugh and sometimes he'd start like if he started laughing at drill sergeant would pick up on it and next thing you know he would call he'd go let's come on come out and give me 75 push-ups or something because I was the instigator or something like that and I did notice as time went on in basic training as the week's went by and we did different things like that I remember the drill sergeants kind of letting up on us a little bit stuff then we start realizing they were human because the second night I was in training the first morning the alarms went off at like 5:30 6 o'clock I was completely dark and I was still in my bunk and black drill sergeant come in and and he didn't even turn the light on he just come right in and he had a saucer head on and he picked he first of all he shook my bunk because it was a bunk pretty much it wasn't one of those runs it we stayed in the brick building at Dick's but some of us before we actually got in a permanent brick building had to stay in a cots or whatever that was it was a pretty much a cot and he looked at me and all I could see was his white eyes his white teeth and he goes son I'm your mother I'm your father I'm your you know and blah blah blah blah it's time to get up I'm your uncle the holeshot and he grabbed the cot and the whole thing and flipped me over flipped me right over on and the floor you know and I never forgot that thinking to myself my god I'll be up next morning before this happens again but you know all that stuff that was going on I basically hate it but then you know there was something that like I said that made me think to myself if I don't make a joke out of some of this I'll just you know feel like cracking up or whatever you know or hate that so much so I learned to make a joke out of it you know there was two times in basic train and then I got in fights with other you know other soldiers or whatever and one of them was because I was going around and they put us in our rooms by alphabetical order and there was this one guy in there his name was powered peel llla rd and i forget where he was from but he was short like me and I weighed about a hundred and forty five hundred fifty this guy was maybe short he weighed about the same and he kept you know making fun and I I just thought he was making digs at me a lot and he made digs at a couple of the other guys there in in in the train in there a few times so one morning I had enough and I went over and I pushed him he pushed me back and then I punched him a couple times and I not I mean I pretty well got the best of them and I found out for having a big mouth he never backed it up you know what I'm saying when I smacked him a couple I'm left-handed when I hit him a couple times he just kind of like didn't uh didn't react too much and after that I had no more trouble with him Fort Dix I used to boxing on weekends or not Fort Dix before pulk I boxed on the weekends we'd go down to the gym and sometimes we didn't have nothing to do and stuff like that so I'm left-handed and I can remember I don't anyway like I say I didn't have this stupid thing here and I I could move pretty good and tell you the truth I'm like once I got used to it hitting somebody in the face or in the head how could I feel good all the way back here they'd hit me back and you know and you see sometimes you'd see Switzer or whatever you get hit pretty good and you just keep going at one time I box the guy he that weighed 130 pounds or nobody weight 30 pounds more and I wait and he knocked me after three faculty finally caught me with a left or a right cross across the head I never forgot it I was knocked I basically was knocked out and I was sitting up and I can remember just seeing all white you know but that was a guy that was come in and he boxed but there was nobody there that they'd his weight class the box them so they'd says commandlets you're so good in the middle weight or the light weight or whatever I'm in just come on I'm going and see if you can do with him you know so I lasted three rounds but I knew if he hit me he he backed me pretty good you know but it took him three rounds before he finally hit me and they wouldn't let me continue after that I was sitting in the sin in the ring with my gloves on and I was just kind of sitting there in the nation think they said that's enough get me really good to hit me good don't throw advanced infantry had to do with um claymore mines booby traps you know punji sticks different things like that um all the kind of training that they were preparing us I guess for the younger warfare yeah at Fort dick at Fort pulp they weren't sure cuz we and then what happened was is when we got to Fort Paul - half of our company from Fort Dix we're all northerners and then we got in with someplace where they came from advanced infantry training and they were from the south so right then that's the part another part of my life that I had learned that I'm from Buffalo and in the north and I always tried to stick with the guys when I went south to Fort Polk with us the northern guys but see the alphabetical order that's down there too so my one bunk mate was from Kentucky and he would talk which you don't sure cheer you know that you know they talk from the south and I think he still had a little bit of a problem with the Civil War because we used to um we'll get around and stuff you know and some of those guys would get really mad at us you know like you could tell her then one of them said one time don't start knocking the civil war itself because of the Civil War then he says