Irene Epstein Full Testimony

which is good yeah and at any point if you want to say something again or repeat it or get up and take a break okay I know understand yeah yeah so that's done okay I will start with if you could just spell your first and last name okay my name is Irene Epstein and it's AI e and e EP s de I and today is a twenty-foot 21st [Music] [Music] so one of the things that we like to do is kind of start at the beginning if you want to just share who you are and where you were born and when you were born what it was like well my name is Irene Epstein and I was born in Warsaw in 1924 so in Germany this January I was 95 years old which amazes me that I survived to this point my mother and father very nice home in dorsal and had a very happy childhood I had an English nanny when I was little and I spoke English since I was a little girl I went to a Catholic school because it was a privately very good school The Searchers girls there but we always I always fell anti senators in Poland my brother it was far as younger went to a Jewish give nauseam because that's time we started hearing about Hitler and my parents who had not religious at all but the fat Jewish decided it was a good idea to bring my brother knowing about being a Jew I heard that I heard I had tundish lessons I have swimming lessons I skied I skated are you wonderful friends that must be Jewish friends even though I went to school with a lot of food sorry girls they did not play well with us we always felt somehow strangers I remember where our president the fifth key Joseph Joe said she doubted and he was very good to the Jews so I was I was very upset when he does and I wrote a poem and I remember that poem was read at the hood in his memory but I was not allowed to read it he was read that somebody somebody else the summer of 39 we went to we always run away for the summer to summer resort they responded understand Ikki which were semi this Iranian border of Poland I never forget they weren't if retire yet my brother my mother my dad would come and visit because she could not get away for the whole time and it was like a magic from it unfortunately there was the last freedom in good time that that we had I want to tell you that my mother was fair an attorney which was she finished password and for a woman and especially a Jewish or a bed it was very unusual you know another other was also into college said you were very good in that for this business but he was a very good mathematician and they were both professional people my dad called my mom and said get back to Warsaw the war was started and you won't be able to connect just back and come back there was at the end of August and we got on the train the trains weren't already packed with people we got back to Warsaw my grandparents were visiting us from Palestine my mother's parents they're spending there winters in paraffin and their summers in Poland they didn't Palestine and they were able to leave only laughs both because they had the Viva and their password and they left for Palestine and they were able to survive the war in Palestine their four children my mother and her three brothers Benjamin Jacob and Joseph there are the Australian Poland and they could they couldn't get out none of us could get could get out when the Germans came the requisition our beautiful house and we had to move and they said you can take anything you would be a chef and you'll be shot so removed with nothing with nothing everything had to be left removed with my mother's brother we're so happy is apartment and his wife and he's saying so after that the German started building a wall around the ghetto they put everybody other Jews had to go in together they were so ghetto and the Jewish man actually building the wall devours I was 12 feet high with barbed wire on top 1,800 streets and or so and there were 73 encompass together so we were all crowd that tradition they were Russians we had no food we had no fermentation and he was awful we were hungry and dirty and the worst part was that Germans started to health around us they were rounded the people and Sundin supposedly our neighbor but really the Sun started sending them to the chance where they read they read they retread the Deaf times the gas guns and that's what happens part of this you would like to kind of talk about your friends and relatives and what life used to be like as you remember it if if if there are memories that come up about the good times yes not not the camera okay yeah yes the Jewish girls were very were very very close and some of my friends who survived the fall of us actually about no they survived and yeah three that was closest to ended up in the devastating the reserve and we prayed we used to walk each other too we went to school together and then we talked and talking now see I'll take I'll see you home no then I will see you home and we walk back and forth and talked and just said it well if we're doing and we played bridge because our parents played bridge so we learn how to play bridge the bridge group we took our languages foreign languages together that I practice my English with a private teacher one of my friends was taking the lessons with me and we get out to ride right WCA um swimming together birthday party I remember my 16th my 15th birthday my mother gave me party it's kind of a growing average six of my best friends very redundant yeah yeah the drama every dancer you don't know boys just girls email address that was there was a cafe a very famous bakery owned by a Gentile family and they got it I was going to school with us and Louis used to go there for doughnuts and other goodies where they were cafe and one day was her birthday little note that was being passed and we got her we got invited to the party but there was a mouth passed so they were after us do you have two three have to have the Jersey girls through somebody picked up that note so we felt like really they really didn't want us there but the parents who have so many Jewish customers so that we should be invited there was the attitude yeah he always family anti-semitism in this school I did well in humanities in writing and a memory when we had a field trip to Krakow it's a very famous medieval city in Poland and I randomly did its right school and after we came back we had to write in our English you know literature accursed language was about our trip and when the teacher returned our essays I was sick their bed and the girl best friend's car mrs. Irene teacher read your essay they said that was the best one and it should that we should take example of your ID so I was very very fragile I