Is 'The Chosen' Biblical? | Guest: Dallas Jenkins | Ep 726

The Chosen is a wildly popular show about the life of Jesus Christ it's received a lot of Praise as well as its fair share of criticism and here to discuss all of those things is the creator of the show Dallas Jenkins we will talk about his life his story what led him to create the Chosen and we will also talk about some of the pushback that the show has received including the controversy surrounding his comments about Mormonism and Jesus it's a great conversation I know that you're going to love it this episode is brought to you by our friends at goodranters go to goodranters.com use code Alia check out for a discount that's goodmatters.com code Ally [Music] thank you Dallas thanks so much for joining us I appreciate you having me this is great yeah so many people out there love the chosen a lot of people have questions for you about the chosen um let's first back up before even you started this series I know a lot of people probably know your story but if you could just give us a little summary of how you got into the Christian Media biz well I my father is Jerry Jenkins he wrote The Left Behind books and so those were huge you know they're still pretty big but back in the day about 25 years ago they were pretty huge and uh there was a movie being developed about uh based on the first Left Behind book when I was in college and uh I had been wanting to get into film in some way I mean I was I I remember seeing the movie One Flew of the Cuckoo's Nest when I was in high school yeah and that movie changed my life I was like whatever that is I want to do that what was it about it what was it about that movie well there was a scene I was watching it in my home it was on TV and there's a scene where Jack Nicholson's character is not allowed to watch TV yeah he wanted to watch the World Series game and nurse ratchet says you can't watch it so he goes and sits in front of a television and pretends he starts broadcasting a fake World Series game wow yeah and the other inmates start listening to him and getting excited and he starts yelling and talking about this the Home Run just hit and he's like like a broadcaster and they start cheering and I'm literally just sitting there there's like tears streaming down my face and I am so excited and I'm like I want to do that I want to yeah Inspire in people the kind of reaction that I'm having that's kind of emotional response to something and so that's when I was like I and what's funny is I think at the time I was wanting to be a sports broadcaster so that I think that had something to do with it too the scene so I wanted to make movies and uh so my thought was as a as a young guy growing up I I grew up I've grown up in the faith and as a Christian but I love TV and movies but there wasn't anything that represented my faith that I liked as much as the normal TV and movie that I would watch like yeah if there was a Christian movie that came out it wasn't any good uh so uh I didn't know what kind of movies I necessarily wanted to make but I knew I wanted to get into that in some way and I thought it'd be good to represent my stories in some way stories of faith and I remember there was a moment um in I think it was around 20 2007 or so I was mowing the lawn and I felt like God just like put it really strongly on my heart because I was kind of bad-mouthing Slash apologizing for faith-based films like I don't really want to do that because they're so bad and God was like my people deserve good stuff too you know so why don't you just make it better if and so we're just talking about how bad it is yeah exactly and so um or or instead of I think sometimes we get into this perspective of trying to be cool yeah you know like well I don't want to be like even when you use the term Christian Media I was like my instinct was like well I wouldn't call it Christian Media just do media and happens to have faith in it and sometimes I get you get defensive of that and I'm I'm trying to get rid of that and just go look I'm look I'm doing a show called The Chosen it's about Jesus by definition that's Christian so I'm I got more comfortable with it but long story short I just really I think uh it was about 15 years ago where I thought look I I have something I think unique to say uh that most filmmakers are looking for something unique to say and even studios are looking for filmmakers who have unique things to say and uh I thought if I'm just trying to be a normal filmmaker uh you know there's many people who can do that what is it that I what is unique about what I have to say or what I can bring to the table or what God may want me to share and so I embraced that I became okay with that with with with all right I want to tell stories that reflect God's God yeah and uh and that that's that's when I shifted probably again about 15 years ago to start starting really focusing on stories that were uniquely um about the relationship God wants to have with with Humanity it is interesting that a lot of Christians I mean myself included sometimes on the one hand you complain about secular media and the values that it's promoting and how it's promoting degeneracy and all of that but at the same time then you complain about the Christian Media or however you want to describe it that's it might be promoting the values that you like but it's not entertaining or you think it's lame or the acting is bad or something like that and so you kind of decided you know what I'm not going to sit in either Camp God has given me these talents I'm going to drive forward to make good in excellent content that also happens to be glorifying to the Lord yeah and and not be ashamed of that on any level and and I found that people that rejected stories of Faith we're rejecting more the the quality than they were necessarily the story there are plenty of people who aren't believers who will watch a movie or TV show that comes from a faith perspective or is about a faith story if it's compelling I mean I watched tons of stuff that comes from Faith backgrounds or non-faith backgrounds that I don't necessarily share but I still am interested in the story sure and that we found that with the chosen I mean there