Is Jesus God? Debate between Sheikh Ahmed Deedat and Dr Anis Shorrosh

[Music] in the name of Allah the most gracious the most merciful it was at the end of the great historical debate in the Royal Albert Hall London on the 7th of July 1985 between Professor Floyd e Clark of the United States of America and Mr Ahmed d of South Africa that Dr Soros confronted Mr didat for the first time during the question and answer session at the aforementioned meeting on the subject was Christ crucified this liberated Palestinian now a citizen of the United States well spoken and immaculately dressed was easily mistaken for a pistan now listen to his well articulated English and still more eloquent Arabic at question time and Mr dad reply I would like to say that I'm grateful for this opportunity and my questions are actually two number one if the Quran is indeed from God does it contradict itself in as much as it says [Music] okay therefore Jesus was born he died and he rose again the second question if God I'm sorry I'm sorry the rules the r rules of the game is to ask one question and get the back so that other people will have a chance thank you now the question is directed to Mr D Mr D thank the verse in question [Music] is which translated means so peace is on me the day that I was born the day that I die and the day that I shall be raised to life again the day that I die it is not that that I died it's not died it's in the future Mr deat did not know during his lecture tour of Britain that he was being followed subsequently at the end of one of his lectures in the city hall of Birmingham during question time which is one of the regular features at every lecture of Mr didat Dr SOS came forward to challenge Mr DEET to a public debate fortunately in this advanced electronic age we were able to capture Dr SOS on video to reproduce for you this historical record I greet you in love and respect you have spoken eloquently and forcefully but I want to challenge you anywhere in the world to meet me and debate any topic you get with because you have given these people whom I respect as knowledgeable people misinformation and as an ad I take great pride saying that our great prophet is a great man indeed but my question is following the chman suggestion sir is would you willing to meet with me sir anywh the world if you got any question question this is the question uh brother if you will just identify yourself as to who you are a Palestinian Arab who is one of 10 million Arabs who claim the Christian faith as their faith and are proud to say that Islam is in reality a branch of the Christian faith and a sect not a religion of its own right thank you very much uh dear brother I still haven't got the name it doesn't matter an anise an sounds more Pakistani in name anise however brother anise I accept your challenge and I'm giving you blank check to hire the Royal Albert Hall on the subject you can choose I give them to you we have already discussed the crucifixion and we don't want to bore the people with the same thing again and again you can choose subject like is Jesus God is Jesus God because I know the Christians I don't know whether you are one of those but the Christians as a old they believe that Jesus Christ is called incarnate is Jesus God or is the Bible God's word or the truth of Trinity or Jesus man with her God it's all being recorded I think we can get a a tape of that I said is Jesus God or is the Bible God's word or the truth about Trinity or the Jesus man me of God then all of them then you do book the hall for four or five days consecutive no no it is you my brother you challenge me you see I I pay for the Royal Albert H an American he was gentleman enough he was gentleman enough to have a dialogue with me for that because I suggested to him I paid for the whole I advertise thank you very much that if I can have that inviting from you before you go away from the hall I would like to help this in writing from you your name address and where you are and then I can give you a date you know give you a date any date that Suits You in September in September or after you have to go after winter September because beautiful so you hire the hall and you tell me I will make my duty de orive to be there de orive I'll be there note that during Mr D's acceptance of the Christians challenge Mr didat had mistaken Dr SOS for a Pakistani during The Interchange of words in Birmingham no connection was established between the Challenger and the questioner of the Royal Albert Hall had it not been for the gift of this electronic wizard the video all the historical exchanges would have been lost to posterity and without this audiovisual recording we would never have been sure that the questioner of the Royal Albert Hall on the 7th of July and the Challenger on the 15th of July were one and the same person while still in the UK in July 1985 the topic for the debate that is is Jesus God and the format and the tentative date were finalized between Dr SOS and Mr deat but in a letter dated the 14th of August 1985 Dr SOS changed the subject and also invented a new format I quote point three the topic is is Christ indeed the Son of God point 4 part three first Speaker Mr ammed dad 50 minutes point four second speaker Mr Anis SOS 50 minutes five second rebuttal Mr deat 10 minutes 6 second rebuttal Dr SOS 10 minutes 7 final remarks Mr datat 5 minutes point8 final remarks Dr SOS 5 minutes on the 1st of September Mr didat took Dr SOS to task for going back on his word and I quote I hope you receive my telegram of even date I regret very much your changing of the subject from is Jesus God to an insipid topic like is Christ indeed the Son of God topic we debated this subject while both of us were in the UK and we'd settled for is Jesus God a hard-hitting succinct potent and dynamic Topic in contrast with your is Christ indeed the Son of God why don't you believe that Jesus is God if you don't then we will change the subject but you had agreed are you getting cold feet you know that your format is paintly unjust why not leave the format as agreed in other words that the first Speaker whoever he is speak for 50 minutes and the second speaker for 60 Minutes followed by the first Speaker who will have the final 10 minutes same as between me and Dr Clark to appear just and fair the chairman will toss a coin in front of the audience you were absolutely tickled by this suggestion of mine on the the phone have you forgotten this also on the 18th of September 1985 Dr SOS finally agreed to the original subject to be debated but he leaves the format in the air as late as November the 15th an unjust format is still being stubbornly mooted by Dr SOS and again I quote 50 minutes first Speaker 50 minutes second speaker 8 minutes rebuttal first Speaker 8 Minute rebuttal second speaker up to 15 minutes before the start of the great debate the format was still unsettled Mr deat unwillingly agreed to the unjust format of Dr SOS leaving everything to Allah and the tossing of the coin Dr SOS lost the toss and the outcome of the debate we leave to you the intelligent viewer to decide we have a notice between 1 and 2,000 people were unable to get in here tonight and therefore they were reluctantly turned away by the police on the instruction of the authorities here because there was no room in a debate of this nature it's important that we understand the character of the meeting that we've come to and I believe this is a historic occasion where those who come from a Christian perspective can listen to those who come from an Islamic perspective and vice versa and I speak as chairman of this meeting I am a committed Christian my name is Clive Calver and I'm General Secretary of the Evangelical Alliance for the purpose of this meeting I will remain totally impartial and will seek to act in true British fashion as a neutral we'll Endeavor to do so for the next 2 and 1 half hours I do want to welcome you on behalf of both our participants who are thrilled that this Hall is so full tonight it's good that you've taken the time to come to this important occasion you may be wondering when you yourselves would have an opportunity in participating in this debate and after our two main speakers have delivered their initial address there will be an opportunity for you to write down any question that you may wish to have answered on a piece of paper and then the stewards will collect it and will bring it down here in order that it may be drawn in partially from a bin containing all the questions that we receive and with whatever time we have left such questions as can be answered will be answered there are are certain rules governing this debate we would like to request that there be no cheering that there be no overt partisan activities no waving of banners or anything similar and no chanting that is because we believe this is an opportunity to learn and to hear not just to shout for our p uh respective positions our after the main speaker has spoken you may greet his contribution from both sides with polite Applause which will not be extended and we would ask you to observe that and we would ask that those from both perspectives applaud both speakers we are grateful to them for giving their time and their energies in coming to share in this important debate there is one other thing that needs to be stated very firmly once you are in your seats we request that you do not leave your seats unless it is absolutely essential we would ask that you do not move up the aisles and we would ask that in no way do you ever attempt to break through the extensive security Cordon to come onto the platform that would not be in order or fitting as part of this debate and we would ask you just to observe those few limitations what I would like to at this point in time is to introduce our two speakers to you as I've said already we're thrilled that they're here for this vital debate and I'm going to ask Mr Ahmed Thompson if he would just briefly introduce Mr didat to us all thank you good evening Mr Ahmed datat is probably well known to many of you already he's been in England several times before and was here at the Albert Hall in July in last summer in another similar debate to this he's the director of the Islamic propagation Center in Durban in South Africa and he's a man who has studied both the Quran and the Bible for a considerable length of time obviously as a Muslim he accepts the Quran as the final Revelation from God to man to the last of the prophets and much of his perspective is based on what is in the Quran he is also interested in the Bible though which although it does not contain the original Gospel of Jesus in the original Aramaic is nevertheless still an interesting document and perhaps we should just draw your attention to one of the verses of Quran which says and the scien ISS address primarily to the prophet Muhammad peace and blessings of Allah on him but also to all Muslims and it says if anyone disputes with you after the knowledge which has come to you this is the knowledge in the Quran then say to them bring your sons and your women folk and yourselves and ourselves together and let us pray to Allah let us pray to God May the curse of God be on us if we are lying so on behalf of Mr datat and of all the Muslims I would just like to say that as far as the knowledge which he refers to from the Quran May the curse of Allah be on us if it is not true thank you we're pleased to also have on the platform the Reverend Fred masabni uh from Jacksonville Florida uh he's a missionary at large and he's come as Mr Shiro's companion tonight a word or two of introduction to Anish shos Anise is a Palestinian became a refugee in 1948 in Jordan he went to the USA and studied in Mississippi where he received the degrees of Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of divinity he is married with four children three boys and a girl and has worked as a Christian evangelist since 1966 he lives in Mile Alabama Obama and possesses a further degree in the Doctorate of Ministries and anise is warmly welcome here tonight as well having made the trip across the Atlantic before we toss the coin this is the moment where we introduced the threats should anybody get really carried away they will be carried away this will not be done by either a Christian or a Muslim it will be done by both because we are thrilled that the stewarding of this event is a Cooperative Venture as well and so please would you observe the regulations do not exceed what we have said do not attempt to come to the platform in any form please restrain yourselves you may well hear things tonight that will be offensive to you from whichever position you may come that without being taken too far is in the nature of the debate we would urge you to accept that and recognize that the best testimony you can give for whichever position of Faith you take will be seen in conduct not in words and however much you may wish to make a point in words the attitude and conduct that we all have towards each other tonight will show far more of our faith than any words we might use so let us act in courtesy and in gentle cooperation together tonight that's going to be the spirit of this debate that's the way we're going to handle it and if there is any need for any interjection then I