decided right then that I wanted to be a writer and that's really funny because now my granddaughter wanted to be a writer yeah don't like that it's right to be right over it's sad I guess it's in the genes unfortunately yeah my father had three sisters one of his sister lived in the Warsaw and she actually put him through school giving piano lessons and they usually had to say they're theater big house and they always had the Seder for this army very well they actually were not religious and I don't even be going to synagogue or my mother going to synagogue I think my dad used to go knock on Yom Kippur and on his father's yard site he's my father's father immigrated to Palestine where his daughter lived because she okay by God he had three sisters one lived in Palestine because she married a Zionist Russian engineer and he settle in Palestine one of the Germany just before Hitler started came they moved to England and were able to take almost everything with them filled because there was before Hitler came to power so one lived in England and there was one sister who lived in their work with versa and she was around about near the desk of course and um she uses her the holidays she had a little boy his name is uric and like my brother and they're the same age my brother and his cousin just knew I was Jewish I was you know if I would know that the post with everybody in school okay it summer there was a spa a special spell what men and women could go in and when on one side remember the other side and all kinds of activities there swimming for their exercise and the women could work bikini their bikinis or they had or you can even look no because they were all women and you get exercise their diets food they had Tennessee all kinds of activities they're just great that we had yeah so we spend the day in this spot and my brother was on the other side in the men's spot and and then we are staking a beautiful Villa we rented for this summer and in the evening after Bella cook would go home and had dinner it was like a party on and then we we used to go to the park a special party there and they hear their band play every single now there was a band so we used to go to the concert and they were starting before that I used to play there and go play tennis and take tennis lessons and it was just wonderful to him and his friends I've got a couple friends there I know my friends from school was there so we did things together and it's the first time that I kind of so started to look at boys and boys started to look at me and so he was oh oh you know he was a wonderful wonderful father relationships like with your with your mother or with your funds you want to talk about your relations yes my mother I looked after my mother I thought my mother was the cleverest firstly than their work no wait no she belonged to the yeah she participated in the PTA in my school and she every time she gave a speech I always heard about it from my friends that your mother my mother told me they're my just spoken you know how good she she is was really involved in my in my school as much as they allow you know a louder and I always looked after her and she gave me a lot of pointers how to act how to behave she said with my friends you know if I was mr. somebody you know how to do you know and she was very very close she was always the best student in your class and she different who was also very good student and both of them say number one in school and then they both went to law school and her friend became a judge main idea was helping the German refugees who came to Poland after Hitler came she's gotten involved in me recently have the Jewish Russian German Jewish Russian sister came to Poland the fear of children so she was active in that she didn't know that we didn't even imagine that this was gonna happen to us to the amiga of the Russians do you want to do you want to talk more about growing up in Warsaw would you like to talk about that time when the when the balls were being built in the ghetto and forward well all I can say is it I had a wonderful childhood and the way in my every serves me my whole life yet I was left in a day he had I knew what was right and I was wrong my everything that my parents gave me served me all my life he still does every summer we would lead Warsaw and go to seven resorts and there was a wonderful time we swam we returned is a wonderful time usually they did would say in the city that he was come like the weekends or if he was too far away the other weekend to show you it as we when the area before the skinny Kiran to or love the ocean on the Baltic Sea and it's very near the dance a German border and we are there wonderful time there I've never seen the sea and was so excited to see they were they they were all right because were so that's a big river but is nothing like me like the sea well they I took a kayak and kayak by myself all the way on and on and I guess I must have caught the German border and knowing the other but everybody was luckily for me my mom and dad were friendly and the blisters on my hands from Rory that came back and he said how could you do that deal didn't tell us for doing that yeah that showed me well yeah Todd not to be a clinging vine yes well there was one three than in emotional way we all walked it was record dating trace so all the girls walk you know after school we worked at three that the other boys didn't you just really have to the Lord [Music] well it was a big honor cuz people you know in town there weren't any houses in town they mostly department us we really did Rhonda was a huge entry hall and from as you answered to the left was my dad's office although here these office downtown but there was when he was home there was his office and there was bedroom bedroom and to the right was the dining room then my parents bedroom was the better was there of the actually of the living you know with my parents bathroom again they call the entry there was all around me entry hall which is big and then in the other part of the house leading from the NGO was were two bathrooms and another room fully made in the kitchen and we two balconies one was in the dining room that overlooked the street they one was in the back that overlooked the dockyard the back yeah so there was a big place oh yeah yeah maybe they maybe we had the holidays sometimes we had to say about monstrous my aunt Ida Seder we didn't celebrate Christmas and I was a Jewish friend okay the Christmas tree so I came home and they said I wanted a Christmas tree yeah my dad said no forget it very big all right in the Christmas trees a girlfriend I refer that good - yeah