Isaiah Saldivar Responds To Criticism

hey everybody Welcome to the wonderful world of Remnant radio today we've got Isaiah Salvador with us am I saying your last name right we should have done that you're good cool he is with us today and we are going to be discussing a few videos that we have made in the past regarding the Leviathan spirit in a 2021 Prophecy with Isaiah in it so honored to have him with us here today you guys stay tuned it's going to be an exciting program you were watching The Remnant radio a crowdfunded show where we interview pastors teachers historians and theologians from different churches and denominations my name is Joshua Lewis and this is my co-host Michael Roundtree together we want to help you break outside of your theological Echo Chambers if you're interested in learning about history theology or the gifts of the Spirit this is the show for you guys we've got an exciting program for you today but before we get into it I want to remind you that Remnant radio is entirely crowdfunded so if you want to support conversations like this there are links in the description for both PayPal or patreon you give a one-time gift there on PayPal or a reoccurring gift on patreon as low as five bucks a month you get access to extra content like videos we make with some of our guests and uh we get like book clubs and live q and A's and things like that so check those out as well I want to introduce everyone to our conversation today this isn't a heretic hunting this isn't a bride bashing opportunity many of you know that we are charismatics who uh violently believe in the gifts of the Spirit man we we really really believe in these things and there's been a rise of prophetic voices especially in 2021 and we saw a lot of Destruction there so we thought why don't we start making videos where we listen to prophetic words and show the body of Christ how to fulfill uh first Thessalonians chapter 5 19-22 First Corinthians chapter 14 29 which tells us to judge prophecy to let one Prophet speak way what's being said and to to not despise prophecy but to cling to what is good and reject what is evil so we've been trying to exercise that display that we've also done a series on Deliverance where we talk about hey what do we think about this Spirit or that Spirit lots of charismatic say these things we've picked some of the most popular videos on the internet on discernment and we've responded to some of those to help people think through some of those things critically one of the people that we uh have talked about in both of those segments was Isaiah I've recently been able to connect with Isaiah and build a I think a decent friendship with a guy really like his stuff in all of the videos we say man we like this guy he's not you know uh swinging uh uh to the wind when it comes to some of these prophetic words I think he's making contact with quite a bit of this stuff and then additionally with some of the discernment stuff there seems to be a lot of agreement on Holiness and how demons get in and how we cast demons out but maybe some disagreement on some of those nuances so without further Ado I want to introduce you guys to everybody today I've got Michael Miller what which way do I point that way Michael Roundtree right beneath me uh and Isaiah right there uh you guys decide to be here Isaiah thank you so much for coming on man we were talking about this before it requires quite a bit of Bravery to come on with three other guys that disagree with you uh but then to come on and just kind of discuss some of this stuff online I think it's going to be pretty fruitful um yeah I'm excited I told the guys I said look I have some friends in the chat some Pastor friends if they decide to jump me I'll call them in so hey some of my demons so you guys are ready to go in case no I'm excited man I'm honored to be on here I know it's fun I know you guys joke with each other all the time so I'm gonna jump in here as a fourth guy just messing with you guys joking please guys I'm super super excited to be on here I know God has a plan I know God's gonna move and uh yeah man any I'm always open to criticism I've always told people listen if I'm posting stuff online then people can make videos about it people can talk about it or ask questions and so I pray that today we're able to bring some answers to some of these questions and I don't know if I'm lagging on your guys's end I'm lagging on my end uh the internet looks fine but hopefully it clears out as we go so yeah I'm excited man thanks for having me on excellent yeah definitely definitely want to commend you for your boldness and coming on and uh excited that God's Building uh Bridges with you so so thank you so much and and Isaiah I was wondering too you have this like really Josh if you could show his background this really cool background and you know one of our Administration co-host Michael Michael Miller we call him affectionately basement boy and I was just wondering maybe you could give the guy a little help in his background and the aesthetic back there it's it's just be clear Josh set this up wall it's just naked because Josh was too cheap you can only do so much with the basement Miller there's only so much so uh anyway uh yeah so thanks so much for for coming on the show Josh uh so what do we have to look forward to today well Isaiah before we like dive into it I want to know a little bit about yourself tell us about yourself tell us about your ministry how do people follow you how do they connect with you I want to hear a little bit about your story before we dive into our content today um I think that there's a lot of areas of agreement and camaraderie and I would actually say probably the majority of things we agree on rather than disagree on uh so let's start there tell us about yourself tell us about your ministry before we dive into our subject today yeah so I was an atheist for years I got radically saved in 2011. I basically at the age of 16 decided I was going to be an atheist I was going to stop believing in God God wasn't real and my little sister begged me bugged me come to church come to church and for months so I told my girlfriend look we're gonna get her off our back we're gonna go one time and I'll never forget this man stepping foot in that church January 12 2011 saying this will be the last time I ever stepped foot into church again and again I apologize if I get emotional at all but it's like it's just so fresh in my mind and I walk through the door of that church in my mind going I'm never coming to church again I sat in the very back where they rope it off I mean this is how far I was just for those that are new to get a picture I was making sexual references about the Pat the pastor's wife on stage who's a worship leader I mean I was out there just in darkness had no regard no respect no Revere for God and the preacher preached a message about world missions which is like totally wasn't even relevant to me and I felt something drawing me to the altar I didn't know that the Bible says that no one comes to the father unless the spirit draws them but the Holy Spirit was drawing me to that altar for me it was like someone pulling on my shirt and I went to that Altar and basically I said God I don't F and believe in you and I didn't have the words to say I didn't have again respect for God I said but if you are real I'll do anything I'll I'll break up my girlfriend I'll move out of state I'll travel like I just started making all these crazy claims and you know the audible voice of God came said Isaiah I have a plan for you I don't want 99.9 of you radically changed my life I started speaking in tongues I didn't even know what tongues was I had heard it one time as a kid my parents praying it but I'm speaking in this unknown language I'm trying to cover my mouth because I'm like this is crazy my girlfriend's gonna think I'm crazy I think I'm crazy and I'm crying and just got totally radically and again for the sake of time God radically transformed my life I didn't sleep for three days I didn't eat for two weeks and uh just a Revival started in my home within four or five months we had you know four to five hundred people coming my old friends my family I mean it felt like everybody was getting saved it felt like my well my whole family got saved my brothers my sister my sisters my brother uh cousins uncles aunts I mean a real organic Revival broke out in my home with our family and we just started preaching and sharing my testimony and didn't know a lot of stuff I mean I was just so new to it all my uncle who was in Ministry 30 years came and and really was an overseer for me helped disciple me helped train me help teach me I ended up going to Bible College I have a bachelor's degree in Theology and this journey started so a year later we moved into a building then we moved into another building and for about a month shy of 10 years I seen your pastored that Revival church that was a Tuesday night service well at the meantime I was traveling three weekends out of the month about 150 000 miles a year throughout the U.S preaching and teaching at churches basically and a lot of you know just everything you can think of from charismatic to Pentecostal to non-denominational to one you know Baptist I mean from all over the place I started preaching and traveling and then 2019 um towards the end of 2019 I started God started telling me hey I want you to go online I want you to stream it was like three months of God speaking this to me and I said okay I don't really want to I don't desire to but I told my pastor and my uncle as well hey I feel like God is saying this and he said man I felt God's saying the same thing and so I started doing online January of 2020 at the end of 2019 I started buying equipment getting a studio going all that and then started live streaming of course not knowing about covid not knowing none of this I could share a little bit later of a word that I gave in 2019 about 2020 but again God just totally radically um launched our ministry online and so January we're online in my mind I'm going like why am I doing this why am I preaching to a camera I'm out of my comfort zone I don't want to do this if you know me I've never wanted to be on a stage I've never wanted a mic to this day I would be happier just cleaning bathrooms and living in the church sound booth I mean I literally say say this With all sincerity I have zero desire to be public figure to be known to be famous I get zero pleasure out of views numbers following um to me man I want to see people experience the power of God I want to see the Gospel of Jesus Christ go into all the nations and from what God spoke to me 11 years ago I'm living out today I've been married for going on 10 years this year I have four children I'm passionate for God I'm a homebody I'm a dad like a real dad like I change diapers I vacuum my happy places with my kids and so for me family's big for me I I live stream full-time I'm also part of a local church out here that I preach at regularly I'm under spiritual covering I'm a big part of that local church I'm no longer a senior pastoring because I felt like to do this full-time I couldn't be a healthy senior pastor and put out videos every single day like God was telling me what I needed to do online and so I decided hey instead of just trying to be a pastor and survive while doing live streaming while doing I'm going to sit that sit down from that be a part of a local church submit to a pastor which I am submitted to several pastors be a part of that local church help that church however I can and um preach there in whatever extent I can but full-time being obedient to God to doing the live streaming and by the grace of God we're reaching two to three million a week through Facebook Instagram Tick Tock YouTube um Spotify Google play I mean it's all it's I'm telling you it's all God I I wish I could sit here and say I did this or I did this but it's only by the grace of God it's all about God it's not the Isaiah cell of our show for me it's like the less people can see me the better and so that's kind of been my goal and my vision is just continuing to preach the gospel I'm passionate about Deliverance obviously I'm passionate about signs and wonders I'm passionate about seeing Believers get out of that apathy that complacency that religion religious Christianity where it's I just fill up a chair on Sunday morning like I did that growing up and that's why I'm so passionate as I was raised in church but you can be raised in church and not raised in Christ and so this is kind of the appeal I've always made some of my favorite preachers David Wilkerson Leonard Ravenhill so like I'm a revivalist at heart um it was only until August 2020 I started really preaching about Deliverance which I could share that later if you guys want as well but for me I'm big on Holiness if you've listened to me I'm big on repentance I'm big on Revival I'm big on going back to your first love getting in prayer um these are the things that I'm very very passionate about Deliverance is a thing that I started teaching in August of 2020 more more depth into throughout the 10 years I've believed in it I've cast out demons you know three days after getting saved I was casting out demons I've always believed it but it's been as of recent I felt like God was saying train up the church teach this there's not enough people doing this as you guys know so that's kind of where I'm at I probably missed some stuff but just for the sake of time I'm just excited to be here man I'm passionate about God I'm passionate about the people of God and all those people said hey the fire's gonna die brother you know you're going to settle down the passion that you preach with when you first get saved I could stand here 11 years later saying I'm more passionate today than I've ever been I'm more in love with God I wake up he's the first thing I think about he's the last thing I think about this is all I do to me it's like 24 7 I've given my life to this all we talk about is God oh I think about is God we all have a good praise break over here Michael's raising his hands in worship he's ready to take the altar card worshiping in response to your words no man I'm addicted to the presence of God an insane uh exhortational gift man like you you stoked the fires you you really are a revivalist I'm over here getting revised I appreciate it man no that that's my heart man I'm just super passionate about it um I went from drinking Four Loko and drinking and partying every day to prayer meetings I mean we were having man 24-hour prayer meetings prayer didn't stop it was just non-stop I was praying eight to ten hours a day it's just that radical fire that God has and I've I've always just been like man I want that I want God for real and again I I fight emotions talking about it because it's so real to me God is not something that I I know in theory it's not it's like job he's like I heard about you but now my I see you Isaiah said man I'm undone I'm a man of unclean lips and so I feel like that's where I want to stay even coming on today like I tell people I don't mind any criticism any questions like I had a call today and I haven't even told my audience this which this will be a whole nother thing but I didn't almost in you know 45 minute call today with a pastor who I consider a father about my video on tithing and he said hey by the way that video had about 70 000 views I was doing really good on the algorithm but he said hey this could bring some confusion let me show you why let's go to Hebrew seven and listen I sat there listening from a spiritual father saying you're right I'm wrong and about an hour and a half ago I took down the video and I'll explain why this weekend but my point is I've always wanted to stay in a place of humility saying I don't know it all when it comes to deliverance and prophecy I don't know it all and if you've ever watched my stuff I always say that like hey one thing I know about guys that are I would say religious or they're critical about these Ministries is they always know it all they'll never say well maybe I'm wrong they're always like this is what it is Deliverance is not for today Christians can have demons they give definitive statements for me I'm like hey maybe there's something I don't know maybe I was wrong about this maybe I need to go back and so I'm always doing this whether it's trivial the pre-trib or post-trib or tithing or whatever it could be as long as their non-salvation issues those are non-negotiable you're not going to debate that right the Divinity of Christ the resurrection and these are not these aren't arguments