will come to this microphone and we'll make an interjection in a few moments both our speakers are going to speak to us they will speak for 50 minutes each I will gently touch them on the elbow when they have 2 minutes left 2 minutes left if they don't finish on time I will stand up and place a brotherly arm around their shoulder and encourage them to sit down but I'm sure that won't be necessary we're going to be very Democratic about this we're going to spin a coin to see who goes first going to ask Mr Amed Thompson if he'll spin the coin he has one in his hand going to ask Anish shos if he'll call in the air and we'll see what happens and E has called heads which will give him the choice if he is correct of who goes first if it is Tails Mr D will have the choice of who goes first it's tals Mr D you have the choice Mr sherro goes first thank you very much I greet you tonight in the name of Jesus the nazarine the man from my hometown in the city of Nazareth we are taught never go she a friend empty-handed tonight I take great pleasure in presenting my friend whom I'm meeting personally for the first time Mr with a present I also like to present our chairman of the deacons a special present and this is the key to our city of M Alabama which which is presented to people who contribute much not only to our great City but to others as well and to all the colleagues of my friend mrat I have a special Bible marker from the holy city of Jerusalem with the picture of the do of rock and other sites all will receive one [Applause] comp I believe that many of you have been sitting here for a while some have traveled a long distance it is time for you to rise for a few moments would you please stand up with me everyone and as you stand I'd like to share with you a practice that I do I read my Bible in my native language of Arabic on my knees and I read it standing in public as a symbol of respect and reverence for those of you who brought your Bible like my suggested in his announcements and advertisement You may wish to turn to Hebrews chapter 1 please Hebrews chapter 1 we read only the first eight verses God who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to to the fathers by the prophets as in these last days spoken to us by his son whom he has appointed heir of all things through whom also he made the worlds who being the brightness of his glory and the express image of his person and upholding All Things by the word of his power when he had by himself purged our sins sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High having become so much better than the angels as he has inherited obtained more excellent Name than they for to which of the Angels did he ever say you are my son today I have begotten you I will be to him a father and he shall be to me a son but when he again brings the firstborn into the world he say say let all the angels of God worship Him and of the angels He says who makes his angels spirits and his ministers flame of fire but to the son he says your throne oh God is forever and ever a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom thank you and be seated please the distinguished governor of ancient Palestine Pontius pilot stood on a balcony overlooking a crowd gathered in the courtyard at the Antonia Fortress in Jerusalem where I liveed before I moved away he asked the Restless crowd a very serious question What then shall I do with Jesus who is called the Christ tonight 1952 years later and ever since that historic event the Eternal Destiny of every human soul depends on how he answers this question the answer of the crowd on that early morning in Jerusalem was crucify him the reason which they gave to pilate according to our law he ought to die because he made himself the Son of God dreading is serious surprising faced by the jealous religious leaders and seeking to please the demanding crowd the governor succumbed in spite of his forthright declaration three times I find no fault in him six centuries later the Quran also calls him zakan thoughtless sinless I ask you tonight was Jesus of Nazareth a liar a lunatic oh Lord as he claimed he was creation conscience and history substantiates the existence of God religions are man's effort serious effort at finding God so say the philosopher ERS theologians historians but wait a moment I want to ask you a question is God really lost for us to look for him and find him is it not we who are lost and therefore he comes to seek us that is why he through Christ come looking for you and me once again to impress your intelligent Minds I read from the Bible 2 Corinthians 4: 3 and 4 but even if our gospel is veiled it is veiled to those who are perishing whose Minds the God of this age has blinded who do not believe lest the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God should shine on them or the Bible is the most extraordinary book in the world the divine library is made of 66 books written over a period of 1,500 years by over 40 writers some were Kings some were poor some were Rich some were old some were young some were shepherds some were fishermen yet it shows itself as the inspired inherent word of God because the author is one the Holy Spirit of the Living God I read to you from 2 Peter 1 verse 20 and 21 knowing this first that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation for prophecy never came by the will of man but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy [Music] Spirit we know that the Bible is inspired because of the Fulfillment of prophecies uttered centuries before the events ever took place it has influenced the uplifting of human society whenever it has been believed and practiced furthermore the Bible's accuracy has been challenged but never proven its accuracy has been substantiated by historical documents archaeological finds and ancient manuscripts right now there are over 25,000 copies of the scripture available some of them at the Great British museum for you to check out the accuracy of the word of God for instance codex alexandrinus dates back to 350 ad codex vaticanus to 325 ad the Scrolls which covered the entire Old Testament go back to 2,250 years ago some of you are well informed about the Fantastic discoveries of ug garat of 30 years ago in Syria and of 10 years ago in the great city of IAH in which her entire civilization has been on Earth both have increased our faith in biblical Authority and divine inspiration Jesus J our Lord himself who never told the LIE said Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my word shall stand forever listen to the warning at the end of the Bible in Revelation 221 18-9 for I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book if anyone adds to these things God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy God shall take away his part from The Book of Life the god which the Bible reveals to us is one God my dear brothers sisters precious friends there is only one God one God yet unfathomable as it is to our limited mentality mysterious as it is to our understanding this one true God despite every unbelievers rejection atheist agnostic and whatever presents himself as a Triune God it is not my Discovery no it is his own revelation of himself in nature the Bible and other ways let me emphasize that I humbly tonight seek to understand this mystery as much as you do and confess to both of our limitations nevertheless let us please look at examples from nature in which God provides some evidence of the Trinity we have the elements how many three solids gases liquids all matter comes from those three the air we breathe is also three atoms one oxygen one hydrogen one nitrogen but it is the air water is normally liquid but Frozen it becomes ice and boil becomes gas or steam the same substance yet three forms look at the sun night 93 million miles away it's warm its light its heat comes to us yet it is one Sun time is divided into past present future man himself is Spirit mind and body even the family is made up of father mother and children from the very first verses in the Bible the Trinity is revealed for anyone to see if you have your Bible You may wish to look at that we discover in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth here is God the Creator the heavenly father in verse two we discover God the spirit and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water then we are told in verse three then God said let there be light here in plain language in the spoken word of God is the spoken word of God the speech of God if you please the word of God centuries later we had the echo of this very truth in the Gospel of John where we are told in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God and the Word was [Applause] God Allah the word as a person becomes obvious in verse two where we are told he yes the word he he was in the beginning with God once again we Marvel at the revelation of the trinity in the same first chapter of Genesis then God said let us make man in our image according to our likeness verse 26 I urge you to tell me please was God discussing the making of of the crown of his Creation with himself in other words was he talking to himself or was he talking to someone else within this Mighty Trinity we call God indeed the other two persons within the Trinity notice the scripture Our image our likeness let us three clear cut pronouns moving to verse 27 we are astonished again so God created man in his own image in the image of God he created him male and female he created them the Mysteries unveiled as we see three pronouns but not the plural as the above they are now singular yes one God no doubt about it yet three persons a Blessed Trinity in Genesis 3:22 this truth is brought up again then the Lord said behold the man has become like one of us to know good and evil in the book of Beginnings chapter 11: 7 we are informed of this mystery once again when men were building the Tower of Babel come God says let us go down and they confused their language once again I ask you was God talking to himself if so why does he say come let me go down in the awesome vision of of Isaiah in the awesome vision of Isaiah in chapter 6 where the Angels proclamation in verse three holy holy holy is the Lord of hosts the whole earth is full of his glory diligent listeners can you explain to me why holy is repeated three times or not two or four or more is God the spirit the word are getting clearer to you additionally in verse 8 makes the Trinity ever more clear also I heard the voice of the Lord saying whom shall I send and who will go for us did you catch it I send go for us the US is the I the I is the US many of you know Arabic all the Arabic some of us say is my mother's tongue actually it's my tongue my mother still has her tongue I've got my tongue but listen to this our verbs like in all sematic languages present a different Concept in dealing with grammar we have the Old Testament in Hebrew much like Arabic we have a singular verb a dual verb and then three or more take for instance our word that's a singular means he ate that's two eight that's three who ate therefore in all the sematic languages the verb frequently identifies the number of persons involved in the action you in English can refer to one two or a million but not so in Arabic or Hebrew even the word Elohim is a plur word which is the name of God in Hebrew Heaven is shama in Genesis 1:1 we read the word shamayim which is a prer meaning Heavens did it ever occur to you why God revealed himself in this Triune manner I am the god of Abraham Isaac and Jacob in the Book of Numbers chapter 6 verse 24 and 26 the instructions are given for the ironic blessing why is it a trinitarian blessing if God is only one the Lord bless you and keep you the Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace from the Christmas story according to Dr Luke Chapter 2:13 we recognize the one Triune God again glory to God in the highest the angel s he is in the highest and on Earth peace everybody singing about that at this time of the year around the world according to Isaiah 96 one of the titles of Jesus is Prince of Peace the Angels were announcing the embodiment of Peace in Bethlehem thirdly we see the spirit of of Joy Good Will towards men the Trinity is depicted powerfully during the baptism of Jesus and immediately coming up out of the water he saw the heaven spotting and the spirit descending upon him like a dove then a voice Came From Heaven you are my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased not only at the birth of Jesus and the beginning of his public Ministry but also towards the end the Trinity is clearly demonstrated on Mount Taber a short distance from my hometown of Nazareth at the Transfiguration God's spirit is seen as a cloud and God the Father proclaims this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased he him may I ask you to explain to me dear friends the frequency of the figure three if it did not point to the trinity in these incidents the Lord Jesus performed three miracles of catching fish in Galilee he raised three people from the dead a girl a youth and an adult to show his love for all ages three times Peter denied his Lord later three times Peter declared his love for his Lord three disciples were Witnesses of his Transfiguration three years