>> Jeyan: CANADA SET AMBITIOUS
NEW IMMIGRATION TARGETS
RECENTLY. BUT NUMBERS JUST OUT FROM
STATISTICS CANADA SUGGEST THAT
WHILE CANADA MAY ATTRACT PLENTY OF NEWCOMERS, WE DON'T SEEM TO
BE DOING SUCH A GOOD JOB KEEPING
THEM. DANIEL BERNHARD IS THE CEO OF
THE INSTITUTE FOR CANADIAN
CITIZENSHIP, AND HE JOINS US NOW FOR MORE. WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM. >> Daniel: THANK YOU. >> Jeyan: THIS IS THE STORY,
IMMIGRANTS WHO COME TO CANADA
AND BECOME PERMANENT RESIDENTS DON'T RUSH TO BECOME CANADIANS. SO ACCORDING TO STATISTICS
CANADA, IN 2001, 75% OF
PERMANENT RESIDENTS BECAME CITIZENS WITHIN 10 YEARS OF
THEIR ARRIVAL. IN 2016, THAT NUMBER WAS 60%. IN 2021, THAT NUMBER WAS DOWN TO
46%. DO WE KNOW WHY THIS IS THE CASE? >> WE DON'T KNOW. WE CAN SPECULATE. THERE ARE MANY THEORIES, FROM
APPLICATION FEES, PROCESSING
TIMES, UNDEREMPLOYMENT, ISOLATION -- PEOPLE NOT BEING
ABLE TO HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THE
BEAUTIFUL AND ENJOYABLE PARTS OF CANADA THAT MAKE LIFE WORTH
LIVING HERE. BUT I THINK THE FACT THAT WE
DON'T KNOW ACTUALLY FOR ME IS
THE MORE REVEALING STATISTIC BECAUSE NOBODY HAS REALLY
CHECKED. AND I THINK THIS SPEAKS REALLY
VOLUMES ABOUT CANADA'S ATTITUDE
TOWARDS IMMIGRANTS. WE'VE ASSUMED FOR SO LONG THAT
SINCE WE'RE NOT AN OFFICIALLY
XENOPHOBIC COUNTRY AND BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH A LONG TRADITION OF
IMMIGRATION HERE, AND SUCCESSFUL
IMMIGRATION, THAT PEOPLE WILL JUST WANT TO KEEP COMING AND
THAT THEIR LIVES WILL JUST
CONTINUE TO BE FINE AND GOOD, THAT THE FUTURE WILL JUST BE
LIKE THE PAST. WHAT THIS DATA I THINK STARTS TO
REVEAL IS THAT ACTUALLY MAYBE
THAT HISTORY OF IMMIGRATION, THAT LEGACY OF CITIZENSHIP IS
COMING UNDONE, THE MACHINE IS
STARTING TO SLOW DOWN. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN NOT JUST FOR
IMMIGRANTS' CONDITION HERE BUT
ABOUT THE COUNTRY AND ABOUT OUR FUTURE? SO THE FACT THAT NOBODY HAS
CHECKED ACTUALLY FOR ME IS BY
FAR THE MORE REVEALING THING AND WE'RE NOW WORKING PRETTY
FEVERISHLY TO TRY AND SEE IF WE
CAN GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS BECAUSE THE IMPLICATIONS FOR
CANADA, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION,
ARE GOING TO BE PRETTY STARK IF WE CAN'T REVERSE THIS TREND. >> Jeyan: DATA, DATA, DATA. VERY IMPORTANT STUFF. IN TERMS OF THE CONDITIONS
THEMSELVES THAT YOU MENTION,
WHAT ARE THEY? >> WELL, I THINK THAT WE'RE
FINDING A COUPLE OF MAJOR
TRENDS. SO FIRST AND FOREMOST, THE
PROFILE OF THE TYPICAL IMMIGRANT
WHO IS COMING HERE HAS CHANGED A LOT. SO WHEN MY PARENTS CAME TO
CANADA IN THE 1970s, ONE HAD A
HIGH SCHOOL DEGREE, ONE DIDN'T YET. THEY SPOKE VERY LITTLE ENGLISH. AND SO MY DAD, FOR EXAMPLE, SAW
NO PROBLEM IN GETTING UP ON
MONDAY MORNING IN TORONTO AND DRIVING TO BELLEVILLE WHERE HE
WORKED IN A FACTORY UNTIL FRIDAY
AND COMING HOME, WHILE MY MOM FINISHED HER STUDIES. THEY HAD NO IMMEDIATE
EXPECTATIONS OF HOME OWNERSHIP