are tons of I mean heck over half of our cast and crew aren't Believers and they love the show they were attracted to be part of the show uh we we have tons of viewers who aren't who don't necessarily believe Jesus was the son of God but know the stories and love the historical context of it and love the show because they think it's a compelling show so um I just decided look trying to water it down trying to please multiple audiences like God took all that away from me a few years ago when I had a huge career failure so I've kind of let all that go and just decided to focus on just trying to tell the best story that I can yeah you've directed several films but the chosen is different the chosen um like you said is different in that it's not just appealing to faith-based audiences even though it is a faith-based show but its reach is really wide were you at all surprised by that when you saw the huge response that it got even from the beginning back in you know I think it was 2017 that it started right I mean was that a little surprising to you I have stopped being surprised or not surprised by success or failure you know it was in 2017 that my feature film came out that completely bombed at the box office and it had big expectations and I had big expectations and hopes and I was trying to be affirmed by Hollywood it was my big opportunity to have a movie that came out in multiple theaters and and uh and then when it bombed um I had this moment I was home alone with my wife crying and yeah shocked and just in just a couple hours I went from being a director with a very bright future to being a director with no future because all these big Hollywood Studios that had worked with me on this movie when it bombed they were like all right all our plans to do more movies with you those are no longer in effect you know again so when you say it bombed it just not enough people saw it in the first weekend it was you know below estimates below their lowest estimates yes okay and uh the movie had gotten it was a movie called the resurrection of gavinstone and uh it had it tested really well and the studios behind it were really positive and and these are some pretty big Hollywood companies and uh because it tested so well and they were so optimistic about it they really we're going to do multiple movies with you yeah in the future and they're feeling really good oh yeah and uh and then on Friday afternoon the numbers start coming in from the East Coast yeah and within a couple hours you it's a math equation you can tell how the movie's gonna do that weekend how it's going to do like election night or something exactly yeah and uh it just totally failed and um it must have been just such a difficult feeling to go through not only did you put all that effort in but you have voices in your head telling you I mean literal voices people saying this is going to be a huge success and will really be kind of the springboard for you I can't imagine the disappointment I was yeah I mean I was devastated and my wife and I were home alone it was a Friday afternoon and just so confused because the things that had happened to lead up to that point had felt so god-led like there were so many doors that had opened surprisingly and again getting some of these big companies that normally would never do a faith-based project but really were interested in it and excited about it and then totally bombs and you're thinking well this this doesn't make sense because God God's not the author of failure so clearly I guess I was wrong he wasn't behind this I thought he was behind this but I guess he wasn't and uh when I was home alone with my wife there was this moment where we were in different rooms and she she came into the kitchen where I was getting something to eat and she says I feel like God is placing on my heart really clearly like as clearly as if he was saying it out loud read the story of the feeding of the 5000 in the Bible when when Jesus was had been preaching for several days and the crowd was starving and and a boy brings Five Loaves and two fish and he multiplies the Loaves and fish and feeds 5 000 people and so we didn't know why we were supposed to read that story and what it meant but so we're reading it and trying to glean something from it and one thing we noticed was that the reason that the people were so hungry was Jesus's fault he's the one who'd been talking for so long he he brought them to that place of hunger where the only thing left to satisfy it was a miracle so we thought oh okay maybe God is behind this and he's bringing us to this place of desperation and now a miracle is coming you know maybe the box office numbers will magically turn around this weekend and and we're going to be able to have this great story to tell and that didn't happen in fact that night the numbers got got even a little worse it was almost like God was saying that's not the lesson that I have for you in the story but we didn't know we were just trying to figure out what is it that we're trying to learn you know that we need to learn from this and that night at uh four o'clock in the morning I'm on I'm writing a memo a 15-page memo about everything that went wrong and what I need to learn from it and what the mistakes I made and why this was my fault and trying to solve the issue so that this doesn't happen again and just a message pops up on my computer through Facebook from someone I've never met just a Facebook friend didn't even say hi all he said was remember it's not your job to feed the 5 000. it's only to provide the Loaves and fish wow like just and and I'm like how I I type it back I'm like what are you doing up at four in the morning that was my first question and he's like well I'm on the other side of the world I'm in Romania I'm visiting my brother I said do you mind me asking why you said that and he goes oh that that wasn't me God told me to tell that to you and in that moment my life changed because a I felt more than ever like God was present and in this and watching and had you know had my interests in mind you know and I I felt I felt I felt more cared for in that moment than ever because it was like he was saying yeah this movie failed but I've got something for