Is this one of my best debates? "You got me!"

so if i kick a dog and that dog cowers and makes a whelping noise you know what you got me in the corner man you got me in the corner good thank you yeah nah you got me in the corner good debate dude i fell off dude i used to debate for high school fella if you got me in the corner i just have to admit yeah like at this point i can't keep grinding my gears i'm we good guys nice to meet you um thank you so much my name is ed and today i'm at the university of arizona which is in tucson arizona of course and i have a banner that says give me your best argument for not being vegan you very kindly sat down which i appreciate so let me know what your response is to the banner in question so this is a very fun argument that my dad has been telling me to go vegan you know it's because he says you know meat takes more time to digest you know where it's not made for you this and that but at the end of the day honestly eating meat barbecues it brings me happiness man so and at the end of the day i think of it like if i'm not going out and hunting an animal i'm going to the i'm going to walmart now that meat's already there it's been you know it's it's whatever it's a whole industry meat industry and i go i buy meat because i love meat i love to barbecue so it brings me happiness and that's why i feel like as long as i am not physically i mean yeah it brings me happiness and i you know well there's two arguments there isn't the first is happiness the second is uh the meat's already there um why is the meat there the meat's there because it has been killed before and why have they been killed because there is a large portion of the population i guess that likes to eat meat you know yeah and so so what happens when we buy that meat when i buy that meat i am contributing to i basically you know when i pay for it that money goes to their industry and they use it however you know for assuming to make you know make more meat make more profits eventually absolutely it's supply and demand doesn't it you're familiar with supply and demand yeah exactly and that's all it is in action isn't it the animals are dead there obviously but when we pay for it we're demanding for our purchase that more be supplied so we're contributing to more animals suffering as a consequence of that um you said about happiness should our happiness come at the life expense of others exactly so yeah um so that's the thing right how do you know if the animal is happy or not you don't know really right so and and because it's now i mean it's kind of like we can't assume that every person out here right now around us is happy right you would say that we all have we all have like an equal opportunity to be happy um or we we should you know like you know we have the resources and this and that but at the end of the day every personal circumstance is different right which eventually may like leads to our happiness or not so i feel like so the question should our happiness come before the animal's happiness indeed like i i genuinely think like why not because like at the end of the day you have no guarantee you are not provide you're not actively showing me that this animal is happy oh no well they're not happy that's the problem isn't it and the question isn't whether or not our happiness should come before their happiness whether or not our happiness should contribute to a system that causes them suffering and kills them so shouldn't animals suffer and be killed for our happiness is the question okay one more i guess like a counter question would would not like would being a meat eating person be okay if they came up with the system that's entirely suffering like sufferingless entirely sufferless you know these animals let's say let's just assume these animals do not feel an ounce of pain so like in that case as being vegan okay oh sorry being like meat eating is that in that case is that being a meat eater okay in that case um well firstly obviously that doesn't exist so that's not what we're supporting but second even if it did no because animals still has to be killed for the products that we consume so even if you found a way to raise them and kill them that was devoid of suffering you're still killing them and as a consequence of killing them depriving them of living in a full you know a longer happier life so so no that wouldn't work but also it's important to recognize that that's not what we're supporting um but just to ask that question again should our happiness come should our happiness be viewed as more important than the suffering and life of an animal i don't think anybody's happiness should be you know more important than the suffering and life of an animal but at the end of the day it's the circle of life you you feel me what does that mean so the circle of what i mean by that is is in the wild right now just just an example you have the it do so there's actually this one instagram page the dark side of nature that i followed so dude these these are supposed to gnarliest of bro like there's like a zebra being eaten like a pregnant zebra bro being eaten alive by alliance bro gnarliest of no i don't have the heart to watch some of it bro to be honest but at the end of the day that's what nature really is man um i mean look nature is is not like yeah it's it's full of horrible examples of suffering and cruelty and harm but even though that's true does that mean that it's okay for us to cause suffering that we don't need to cause like is it just because suffering exists should we contribute to creating more suffering oh wait that's that's an interesting that's a great perspective so um so in