OR HAVING A SENIOR EXECUTIVE JOB OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. TODAY, OF COURSE, CANADA IS
ATTRACTING A FAR HIGHER CALIBRE
OF TALENT FROM AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE WITH HIGHER SKILLS AND
EDUCATION, CREDENTIALS, VERY
ADVANCED JOB EXPERIENCE, AND OF COURSE WITH THAT COME MANY
QUALITY OF LIFE BENEFITS, PEOPLE
WHO ARE HOME OWNERS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE DOMESTIC HELP IN MANY CASES
DEPENDING ON THE COUNTRY WHERE
THEY CAME FROM WHERE THAT CAN BE RELATIVELY AFFORDABLE. SO COMING TO CANADA, INSTEAD OF
EVERYTHING BEING A FUTURE
POSSIBILITY AND EVERYTHING LOOKING UP, IN FACT MANY ARE
TAKING STEPS BACK AND ARE
WONDERING NOW ALOUD WHETHER THAT STEP-BACK WILL BE PERMANENT AND
WHETHER IT'S WORTH IT TO SORT OF
STICK IT OUT AND SEE IF YOU CAN RETAIN YOUR -- OR REGAIN YOUR
STATUS. SO I THINK THE CALIBRE OF
IMMIGRANTS ARE CHANGING A LOT,
AND OUR NARRATIVE OF WHO IMMIGRANTS ARE HAS NOT EVOLVED
COMMENSURATELY. WE STILL HAVE THIS IDEA OF, YOU
KNOW, $5 IN YOUR POCKET, PUT
YOUR HEAD DOWN, WORK HARD, ET CETERA. THAT WAS MY PARENTS. THAT WAS MANY PEOPLE. THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO
ARRIVE THAT WAY BUT MANY, MANY
WHO DON'T. AND UNTIL OUR SETTLEMENT
SERVICES, OUR ECONOMIC
ATTITUDES, OUR HIRING PRACTICES CAN ADJUST TO THE REALITY OF WHO
THE CONTEMPORARY IMMIGRANT IS,
WE'LL CONTINUE TO FALL SHORT HERE. >> Jeyan: I WANT TO STICK ON
THE WHO A LITTLE BIT. HISTORICALLY THIS HAS CHANGED IN
TERMS OF WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING
FROM TO CANADA. DO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHERE MOST
OF OUR PERMANENT OR, RATHER, SAY
OUR NEWCOMERS ARE COMING FROM? >> INDIA, CHINA, AND THE
PHILIPPINES IS THE SHORT ANSWER,
WILL MAKE UP MORE THAN HALF IN ANY GIVEN YEAR. OBVIOUSLY IT FLUCTUATES. BUT THE ORIGINS OF NEWCOMERS
HAVE CHANGED THROUGHOUT OUR
HISTORY. THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, ENGLISH,
SCOTTISH, IRISH, AND WE MOVED TO
OTHER PARTS OF EUROPE, UKRAINIANS OBVIOUSLY POPULATED
LARGE PARTS OF THE WEST. NOW THERE'S PEOPLE COMING FROM
SOUTHEAST ASIA AND EAST ASIA. THE FUTURE LOOKS LIKELY TO BE
MORE AFRICAN. I THINK THAT THIS IS PART OF
CANADA'S INTERESTING HISTORY IS
OUR ABILITY TO WELCOME PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD, SO LONG
AS THEY'RE COMMITTED TO THEIR
FUTURE BEING CANADIAN. THIS IS THE CENTRAL CORE OF OUR
IDENTITY. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT PERHAPS
LATER. THE CITIZENSHIP NUMBERS, IN MY
OPINION, ARE ALARMING BECAUSE
THEY CALL INTO QUESTION WHETHER PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY COMMITTED TO
THEIR FUTURE BEING CANADIAN. THAT'S THE MAJOR DISRUPTION THAT
WE'RE STARTING TO OBSERVE. IN TERMS OF OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS,
NEWCOMERS TEND TO BE ALMOST
TWICE AS LIKELY AS THE AVERAGE CANADIAN TO HOLD A BACHELOR'S
DEGREE. THEY ARE ON BALANCE FAR YOUNGER. HALF OF CANADIANS ARE, YOU KNOW,
OVER 41 AND NEWCOMERS ARE -- 80%