he ministered in our world he was one of three crucified on that date one because of sin one in sin and he for sin then he rose on the third day can you deny God's Proclamation are you telling me that the almight is misleading us or Worse still lying let go God be God and don't tell him what he can or cannot say be or do Jesus himself who never told a lie or sin concluded his Redemptive Ministry in this cure clear declaration found in Matthew 28 18-2 all authority is given unto me in heaven and on Earth what prophet dare say that go therefore and make disciples of all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you and lo I'm with you always even to the End of the Age millions of Christians call this the Great Commission many begin their worship services with in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit now the question before us is Jesus God let me emphasize that if Jesus was born in the same manner like you and like I am not supernaturally from a verion lived only like ordinary men died like we all do and did not rise and go to heaven then we have no case for the jury whatsoever he would be thrown out tonight as an imposture but the real question tonight is this was God Jesus if we accept the fact that God is Almighty and can do anything our dilemma becomes a parent on one hand we claim God can become anybody because he is not limited in power yet on the other hand we imply he is not all powerful when we deny him the prerogative to become a man I submit to you dear friends that man can never become God this is blasphemy but God can become man and his name is Jesus Christ Lord Savior King of kings and Lord of lords Dr Stanley Jones called the Apostle to India explained the types of religions in the world the first he said was the word made word god revealing himself primarily in a holy book the second type is the word made law God is used as primarily found in a set of rules the third is the word made flesh if humans were libraries the best way to communicate with them would be through a book if humans were constitutions and by laws they would respond best to a set of laws because we are humans God chose to make the word flesh as we read and the word became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw his glory as the glory of the only begotten Son of God while for those of you who know the story of Abraham Let me refresh your memory tonight God came to Abraham as a man 1500 years before God came into Bethlehem as a babe let us look at Genesis 18 please I read then the Lord appeared to him by the oak trees of memory as he was sitting in the tent Door In the Heat of the day listen carefully so he lifted his eyes and looked and behold three men were standing by him they just materialized and when he saw them he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the ground and said my Lord if I have found Grace in your sight do not pass on by your servant we read in verse 13 and the Lord said to Abraham why did Sarah laugh saying shall I surely be a child since I am old is anything too hard for the Lord at the appointed time I will return to you according to the time of life and Sarah shall have a son later on as Abraham intercedes for Sodom and gomorah we notice that he's speaking to him as one of the men to the Lord look at verse 22 and following then the men turned away from there and went went toward Sodom but Abraham still stood before the Lord and Abraham came near and said should you also destroy the righteous with the wicked Suppose there were 50 righteous within the city would you also destroy the place and not spare it for the 50 righteous that were in it far be it from you you to do such a thing as this to slay the righteous with the wicked so that the righteous should be as the wicked far it from you shall not the judge of all the Earth do right the last verse in Genesis 18 tells of this human appearance of the great God of the universe so the Lord went his way as soon as he had finished speaking with Abraham and Abraham returned to his place pray tell me dear friends if God Almighty did not choose to limit himself to time and place space and face then how could he ever walk away from the presence of Abraham it states so the Lord went his way what shall we say of mzc who was indeed another appearance of Jesus for this mzc Hebrews 7:1 king of Salem priest of the most high God who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the Kings and blessed him to whom also Abraham gave a tenth of all first being translated king of righteousness and then also king of Salem meaning king of peace without father without mother without genealogy having neither beginning of days nor end of life but made like the Son of God remains a priest continually Adam was a created being from the dust of the earth and we are dust too but Jesus was born by the spirit of God M that dear friends in his book what is his name takes great pains to prove that one great characteristic of a true God is he who does not eat ATU well who are you and who are our primitive Tri men to tell God what he can or cannot do say or be here in Genesis 18 we are told of three Heavenly visitors the leader addressed by Abraham as Lord and he stood by them as they ate Jesus centuries later the same friend and Lord of Abraham ate with his disciples before and after the resurrection because he chose to do so because he is God maybe your problem my dear sir is although you emphatically announce 40 times a day God is greater Allah abbar he is not big enough to perform these smashing fantastic Miracles how long I say how long are you going to keep God distant from us disinterested in us dictatorial toward us we who are made in his own image the men appeared to Abraham but two left toward Sodom and one man stayed addressed as the Lord may I sincerely systematically and strongly present you with some of the basic characteristics of God and let you discover for yourself that in all of these Jesus does clearly reveal himself to be indeed what we expect God to be God is omnipresent present everywh in the past Jesus existed and now oh Father glorify me together with yourself with the glory which I had with you before the world was John 175 well and let Mr that try to explain that away and therefore contradict himself and his own words in Birmingham in July when he told the audience I believe every word of Jesus that is written in the gospels again in John's gospel 8:56 to 58 we read your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it and was glad then the Jews said to him you're not yet 50 years old and have you seen Abraham Jesus said to them most assuredly say I say to you before Abraham was I am why I am if you read Exodus 3:3 following you will understand why then Moses said to God indeed when I come to the children of Israel and say to them the god of your fathers has sent me to you and they say to me what's his name what shall I say to them and and God said to Moses I am who I am and he said to him thus you shall say to the children of Israel I am has sent me to you what other prophecy of Micah 52 which tells of Bethlehem as the birthplace of the born King the Messiah then concludes who going forth have been from of old from the days of Eternity is this a description of a mere man or indeed of God who condescended to be a man I quote from John's gospel 17:24 concerning his existence when the world began for you loved me before the foundation of the world let's take note now the most familiar passage in John 1 1:3 in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and the word became flesh now now and the future I like to say to you to confirm this Truth Listen to the wisdom of Solomon in Proverbs 30:4 listen who has ascended to heaven or descended who has gathered the wind in his fist who has bound the waters in a garment who has established all the ends of the Earth what is his name and what is his son's name if you know where is the answer or what is the answer Jesus our lord 10 centuries later gave us the answer in John 3:13 no one has ascended to heaven but he who came down from heaven that is the son of man who is in heaven the Bible states that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today forever a title reserved only to God in the last book of the Bible we are mystified at the Revelation in 1118 I am the Alpha and the Omega the beginning and the end says the Lord who is and who was and who is to come the almighty verse 17 and 18 the same chapter and when I saw him John says I fell at his feet as dead but he laid his right hand on me saying to me do not be afraid gr I am the first and the last I am he who lives and was dead and behold I'm alive forever more amen and I have the keys of hell and of death do these incredible pronouncements prophecies and proclamations sound like this supernaturally born Jesus is just a man or truly incarnate deity God is omniscient all knowing agre number of my learned listeners tonight know the story of the Samaritan woman found in John 4 why was she convinced he was what he told her the Messiah he said to her you want this living water go bring your husband she said I don't have a husband he looked straight in the and said you spoke the truth you had five and the one you have now is not your husband she said she was terrified r back to town and what did she say come see a man who told me things that I have ever done could this be the Christ and they found he was the present some of you may remember the story of philli Philip found Nathaniel and said to him we have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote Jesus of Nazareth Jesus saw Nathaniel coming toward him and said to him behold an Israelite indeed in whom is no guile Nathaniel said to him how do you know me Jesus answered and said to him before philli called you when you were under the pig tree I saw you Nathaniel answered and said to him Rabbi you are the Son of God you are the king of Israel only God knows the unknown how did Jesus see Nathaniel when no one else but God saw him the future Jesus predicted his betrayal his crucifixion his death his resurrection in such minute details that even the disciples themselves overwhelmed could not for a while believe him he also predicted Peter's denial three times his most faithful follower he accurately described the destruction of Jerusalem which took place 37 years later and in addition to that he told of the end of the world and the conditions leading up to it which we right now tonight in London and all over the world are experiencing even in what we call the Lord's Supper Jesus predicted his death for Sinners resurrection and second coming can anyone in clear conscience intellectual honesty and in the pursuit of fairness say after these clear proofs that Jesus was anything but God in flesh even the Quran testifies that Jesus is the only person who knows the hour of judgment Matthew's gospel we are told that the wise men of the East came to Bethlehem you see God is to be worshiped listen to this when they came they asked where is he who is born King strange that they call the child King instead of the proper Title Prince at any rate we discovered in verse 11 of Matthew 2 they saw the young child with Mary his mother and fell down and worshiped him not Mary I encourage you my dear friend to recognize that wise men still worship Him the three gifts gold representing him as king frankincense representing him as God mer represent him as dying for us as Savior even demons recognized and worshiped Jesus Mark 56-7 tells us of the story but when he saw Jesus from AAR he ran and woried him and he cried out with a loud voice and said what have I to do with you son of the most high God in Luke 2041 we see several facts among them the worship offered Jesus even by his enemies Jesus is speaking and he said to them how can they say that the Christ is David son now David himself said in the Book of Psalms the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your foot stol David therefore calls him Lord how is he then his son according to the ninth chapter of John Jesus healed a young man born blind then then we read in verse 35-38 the exciting in the story Jesus heard that they had cast him out and when he had found him he said to him do you believe in the Son of God he answered and said who is he Lord that I may believe in him and Jesus said to him you have both seen him and it is he who is talking to you then he said Lord I believe and he worshiped him let me present your inquisitive minds and seeking hearts with a glimpse of who Jesus is according to Colossians 1:3 and following he has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the son of his love in whom we have Redemption through his blood the Forgiveness of sins he is the image of the invisible God the first born over all creation for by him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth visible and invisible whether Thrones or dominions or principalities or Powers all things were created through him and for him and he is before all things and in him all things consist and he is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the first born from the dead that in all things he may have the imminence God is also omnipotent all powerful who in the world has power over nature and the elements you say of course God then tell