Jack Ma and Elon Musk hold debate in Shanghai

ladies and gentlemen last but not least let's welcome mr. Alamos the co-founder and CEO at Tesla and check my the co-chair of the UN high-level panel on digital cooperation let's give them a very big applaud [Music] don't you have both of you here with us today the session is actually much awaited we've already posted some of the keywords the bigger questions on the big screen and later on you can just click the words you're interested in to talk about now the stage is yours what are you supposed to say um just things about AI perhaps okay let's see dad AII right you had a stutter where's AI yeah it is okay great yeah yeah actually I'm told that just AI mean love it like it's not there's like a name AI it sort of sounds a bit like that yeah III I hate the word AI called artificial intelligence I call it Alibaba intelligence yeah might might end up being true you know I think generally people underestimate the the capability of AI they sort of think like it's a smart human but it's it's really much it's gonna be much more than that it'll be much smarter than the smartest human yeah it'd be like you know if like can a chimpanzee really understand humans not really you know that just we just seem like strange aliens well they mostly just care about other chimpanzees and this will be how it is more or less in a relative and to in fact if it's if the difference is only that small that would be amazing it probably it's much much greater so like the biggest mistake that I see artificial intelligence researchers making is assuming that they're intelligent yeah they're not compared to AI and so they can of them cannot imagine something smarter than themselves but AI will be vastly smarter vastly so what do you do with the situation like that what do you do with situation like that I'm not sure you know hope I hope they're nice I mean I have obviously some you know I think in a situation where you if you you know that old saying if you can't if you can't beat them join them you know that's what neuro-link is about is like can we go be able to go along for the ride with AI I mean I really think that there should be other companies like neuro-link essentially to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain because the right right now we are already a cyborg we will not realize we are already a sidewalk because we are so well integrated with our phones and our computers the phone is almost like an extension of yourself if you forget your phone it's like a missing limb but the bandwidth the communication bandwidth to the phone is very low especially input so in fact input bandwidth to computers has actually gone down because of typing with two thumbs as opposed to 10 fingers is a big reduction in bandwidth input bandwidth has gone up because of video and an imagery so input bandwidth as many orders of magnitude greater than output bandwidth that at a certain points if we'll just assume it assuming a benign scenario with AI we will just be too slow to something let's say a computer that has like an exaflop of you know many x with lots of compute capability a millisecond is an eternity and to us it's nothing so you know I think I would say like human speech to a computer will sound like very slow tonal wheezing is kind of like whale sounds yep yeah because what's up bad with a few hundred vision about the technology I'm not a tech guy I think I'm all about life I think AI is going to open a new chapter of the society of the world that people try to understand ourselves better rather than the outside world and it's so difficult to predict the future 99.99% of the predictions the human being had in history about the future all wrong including that one oh yeah only you know the the 0.00% of the prediction or right there right because by accident yeah but it's also true that 80% of statistics are false yeah so my meaning come on guys buddy I'm happy about the artificial intelligence or alibaba intelligence that's going to understand a human the inside of the human better so when people worry a lot about artificial intelligence people should have more confidence in themselves because I think if a lot of solutions we don't have today the but there will be solutions tomorrow we don't have solutions for the young people will have solutions so I'm quite optimistic and I don't think artificial intelligence is a threat I don't think that if fish intelligent is something terrible but human being a smart enough to learn that and to me artificial intelligence is just like people worry a lot about this today are those people I called them called called college smartness people like us street smart we never scared of that we think it's a great fun and we want to change ourselves to embrace it I don't know man that's like famous last words this is let me tell you AI is I mean you look at sort of the rate of advancement just in general the rate of advancement of computers is insane and likely a good example would be video games you know if you go back 40 40 years ago or 50 years ago maybe you had pong that was just two rectangles in a square now you've got photorealistic real-time simulations with millions of people playing simultaneously if you assume any rate of improvement at all the I mean these games will be indistinguishable from reality you will not be able to tell the difference either that or civilization will end those are the two options but even if the rate of technology improvements slowed down by a thousand then okay advanced a thousand years yeah ten thousand years this is still very tiny I mean he civilization civilization has been around for probably you know arguably I think 7000 years or something like that if you counted from the first time there was any any writing any recorded symbols besides cave paintings this is a very tiny amount of time considering the universe is 13.8 billion years old I mean if civilization lasted for a million years we would would only increment the third decimal point after 13.8 billion years if we lasted for a million years so that seems like a long time given that we've only been around for seven thousand years it's been pretty it's been kind of a roller coaster on the civilization front I mean I'm not trying to be I'm a naturally optimistic person to be clear I'm not saying hey doom and gloom I'm just saying the these this is the apparent pattern the the rate of change of technology is incredibly fast it is outpacing our ability to understand it well I'm not sure is that good or bad I don't know I mean it seems to me some time ago with that you could sort of think of humanity as a biological bootloader for digital super intelligence if you're those in order bootloader is a very tiny piece of code without which the the computer cannot start but it's like the minimal bit of code necessary for a computer to start like you couldn't evolve silicon circuits you knew they needed to be a biology to get there good yeah well let's talk about something fun I'm Adam I'd that you want to go on the Mars shall we go to the Mars yeah yes so what will