ARE UNDER THAT AGE, SO THEY'RE YOUNGER, BETTER EDUCATED, THEY
COME WITH FEW BRAND LOYALTIES
AND FEW PRECONCEPTIONS AND VERY RICH PROSPECTS. SO MUCH OF OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN
BUILT ON PUTTING THEIR TALENT
AND ENERGIES TO USE FOR THE PURPOSE OF CANADA. CITIZENSHIP IS ONE MARKER OF
THAT INTENTION TO DEVOTE
YOURSELF AND YOUR LIFE. >> Jeyan: YOU HAD SAID THAT
THE NUMBERS ARE ALARMING, YOU
ONCE SAID SHOCKING. BUT WHEN I READ THROUGH THOSE
NUMBERS, THE TRAJECTORY HAS
ALWAYS BEEN MOVING DOWNWARDS FOR QUITE SOME TIME AS WELL. SO SHOULD IT BE REALLY SHOCKING
OR ALARMING? >> WELL, IT'S A 20-YEAR TREND. I THINK IT'S STILL ALARMING. EARLIER I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE
HAVEN'T CHECKED SO WE'RE ALL
KIND OF A BIT SURPRISED. I THINK WHAT THIS MEANS THOUGH
IS THAT THE CONTINGENT FACTORS
LIKE APPLICATION BACKLOGS FOR COVID OR WHETHER IT'S A LIBERAL
OR CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT --
THESE ARE NOT REALLY CENTRAL HERE. THERE'S SOMETHING BIGGER GOING
ON. SO I THINK THE BIGGER THING
THAT'S GOING ON IS THE DECLINING
MARKET VALUE OF BEING CANADIAN. THAT'S WHAT THE DATA ARE SAYING
TO US. BEING CANADIAN IS BECOMING LESS
DESIRABLE. THAT'S CONCERNING TO ME AND I
IMAGINE IT WOULD BE CONCERNING
TO MANY OF YOUR VIEWERS AS WELL. >> Jeyan: VERY INTERESTING
STUFF. I WANT TO SEE -- GET AN IDEA OF
HOW THE INSTITUTE FOR CANADIAN
CITIZENSHIP IS SORT OF HELPING FIX THAT. WHAT ARE THE WAYS IN WHICH YOUR
INSTITUTE IS TRYING TO MAKE
CANADA MORE UNDERSTANDABLE TO IMMIGRANTS? >> OUR ORGANIZATION WAS FOUNDED
BY THE RIGHT HONOURABLE ADRIENNE
CLARKSON AFTER SHE LEFT RIDEAU HALL AS GOVERNOR GENERAL AND
JOHN RALSTON SAUL, THE ACCLAIMED
WRITER AND ACADEMIC. MADAME CLARKSON'S STORY I THINK
IS IMPORTANT, AND I'LL TELL YOU
WHY. SHE ARRIVED IN CANADA AS A
REFUGEE AND ROSE TO BECOME HEAD
OF STATE. I CAN'T THINK OF ANY ANOTHER
COUNTRY WHERE THAT'S EVEN LEGAL,
LET ALONE LIKELY. IN CANADA ACTUALLY I WOULD GO SO
FAR AS TO SAY IT WAS EVEN
UNREMARKABLE, IT WAS NORMAL. THAT I THINK SAYS A LOT ABOUT
US, ABOUT WHAT WE'RE WILLING TO
ACCEPT. IF PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY WILL
COMMIT TO CANADA AND BEING
CANADIAN, THAT LITERALLY ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. SO THE INSTITUTE WAS STARTED TO
KEEP THAT DREAM ALIVE, I THINK,
TO ENSURE THAT A COUNTRY THAT WOULD APPOINT A REFUGEE AS HEAD
OF STATE WAS NOT A COUNTRY OF
THE PAST. AND SO WE DO A FEW THINGS. WE HAVE THREE CORE PROGRAMS. SO FIRST OF ALL,
WE CELEBRATE THAT JOURNEY OF
CITIZENSHIP. WE HOST ENHANCED CITIZENSHIP
CEREMONIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY,
WHICH INCLUDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR NEW CITIZENS
TO INTERACT WITH INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE. MANY FOR THE FIRST TIME
INCLUDE ARTISTIC
COMPONENTS, MAKE IT MORE OF A CELEBRATION,
AND NOT JUST
GO TO YOUR GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS WHERE YOUR OATH AND GO HOME. WE DO