me please tell me please who was Jesus when he stilled the storm over Galilee according to Luke 8:22 and what about his walking over the water mark 6:45 add to that he's going up to heaven defying gravitation at the conclusion of his Earthly Ministry of redemption according to acts 1 4 and following Elijah was taken up in a chariot my friends a chariot of fire but Jesus went up on his own power because he could do it power over life in Matthew 2118 following we read Jesus had power to an heate now in the morning as he returned to the city he was hungry and seeing a fig tree by the road remember he was hungry because he was a man he chose to be a man he was a perfect man a perfect God and seeing a fig tree by the road he came to it and found nothing on it but leaves and said to it let no fruit grow on you ever again and immediately the Fig Tre withered away power over death The Familiar story of raising Lazarus is found in John 11 the body had been in the grave rotting 4 days yeah Jesus called him back to life Jesus also raised a 12-year-old girl in Mark 5 a teenage boy Luke 7 and do not forget what he said he declared I am the resurrection and the life John 11:25 power over Satan and his demons Luke 8:26 tells a fantastic Encounter of Jesus with the Demonic world and they sailed to the country of the gadin which is opposite Galilee when he stepped out on the Land There met him a certain man from the city who had demons for a long time and he wore no clothes nor did he live in a house but in the tombs when he saw Jesus he cried out fell down before him and with a loud voice said what have I to do with you Jesus Son of the most high God power over sickness the invitation of Jesus in unparalleled in the history of the world come unto me you who are laboring and heav aaden and I will give you rest he gave sight to the blind healing to the paralytic life to the dead he healed all manner of s of sickness Matthew 12:15 and great multitudes followed him and he heal them all power to forgive let's read the gospel from which we find the story both in Mark 2 as well as Matthew 9 you see they brought this man could not get in they lowered him from the ceiling Jesus saw him and the first thing he said your sins are forgiven son the people murmured in their hearts he knew what they were saying in the hearts and what did he say to them we are told who can forgive sins but God Alone that that was their thought and immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves he said to them why do you reason about these things in your hearts which is easier to say to the paralytic your sins are forgiven you or to say arise take up your bed and walk but that you may know that the Son of God has power on Earth to forgive sins he forgave the sinful woman he forgave the thief on the cross but never once did he ask forgiveness for himself never once he prayed to forgive his tormentors power to create the prerogative of God is recognized in Jesus when he fed the 5,000 according to Luke 9 from Five Loaves and two fishes on another occasion he fed the 4,000 in Mark 8 from few Loaves and Fishes first John 520 States Prof profly and we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we may know him who is true and we are in him who is true in his son Jesus Christ who is the true God and eternal life my dear friends we can honestly can we honestly can we honestly tonight or any time deny the revealed truth that credentials of Jesus of Nazareth are authentic and overwhelming the prophets of old predicted his coming predictions he Faithfully fulfilled in Mye details our heavenly father confirmed his relationship to him as his son his miraculous Works affirmed his power the holy spirit clarifies this truth to which the apostles and the New Testament testify powerfully let me emphasize that God is in reality Jesus man gods have been humerous throughout history but this is the first and only true God man Jesus the Christ yet we ask a very serious question why did Christ Jesus come if he were a mere Prophet the world did not need more prophets priests books or miracle workers the god of Heaven gives the answer you will call his name Jesus because he will save his people from their sins Jesus Christ himself came to save you and me from Eternal death in hell to eternal life in heaven he loves you as I love you and far more we like to say to you what he declared I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly listen to his declaration for the son of man has come to seek and to save that which was lost since God's word States all have Sinn and come short of the glory of God all of us become the object of God's concern Jesus come seeking you and me and wanting to give you and me eternal life the full payment for sin is death thus he takes that upon himself but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord a secret is revealed when we hear John the Baptist evaluation of Jesus Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world i s and be record that this is the Son of God how you ask by substitution he took our place the first Adam fought the Battle and lost but now the second Adam fought the Battle and won the tragedy of the Cross becomes the Triumph of the crucified why did the ancient Jews have blood sacrifices why even the Quran suggests and encourages that because without shedding of blood there is no remission of sin isn't it fantastic God demands good works as a result of Salvation not to obtain salvation you don't have to go to a Holy City Jerusalem vasi Mecca or Rome they are too small to contain the Majesty of God ceremonial cleansing can wash the stain but never a Heart full of sin God is not impressed with our fastings or prayers these promote self-righteousness God loves you and wants to save you and me by his grace through faith in Jesus Christ Our Lord for God so of the world that he gave his only begotten son that anyone believing in him should not perish but have everlasting life amen thank you very much we are grateful to Mr shos for his 49 minutes and 15 seconds some impeccable timing if you want to take a deep breath for a moment or two there's a privilege and one that I did not expect to have and one that I'm delighted to have uh to Welcome to the Royal Albert Hall tonight and to listen for the next 50 minutes uh to the initial presid presentation from Mr Ahmed didat thank you [Applause] sir I would like to you go go I love you brother I love you I love you I love you we love you we love you thank [Music] you Mr chairman respected speaker and my dear brothers and sisters the subject is Jesus God can very easily be solved by asking a counter question did Jesus claim to be God did he say I am God did he say worship me and believe me Mr chairman ladies and gentlemen there is not a single unequivocal statement in any of the 66 books of the Bible or the 73 of 73 of the Roman Catholics where Jesus says I'm God or where he says worship me there isn't I would have been very happy to hear Jesus the from the lips of Jesus this simple straightforward explicit statement I am God I worship you because I as a Muslim and we Muslims as a whole we believe that Jesus Christ was one of the mightiest messengers of God we believe in his miraculous birth we believe that he was the Messiah and we believe that he gave life to the dead by God's permission and he healed those born blind and the lepers by God's permission this is really the only point of real difference between the Muslim and the Christian is the Divinity of Christ and for that I say that our brother has not uced a single statement from the lips of Jesus saying I am God overi me while he walked this Earth he never made such a statement of course our brother has a chance my brother shos of coming back and perhaps he might be able to point out to me in case he had overlooked it the nearest he came to that was a quotation from The Book of Revelation where it is supposed to be the words of Jesus where he says I am Alpha and Omega meaning I'm the first and the last now This Book of Revelation was a dream was a dream in which John in the dream he saw a vision in which he saw animals with eyes inside and eyes outside and horns with eyes on it all this is a man if he eats too too much he gets that type of experiences but while Jesus walked this Earth we will analyze what he actually said and what he did now the idea of the Holy Trinity in which the Christian the bulk of Christian including the Anglican Church the Roman C Catholics the Presbyterians the lutherans the Methodist almost as a whole they believe in this thing call the Holy Trinity in the Christian catechism of the churches they say I'm quoting that the father is God the son is God and the Holy Ghost is God but they are not three Gods but one God it says the father is Almighty the son is Almighty and the Holy Ghost is Almighty but there are not three almight is but one Almighty it it continues I'm quoting the category say the father is a person the son is a person and the Holy Ghost is a person but they are not three person but one person I'm asking what language is that is that English it sounds English but this is not English person person person but not three person but one person I said what language is that what is a person in your language you English people tell me you Americanized English man tell me me what is a person in your language if you and your two other brothers are identical triplets we can't make out the difference between the three of you you are all identical if one of you commit murder I'm asking can we hang the other you say no I said why not you all look alike so he tells me no he's a different person what makes him a different person it is his personality if the personality is different he's different and when you say the Christian says in the name of the father and the Son and the Holy Ghost I say you have three distinct mental pictures in your mind when you say father you know think of the son when you say the son you know of the Holy Ghost are you there are and these three pictures you can never superimpose and create one there'll ever be three in your mind unless the mind is diseased you say these three I see as one the three will ever remain free now as far as the Muslim is concerned believing that any human being any human being is God or is equating with God it is an act of prision against God whether it's a Hindu idea of a God incarnate or whether it is a Christian idea of God incarnate God becoming a man the Holy Quran says said whosoever says that Jesus Christ the son of Mary is God they're making kuur it's an act of blasphemy this is treason against God but Christ said is who children of Israel worship Allah who is my Lord and your lord whoever will associate anyone with Allah Allah will make for them heaven will be forbidden for them and the fire of Hell will be that dwelling place and for the wrong doers there be no one to hell and Jesus Christ he is speaking about the Father in heaven he's your father and my father again and again in the gospel of St Matthews if you start taking stop from chapter 1 verse one you will come across this phrase your father thy father your father thy father 13 times before the first time he says my father it's an amazing situation that 13 times the man is telling you that God Almighty he is the father of everybody metaphorically he is the creator sustainer olver cherisher of everybody he's the father of everybody but physically he does not be because beting is an animal act it belongs to the lower animal functions of sex and we were not to attribute such a quality to God that God begot a son though the Christians keep on repeating the words Son of God Son of God Son of God so he said what about Adam he said how many sons has they got the bulk of Christian will tell you one I said you're not reading your Bible you don't read your Bible properly you know God has got Sons by their Tong in the Bible by the tong you know tons the old measurement of weing things tons Genesis 6:3 it says and the sons of gods saw the daughters of men that they were fa and they took them to wife all that they chose and when the sons of God came in the Daughters of men and B children to them they became Great Men of old old men of renown in the book of Exodus God says Israel is my son even my firstborn in the book of Jeremiah says Ephraim is my son even my firstborn in the New Testament we are told as many as are led by the spirit of God are the sons of God every Tom Deon Harry if you follow the will and plan of God you are a Godly person in the language of the Jew in the idiom of the Jew he says Son of God meaning a righteous person but the Christian said no no no no no no Jesus is not like that he's begotten not made so I'm asking please explain to me I'm asking the English speaking people please explain to me what are you trying to emphasize when you tell me he is begotten not made what are you really trying to tell me and believe me no Christian in 40 years has been able to open his mouth to tell me what it means it had to be an American not brother shos it had to be an American he said it means s by God I said what he said no no no you ask me what it means I'm only telling you what it means not that I believe that God side a son so this is Jesus Christ I this to the Muslim is a blasphemy to say that Jesus