Christmas we are the Christmas play at school and I was selected to be a knight there comes to the nativity scene and vows to the baby Jesus the reason I was like there's a night because I could I guess we could afford to get me the costume service that was my dad said no you're not gonna be in the play you wouldn't allow me to be any play I cried because I would be in the play so sorry I said then I don't have to say anything just I'm just gonna be there it's not a speaking part make it so how much I wanted to be in the play I don't bow never supposed to bow and because we saying all the carols and when they had religion lessons Bible is easy and it is your toes there we just one year we had a rabbi come in and talk to us but we didn't like it afraid of the look I knew that for this then we were into contrary to the rabbi's you know she went to that school we're all very assimilated otherwise we'd probably go to the girls gymnasium in fact when they decided to go fair going to the Jersey Museum and writing learning how to write Hebrew my parents wanted to transfer me there was with Nicholas already Rosie's agree and my parents said mergers than before and they wanted to dress for me but I did not want to because I didn't I didn't know Hebrew and I was I would have to certainly beginning and so I need my friends so I decide I didn't want to do that [Music] what did you understand about that moment in time if you could obviously even your family yeah I could not imagine maybe you know that was going on but birth we would face even though there is a day seventies I I just could not could not every and in fact my mama was so smart early she did wonder maybe she did that late because my aunt and uncle in England in my and my dad sisters kept writing to us don't you think about leaving why don't you leave you know but life was so good life actually was good you know because we had everything my dad was making good day you know was making money and that it was happy with their friends and we just had such a actually you know good time in spite of everything with a ribbon our own community yep it was hard to leave to be very beautiful home many there we had beautiful summer vacations [Music] one time I did took me on a business trip to Vienna there was of course before you today an exit rear end siren word I was so proud of that one with me as my guest companion to Vienna he took me to the discarded Park and what they have the big ferris wheel it was the first practice I think it's called I wrote on that face Rio and that took me shopping yeah I remember he brought me to redo it let me a little pin and as I turned around it's really V you I saw the shopkeeper who sodas it was a very nice store on there was this like a Fifth Avenue they forgot their neighbor this it's a guarantee and the salesgirl attended us every other hour after we made the purchase of course it was I connected in the Senators with Catholicism because Poland was all Catholic in Vienna and Austria was very much government so I always thought their cats yeah who persecuted us or the Catholics when I accused United States I could not believe that the Catholics were actually persecuted here alright I thought I was going to school already mr. Binney second third week I found out that Jesus was Jewish and I couldn't believe it and I came home and I said no it's not true that Jesus was Jewish yes this is well how come the eighties when I was really I could not believe it it was like such a surprise for me and how did you sense that they hated you well the attitude you know they talked about jay-z don't talk about the Jew u.s. customs I do you know there was not a complimentary or you know this fact that there was I mean there's always exceptions for the role and a maybe said look the president Joseph Pilsudski I don't he was not when he was in power thanks Willa that's better for the Jews that doesn't guide that's what I wrote this for everybody everybody thought they were so good that baby said it in my heart did so much no it was just yeah I knew that he was a good guy maybe I heard the adults talk about him I'm a that posed media and he was going to fall him visit I don't know how this goat came about but I told him the runtime I know this poem about this is key and he said do you still have it in the Eric that by golly I will and I remember the whole thing said rolled it down for you and he loved it you know so many years later he took it with him I cannot be you know they spotted a couple years ago you sure he brought me some polish candy he said this is for the poem in young when I talked about writing I did I did write this story and the story was actually about this boy that I had lived at there was my neighbor and I really liked him but then I then he turned out that he didn't love Jews and then I wrote this story and I send it to the Jewish newspaper I think it was like a year for young people paper and I won first prize and the prize was the book Oliver Twist by Dickens I didn't know my paternal grandfather will do Israel and I was a little girl when I was like 2 or 3 to Palestine and he was very literate educated man he read English he was a linguist and a facility for languages suit so he dressed they did Shakespeare inter polish I don't know if it was father's brother on his own he did that very educated a nice man and he died in Palestine and he's grave he's right until a little of Tel Aviv in a little cemetery were they buried at their time writers and politicians and who journeys now it's close it's a very small Cemetery it's almost like a museum and I'm very proud that is there and we keep up his grave in fact a cousin of mine my father say she goes to Perth to Israel every year and she attends to his grave and on his grave we also engraved besides his name my father's name my brother's name and and he's daughter's name who passed everyone who was a Holocaust survivor who did this regarding other guys everyday I know where the girls are so we put their names with the grandfather's name yeah and they not your no grandfather who escaped polling in the last minute in 39 he's also he and my grandma are also buried in Israel in how long no they don't bury any more Intel that's already cemeteries that I know so that's right it's what's clothing usually is you know what it means and no my parents my parents didn't speak English at all I'm actually my dad you got to spirit but it didn't speak English so I grew up knowing no English at all which actually through the years of my surviving as a Gentile later it helped me because I wasn't going to speak in a dream or anything right now I was sleeping with