my great-great grandfather or somebody was in the war you know and another guy from up for mine well that's too bad somebody from where I was from up there too and we're not still pissed off about it they would say you know stuff like that so there was stuff going on that I could feel there was still tension with families from the south you know but you'd kind of learn I learned some time the best thing I do keep my mouth shut you know and just but I never was much of keeping my mouth shut once I got going I know I'm that you just that's half of the Irish I'm part Irish you know some there Fort Dix New Jersey I had I think it was three passes and two of the passes I got to go one night once once I went home I flew home another time I went to I think it's called Wright's town or something like that which was you know I don't know where so called beer joints and all that well we had a good time my friend almost got arrested and put in the back of the thing where they pick him up you know what do you call him with the cages and all that that's it yeah but anyways the MP let us go because I told him I'll take care of him and get him back to base which I did and then another time we had three paths once I went home once I went there and the third time I got KP I had to clean numb pots and pans for 18 hours and I got that for laughing in the cafeteria one time when they told me not or whatever it was see once I started doing crazy stuff sometimes funny stuff the other guys would make make a joke they'd laugh you know but naturally it would be me doing the stupid thing so I'd be the one that got caught or whatever so I had three passes there I went that one home went to that rights town and then while 1kp 18 hours and then at Fort Polk I had I think I had two passes down there two weekend passes down there and the one I stayed on base I think it wasn't the other one I forget where we went once somewhere down there too and outside of Fort Polk I forget the name of the town but they had a town down there it's the same thing that was all for military passes and stuff like that well it was July August 8 or 9 weeks it was hot extremely hot and by 10 o'clock 11 o'clock in the morning it was like you know 95 or whatever the humidity was real high and by that time I think I must have been about 445 pounds then I think I went in about 160 and by that time I was god I must have weight lost about 10 but at least 155 and you know the blue - believe it or not it was hot but I sweat a lot so and we took salt pills and I think I used to get it I don't know if a kick out of it but some of these bigger guys when we go on our forced marches and stuff like that they'd have trouble you know as a couple of them I remember two of them passed right out completely from heat exhaustion or whatever what I didn't like is if we went to a rifle range some time to drill sergeants they would drink ice-cold Pepsi's you know they they did this stuff they had ice-cold perhaps ease or coke you know with the condensation running off the can and here we had a canteen only one filling of water in the canteen and jeez that canteen was that water was hot it got warm you know so I used to pretend I was drinking my canteen water and I'd pretend it was Pepsi do you know that psychologically when I did that I almost could taste Pepsi because I knew what Pepsi tastes like and I would just drink it and as far as being demanding goes yeah I think it was I think when I seen I seen officer in a gentleman with my wife a couple years back that's another thing when I came home from Vietnam I didn't go to no movies or anything for almost 13 years and they were coming out with all these Vietnam movies and all that stuff I didn't even want to go to see III know what I was trying to do in my mind I was trying to act like I wasn't even there or else if I was there I wanted to I wanted to cover it up I want I wanted to cover up different things even like right now I I get emotional now but you want me to tell you something when I first came home I know cry and cry for 12 years and and it was like I think we were taught not to cry in a way we were I know they you know they'd you you'd show emotion or something like that and they tell you right away toughen up toughen up you know so I I mean when I really when it really hit me Fort Dix Fort Polk they were all Mickey Mouse stuff okay I can see what they were doing they were gradually getting us to prepare us for a world we were going but the reality of it is the day that they dropped me off the chopper in the jungle with 45 other guys because we were a reconnaissance patrol it was an overcast gloomy September late September day and ironically on my my 20th birthday I left Oakland army terminal to go to Vietnam it was my 20th birthday so then we went to Vietnam landed at 1:00 in the morning turned the lights on for the plane to land when the plane land at the jet landed they may turn them off okay but processed through about three weeks so the next thing you know then I'm finally getting dropped off in a helicopter in Vietnam in with my unit with about 40 or 45 reconnaissance patrol and the day they dropped me off in the evening a lady afternoon about 3:00 in the afternoon and took me and another guy dropped us off on the jungle and I remember meet my black platoon sergeant and Here I am 20 years old only 145 pounds I got pitchers on because I only took two pitchers in Vietnam that I paid the guy at dollar when we were back in the landing zone before you know we got a chance go back and rest or whatever from and