PUBLIC POLICY RESEARCH,
UNEARTHING SOME OF THE DATA, FOR EXAMPLE,
THAT THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT TODAY AND ALSO LOOKING AT OTHER
FACTORS
THAT MAY NOT PEOPLE OFF THAT TRACK FROM ARRIVAL TO
CITIZENSHIP. AND THAT'S BOTH IN THE LEGAL
SENSE,
BUT ALSO IN YOUR HEART AND IN THE SENSE OF BELIEFS
AND BEHAVIORS AND
CITIZENSHIP FOR ME IS THIS DETERMINATION THAT THIS IS MY
PLACE AND THESE ARE MY PEOPLE,
AND HAVING THE PASSPORT IS ONE INDICATOR OF THAT BUT IT'S A
STATE OF PERSONAL BELIEF, OF
BELONGING. AND THE WAY THAT WE TRY TO
INTERVENE ON SCALE TO CULTIVATE
THAT SENSE OF BELONGING IS THROUGH A PROGRAM WE HAVE CALLED
THE CANOE ACCESS PASS. THIS IS REALLY JUST A FANTASTIC
PROGRAM. IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR QUITE A
WHILE. IT USED TO GIVE NEW CANADIAN
CITIZENS FREE ENTRY TO OVER 1400
NATIONAL PARKS, MUSEUMS, SCIENCE CENTRES, ET CETERA, FOR A FAMILY
OF FOUR AS A WAY OF SAYING
"WELCOME TO CANADA." WHAT WE HAVE REALIZED, OF
COURSE, IS THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE
TAKING A LONG TIME TO BECOME CITIZENS. SO ABOUT A YEAR AGO WE OPENED
CANOE TO EVERY PERMANENT
RESIDENT WITHIN THEIR FIRST FIVE YEARS OF THEIR ARRIVAL. AND THIS IS A TRANSFORMATIVE,
EXPERIENTIAL WELCOME TO MAKE
CANADA EASY TO LOVE AND HARDER TO LEAVE. PEOPLE ARE FORGING CONNECTIONS
WITH EACH OTHER, THEY'RE
DISCOVERING NEW HOBBIES. THEY'RE TRAVELLING THE COUNTRY. THERE ARE VERY GENEROUS
DISCOUNTS FROM AIR CANADA AND
VIA RAIL. SO THIS IS A NEW WAY FOR
NEWCOMERS TO HAVE A VIP WELCOME
TO CANADA AND FOR ALL OF CANADA TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT WELCOME. CANOE IS CURRENTLY BEING USED BY
OVER 100,000 PEOPLE, AND THAT
WILL ONLY CONTINUE TO GROW. >> Jeyan: ALL RIGHT. I WANT TO PICK UP ON SOMETHING
YOU HAD MENTIONED. WITH THE ENGLISH, FRENCH, AND
INDIGENOUS SPLIT, CANADA WAS
NEVER TRULY ONE THING. WITH INCREASED MULTICULTURALISM,
IT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY
MANY, MANY THINGS. IS THERE A PROBLEM TRYING TO
EXPLAIN CANADA TO NEW
IMMIGRANTS? >> I THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM IF
YOU THINK THERE'S A NEED TO TRY. CANADA HAS BEEN NOTORIOUSLY
DIFFICULT TO PIN DOWN. AS WE WERE DISCUSSING A LITTLE
BIT EARLIER, THOUGH, I THINK
THAT THIS IDEA OF CANADA BEING OPEN TO IMMIGRANTS, NOT JUST
COMING HERE TO LIVE BUT TO BUILD
THEIR HOMES AND THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR BUSINESSES AND THEIR
FUTURES AS CANADIANS, IS
ACTUALLY, IN MY OPINION, THE CENTRAL TENET OF THE CANADIAN
IDENTITY. SO THERE ARE LOTS OF COUNTRIES
AROUND THE WORLD WHERE IT'S
COLD, LOTS OF PEOPLE PLAY HOCKEY, LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE NICE,
LOTS OF PEOPLE HAVE SUBSIDIZED
HEALTH CARE -- THERE'S ONLY ONE "AGENDA" OF COURSE. BUT THIS IDEA OF ALLOWING PEOPLE
TO BECOME CITIZENS, TO JOIN YOUR
TEAM HAS BEEN IN THE DISCOURSE IN CANADA FOR CENTURIES. IT'S ORIGINALLY AN INDIGENOUS