haven't had the girls they survived and they survived the war in Palestine and they had their house that they build an apartment house and I don't know if you know tel Aviv but he chose a lot and now all the big hotels across the street from our house so he was very knowing very good real estate person actually other man's factory when I was little in also my grandfather men's shirts and when I were first working he was got a contract from the Army so a lot of money in his little factory made shirts and after the war he closed it and he started buying real estate and he owned a lot of real estate and and after the war my mother went back to the government and she showed the documents you know that we owe this we own this property there was about six or seven big apartment houses and we never know not a penny worth it was stored that's right nothing we didn't get any restitution anything from really ghetto look okay we're gonna get out first away I told you that they we could you couldn't leave it it we could have left maybe in 38 or 37 well my head's asking my father to leave you know about really beneath because things are too great anyway in the ghetto we lived with my aunt and uncle in there son and you know where they are pregnant people were living like 20 20 B words over a room or something they were so compressed it's really lucky you know we just had the family and the worst part was they were calling the Germans would come the German soldiers the Gestapo and everybody out and everybody had to go out into the courtyard the the courtyard and then they would make a selection right left right left one side was good when if people were strong and younger and one was for older people and children may get I think wasn't on the day the right time that I remember and they met any the German the soldier motions my mother to run Frank and my brother and me to another side and my mother knew that there was nothing good side and she stepdad she dared to step out of the German soldier and she said in German this by kinder they said my children they are coming with me and I guess he was so stunned but he never liked me just motionless to her side after he was over oh all the neighbours good so man in my mom says you endangered all of us about your nerve your head no she saved their noise there was my mother she was amazing then one day we had neither one of those selections and I guess my uncle try to help someone and they shot him right there in front of us his wife he sang and he was shot Hank was wonderful so my mother loved her first brother hey other brother escaped to Russia and they said be offended to Siberia your centre tribuna and we never heard from you and it's right in the children the children very Caribbean together let me get that thing so more and more we had be some selections and sometimes the Germans were face you're going to work there brother we got news what was going somewhere we good news what was going on so my mother decided yeah we have to that the only way out was to escape the ghetto and she bought a lotta money for false documents she talked to a priest and they had people who died Gentiles who died and who had their birth certificates in the ages corresponded to my age my dad so we got false passports first false birth certificates for all of us and false documents so my name was a Nebraska and there was beloved to a girl the same age as I was this document now she arranged for places to us for places to us to stay with her false password she left together with the workforce and then she just kind of escaped in one into the other part of also talk to our former maid and asked her if she would hold me she would keep my brother and they would pay for him to do that and she agreed she was married and yeah so my brother left he escaped with the help of another through the hole would that be new earth in the wall and us there one day but no they went to see him well she was working or finding a place for me but one time she went to seeing and my brother was in there it turned out that her husband told everybody yeah keeping a Jewish child the Germans came [Music] God my brother and he said mounted juries but he was circumcised you're circumcised the pose Ronettes are concerned and the turkey marry he didn't know what happened to him let me get found out mother told us he lost all will to live he didn't want it anymore there's no other said to me now you have to go you have to go you have no either gonna kill you here you say and I was afraid they would look what happened to my brother I don't want I want to stay with dead no you have to go I have a place for you and she found me a place with a giant tire couple and they had a little baby and I was supposed to be my reason for being was being a nanny to the baby a little apartment and my mother practically dragged me out of there out of the ghetto I didn't want to leave she said you have to and so I stayed with this couple they didn't know that she was my mother they thought she was a friend of my mother who is doing that because she was my mother's best friend they said she was didn't know she was Jewish and I say they discover that my dad would not come out of the ghetto and my mother is she had a place so she was working for some charity dramatic you know she did something for this couple where she was fake so but nothing I were out of the ghetto my brother was already gone we didn't know where am i did staying again he my brother was gone he just didn't wanna do anything I say there were this couple in one day I said looked out the window and as service smoke I said what is that she said together is from their burning yeah the uprising in the ghetto it was good and I searched for my window how'd they get it was Brittany I didn't know that after the war on the same street where I was staying and I was headed a little baby that the couple read and I was reading the stroller every Moni taking her for a walk the baby there was a place but a block away from me well there was like a greenhouse and I didn't know anything and after the war I found out that underneath that greenhouse was a bunker and in that bunker there was 30 or 35 Jewish people hiding and this polish guy was taking care of it and they slept all day and at night they would go out that night they age and did whatever they had to do and they stayed there and my girlfriend with whom I went to school was hiding there two days before they found that place the Germans found a trace she left she and she had a boyfriend she had an abortion left the place the Germans came and shut everybody including the the Polish guy who had the read the