but when it comes to these things like is this really a spirit or is it pre-trib or post-trib I think we need to stay humble and teachable and say hey maybe you guys know more about this than I do or maybe I know more than you guys or whatever it could be and then just really collabing learning together so I'm just going to say that all of those areas are crazy tertiary like you said we will agree with the scriptures uh that there are the Authority for a Christian we believe in the Trinity the gifts of the Spirit we both agree on death Braille Resurrection You Preach against sin all of these areas we look at and we say yes and amen and in fact I would say that we have something to learn in that space of passion and Zeal when I listen to your videos I glean from that and Michael was over there praising and worshiping just now so so obviously we can we we glean from these areas and and I think that even in having this conversation uh we are not saying hey you got this wrong you know repent of this we're saying hey this is our perception of this we actually want to extend charitable brother love and say this is a Christian we've always said that in all of our videos of you and say hey we want you to give you an opportunity to respond to these so that it doesn't look like we're against Isaiah as much as it is hey this is an area of disagreement I think real Christian Unity for people who've been living on the internet Christian Unity looks like let's not talk about things that we disagree with I actually think that that's really displaying Christian unity and how to strive for the bond of peace to put out something we disagree with and let's let's kind of like wrestle over this together in love and charity and like you said these are tertiary issues this isn't a Salvation thing no one's being labeled a false prophet or a false teacher these are me and Michael were on the show yesterday disagreeing about Calvinism okay publicly this is what brothers do it's a good thing Michael I see your hand there on the mute button let me toss it over to you oh well yeah sure I I thought maybe Isaiah we could have you share about your your word pre-covered that was basically about covid and some of the aftermath of that because that's actually what sort of puts you on the radar for us that's right got us even listening to you because I think I remember right Josh that of the words that we tested for uh for going into 2020 or is after 20 whatever it was it was the 2020 prophecy yeah yeah this was one of the words you're like wow that that looks uh pretty much right so let me give the reason why we didn't share that though the reason we didn't we did a 2020 prophecy video where we did eight hours of prophetic words that we we we weighed and watched for eight hours and we we had Dr Michael Brown Sam storms Craig Keener Ken fish um uh Mike Winger all these guys from from all charismatics all believe in the gifts came on and weighed these things with us the only reason we didn't share that clip of Isaiah was because I didn't have the whole video and I couldn't find it anywhere uh and I didn't know if it was just one prophetic word amongst 30 other things stated and we've done that before where we we watched just a clip and turns out there was a lot more to that clip uh so that's the only reason we didn't share it and you and I you just had told me about where this had taken place and how I could find the video and a call that we had recently um but but yeah give us give give us like Michael said give us some of the the Insight on that word you want to repeat that question Michael I feel like I've I distract you I got you I think yeah I think just give us the setup for that because we can get into the stuff that we uh we're a little bit critical toward and you can respond we'll dialogue about it maybe learn from each other but before that maybe we can start out with just this word you had a big word about covid can you talk to us about that yeah so I do every year this prophetic conference I've done it for like I'd say nine years and you know there's people there that give these word of the Lords like Cindy Jacobs preaches at it Bill Hammond preaches at it Kent Christmas has been there every year for like 15 years and so I was they want me to give the word of the Lord now I'm the guy I every year would get up and just preach repentance I'm like look I don't have a word other than everybody needs to get right with God like if we're not if we're playing games with God we're messing around so that's always been every year and they're kind of like all right Isaiah's gonna get up and preach and it's not like they're like share I would have an hour right to preach and give a message and my message was always this is the year to give back to God to repent well this specifically in 2019 God had been giving me a real word I felt like God was giving me a word so I got up there this is on my page about a three minute segment and it really was three to five minutes it wasn't this long elaborate word but basically for three to five minutes and I can send you guys a full clip later I basically said and this is on record on the page from December 2019. I basically said 2020 would be the year of Internet Revival and living room Revival I talked about that God was going to invade through the televisions into every living room and that there was going to be some type of shutdown and that God was going to reach people through online Internet well at a mega church you know that seats about 6 000 people that's like not the most popular word to say God's gonna bring house Revival God's gonna bring internet Revival and everybody else if you guys remember for 2020 what were they saying this is the year of Clear Vision 20 20 Vision but in my mind I'm like that's as generic as it possibly gets right like 20 20 Vision so I give this word it wasn't like anybody wasn't no one was saying like that's the word of the Lord I was kind of like eh that was all right like I think you missed it and I had pastors calling me messaging me hey brother I think you missed it you know you're talking about house Revival living room Revival like I don't know what about the church and that was only for the book of Acts and now there's an established church you guys have heard the argument so I felt kind of like I don't know Lord did I miss it but I knew God was speaking that to me I felt that's what God was doing in the body of Christ and I felt so much that I spent you know twenty thousand plus dollars on camera gear and equipment to do this so I started January 2020 going through that living out that word hey I'm gonna live stream in the living rooms we had this whole thing called the living room movement living room um Revival this whole thing from the prophetic word March comes around everything shuts down and within three months it went from you know hey I don't know if that word's right to now every single person is in their living room online in their couch watching church for pretty much most of 2020 and so God Vindicated in the sense that a lot of these pastors that thought I was crazy called me back hey man you you had it you were the only one we can actually think of or named again not claiming to be a prophet guys I've literally given two public prophetic words in 11 years so I want to make sure that people don't think I'm giving out words every other video um but they said hey out of all the people we looked at you're the only one that said that there was going to be internet Revival a living room Revival and gave some type of language now I didn't prophesy that there was going to be a pandemic and a flu a sickness but there are other clips of me in the middle of the Year saying we're coming into a great storm in 2020 the church is not prepared there's going to be a great shutdown and I have those clips as well I can find but again the point was it was just a very simple word internet and living room internet I kept saying over and over anyone that follows a page saw that I was saying this over and over and it happened so I felt like man God really gave me a real word and then coming into 2020 I prayed and I felt like again now let me just make something clear for all those that are watching you know I know that I could see there's 540 people watching when I prophesy I oftentimes say I feel this because I don't know 100 like this is thus say it the Lord you know I don't speak King James when I prophesy I believe prophecy is an interpretation of what God is saying not a translation so we're not doing word for word King James when we prophesy but we're getting the general idea of what the spirit's saying and then fallible humans are trying to relate that word right prophecy is like words from God it's super simple yeah and so I felt like in the end of 20120 that God was giving me a word for the year I I knew I had this platform and these people following me and so I said okay let me sit down let me pray and this is what it came from and let me write down what I felt God is saying now we could go into that and talk about all the stuff that I said and whether it happened or not and what do I think about it but in my mind I said let me just jot down the ideas of what I feel God is doing I was wasn't in my mind and this is kind of just I guess what we will what we're talking about today it wasn't like let me predict events I didn't really have a predictive mindset trying to predict an event or this is going to happen in 30 days or anything like that I just thought what could I do to encourage the body Christ encourage the church what do I feel God is saying to highlight this year specifically and then I was going to do that but again we could talk about some of the criticism you guys had towards it of it being General it being vague that's where that came from I did send it to my pastor um and he looked at it said yeah I felt this is God and he posted it even on his page and then I I released that word as well so I know one of your guys's concerns was did a pastor even look at this was there an elder there was again I'm glad we're doing this today because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about me I think there's a lot of confusion about me because people see that I talk fast and I'm loud and so they're like oh he must not be educated because he talks too fast to you know be educated but I'm glad that we can get on here bring some clarity answer some criticism about you know some of the things I gave and some of the things I said but that's kind of the only two words have ever given I have 700 videos and I've only given two words so just got more education in Ministry than any of us in that none of us have a seminary degree of any kind so like you said you had a bachelor so Hey listen also you're okay my bachelor's degree has never held the sick it's never cast out a demon I've never laid it on a person so you know neither is my finance degree I heard that um let me preface with this Isaiah because I just want to make sure that our audience knows that we did give a criticism to your word and it wasn't because we're critical of Prophecy or critical of Isaiah it's because we actually love prophecy we love it so much in fact that we don't want anything that's negative out there in the prophetic to discredit what we actually value and believe in and so that's actually what we did the video is we we love this gift and we want to see we've personally been blessed by it and we've seen it bless others and we want that to be more widely accepted amongst the body of Christ amen yeah that's good Miller in fact first lesson Thessalonians 5 19-22 which Josh referenced earlier when it tells us to test prophecies it tells us that in the context of don't despise prophecy and don't put out the spirit's fire and the point is it what I have witnessed and what I think Paul is addressing in that text is if we don't test prophecy people begin to despise it and I think that's happened a lot in the charismatic movement is people just throw out prophecy throw out prophecy 2020 is this going to happen 21 that's gonna happen and they do this year after year after year and what happens is the profits aren't accountable nobody's testing it and so what I see is people begin to despise prophecy they don't want to do it you have to convince them hey this is actually a good thing well it's not a good thing because I had a bad experience with it nobody ever tested it and this didn't this didn't happen and this was wrong and nobody ever said they were sorry and so you know somebody uh you know I I could think of a prophet who predicted some stock market crash in such and such year and somebody who sold everything and you know and made in financial decisions because of this and and there's no apology there's no repercussions and so we have this sort of people running willy-nilly just throwing prophecies out there and it's actually our love and affection for prophecy uh and desire to be obedient to the scripture why we're doing this but um why don't we jump into Isaiah your 2021 word and we gave a review of this I I'm just gonna uh Josh how about this what do you think I'm just gonna read through really quickly what the word was and uh and then Josh and Miller maybe you could kind of feed in what some of our uh critiques were of the word we'll just kind of uh run through the conversation like that so uh for the 2021 prophetic word you prophesied a year of restitution and restoration that uh that God's Gonna restore what the devil stole that God is removing of the lampstands of churches that don't change he's gonna expose false prophets and pastors there's going to be a cleansing of the prophetic movement uh that ministers and secret sin will be exposed and stripped of their anointing that false churches will never recover from covid and the real bride will begin to manifest and growth and power there will be a reigniting a passion for those uh for those who are confused and apathetic that uh that God is doing uh giving new strategies and ideas for uh for Ministry and uh don't persecute the new thing that God is doing God is going to raise up the most influential celebrities and people of influence they're going to get saved and the church is not going to reject uh the church must not reject these celebrities a New Age movement Revival is going to hit the newspapers we need to be aware of I'm raising up a new breed of Christian Special Forces you felt like the Lord was saying and uh he's calling his church to expose Darkness not to conceal Darkness things are going to get worse before they get better they're going to be major Law changes globally a persecution uh breaking out against the church prodigals are going to come home uh Deliverance uh there's going to be a Revival of Deliverance the casting out of demons exposing the strategies of Satan a transfer of wealth from the wicked of the righteous and some of the church uh I don't know what that last one says anyway Isaiah how first of all Isaiah how did I do at talking as fast as I was about to say you did the delivery all wrong the delivery was all wrong bro and the volume just I think the only thing was I didn't say newspapers I said headlines but other than that everything really yeah newspapers like what's a newspaper but everything everything no man it's not easy to talk fast but it's uh it's how I've always been in fact I'll say I'm slow now I used to talk way faster I have to intentionally slow down because people say we don't understand you you talk too fast but hey I'm Italian and Hispanic so get over it yeah man there's this thing on YouTube everybody who's listening you hit that little gear icon you can speed down or slow up any video so uh yeah maybe you're just not listening with the right medium let me ask you this before before you hear any kind of critique from us before we kind of toss anything your way thinking about this word meditating on this word would you would what if you have done anything differently like what do you think about this prophetic word that you've released would you have done anything differently would have you changed anything just let's just start there first and foremost yeah so I think hindsight is 20 20 with anything um for this word again I said I prayed and wrote it down what I would have done different if I was going to go back and give this word again right or not release it and wait some time I would have definitely prayed into these topics more and been more concise and not as general saying this because I think a lot I think all of these things are something that God desires to do every single year I just felt like these are things that God is highlighting which we could