you in it and um but then also that concept this is the answer to your question I know it's a long way to get to it but but you're asking if I was surprised in that moment in my early 40s for the first time in my life I stopped caring about the results for the first time I was someone who felt responsible for results I felt responsible for success or failure even if it was something that was God breathed or God inspired and uh and so for the first time I was like okay all right I'm gonna get on this plan of the Five Loaves and two fish that I provide need to be good and healthy so that if God chooses to multiply them they can feed people but if not that's up to him the results aren't up to me anymore the uh the successor failure isn't up to me how it's used or not used is not up to me when I present my Five Loaves and two fish to God and he deems them worthy there were transactions over and I I really Embrace that and it became a superpower in many ways I stopped thinking about goals and trying to achieve and numbers and success and I just literally focused on what's in front of me and what can I do and if if I'm in God's will if I feel like what I'm doing is is is right and what he wants and that's that's all I'm focused on and so am I surprised that the show ended up blowing up based on a short film that I did for my church like it was several months later after my big failure I had to script for a short film about the birth of Christ and perspective of the Shepherds that I had written and but put on the Shelf because I was doing this big movie and I said to my church you know do we want to do this and they said yes that's when I got the idea for the show for the show and uh but I didn't think the show was going to get made because you know there's not people lining up around the block to do a Jesus show and I was coming off of a career failure so uh this short film ended up going out on social media crowdfunded 10 million dollars for season one of the chosen it shattered the all-time crowdfunding record all these things I thought were ridiculous yeah but I was on the Loaves and Fishes plan right so I'm like you know what it's not my job to worry about that so I'm not surprised because God can do anything but I wouldn't have been surprised if it would have failed as well for whatever you want to consider failure but if nothing would have happened from The Chosen I wouldn't have been surprised by that either so I'm just on this I'm just making Loaves and fish the blank the blank screen for season four the scripts that I'm writing now doesn't care about how successful the show has been I still have to try to write a show that is good and honoring yeah and so again I know that's a really long answer to your question but it's good there's a lot of good lessons in there it's funny because my dad tells me the same thing because just like in any work that someone does that a Christian does there are times that you feel like is it really making an impact am I really doing the right thing or in that stuff and saying that and that wasn't exactly what I wanted to say or maybe I'm not having the effect that I want and my dad always just says fishes and Loaves oh really yes that's the same thing that my dad tells me even though that passage of scripture is historically true it's not primarily a metaphor the principle is there the principle is there is that God is going to multiply how he wants to multiply and as you said the point is not the result the point is The Obedience the point is that God is going to get Glory through our obedience audience whether it ends in what we call failure or what we call success so I'm appreciative of your of your long answer there's a lot of good lessons in that yeah and and the thing is it would have been ridiculous for The Boy Who provided the Loaves and fish to go home to his parents and say I fed 5 000 people today right isn't that amazing of course not that's ridiculous that's that's how I talk about the chosen people like wow are you you know are you proud of what the chosen has done I'm like I'm not responsible for 100 million people around the world watching the show like that I you know I feel like my Loaves and fish are pretty good and I'm proud of that but yeah the multiplication is really not up to me and and so yeah that that metaphor what's interesting about the story too is that God could have just could have just multiplied Fish and Loaves from scratch like he could have just waved his hand and yeah and all that Fish and Loaves could have just come from nothing but he he does want us to participate he does use us and then when it came time to to distribute it he had the disciples go hand out all the Loaves and fish yeah I mean he does par all the things that he we don't need him to do he wants us to do foreign sponsor for the day is public SQ that stands for Public Square and it's this incredible app that can connect you to businesses and services in your area that actually align with your values so you don't have to worry about going to a coffee shop that is actually communist or buying your clothes from someone who is then turning around and and donating your money to Planned Parenthood you can try to build a parallel economy in your own life by supporting businesses and people that support the things that you believe in by going to the Public Square app you can also list your business and so if you own a business or have a service and you love America and you want customers that align with your values then you can list your business on Public Square go to publicsq.com all you got to do is create an account you'll put you know where you live so you can find these local businesses you can download the app at the App Store and you can go to publicsq.com that's publicsq.com [Music] and that's something really we see throughout scripture that I've noticed that God is a god of processes he could really do anything automatically he didn't need you know Israel to wander through the Wilderness for 40 years he could have just said here's the promised land I got those enemies out you're good to go and yet we constantly see him um sanctifying and bringing them through challenges and really putting them in a position to where