TRADITION WHERE EUROPEANS WERE
WELCOMED HERE TO SHARE THE RICHNESS OF THE LAND. OF COURSE, THAT WELCOME WAS
BETRAYED AND WE KNOW ALL TOO
WELL ABOUT THAT. BUT THAT TRADITION THANKFULLY
HAS SURVIVED INTO MODERN CANADA. YOU CAN LOOK AT POLITICAL
SPEECHES FROM WILFRID LAURIER IN
1904 TALKING ABOUT THIS, LOUIS LAFONTAINE WAS TALKING ABOUT
THIS IN THE 1840s, ABOUT
CANADA BEING A PLACE WHERE, NO MATTER THE LAND OF YOUR
ANCESTORS, THE LAND OF YOUR
FUTURE SHALL BE CANADA AND THAT THIS WILL BE A HERITAGE THAT WE
TRANSMIT TO OUR CHILDREN, THAT
THEIR FUTURE LIKES OURS WILL BE CANADIAN. THIS IS A REALLY CENTRAL IDEA. IT'S IN THE SOIL. IT'S IN THE AIR. AND IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
I THINK MAKES CANADA TRULY,
TRULY DIFFERENT TO ALL OF THE OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES WHERE
THIS IS STILL CONTENTIOUS. FOR US, IT'S CENTRAL AND
FOUNDATIONAL. IT'S PART OF THE REASON WHY
THESE NUMBERS ARE SO CONCERNING
TO ME. THIS IS A LONG LEGACY OF
CITIZENSHIP. IF IT'S BEING INTERRUPTED OR
QUESTIONED, THE IMPLICATIONS ARE
PERHAPS FAR GREATER THAN WHAT PEOPLE MAY ASSUME. >> Jeyan: ALL RIGHT. I AM GOING TO PULL UP A PRETTY
RECENT AND INTERESTING EXAMPLE
OF HOW COMPLICATED THIS COUNTRY IS. WE MAY NOT ASSUME THAT THIS IS
WHERE THIS EXAMPLE IS COMING
FROM, BUT THIS IS A SNIPPET OF JULLY BLACK'S PERFORMANCE OF
CANADA'S NATIONAL ANTHEM AT THIS
WEEKEND'S NBA ALL-STAR WEEKEND WHICH WAS IN SALT LAKE CITY,
UTAH. LET'S HAVE A LOOK. ♪ O CANADA ♪
♪ OUR HOME ON NATIVE LAND ♪
>> Jeyan: SO THERE YOU GO "ON NATIVE LAND," NOT "AND NATIVE
LAND." HOW DO YOU THINK KNEW IMMIGRANTS
ARE CONTENDING WITH THIS -- NEW
IMMIGRANTS ARE CONTENDING WITH THIS PART OF HISTORY AND WHETHER
IT IS SOMETHING THEY SHOULD
CONCERN THEMSELVES? >> WE HELD AN EVENT IN CALGARY
IN OCTOBER. THERE'S BEEN AN EVENT SERIES
CALLED THE LAFONTAINE BALDWIN
LECTURES THAT OUR ORGANIZATION HAS HOSTED FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. IN OCTOBER, GOVERNOR GENERAL
MARY SIMON SPOKE ABOUT
IMMIGRATION AND RECONCILIATION. AND THESE THINGS ARE
INTENTIONED, AS THE PERFORMANCE
JUST SHOWED. WE WANTED TO SEE IF WE COULD GET
TO THE BOTTOM OF IT. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE
GOVERNOR GENERAL POINTED OUT IS,
LIKE I SAID EARLIER, THAT ACTUALLY INDIGENOUS PEOPLES'
INITIAL RESPONSE TO THE
EUROPEANS' ARRIVAL IS THERE'S PLENTY OF SPACE HERE, THERE'S
PLENTY TO GO AROUND, AND THE
EUROPEANS WOULD ALL BE DEAD HAD THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE NOT TAUGHT
THEM HOW TO SURVIVE THE WINTER. IT'S A HARSH PLACE. SO THIS TRADITION OF WELCOME
GOES BACK A LONG WAY. THERE IS, HOWEVER, A DANGER, I
BELIEVE, IN CANADA, IF NEWCOMERS
DON'T BELIEVE THEMSELVES TO BE IMPLICATED IN THAT HISTORY, THEN
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN ISSUE. AND WE HEAR FROM PEOPLE,
UNDERSTANDABLY, SAYING, "LOOK, I
GET IT. BUT I DIDN'T PUT ANYONE IN A
RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL. I JUST CAME FIVE YEARS AGO. IN FACT, I CAME FROM A COUNTRY