talk about that some of them come to pass did they all come to pass and all that stuff after but for me I guess the biggest thing I would do if I did this again I didn't do it this year but if I did it again would really say okay let me take some of these things flesh them out more and say how could I be more concise and more accurate so that it could be judged I guess it would be easier to judge it now I will say though about prophecy as I one thing I would I wouldn't push back but I would say that you guys maybe maybe you did I didn't watch the full video just to be honest is that on Prophecy in the New Testament is not always predictive like I I know you guys believe that you guys teach that First Corinthians 14 3 three one who prophesies strengthen others encourages and Comforts them so prophecy again it encourages it strengthens it builds people up it Comforts it's not always um predictive in nature so I would say there are a lot of elements where it's like oh prodigals are coming home Revival in the home now if I said that is it predictive in nature it can be but it also can be an encouragement Hey listen have you been praying for your prodigal this could be the year I believe God is bringing them there's Revival happening in homes which we're getting messages as an unprecedented level of people saying my entire family got saved just like what happened in 2011 we're seeing that we're seeing Revival in our garage we're seeing Revive on our living room we're you know we're seeing God move and so I think it did I think that did happen but again could we concisively say that's something that God did well yeah God does that every year but I think for that for example that portion would be more of encouraging than it would be predictive so that's where I would say I think I would change I would try to be more concise going forward looking at your guys's critique and saying okay maybe this came off as way too General way too vague and Broad maybe I should hone in on this more be a little bit more specific and maybe only focus on the parts where I feel are very specific or maybe I could have and this something you guys might be able to give me advice on maybe I could have said hey this portion this portion is prophetic in nature but it's more of an encouragement and then this portion is more of a predictive prophetic word I want to give and then I think if I would have broke him down it would have been more room for people to say oh he's encouraging here he's exhorting here he's comforting people here and then over here he's predicting hey our minister is going to be exposed well I mean we saw Carl Lentz we saw Ravi Zacharias some of the most influential leaders Brian Houston get exposed last year so I think that did to an extent come to pass as well but again I think breaking it down and I would love to hear your guys's thoughts on it but I think putting them in categories could have been beneficial yeah there's somebody put on the chat section back pedaling I I disagree with that I think he's actually honestly evaluating a word that he gave and learning from it which is what we want for all of us so it takes a lot of humility to come out of somebody's show and say yeah I regret this so I I commend you for that um I think and yeah Paul's back pedaling I would have deleted it for sure it's just not that's not a fair uh criticism um so you've already said this that you wish that it had been more specific less vague it's not always a foretelling we're actually completely in agreement on that um and I don't really have anything else to push back on that's really that was really my my major uh beef with it all um but I would say like one of the things that we're endeavoring to do Michael Roundtree and I are going to be in Orlando Florida this weekend doing a conference with our Mentor he'll be he will literally be training in Prophecy hearing God just talking about that and Michael and I will be demonstrating some of this stuff uh and Michael's even bringing somebody who he's mentoring and training in this and one of the things that Jack always told us one of the things that we're always telling younger people that we're sort of raising up um is we we don't want you to uh give a vague word and here's why if you give a vague word that cannot be tested it would actually cause people to despise prophecy there's no way for them to approve or deny what you said and so you're always going to look good at the end of the day um but if you get something wrong well here's the good news is taking that kind of risk allows us to know there's freedom to make mistakes there's not going to be a major penalty for it you just simply own it and move forward but if you get it right well then everybody gets the benefit of that prophetic word being accurate it was tested it was so specific that we could know right then and there is this true and when that happens you'll find that suddenly there's faith in the room people are giving their lives to Jesus people are coming up for to receive prayer that were previously skeptical of it and so the more uh the more we strive for specificity the better off I think we all are on a grander scale when Michael and Michael were with Jack and you guys have been with Jack for it feels like 20 years y'all cut me off and for those who don't know Jack dear is the one you're talking about yeah so a theologian Pastor author and his uh taught a whole lot on the gifts of the holy spirit so yeah so you guys saw you I was with you guys in Houston a couple of times and y'all get up and give prophetic words and we'll all go back to the hotel afterward and and Jack was like okay guys what did we learn what about that word you missed like what do you think that was you let's pray about that and what about this and and they're they're 20 years deep into this thing and they're still you know weighing in and going you know I should have been more clear here and that I interpreted that when I should have explained that or I really shouldn't have explained what I saw I should have just given what I thought the interpretation was and like they're sitting there wrestling you know again 20 years into it the same way that any good pastor preaches a sermon and then afterward you know State takes a step back and examines the labor that he put into that and gone well could have tied this illustration in better and and you learn from the practice of this activity and that's a good thing so Isaiah it looked like you had a question there yeah the question I would have is if you're giving you know I've seen some words where you'll see somebody in prayer for example and God may give you a word of knowledge hey this person's struggling they're tired they literally said and I've had this happen to me and so I'll give you an example before they walk through they said this will be the last time I come to church I'm just tired and weary I'm on the verge of giving up there's a lot of people in the church at this place I want you to go up to them and encourage them tell them I see what they're doing keep pressing keep praying God is hearing you don't be discouraged that was that's the whole word right there right that to me is not super specific or even predictive or even that precise it would just be I got a word of knowledge and I'm hearing God say this I don't know but God is telling me to tell you to keep going I mean I've given this word before and I'm like this is so not not prophetic right and the person breaks down crying and you guys I'm sure have all had this happen to you as well and they go man that was exactly what I needed to hear I was literally just praying Lord I need something from you I'm tired I'm weary send me some type of sign and then five seconds later you tap me on the shoulder and you say hey God if I was just saying keep going the only reason why I would push back a little bit on the more precise the better is that I would say say people watching this get that type of word they might say well it's not precise enough I need to be more detailed and that's a good idea especially with like words of knowledge and I've given addresses before social last four Social Security like I believe in this I believe God does this but it also at times and I I appreciate that prophecy because to me it's like hey the more precise I agree the better but then also when you're teaching basic I don't want to say basic Christians that sounds terrible but you're teaching regular Christians that are not in the office of an Ephesians 4 profit they're not in that profit's office they're just doing what I call like simple prophecy I think starting out saying hey it doesn't have to be this crazy elaborate specific word because for some people they look at prophecy as I could never do that and Paul says all of you can take turns prophesying one by one he says all of you can so I I would say I just I try as well to demystify it and not make it seem like only special people can do it has to be this elaborate thing I don't think that's what you're saying uh Michael Miller but I I do think um sometimes simple it's powerful yeah yeah yeah so the the when I'm what I'm talking about is on a public platform the word that we were okay gotcha there's a word that was given to the whole world um God it comes to private words I'm far less concerned about that the reason why the public platform uh needs to be more specific is so that everybody who hears it gets edification and not just the the singular person on the receiving end of it right so like okay you're talking about just prophecy period I thought you're just going on I should have been I should have specified yeah when Miller was at a conference we were at convergence he gives a I don't think I was there for this event but it was a prior convergence uh he tells a gentleman in the front I think it's like you will survive like God says you're gonna make it or something like that and um the guy had just been praying the night before like will I survive will I make it through my divorce or something to that effect I'm butchering the story a little bit uh it seems very vague well the the idea is that the word seemed vague to everyone listening but it was very specific to the individual right yeah that's saying thing though when you take it back further like thus saith the Lord in this room of twenty thousand people I sense that someone has back pain not really prophecy everybody like the chairs are crazy uncomfortable one in three people statistically have back pain you know so it's just like that's that is the kind of so when we talk about vague like you know uh the transfer of wealth right like is there ever a season when God doesn't transfer the wealth of the record into the hands of the righteous like no that happens all the time God says he does that right um when we talk about vague you know um there'll be major laws changing globally sure but like that happens all the time it's things where we go and you admitted it yourself you're like well it was probably vague in certain areas uh that it wasn't in others do you think that there was anything in here um that was expressly wrong do you think there's anything that you heard that was that was explicitly wrong that you were like ah man I wish I would have prayed about that more or maybe I delivered in a different way that would have been clearer um help us process through that yeah I wouldn't say necessarily wrong because again I felt like God gave me this word I don't think any of it is anti-biblical and I don't think any of it just didn't come to pass like for example the Trump prophecies like it was clear those didn't come to pass those were and yeah and if it was I would be the first guy to be publicly like hey guys I got the Trump thing wrong I know people are gonna hate me for saying that because people got mad that people apologize but it is what it is but for me again I think some of these were just vague and they're hard to test but in my mind I wasn't like oh people are going to be making videos and testing and stuff I just thought hey this is a word I jumped on let me go live let me give this word that I feel like God is saying to the body of Christ and you know I have a massive you know I think it has like almost 300 000 views so it's not just going to be like another word that gets drowned out in YouTube so there will be obviously the bigger you get the more criticism you're going to receive you know there's 700 people watching if there's five people that are negatively chatting right now saying Isaiah is this or Isaiah's false that that's going to outweigh the hundreds of people that are commenting saying man I love this mystery love what you guys are doing I love the convo just because the negative always stands out over the positive that's how anything happened or that's what anything in that happens so for me I would say yeah some of these were just vague they were hard to test and again if I went back I would say again I would try to be more precise on these I wouldn't do this General vague word again because even watching it back I'm like hey that could have been more precise if I'm gonna say God is transferring wealth or doing this in which in what way do I felt God is going to do that is it going to be online is it going to be in businesses is it going to be through real estate you know what I'm saying I would have been dig a Little Deeper so I agree with you guys on that totally I think we're in agreement on that and then thank you Miller for clarifying because I I didn't recognize you were saying from from the staged corporate a corporate word obviously those watching probably most of them know there's a difference between a corporate prophetic word than an individual prophetic word but um yeah that's what I would say if I could go back I wouldn't back pedal I wouldn't say oh no this wasn't the word of the Lord I genuinely feel it was I still feel it is I would just say there's too too much vagueness in some of these topics um I could have cut it down and said okay maybe God's telling me these things but maybe and this is another thing maybe they're not all to share maybe not every one of these were to give to the internet for 300 000 people to hear maybe some of these were for my own edification or my own encouragement or so maybe I should have spent longer time prank saying Lord are you sure is this really again these are all things that we prophesy in part we're all fallible for sure um I don't think anybody has the precise perfect word we're not over here writing Canon guys this is not a Salvation thing I think all of these are congruent with scripture I think any prophetic word that's not congruent or harmonious with scripture should be completely voided out as false but I think when there's things we just can't test we say hey it's just too vague for us to know God probably did but I will say this um and this is not a pushback but let me just say I would be careful saying like hey did new agers get saved did the occult get saved because I could say I had at least a thousand messages last year we get about two to three hundred messages a day on all of our platforms and I would say just last year at least a thousand messages of hey I came out of the new age this last year through some of your videos hey I came out of the occult this last year so I would say that could be relevant now I'm only one guy there could have been many other people I don't know man I I saw at least a thousand people through just messages I've read saying hey I came out of the occult I got saved from the occult I did I do think a lot of the elements I describe are happening were happening as far as let me just give another one Deliverance being mainstream I think anybody that's online or in the church it's safe to say Deliverance was talked about more in 2021 than ever before at least every Pastor I've been connected with um has been talking about it has been asking about it has been even pastors don't agree with that have never really talked about it much are now disagreeing with it in 2021 so there has been a mainstream when it comes to Deliverance at least like what I've seen like like never before you know let me just give you an example um we added a thousand people in 2021 to our deliverance map and that's basically a map where believers who do Deliverance can go they sign up and now they're on a map and those that need Deliverance can reach out to their other brothers and sisters in their area and get delivered baptized in the Holy Spirit baptizing water whatever it could be because the problem was people were saying you preach on casting out Devils but there's no churches around me that will do it or pray for me so we