is God but there is another blasphemy from the Christian point of view you see the Christian the Orthodox Christians the the Anglican Christians the methodists and all the Roman Catholics they all believe in the Holy Trinity and they say that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity you'll never hear the words is in the name of the father and the Son and the Holy Ghost you'll never hear in the name of the Holy Ghost and the Son and the father never you'll never hear in the name of the Son and the Holy Ghost and the father it must ever be in the name of the father and the Son and the Holy Ghost he's always the second person of the Trinity if anybody in Christian them says that Jesus is the father it is a heresy in the Christian church from the Muslim point of view attributing Divinity to any created being is blasphemy kufer but from the Christian point of view from the church's point of view Anglican Methodist Lutheran and all if anybody says has the idity to say that Jesus is the father it is an ancient heresy which was condemned and EXT EXT extra by the Roman Catholic Church over a thousand years ago they got rid of it where you say and our brother shro my brother shos I don't know why he hit that fact that he actually believes that Jesus is the father in his book The liberated Christian in case he has forgotten it he might not have brought it along I brought it along with me the liberated Christian Palestinian H the liberated Palestinian I beg your pardon with the Star of David in the background I don't know liberated from the Jews or liberated from what liberated Christian he says I'm quoting from page 80 the most loving heavenly father I thank you for the Miracles you have done in my life the greatest miracle miracle of all was that you love me enough to die for me who the father died for him and this is in church history as master of divinity brother sh will be able to confirm is an ancient heresy which is called patri pianism or monarchianism or sanism you don't have to worry about this two yard long terms but this is in church history it had been extrait some thousand years ago but it is he is the father but Jesus contradicts this statement he says call no man your father on Earth for there is only one who is your father which are in heaven Matthew 23:9 and Jesus is a man on Earth walking this Earth which Peter testifies in the book of Acts 2:22 he says ye men of Israel hear these words Jesus of Nazareth amen approv of God among you amen by Miracles and wonders and signs which God did by him he didn't do it God did by him he was using Jesus God Almighty was using Jesus which God did by him in the midst of you which you yourself also know so he is not the father he says to the Jews ye have neither heard his voice the voice of God at any time you have not heard the voice of God anytime nor seen his shape or form at any time the Jews were seeing Jesus and they're listening to him they didn't hearken to the message but they were listening to him they were not deaf all the Jews they were reacting to his message they were listening they were hearing and they were seeing and they wanted to Stone him and he used to get out of the way he used to run away he used to hide they were seeing his form and he used to disappear not Into Thin Air but hiding away running away according to the Bible so he could not be the father and he could not be that God the Bible gives us a test what what God is not what God is not like in Islam in the Quran also we are given what God is Not that God is not like anything you can think or imagine anything you think or imagine is not him we are given some 99 attributes of God that he's kind he's merciful he's just he's holy and on and on 99 but there are certain things that he's not this he's not that he's not that the Bible also gives us what God is not it says in the Book of Job 25: 4-6 said how then can man be Justified with God how can you compare any human being with God how can he be clean that is born of a woman anyone that is born of a woman is not good enough to be compared with God anyone whether it's a Moses or a Jesus or A Muhammad whether it's a rama or a kishna or a Buddha anyone that a woman carries for 9 months can never be your God that's the Bible says when even the Moon is not bright and the stars are impure in his sight in the sight of God what is all this this moon the stars what is it nothing how much less is man you see the Christians are thinking that look Jesus is born of a woman no doubt but he was born miraculously which we agree so that makes him something Supernatural because he he was born miraculously so God Almighty in this book the Christian Bible he says how much less is man if the sun and the moon and the stars are nothing in his sight what is man you and I what are you what are we how much less is man who is but a maggot you know what's a maggot you people living in concrete jungles you don't know what maggot is you know maggot I won't disg you better look at the dictionary Oxford dictionary tell you maggot those worms you know that goes on Manor human dun maggots you and I according to this book of God you are nothing more than a maggot and the son of man who Jesus Christ explicit statement in case you have something at the back of your mind that Jesus is an exception God Almighty goes out of his way to tell you look this Jesus of mine is no exception and the son of man ask any Christian who is the son of man 83 times in the New Testament Jesus Christ is described as the son of man son of man son of man is the foxes of holes and the birds of the air have Nest but the son of man hasn't got a place to rest his head and the son of man sign of Jonah for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the earth so shall the son of man 83 times 13 times his address as the Son of God 13 times but 83 times 70 more times son of man son of man son of man and ask any Christian Missionary who is the son of man is a [Music] Jesus so God always and the son of man who is only a worm worm he's a worm we are maggots a worse degree than a worm he is a woman in other words don't make a mistake anyone that is born of a woman and the Bible tells us in the gospel of St Luke 2: 211 when he was 8 days old he was circumcised God getting [Applause] circumcised please please we must heed the advice given at the beginning that there should be no clapping for this at the end of a talk if you give an Applause accepted for both parties please thank you when he was 8 days old he he was circumcised and named Jesus by the angel when he was in his mother's womb who was in his mother's womb Jesus how did he come out from there like you and me who God I'm asking if you were a nurse you can imagine any situation if you were a nurse 2,000 years ago in this table helping Mary when she's delivering the child can you for one moment think that that helpless little creature with all the filth and the muck your God you're Jehovah you're Allah no the human mind it repels the idea that this puny little creature which made his mother impure for 40 days that's why the Bible says she had to be purified after 40 days what made her impure the birth of a holy God making her impure no is a human child like you and me it made Mary impure for 40 days says she carried him for 9 months mons the anglicans in England today they are a little more reasonable than the Evangelist there was a shock survey of Anglican Bishops in June last year here in in the UK and more than half of England's Bishops say Christians are not obliged to believe that Jesus Christ was God no more you don't have to believe if your salvation and mine depended upon that because your salvation if you are a Christian the Christian believe that Jesus must die as a God because one man can't carry the sins of the world if he died on the cross we say they didn't kill him and they didn't crucify we prove the point in July here we will not go into that but the Christian must believe that Jesus must die as a god God and not as a man because one man can't carry the sins of the world so God died you're asking you believe that God died you say he's eternally mortal and he died so once he dies what happens to his creation you know the power power where it's coming from this power that's coming into this Hall here then sub station or the head station if they switch it off there what can you do with all your switches finish you gone it's you in darkness if God Almighty if his light is extinguished who runs this universe who kept it going for 3 days and three nights he was away in the Tomb as the Christians the dead for 3 days and three nights for 3 days and three nights who was controlling the universe who no no I say Jesus Christ never claimed at any time I am God or wish ship me on the contrary he said my father is greater than I he said my father is greater than all John 20: 29 he said I can of my own self do nothing John 5:30 he said I can do nothing God can do everything anything ah except brother shos was saying that God can become a man he can do anything I said no he can't do anything am I limiting God I says no I'm telling you and I challenge people to prove to me that God Almighty he can create another God he is uncreated he can create another uncreated he is eternal from the beginning which has no beginning now he can create another equal to him him where how as soon as he creates somebody he's created that means he can create an uncreated look this is common sense he can't create another God can he make another father there'll be two fathers then he can make a dozen fathers can't he so my Hindu cousins are more consistent they believe in millions of God anything is God everything is God he's more consistent he's more reasonable why are you so unreasonable you only make one exception why shouldn't we have more Gods more Sons physical Sons no he says Ah and further he can't throw me out of his kingdom this is God Almighty can he throw you out of his kingdom out of his Dominion is there a place outside his Dominion where he can throw you out can he he can't can you imagine him throwing you out where where where can he throw you out H he can obliterate you yes he can finish you up yes but he can't throw you out of his Dominion out of his rule he can't now that doesn't mean he's limited this is how powerful he is his Dominion extends over the heavens and the Earth everywhere whatever you can think or imagine and Beyond so where can he throw [Music] you see God Almighty does he can do anything but what he does Godly things God must do Godly things he doesn't do monkey tricks look I don't expect brother sh to do monkey tricks nor do you expect me to do monkey tricks here do you a man comes so many thousand miles away from Africa another brother comes so many thousand miles from America to do monkey tricks here what do you expect us to do if somebody told you that you know D and Sh having the dance in front of the stage would you believe it people believe you so we don't expect these people this Godly people to come along and do you know Jing here no God Almighty he does Godly things he doesn't do ungodly things he says further Jesus he said I with the Finger of God cast out Devils Luke 11:20 he says I cast out Devils by the spirit of God Matthew 12:28 he says the power the power we talking about he had power to do this and power to he had power to forgive sins we did you get it ask him he says all power is given unto me it's not mine it's given to me by who by the Father in Heaven God Almighty gave him the power a general power of attorney what do you want I give it to you and he gave him that power to heal the blind the lepers and Quicken the dead and kill those 2,000 pigs according to the Bible and drying up the Fig Tree from his very roots and stealing the storm who where did he get the power from from God so glory to God and somebody rightly remarked in the New Testament when he performed a miracle he said glory to God for giving such Powers unto men this is it Glory goes to God for giving such Powers unto men not to the man to God Jesus says my brother says in the Quran it said that he knew he know knows the time of the coming of the hour of judgment I think he has misread the Quran the Quran is here he can check it up I would like to see where he says he knows or God says he knows the Bible contradicts that the Holy Bible it says but of that day and that hour knoweth no man no not the angels nor neither the son but the Father in heaven in other words in my knowledge I'm not like God in my power I'm not like God Mark 13 verse 32 the big question remains where does he say I'm God or where he says worship me or where does he say that I and God Almighty are one and the same thing is there a single Christian who can give me a verse that me and God Almighty are one and the same thing is the a Christian in this vast audience who can give me John 14 no what does it say John 14 what does he say that I am I am the father of right yes John no I the reference is incorrect 146 no the reference is not 146 the reference is is the quotation is right I and my father are one the quotation is correct but it is John 10:3 please please silence please the reference is John 10:30 now you know if I ask you will have the chance to ask questions my dear brothers please sit down let me would