place she wrote a little booklet because the hiding place but at the time I didn't even know it there was like a block away from me on the same street that I was hiding they were had that over 30 people already under the under the greenhouse yeah different world then one day my people I was straight with said you know we are in the underground and it's very dangerous here we have to leave and I said oh my mother one day my mother came he said to me they are suspecting me that and somebody's following me samples are following me see the policy they said I know the Jew who is Heidi they would get money for that so they wanted exception there was a black my own assertion it is somebody some couple poles are following me and I know they're gonna give me to the police but here is the money that is hided and and whatever happens remember your parents your grandparents are in Israel in Paris write your answers in Palestine your engine England if you survive the war that's where you you go you know the addresses that's where you go this is it so she left and then I didn't see her for a couple of weeks so I knew because she used to come and visit me they didn't know she was my mom and then they said they were leaving I said what's the what am I gonna do says I don't just I don't know she says where's your lady there comes visit you said oh no she doesn't come and he left they took all the furniture he took everything the last couple books and I was all alone in his apartment oh I said to that well can i buy this apartment from you can I give you some manifolds and he said yes so I bought the apartments from them and I stayed there when and I was afraid to go out I was afraid to do anything I just stayed there and I this is a time today how do you remember what I did I was all alone I didn't have a soul in the whole world and I stayed there and remember they left one of the books they left was Shakespeare play and I was reading Hamlet to be or not to be that is the question I wanted to commit suicide but I didn't know how you know what to do we had nothing it was nothing left and maybe they left one little frying pan or pot or something no furniture I slept on the floor and I was really I wanted to give myself up to the Germans and then it's not that I didn't want to live I didn't need anyone yeah it's like two weeks maybe three weeks I hear a knock on the door and I said oh now they came for me I open the door there's my mom she said I just want to tell you I'm alive I will come back I said no no come in she's not I don't want them to see me back there that moment she said no no no don't worry and I pulled there in she didn't know that these people live they did she could she don't play so stay here they apartment for her and she came in she was in prison all this time on the park prison which was a big prison enough I were strong and they examine her trying to find out if she was Jewish looks they accuse it and she proved it she was to them that she was an Aryan and not only dad but she got a little note saying this woman was examining please let her pass so she had a pass and of course you know they I don't know if you know where the concierge role of the conspirators in every apartment building they know everything because serious is Danny watches whoever and my mother went down she said I bought this apartment I'm gonna be living and this lady that's this young girl that's there she's um she's gonna be my mate she's gonna be my maid she's my maid and it was Rio for God they tell you that the day my mother came back I went out first day because it was spring there was beautiful spring day and I went to the open market because I don't think I ate for two weeks and I bought two steaks that brothers Medicaid we had the best Denari in the toothpaste I was like mental telepathy you look yay first day I went out and they bought some food real okay my mother was trying to connect with me and she got a job I did it's a school that is like a if your next thing is a secretary you know leave it to her she yeah and she thought I should also go out and get a job so I started working on this got a job on these streetcars but it wasn't very good because I was checking the tickets because too many people saw me and my mother didn't so right away I started attracting people that I didn't want to attract them some of the poles too especially these two men started following me I would go to it to a church the wait for them to meet I came out of the church and they got worse and worse one day they robbed us he came a day when Daisy said to me yeah and my mother said we have to report this because if we don't report the robbery it's gonna be suspicious so we so we had to police can report it it was so dangerous but one day they said this you look a lot like this lady you're living with and we think we're both Jewish and I knew I had I knew I had to do something get out because they were they were making my life hell so I heard that they you could enroll in a forced labor in Germany and that's a last resort I went to this office where they did there and there was kinda danger because there's another place where they you know called juice but I said I wanted to labor and they said ok and the next day they send me to Germany to Berlin and they said just be said goodbye to my mother she said be careful don't ever anyone you're careful and I was in this pretty nice camp for girls but they were all Polish girls it was a camp where we went to work for a factory called Ostrom their care is sort of similar to GE during the war needed other things you and I was a drug theory so I was fooling wire through industrial diamonds it was a little machine and I just put a very very thin oil so there was in hard world it was just frustrating the other girls were stronger they big wire you know heavy there was very dodgy work no I was much like I was given three like work and the anti-semitism Eung those girls who are mostly they were all black peasant girls farmers in very primitive and so I was being from also dates are there was different I was the day they thought I was different because I was from also and at night I would listen to their stories how they are father the father found some Jews hiding their barn or they call the Germans I once said he had the fork and he's big fork and he got the Jew in the fog and the Germans among the primitive pose you were really something one of the girls was pregnant king of all the people there was a hundred girls and we slept off in a big dorm on the cards she said she wanted me to be the godmother of the baby of all the girls and I wanted to get out of it because I didn't