made this map it's about close to 2 000 people on our map right now on our website but last year we added a thousand people so I think that was another prophetic word coming to pass that the map that Deliverance would grow would become mainstream that God would raise up what we say you know these Special Forces and again that's just a a fun way of saying people that are engaging people that are going out there preaching the gospel casting out demons Healing The Sick they're not sitting on the sidelines they're not just you know carnal lukewarm sitting back they're actually out engaging so again some of the stuff I would say definitively I think did come to pass but some of the stuff I guess would be too vague to um say yes or no yeah yeah you know I think my thoughts on this is the fact that you're on here right now and we're basically testing your word together for me if you do that if you give words for 2023 or whatever and then you come back and you test them and you review and you say okay guys this was right this was wrong whatever I feel way more comfortable with that my biggest issue is with those who never test their words and they never respond to the criticism when people say hey that thing you predicted didn't happen because while you were predicting there's going to be a Revival in the home the rest of the prophets were predicting that the stadiums are going to be filled and there's going to be a massive Revival that's right in churches and they're going to be lines coming out of churches I mean we reviewed these kinds of words and they're not accountable so the fact that you're actually being accountable uh for your words man I I just again want to commend you for that I think if anything you know to speak into the general versus specific even on a public platform I do think there is a place for a general word here's an example of yours God is removing the lampstands of churches that do not change okay now that is actually just always true we know that from Revelation 2 God speaks it over the church in Ephesus I'll take away your lampstand because you've forsaken your first love but this is one of seven churches that's paradigmatic for churches throughout all time that churches that forsake their first love are going to have their lamp stand taken away they're going to lose their church so we know that that's a truism we know that that's generally true but I think that if we looked at the statistical data we could say you know what covet actually did legit kill some churches that actually legit needed to die I mean I yeah I I know anecdotal evidence from Just Around neighborhood and just churches that I see and churches and pastors that I have known and and churches that are being shut down and a lot of them to be quite honest needed to be shut down so I think that it's it was General but it was also true and I I think there can be a place for General words at my church we we do prophetic mystery from the stage every Sunday and uh over individuals lives and some people come up and they share General words what I tell them what I tell our prophetic teams is I say hey some general words are okay but if we give all General words that's not okay there needs to be like a decent mix where there's there are enough specific things in there that can be tested that gives a little more Credence to the general words that we do share and and you know I look at your list and I will say I think there were some things that you were pretty specific about and uh and you know there's a decent mix I I think maybe if it was like you said Isaiah if it was a little more concise it's almost like there's so much it's hard to test it all um but like a little more concise and um and if you come back and test it I you know I feel okay about it and that's actually what you're doing coming back and and responding to criticism so man I got a question in that vein do you think that like like you said this is definitely a word from the Lord uh and I think when I watch this video I I was thinking man a lot of this seems to be within the care of God do you think maybe that even the delivery on who it was directed to like I mean I think of 2021 as a year of not just of great prodigals coming back I actually look at it as like a huge time where people are walking away from the churches by the droves churches were shutting down left right and Center uh there's a huge apostasy of people especially in the charismatic movement who would listen to all these Trump prophecies and well God doesn't know the truth and why are we going to serve him and people are walking away there's huge apostasy taking place do you think that maybe some of this word was localized for you and your context potentially that it was it was released to everybody but that like you said you're getting thousands of messages of people coming out of the new age I mean I haven't heard that I didn't see that in headlines but it does seem as if it did happen and you actually see proof of that in your own personal life do you think possibly these for sure words for the Lord might have been more localized and I'm only again trying to be charitable here going okay yeah this makes sense we've given words before over a group over a family and it was actually more specific than than the broader Community uh what would you say to that that maybe maybe this is more localized yeah I mean it's definitely true I think the bottom line is if I had a thousand followers it wouldn't even be it wouldn't even be an issue because you'd say oh you got 100 views and that was for his 100 people it was a it was a you know precise word but because the the audience is so large it could seem like man this was a huge word for everybody when in reality I was like hey that's what I feel like God is saying to the body of Christ even with like celebrities you know I'd mentioned to you we we have someone that were uh pastoring and helping that has 10 million subscribers on YouTube and other people that are celebrities that we wouldn't just be able to say hey this person got saved hey this person got saved but there is a great room uh Revival happening even in the removing of the lampstands you look at like for example Hillsong right now you see sure I don't know how many of their pastors have left and they're massively losing influence right now and because there was this scandal after this Scandal is God removing the lampstand and we know the lamp stand is indicative of influence bringing light where there's Darkness um that was God's prophetic way of saying hey you're no longer going to be influential I'm going to remove that lampstand so again I believe believe some of these things but they could be I don't know they could be just to a certain audience just to certain people but again I think I would have categorized them a little bit better another thing I just want to add to think about something that I think about when it comes to prophecy I know I hate to say this but I know as like charismatics and as people that are spiritual we're hungry for God we always want something new to happen in reality God is the same yesterday today and forever and God does new things of course right God reaches new people but in general what God wants to do is pretty much the same every year God desires to deliver so there are I feel like yes emphasis is like Deliverance was a major emphasis at least that I could say um I have I've preaching probably close to 500 churches so I do have a pretty good connection with a lot of pastors throughout the country I can't say throughout the world because I'm I don't have a connection throughout the entire world to pastors but I would say from all my friends that I know my pastors throughout the country I preached in probably 35 Plus States for many of them they were are open to Deliverance in 2021 like never before and and these other topics maybe as well so I would just say yeah absolutely I think some of these things were um specifically got targeting but I am leery of saying like this is a new thing God is doing this is a new thing God is doing this is a new thing God is doing this is a new thing God is doing because again God wants to do these things every single year and I I was I am emphasizing on this is specifically like the new age like the celebrities like the pastors being exposed like the um the prodigals coming home the living room revivals type of thing so yeah I know we can go along on that but that's kind of I think I think we've covered as much of the prophecy thing unless one of you guys want to would chime up and we can talk about some areas of agreement when it comes to Deliverance because uh again the vast majority of your videos on Deliverance that we've watched I I think there's a large bit of agreement on uh how demonic activity can oppress individuals how we get those demonic activity out if I had to get like a 5 thousand foot view a real quick synopsis from you on how do people get demonized right uh can Christians be demonized we'll kind of walk through some of these questions and I'll remind you them one after another but first one you can you can tackle is how do people get demonized we got a few others in there but but tackle that for me real quick and I think that there's going to be quite a bit of agreement from us with you on the subject yeah so I would say demons are obviously looking for a body they want to live inside of a body uh Jesus talks about a demon coming in a house in Luke 11 24 where we literally our houses that demons want to come live in and so he describes I won't go through the whole thing that he teaches but basically demons need an Open Door uh this idea that a demon can just jump on you randomly is not scriptural the Bible says a curse can't land Without a Cause there has to be a legal right or reason for a demon to enter you for me in my experience any Demon I've ever dealt with or cast out of somebody that talked back which not all of them do we can talk about that as well they said there was a reason or there was a reason or legal right or a purpose for them being there so yeah demons want to come into people they Demons of lust they need a body to lust through Demons of alcohol need a mouth to drink through Demons of Rage need someone to rage through right so they do crave a body they are bodyless because their Spirits Spirits don't have obviously physical body so they look for bodies I would say a couple ways number one would be sinful acts sinful habits if you look at like First John 3 8 says whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil I mean think about this whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil for the devil's been sinning since from the beginning the reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil so we see John connecting the practice of sinning with the devil and that's a big major open door now there's a difference between I want to note this the practice of sinning and sinning sinning one time is not practicing sin practicing sin is when you do it over and over and you get good at it and that's the point of practicing like why do I practice football why do I practice basketball it's to get good at it and people say well brother how do I know if I'm good at sin it's when you're no longer convicted it's when you're no longer wounded when it no longer hurts you to sin when there's no that not that turning that Holy Spirit conviction I would say that's a good indicator that you're good at sinning so when you make things uh sins habits or they become habitual that becomes an Open Door in my experience for a demon to enter in if you look at Matthew 6 22 the Bible says the lamp is the bot the lamp of the body is the eye if Therefore your eye is good your whole body will be full of light one translation says your eyes are the window of your body when your eyes are good you will have the light that you need and so not Only Sinful habits but what people watch you know again I know I'm not out of touch with people watching right now I know there's people watching that say brother this is crazy a demon can't come in through a movie a demon can't come in through entertainment a demon can't come in through sinful habits but again most the people that criticize Deliverance the most are those that do it the least so when you actually get engaged on the front lines you start realizing man these are open doors like I had one situation I was at a pastor's event and or a Revival event there was a lot of pastors there and again this is just an experience I'm not saying there's a verse right here that says this but I was with some really well-known famous pastors and one of the the leaders on the pastor or staff started manifesting at the altar was manifesting a demon was screaming growling the whole thing and we go up and start praying for her and the Demon's not coming out and one of the pastors is like what what spirit is this and the demon says Wizard of Oz now I can stop and say I don't have a verse for that I don't know where that's at in the Bible or I can be like okay I don't know I'm just going to get it out of you I don't care if it's Wizard of Oz I don't care if it's Harry Potter it doesn't matter to me what matters is we're going to get it out of you and goes on to say after the girl got delivered we asked her about it the pastor who was her Pastor said that was so weird the spirit's name was Wizard of Oz like that's weird that how is that a spirit and the girl said what's crazy is growing up she had gone through some abuse and some other things and she used to watch The Wizard of Oz and she would get in the corner of her room when she had gone through some abuse in some situation she went through and she would rock back and forth saying there's no place like home there's no place like home and she had decorated her entire house in Wizard of Oz this is a grown lady I'm talking about and the Pastor said and she said that her whole house was decorated Wizard of Oz her kids were there anyways it was this whole testimony of The Wizard of Oz and so I'm not gonna go make a video on The Wizard of Oz Spirit praise God say that this girl in her own way said man this must have come in through my addiction to and my obsession with the Wizard of Oz right so these are things where it's like we don't have necessary verbiage for or necessary verses for but they are real realities so that's the thing watching things we're doing occult practices obviously like fortune telling astrology yoga Ouija board sorcery divination ritual ceremonies pretty much any occult practice you can think of as an open door to Demons one thing I'll add and the last thing I'll say that I commonly is an Open Door is trauma and abuse and this is something that I think isn't talked about a lot but many times demons come in not always because of what you did but also what's been done to you and then I know the chat everyone watching is saying brother that's not fair How could a demon come in when someone did something to me and the answer is the devil's not fair show me one place in the Bible the devil's fair when he's out killing people murdering babies and everything else that he's doing in our culture so yeah I've dealt with hundreds of people that have had demons through sexual abuse mental abuse emotional abuse physical abuse um I had one girl who was the a youth pastor's wife that we dealt with the demon said I came in when she was eight years old her mom punched her in the face and that's when I entered her and I've been here since she was eight we weren't asking the demon for the information we weren't saying when did you come in what are you doing the demon voluntarily spoke out of her and said I came in here at eight years old when her mom punched her and beat her so again these are a lot of the ways these demons could enter are there other ways probably are there other situations of course there are but for me I don't think we need an exhaustive list I think that um these are some of the major ways that they come in and and it's real I think that guys that preach against this and again not throwing shade at anybody in the chat or any Pastor watching I would just say you're out of touch you're out of touch with people that are really hurting I sit with people I talk to people on a weekly on a daily basis that are hurting that are broken that are really dealing with a voice telling them just take your life nobody cares nobody loves you and they sit there contemplating suicide I deal with people that are addicted that say Isaiah I want to give this up so bad but there's something talking and living in me that's drawing me to this I'm not talking about the flesh so these are real people hurting