the life look like on Mars are you both moving what do you think about that I actually I'm not interested on Mars I just came back from there so I'm more interested on the earth the things what's going on happening here so what why you're so curious about the Mars well I think the thing about Mars is that I think it's important for us to take the set of actions that are most likely to continue consciousness into the future what increases the probability of consciousness of continuing into the future I think we should not take it for granted that consciousness will continue because we have not encountered any aliens where are the aliens this is the Fermi paradox this is one of the most important questions how come we've not found any aliens the people out there think we've got aliens trust me I would know we have not okay people ask me you've been to area 51 okay please the SpaceX actually has area 59 it's even better I hate better than 51 so I'm among the set of actions we can take that are likely to increase the scope and scale of consciousness such that we are better able to understand the nature of the universe one of those actions is to become a multi-planet species or ensure that life is multiplanetary not because I think something but it's not not from from the standpoint of it just being an escape hatch or because I think that Earth is doomed but there's a certain probability that is irreducible that something may happen to earth despite our best intentions despite everything we try to do the there's a probability at a certain point that some either external force or some internal unforced error causes civilization to be destroyed or sufficiently impaired such that it can no longer extend to another planet it's hard to say ever like that like never put another way this is the first time in the four-and-a-half billion year history of Earth that it's been possible to extend life beyond Earth before this it was not possible how long will this window be open it may be open for a long time or it may be open for a short time I think we should it would be wise to assume that it is open for a short time and and and then let us secure the future secure the future of consciousness such that life of the light of consciousness is not extinguished and we should you try to do this as quickly as possible that's my view good it's so difficult to secure the future of the earth but we can secure the future of next 100 years I am not the person that I admire your courage for explore the Mars but I admire a lot of people spend efforts on improving the earth it's it's great to send 1 million people to the Mars but we have to care about the seven point four billion people on the earth how can we make the world's most sustainable and I'm not that fan of the Mars because I think it's easy to go to the Mars when you go on the top of the hills of all the all of the building just the ones that we go to Mars we would never be able to come back yeah that's my idea networks though I hate to go to Himalayas - I mean when you climb on them I think someday I would go there when the end of it is ready I would go they have a look but I think people spending more time on the earth think about 1/2 because no matter how long the civilization of the human beings would be like one minute or two million or have many years that we only have 100 years so we cannot solve all the problems for future but we have to be responsible for the future but we should care more about how we can enjoy better my view is that by the artificial intelligence or AI when human being understand ourselves better then we can improve the water better last 200 years human being tried to understand the other side war better understand the other people better but I think what I feel excited about AI is AI to understand people the inside of the human beings the Earth's I heard you you gotta dig eternal and deep in the earth which is amazing I think on any how every time when I read the news about your interesting the outside space I look at you it's a great respect we need a heroes like a you but we need more heroes like us working hard on the earth improving things every day that's what I want sure I mean to be clear I'm very Pro us great that sounds great if you clear are very Pro Earth when I say you know that's becoming a multi-planet species or making life multi-line yonder 'the expanding the scope and scale of consciousness from a resource standpoint i'm talking about less than 1% of earth's resources should be dedicated to making life multiplanetary while making consciousness multiplanetary so you know i think it should be like somewhere in between how much we spend on lipstick and how much we spend on healthcare like but you know things like for the preservation of consciousness which has been maybe slightly more than we spend on on cosmetics that's my you know and i'm pro cosmetics i like that great but but you know this probably worth spending i don't know some like at least half a percent of Earth's GDP on extending life to be multiplanetary maybe 1% i'd say seems like a good a good use of resources and but in nineteen oh we have like two orders 19 more resources spent on earth so it's not like it's you know somehow gonna fundamentally impair us if likes is just 1% of both resources on that order should be enough to make life multiplanetary seems like a wise investment for the future and obviously i spend a lot of my time on a sustainable energy with tesla with you know electric cars and solar and batteries and that kind of thing and i'm really excited to be here in Shanghai for the the Shanghai gigafactory which is I think that Tesla china team has done an amazing job really mind-blowing like I've just astounded by how good the job is and how much progress has been made and I think it's a good story for the world and to say like look look how much progress you can make in China this is extremely impressive like my hat is off you know you guys Rock so I've never seen anything but so fast in my life before drew totally Frank I've seen some crazy things so you know I think it's like I really think China is the future well that's very impressive and there's also some great progress on entrepreneurial rocket companies in China as well I believe to have made orbit it's very difficult very hard to make orbit achieving orbit I have great respect it was very hard yeah pick up another topic sure yeah job jobs jobs are life jobs mystery venture so what new jobs will be created because of the AI or has the change already started what do you think I think why we needed that many jobs ha ha right my view is that the jobs actually every technology revolution people start to worry right last 200 years we're worried about the new technology gonna take away all the jobs actually we made a lot of jobs second because of the Industrial Revolution job create a lot of jobs what I think is the next or 2030 years human being will live much longer the live science technology is gonna make people live probably a hundred a hundred twenty years that may not be a good thing because you get