then it hit me that's one of Bennett then it really hit me that Here I am we're actually here now and it made everything else like back home and everything Mickey Mouse and sure enough after three or four weeks or whatever it is then I finally seen guys get killed being involved in it and I found out that I am scared I remember being afraid that my grenades were gonna pull out in the jungle you know pull the pins and then I'm gonna blow myself up after a couple of weeks of that I finally realized if that's gonna happen that's only gonna be through my own ignorance and the other guys in front of me ignorant you know so we used to make sure everybody's frags were had been at the right way and stuff but after so long of being out there and seeing some of this stuff that went on and even the way we lived and stuff you know it was mine soon's two of those months was awful rainin we got up in the central islands and the cold at night it was in the probably mid 40s low 50s but from it was an MFI middle october/november and it get dark yet like five o'clock at night and then the Sun you know next daylight maybe 7:00 in the morning we'd go all night silent rain or rain damp mud have a poncho liner and sugar all night long our teeth going like that and this one night the guy said to me next to me because we had to keep patrol watch or whatever he used to say he said one night that he wishes he would die in his sleep and I said you know a German Shepherd back home that has a doghouse to go in it get it out of the rain has lives better than what we're doing okay and then ice and then I and then I didn't say too much but I thought to myself I feel bad for him because he's feeling that way and I guess I am too but I would never give in to it but the thing with this whole thing is I'm thinking in my mind I got a father and a mother and six brothers and sisters and I want to go home I don't care how how bad I feel I want to go home and see my my family you know and and he just I guess said it you know he said it but I felt the same way he did you know I just assumed go to sleep and not even wake up I think I had a medal that my dad gave me at the airport of pious to six because I'm a Catholic and within three weeks in the mountains in the mud nights and all that cook and everything I lost that medal and I never found it and before we moved out that day that I realized I lost it during the night it was in the mud somewhere I looked all over trying to find that medal you know it was about the size of a soap half a dollar and it was Pius the sixth and my dad had it blessed and he gave it to me when I left and I couldn't find that battle I just couldn't find it and I remember when I finally got my backpack on and all the stuff I felt so bad that I couldn't find it mental you know but and you know get over that one too I found out what I'm made out of I'm kind of like wanna be tough but I'm that and look I'm a pansy I'm emotionally um when I came home I was trying to be tough I drank you know I didn't hold any employments or not neither if I got jobs I would want to run away I didn't feel like I was lazy but I always had trouble getting in with other people at lunchtime talking because when I first came home I felt so elated that I got it made it home alive but what I also found out was other ever everybody that I tried to associate with none of them were there and and then sometime I would feel good to say I was in Vietnam but then you'd see the war on TV and it was like they did this then that Kayle guy come out that did what he did and see all this stuff start going in my mind and bringing me back to there knowing I didn't do any of that stuff but yet seeing what they would label in the paper about us and then sometimes naturally being there and seeing that stuff I used to get the feeling that people says oh look at him he was in Vietnam he killed people he killed kids do you know I'm saying even if they didn't know it in my mind this is what I start believing but I found out that for the first ten years I was home I would feel like if you were in Vietnam and I talked to you and you were an infantry like I was then you know you didn't see nothing I don't care what kind of work you did over there or whatever and you know you see that's something that after so many years I I started to realize that's bitter that's anger within myself as I got older and and that is not the way I want to live the rest of my life judging people because it's things like that the other thing is is when I come home and I found out a lot of my friends none of them really went that we're in combat they were getting married they you know what I'm saying and I hear stuff like well jeez we got out of going you know we went to college or might got a different of some kind you know you see what I'm saying and I mean I'm only 21 years old then 22 and and then I'm putting together I went a few times for jobs I remember going for a few jobs in the area and I'd put down Vietnam infantry thinking oh boy tell hire me because they'll see that I didn't crack up or any of this other stuff being at war you know sure enough most of the times they would hire either the person that had a naturally college over army for sure but they would hire the person who didn't be in service you know or so than I felt they would hire me I don't know if it was me if maybe it was me and said Navy because I knew this because I I would go and find out two days later I'd call back to find out if they hired someone in sure enough they hired somebody you know but I wouldn't ask