and broken and if you're not a pastor or leader in this world in this I'm in this world of Deliverance or this realm of casting out demons which we know Jesus did the disciples did they did it in the book of Acts then you could easily get out of touch and say oh that's not a demon that's not a demon that's not an open door but when you're like down in the dirt with some of these people that are really broken you start realizing man these people are really hurting and these things are open doors and uh I got the answer man I got the Holy Spirit I got the power of God I have authority Jesus has given me and so yeah those are some ways dude I I love what you said about uh you're not gonna take this experience and turn it into uh some kind of Bible teaching about how to cast out demons you gotta cast out the Wizard of Oz Spirit or something like that because that's been one of the major issues that we've routinely criticized when it comes to Deliverance teachers is they say well I experienced this and then they make it a paradigm for every believer everywhere that this is how you you cast out demons and for us we look at that and we say man that's endangering the doctrine of sufficiency of scripture second Timothy 3 16 and 17 all scriptures God breathed and useful for teaching rebuking correcting and training of righteousness so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work the scriptures give us everything that we need for life and godliness everything that we need for being thoroughly equipped in every good work and if there are secret tactics to casting out demons that aren't in the scripture and I need to follow such and such teacher in order to find those secret tactics that's where we we start to enter into this territory of endangering sufficiency of scripture so I love that you said that uh and I I've experienced the same thing with uh casting out of demons some the demon will say some weird thing it'll identify itself in some way you know we did our episode on the Jezebel spirit you guys in the chat and go back and watch our Jezebel spirit episode and and we talked about is their scriptural support for this we looked at Revelation two we looked at Jezebel in the Old Testament Etc and um and you know we we came to the conclusion that you can't definitively say that there is a Jezebel spirit now that was our conclusion and uh but we also said it doesn't mean there's not a Jezebel spirit or a jezebel or a spirit certainly there are spirits that cause people to do jezebel-like things uh do we call it a Jezebel spirit well I had a a congregation member come up to me after that episode she said I was casting out a spirit once I said what's your name and it said Jezebel she's like what do you what do you think I should have done I said I would have told Jezebel to ago and she said but you said The Jezebel spirit's not real I said I didn't say it's not real you would have told the two eunuchs to cast Jezebel down so the dogs could eat the spirit all over Israel you can always count on Josh there but any anyway there's a difference in my mind between what we experience uh just an interpersonal uh situations and we're casting out demons I'm not going to go ahead and turn that into a teaching and maybe this can can transition a little bit into our conversation about the Leviathan spirit and I can't remember if we could criticized anything you said about a Jezebel spirit or not to be quite honest uh Isaiah but but that is where you know we didn't we didn't see evidence in the Bible that there is for sure a leviathan spirit that does these things or there's for sure a Jezebel spirit that does these things let me toss it over to Miller real quick he's got to catch a plane so he wants to say bye to everybody yeah well I just I love the the conversation Isaiah super thankful to get to meet you I would love to connect in the future and I would honestly love to do an episode with you where we just Swap War Stories of casting out demons let's do it again man I'm down yeah that would be a lot of fun uh and and just so you know I've cast out demons with a name like Jezebel or something like that though I would never make it a a teaching uh but I've seen it happen multiple times where something will tell me its name and I'm going okay let's cast out a spirit that's of Malik I had that happen uh actually about three months ago where something was calling itself by an ancient Canaanite deity and alone okay let's deal with it um but I didn't see that uh particular demon in the scriptures anyway uh yeah did you did you I would love to turn around and write a book about it and and turn it into this mainstream Christian teacher look at our common friend to publish it oh boy that was a low blow okay cheap shot uh Michael inside you guys just gonna toss it back to you man finish up that statement sorry yeah okay so maybe we can jump to uh the conversation about the Leviathan Spirit specifically because we're we're starting to get it into the Demonic and and we did just like we did an episode on the Jezebel spirit we did an episode on the Leviathan Spirit we looked at the references to the Leviathan and scripture you guys can go back and watch it and but basically we came to a similar sort of conclusion uh we said there might be a leviathan Spirit we didn't think we could definitively say it from scripture wasn't that our Josh am I missing anything so actually the Leviathan I think that we both agreed that Leviathan Spirit might actually be Satan himself um uh we yeah the Isaiah 27 reference mother content yeah the Isaiah 27 and it might be Isaiah 26. Isaiah 26 or 7 the first 22 verses there yeah mentions the Leviathan spirit and uh and it seemed seems like that that's actually talking about the Devil Himself because of the way Revelation 12 alludes to that passage but uh but whether there's a leviathan spirit that uh it fits the description in many charismatic teachings we kind of had some doubt about that Isaiah here's here's what you said about the Leviathan spirit that um so Leviathan is a spirit it's a marine Spirit it wants to shipwreck your faith your marriage your ministry your prayer life it twists the truth uh because Leviathan means Twisted serpent so it was Isaiah 27 1. uh Leviathan is a covenant breaker he'll uh and it twists your words and serpent means to whisper a magic spell and so we we reviewed the video and we we felt like we couldn't really come to those conclusions exegetically because if we wanted to jump into Isaiah's mind as he's prophesying this and ask ourselves the question is Isaiah trying to teach us about a demon named Leviathan or the references in job is job trying to teach us about a demon named Leviathan that is a covenant breaker Etc we thought you know we don't think that that was in in job's mind we don't think that was in Isaiah's mind we don't think that he was teaching us about a specific demon named Leviathan and so and so we kind of had some pushback on that uh Isaiah as you hear me talking what do you think how do you come to the conclusion that Leviathan is a marine Spirit or is there what does it even mean that it's a marine spirit is there anything that you would change after hearing some of these critiques yeah I would say something just to kind of set the stage that you guys would probably agree with is the Bible isn't exhaustive so we're not going to find every name of every Spirit as Miller said of every demon and we're not going to go make doctrines on every single demon just to give an example I have 700 videos right now on my channel and I have two videos out of 700 that are on literal names of demons and both of them are found in the Bible now it wouldn't be I would say wrong to go make a video on 10 spirits of like say lying or lost or these are how these Spirits function it would be extra biblical which tons of stuff we do in the church is extra biblical our order of service is extra biblical the Bible doesn't say you need to have your worship then you need to have your offering then the pastor gets up and preaches then you have the altar call but it's not wrong to do that just because it's not explicitly in scripture or let me just say this there's no named Pastor in scripture and is a pastor wrong no Ephesians 4 tells us there is an office of the pastor some say Elder some say pastor but it's not found explicitly in scripture the word rapture I believe in the Rapture I'm sure you guys do it's not found explicitly but it's a Biblical reality um the word Trinity I'm trinitarian although the word Trinity is not scripture it describes a Biblical reality so I think I I'm I may differ with you guys in this I don't believe something has to be explicitly Leviathan is a spirit to be able to draw from jobra Isaiah and say how do you describe an animal being the king of all the children of Pride right which you guys said you think it could be the Devil he's talking about I think there's a real Spirit of Leviathan not only because I think that's a scripture alludes to not that says explicitly but also because I've experienced it over and over for example I've had a lady who never knew anything about Leviathan doesn't know anything about Jezebel and I'm praying for her and all of a sudden she starts speaking out my name is leviathan in a man's voice does she know and I asked her after do you know Leviathan what's Leviathan that was her question after Deliverance what is leviathan so for me I look at that and go okay she doesn't know what Leviathan is she's never studied job she's never studied Isaiah she's never seen any of these verses in Revelation about or Jezebel or Leviathan or whatever you say yet she's acknowledging or the spirit's acknowledging its existence now it's not explicitly Leviathan is a spirit but it's not anti-biblical to say hey there is biblical evidence that could go either way like you guys said we didn't say it wasn't a spirit but we just don't fully know I would take that and say along with experience along with dealing with the spirit over and over and over again me personally I could definitively say it's a spirit it barks like a spirit it talks like a spirit it's probably a dog not a duck right that's for me personally that's my favorite song for others and I totally said it wrong but it's okay I'm talking fast for others they might say it's not a spirit Isaiah but then they might deal with it over and over for a whole year and say okay I used to think it wasn't but after dealing with this for a whole year I think it is a spirit now as far as Marine Spirits let me touch on this Marine Spirits are not a Biblical category uh you're not going to find the word marine spirits in the Bible Bible just like you're not going to find the word Ouija boards Spirit boxes or a thousand other New Age practices last night we did a video for an hour and a half with a friend who's an ex new age or he's now a Believer he's on fire for God and we did an hour and a half video on New Age practices you know you need to stay away from things like yoga things like uh manifestation things like meditation on ungodly things all these practices that we've talked about uh LSD and shrooms and all these things that young people are opening themselves up to and we did an hour and a half video on New Age practices and guess what not one of those practices is found in the Bible there's no yoga in the Bible there's no Ouija boards in the Bible there's no Spirit boxes but it doesn't take them out of existence so for me I would say now let me let me preface it by saying this you don't need any of these training videos to cast out demons let me just say that you don't need the books you don't need the teachings none of them are going to make it to where you can cast out demons all you need is the authority crisis already given you I cast out demons three days after being saved and I don't even know anything about the Bible or the name of the 12 disciples I couldn't even name five of them so it's not like you have to watch Isaiah's teaching on Leviathan you've got to watch this teaching on Jezebel you will never be able to deal with her that all you need is is the authority Christ has given you to cast out Devils right be proficient in scripture understand the Bible but is it and is it bad to do it is it bad to teach things that are extra biblical that are incongruent or harmonious I don't think anything I said was out of line with what the Bible teaches I don't think it contradicted scripture I think I drew from not only my own experiences but what I see the Bible saying like he's the king of the children of pride in my mind I'm going okay how could an animal be the king of the children of Pride and then and then going on and on again I won't go through the whole video because there's an hour but looking at those different things I think that it's clear I believe that just because something's not in the Bible doesn't make it less valid we know John at the end of his uh gospel said hey if everything was in the Bible it would fill up the entire world so there's tons of stuff that Jesus did that is not in scripture um and there's tons of stuff we do in the church that's not in scripture but but hey is it wrong I don't think youth pastors are wrong I don't see them in scripture but I don't think they're wrong I don't think the word rapture is wrong even though I don't see the word in scripture it's describing a Biblical reality but I would say everybody has their own idea their own interpretation based on how they interpret the Bible how they know how they um what their life experiences have been and so for me I would say I don't just believe in in theory but also in practice and that's why I would say yeah Leviathan is a spirit I wouldn't recant and backpedal and say no it's not a spirit it's just you know the devil or a I mean the Bible calls it your spirit right right he says that he calls it an evil spirit right so we're not uh I mean I don't think in job it explicitly says that he's a spirit but we do I think see in Isaiah 27 there's some kind of spirit there let me let me ask you a question though um because I this is an important point of clarification because people heard you say okay it's not in the Bible there's a lot of true things that aren't in the Bible okay but we don't necessarily so like a Roman Catholic guy might say hey Purgatory is not in the Bible right but it doesn't mean it's not true or Penance isn't in the Bible but it doesn't mean it's not true yeah but I would say Purgatory is anti-biblical because the Bible teaches a heaven and a hell after death it's a great for man to die once then comes judgment so to teach there's a waiting room for the righteous that you can pay to get out of is an anti-biblical principle saying that Leviathan is a spirit because I've dealt with it or because it's you know there's biblical evidence to support it either way whether it is or not um just like for example if I said jealousy is a spirit I've dealt with the spirit of jealousy I believe definitively jealousy is a spirit I don't have a teaching on it I don't have a verse for it but I've dealt with the spirit of jealousy so again like like these things I would say they're not anti-biblical they don't go against scripture they're non-essential doctrines and you don't need them you don't have to have them but yeah let me clarify so like if I was to sit down next to Michael and say Michael teach me to preach you know there's no Bible verse that says this is how you preach but Michael would say well Josh you need a big idea and then in your big idea you need three points and in each point you need to have an explanation and illustrate in an application easy peasy is how you preach okay and that that that is called um a pedagogy okay and that pedagogy is nowhere seen explicitly in scripture but we've learned this is how people learn right so we're teaching one another on how to preach the gospel outside of an explicitly biblical text okay now so so I grant it I'm just asking where's that line because again okay so purgatory and and Penance is a good example what about I've told you this on the phone there's a there's a guy out there there's a group of individuals out there who want to integrate the Demonic force uh into the person's life like it's a split personality and they they want the demon to get saved and confess at Jesus is Lord and and walk through a a process of repentance with the demon and integrate I've never heard this this is that right they want to integrate the demon into the person's psyche uh and redeem the demon right so but they learned this from the demon right and nowhere in the scriptures do we see the integration of demons and personalities are