Is The Steel Bubble About To Pop?

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Author Info for : u/apathyjoker

Karma : 727 Created - Jul-2017

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๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 1 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/MillennialBets ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 08 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies

Have you ever tried to open a new steel plant in the USA? It's on par with opening a refinery.

When was the last refinery opened in the US?

1977

All other refineries have just been expanded or renovated on the same land they were on because the red tape is made from titanium.

So, steel, like petroleum, is an industry kind of painted into a corner.

๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 8 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/Nid-Vits ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 08 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies

Big shoutout to cnbc for using LG saying demand is relentless boss move

๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 18 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/Gbear831 ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 08 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies

Politics aside, Trumps tariff on steel imports, and Bidenโ€™s continuation of the tariff, is a boon to NA steel and manufacturing. Time to start bringing jobs back home. China can go kick rocks!

๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 17 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/Wiener_Butt ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 08 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies

Steel stocks havenโ€™t moved up much in the last month or so. With protections, bills and prices it seems like there are good reasons for stocks to increase in price 50% or more but I think the big money institutions are content to manipulate prices so they keep earning on options in a narrow range. Frankly Iโ€™m tired of it and looking to make money on other stocks.

๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 3 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/onelastcourtesycall ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 08 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies

Wow, this is an excellent video. High quality stuff coming from CNBC in this case.

๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 6 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/Orzorn ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 08 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies

Well, steel prices in the US are incredibly stretched from a historical perspective and steel prices will absolutely moderate over the medium term as supply and demand begin to balance out.

But, the rapid increase in steel prices is not based on FOMO or speculation or excessive exuberance or any of the other characteristics of a bubble. There is simply a supply and demand imbalance and I expect that imbalance to start moderating in the beginning of 2022, but there will be no bubble popping although steel prices will decline albeit remaining at historically high levels.

๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 2 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/GreenLeafWest ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 08 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies

Wow, this was actually really good! I'm surprised.

It seems like there has been a lot of mainstream steel coverage these last few days.

๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 2 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/DevCarrot ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 08 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies

The tone of this video was so confident in significant price decreases.

States as fact steel is a bubble and will pop. As opposed to commodity super cycle, as opposed to a slow drawdown.

States that steel โ€œat one point priced over $1,900โ€. One point was last week practically.

Makes me think that the drop isโ€ฆalready priced in. It can work in our favor every once in a while.