him if it was because I was in the army and I wrote down infantry or something like that you know I was afraid that back then they would be thinking with all the stuff going on we're talking now 1960 we're talking 70 71 maybe we're talking they think infantry and then with the people shifting in the war more so to get us out of Vietnam then send in more troops over there and then some of the stuff like alien and I've heard comments already when I've been somewhere like in the one place I worked a break room he read the article at lunchtime and he goes well half those Vietnam vets there they're all nuts anyways you know I can still remember hearing that kind of stuff you know and that was when they didn't even know I was a Vietnam veteran you know and my attitude at that time at 24 25 then was like you know you don't know what you're talking about you know I felt like I swear I felt like going up to him that's another damn problem I knew I was good at fighting because I some of the I did in the army like boxed I knew I could fight good you know and I felt like going up to him right at lunchtime going right up to his face telling him you know you don't know what the f you're talking about and if you don't like it and see I would get like I don't care if I lose the job or what happens to me then I could feel I could feel my arms you know it was like time to punch this bastard in the mouth I was afraid of get in trouble I was afraid that you know if I reacted like this in front of these other people I'm gonna wind up you know getting arrested and there was a few times would happen was after I did come out I got myself in the fights I mean I didn't get myself into him I got out and had a few drinks got into a gin mill somewhere and somebody pushed me in the wrong way and I just back him I one guy hit I hit him once and then after I hit a might hit his head on the urinal in the bathroom and he fell on the floor now he was completely out cold and the thing is they came in they knew I did it they they they grabbed me and say you wait here because if if if I said they said you know if he's something wrong or he's bad you can get put in jail for this you know it's like whatever and then afterwards they found out that I was in Vietnam and they said because the other guy was what knew I was in Vietnam and they said to me you can't kill people because you're not in the service now and I thought to myself well he pushed me or this or that what she did I swear I never went in there trying to make a make a fight okay but if somebody pushed me the wrong way or insulted me if I had a few beers in me it was like you you know I don't give a if I grab that chair and hitch all right over the head I hit two guys in the head with beer bottles already and everything and you know what the killing thing about this is when I did it I felt good I felt powerful now what I think they were telling me over at the hospital because I went to a Veterans Hospital after years ago and I got arrested for well I shouldn't be saying a lot of this stuff but they told me when I get into a position where I feel threatened the only way I would know how to react is to want to get like that you know I'm saying and that if I get the upper hand on somebody right away it's a high I would get off of being in combat and when we were in combat I know I told you before I was scared but I can tell you this much when we killed the enemy soldier and they killed the guys I was with we got a high off getting them to I'm saying and the next day we used to bury or put our guys in the bags to send him home but we would take the enemy soldiers and throw them in the hole or two foxholes and just throw dirt on but there was something in few of these things that I had seen that I realized this wasn't right I mean this is where I think God stepped in my religious beliefs or whatever and I still believe this very truly that there was something wrong with killing that guy too and see this is where I get all mixed up with this whole ordeal I believe in Jesus Christ I believe and he died and resurrected and that's my belief as a Catholic okay it's not even just as a Catholic it's the way I was brought up and I don't think I'm brainwashed I think that God put us all on earth in some way to know right from wrong instincts over you right from birth I really do and at 20 years old I went and I was asked to do these things I was brought up not to do but just the emotional feeling of being in a firefight killing the enemy you know it's like you were gonna try to get me what we got you first and that kind of stuff it's almost Mickey Mouse stuff and so when we're burying a dead Vietnam soldier some of this come back to being when I got home I went to five priests I told the fathers that I says I said you know I don't go to Mass in communion doesn't mean I don't believe in God I says but I have a tendency of believing I'll be in church when you bury me in a funeral you know at my funeral or something like that and so when I came home and got in these little scraps I'd always feel good if I got the best turnout to be about 30 31 years old and I've gotten a few and even if I want I'd go home and I'd start feeling bad what the hell am i doing I'm I'm punching somebody or even if they started it you know I have went now I'm 52 years old I have once and now I'm 35 34 last time I 32 I got arrested for that fight that time I went to two years of therapy at the Veterans Hospital and alcohol abuse problems okay and I got out of there and my doctors told me there that stay away from