inherently wrong right so so again obviously you don't believe that obviously right again when I was talking about areas of agreement I think you and I probably agree on how people get demonized someone is asking me online you know can someone get demonized from Pokemon can someone even I just said look guys you can get demonized from worshiping a chair there's nothing demonic about the chair but if you if you posture your heart in a way that is sinful sin is how demons get in right so so if you posture your heart in such a way that this is an inappropriate relationship you know like like you said sorcery yeah certainly yoga is not in the Bible but sorcery is right uh syncretism is and you start practicing those things you're gonna you're gonna get demonized um so we agree on on get how to get demonized whether Christians can get demonized we agree on that how we cast out demons ultimately faith and repentance right we have person repent we have authority over the demon we cast The Demon out so we agree on a lot of that stuff but that line of of nuance between what is extra so where's the line at yeah yeah yeah where's I would say the line is when it gets anti-biblical so like saving a demon in the demons are not going to be saved they're destined for the Lake of Fire in the end of revelation we know that they're going to be thrown in with the devil all these Spirits are going to be so to say a demon could get saved is an anti-biblical principle so when it gets anti-biblical and it goes against and it's not no longer harmonious with scripture and it goes against the harmony of what the Bible teaches I think that's where you get an error um like if you look at scripture for example there's a lot of different Spirits there's evil spirits lying Spirits deaf and dumb Spirits seducing Spirit spirits of infirmity spirits of the Antichrist spirits of death spirits of fear I know all the people in the chat that don't believe this are squirming because they didn't realize these are in the Bible their spirits of the children of work of Disobedience so is it a stretch to say okay there's a whole bunch of spirits spirit of fear God has not given you a spirit of fear why is it why is he calling it a spirit yet so it's not like it's not um unharmonious to say that Leviathan or Jezebel or like molec right or all these things are spirits if you've see that okay in the the Bible there's tons of spirits not everything's mentioned in the bible it's not exhaustive we know you can sit down and read the whole new testament in one sitting I've done that several times where I've read the entire New Testament in eight hours and again it's not an exhaustive list of everything like to teach preaching to do worship Theory there's no worship music teaching in the New Testament yet we teach at our Bible colleges how to do worship how to write worship music so these are things I think the line is when you get into Crossing this is anti-biblical it goes against what scripture teaches the Orthodox doctrines of the resurrection of the Divinity of Christ and all these other things I think it's dangerous again though I want to say they're not necessary teachings and we talked about them yeah we talked about this that look some most pastors if there's say three pastors on staff and you preach once a month or once every twice a month let's say an average Pastor might preach or let's say three times a month you have to three times a month get a sermon that's 45 minutes long on average in America three times a month just think about that okay for you guys for me we're live streaming sometimes every day so I'm producing content every single day so of course we're going to have extra time to talk about topics that a pastor doesn't have time to cover he just doesn't have the bandwidth to be able to describe a lot of the stuff we do if you have 700 videos on your channel it's you're gonna have a lot of time to say okay this is more in depth on this or this is training for this is it necessary of course it's not of course you don't have to know this and I've never claimed that none of us claim everything's a demon no one in my campus ever claimed Christians could be demon possessed all the claims that these these people make against us are all invalid claims not that you guys have made but a lot of these criticisms we get they're not valid you'll never hear me say a Christian could be possessed by a demon you're never going to hear me say oh you know this is that or everything's a demon everything you do is a demonic Spirit or demonic opening we don't say that I think that those that are against the ministry of Deliverance which is a lot of people they want to create their own narrative to try to slander the ministry of Deliverance but for me I would say this is Jesus's Ministry he started it it's not you can't separate the ministry of Christ and the ministry of Deliverance they are intertwined together it's a Ministry he started it's part of the atonement and um I think it's necessary that every believer is engaging and doing these things now again people could disagree with me but I think it's important as far as like does it matter to know these things like let me just say this how would knowledge help in casting a demon out I know you guys have said that before in your videos that would be a question you want to ask me to me it helps in identifying the spirit functioning in someone's life I mean you look at a doctor they have they have a thousand types of cancer and imagine asking the doctor why would knowing about all these types of cancer or specific cancer help like just treat it don't worry about if it's breast cancer if it's eye cancer if it's brain cancer but each type of cancer does something different and so to be able to know what's functioning or maybe whether you even need Deliverance it's good to know these things about say these Spirits or about the way the devil functions if you look at like for example Second Corinthians 2 11 so that Satan will not have an advantage we must be familiar or we are familiar with his evil schemes so Paul says look if you're unaware of the schemes of the devil which we know demons fulfill the devil's schemes then you're going to automatically be at a disadvantageous position so yeah I would say it is beneficial not necessary these are not essential doctrines that you have to have you don't have to watch the videos but they will help you if you want to know more if you want to learn more and if if you want to be more proficient in spiritual warfare I think it does help to know these things because if you're dealing with these Spirits you say oh okay this is there I know because this and I know because this and so you can deal with them more properly if you're if you're in Deliverance Ministry again though I want to make the statement not necessary not required they're extra biblical they're non-essential but I still think they are important in training and equipping just like taking a class on preaching could be important I'm not going to make a video saying Hey it's not in the Bible there's nowhere in the Bible that tells you to teach people how to preach and how to use a three-point and use illustrations and you know everything on the planet uses that yeah yeah exactly so I'm not going to sit there and say that I'm not going to make a video of that I'm just saying hey if that's what you do cool it's not anti-biblical but it is extra biblical because we're not again just like worship we're not taught how to do worship music we're not told to do three fast songs two slow songs but I don't think there's anything wrong with it um as long as you're not anti-biblical yeah I think that's a it is definitely a helpful line that like in the very least you're not going to teach anything that is anti-biblical I would maybe put out there just another line and it's something that I mentioned earlier and that is the sufficiency of scripture and you actually touched on that even though you didn't use that language because you said hey it's not necessary that you have these things because you have authority in Jesus name you can cast The Demon out whether you know its name is leviathan whether you know its name is Wizard of Oz or Susie Q it doesn't matter you have a you have authority in Jesus name but these little tactics can be helpful just like you know knowing how to do a look introduction and conclusion and uh put together a big idea in preaching can be helpful but but what you did with that language Isaiah is you took it outside of the realm of like of necessity and you put it into the realm of can be helpful and safe in doing so you safeguarded the doctrine of sufficiency of scripture which again is the scripture gives us everything we need for life life and godliness and so uh and so I think you safeguarded it in that language but but I think maybe just a slight pushback I would maybe I would have Isaiah would be that when we when I watched your videos it sounded like and even listening to you just now that you taught these things definitively uh that you taught what I would put in the category of speculation or or maybe even a little stronger than a strong hunch um but you put it into the realm of this is truth and and I think you know for me when I'm teaching I try to differentiate verbally like okay hey this is Michael's opinion on this and and I think I have good reasons for this opinion versus This is Gospel truth take it to the bank and and Isaiah I think the reason Josh and I tend to be sensitive to that is because uh is because we've we've done videos on this I mean I I take the how many books have been published but take the issue of Courts of Heaven okay uh and the courts of Heaven I actually saw some people talking about it in the chat well I had a lady uh in my last church he would come up and she'd tell me these experiences of all these demons that were cast out because of the Courts of heaven and she'd have this teaching about how you got to go to court like number 492 and you've got to serve these kinds of papers and you've got to do all this crazy crap I mean I'm sorry that's just what it was to cast out a demon and I thought oh this is heartbreaking because if you got to do all that to cast out a demon no one's ever gonna cast out demons because you have to have this crazy specialized knowledge that's not in the Bible I mean you you apparently know more than Jesus and the Apostle Paul I mean you're just this incredible Exorcist and I just think you see that's where we endanger sufficiency of scripture because we put more Hoops for people to jump through in order to be able to cast out demons now what I hear you saying is Well you actually don't need it can be helpful but you actually don't need it so I'm glad to hear that but it it seems to me that when you when you ardently and passionately Teach as truth there is a leviathan spirit because I've experienced it and there is of this kind of spirit because I've experienced it I feel like we we kind of transgress that line a little bit by making it seem as though we can take to the bank this spiritual reality that's that's not explicit in the Bible so I think my preference would be just sort of a like one thing I do when I cast out demons I I actually and this is just a this is a michaelism I look people in the eyes I ask them to open your eyes and look at me and I want to I'm going to address the spirit and I've learned from experience to do this because whenever I'm casting out demons the spirit makes the person want to look away and distract sometimes they'll tell like a raunchy joke or something it's like they want to just do anything to distract from what's happening in that moment and so I'll just say just I I say just look me in the eyes so I've taught people in Deliverance I've said Hey in fact I did this last week in a in a training I said hey here's something that I do and I have found it helpful but I clarify this is a michaelism this is not a bibleism you don't have to do this but if you find it helpful you can do it and so I try to differentiate that in my teaching versus what I teach like Matthew 4 23 here's the gospel of the Kingdom the gospel of God's Reign and it and it's there's preaching and then there's demonstration through healing and casting out demons I can go to chapter and verse for that and and teach it definitively that this is the expression of manifestation the gospel of Kingdom because that's that's hardcore scripture explicit tie so so that's that would be maybe a soft critique Isaiah yeah and I like you and I think you're doing amazing work for the kingdom but uh and Michael like you've you've seen demons like uh you've told me in a prior dialogue that there was a spirit that came to you like my name's Azazel right and we each have got dozens of stories of people saying you know Incubus or succubus is present which seems to be uh uh identified with some kind of sexual immorality um these these spirits and the little books hey this is my name and we'll go hmm okay that's nice and it's you still cast them out just the same nevertheless uh in in Isaiah I hope you hear us and to be fair if if someone if a demon says my name is such and such I'm going to address it by that and tell it to go in the name of Jesus for sure but yeah I only meant to say that like you you hear us saying that we realize that there are spirits in the world that are named that are not found in the pages of scripture like you hear us saying that we believe yeah yeah yeah so we absolutely believe that there are actually demonic spirits in the World At Large right now but we don't create um we don't create teachings around those things because we don't want to we don't want to um speak into an area authoritatively that's that's not padded by an experiential hey this is our experience yeah and I think when we're speaking as preachers or influencers or pastors we're not speaking with the authority of scripture like we're not definitively saying this is what this means and I don't know if you guys um Believe In Like A revelatory preaching I'm sure you do like if someone says don't be like Zacchaeus and spectate the move of God right or don't be like Peter and deny God at work like speaking revelatory like saying Leviathan wants to shipwreck your faith is like symbolic not literal so like if you look at for example on First Timothy 1 19 says cling to your faith in Christ and keep your conscience clear for some have deliberately deliberately violated their conscious as a result their faith has been Shipwrecked so like Paul is using the word shipwreck as an illustration for what happens when you deliberately violate your conscience he's not literally saying hey your faith is a literal ship and it's going to wreck so I think too when we teach and preach like revelatory or like we're using symbolism or examples it could also be misconstrued as you're saying this is exactly what the Bible says which for me my video of Jezebel or my video of Leviathan I didn't say there's a verse that says leviathan's a spirit or Jezebel's a spirit I'm saying from what I draw from scripture this is what I believe now again you don't have to believe that you don't have to agree with it I'm not authoritatively saying this is what the Bible says and we've we talked about that earlier because the Bible doesn't authoritatively say Leviathan is a spirit I think you said it might I don't know it's an exact verse that it would or Jezebel is a spirit I just look at the church of Revelation and say okay if I dealt with this Spirit of Jezebel a ton of times I look at her characteristics I look at this church that is tolerating Jezebel is it a spirit this girl had is the girl's literal name Jezebel I mean so I'm drawing okay I would conclude it's not authoritatively I don't have any type of authority to write Canon obviously none of us are riding Canon here or creating that type of Doctrine but I would say this is my conclusion and because I'm the one you know speaking it or sharing it this is what I think just like anything we would preach I mean I don't think any of us get up and preach for an hour and preach word for word literal texts of scripture and say this is definitively and even even so like for example you guys might say I could definitively say that the gifts are for today I've experienced them I see it in scripture you guys have friends and I have friends that would turn around and say I could definitively say the gifts of the Spirit are not for today because I have this first this verse and this verse and we can go on for three four five hours debating are the gifts for today and you're gonna walk away and you're going to teach your audience the gifts are for