they have to depend on him and we just have to believe that all of that all of those processes are for God's glory even when we don't see it yeah like the The Parting of the Red Sea he still he said I need you to strike your staff on the Rock like there's always something that he asks us to do to kind of unlock this what's bigger it's it's a fascinating one yeah and it's not that he needs art right of course not no effort it's just that somehow he gets Glory out of it I imagine that it is a huge undertaking and you kind of just mentioned to this when you're thinking okay you're not responding accountable for the millions of people watching this but I still imagine as you are trying to create a series The Chosen that reflects the Life of Christ that is as biblically and historically culturally accurate as possible while still having to take creative license for example like Matthew you depict him as someone who's on the Spectrum we don't see that in the Bible and so how do you approach that huge task of trying to stay as accurate and grounded as possible while also being creative and creating a series that people really want to watch yeah well what's interesting is uh I would say probably 95 percent of the content of the show isn't directly from scripture people call it a Bible show they'll call it a Jesus show and I'm I'm okay with that but I'll say this is actually I mean the Bible is for sure this the primary source of Truth and inspiration for the show but there's a ton of content that isn't actually directly from scripture so to your question it's a it's a dangerous proposition you know you're walking a fine line especially as someone like myself who loves the Bible and I know that people who watch it the majority of people who watch it are going to be wanting us to be remain faithful to the scriptures as much as possible we operate from the this question is this plausible whatever we write that it didn't come from scripture is this plausible culturally historically and does it fit within the character and intentions of Jesus in the gospels even if it's not directly from them or even if we don't know if it's fact or not so for example Matthew being on the Spectrum uh is that plausible I think so why well we this is this is a good uh example of how we approach the show in general we start with what we know from scripture so we know that Matthew was a tax collector uh that means he was a numbers guy uh he he we know he's a facts guy the first chapter of his book is a genealogy divided into three sections of 14 names a piece uh we know that he chose a profession that made him an outcast hated by the Jews for betraying his people by being a tax collector and working for the Romans disrespected by the Romans for being Jewish all of these things were writing them down on a on a big piece of paper as we're formulating the character of Matthew and I'm someone who's very familiar with the autism world I have autism in my family I've done a lot of work in the special needs community so I know autism very very closely and uh I'm like these are these are traits of Asperger's these are traits of you know numbers facts uh socially Outcast but maybe comfortable with that because maybe you prefer to be a little bit uh alone and we thought what if what if Matthew what if we could have what if we could portray him as being on the Spectrum think of how human that is think of how relatable that could be for people um taking the stories from 2000 years ago and actually putting them in to a modern context for the viewer could be really powerful and relatable now doing something just to be relatable that could be a problem we're not trying to take the Gospel Art we're going to change it we're going to make it more we're gonna we're gonna water it down so people get it we're gonna do something we're gonna try to have more diversity just to be politically correct just try to appeal as many people as possible that would be a problem but this is plausible if it's plausible yeah and it happens to allow the viewer to connect even more deeply to the people and see Jesus Through The Eyes of people who actually followed him that could be really impactful so that's how we approach all of these stories that you see in the show some come directly from scripture some come from our imagination but I think all of it comes through this filter of plausibility based on a desire to be faithful to the scriptures and to the character and intentions of Jesus in the gospels it's not easy but now it's on Dangerous Ground and we get we get a lot of criticism obviously from people who don't want to see anything that's not from scripture but uh but we do believe that it's a it's a we're not the Bible we're not pretending to be the Bible we're not a replacement for scripture yeah we never claim to be we're not adding to scripture because scripture is scripture that's the Bible your Bible hasn't changed since the chosen came out uh we're not adding to it this is a show about first century Galilee using the Bible as our primary source right has there been any criticism with every popular project there's going to be criticism it's just inevitable has there been any criticism that has made you go hmm actually that might be a good point or it has like caused you to either change direction or at least I don't know but think a little bit more deeply about a choice that the series made I would say not a lot and here's why not because I'm arrogant and don't accept criticism it's because we do so much of that work on the front end yeah so when we do something on in the show that someone is bothered by sometimes they'll even say boy you know you you need to change that or why aren't you apologizing for that we're offended you know and I'll say we we thought through all this deeply on the front end I mean I have I have Bible Consultants that I that I work with um I go through a lot of research a lot of prayer a lot of we we take this very very seriously so by the time we've released the show it's very unlikely that someone's going to point out something that we haven't thought of and considered now there's been stuff that I that we missed you know whether it's some sort of cultural fact some historical fact that