drinking I've been straight now 18 years they said when you get into a situation where you feel like you're getting you know ready to fight or whatever learn how to say a prayer or something and just get away from it if you can because I still don't know what's going on here I get the feeling like I'm special okay and I think because I think it's a feeling of being proud to know that I didn't run away from the war but yet in another way I feel ashamed I have mixed feelings I you know I have mixed feelings I can tell you this much it affected my entire life I got mixed feelings I I have four brothers two sisters and ever since I've been home I never felt the same I haven't been the same with my boy I sometimes look at my brothers and you know I would say jeez I'm glad I'm glad you've never had that go through this and then find out what you might have turned out to be or how you would have fought stuff like that I think about that more than anybody or my family because I was close to it I think at 20 years old or whatever and I'm different I'm just different and I choose to be that way because I think down deep inside me I don't know like I say resent any of it but I know I'm just different I just don't think the same way and feel the same way and I think that was from experience and some of the stuff I seen in a young age and you know if you go along so far and and think that it's all better things are better with it something I've triggered eventually you know what I'm saying but the main thing I learned not to do is I learned not to drink and I haven't gotten into a physical confrontation with anybody in 17 years and I'm happily married also no not really I'm collecting post-traumatic stress and then I also get money for diabetes I'm a diabetic I only found out how two years ago and the reason I'm that they well with me put it this way they start recognizing diabetes as is possibly a side effect from Agent Orange and when I was in Vietnam I was where they sprayed it I drank the water out of the crater pits so I know I had definitely exposure to Agent Orange but I can honestly say this I'm 52 I've always had a problem with low blood sugar hypoglycemia no other way but never high blood sugar and two years ago I wound up in the hospital at veterans with a 719 reading which is you know normals 1 or 60 and 120 I almost was in a coma and almost died but anyways since I was getting 50% for post-traumatic stress they started recognizing diabetes if you were in Vietnam and infantry or else handled the stuff so naturally I was infantry so they granted me some more you know so so I'm getting 70% post-traumatic stress and then diabetes and all that and you asked me if I'm working well I am paint I paint pitchers believe it or not I have paintings in 8 major museums of musi d art Nazif in paris i have them in the museum American Folk Art in New York City I have them in actually Governor Cuomo had one in his collection at the governor's mansion that I did for him of the mansion seven years ago and then when he lost the governorship he took it with him I believe I also have him in world international midnight world International Folk Art Museum in La Jolla California so my works are in top museums but let me put it this way there are naive art I don't know if you know what naive art is it's unschooled by Grandma Moses and nobody I have no education and I just started when I went through therapy at the VA for my alcohol problems they said you have to do something other than drink in your spare time because I have ulcers real bad I get that's how I want up there with them I got large liver and bleeding ulcers so I started to paint and I in the first two years I painted and I want people to know I was painting because I didn't want him to make fun out of me you know thinking I was so I painted these pictures and the crazy thing about this is I had no idea but there's collectors who collect naive art and if you have your own original style and everything like that well anyways I entered a show in Cooperstown New York at the Baseball Hall of Fame down there one year they had 746 paintings so that we're entering in a show of on slides and out of 746 New York Times writer a critic for New York Times his name was mr. Zimmer I think it was Don Zimmer or something at that summer it was anyways his last name was Zimmer he chose 189 paintings for the exhibition and out of the 189 he only chose I think seven for awards when he chose my painting number one award out of all those paintings and for originality and in the original work look of a naive artist so Bob rich is the owner of the Bisons up here to baseball team I'm a Mindy rich so I remember at that time I took the painting that I won the award with and I brought it up here because it was a pile of feel and that's what they named the field after so I showed it to them and then they liked the painting so they said you know what would I like to do with it and I said I would like to use it if we could to raise money for Vietnam veteran scholarship fund so they want and they put a big show on at the atrium down here in February I think it was a 1992-93 and then they charged $35 a head for people to come in and see my art my other paintings you know and they raised over $10,000 for the Vietnam veterans scholarship fund here in Buffalo so then what happened was the girl that was valedictorian of her class she didn't have no money to go to college because her father was an injured Vietnam veteran or else the veterans didn't pay enough for her college and she want to go to