terms of like suffering right so in this just just this case like you know should we kill more animals you know you just i feel like the i feel like that question is framed in a way where you you like you know you don't want to you don't want to support animal suffering you don't want to see these cute animals being suffered and but at the end of the day bro lamb is just tasty as like i love mutton yeah and um but i mean like i feel like i'm not able to you know huh well the thing is you say that we don't want to to support animal suffering but but you are you're paying for it it only the situations are describing only exist because people like yourself pay for it but now let's say let's say like the main mainly the meats that are consumed in america is beef pork and chicken let's say right beef pork chicken so beef pork chicken these are three animals that let's say we just stop consuming them first of all i feel like that would have negative repercussions for the environment because these guys would just be running amok um but i feel like at the end of the day should we create more suffering for these animals like no that's wrong right but at the end of the day being a vegan trees that's like you know like that's a life that's a life now just because it may or may not feel pain or whatever you're still taking a life now now the question now remains like at the end of the day if a life is being taken now all the question that remains is the part of suffering right like is that animal suffering when i kill it or not well that's not the only that's not the only thing obviously cells in our body are alive but the act of taking an antibiotic to kill bad bacteria in our body is obviously very different to the act of killing an animal um and it's the same with plants you know plants are alive but they have they're not they're not sentient at least at least not in the way that we perceive them to be closely aligned with the animals who we do consume so whilst we are taking life we're still taking life that has the capacity to suffer less and also the experience of life they have is is very different so whilst we could go up to a cow and shoot them in the head and they wouldn't suffer that cow is still having a subjective experience of life that we're depriving them of you know let's say a dog who walks past it wouldn't be moral to kill a dog even if we do so in a way that doesn't cause them suffering it's still immoral to kill um when we don't need to obviously so it's about choosing things that reduce harm reduce suffering and choosing to take life that experiences life in a diminished capacity compared to other life that we currently choose to take um and then to kind of go back to a couple of things that you had said kind of um just before that now the thing to remember or to consider at least is that the only reason we have all these animals is because we breed them into existence so the logic that we're using right now or that you've applied is that we need to keep killing these animals because if we stop killing these animals we'll have to kill these animals but the the alternative is to simply stop breeding them into existence and so the more that we breed into existence the bigger the problem is but if we stop breeding into existence this issue of overpopulation won't happen because we simply won't bring these animals into existence in the first place so one thing i i kind of like caught on was because you said that we're depriving if i go up to a cow shoot in the head zero suffering but i'm still depriving of the life it could you know potentially still experience but then how is that kind of different from doing that to a plant now i'm taking taking it's you know or or like any vegan organ is like not vegan organ that's kind of weird term but um you know what i mean that's not not meat um so like you are depriving i mean we still know it has cells you know it's it's um it has cells in this body keeping it alive it's taking in oxygen giving out carbon dioxide making food it's it's it's got the whole you know nine yards happening so am i not depriving that of a life as well i mean see all i'm saying is at the end of the day we have to kill to eat yes we're killing either plants or we're killing either animals right so i feel like as long as it's not causing a significant problem like you know like it's like meat eating you know as long as it's not causing a significant problem like there are some places who like you know these are poaching sharks and who are already endangered guys come on don't do that you know yeah come on you know there's lamb beef beautiful you can grill and all that bro tender meat you know juicy i'm you you get where i'm i'm kind of like as long as it's not really you know it's as long as it's not really hurting someone like like actually that's ironic but it's suffering yeah it's ironic it's suffering but that's the thing at the end of the day even a vegan person's having to kill sure you know but it's just about what you're killing sure absolutely it is but what we're killing is is very important because um plants okay the first thing to consider is this even if we think that plants animals are morally comparable animals consume plants right so animals by the virtue of having to consume eat more plants than we do because you think about how much a cow eats over their lifespan so actually by being vegan we reduce the number of plants that have been killed as well so even if we think that plants should be morally relevant by being by being vegan we're still contributing to less plants being killed and consumed overall because we're eliminating the 85 billion land animals or so