THAT WAS ALSO COLONIZED BY THE
BRITISH." WHAT WE FOUND, HOWEVER, IS THAT
THAT SHARED EXPERIENCE CREATES A
LOT OF VERY INTERESTING OPPORTUNITIES FOR SOLIDARITY. AND IN CALGARY, THE CENTRE FOR
NEWCOMERS, ALONG WITH THE
CALGARY FOUNDATION, HAS CREATED THIS PROGRAM CALLED INDIGENOUS
EDUCATION FOR NEWCOMERS, AND YOU
WOULD NOT BELIEVE HOW WELL-SUBSCRIBED THIS IS. AT OUR CITIZENSHIP CEREMONIES
WHERE THERE'S THE RECEPTION LINE
AT THE END, THE INDIGENOUS REPRESENTATIVE, TYPICALLY AN
ELDER, GETS THE MOST HUGS BY
FAR. AND PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. THEY HAVE MANY MORE THINGS IN
COMMON THAN THEY DO APART. BUT BEING CANADIAN IS ABOUT NOT
ONLY OWNING OUR FUTURE AND
COMING TO GET SOMETHING, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT BEING
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PAST. AND WE HAVE FOUND THAT NEWCOMERS
REALLY UNDERSTAND. THEY UNDERSTAND RACISM. THEY UNDERSTAND DISCRIMINATION. THEY UNDERSTAND DISPOSSESSION. THEY UNDERSTAND A LOT OF THINGS
THAT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EXPLAINED
TO THEM. AND THEY ARE NATURAL ALLIES IN
MANY CASES. WE FIND THAT THE NEWCOMERS WE
WORK WITH TEND TO BE
OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORTIVE OF CANADA'S IMPERATIVE TO RECOVER
FROM ALL THE INJUSTICES THAT
HAVE BEEN PERPETRATED UPON INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN THE PAST. >> Jeyan: ALL RIGHT. I WANT TO GO TO ANOTHER STUDY. THERE WAS A RECENT LEGER STUDY. 22% OF NEW CANADIANS ARE LIKELY
TO LEAVE CANADA. AGAIN, I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE GOING
TO PROBABLY POINT TO SOME OF THE
SAME THINGS THERE, BUT WHAT DO YOU POINT TO THE REASONS BEHIND
IT? >> SO THERE WE ASKED THEM A
LITTLE BIT MORE. AND THEY BASICALLY SAID THAT THE
ISSUE WAS THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH
MONEY. THEY TALKED ABOUT COST OF
LIVING, BUT OF COURSE COST OF
LIVING IS RELATIVE TO HOW MUCH YOU EARN, AND WE ARE PUBLISHING
CONSTANTLY, WE JUST PUBLISHED A
REPORT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, THERE'S A NEW ONE COMING OUT
SOON, ABOUT DISADVANTAGES THAT
IMMIGRANTS, ESPECIALLY HIGHLY SKILLED IMMIGRANTS FACE IN THE
LABOUR MARKET. LIKE I SAID EARLIER, THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE COMING HAVE CHOICES. THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE. THEY COME WITH MUCH MORE
PEDIGREE IN THAT SENSE THAN MY
PARENTS AND MANY PAST GENERATIONS OF NEWCOMERS. AND SO THEY HAVE ALSO
EXPECTATIONS OF BEING ABLE TO
FIND THEIR WAY HERE. AND IF THEY DON'T FIND IT,
THEY'LL LOOK FOR IT SOMEWHERE
ELSE. I THINK THIS REALLY SPEAKS TO
THE KIND OF CENTRAL POINT OF
THIS ISSUE, WHICH IS THAT SO MUCH OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
WITH RESPECT TO IMMIGRATION IS
NOT JUST ABOUT IMMIGRANTS' CONDITION HERE. THIS IS NOT A HUMANITARIAN
QUESTION. I MEAN, THAT'S PART OF IT. BUT IT'S ABOUT OUR ENTIRE