you please sit down I'm sorry we're going to take questions later we're not having interruptions now please would you sit down now thank you I'm sorry Mr do that STS I'm silence please I am I am reading from my head and my brother brother shos just confirmed it that it is John 10:3 now the context you see in 40 years for 40 years I have been talking to people and when this verse is quoted that Jesus said I and my father are one the verse is there in the Bible you can't contradict that I'm asking what is the context and believe me in 40 years I have not come across a single learned man of christiandom a single man in 40 years who could give me the context yeah you can open the book yes by opening the book but no man in my life 40 years now no Christian with the name could give me the context you you have to open the book without opening the book you'll never be able to give the context now let me give you the context you see the context is verse starting from vers 23 it says Jesus walked in Solomon's porch in the temple of Jerusalem then came the Jews round about him means they surrounded him and said how long does that make us to doubt if thou be the Christ tell us plainly they're alleging that he's talking Ambiguously he's not putting forth his claim clear enough that's a charge a false charge because we know he didn't speak Ambiguously he put forth his claim that he is the Christ he's the Messiah but the Jews want to pick up a fight they didn't like his preaching him calling them you generation of wipers you Whited seers you Wicked and adulterous generation you fools you snakes would you like to hear people addressing you like that and the Jews were not a people to forget in a hurry so they find the man alone they surround him brandishing finger in his face come on tell us why don't you tell us they want to pick up a fight with him so they can can work themselves into a frenzy and give him a good bashing get their own back so Jesus says I told you and you believe not the works that I do in my father's name they bear witness of me my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me and I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish said My Father which gave them me is greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out of my father's hand 28 verse 28 verse 29 neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand verse 30 I and my father are one in this to see that once the man has accepted Faith he remains in faith I as the teacher SE to see to that as well as God Almighty sees to that in purpose we are one but the Jews were looking for trouble and if you're looking for trouble you you don't have to go very far you get it around the corner so they picked up stones again to Stone him so Jesus says many good works have I showed you from my father for which of those Works do you Stone me so they say for a good work we Stone thee not but for blasphemy KU because that thou being a man makes th a God you are a man you're claiming to be God there's another false charge first false charge was that he was talking Ambiguously now another false charge that you're claiming to be God that's the Jews alleged the Christian agree with the Jews they said he did make such a claim but he was entitled to it let us hear what Jesus says the Jews say he blasphemed the Christians say he did but it is no blasphemy because he was entitled to what does Jesus say he says is it not written in your law verse 31 is it verse 32 is it not written in your law law means the Torah I said ye are Gods ye you are Gods if he God Almighty call them gods unto whom the word of God came mean the prophets are called gods in every language man the prophets God Almighty speaks to Moses and he says behold I have made you a God to pharaoh and Aon thy brother shall be thy prophet in the Book of Psalms 82nd Psalm verse 6 it says ye are gods and all of you are the children of the most high that's the genius of the Jewish language that when a person is called God he is not God like in two Corinthians 4:4 the Bible says and the devil is the God of this world is he God the devil Shan no this is your language it means he's in control so you say he's God Moses is God to pharaoh and you Jews are all gods that is the genius of the Jewish language now you can't say confer Divinity on that said is it not written in your law I said ye gods if he called them gods and and the scripture cannot be broken means you can't contradict me say of him whom the father had Sanctified and sent into the world that the Blasphemous because I said I'm the Son of God which is nothing man God has got Sons by the tong in our community in our language why are you trying to find fault with me when I'm only saying I'm the Son of God when others are called Gods the verse statement brother sh referred to from my book what is his name I took the trouble to give him all my books all the ammunition I have I sent it to he asked for it I sent everything all that I had written everything all the facts are given in black and white I said now you can work from this it's easier to answer once you have it in black and white before you you know my arguments beforehand I was not afraid because I know none of these arguments can really be intellectually can be contradicted listen God Almighty says in the Quran now another test is given most certainly Messiah Jesus the son of Mary is no more than an apostle many were the messengers that passed away before him and his mother was a virtuous woman a saintly woman and they both at food so what's exceptional about that we all eat food don't we no this is in reference to the idea that they are gods or Supernatural the Roman Catholics called Mary the Mother of God Mary is the mother of God Jesus is the son of God and as God as our brother shos as well as many Christians believe that he's God in human form he's God incarnate so if there are such godly people and they both at food so if they at food that means they had a call of nature if you eat you must look for the toilet sooner or later or look for the bush or the rocks it can't be helped God Almighty doesn't tell you in those words but listen to what he says say see how we make our signs clear to you that they both had food the implications of eating food see how we make our signs clear to you have another look look have another look how they have deviated From the Path gone away from the true path attributing to God and animal nature that he's like a man we Are Made In His Image what image this image this is the monkey image we are all glorified monkeys some look like chimpan is some like baboon some like something else you know gorillas all of us we are all glorified monkeys is that the image God is talking about and the Christian says yes Christian says yes I said God said in the Book of Genesis quoted by Dr shos he said and God said let there be light I said did he say that with his mouth he said yes did he utter the words he said yes so God has got a mouth he said yes so if he's got a mouth he must have teeth as well teeth teeth can you imagine a toothless God a god with a teeth can you imagine a god like that so said no he must have teeth yes he's got teeth then he's got a tongue he said he's got a tongue then he must have a larynx and the lungs is it yes then he's going to talk talk talk The Light sun moon stars millions of creation he's talking talking talking talking his mouth goes dry so he must need liquid to lubricate if this type of mouth he has he must need some lubrication no he said yes so once that lubrication goes in there must be a outlet as well no can you imagine what are you bringing God down to an anthropomorphic conception God is like a man then talking about plural God said this is Elohim the first chapter of Genesis chapter verse three Elohim in Hebrew Elohim the god I said you know Elohim is a plural yes my Arab brother says yes plural there are two types of plurals in Hebrew and Arabic which he confirmed and dual as well singular plural and dual singular dual and plural yes Arabic as well as Hebrew but IM in every Bible there are 100 different version the word is Elohim Gods I haven't seen a single Bible yet which say Gods said let there be light it should be Gods Not God is Elohim says what is his IM ask the Jew ask the Arab but if it doesn't suit us we ignore him is a plural of respect in Hebrew in Arabic we have two types of plurals same like Hebrew when Allah says in the Quran it is we who have sent down the Revelation and it is for us to protect it ask any Muslim the most simplest of us how many gods are there he says one then who is this as who is this we ask the Arab no Arab in 1,400 years has pointed a finger at the Muslims telling them that you are worshiping more than one God when the Quran says say is Allah the one and only then no Arab questions the Muslim to say look who is this we who is this as why don't you ask us why don't you ask your Arab Brethren who is this we who are this us it says don't you know you speak Arabic Arabic is your language you know we have two types of plurals plural of numbers and plural of respect this is plural of respect in our language, 1400 years no Arab question as I would like Dr shos to question me you say look there are supposed to be more than one God in the Quran I'd like to hear that from him I said these are two types of plurals plural of respect plural of numbers this is Hebrew this is Arabic so Jesus act Jesus at and his mother at and the Bible says the son of man came came son of man again son of man Jesus came eating and drinking and they say Behold a man glonous and a wine bber this Jesus words of Jesus that this is what the people are saying that you are a gluttonous eater and a wine bibber Matthew 11: 19 and Luke 7:34 what then makes him God his birth he was born without a human father so he must have a father so his father is G the Quran answers that very simply the similitude of the example of Jesus in the sight of God is like that of Adam he created him from dust and he said be and he was so if Jesus is God and the veritable Son of God because he had no earthly father then Adam is a greater God because he had no father and no mother simple basic Common Sense do you stand stand to reason if Jesus had no father that makes him God then Adam is a greater God no father no mother but ah he said you see Adam was created from dust and Jesus was born to a virgin uhhuh so my brother he already quoted Mel yes Mel the high priest of Salam Hebrews chapter 7 verses 1 and 3 it says for this Mel in the Bible in your Bible open it Hebrews 7: 1 and 3 for This MC king of Salam Salam Islam Salam priest of the most high God priest without father without mother without descent having neither beginning of days nor end of life who is that is God the only one who is without beginning and end is god without father and mother is God who lives eternally is God but he was a high priest and Abraham was giving tights taxes taxes religious taxes he was giving to this man M no father no mother Jesus had a mother no father so m is greater than him Jesus had a beginning in the stable and he had an apparent end this man No Beginning No End who is greater who is greater M I said why don't you worship him he deserves to be worshiped as God Almighty if at all this high priest of Salam Salam no I stand to reason this man Jesus he cries to God supposed to be on the cross Matthew 27:46 he says which means my God my God why has Thou forsaken me who is he crying to himself putting up an act dramatizing himself that he's dying now oh my God my God why you let me down if he is God how can he let himself down and again in mark 15:34 saying who who is he crying to he's crying to Allah El Allah Allah look I'm asking the Jehovah's Witnesses they have them among the Christians you know they go and harass people Jehovah's Witnesses I'm asking them when Jesus said I'm asking does that sound to you like jeah he says no he says no so I said listen again does that sound to you like ab ab means father in Hebrew no listen Allah Allah Arabic sound similar yes then in the Book of Revelation chapter 19 you read about John the disciple he saw a vision and in the vision he heard the angels in heaven singing Allelujah Allelujah Allelujah Allelujah and when the Christian goes into ecstasy in my country they shout hallelujah hallelujah I'm ask what is Allelujah no no what is Allelujah yah is a vocative and exclamation in Arabic and [Music] Hebrew we begin with an exclamation say oh my brother y oh my mother Ya Allah oh Allah the westner he ends with an exclamation He says stop s stop exclamation mark a fire F fire exclamation mark That's the Western that's his system The Genius of his language soah is oh Allah you are the only being who deserves worship and praise oh Allah he is Allah he is Allah besides whom there is no other God Al Malik the king Al the Holy One Assam the source of peace and Perfection he is God not a child born in the stable to a Jewish girl what makes him God I somebody tell me say look this what makes his birth as his Des his miracles he gave life back to Lazarus we are told did he no he says when before calling Lazarus out you know he says oh my father he looks up towards heaven he says my father oh my father I know that thou has heard me and I know that thou hearest me always