know what to do you know and I didn't want to do it right but if she knew this you think that a Jewish person then the bombing started the era I started to bomb the Berlin okay because I was not afraid of the bombs so we all had to go down to the shelter and I didn't see that going to the okay you know what and I was tired so I stayed covered in my several in my head I'm afraid in my card came commanded make tours and I guess he under the covers are covering anything you did this again and you're getting out of here so I read through the shaft on the neck and that's right when I worked in the factory I had to take a subway to come home and I was working night shift or day she switched right I recognize you I would take the subway and that was alone and go all the way down to where we where our camp was actually camp was in a book above the river and in the forest kind of summe very pretty again so I would take the subway and get off and then walk through the woods in the night I wasn't afraid along the river to go to the camp and actually after the ghetto it was like it was like paradise compared mean here I get to Germany and it was really so much better the Germans couldn't tell me that was Jewish the poles could tell the service couldn't infinities and aggravating he kept calm and nonsense with me if all the poles were like you blue and they have anything against the poles I don't know why you sir good because I try to be just like them well we're a we're bummed out yeah perfect know what time it was there was a mass-scale puzzle and this man was Dutch and he got away no true good as bad as appose he asked me he says I have tickets to their up how would you like to go to the Opera I couldn't believe it I said okay they went to the Opera or game anyway we were bummed out if we had to move so we moved to Dresden what iris oh he was no no well he was very nice but he was he was older yeah hmm I think he listened to the radio too which was illegal foreign station at the ecosphere Oh God so news like he was the one who told me the Roosevelt day you know they cried because I thought the world was never in though for some rich look then I found daddy he was not as good as that of you well anyway and we moved to Dresden and injuries in our shop yeah where we worked was in the K Akkad's cuz there were mountains and in the mountain caves used to be a brewery where they made yeah but it was transformed into this shop for the awesome and so we worked they were completely safe there because it was in the mountain gave you talk about the Drazen you mean when I moved from Berlin okay we were bombed and early now camp was in both the downtown Berliners Obama Eddie and the work place was bombed out in fact this we spend the winter cleaning bricks instead of working there was nothing there was no place you know he was all bummed out Berlin was just a pile of rubble so they transferred us to Drai's it yeah was I was there in 40 see the 43 are left in August of 43 I was there for the 44 in 44 we went to Dresden and you've heard of the bombing of Dresden cold funny good wrote the book what was it called yeah the hours we were I was there during that bombing but I was it works I was in a cave so we were completely safe and the German some of the Germans from town were banging on the huge doors that were behind which the cables four men would not was German would not open the door because of the Argosy fact we wouldn't have enough oxygen if we open it so he didn't open the door and we were there completely safe and survived the and we but we heard the we you know of the bombs all night the next morning we went out and it was like a mass Nagasaki must have look like they do here is you know it was all like a fox and was in the air the air was like a desert look like a desert like a storm in the desert with the sand blows over you couldn't even see anything it was fog it was I think it was maple and bombs and I started walking it looks little but he was working anything we started walking and he was and I saw all you know dead lying on the street 80,000 people humongous remember a huge number it was awful yes awful nothing we resumed our you know if your why resumed our work one day the camp come in and called me and he said you know going to work today because someone is here who wants to talk to you and it he's from also another myself so I was to talk to you mean it's it's really scaring me and this guy the German came and he had civilian clothes and he said I am understand yeah you have a lot of friends here and you know what people talk about and I want you to report me if you know that somebody is a listen to the radio for a radio or has some news or anything too suspicious you are to report to me and I said again don't do that because you know people don't like me and they don't confine me me and you know he says you know I get very sick you can come and I said you'll be the best person to do it because people talk to you and then you know everybody and he gave me a gate around the rule gate in the mountain somewhere to meeting with all this information there was just before that bombing happened and after the bombing and never heard from him again look if I didn't know what I was gonna do I knew what I was gonna say nothing I mean I really didn't know anything besides I wouldn't even tell me if I knew it so there was but but I had a feeling that things were coming to an end you know cuz the guy said he was from Poland and you work they were he kind of insinuated they were coming back there not being that many words about infinity then one day we got up there were white sheets hanging out of the windows everywhere and the Russians came there was May 8th we were liberated the very last day of the war oh my god it was it was good then it was yeah I didn't know it was my mother was that I I was hoping there because you know anybody but I knew I didn't want to stay in the Russian zone so there are some Frenchman's fixing a bad note Mercedes and no gas but they fix it with briquettes at the back I don't know they didn't and he said we're going to American zone I said I speak English can I come with you and he said okay so we started I started with them almost right away after the Russians game dude we started for the American zone and the first truck we saw with American soldiers and we stopped we they told me to go out the car and I stopped the car the the truck this big drug with lot of sodium you know we want to go to American zone or French and uh and polish and could you give us some gas so they gave us gas and yeah we're entering as far as a displaced person stand it was a vine