SOCIETY BENEFITING. THIS IS AN ENGINE OF RENEWAL AND
GROWTH AND NEW IDEAS AND TALENT
AND ENERGY THAT'S BEEN DRIVING CANADA FORWARD AND DRIVING
CANADA'S PROSPERITY FOR HUNDREDS
OF YEARS. WE HAVE BIG CHALLENGES IN HEALTH
CARE, FOR EXAMPLE. IN ONTARIO ALONE, THERE ARE AN
ESTIMATED 13,000 PEOPLE WHO HAVE
A MEDICAL DEGREE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY. SEVERAL THOUSAND OF THEM HAVE
ALREADY PASSED THEIR CANADIAN
ACCREDITATION EXAMS. WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A
FULL-BLOWN GLOBAL HEALTH CARE
CRISIS. AND THESE PEOPLE ARE SAYING: PUT
ME IN, COACH, I'M READY. I WANT TO CONTRIBUTE. I WANT TO HELP. I'M HERE. I WOULD LOVE TO SERVE CANADA IN
THIS WAY. AND WE'RE SAYING, "SORRY, BUT
NO. WE'D RATHER THAT PEOPLE WAIT IN
LINE FOR YEARS THAN TO HAVE YOU
WORK IN OUR SYSTEM. EVEN THOUGH YOU PASSED ALL OF
OUR EXAMS AND STANDARDS." YEAH, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR
THE DOCTOR? IT'S TERRIBLE. IT'S DISCOURAGING. BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR US WHO
HAVE THIS TALENT AND IT'S
WILLING AND ABLE AND READY TO GO AND WE'RE SAYING, NO, WE'D
RATHER WAIT IN LINE. SO THIS IS JUST AS MUCH ABOUT
PATIENTS AS IT IS ABOUT THE
DOCTORS. AND THIS EXAMPLE CAN BE
EXTRAPOLATED INTO EVERY OTHER
SECTION OF THE ECONOMY, CULTURE. YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR
FAMOUS AUTHORS AND ATHLETES,
NEWCOMERS HAVE DRIVEN US AS A COUNTRY SO FAR. THE WORLD CUP TEAM IS AN EXAMPLE
THAT I USE. CANADA'S STAR PLAYER CAME AS A
REFUGEE. WHEN HE SHOWS UP TO WORK, HE
LITERALLY WRAPS HIMSELF IN THE
MAPLE LEAF. HE HAS DECIDED THAT THIS IS MY
PLACE AND THESE ARE MY PEOPLE
AND LOOK WHAT WE'VE ACHIEVED AS A NATION AS A RESULT OF THAT. SO ALL OF US ARE IMPLICATED IN
THIS. ALL OF US ARE IMPLICATED IN
THIS. THIS IS FOR ALL OF US TO TRY AND
SORT OUT BECAUSE IT'S OUR COMMON
FUTURE THAT'S AT STAKE. >> Jeyan: SO SOME NEW
IMMIGRANTS ARE LEAVING. SOME ARE TURNING THEIR BACKS ON
CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP. IS CANADA NOT AS GREAT AT
IMMIGRATION AS WE THOUGHT WE
WERE? YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT SIMPLY BEING
PRO-IMMIGRATION AND SAYING THAT
YOU'RE PRO-IMMIGRATION AND THINK THAT'S GOING TO RESONATE WITH
THE REST OF THE WORLD IS ENOUGH. ARE WE NOT AS GOOD AS WHAT WE
THOUGHT WE WERE? >> I THINK THAT WE ARE
DEFINITELY NOT AS GOOD AS WHAT
WE THOUGHT WE WERE. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S
IRRETRIEVABLE. THERE ARE A FEW FACTORS, YOU
KNOW, DEFINITELY MILITATING IN
OUR FAVOUR. FIRST AND FOREMOST, RELATIVE TO
OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES IN THE
WORLD, WE REMAIN STILL A VERY POSITIVE PLACE FOR IMMIGRANTS TO
COME. WE'RE NOW ALARMED TO THE POINT
WHERE IT'S CURRENT AFFAIRS
TV-WORTHY TO TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT FEWER IMMIGRANTS ARE
BECOMING CITIZENS. I'VE DONE MANY, MANY INTERVIEWS
ABOUT THIS STORY IN THE LAST
COUPLE OF DAYS. IN FACT, MY LINKEDIN POST WITH
THIS INFORMATION HAS BEEN VIEWED