who also are consuming plants at the same time so in and of itself you've also made an argument to be vegan because that reduces the amount of plants being harmed but then why are you kind of like against the circle not against but like why are you just kind of like you know why interfere with that circle of life because i mean god made you know apart from humans god had god has a very nice system you know like animals eat you know like that nice yeah i think it's a beautiful system if i was a god i would have created the system why because it's a system of violence and harm so you just were like what what what would you take out of this system i guess unnecessary suffering and heart if i was a god and i could have created the world in any way that i saw fit i'd have created the world where suffering and harm did not exist how do you know love in how do you know love without suffering if there is no definition of pain if there is no definition of suffering there's no definition of bad there's no definition of good you have to have the other side of the coin i mean i disagree but obviously we're talking uh i mean we're going off but the circle of life you're describing the circle of life purely means this everyone who's born is going to die that's all it means but it doesn't mean that we have the right to take life prematurely you're going to die one day on that's the fact of life but someone's not justified to come up and kill you just because that's true you know and so obviously everyone's going to die but that doesn't mean that we have the right just to take life arbitrarily and unnecessarily if we cannot take life even though that life will one day die it's still not right for us to take life when we don't need to but i just don't kind of i'm just kind of like failing to see the double standard between plants and animals now okay so let's say you have two choices one is to cut the throat of a pig and one is to cut the stock of a broccoli okay is there a moral difference between those two things i am killing a living thing so is there a moral difference between those two things no no so what about killing a human and cutting the stalk of a broccoli no that's two very different things killing now the reason is because i will not devour the human after that that means i am killing simply for the act of killing which is very wrong that means i'm murder at that point but here i am killing to consume its nutri like to cook to provide you know nutrition to other people who will eat with me but you could cannibalize i'm not a cannibal you could be and if you were would that make it okay so now we're so now it's going into ifs and but cannibalism isn't is illegal so i think like we should just entirely take that topic off the table does legality equal morality i feel like we live in a world where we have to mold our morality according to legality but does legality equal morality is something moral because it's legal or immoral because it's illegal i feel your morals are the way you define it right okay so what what do you think about the question i'm asking so yeah so like cutting so kill this stock of like killing someone and then a stock of a broccoli but that's what i'm saying there's two very different incentives to do so but if you were to cannibalize the incentive will be the same let's say the incentive is the same i'm a cannibal and i'm killing it so is it now moral to kill a human because we're going to eat them so now this is this is considering a world where everybody around me is also cannibals it's just it's just applying the logic now that's the different thing now i'm an outcast because not everybody around me is a cannibal but that doesn't mean that it's marla immoral you can be an outcast doing a moral thing it's not a question about it's i don't feel like it's a question about see interesting so now this is two very different scenarios though you know it's like you got a meat-eating guy versus broccoli and a whole human versus broccoli but in the human versus broccoli case i'm kind of like an outcast you know we're not living in the world of cannibals and so are you guys for me no for let's say like i said morality is defined by a person so i would say that for me morally killing even if i'm a cannibal killing a like let's say i'm a cannibal right and then killing a person a sentient human being who can who can vocally express like vocally in my language not through actions or sounds and can straight up tell me that i don't want you to kill me i want to live another day you're taking that man's you know will to live away now the cow thing if we go back backtrack what if they don't speak english though what if they speak chinese and you don't understand it it's just sounds and language it's just sounds and noises again oh very interesting huh i mean so if let's i mean i would say you know i'd get a translator but let's just say they can't talk or not and i get where you're coming from i don't know dude that's that's a very interesting perspective but that's the thing i just feel like we're comparing apples and oranges you know not really because the logic you use is that killing um you know killing a pig and kind of piece of a broccoli stalk is morally the same because it's about nutrition and so you're saying well it's the same to kill a pig as is to cut the broccoli because you're going to eat them but then if i kill a human to consume them it should that's all right then morally it must be the same and comparable because it's taking life but it's okay because i'm taking life to consume nutrients so that means we're also drawing a parallel between like a like beef lamb and stuff and a human