st. Bonaventure so we I guess the scholarship fund the Vietnam veterans used the money that we raised from this exhibition and show that Bob rich put up the money for to send her to Bonaventure College down at Bonaventure and she got either her first year or two first two years you know tuition paid because her dad was permanently disabled from Vietnam but that's hard to understand - I'm getting some of that story right because of her father was permanently disabled I'm sure the service or the VA would have taken care of paying for her schooling in some way but I know it helped scholarship people that were you know didn't have the money so that was a good feeling in a couple years after she had graduated she wrote me a real nice letter and said mr. Letts I'm very happy or thankful to you personally because it wasn't for your artwork and doing what you did with it I know it wasn't your money but you you precipitated mr. rich doing a show of your work to bring people in to see your paintings and then use the money for mine and that was a good feeling that made me feel good I remember when I got that nice letter from her oh yeah 15 years I married a second year second grade schoolteacher then this is this is crazy too because I met my wife through a dating service and the thing is she taught second grade in all to New York for 17 years while she went to do oval columns right across the street from here and I met her and I start going with her and we start going to things like shows because Beverly like shows theatres I went to dinner first time in my life ever with a date that I odd when I was like 33 years old okay and it was stuff I never did before but at that time I was trying to redo my life you know and Beverly never told me she didn't want to see me I mean you know let me put it this way there was a few times I was with her I got a little drunk there was another two times that I was one time I was with her she hurt she had disks out and she can't order one leg she don't have no nerves in this like she walks funny so there was another time we were out somewhere and she was walking and I have to walk she walked slow you know so I would one guy listen why don't kids you get you moving faster and I says well why don't you take a walk or whatever you know what I'm saying and then I almost gotten a confrontation with the guy and she said Jimmy not in front of him but on the way home that night if you're gonna get drunk and or get loaded like and then if you're gonna go and somebody's gonna embarrass or insult you and you're gonna want to punch him I don't want to see you no more she was in it so I didn't I started stop doing that kind of stuff because then I start realizing I'm gonna lose my girlfriend you know but I've said Beverly I'm only sticking up for you she didn't you're not sticking up for me she says let the guy say what he wants if I walk slow I can live with that he says but what you're gonna do I end up doing is getting mad and I'm making trouble then what are we eating all the stuff I was being taught at post-traumatic stress stuff not to get involved in if I could you know so I mean what I'm saying that as a sucker grace she takes care of little kids she's retired now after 34 years and she sobs three days a week two days a week just to keep busy because she likes to look good she's 56 we don't have children okay and these are my wife's kids but what I'm saying is I kind of laugh a little bit because I wound up with somebody like like that but the reason I'm still married to is because she's a non-violent person she's a counteract of anytime that I might get my temper up I learned from her in a way to just bite your tongue we can hurt you what's it's your fear that's causing the problem or if your Eagle that you know what I'm saying you don't want to be like that so now I've been married 15 years I want labeverly four and a half years before we got married and I'm very happily married pretty much and as far as the other Vietnam stuff goes I mean there was firefights stuff like that killing and different things like that but I have to put it in perspective God's spared my life I mean whoever God is I'm still here for some reason I think in a way my art is a joy to people who see it and I haven't made a heck of a lot of money with it but it's something that I've gotten some nice recognition for and it's kept me out of trouble do you know I'm saying so I mean I kind of look at things now like I'm blessed and one of the things I had to learn to do is not feel sorry for myself it's a hard it's it's hard because the thing is you you you know you see that kind of stuff and you say to yourself oh that didn't happen you know that didn't happen but there's little things that make you realize it did happen and a lot of guys drank themselves to death one of my friends put a pistol in his mouth two years ago and pulled the trigger he's got a wife and three kids then there's ones that die from cancer from the Agent Orange you know so what I'm saying this is I'm here and I know down deep inside me I don't want to die but when I do die I want to go to the right place I don't wanna you know and and and if I want to torture myself with all this stuff that you can torture yourself with I try to look at it like that's the devil and as far as my Kyo goes for anything that I did in Vietnam I served my country which was number one I didn't run away and the third thing is I only asked what the people in charge of my country at that time asked me to do as a person as a citizen in this country so I had nothing