Is Ukraine getting the weapons it needs to win the war against Russia? | DW News

Germany's Finance Minister Christian litner has made a surprise visit to Kiev to hold political talks his visit comes amid a debate over Ukraine's demands for Germany to supply Taurus cruise missiles litner said Germany had already provided more than one and a half billion euros in direct financial aid to Ukraine since the son of the war and pledge that Kiev could count on more financial support then there is leader of the free Democrats one of Germany's three Broad and Coalition partners and a reserve Air Force officer his budgets have massively increased Germany's military spending as he arrived in keep the Finance Minister said Ukraine was attacked by Russia because it chose the path of civil society and democracy I was lost in Kiev early in 2020 and held extensive talks with representatives of government opposition civil society and prisoners at that time I got to know a society a country that had decided to turn towards democracy towards a market economy towards the political West and its values I am convinced that Ukraine was attacked by Russia also because it had opted for the community of liberal democracies and against the authoritarianism of Putin it was attacked because it wants to overcome oligarch capitalism and establish a stronger market economy it was attacked because it opted for an open Society is is there for us tell us more about litner's mission in Keith so he is the first minister in months to arrive here if last year uh people were rushing and um basically uh passing from one to each other visiting here for the last few months it's been a little bit calmer however Linda is of course an important guest because Germany is the second biggest donor of Ukraine and um uh uh there's a lot of things that a finance minister from Germany has to discuss with its counterpart in Kiev that's uh his program that's his mission His official mission but of course people will be watching something else people will be watching whether he's conveying a message from the Chancellor from the government about the delivery of Taurus missiles cruise missiles that Ukraine has requested from Germany and that Germany has so far been reluctant to deliver stay with us for a moment Matthias I'd like to ask you about this next report you filed for us because as Ukraine continues to call for more advanced weapons this 21st century war is still being waged largely with 20th century equipment Ukrainian Crews still rely on Old Soviet era Vehicles while they wait for Western tanks to arrive Matthias took a look at how one Ukrainian tank crew is Kobe this is Ukraine's standard tank it's an old Soviet model the t-64 although they jokingly asked TV Crews from Germany if they have brought a more modern leopard tank with them this is what they have they're doing their job it's not as if we had a choice we're using what we've got soldiers begin basic maintenance as soon as a tank returns from a mission these are the luckier ones the platoon has lost half of its tanks since the war started you can see months of fighting engraved here in the body of this tank this one has taken a few scratches the important thing is that the armor is restored see here is a little hole all this was gone but they replaced it and we are ready to go again these Soviet era tanks are much lighter than their new Western counterparts that makes them more agile but leaves the crew less protected each of the Soviet design is an automatic loading system it means they can reload fast but it's a danger if the tank is hit the ammunition can explode in the cabin killing everyone inside that weakness has been a problem for the Russians who have similar times Western anti-tank weapons killed many crews by blowing up the cabbage and in-laws are a frightening thing of course you also need to hit the target and know how to use them but anyway the Russians don't have them that's why the ukrainians still value the t-60 it was developed in the 1960s in it is they say adequate to meet the Russians Ukraine's fleet was left over when the Soviet Empire collapsed and while a number of newer Western tanks like the leopard have arrived at Ukraine's front lines for many battalions the t-64 is still the standard battle tank [Applause] foreign but it has significant problems one of the biggest the engine overheats quickly and some are even a short trip can be too much [Music] no leopards inside their hope is to take tanks from the Russians War Trophies the ones they use are similar but a bit newer the successor model the g72 . I prefer the trophy tanks they are faster they're newer they don't break down as often we can just drive and do our job there were times when we could do three sorties in one day drive out hit the enemy come back recharge and drive out again there's a trophy here hidden in the bushes you can still see the letter Z symbol of the Russian aggression but this tank is now ready to fight for Ukraine Matthias would this war be over much quicker if Ukraine were better equipped well it would like likely be over much quicker if Ukraine was better equipped but it would also probably be much easier for Ukraine to throw back the Russians or to break through the lines if they had been given the tanks the Western tanks the leopard tanks a few months earlier it took quite a while for especially the German government but also the Americans to decide on this and that was time that the Russians used to build fortifications to lay out mines and these are exactly the problems that they're encountering now at these parts of the front where they have the leopards so it's not only the technology it's also the timing yeah there was so much political back and forth and all in public view what what about the delivery of tourists Crews missiles the latest in this Saga it's similar the British and the French started delivering cruise missiles that have a longer range and that's uh when the discussion in Germany uh took off when the Germans started discussing it then they tied I was never an official position but this is what we have heard from the German government from from people who who know the matter they have tied their decision to the American decision delivering atacums that's uh the American equivalent to the tourists that can strike up to 300 kilometers that means far behind the lines and in the last few days there have been rumors that Germany might be moving on this issue but we haven't heard anything the tourists would of course not only stock up uh uh um uh the possibilities of Ukraine