landed and so that's where we stopped and we ready to be there are two American soldiers standing in front and we said can we come in their office and share with us does that worked in there we do the office and they took me in and they said this captain sitting other captain sitting and Bobby and a desk and I said I'm here and I have something they want to tell you but I'm afraid to tell you I think I'm Jewish I didn't know where did you survive and he came out from his desk from behind these days we had easy and easy my name is Rosenberg I say and he says you speak English yet we need you here and that's where I started working as interpreter there he wasn't there very long there was another we have another captain I started working for amaura united nations relief in rehabilitation and military government and I still have the letters they wrote recommendations for my services in I stay there a year as a translator in his camp and oh of course I wrote right away I wrote to my grandparents ma and and if anybody named Israel Palestine and found out on another survive in my one over brother dr. rock over Joseph he survived and I was only granted I didn't grant you know is the only one that survived and my mother went to was in Poland and she stayed there till she found out I did she was able to find out what happened to my brother and father my father was in a concentration camp sir of Nicky and one day they brought my brother to the same camp from another kind of us I don't know why dad yes we're absolutely crazy or joy and he said oh I know everything's gonna be all right now there was good and there are gonna be together and then one day they told in children in the shadow when women survive I just yeah there's something that they didn't and the Americans gave me a nephew David so I can come I was gonna go to Palestine because my mother was gonna go there and parents were still alone then I had to go to Cyprus and the British held another camp on the Cyprus at that time you know they didn't they have a quota they didn't one of the other side was Indian camp again so I [Music] say that if I go to United States from there I probably be able to come go directly to that so I came here I came to United States because after David's room and when I came here my uncle in England had a lot of friends here who all did a lot of favors because he was the first one who left her a Germany and his friends who came later you know he helped them so much and they couldn't do anything for a me was very wealthy and so they said they so he called her mom's and my niece's in New York see what you can do for so they or I didn't call them but they finally when I call them after being in New York a week or so they didn't know what to do for me yesterday and I made a lifelong friends but you know I was very independent and they were so good you were too good to me so I decided to see a little bit of United States and go back to and go to Paris right there so they said no you can't leave and it's a call your answer I called my uncle he said I want to go to Seattle and look at the map I had the social worker there work with me and service for new Americans I said what do you wanna do is I want to go to Seattle this is far from New York as I can get they made me make a tour and then I think I will go to she said okay so I called my uncle and I said I want to go to Seattle because I want to go to university and I think I can I can do that in Seattle and he said it's a good idea you know education in my family so I took the train to Seattle and the the social worker notified the Jewish Family Service here and I think it was called something else anyway they said there's a young woman coming and there's somebody better meet her because she thinks she knows it all but she's just bug you so I already have a friend I'm gonna go to travel said get a place and if I can't work so what I got off the train you know and there's this big lady coming across dr. Mitri and as or know somebody else everybody felt like a mother to me between your feet and she says Irene I said yes I am Minnie and she grabbed me in their arms and she wouldn't let me go ever there was there was very dependence she got me she ended up a room for me with a Jewish family on the way home she on the way to the place she stopped for first papers she at first papers and in very nice boarding house I could say you know the next morning she came she came that night she came and they had a meeting of Jewish Federation and that was a speaker on the phone to me yeah the fundraiser and I was a speaker I guess I did okay for them and the next day she came in I got a job with the renowned Jewish Family Service he had if Alaska fur and I was working in the office and upstairs they were securio with the Alaskan with Indian artifact and dad say and the nature was for fur coat for your salad you know space everybody still wore fur coats and then she told me to go to Temple the Hirsch they had there it's they a dancers so you know was so happy you know so that's right after was 46 1946 and I met my husband there we new year the three months and the married be married 58 years till he passed away we have three sons three daughter-in-laws and four grandchildren and one great-grandchild they were wonderful family I'm so thankful to be here and my my family is everything to me and they're wonderful and I have a lot of good friends I'm just happy to be here and also now that I'm retired and I move from my home where I was for over 15 years I moved to the retirement home there are people from all over all over the world here from Africa from South America Jewish people and all kinds of religions and it's really like a micro micro cosmos and I am so glad to be here because I see how everybody can get along and how tall around each other that's the way it should be nobody hates the one nobody you just all live together and appreciate each other let me friends a little friends here way to live together with unity and understanding in love we have a program where you go Your Magnificence then means talk about yourself we see something sorry and get very emotional to talk about but maybe way my mom knew the good life after she was supposedly and she remarried she married a doctor who was from she knew before there were late see you realize and she went to him with something with a infected finger Sunday and he lost his way Mary in fact my mother wrote me later she said I met this man and we like each other he wants to marry me and I want to get married and they want to be alone that I won't I want your permission and I said my I was young you know I was already