a grandfather's grandfather still working hard but the challenge is my question why should we have a lot of jobs I think people should work three days a week four hours a day when we have electricity the power of electricity is that we make people more time so you can go to the kala okay in the evening you can go to dancing partly in the evening so people because of electricity people have more time I think because of artificial intelligence people will have more time enjoy being human beings in your life in my life I think I visit to probably 300 cities in my life my graph my father visited 30 cities my grandfather will visit only three cities so my grandchildren profit probably will visit the three thousand cities always alive he's always on the Tesla is always on the robots always travelling around so I don't think we need a lot of jobs at that time the jobs we need is make people happier make people experience the life enjoy the human beings so I don't worry about the job jobs a lot first we're gonna have love jobs second we don't need a lot of jobs third there's a very interesting thing which because we will probably talk about life in the agriculture period average age is like a 3035 years old in the industry period technology revolution people can live 70 years so in the artificial intelligent period people can live a hundred to the years as I think now the problem comes when people's life is getting better people don't want to have children we're brand grandfathers there you don't want have a children at that time we are going to have a lot of jobs with nobody old guys for sure you will not be happy or you were happy because when your grandfather said all I need to work tomorrow then that's a disaster so but we should be ready that we are going to enter into the area that everybody can live 120 years and we have a new more new problems that come up so that's my view about jobs don't worry about it we will have jobs yeah I think so if you're working on something that involves people or engineering it's probably a good approach you know art of course yeah like I said I think we're gonna have to figure out this neuro-link situation otherwise we will be left behind it's very important we do this quickly I think time we don't have much time we don't have much time for what we don't have much time to solve the neuro-link yeah yeah this is anything like technology like technology and technology awareness there's like it's like if it was like a topological map of technology awareness it's mostly flat with a few short buildings and then some very tall spires very tall spires and unless you're on that very tall spire it's not obvious what the topology is yeah I never worry about the things that I cannot solve I left other people to solve it if nobody can solve it just let it be that's my life oh let's talk about education I'm quite interesting about education can we yeah so what knowledge of skills will be useful to master the future do you have any advice for young professionals who want to pursue a career in AI young professionals I don't who you will have professionals or AI in the future well I worry a lot about people worried about jobs but I worry about education all the education systems the things would teach our kids the way we teach our kids mainly designed for the industry period and I'm sure the Machine will be much cleverer than human beings in the future how can human being do better human being should be smarter human be shall be wiser so how can we be human beings to be wiser smarter I think that we should change the way of Education change the things because in the in the past we'll focus a lot about you know remember things computer can remember better than you are we want to calculate the faster computer can rep can calculus faster we want a round faster computer can run much faster than you are so human being sort of confidence by be more creative more constructive so how can we teach our kids to be more creative and constructive and I think this is the key of the education and I want spending more time on training kids or arts on painting on seeing on dancing you know all these are the creative things that make people live like a humans don't worry about machines for sure we should understand one thing that men can never make another man computer is a computer computer is just a toy man cannot even make a mosquito so we should have a confidence computer only have chips men have the heart it's the heart where the wisdom comes from so I think in the next 10 or 20 years human beings or every country every government should focus on reform the education system making sure our kids be able to find jobs in the future be able to live in a life that only working three days a week four hours a day and that is very important if we do not change the education system that we are in we are all going to be in trouble that's my view and don't worry about it we will change it yeah yeah try and learn as much as much as possible that allows you to predict the future or make the future so the thing is the best way to predict the future is to make it just and then assess whether what you're learning is enabling you to predict the future with less error are you less wrong we're all always wrong to some degree but can you reduce the error on your future predictions I think that's the way to look at education as well of course but we're both creative create the future and predict the future so that includes art and all those other things but close the loop on being less wrong about future right so that's the right way to think about education I mean down the road with the neuro-link you you can just upload any subject instantly so we like the matrix you want to fly a helicopter no problem well helicopters will fly themselves but you know if you wanted to do whatever any any given skill you just upload it to instantly and the way education works right now it's extremely low bandwidth it's extremely slow lectures are the worst really it's like very slow yeah just try to predict the future with less error this is the hot this is very hard as you were saying not sure it's 99.9 percent but it's it's not very good generally at prediction of the future but I think often people don't try it the first thing is try if you don't try okay you know got it you go to try and then and then adjust based on the error of your prior predictions yeah I think just to try is very good we should always have the confidence to try the future and I never worry about the errors and the mistakes errors and mistakes that are the best assets of human lives and humans I think the one people worry about the disasters that AI is going to bringing I think it's not the disasters it's the mistakes that human beings make and Trust human beings will be able to correct the mistakes and improve themselves and that we we need education and this is what we think net China today we have 1800 new babies born every year which which is not enough we need we need to have like much more than that but I think the best resources of the human beings on the or the