maybe we got wrong um you know inadvertently or you know maybe slip through the cracks but when it comes to our Biblical approach or our approach to Theology and whatnot it's unlikely that a YouTube comment is going to suddenly settle two thousand years of debate about the Theology of God versus man and you know they're the most controversial thing that we that we've done to the to date was there was about 10 seconds of Jesus he was preparing for the big Sermon on the Mount and he's kind of working out some of the things in his head of what he wants to say and he's working on the turn of phrase it's kind of like it's like sermon prep and there were some people who just were so offended that God Jesus would ever need to prepare or that he would struggle to come up with the right words or anything like that and I understand what they're saying um but they would be like Jesus Is God he would never never struggle you know uh to think of anything and then you look at a verse like in Philippians where it says that Jesus did not account to Jesus did not count equality with God as something to be grasped but he actually gave up a lot of his the things that he has when he's sitting at the right hand of the father he didn't have when he was on Earth and so there's a spectrum of of what Jesus may have known or not known how God was he how man was he you know there's a term called the hypostatic union where if he was both fully God in full he met well this has been debated and discussed for thousands of years it's it's vexed Scholars the world over people who love the Bible can disagree on this issue and yet a YouTube commenter can say no I know it and you're wrong and I'm going to settle this debate so I'm using that as an example of of the kind of thing where the decision to do that on my part was was made and thought through deeply before we brought it to the world so their comment isn't going to necessarily make me go oh I never thought of that let me change mine so right and you're not claiming that those things are not debatable right and so because as you said I mean Jesus is fully God and fully man a lot of those things of how that manifested itself what weakness is he did have um as far as even just the weakness of hunger or the weakness of thirst like how much did that really have an effect on his life and on his mind and so I think it just goes back to kind of what you were saying that is it plausible not is it in scripture or is it yeah and I even said I'm not willing to say that our betrayal in that moment was fact I don't know that but neither do you so let's explore together you shouldn't be relying on me or the show for your entire theological interpretation of who God is you should be in a good church you should be reading the scriptures that's where this show is a supplement this show is a is a is like as you just mentioned it's it's what we believe a plausible attempt to capture the people of first century Galilee but I think it's I think it's good healthy discussions yeah yeah I would have thought that you would say that the most controversial thing or the thing that caused the most criticism was when Jesus said I am the law of Moses and people interpreted that as quoting The Book of Mormon which I know that you've already answered this it was not a direct quote from The Book of Mormon not also a direct quote from scripture so I would have thought that that was the thing that caused the most well that episode hasn't come out yet that was in the trailer oh so so yeah I must have missed that part no no no no I mean it's it well it was in the trailer and and so yes I would say you're right that that became uh one of the most controversial things uh yeah because so there's a moment in episode three which is coming up uh this Sunday night actually um that we have our big live stream on this on Christmas uh December 25th uh we have our big episode three live stream and that'll get give everyone the chance to see the scene that has the quote that vexed so many people so uh one of the Pharisees is really upset with Jesus for claiming to be the Messiah in his own Hometown and uh they're saying you're a false prophet and uh because you're a false prophet we have no choice but to follow the law of Moses which of course says you put to death false prophets and Jesus steps up to him and says I am the law of Moses and yes their their rumor got spread that that's a quote from The Book of Mormon I've never actually read the book of Mormon uh so I I you know even if it had been a quote I wouldn't have known it and it's not even a direct quote anyway the quote I think for the Book of Mormon is like I am the law I am the law yeah yeah so all that to say um yes that there were some major criticism and controversy came about from that quote and uh what's what's interesting about it is that I think sometimes people make assumptions even about what you mean from something so for example Jesus in that scene I do believe it's plausible for him to claim I'm the law of Moses many many people many scholars would would consider Jesus to be the living breathing Torah The Living Word as they say um that that he that even though he has fulfilled the law that doesn't mean the law is done and of course we believe he in the Father co-authored the law so all of those things are again theological discussions worthy of of debate that said what he is doing in that moment is he is asserting Authority so the Pharisee is saying the law of Moses is our Authority and he's going I'm I'm your Authority yeah so it's like if someone comes to the to like let's say a big authority figure comes to someone's house and and uh and and the person living in the house says hey I'm you know what I'm going to call the police the person goes well I am the police now that doesn't necessarily mean they're literally a police officer but they're saying I'm the authority whatever you see is your Authority that's me that's what Jesus is asserting in that scene and in the context of the full scene which you can see in episode three is it's probably the most blatant declaration in the whole show of Jesus as God Jesus as Son of God Jesus as the Savior yeah so a lot of what I kind of chuckled to myself going a lot