today because of what I see in scripture and they're going to teach Their audience the gifts are not for today because what I see so I think all of us to an extent are interpreting our own of how we interpret scripture and how we look at it but again these are not issues on salvation these are not issues on and they're not net they're not needed to be able to do what the Bible commands us to do the Bible is extremely vague on Deliverance the Bible says Jesus cast out demons synagogue synagogue Mark 139 Matthew 10 he commissions the 12 Luke 10 commissions the 72 Mark 16 all believers if you look at Acts chapter 8 you look at uh Philip the Evangelist casting out demons it doesn't say how doesn't say how long acts 16 we don't know how long it took Paul to cast that demon out of the slave girl it says within the hour at that hour I mean we don't know is it 20 minutes 10 minutes five minutes did he say this did he say that and so it leaves room for us to experience us to teach Jesus didn't teach them how to cast their demons when he sent them out he said go cast out demons so I think it is I think we do need to be careful as you said uh Michael Roundtree to not over complicate it I have had I went from having a 10 step hey these are the 10 easy steps to casting out demons to seven down to four so like hey this is the basic way to do it deal with your forgiveness let go of repent of your sin you know turn to God and we're going to bind those demons and send them to the pit I mean we try to keep it as simple as we possibly can all this other stuff we're talking about today are extra if you want to go deeper if you want to learn more just like if you go to boot camp you know you're going to go for months and learn about practices and this and that and we Are Soldiers I mean we are learning we do have armor we're in a battle so I don't ever see anything wrong with going and teaching these things and going spiritual warfare there's probably a difference in our in our orthopractic so everyone listening um there's two different terms okay there's Orthodoxy it's what we all believe in this orthopraxy and what we do okay so I think there's gonna just gonna be a nuanced difference between our orthopraxy um and our brother Isaiah here in that there's a bit of difference in the way that we practice those things like um you mentioned um revelatory preaching and you mentioned the difference between like a continuationist and a cessationist one of us is right on the continuation and sensationist thing right once someone is objectively correct on on that and and we are fallible in our interpretation certainly um with the the subject of revelatory preaching now this is a this is what the spirit showed me in the text we have a video that we've done on gnosticizing scripture um that I would just say that maybe maybe some viewers might want to go check that out I think that that that approach is actually done um I I I I don't know that it's been that helpful to the charismatic movement at large I do think that that you can um glean truth like you said okay you're you're watching Jesus from afar are there texts that explicitly say that yes there are I would use those texts to say those things um rather than um trying to spiritually like for example okay a woman with the issue of blood has the issue for 12 years and Jrs daughter is is you know 12 years old and Jesus gets off of the boat and he's walking uh to heal jairus's daughter the girl and then and then a woman with the issue of blood comes up and touches the Hem of His Garment and suddenly uh her flow of blood seizes up right and who touched me and you know this woman gets healed and he goes and heals Jairus his daughter someone come to that text and say C12 represents the number of government I think God was showing to me this is uh the young church and this is the old church and the young church is this woman who's not able to turn 13 she's not able to enter into her inheritance this older woman's not able to produce Offspring so this is symbolically the the old generation and the new generation they both need a touch from Jesus and this is a revivalistic sermon now that's quite revelatory but but it is also the exact opposite of what the text says and the text actually has a meaning and when we impose a spiritual interpretation on that text we're actually teaching people to read deeper into the text and what the text says itself so that's an orthopractor practical difference between the I wouldn't I wouldn't preach a sermon like that I would say Jesus healed the woman with the issue of blood he displays that he has the authority over life and over death by healing the woman who can't give birth right um and the woman who had actually died but he's displaying his authority over these things and this is part of that gospel message and I would just take the text as value and say what is the text saying itself and then extrapolate those points um so and I'll be very very clear this is also a very cultural difference right um different denominations different Church cultures are going to handle these things in different ways can I can I tell you though honestly that does an older generation need a touch from Jesus yes is that true 100 is does a young Church movement need a touch from Jesus yes absolutely it's 100 true but but again I would look to the points of scripture that speak to that rather than um spiritualizing a text that doesn't explicitly state that um anyway that that being said there's a there's a I think an orthopractical difference between the way that we're approaching this and the way that Isaiah is approaching this while agreeing on the essentials right we actually agree on the the demonology side we agree that there are spirits that aren't in scripture we agree that the way that we cast out demons is exactly the same we we agree that the Demonic activity Gets In by work of sin and realizing that hey it's okay to have that area of disagreement as brothers because as we are agreeing on those essential things and again I hope people who are listening don't hear combativeness but what they hear is is Brothers trying to process out what is truth and how do we wrestle through that and hopefully both Isaiah and we are equipping you with discernment on how to suss all of that out uh Michael and I know a lot of people in the chat are asking about um they've been asking I've been just barely checking it just because I don't want to be distracted by what the chat is saying sure is about Christians having demons I don't know if that's something you guys have touched on what is your guys's and I'm asking like genuinely I'm curious understanding on Christians having demons can they uh do you guys ascribe to like I I teach basically the Bible or the New Testament doesn't definitively say whether someone's oppressed or possessed it's it's like a English translation so I always say it's demonized is the king is the um original Greek which you know is a poor translation when you take demon eyes to possess with devils like I teach Christians can't be possessed but I also teach possession is a English word that was not found in the original Greek what is your guys's teaching on when someone says Hey can a Christian have a demon how do you um look at that from scripture yeah we do the exact same thing we just say that the best word is demonized which means to be influenced or oppressed by a demon and we we tend to say and we've done videos on this encourage you guys in the in the chat to go back and watch our videos just search demons and you'll find plenty of them under Remnant radio but um anyway so we teach to think of it like on a scale of one to ten maybe um just kind of a practical outworking of some of these texts we see people demonized all throughout the scripture uh but not every case is the same I mean you have uh the the gerosene demoniac who's you know scraping himself and he's living in the tombs and he's naked and violent okay that that's crazy dude that's that's a serious case of demonization uh call that a tin and then on the scale of one uh Ephesians 4 26 and 27 it says do not let the sun go down on your anger and do not give the devil a foothold well holding on to your anger which is unforgiveness for for a single day gives the devil a foothold in your life does that mean that a day of unforgiveness makes you the garrisoned demoniac and you're naked in the graveyard scraping yourself with Pottery I sure hope not right yeah so maybe we call a day a day old Grudge a one and maybe we call the other dude a 10 and it can it can be kind of anywhere in between and then I don't even feel a need to even distinguish between possessed or not possessed because that's not actually biblical language that comes from the old King James days so I just don't even worry about possessed now uh the question of can a Christian get a demon well can a Christian hold a grudge yeah and so yes a Christian can be demonized how demonized can a Christian be well then we enter into the realm of theory uh we don't really know but uh I mean it seems like a Christian could hold a really really bad Grudge a Christian can get really really bad into sin so probably a Christian can get really really demonized I would guess and of course I've seen that too but um demonization yes well yeah so the Apostle said well we don't have the word possessed in scripture but the Apostle Paul said hey a demon was sent you know from Satan to buff at me right in second Corinthians that would be the verb demonized right like that would be I mean the the text itself doesn't say demonized but any activity of a demon is demonization so Paul is saying there was demonic activity around in my life oppressing me in some way we're not saying that he was a level 10 meat puppet right like that's my favorite phrase to use when talking to people about this because they they think of demonization in terms of horror films when someone's a meat puppet walking around being controlled by a demon yeah uh helpful I think Texas Luke 13 uh the woman who's hunched over uh the scripture calls her a daughter of Abraham uh this is speaking you know we're children of Abraham if we identify uh with God by faith we we're deemed righteous by faith so this this was a daughter of Abraham which I think is a helpful uh distinction now this is different than the New Birth the Regeneration that happens post-cross um so I think that that's helpful for a distinction is there tons of scriptures that say Hey you can be demonized no but we do see activity where Paul warns us to like hey put on the armor of God the the the the Demonic arrows uh uh they're fiery and they can consume you that seems like some kind of demonic Affliction of some kind and again just use that same verb it's some form of demonization um again there's question on meat puppet you know level demonization uh but that's an entirely I think different different conversation yeah I've always told you if go ahead go ahead Isaiah well I was just gonna say is sorry you guys are so good we're behind a little bit here go ahead you go for real this time uh okay we're so we're so Christian brotherly aren't we just oh you go first you guys are both Sanctified we're sweet I was just gonna make make note of the fact that even though we we have had a few disagreements along the way this seems to be a point that we pretty much agree upon uh uh Christians can be demonized we agree on the ways that they can be demonized and we also seem to agree on the way you cast The Demon out uh get people you know you cast The Demon out you command it to go and wherever it's called for call the person to repentance to Confession of their sin to forgive somebody you know get them to walk these steps but basically it's commanding the demons to go and if the demon isn't going what what sin is the person holding on to that's given the demon right to be there and so we address that so sounds like you pretty much do the same thing we do with this guy when it comes to talking to Demons people say well why and if you look at Jesus the the man at the tombs Jesus commanded the demon to leave and the demon didn't leave that's what the text says the demon started talking and volunteering its name one thing we always teach or at least I practice and teach is that we don't immediately start talking to the demon we command it to go the only time we engage in conversation if the demon refuses to leave so you know give it a few minutes a minute to go do something if it doesn't leave like with Jesus and this is the Son of God y'all this is God In the Flesh um then we engage in the conversation it's always for the means of interrogating not conversating so we're not trying to have a hey what'd you do yesterday and are you in my other friends and family we're not conversating with demons we're not sitting there having lunch with them inviting them out to eat we're just hey this is the information I need why are you there why aren't you leaving maybe what your name is if it doesn't volunteer and then going from there but for me I think if we over rely on talking to the demon or getting information we under rely on the gifts of the holy spirit whether it be a word of knowledge whether it be you know a Discerning of spirit's gift like we have the Holy Ghost we have God in us he has way better information than the Demon's going to have and I tell people all the time did you pray did you ask God what that could be like I didn't even think of that I'm like man you're asking the demon but like why not go to God and so yeah I would totally agree on the Christians having demons let me just pose one question to those that are in the chat right now that are you know Christians can't have demons there's no way brother if a Christian can't have a demon just guys hear me here then there's no point in Deliverance Ministry because all we would have to do is get them saved just get them saved and then you never have to deal with Deliverance because they are the demons leave once they become a Christian this idea is an unscriptural idea the Bible never teaches that just get people saved and then we don't if you look at it acts 8 Philip preaches they heed his message they respond and he casts out demons so Philip why are you casting out demons um why don't you just preach and get them saved you're wasting your time there's no need for deliverance and then the other question that's number one the second question I would I guess have those that are maybe cessationists in the chat those that don't believe is where did all the demons go that is my question if you don't believe Deliverance is for today the gifts or whatever you know some Sensations believe in Deliverance but not the gifts there's a lot of flavors but those that say Deliverance is not for today I'm like where are they at because there's tons of demons when Jesus was around enough for him to do whatever where he went but now you're telling me we don't need it anymore because the demons are they on like a long vacation until the Book of Revelation in my mind I'm like hey demons are still here today Jesus dealt with them this way there's only one way to deal with demons and that's to cast them out there's no multiple ways one of the reasons why and I know the chat earlier was saying the courts of heaven Israel they are I don't teach the courts of Heaven I don't teach a lot of the stuff that charismatics teach when it comes to Deliverance because I can't find it in scripture now your experience is your experience but for me if I'm going to teach a method and say this is what the Bible says I have to make sure because of my audience that this is a scriptural method if Jesus didn't talk to the demon at the tombs I would say don't ever talk to a demon y'all I don't care what you say there's no scriptural backing because to me it's a big deal but because Jesus did engage in conversation um I think it's okay to if you need to another interesting point when it comes to which I know we can go hours on this talking to Demons is there's not one verse in the Bible where a demon lies which is crazy to think about because people say oh if you talk to the demon they're going to lie to you there's actually not one place in scripture where a demon lied to a disciple to God every time Jesus encountered demons they told the truth you're the Son of God what do you want from us have you heard it come to judge us before the time so I think um people might mystify deliverance and say oh the demons always lie every time I've found maybe you guys have found something different demons oftentimes do not want to be there they want to go they want to be cast out they're you know tortured by the fact the