best resources on the earth and not the coast not the oil not the electricity is it's the human brains how can we make the human great brains more creative constructive how can we making sure that the machines are always the toys and tools of humans rather than the control so I never in my life and especially last two years where people talk about an AI say human human being will be controlled by machines I never think about it I think it's it's it's it's impossible ah well it's impossible because because human beings they are different machines are invented by human beings and according to the size right humans never create another animal that is smarting humans especially well you have so many smart people it's impossible to make another smart people I very much disagree with that okay yeah that's good yeah but I mean the first thing you should assume is that we are very dumb and wicked that we can definitely make things smarter than ourselves I mean the didn't used to be humans right so the then that our earliest civilization was very primitive we didn't have any technology really we're just like running around you know trying to not get eaten or just trying to survive a winter now we have like heating and we grow food this is all new stuff so you know things that have obviously gotten way more smarter than the past way smarter so that's going to continue we're not the last step in evolution so the most important thing like I said the most important was mistake I see smart people making is assuming that they're smart they're not yep so give them an example what the animals or things that a human being made that is smart a human beings what computers actually are already much smarter than people on so many dimensions we just keep moving the goal posts so we used to think like for example being good at chess was an example of a smart human and then Kasparov was crushed by deep blue in 97 that was a long time ago 22 years I mean right now your cell phone could crush the world champion at chess literally go used to be thought of as something that humans were veteran than computers then Lisa Dahl was beaten for was before 1 by alpha zero then a new version of alpha zero so I sir should say alphago alphago beat Lisa Dolph Warren then is alpha 0 alpha zero crushed alphago hundred to zero now it's just pointless because it just keeps playing itself humans are trying to play a computer go is like trying to fight Zeus it's not going to work you hopeless we're hopeless hopelessly inadequate in terms of rendering and basically there's just a smaller and smaller corner of what intellectual pursuits that humans are better than computers and that every year it gets smaller and smaller and and soon we will be far far surpassed in every single way guaranteed or civilizational and does the two possibilities okay yeah my view is that computer may be clever by human being a much smarter yeah that we're not clever this very academic is knowledge-driven smarter is experience driven computer is smart is clever but it's human being we invented the computer ooh I never see a computer invented a human being this is my first point second point is that about a goal play chess it's stupid to compete with a computer on play goal just like a hundred years ago where human being created cars so human being said I can run faster than a car it's impossible it's only stupid people to compete with a car who run faster girl is designed for human to play with human right the chess is designed for human to human why should a human to fight against a computer so I never ever Li play chess or go with computer I'll be happy to see two computers fight each other I'm not interested in political with chess so I told those guys they are very sad computer will be smart they're human beings because computer can't play chess better I think you are stupid to compete with that don't do that so this is always do things we are good at sure okay well what would be an example of something that humans are better than a computer act and and then let's see if that happens well humans computer is only one of the clever tools that human created and computers us a clever but there will be more tools that human beings will created much cleverer than computers that's my view okay well let me tell you like my view on the on AI is essentially the you can view the advancement of AI as solving things with increasing numbers of degrees of with the increasing degrees of freedom so the the thing that with the thing with the most most degrees of freedom is reality but AI is steadily advanced solving things that have more and more degrees of freedom so obviously it's something like like checkers was very easy to solve that we could solve with with classical software classical computing but not really all that challenging and in fact there is a complete solution for checkers meaning it is literally literally impossible every every version of checkers is known and then then there's chess which is also which also it had many many more degrees of freedom than checkers many orders nineteen more than checkers but still really I would say a low order of magnitude lower degree of freedom game then there's go which had many over 92 more degrees of freedom than than chess so it's really just stepping through orders of magnitude of degrees of freedom this is the way to I think view the advancement of intelligence yeah yeah and it's really gonna get to the point where it just can completely simulate a person in every way possible like many people simultaneously in fact I mean obviously there's a this is a strong argument we're in a simulation right now you know so reminds you that joke of like you know if if life was a video game what would be a little review that's like well the graphics are incredible as that the plot is confusing the respawn takes a long time yeah that's a video game that's life and they flap with a video game respawn take it takes 20 years to spawn a human being and have them be fully conscious I'm worried about the birth race which which you alluded to earlier the the contrary to like most people think we we have like too many people on the planet but actually this is this is an outdated view this is the assuming that AI is fine we're assuming that the AI is a there's a benevolent future with AI I think that the biggest problem the world will face in 20 years is population collapse collapse I want to emphasize this the biggest issue in 20 years we'll be population collapse not explosion collapsed the it's very easy to see what the world will look like in 20 years because humans have a 20 year boot sequence so like you said okay well who is born last year okay now you know what the world looked like in 20 years it's that easy I observe agree with that the the population problem is going to be facing huge challenge 1.4 billion people in China sounds a lot but I think next 20 years we'll see this thing will bring big trouble to China and the population decreasing of the whole the speed of population decreasing is gonna speed up now you got to collapse by accelerating closer