of the critics of this moment are actually if they saw the whole scene or seeing it's probably the most blatant depiction of Jesus as the authority that will ever show so but you bring up a great example which is that when we're doing 56 episodes of this show it's going to be about 50 hours of Television portraying Jesus the most famous and influential man in history there's going to be moments that everyone has a disagreement with even as someone like myself who loves God's word the most staunch practicing Evangelical will at some point in this show see something that they don't fully agree with the hope is that you have a little bit of Grace and go you know what there's things on which we can disagree it doesn't mean that you're a heretic it doesn't mean that you're trying to lead people away from the authentic Jesus it means that there's a lot of things that we don't fully know and understand let's wrestle with them [Music] all right it's time to tell you once again about one of my favorite sponsors and that is Carly Jean Los Angeles the reason why this is one of my favorite sponsors is because even if they weren't a sponsor to the show I would still be buying their clothes because their clothes are amazing they're so high quality they're exactly my style I'm a very simple gal they're simple clothes for all kinds of Seasons all different seasons of Life plus my girl Carly Jean she's a Christian she's got her values I love supporting her she's built an amazing company also their Basics line all 100 American made and you know that's important for me so this is another way that you can support Christians who are trying to build companies that support the things that you and I believe in go to carlyjeanlosangeles.com use promo code Ali B for 20 off excluding final sale items always free shipping over a hundred dollars use promo code Ali b-a-l-l-i-e-b for 20 off always free shipping over a hundred dollars Ali B at carlyjeanlos angeles.com [Music] the number one question that I got from my audience as you can probably guess was about Mormonism and about some recent comments that you made you clarified those comments you said you know there are some LDS people that I know we love the same Jesus and then you kind of clarified that to say not that LDS and Evangelical con or Evangelical Christians have the same theology but that the ones you know love the same Jesus I mean as you know some people have a problem with that Mormonism does not believe that Jesus is God believes that Jesus is a Son of God and became like God with actually a brother of Satan so it's not the same Jesus it's not the same God at all and the differences are extremely fundamental I would say much more than you know Catholicism or things like that and so um you know some people were a little concerned concerned about that well out of context you take the phrase that I said where I said we love the same Jesus and they said okay Dallas is saying that all Mormons all LDS folks love the same Jesus as evangelicals now I'm not going to speak for the LDS church but what I was saying and I think I I think I would I think my wording was sloppy I think that I could have clarified a little bit better I do have some LDS friends not I I have LDS friends who I would say don't necessarily love the same Jesus that I do I do have some that we have I have spent hundreds of hours with I have prayed with I have wept with I have gone to Israel with I have spent hundreds of hours of talking and I would say that those friends of mine that I know that I've spent tons of time with when we're talking particularly about Jesus of Nazareth particularly the Jesus of the Gospels it is the same Jesus they they love like the the the show that like the Jesus that I'm portraying in the show the Jesus that we read about in the scriptures um I firmly believe that and I you know in my deep conversations with them that that we're when we're talking about Jesus and Nazareth we're talking about the same one now that the Word was God that is not what Mormons believe well that may not be the official statement of the LDS church but I would say that I know some LDS folks who would say I believe in John John chapter one now that may put them in misalignment with their church I don't know I don't get into the details of of whether or not what what their Church thinks but I'm just saying I have you know I've literally asked those very questions to some of my friends and I've gone well what do you think of John chapter one I am in the beginning with the word the Word was God and the Word was with God I go I believe that I go well it seems to contradict this piece and they go well that piece might have been misinterpreted by some people so I'm just saying I'm not I'm not I'm not disagreeing with you I would say if you said to me the LDS church as a whole and does the Evangelical world as a whole share the same fundamental theological beliefs about Jesus I would say no but I would say even within the Evangelical World there are evangelicals who I would say don't necessarily know Jesus as the Bible is portraying because as a Bible is is contending because I just don't believe in broad broadly stating about any one people group this is what they all believe and this is what they all know I wouldn't say that about any particular people group I've I've known Evangel I've sat next to evangelicals in churches who I would say yeah we're going to the same church but we don't necessarily understand or believe the same things so I'm I'm acknowledging that in the in the interview that I did several years ago that my wording could have been sloppy so that I wanted to make sure it didn't sound like I'm speaking for an entire people group or speaking about an entire people group yeah I would just say that there are I think all of us I think you've exp I think all of us have experienced this if you're if you're a conservative if you're a Christian if you're an Evangelical if you're a Catholic we've all experienced being painted with a broad brush based on the the name of our tribe that we're in and I've I've seen it happen multiple times that because I'm part of a particular label that there's an assumption made about that I must accept or believe