person's praying and fasting and worshiping and so oftentimes they'll tell you what you need to know and they want to get out of there so um yeah I think that we do have to be careful though getting into hey should we talk about this talk about that I always say it's for interrogation not conversation that's good that's good and this is that part of the show when Josh puts the camera on me no bro you had your hand on the mic I thought you're gonna unmute the mic yeah we've been almost two hours here man so here's the thing I think going for it today I think I think we're getting to a good spot where we can we can wrap up because uh you know our primary points of contention were on um you know prophecy and deliverance if there was any contention on that whatsoever it sounds like there's quite a bit of actual agreement on these things so I think this is a great place to wrap up um you know Isaiah this is what I would ask um I want to get some closing thoughts on you as far as how Christians in the charismatic space when someone is um uh critical because I think you've displayed a really good heart and charity here um how would you say like if people are watching this and and they are charismatic they practice the gifts they do this stuff and someone is saying Hey brother like I think that this could be done differently can you speak to like how how we should respond to criticism because I think you made a really good point earlier you talked about how man if people aren't doing the stuff you know you don't take Financial advice from a hobo right so you don't need tons of Deliverance advice from people who don't believe demons are a thing right but at the same time we do have Christian Brothers who the Bible says iron is going to sharpen iron and honestly I think this is extremely courageous we've never had someone that we've been that we've criticized before on the show come onto the show and give pushback and and talk through some of these things with us and I think it's been super fruitful and I think as a charismatic community at large we've got to be able to say we disagree and still maintain unity in the bond of peace I really want to know what would be your exhortation for people hey let's strive for truth but also strive for Unity how would you go about doing that and encourage people to do that yeah I would say for the most part correction is not rejection um even like just when I first got sent your video I'm like another guy in my mind I'm like another guy on YouTube that's mad that I cast out demons he's offended that I believe Christians gonna have demons because it does 99 of the videos right like I've never had a money scan know I've never had it been dishonest in my marriage I've never dealt with any type of Scandal ever like there's nothing you could find on me dirt wise because I'm an open book I'm living this thing out for real I'm not going to turn my stream off and then go drink like I'm I'm really about this life I really believe what I'm preaching today but I would say when people bring correction hear their correction if they're doing it with the right heart there's a guy um several guys on YouTube that say you know I'm not saved I'm not a brother you know one of them is because I believe in Genesis 6 which is an orthodox belief that the Fallen Angels breed bride with people and created Nephilim so he thinks because I believe that he says oh Isaiah's false he's going to hell he's not real would I go on that guy's show of course I'm not gonna yeah of course this is an orthodox belief a lot of people and Hebrew scholars believe that but I'm not going to go on a guy who's calling me out saying you're not saved you're of the devil you know you're going to hell and then say Oh by the way Isaiah come on my channel and then he wonders why it won't come on so I would say man if you're bringing correction with love which I think you guys have done I mean I I again skimmed through some of these videos the one in the prophetic word and for me you were like hey this is not um this is not wrong but it's not necessarily precise or like uh well what were we saying earlier like it's not um it's not it's hard to judge because it's vague it's vague so I was like okay look this guy's not coming at me sideways he's not over here calling me a false teacher false prophet I'll go on and talk with him he does Deliverance they're in Supernatural Ministry so yeah I mean I'm not going to go and throw my Pearls of swine and talk to guys that don't believe in anything I'm preaching or saying and don't believe that we should Castle demons I mean I may if they're if they're honest about it and if they're humble and if they're willing to be taught and for me if I'm going to hear somebody talk that has more experience than me in an area I'm going to listen and say man I want to learn like I'm trying to learn what you have to say I'm not coming arrogantly saying oh I know it all like hey teach me and I think today I I feel that way I'm listening you guys saying hey show me what do you think tell me I'm listening so I think being just taking being humble be humble in your approach be humble in your response be willing to to learn State submitted undercovering I will say this it's major to be under Spiritual Authority not because there's a million verses some people say well that's not in the Bible but because they're looking out for blind spots we all have blind spots I have spiritual fathers that call me and say hey be careful when you say this hey I I will guys I will be live and I'll have spiritual fathers text me and say hey I think you should go back and re-correct what you said there I think someone might have and I'm live reading their text while I'm live and then I'll say hey guys I didn't mean this I meant that if I said it wrong and so yeah I think we need to stay submitted under that be willing to take correction especially if we're in the Supernatural Ministry and a lot of people think we're just these you who charismatics that are crazy that don't know the Bible I'm here to say listen you can be normal you can be biblically accurate you don't have to be weird and still believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit the power of the Holy Spirit um Deliverance signs and wonders like we're really out here doing this thing for real what the Bible we're preaching we're praying for people we're feeding the poor we're doing what you guys are doing that don't agree with us um we're real people and if you're commenting and you're you know a Facebook troll or a couch Theologian or a YouTube Prophet on the comment sections a keyboard Warrior just remember you're commenting and we're real people reading your comments right some people are so quick to say oh you guys are this or Remnant radio is this or Isaiah is this and you know there could be people in here today saying things about you saying things about me like we're real people we're working it out we're trying we're talking we're dialoguing we're humbling ourselves uh I'm on here after they've critiqued me in several videos but I'm like hey I don't have any bad blood towards you guys I don't have any ill intent you guys are brothers and we're all going after the same thing and let's sharpen each other let's partner together let's collab there's 900 people watching right now let's let's train let's teach let's collab together let's merge audiences because I don't see any any negative from that so there's my long answer like I always give yeah no no no it's great I need prayer there's more kill ABS to going forward man like whether that's swapping Deliverance stories like Miller said you know maybe we get to go man I would I would have you come and preach I would have no no if I was a pastor of a local church I would have no hesitation just don't preach on the woman don't don't yeah just don't do that one that'd be a good cause good call bro good call uh yeah uh cool man well I guess for me a a closing thought would be I know I said this several times but the sufficiency of scripture it's a doctrine that so many Christians don't know but but it actually it speaks to both the charismatic and the cessationist in different ways to the charismatic it's if if what you've learned about Deliverance or what you've learned about prophecy or what you've learned about any of the gifts it is such that you have to have this knowledge in order to achieve the fullness of godliness and then and growth in your friendship with Jesus then you're missing the sufficiency of scripture the sufficiency of scripture means we have everything we need for life and godliness if I need to know what such and such teacher teaches me in order to passed out demons if I need to know uh read this person's book in order to access the courts of heaven and and unlock Mysteries and realities if I need to do all of these things you see what it does is it puts this teacher in a position where they actually know more than Paul did and the whole church throughout history they didn't have this truth you guys what we need is not new truth we need to just go back to the old truth the truth of the gospel and so charismatics need this because because we do believe it that God gives Revelation today where where we go too far as we turn our Revelation into a teaching for all people and we've got to separate that we teach from written Revelation which is the scripture outside Revelation such as prophetic Revelation is for encouragement and for building up but it's not for establishing new doctrines so so that's where charismatics need sufficiency of scripture but cessationists need sufficiency of scripture too because the reason we're all having this conversation here is that we believe believe that the scriptures are sufficient to teach us to use the spiritual gifts all of the spiritual gifts the very reason that we believe in Prophecy there is very reason that we pursue prophecy healing tongues interpretation and all the rest the reason we pursue them is because the all-sufficient scriptures command us to and nowhere in those scriptures those all-sufficient scriptures are we taught to be skeptical of those gifts that those gifts are somehow to go away one day and my challenge to the cessationist out there would be how can you possibly say that you believe in the sufficiency of scriptures when those very scriptures tell you to eagerly desire spiritual gifts especially the gift of Prophecy if you have to do gymnastics like nobody's business to make the Bible mean what the opposite of what it says then you're not believing in the sufficiency of scriptures so I would say charismatic cessationists let's come together and let's believe in the all-sufficient scriptures that give us everything we need for life and godliness so that's what I would leave you with no that's great and and guys if if you ever hear uh even pushback when we give to Isaiah it is not a personal attack or a personal push but we're coming into this space where in Isaiah affirms this as well right where we see on most of the charismatic Publishers most of the charismatic conferences with the prophetic voices that are out there not only didn't repent of getting the Trump prophecies wrong they doubled down on these things they're releasing all of these books about these new practices that are nowhere found in Scripture that are not just non-biblical they're extra biblical and we as careful continuation as we believe in the gifts but we keep things biblically rooted what we do is we see um we see the danger I believe personally and I can't speak for everybody I believe personally that the charismatic movement is primed for the greatest Revival in human history but I also think that they're primed for the greatest deception ever in human history and I think if charismatics as a whole leaders in this space don't begin calling for discernment and don't begin having critical conversations like the one we're having right right now where we can get together with people we disagree with and really wrestle through these things what's going to happen is we're going to grow an entire generation of charismatic followers who are just told what to believe who don't use their brain and they're going to be swept away by every wind of Doctrine we've got to love God with all of our heart with all of our mind with all of our soul and our strength not excluding that mind peace not not forgetting that that we're supposed to love God with all of our mind right we want to experience know that breath link depth height of the love of God those are all measurements we can we can weigh those things and we want to experience that love of God that surpasses knowledge the only way for us to do that is contend and believe to be obedient to the scriptures to fight for truth while maintaining a bond of Peace we've got to find a way to do this and guys I just again I can't commend Isaiah enough every time I listen uh and I've said this in all the videos we've been critical of every time I listen uh to you speak I have always heard uh Christ exalted a repentance of sin a faith towards God and of those things it stirs my heart like when you speak it stirs my heart to to excitement to intimacy with Jesus uh and again if you're not following Isaiah you need to go check out uh his channel uh it's just his name you'll see it in the description of this video I'll link his Channel at the bottom of this video you can go over to his channel subscribe get tons of great teachings there uh and Isaiah I did say we all believe this I only met in context with uh the prophets who didn't repent and a bunch of wacky charismatic teachings I don't want to put words in your mouth if you if you need uh to backpedal a little bit uh feel free to no no do that no it's all good it's all good man I'm excited to be on here with you guys and again um this is my first time ever coming on when someone's like hey we have this criticism but I think it's healthy I think it's good I'm an open book I got nothing to hide and so I'm excited to be on I know we'll do more next time we'll do some type of teaching on something something we agree on yeah I know there's a lot of yeah a lot of questions in the chat I love doing Q a we can do q a whatever um collab and thanks for not jumping me I didn't know if you guys were gonna say all right now we got him guys all right we locked him in no I'm excited man I appreciate you guys cool blessings guys thank you so much we don't do that yeah thank you so much for tuning in guys for this episode oh wait are you you got some thoughts really I just want to say because some of Isaiah's folks you're in our chat subscribe to our Channel we do theology uh podcasts every we do Theology and the gifts of the Holy Spirit and uh and for those who are into radio fans go subscribe to Isaiah's channel so Isaiah Saldivar so that's really great subscribers yeah guys uh if you're watching the video and you're like hey I was blessed by this episode or bless my other content we produce you know support the ministry there are links in the description for PayPal or patreon uh if there's any content you've ever heard me talk about patreon you're like man I can't afford that uh just shoot me an email media the remnantradio.com and I will go ahead and send that video to you for free because I understand what it's like to be so poor your baloney doesn't have a first name uh so for all of you uh who are watching make sure to subscribe like the video and share it to someone that you think it would be edifying to and if you're watching this video one of the videos I'm most proud of that we produced was The Healing Ministry of Charles Spurgeon many people don't know this guy had a wildly successful Healing Ministry we released that video just last week you need to go check that video it's super cool and I'm really proud of it so guys thank you so much for tuning in Isaiah thanks for for being a good support uh and guys we'll see you next week uh 4 P.M to 5 p.m Central Standard time we're talking about universalism uh condemning that with a fellow charismatic brother it's gonna be exciting blessings guys

Channel: The Remnant Radio

Views: 78,820

Keywords: The Remnant Radio, Theology Podcast, Remnant, Remnant Radio, Isaiah Saldivar, Isaiah Saldivar remnant radio, Isaiah Saldivar ministry, isaiah saldivar deliverance ministry, Isaiah Saldivar 2021, isaiah saldivar 2021 prophetic word, isaiah saldivar preaching 2021, Isaiah Saldivar Responds To Criticism, Isaiah Saldivar responds, isaiah saldivar, isaiah saldivar testimony, remnant, remnant radio, theology podcast, the remnant radio

Id: 8iu3Yf4GA8w

Length: 115min 42sec (6942 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 06 2022