accelerating collapse and then the commoner rebuttal is like well what about immigration like from where you know you want to go to spay you know the Mars and Mars were in the grip yeah more like with Mars these people yeah marks these people you know there's no zero people in right now so right now just a machine planet there's only some robots there this is something that we should pay special attention that's why the 18 million new babies born in China which was less than I go only like 1% of something we should have spent more time to create these people and treat life better but also I think about the AI there's another thing which alone I in my company in our company a I will call on Alibaba intelligent because we think when things with order with things with logic machine can do always do better at AI can do better but if things with an order without logic human being can do better for example when you love somebody there's no reason normally I just love him or just love her I have no reason but when I hate something body when I want to do bad things on something somebody there's a logic and with when there's a logic hey I can do better what we do on our and financing we you would teach machine all the bad things that bad guys want to do machine can learn quickly and arrest all the bad guys immediately but when you want to do good things not necessarily AI means love that's absolutely right so that is why the world the AI is if the way I can bring love which I caught in the past if you have your successful person you have to be helped and EQ and IQ right in the future if you want to survive in this world you have to be the L Q the Q of love that's important too otherwise you cannot survive in artificial intelligence time love is the answer yeah many songs about that you want to pick up the final one another topic use me gentlemen teach the time is very limited so we only have five minutes left so last question please yeah you want to pick up the last life or human being my strings so you want to talk about your car's ultimate autonomy what do you want to talk feel this feels like one of those steps in a videogame we would like pick a path a choice I choose life okay life so how much longer do you think people can live for with the helper AI can a I help with environment sustainability can you I think first of all I think humans will solve environmental sustainability I do not mean to suggest complacency or that we just take it easy in fact this is a self fulfilling one fulfilling prophecy we must we must take immediate and dramatic action and we you know we and continue the momentum towards environmental sustainability and China is actually the world leader in this in fact I'm not sure how well it is known outside of China just how much China is a world leader in environmental sustainability it's extremely impressive I mean I think half of all the electric cars in the world were made in China last year or something like that so you know I doubt it so I don't mean to suggest to suggest complacency but I do think humans can and will solve sustainability if we can if we can do the neural lace then I think or the neural link essentially the age will not matter that much you can simply save your state and restore your state like just like a saved game essentially something very close to that I do think we can we consult a biological aging if we really want it to you would have to make DNA changes but it's obviously just on a on a clock all organisms are I mean you could take a fruit fly for example and you could give it Yoda sort of have it do daily yoga and I have a very healthy diet and it's still gonna live for three weeks maybe four weeks so environmental factors on are relatively minor for extending life you have to change the DNA another question is like will people be okay with changing the DNA that's the the thing about extending life you know and probably people are a little bit reticent about that but that's essentially the thing that needs to occur to extend life you've got you've got to stuff the DNA clock somehow I don't know if we should work on this or not I think frankly you know it's it's probably a good thing that we do eventually die you know this is saying like in physics like even physicists which are generally quite objective is like saying like you know all all physicists don't change their mind they just die so maybe you know there's a it's good to have this life cycle yeah yeah well I think AI can definitely help the environmental sustainability and when human beings know themselves better human being will be smarter and will be wiser the difference between clever people and smart people or wise people smart people knows what he wants and how he can get it wise people know what he doesn't want so when human beings using artificial intelligence they will understand themselves better and I think there will be a minutes of ways people will live in a healthy earth and protect the healthier the reason why I want to stay in this earth I want to work on this earth I want to do anything I can to help this earth to better because even in a go to this space is great but if we can spend that resources just to focus on helping pick up the garbage from the oceans that thing is more difficult than to go to the Mars but artificial intelligence can help us achieving that and solve the problems and the second a human being can live better can live longer but what we need is not only lived longer we want to live healthier how can we live healthier it's to understand us better most of the disease opposed by our behavior so I think I'm 100% sure people will live longer people would live healthier but may not necessarily live happier if you want to be happier human beings you focus on a valley the vision and the mission and always have the dreams and I don't want people love to technology and put them dreams on the technology I think that technology should be with dreams it's the not technology change of the world is the dreams behind the technology that changed the world so my my hope is that anything we can do to improve this road to helping 7.5 billion people live better and live healthier and this is all about our world and I think we will be working very happily because I love your product Tesla you know making war cleaner and no noise and those such great technology I'm happy you have a de Factory in China and I think we need to do more things to improve this earth improve this world and make sure that people are happier and people care about the family people care about the house that's all we should do and trust us trust a human beings and trust young people let's take responsibility for today but let's not take away all the solutions for tomorrow it's great human being make mistakes it's great human being learn from mistakes it's great to die ha ha that's probably true thank you live long I feel like yeah thank you fight for the light of consciousness thank you thank you so much for this very inspiring and futuristic very informative dialogue it seems is the typical dialogue between the earth