everything about that's typically associated with that label I would say that there's oftentimes exceptions and and I would say that there there can be exceptions in this case and again I'm not saying that we all agree with the same thing and that we all have the same beliefs about everything but but I would say that uh that I was speaking about specific people in that case yeah and I would just encourage people go back and listen to um Thursday's episode we talked to a woman who spent 30 years in the Mormon church and then became a Christian and it's not saying that everyone with the with a label believes the same things but it is looking at particular doctrines and just making sure that people know uh the true gospel what is a Works based religion um versus what is by grace through faith and that is what Christianity is founded upon um okay let me say one more if you don't mind one more clarifier too I have spoken with I would say it's a conservative estimate to say dozens like personal conversations with dozens of people from the LDS Faith who have said to me because of the chosen I am finding myself closer to the to Jesus and closer to Grace than I ever have in my entire life that I am finding myself falling more in love with Jesus than the church and that to me um that would be a big shift for Mormons who really see Church the LDS church as the authority so that's I mean I know I know people who for whom their Church LDS or Catholic or any any kind of formal religion is in many almost like God is almost like the thing that they worship the thing that is their connection to God and as an Evangelical I passionately believe that you don't need anything formal or anything to to to connect you to God that you can have a direct relationship with Jesus and I have talked to dozens personally myself and heard from hundreds online or even thousands of people have said I am finding myself loving Jesus more and finding a personal relationship with Jesus more so than my church more so than anything formal anything uh any any person or thing as a connection that I'm I'm actually getting direct access to Jesus because of this and so even if by some chance I disagree with a viewer about someone else's faith I can tell you that the chosen itself the content of the chosen itself I'm responsible for it's not influenced by any religion it's not influenced by any church any person it comes from a personal belief in Jesus as the Son of God as the ultimate Authority as God and uh and if that can actually have an influence and an impact on people who Maybe have in the past not been able to have a personal relationship because of whether it's a lack of faith or sometimes it's because of the idolatry of their own church the idolatry of of uh their own habits the idolatry of of their own vices but you can actually get past all of that yeah and I just want my listeners and my viewers to know to make clear that Mormonism is not a denomination of Christianity that there are fundamental differences go back and listen to Thursday's episode but the reason why I am not concerned with some people say well I know there are Mormons who work with the company that distribute the reason why that doesn't to me mean that someone should not watch The Chosen is because from what I've seen Mormon theology is not influencing The Chosen it is scripture and so there are lots of different people of lots of different faiths that we work with that aren't necessarily influenced in our work there are people that would be like saying that you shouldn't listen to relatable because Blaze TV distributes it and the people who run Blaze TV might have you know different beliefs than I do and so that is not including LDS yeah but I didn't want but I did want to just kind of give us the opportunity to kind of talk about that and hear you clarify it because I know a lot of people you know did have questions yeah absolutely and I think those are healthy questions and I would just say like you just said even if we end up disagreeing on some of these issues I don't believe there's a disagreement about in the content of the show and uh I'm gonna I've said from the beginning the show speaks for itself and I am a flawed sinful human being and regardless of our conversation about LDS folks there's plenty of other things about me or something that I things that I've done things that I still do whatever that that we may disagree about or that I struggle with like do not look at the show as the Bible do not look at me as God do not look at Jonathan Rooney who plays Jesus as Jesus we are flawed human beings unlike the Bible the Bible is perfect the Bible is what you are looking to as your Authority this is a show that's going to have uh that's made by a flawed person and I'm not claiming direct scriptural Authority right or inspiration from God I'm doing my best to try to give a plausible account of uh of of the truth and intentions of Jesus and the Gospels [Music] okay it is time it's time it's time to get good ranchers I know you've been thinking about it you've been listening to me talk about it for the past like year and a half and you've been wondering is it worth it and you're still going to the grocery store every week and you're getting this meat that's from like Brazil in different parts of the world that's not even good so why don't you just get your meat from good ranchers it'll show up on dry ice to your front door and then you're guaranteed that all of this meat is American made your supported American farms and ranches you're guaranteed that it's really good really high quality you get a wide variety and you don't have to spend time at the grocery store plus if you subscribe you get locked in at the price that you pay now you subscribe for all of 2023 and your price won't go up so you don't have to worry about inflation when it comes to buying your meat there is literally no reason for you not to buy good ranchers so when you do go to goodranters.com pick out the meat that you want put it in a box and use promo code Ali when you use promo code Ally you get 35 off so use my promo code at goodranchors.com that's promo code Ally goodreachers.com code Ally [Music] I think we have a short clip of one of the is it one