you're the one who's drawing those comparisons by saying that it's morally justified to kill anyone if they're alive simply because you can get nutrients from doing so as a consequence of killing i feel i've i said i feel i said we should an animal yeah if i kill an animal humans are animals humans are animals but there's a reason we've come to call ourselves humans now you know when we say animals we don't we don't con like when we say animals to eat we don't we don't consider humans it's understood humans are not in that why it's because you have to you realize you have to like take someone's life like unwillingly like animals cannot convey that they can they can make noises they can fight to try and survive how do you know that's just like you know like vocal so if i kick a dog and that dog cowers and makes a whelping noise you know what you got me in the corner man you got me in the corner good thank you yeah nah you got me in the corner good debate dude i fell off dude i used to debate for high school fellow if you got me in the corner i just have to admit yeah like at this point i can't keep grinding my gears i'm we good guys you got me but i love meat i love lamb i love to barbecue i'm like the type of guys to today's hat no today's a friday right saturday tomorrow i'm gonna go up to the pool yeah get a couple you know six pack aronas you know a nice lamb and we're going to be grilling that but but is that a moral thing to do by tomorrow six beers down morality is gonna be out the window for me i don't know man it won't be out of the window because you wouldn't rape someone would you some rounds just not on the window then like me personally killing an animal and eating it i feel it does not go it's not immoral but then morally justify it morally justified i personally while i contribute by paying to the killing of the animal as long as i don't have to kill an animal with my own hands i i'm chill but why are they being killed because i want to eat it so they're being killed for you oh yeah yeah i guess you are paying for it yep yeah so are you culpable i guess you could say for their murder yeah so then how do you barley justify it well i guess maybe i don't i just like to eat meat then maybe it's not morally justified maybe not so if someone enjoys something that makes it okay if someone who so now we're getting in a dangerous territory dog because if like there can be people who can enjoy a on the weird stuff exactly but then is it okay yes is it ah see that's like depends on the nature of the crime man i mean dude i've been watching like a lot of documentaries and these days on netflix and bro people are weird they like weird like some people are just killing animals unnecessarily i see what you did there but i beat yeah i guess you know might not be the best but animals are tasty man i'm sorry they're just some people think humans are tasty so that we go again right cannibalism that's that's what but you know what i would genuinely love to have this debate can i like do a little more research and because i just saw that i was i i got came out to get some like bananas and there's bananas yeah yeah banana i got some eggs too um but uh yeah dude i would honestly like i'm stumped right now i i where you're coming from you got the upper hand i'm stumped right now don't got nothing to say um so i mean yeah that's that's where i am right now so okay well what i'd love to do is give you some resources so you can look into it in your own time as well um but i think the important thing to recognize is just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it's okay right maybe you know what yeah that's true maybe like what if you're a bully and you know you're like the bully people that's not okay okay but they could say well hey you know what a circle of life nature is cruel other animals do bullying things to other animals and i like it yeah you know that's that's different that's the perspective of thinking about if you enjoy something is it okay yeah that's that gives me something to go home and think about i appreciate that and um you could see someone punching someone and they can go hey man don't don't punch that person they go um you're stood on grass right now and grass is alive too you know so there you go the logic that we use doesn't always uh make sense right yeah it gets gets nasty good stuff good that was an interesting talk man thank you i appreciate it thank you so much i would love to write down some resource have you got notes or something on your phone yes sir awesome awesome thank you so much dog i appreciate it so nice to meet you yeah and then you too likewise and it was it was a yeah it gave me something to think about when i got home and i'd like to hear that that's what life is all about absolutely taking a new perspective absolutely you know learning everything because you gotta be one percent better every day absolutely gotta be the different person that went to bed absolutely right so nice to meet you have a great life my friend thank you you

Channel: Earthling Ed

Views: 121,504

Keywords: earthlinged, earthling ed, vegan, veganism, fail, owned, destroyed, rekt, debate, response, social experiment, meat eater, vs, versus, heated, fiery, argument, college campus, change my mind, students, should i go vegan, reasons to go vegan, arguments against veganism, arguments for veganism, street, street interview, interview, speechless, must watch, funny, vegan owned, university, wins, reasons to not go vegan, farmer, farming, meat, dairy, eggs, cheese, best arguments, wrong, right, reaction, angry

Id: hi6Qns-b10c

Length: 21min 4sec (1264 seconds)

Published: Sat May 28 2022