Channel: New China TV

Views: 3,113,439

Rating: 4.7635546 out of 5

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Id: f3lUEnMaiAU

Length: 46min 51sec (2811 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 29 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/proudplantfather]

Jack Ma is a living Michael Scott

[u/[deleted]]

Still trying to work out what the fuck he meant?

[u/3005AD]

Jack Ma is a fucking joke.

[u/StackerPentecost]

What

[u/KamenAkuma]

Jack Ma is one of those people who got fucking lucky in life. Made a few right decisions and let the ball roll from there but if you take 2 seconds to listen to his shit you'd realise that he lives in his own little world

[u/jimmy5893]

Time stamp of the best part?

[u/danieliscool17]

This will probably be censored in china

[u/99problemsfromgirls]

The issue I find with Jack Ma is that he loves to get "deep" and make these grandiose, generalized, philosophical and metaphorical statements which can actually occasionally sound somewhat poetic and meaningful in Mandarin, but trying to do it English with his English skills just makes him sound like a /r/im14andthisisdeep kinda guy.

Also, to the people who are saying his English should be better because he took a bachelor's in English and taught English... lol no. For some reason, most of Asia's English as a second language is pretty awful. A bachelor's of English in China would be about the same as someone in the US having 2 years of high school Spanish.

[u/Giraki]

Jack Ma? Who’s Jackma?