of the upcoming episodes so this is episode two which I which I would have I think aired last night yes yes this is uh this is a scene with uh Little James who's one of the disciples who is played by Jordan Walker Ross who has cerebral palsy miles cerebral palsy and scoliosis and when I decided to cast him as one of the disciples I remember thinking oh boy speaking of theological implications and debates and all that we're gonna have to tackle this one of why doesn't God heal everybody because we can look around and see that you know Jesus while he was here on Earth probably we don't see too many we don't see any examples in the gospels of him not healing someone uh so that may you know that I know some people had questions when they watched the scene that we're about to show of of uh of one of his own disciples saying hey you're sending us out two by two to go heal and I'm not healed yeah why is that yeah okay let's go ahead and play that I wanted to ask you a question please you're sending us out of the ability to heal the second lane yes that is what you said yes so you're telling me that I have the ability to heal me I just difficult to imagine with my condition which you haven't healed do you want to be healed yes of course if that's possible we've seen enough to know what's possible I think you so this is an episode that's playing right before Christmas and Christmas is a beautiful time of year but for a lot of people it's a difficult time of year whether they have been through tough experiences surrounding Christmas or whether they're dealing with some kind of chronic illness or trial right now and they're asking this very question they're asking well why won't God fix it I know that he can he's good he loves me he's powerful and yet he's not healing me he's not healing my loved one he's not fixing it what is the message of Hope to those people going through that right now well yeah in in the scene in episode two um Jesus says yeah it's a good story if if when I do Miracles you know that's a good story um but but when you think about it sometimes even we as human beings even when we experience a miracle or a great Joy or some sort of wonderful resolution to a problem that we face on Earth even then sometimes we forget it sometimes it doesn't stick sometimes we reject God even after that takes place Sometimes the best story and sometimes the best example of God's faithfulness is in the midst of pain and struggle when we can still trust God that is oftentimes what allows us to have the most impact on people because uh there are so many people in this world who don't necessarily believe and who are hurting and we can say you know what God hurt God hurts sometimes too Jesus experienced suffering pain he didn't promise that he would alleviate all suffering and pain if anything he promised that we would experience a lot of it on this Earth uh the Book of James talks about there's a verse that says consider it Joy when you experience Trials of many kinds because the the the uh the testing of your faith produces endurance and uh it's it's similar to um you know working out you know like when you the process of working out oftentimes means lifting things that weren't meant to be lifted and and causing your body pushing your body past what it what you think it might be capable of and that produces strength and so during this holiday season um with sometimes it's a it almost puts a spotlight on your suffering because you're seeing everyone having so much joy and happiness and you're like why aren't I experiencing that and uh Little James says later in that scene he's like I I know it's easy to say I'm fearfully and wonderfully made it's the song of David you know it's a Psalm but it doesn't make experiencing this any easier and it doesn't make me feel like less of a burden and Jesus talks about how all of us have something all of us every single person that you see successful or not successful has something in their life that is a struggle or a hindrance or a or a pain point or some piece of suffering and finding joy in the midst of suffering it's not easy but when you have a relationship with God and you have the ability to think on an eternal perspective as opposed to a temporary one on when you can get on the joy program instead of the happiness program because happiness comes and goes but that joy that that is can exist even in the midst of of pain it's difficult and I don't think in in one minute I'm going to be able to to to give the answer to how to find it Beyond just all I can tell you is that I I've never met anyone who didn't end up finding a relationship with with Jesus who didn't get more on that Joy plan as opposed to the happiness plan and I do think at the risk of sounding cheesy that's what makes Christmas so awesome is you go when Jesus was born the thing that we're celebrating the Messiah the savior of the universe actually came to a stable to parents who were really poor and scared and in over their heads and just as freaked out as sometimes we get and that's part of what the chosen is all about is trying to help you understand that this that the questions and the challenges and the the doubts that they faced two thousand years ago are the same that we face today and hopefully you can see that the answer and the solution to those questions and doubts is the same today as it was two thousand years ago yes and amen well thank you so much thanks for taking the time to talk to us I really appreciate it yeah thanks so much for having me on I appreciate this Merry Christmas Merry Christmas yes foreign [Music]

Channel: Allie Beth Stuckey

Views: 375,001

Keywords: Allie Stuckey, Allie Beth Stuckey, allie beth, allie on blazetv, relatable podcast, relatable with allie stuckey, relatable with allie beth stuckey, blazetv, dallas jenkins, the chosen, the chosen season 3, dallas jenkins the chosen, the chosen dallas jenkins, dallas jenkins interview, allie stuckey podcast, allie beth stuckey podcast, christianity, christian podcast, theology, theology podcast, christian movies, crtv, blaze tv, conservative, podcast, relatable podcast allie, god

Id: D_kiMFgy9Sg

Length: 50min 11sec (3011 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 19 2022