to be ashamed for I have to just not be ashamed within myself for whatever it was and realize this is what I had to do to serve my country if there was anything wrong with him it's the people that were in charge you know but I can honestly say I am so glad I am not in a position where I would have to tell a parent or anybody like that that your son has to go to war do you know I'm saying did you have to send your son to war Wow I sit here and you know whatever but then again our country ain't what it is today if everybody wanted to sit at home and just let somebody walk over them and as far as Korea and Vietnam go I guess it truly was something that helps bring down the the wall in in Germany or whatever East and West Germany and and communism you know I mean all this stuff gradually played a little partner at all I still think in the end what's gonna happen this whoever created us hopefully will put us in the heaven or so-called heaven I guess I don't know if sometimes I think where was they before I was born where am I gonna be when I'm dead it's a complete mystery and that's where our faith come in I guess and I just like to daydream sometimes and think I'll be up with God and in my mind God is only the person that I recognize since I've been a kid and that is Jesus Christ who I look at I was a person with air and a beard but then again other people have different beliefs Muslims and all these other people but whoever it is the Great Creator is where I want to be someday in that with the ones who so-called deceived them or whatever one didn't live according to his laws we didn't cover there do you want to talk about that really but I what I'm saying is I guess I'm giving you my philosophy and my way then after coming home and spending the last 32 years of my life to where I'm at now for and this is the thing that gets me I got a hardship discharge I spent three months in combat area out of those three months or three and a half actually two and a half of them were everyday in the in this stuff okay in the jungle and doing all that kind of stuff I still have permanent scars on both side of my legs from jungle rot when I was over there I used to bleed a lot for meat and stuff in the dirt and if there's any I don't know if there's anything they had but what I'm trying to say is I it's been with me for 32 years it's something I wouldn't wish on nobody unless they absolutely had to the second thing is is a young kid at 20 years old might be joining it for adventure and excitement but what happens what you do in war will stay with you the rest of your life and there's a lot of guys who are out here in this world today that we're in Vietnam just like me that we're probably combat even spent more time there than me either they probably don't want to talk about it or else they say they have no side effect but somewhere in their life between the time they come home until the time they die they got a deal with different things with it I believe well let me put it this way I don't know as far as I I've dealt with it okay in that I have not been in trouble with fighting or drinking in 17 years okay I cried a lot in it to my wife and I have a very good mother and I'm not a mama's boy or any of that kind of stuff but my one of my greatest fears after I came home was that I was gonna wind up getting myself into a fight defending my Vietnam veteran friends and I senior killed and then hurt somebody on the outside and wind up going to jail myself for something that two wrongs don't make a right you know there's one thing I think I've learned at least I hope I've learned it gets more than just saying it is that you can't take two wrongs and expect the third one to come out right if you do one wrong then the next one you should try to make a right and even if the first one wasn't wrong apologize for the first one even if you don't like to I mean that's I I had anger and bitterness in me for a long time and part of the reason I soften up as I'm older you know but that was one of my fears I that I would get mad someday because I was close a few times either get a few drinks in me or get mad and hurt somebody and and out of my anger and stuff when that was going on then the next day get on be so sorry there's a lot of guys in jail today for they're so sorry for what they did when they got mad and the next day they real they they give it up you know I'm saying that's what I was afraid of I had that fear now I don't have that fear I'm more of a more of an enemy to myself now you know I seen something in the Buffalo news about oral history for Vietnam and I figured I'd come down and tell you how I feel about would I would I feel and how I feel it's a affected me I don't feel as though I've been the same person since I came home from yet that I think I would have been if it wasn't for going there it was important to talk about and let people know well when you say oral history about it I guess maybe some of this I some of it should be said yeah because I think people should baby view something or see something before they're so gun hole to think that they're just gonna go and be a macho big war hero or something like that there's a price you pay for it I really believe there's a price you pay for it yeah no not really he's tiny much said it okay

Channel: New York State Military Museum

Views: 83,983

Rating: 4.7581863 out of 5

Keywords: Veteran., Military., 7th Cavalry Regiment, United States Army, Vietnam War

Id: u6g50zR1d-k

Length: 59min 38sec (3578 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 28 2015