๐Ÿ‘๏ธŽ︎ 2 ๐Ÿ‘ค๏ธŽ︎ u/dvsficationismadness ๐Ÿ“…๏ธŽ︎ Oct 09 2021 ๐Ÿ—ซ︎ replies
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Steel is essential it's in everything. Think appliances like dishwashers and dryers, and fridges and microwaves, or even air conditioners, not to mention planes, trains and automobiles, and every type of manufacturing from machinery needs steel to build windmills, solar panel systems, certainly to build out the electricity grid. When the pandemic threw supply chains into chaos, steel was no exception, prices dropped, then popped A boom in steel demand. Demand is relentless. I think people feel like steels price will go higher. I've been looking at this as probably the second biggest impact to steel makers ever. And I think that the largest impact is World War Two. Impending steel shortages become a major problem as America's war production streamlines into high. Steel prices spiked 300% over pre pandemic levels, at one point pricing over $1900. That's up from steel's pre pandemic price range between $500 and $800. They have turned into a bubble that and that bubble is they just go higher because they go higher, we should see prices move back probably in a pretty violent manner. Is that the bubble popping? Yes, yep. Steel is one of those categories, which prices have really risen dramatically. So certainly one of those examples of shortages, higher prices, growing frustration among customers. Plus steel remains a key material in infrastructure projects. So the Biden administration's plan to inject billions into US infrastructure will be a huge boon to the steel manufacturers. We estimate that for every 100 billion dollars of new investment in infrastructure, that's going to mean 5 million tons of additional steel demand. 2021 steel demand is expected to increase 3.8% over 2020, according to the World Steel Association. Can the US steel industry keep up with the demand and what happens when that bubble pops? Steel can be manufactured in two ways. First, there's the integrated method. In the simplest terms, you mine iron ore, you smelt the ore in a blast furnace with additional materials like coke, a form of process coal and limestone, and then you've made steel. But in the United States today, we actually make 70% of our steel using a different method, which is what we in the industry we call the electric arc furnace route. It's a way of melting down old steel scrap steel into brand new steel. Previously blue steel, old carb bodies, refrigerators, steel that was in old buildings, and that is shredded and melted down. Other alloys are added in like some new iron ore and then the furnaces tipped to pour out the molten steel. When it comes to clean steel, the US certainly is leading the way. But there is work yet to be done to make us steel production emit less carbon. Two of the US's biggest steel companies, Nucor and Steel Dynamics, both use electric arc furnaces or EAFs. If you think about the furnaces, the new cores and the steel dynamics, they have very competitive cost structures. They're very flexible in cost. They have a history of really good financial performance. And certainly their their stock has increased throughout all of this because higher prices have led to higher margins, which leads to higher earnings, but their stock hasn't moved as much as some of the other ones. The other ones, Cleveland Cliffs a purveyor of the integrated method, but they have some EAF mills too. And there's US Steel. The people that have moved the most though has been Cleveland Cliffs and US Steel. The market has been very challenging. It's been very competitive. And they've had to take on an increasing amount of debt leading up to the pandemic just to continue on. And then because of the structural change in the market, these mills earning excessive to historical norm margins, they've been able to pay down debt, pay off debt or buy back billions of dollars o shares. So the steel mills real y are a different company tod y than they were two years ag Steel prices are good, and they will continue to be strong. It's all about demand. We have limited supply, and people want things done right now. So that creates competition. That's the basis of capitalism will continue to work to reward our shareholders and to generate the cash that is necessary to reinvest in our business. The coronavirus pandemic definitely had an impact on the steel industry. Now steel producers were generally identified as essential industries so they weren't shut down by any government action. But many of our customers saw big drops in demand for instance, in the auto industry which buys maybe 25 26% of all the steel produced in the United States every year, largely shut down in the spring of 2020. And a lot of construction projects were slowed, everything. So demand for steel dropped precipitously between the middle of March and May, so much so that steel producers in the US responding to that market signal did reduce production dramatically. We had a number of steel mills that shut down altogether. Steel production went way down, and inventories depleted, and then demand started picking back up. So we've seen a huge, huge increase in demand. So much so that you know, steel production today is up 60% over where it was at the low point back in May of 2020. The economy began gaining steam in late 2020 as vaccines began to roll out. We have seen with this pandemic, locking things down and coming out of the lockdown was that there truly was a shortage, buyers could not get as much steel as they required just for normal operations outside of nobody was able to hoard steel, nobody was able to build any inventories because the mills were limited in terms of how much of each contract they could they can satisfy and they weren't selling much less than their their contractual volumes just because of this shortage. And then when demand came around you back distributors were caught short and then everyone started ordering steel at the same time. And it does take some time to make that steel. So our plants started coming back as quickly as they could. The US also imports a ton of steel. China is easily the world's leading manufacturer of steel. So we import a lot of them, we benefit from those low prices. But again, those tariffs have been in place, and that causes prices to rise. I'm not saying those tariffs are a good thing or a bad thing. I'm simply saying that they would tend to drive up price and they have done that. The US is the world's largest net importer of steel. Steel imports are up 17.5% year to date as of August 2021, the US imported more than 16 million metric tons of steel so far in 2021 as of July. But depending on which country these imports come from, there's a tax on the steel imports, aka tariffs. In 2018. President imposed across the board steel tariffs as a national security measure because they were, the concern was that the levels of imports coming in were undermining the viability of the industry over the long term. President Trump said the increase in imports posed a threat that could drive US producers out of business, leaving the country dependent on foreign suppliers. Then he exempt big trading partners Canada and Mexico from these tariffs. When the Trump administration first started to implement those tariff increases, there was a big squeeze on domestic steel. So all of a sudden, people said I don't want to pay those tariffs. I want us manufactured steel. And part of that was because it just there was this notion of this is by American, let's produce more here. But what happened of course, when foreign steel prices go up, the masses steel prices go up. Steel prices were rising significantly during much of the Trump administration. And of course, the pandemic. Customers buying steel felt the impact of both the high prices and tariffs. On the flip side, I will say the one good piece of news is because we had those steel tariffs in place in 2020. The COVID-19 crisis could have been another demand shock, very similar what happened in the late 1990s. Or in 2008, 2009, we could have seen a new surge in imports because when imports come in at very high levels, they tend to undercut domestic producers, they often sell at a loss in this market what's called dumping. Dumping is when other firms or countries come into another country's market and dump products at artificially low prices. We put tariffs on all the crap that they were dumping from China 25%, they were dumping the steel than we said you can't do that. So dumping makes it hard for us manufacturers to run mills at a profit. But because we had those tariffs in place, that didn't happen. And so the industry remained healthy, was able to recover, continue its investment and be in a strong position to meet the growing demand that we see today. You want to be running your steel mill as close to full as you can to really cover those fixed costs. Plus, you really want to be running at least 85% capacity utilization, which is where we are today. But back in those years before the steel tariffs were imposed, we were running only in the low 70% range. And that was really an unsustainable level for us. That was because of the high level of imports coming in in those years. Tariffs also created an environment that incentivize the US industry to invest in its facilities. We've spent close to $16 billion dollars, just since 2018. And investments in new facilities and upgrading existing facilities. We do have pretty substantial amount of new capacity that's coming online that was in planning to be built for the past few years. They're coming online in Texas and Kentucky and in Toledo, Ohio. As that comes online, we expect prices to move back towards a more historic norm. I think what really comes next is the mills are going to be earning incredible profits this year, most of next year. We have already made in revenue more than $9 billion this year, in six months infrastructure bill will be an icing on the cake. And I think what's next, it really is how are they going to be investing those profits? What are they doing with it? For a long time was to continue and invest in the down cycles to create higher highs and higher lows. So the mills that are coming up online now are benefiting from that. As for steel prices in the US, There's a supply deficit that's supported prices, and that supply deficit is easing going away. And as that happens, we should see prices move back probably in a pretty violent manner, at least in the start, maybe a 15 to 20% drop in a matter of a month. And as that happens, prices will then be on there trend line down back towards more historic levels. Is that the bubble popping? Yes, yep. We see we see prices peaking here. And that really, it should be in this half of this year. I don't know that I would say that we're in a bubble that's going to be burst. I think we're going to see continued strong demand. The good news is that steel supply capacity will rise over time a cure for high prices is high prices. So when steel prices are high, that creates an incentive for suppliers to increase output and eventually capacity. I think you're going to see that happen. And so we hopefully will see lower price at some point in the future, even as the world continues to use more steel.
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Channel: CNBC
Views: 595,722
Rating: undefined out of 5
Keywords: cnbc, news, financial news, business news, rubber, economy, us economy, usa, stocks, stock market, investing, investments, shortages, shipping, imports, trade, breaking news, steel, supply chain, steel industry, steel shortage, steel demand, Steel Bubble, steel prices, U.S. steel manufacturers, U.S. steel industry
Id: QGK6udAs3Wg
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 11min 27sec (687 seconds)
Published: Thu Oct 07 2021
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