OVER 230,000 TIMES, AND FOR ME 230 TIMES IS A LOT, RIGHT? SO THIS HAS REALLY, REALLY
CAUGHT ON. THERE ARE OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE
GERMANY, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE
PEOPLE CAN LIVE FOR MANY GENERATIONS WITHOUT BECOMING A
CITIZEN. SO, RELATIVELY SPEAKING, WE
STILL MAINTAIN AN ADVANTAGE. AND IN TERMS OF PUBLIC OPINION
POLLING, 70% OF CANADIANS
BELIEVE THAT IMMIGRATION LEVELS ARE EITHER TOO LOW OR RIGHT, AND
THAT INCLUDES A MAJORITY OF
PEOPLE WHO VOTE CONSERVATIVE, LIBERAL, EVERY POLITICAL
DISPOSITION. THAT PUBLIC OPINION REMAINS
STRONG. I THINK THE CHALLENGE NOW IS HOW
WE CAN TRANSLATE THOSE VALUES
INTO REALITY FOR NEWCOMERS GIVEN THE CHANGING NATURE OF THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING, AND IF
YOU THINK ABOUT IT THIS WAY, WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE WAY BETTER
SKILLED, WAY BETTER EDUCATED AND
WANT TO MAKE A GO OF IT HERE AND WANT TO CONTRIBUTE. WE HAVE SO MUCH MORE TO GAIN
THAN PERHAPS WE DID IN THE PAST. OUR MINDSET NEEDS TO CATCH UP,
THOUGH. I THINK IF THAT HAPPENS THE
REALITY FOR NEWCOMERS WILL
IMPROVE. THEIR WILLINGNESS TO CONTRIBUTE
IS UNCHANGED. WE JUST NEED TO CATCH UP WITH
WHO IS ACTUALLY COMING HERE AND
CREATE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR
FULL POTENTIAL AND WE WILL BE
UNSTOPPABLE. >> Jeyan: WE HAVE LESS THAN A
MINUTE HERE. I'M OBVIOUSLY GOING TO ASK A BIG
QUESTION WITH LESS THAN A
MINUTE. IN TERMS OF SOLUTIONS, YOU TALK
ABOUT THE MINDSET -- THAT'S ONE
THING. THE POLICIES IS THE OTHER. THOSE SOLUTIONS LIE WITH
GOVERNMENT, BOTH PROVINCIAL AND
FEDERAL. WHAT DO YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE
DONE? >> SO I THINK GOVERNMENT HAS A
ROLE TO PLAY, BUT I DON'T WANT
TO PLACE TOO MUCH EMPHASIS ON GOVERNMENT BECAUSE GOVERNMENT
DIDN'T TELL SOMEONE THEY
COULDN'T HAVE A JOB BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE CANADIAN EXPERIENCE,
GOVERNMENT DIDN'T JACK UP THE
PRICE OF YOUR RENT, NECESSARILY. GOVERNMENT I THINK NEEDS TO HAVE
A PLAN, FIRST AND FOREMOST,
ABOUT WHEN YOU ARRIVE, WHERE IS YOUR SIN CARD GOING TO COME
FROM, WHERE IS YOUR DOCTOR GOING
TO COME FROM? THESE KINDS OF THINGS I THINK
COULD BE DEFINITELY IMPROVED. BUT ALL OF US, ESPECIALLY
EMPLOYERS, NEED TO REALIZE,
PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH SKILLED
LABOUR TO RUN THEIR BUSINESSES
AND YET WE HAVE HIGHLY SKILLED IMMIGRANTS DRIVING TAXIS,
PROVERBIALLY. THAT LABOUR SHORTAGE ISN'T REAL,
BUT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND
NEWCOMERS' POTENTIAL. IF WE DO THAT, WE CAN DEPLOY
THAT POTENTIAL IN AMAZING WAYS. THAT'S HOW CANADA'S PAST WAS
BUILT AND I TRULY BELIEVE THAT
OUR FUTURE PROSPERITY WILL LIE IN THE SAME DIRECTION. ALL THE POTENTIAL IS THERE. WE JUST NEED TO PUT IT TO WORK. >> Jeyan: DANIEL, REALLY GREAT
HAVING YOU ON THE PROGRAM. THIS IS REALLY FASCINATING
STUFF. THANKS SO MUCH. >> THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.