always whatever I'm asking you're giving it to me you are doing the works and I know that th hears me always but because of the people that stood by the superstitious credulous people they are going to say that I gave life to the dead they will say that I am God for that reason I'm speaking to you loudly prior to that he was groaning in the spirit groaning Jesus wept groaning what groaning no he was pouring out his heart to God my friend Lazarus is dead oh my Lord bring him back from the dead and God Almighty assim go ahead and ask what you want and you get it now he's going to call Lazarus out so he said oh my father I know that thou has heard me and I know that thou hears me always but because of the people that stood by I said it loudly audibly that they may believe that thou has sent me and he says he that is sent is not greater than the one that sent him I can of my own self do nothing the word you hear are not mine but the father that sent me he had given me a commandment what I should say and what I should speak even even as the father had said unto me so I speak there is not a single unequivocal statement in any version of the Bible where Jesus says I'm God or where he says worship me there is not a single explicit statement an equivocal statement a plain simple statement there isn't if there is we Muslims would have no hesitation in accepting it simply because we know that Jesus Christ as one of the mightiest messengers of God he would never lie the questions being asked either he was a liar you know generally the Christians he must be a liar or a lunatic or God why should you make such propositions why can not the man be a mighty messenger of God why should he be a liar or a lunatic again and again in Christian literature evangelist they say either he's a liar or an imposter is the oppos opposite of liar impostor what is it God is the opposite of God God imposter is the opposite of God lunatic no what is the anonym for God is there how can you say this or that this or that why can't he be what he claims to be that he is a messenger of God and as such follow him he say he is not of me who does not take his cross and follow me take up your cross and follow me if you follow me you will get eternal life listen to him you hearken to him what he says what he teaches and that is salvation if you don't do that verily verily I say unto you accept your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees he shall by no means enter the Kingdom of Heaven there's no heaven for you unless you are better than the Jew and you can't be better than the Jew by not keeping the laws and the Commandments listen to him follow him and if you follow him you can't help being a Muslim [Music] [Applause] thank you very much Mr V now what we're going to do at this point in time is for those and I realize what a terrible trial it is of of patience just a hold back when you you really want to get behind one speaker or another but I do want to thank you for that patience and for making this debate a debate not a confrontation what we'd like to offer you the chance of doing now is to have your own part in this now it is impossible to offer to 5 and a half th000 people the right to participate in a debate by uh leaving your seat in any form so what we're going to suggest is this I'm going to be asking the two speakers in just a moment to speak for a maximum of 8 minutes each in rebuttal of each other's position we are then going to take questions and if there is a question you would like to ask if you could phrase it as courteously as possible and if you would write your question on a piece of paper and pass it to your left until it reaches the aisle and if you are at the last seat right next to the aisle you'll collect the questions that come from your row hold them in your hand and stewards when people have had a chance to do to do that will you walk down the aisle and collect the questions then stewards you are to bring those questions down to the rear behind me here right down to the rear uh where you will be met by a box or by someone holding a box who will collect the questions they will then be brought in here and drawn impartially we'll shuffle them up and uh if you're fortunate enough to have your question then that will be asked we're going to ask you to do that in just one moment we're going to also say this please do not try to leave your seat or come forward if you want to have a quiet wriggle now is your opportunity to do it in about 15 seconds I'm going to ask Dr shirro to begin his reply so a moment or two of Silence you can start writing your questions please don't leave your seat just pass them to your left have a good wle get rid of any of the cramps or problems that way now may I ask you for [Music] silence right can we have complete quiet grateful for your courtesy and for your appreciation and respect of Dr chiros going to ask him if he would come and make his reply please to what Mr didat has said thank [Applause] [Music] you what a delightful Bunch you are and what a joy it is to stand before you and make replies to my friend Mr concerning the statement about Jesus saying he was God I first call your attention to John 13313 you call me teacher and Lord and rightly so for that is what I am remember please if the Queen of England walks in here she does does not have to tell you she is the queen Jesus did not have to tell you every time he did something he was God when he answered Philip he said you say show us the father and it's sufficient I have been with you so long and you don't know he who has seen me has seen the father our brother quoted another verse which has the same idea as to our brother's remarks about The Book of Revelation did not the prophet and the prophets have also dreams did not God reveal himself to them in dreams and Visions he speaks through visions and dreams and it does not come because your stomach is full or empty but God chooses to do though and if he chooses to do so it is so I also like to remind you of something else as far as the Trinity is concerned I think the problem with our Muslim friends is that they don't realize we are just as much against the Trinity of the days of the Arab worlds coming into historical position as they are you see there was a group of Heretics who from paganism came to Christianity and they thought of Mary as the Queen of Heaven God married her and Jesus was born for God's sake get this through your mind Jesus was not the Son of God as a man who was born through a sexual experience it is a spiritual title he came because he loves you stop be patient to the end place the maram US therefore are just as wrong as others are wrong our faith in the Trinity is in god father Son and Holy Spirit doesn't it Amaze you that in the 99 excellent names of God in the Quran not one is love not one is father and we are not given the idea that God is a dictator and we are to be his slaves but God is a father who wants you and me and the whole world to be his sons please please please would you hold on to clapping Don't Clap please don't disturb us how did miam conceive of the Holy Spirit who is the Holy Spirit an angel called Gabriel let me challenge you 75% of the wonderful Quran in my wonderful language of Arabic is from the Bible and I would urge you to look into the Bible and find out where these sources are and the blessing of knowing this God who loves you and me and much like ants trying to go from this point to the other and cannot you come by and you say wait a minute let me show them the right way for there's a way that seems right unto man but the way ends in destruction so you say I will help them you try to show them the way you push the nose of this one and the tail of the other but they keep going back to their old way so you say I think the only way is either I become an ant or they become human now bear in mind that they cannot become human because they don't have the power and suppose you have the power to become an ant now tell me when you become an ant can you show them the better way can you show them the right way and I answer you by saying not on your life because once you become a man as a man you become an ant and once you become an ant you end up being just like the ants therefore Jesus God in human flesh came and he kept the man he is man he ate as a man he slept as a man he was tired as a man but he also use the title the son of man to identify himself with you and me for you answer this question for me how in the world are you going to pay for your sins how in the world you going to be justified our brother quoted job and he misquoted the word the word says very clearly how can a man be justified that means made right in the sight of God and nobody can become right in the sight of God without Redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ the son of God who who said I have come that you may have life the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses you from every sin please remember that when the angel announced the Holy One to Mary that will be born of you will be called them son listen of the most high God are you telling me the angel was lying the Lord was making a mistake he loves mysty that he loves you and he pleased leads with you tonight and says come unto me and I will give you rest come unto me all the ends of the Earth and be saved because salvation is not for the Muslims or the Jews or the others it's for all of us God loves us he became a son and as son became man so we as men can become the sons of God because he cares as for the statement my father his self-imposed limitation caused him to say that and I like to say to you when he said I and the father are one he demonstrated that so evidently and remember please God of God and whether the Anglican Bishops agree or not let God be true and every man a liar they need to repent of their ways and Trust The Living Word of God and experience Revival across this nation and stop wickedness vness and turn away from the ways to follow the Lord for he must rain till he hath put all enemies under his [Applause] feet [Music] [Applause] I invite you one and all to discover the truth which is God in Christ wants to reconcile the world unto himself for a true Muslim will become a true Muslim and a true Christian can become true Christian when he accepts the gift of God Jesus Christ the son of the Living God please please remember as far as the wonderful truth of God the term he asked is the word begotten I conclude with a reminder monogan Paras is the term as the Greek which is the only son of God of this kind in other words he he is the only one of God who came to demonstrate the love of God and no one else thank you for the joy of being with you may the love of God bring us to him who is eternal love Eternal God and in Christ says come I will give you rest thank you thank you very [Music] much thank you and now Mr D quiet please thank you very much now Mr datat will make his reply as well thank you [Applause] sir beginning with John 15:3 as quoted by my brother shos where Jesus is answering Phillip he says if you have seen me you have seen the Father which by reasoning the Christian thinks that Jesus is the father but if we look at it in its context again there are a series of misunderstandings from the very word go chapter 14 begin begins with that misunderstanding and the misunderstanding of the disciple continues chapter 14 it says Jesus is telling his disciples and whether I go you know and the way you know you know where I'm going and you know how to get there so the disciples say master we know not whether thou goest and how can we know the way they misunderstood Jesus was speaking about spiritual journey they are thinking of geographical locations like dundi Newcastle where Southampton he's talking about God and going to God so Jesus says I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh unto the father but by me this was too heavy for them they couldn't follow what he's talking about so he says Lord show us the the father and it suffice at us it will be enough just show us God we want to see God with our bodily eyes and that will be our satisfaction enough in answer to that Jesus says Phillip you have been with me for so long you are a Jew as a Jew you ought to know better than that that no man can see God and live God is not seen at any time and you being with me for 3 years you still haven't understood my mission you want to see God with your physical eyes when you can't even look at the sun if you have seen me you have seen the father meaning if you understood me you would understand what God is and this is the language is speaking ever and and on he says seeing they see not hearing they hear not neither do they understand this seeing is not physical seeing if you understood what I am you would have understood what God is you wouldn't make such a silly request he is not claiming to be the father I would like to know who has heard this verse for there are three that bear record in heaven the Father the word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one have you heard that before have you heard that do you read this in your Bible do you yes sir yes yes no my brother says he does read it you know you don't read it in the Bible it's not there it is there yes and amazing that yes yes for there