uh in in numbers of missiles available besides the storm Shadows of Britain for example but it also has a few properties that make it more effective in certain contexts than the storm Shadows it is said to be much more effective if you for example strike at Bridges and bridges are one of the main targets just remember the cash bridge that connects Crimea with Russia it's one of the main targets of Ukraine in this longer range and tears what do the soldiers you met for example think about the extent of support from abroad where most soldiers I met unlike in the beginning of the war when I heard that people have been very unhappy about Germany's hazards that was before Germany started to deliver any bigger equipment at all people are grateful for the support that they are getting but um the it's very clear at the front lines that this equipment is never enough because Russia is in terms of sheer numbers of equipment one of the biggest armies in the world and they always have a lot more to throw against them in terms of ammunition in terms of tanks in terms of artillery and though Ukraine Prides itself to be a little bit more better in tactics losing less equipment that never matches that that's why there's a constant need for more especially ammunition much more even than tanks so where would you say Ukraine is at in its counter-offensive now so over the weekend we've seen a few advances by Ukraine now Russia has I've mentioned it before this very heavily fortified and mined main defense line and then two other defense lines behind and Ukraine would need to break through this main defense line and then probably through the other two as well hoping that it would create some kind of a moment where the front reorganizes and where they could push through for now they haven't they have reached this uh main defense line or they're close to it but they haven't broken through and whether this will be possible or not will defend a bill will depend on equipment on tactical success and that's the big question that uh people are watching now it's too early to say because it needs a lot of preparation in terms of hitting artillery positions Etc but this is uh what everybody is waiting for the analysis there on the wall in Ukraine from alkie correspondent Matthias thank you so let's look at the politics behind Supply in Ukraine with weapons Professor Phillips O'Brien is Professor of strategic studies at the school of international relations at St Andrews University in Scotland welcome to DW um even with Western supplied weapons is Ukraine being outgunned at the moment it's not it's it's question of being is Ukraine been given the right things that it needs to take back its territory it was given uh you know your your story just talked about access to Western armored by any Vehicles over the summer and Western artillery and mlrs systems but with specific range limitations it was if Ukraine was given weapons to make this head-on assault but making head-on assaults is really hard on this War I mean tanks as we've seen can be destroyed or disabled by a huge number of issues what Ukraine was not given until very recently starting with the British storm Shadows was the ability to hit the Russians at range to hit their Depots to hit their Logistics that was a big mistake because it means that Ukraine was forced to begin with with these heads-on assaults hopefully going forward the range issue will be made up and Ukraine will be given more of what it actually needs okay and part of that range issue is the use of cruise missiles and a German is currently debating the possibility of using of providing Ukraine with Taurus cruise missiles they have arranged almost double those provided by France and the UK part of that discussion is about limiting the weapons so they can't hit Targets in Russia so does this hint at German distrust of Ukraine it it I mean you can tell my understanding of the German government and I'm sure your viewers know as much as I do on that is that what they don't want to do is have a German weapon hit on Russian territory that that would be considered to be a a form of escalation the German government that wishes not to see the real problematic issue and by the way the one that you might say the American Administration has been wrestling with when it comes to the the well-known attacks for the for the high Mars Mrs system is do you want to give a lot of systems that Ukraine can use to hit in Crimea which is part of Ukraine legally part of Ukraine but which seems to have a certain talismatic uh idea for for Putin and the Russian regime so that seems to be guidance I mean right now Ukraine can hit inside of Russia with the missiles it's gotten from the UK and France it is actually on the border with Russia for a lot of places up around kharkiv Sumi it can launch into Russia if it wants us it chooses not to launch these Western systems into Ukraine so I'm not into Russia I don't think it's so much will they attack Russia the question is do you want to give Ukraine the systems it needs to attack Crimea so give us an idea then of lead times from requests through discussion refusal acceptance agreement and ultimately to deployment of these tanks or weapons well it depends very much on the system and one one thing that is shown out is that during peacetime there's an assumption of how long it takes to do something and when more comes about these things get truncated they get shortened very much so people were saying oh you can't give Ukraine Patriot anti-air missiles because it'll take a year to train the ukrainians just to use the system well you know War comes about and and you can drain these things in a few months because you really have an accelerated Pro um project of training to do that now for something like the ef-16 it will take six months or so to to get it really fully trained and up when it comes to a cruise missile though that can happen very very quickly that once the British government made the decision to hand over the storm Shadows for interesting they were in play Within I don't want to say days but more like weeks or months and and not more than one or two months to get them up and running so if the Germans say wanted to hand over the tourist missile now to to the ukrainians one assumes that could be up and running in uh you know in a few weeks or at most a month or two very interesting thanks for uh joining us Professor Phillips O'Brien from Saint Andrews University thank you

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Length: 16min 26sec (986 seconds)

Published: Mon Aug 14 2023