are three I'm quoting first Epistle of John 5:7 where it says first Epistle of John 5: 7 where it says for there are three that bear record in heaven the Father the word meaning Jesus and the Holy Ghost and these three are one it's there in your Bible [Applause] sir here is the Holy Bible you see this verse I quoted you now is to be found in the Roman Catholic version of the Bible it is to be found in the authorized King James version of the Bible is there but it has now been thrown out of the revised Standard Version of the Bible as a fabrication the ver in the [Applause] trinity [Applause] it is thrown out it is thrown out as a fabrication all modern translations the Bible do not have that verse anymore this is thrown out by not by Muslim Scholars Jewish Scholars or Hindu Scholars by 32 Scholars of the highest Eminence backed by 50 cooperating denominations they found that this was a fabrication and as a fabrication they threw it out similarly similarly similarly the Ascension in the gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John you find Ascension twice that Jesus ascended into heaven chapter 16 verse 19 and Jesus was taken up into heaven Luke 24:51 and Jesus was taken up into heaven only two places in the gospels is the Ascension mention my brother quoted from The Acts the gospels Matthew Mark Luke and John the word the Ascension is mentioned only in two places and those two places also in the all revised Standard Version of the Bible they have also been thrown out as Fabrications yeah revised Standard Version of the Bible the the the the fact that you know the word father does not occur in the Holy Quran is is made a point of you know we are given 99 attributes of God Almighty but father is not one of them and father in Arabic is easier than the word r you see AB in Arabic means father we read again and again the Quran alhamdulillah Lord cherisher sustainer evolver rub not AB why not because of this misconception there are millions of people on Earth who are taking this thing physically that this Father in Heaven begot a son and begetting is an animal act it belongs to the lower animal functions of sex so this word is ested is taken out never used simply because there are people like my brother's son his brother minut his son in the book he quotes his son Salam Salam in the book and Salam says that you know after my brother shos came out of the bath and pulled the plug and the water went out he said now he knows how rain comes about said how he says you see when Jesus has a bath in heaven and when he pulls the plug you know all the water comes out and we have thunderstorms here and for that the young man was given a hug and kiss you see now that concept carries on you are having an idea that God Almighty also is there somewhere in the heavens doing something similar so because of these anthropomorphic Concepts which have been conveyed in Islam all these attributes where you might have some types of sicknesses creeping in as such words these are not befitting the Majesty of God that God begets a son or he's the Father in Heaven the loving father which goes and kills his own son for the sins of mankind he can't Rectify you your mistakes you commit sin and he kills his own son I'm asking is that love somebody steals you know murders your wife your child rapes your daughter and now you can do nothing you're utterly helpless so what you do you going to kill your own son and you call that love you said now this is the wrong concept of justice and ethics you see if you have the right concept your behavior will come right there was a time in America 60% of the people they spoke against pre pre premarital sex but since 1975 you read brother shro know in his book you must buy this book The liberated Palestinian he says he's walking with girl on each arm and a sudden Bella sh please a Souther Bella Bella means a beautiful woman invites shos to her house for a weekend can and he goes with her to her house for a weekend this is the Bible this is the book finish uh for the weekend and the father of the girl is waiting with a gun when he reaches up to the porch is waiting with a gun and doctor makes a a hasty Retreat I said now since then when you are portraying things morality like that what happens is that 61% of the People latest statistics in America they are now in favor of premarital sex so I said look I'm told that religion Christianity is not a religion but it is a relationship so we said look without this religion if you don't listen to Jesus he said whosoever lookth upon a woman to last after her had committed adultery with her older in his heart so my dear brothers Mr chairman ladies and gentlemen I know this is a vast subject and we can carry on endlessly but I respect the Chairman's notice that my time has expired thank you very much indeed now we are extremely grateful for your Keen interest obviously we're all starting to participate in this because we have well over 200 questions what we're going to do is we're going to pour them we going to pour them behind [Music] me now some of these are going to be written in a language that I'm going to struggle with and therefore when that happens I'm going to pass them to the experts uh to translate and answer their questions I'm also going to try to make sure that the questions are as evenly balanced as possible now the first question is and it's addressed to did that why did Jesus allow Thomas to kneel at his feet and say to him my Lord and my God and Sir on these questions at one minute I will tap you and at two minutes I will be on my feet thank you why did Thomas why did Jesus allow Thomas to say my Lord and my God because Thomas when Jesus went to that upper room with for the very first time Thomas was not there and Jesus Christ demonstrated to his disciples that he was the same person eating food broil fish and honeycomb and the disciples testify to Thomas when he comes along and meets them he said look the master was here he had food with us so Thomas says except I put my finger into the print of the nails and put my hand into side I will not believe that Jesus is physically he was with us that he was if they told him that he was a spirit a ghost a spook he would have believed because people believed in Spooks and ghosts those days far more readily than anything else so Jesus when he comes along the second time to that Upper Room Thomas is there and he tells Thomas reach hither thy hand reach hi thy finger and behold my hands and put your hand into my side and don't be faithless so Thomas realizes that doubting Thomas that he was what a heal he was that all the disciples are testifying that the master was there that he's alive and he's eating broy fish and honecomb and he couldn't believe he wanted to do this and he wanted to do that so come on do it now and see so he realizes that he was a fool so he says my Lord my God what he was calling Jesus his God and Lord no this is an exclamation which people do when you are caught out my God it says an my God how could you quote me a Quran you know this verse is not in the Quran I said an my god do I mean an is my God no this is a figure of speech and expression thank you the next question the next question is prefaced in the name of Allah did Jesus pray if so why does an all perfect Claim by that's a claim by Christians the questioner says why does an all perfect God need to pray and to who did Jesus pray Dr sh beloved friends how lovely it is to be with you and I'd like to say to our brother I trust we will have another occasion to share the same platform together and perhaps I could even suggest a topic like he suggested the topic the answer to the [Music] question one of the difficulties apparently some of you are having is your god is too small God is big enough to come down to say to you I love you can you understand that much God is love and as such he comes in the form of a man a perfect man at that conquering every sin never sinning and as man representing you he was praying to the heavenly father remember as he was mentioning about while Jesus was on the cross he was saying I'm sure you recognize he was using the Arabic but Jesus was not speaking Arabic he was saying simply my God my God why did you forsake me and when Jesus died God does not die his body died he forever lives please remember that so he was speaking to the heavenly father thank you I'm afraid there are no supplementaries because I'm getting 300 at the same time so we are going to continue with the next question [Music] remember I'm going to I going to ask for quiet if I am going to ask for quiet sir or you will be ejected from this meeting if the person to whom the question is addressed does not answer the question then it is for him a defect and an advantage to his [Applause] opponent therefore we will not address ourselves to those kind of issues the next question is for Mr didat a quotation I and the father are one in the Greek the word one is neuter denoting one in essence and one in nature not just one in purpose Mr dap would you like to [Applause] comment this one in Greek is hen H and hen hen one now the same word hen is used in John chapter 17 where Jesus is speaking to God Almighty he says I am one with you and you with me and the disciples with me I in thee and thou in me we are all one hen same handen so now if this one makes one in that bodily form like a sausage one becomes like a sausage with God or Jesus becomes one with God as a sausage because he said this is one means one like Adam and Eve the Bible says that they twain shall be one flesh one sausage no in purpose same word in Greek hen the same word in Greek H for the Disciples of including Thomas and and Judas all of them we are one with you I with you God Almighty and you with me are one with me and I in them now that Oneness I'm asking what Oneness same H in Greek does it mean that they all become a sausage all the 12 disciples and the traitor Judas and with God and Jesus become a sausage no this one is in purpose and not in body or power or omnipotent or omniscience [Applause] [Music] but Dr shirro what do you mean by the statement Jesus is son of God the questioner wants to say with my full respect do you mean Jesus is direct Son of God Son of the God as I am the son of my father or do you have another meaning would you please explain if you will please remember that it is a spiritual title God never mared anybody God is a Triune God and I'd like to urge you to consider that when we say we see the Trinity 113 times in the Quran like the Bible says we must love one another we must recognize the truth of God in Christ reconciling you to himself thank [Applause] you Mr D could you please explain how God could save the world could you please explain how God could save the world as the New Testament claims if Jesus was not God coming in the flesh let me first correct my brother shos about BM you see means in the name of Allah most gracious most merciful who [Music] [Applause] Allah Allah who is most gracious most merciful and he's those go 99 attributes that is Allah he's not 99 Gods he's not three in one whereas the Christian formula is in the name of the father and the Son and the Holy [Applause] Ghost how does God save the world that was the question how does he say there is only one way and the way is believ in God God and do good deeds this is what Jesus says he says verily verily I say unto you most assuredly I'm telling you except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees you shall by no means enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless you are better than the Jew there is no heaven for you that is the way of [Applause] Salvation now Mr that has concluded that comment on a very positive statement I'm going to throw that same one open to Mr chiros and allow him to conclude on a similar positive statement albe it a very brief one thank [Applause] you once again I remind you Jesus never told a lie amen he said as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so must the son of man be lifted up that anyone believing in him should not perish but have everlasting life for God soul of the world that he sacrificed his only begotten son that anyone believing in him should not perish but have everlasting life when Abraham tried to provide his son God said no I will provide the offering and we praise God that tonight we can say for a truth God is father son and Holy Spirit one in three three in one mystery neither you nor I can understand it but we can accept it like a [Applause] CHR I'm going to ask for your quiet for a moment or two between 1 and 2,000 people were unable to get in here tonight and therefore they were reluctantly turned away by the police on the instruction of the authorities here because there was no room I felt when I heard about this that it must be impossible for a debate of this kind to be carried out between a Christian and a Muslim I'd like to ask you to thank the [Applause] speakers thank you and good [Music] night all Allah [Music] Allah Allah Allah Allah Allah Allah Allah Allah

Channel: soukISLAM

Views: 574,632

Keywords: Is Jesus God?, Jesus, God, Anis Shorrosh, Sheikh, Shaykh, Shaikh, Ahmed Deedat, Deedat, Debate, anis shorrosh

Id: QCsKW8AAy1U

Length: 156min 40sec (9400 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 11 2014