married oh my mother was he getting married she's she was 40 45 writing I said there the old lady will sit here David yes okay yes yes if you wanted well you turned out to be a wonderful man and she in my youngest and my mother came for the money for my son's Bar Mitzvah and my youngest son and when they say yes enough must speak you bring him to his bedside so with uncle gave a beautiful speech they met it surviving the other way he had quite a story to you know he's right he was chief of a sanatorium inertia he escaped to Russia but and his wife was German Jew it was she was a nurse they never baby boy and so he was a chief of a sanitarium there during the war after he escaped from Poland to Russia but the Germans came to Russia and when he came to his town he went to look for a hiding place and his wife already went through escaping from Germany once she was a nurse she took morphine and she gave the baby morphine and when he came back finally found a place to hide for them there about that live all day and he said in my in his first letter to me said I did that she did not left an emersion for me so he went into the partisans and there's a book about about the partisans she talked about him he said we were a bunch of wild right again when dr. Rocca became he brought humanity and civilization to this world rather group and he's filled in the partisans all through the war you know sleeping in the woods and and after the war he married this Jewish woman who would you marry me party van and she also loves salmon and husband and their two daughters in the inn in Israel and both daughters became doctors I think that doors are in their nature they became doctors whole colony of doctors when you were in the house and without any food and hiding hmm when you said that you weren't sure that you didn't want to live no what kept you my mother came to say goodbye didn't even look at the prison she's like mm you must survive she said you must sing right and you know what to go after you survive you have these addresses this is you have to you know you're gonna be the witness that's right she didn't think she was gonna get out of it she didn't you know didn't know she said you may survive there was and maybe they hope that the Chile survives because I told my mother could perform miracles but she did I wouldn't be here wasn't for her and by the way that this story is yet I told you that my medical a best friend who was also a lawyer and a judge later in Poland and she saved their little boy she's she survived and saved their little boy and she had a brother in the states who after the war sent for her brother just to the States and my mother said you know my best friend who you called auntie auntie Branca she lives in Corvallis Oregon she survived she there and I didn't know you know I was here I was already married but I didn't know anybody from home and I didn't have any of my relatives and I call it used to call her Auntie Blanca so I got in a car and I drove down there and found them in Corvallis Oregon that they were living and they're assumed name there Chevalier and others Jews because her brother-in-law said there was a lot of anti-semitism in Calvados and he a couple stalls one was a lady's story one was a cleaning place when I came in there was my ng Branca who was a judge in for standing over an ironing board and ink oh honey I could not believe it and I couldn't believe that she was living as as a Gentile and I said one guy you you survived the world for this to come to you to unite two United States and to hide again see you come to CLO she took the she took her Sam and he came to Seattle and she got a job at Providence Hospital working there and at least it wasn't standing over hot iron and the boy went to school you went to medical school he became a wonderful cardiologist and he married a big famiiy wonderful family and I and my doctor is his son now his son is my doctor and they are very happy and every time it's a holiday or something we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a week so I am so glad they did that so there was my mother's best friend Angie Branca she's gone of course at some point you have to internalize it does it not work like that when you're faced with sort of that the moment to be or not to be is yeah well I know say you know it's a good enough I didn't know how to do it hey you know I didn't want to be you know if I hear the morphine any idea no no jet really I didn't want to jump out the window yeah and I had no nothing I didn't know did you open my veins you know I didn't know what to do I didn't know how to you know I want to read you take a pill like my friend who was in the bunker that survived a bunker her dad was in the bunker he had a cyanide pill and when they came to shoot everyone he took the pill yeah there I went to look my auntie Brooke because she was that another thing but she was you know someone from my past a friend of mine but my mother's best friend and mother went from kindergarten so lost good but you know I people were so nice to me many you know she she colors my American mother and she went to meet my aunt in England she went to meet my FAC she went to Paris to Israel and my mother I told you that our house was in Tel Aviv right across from the hotels so she was in the hotel right across was 6:00 in the morning and she was with a headed lady she's she said where you going I'm gonna go meet Corolla Irene's mother she's a six in the morning I don't care and she went six o'clock she knocks I'm I'm wearing my mother's door and my mother saw these radiations the doctor is she said there was one of the tourists coming to her husband as a doctor you know because he had a little sign that said dr. Kaufman another doctor isn't here she said the doctor isn't here she's a did he come to see the doctor I came to see you Corolla a many Irene's American mother so people were in the silvers was so nice to me when I work there my first Thanksgiving I had there and max silver students my dad he gave me a way of the wedding and the wedding my wedding was in Minnie's house she the big house in the staircase and I came down the staircase and max silver Gainey was and you know everybody was so I didn't feel alone and of course my husband and my mother-in-law was a dear what's it dear could I tell you a little funny story and my husband asked his mother his mother I met a girl and I want you to have her over for dinner mom and you were like oh gosh she's from the old country like you so I came with my husband and the first thing she met this cute little lady and she says so you are from the old country yeah so you speak mommy lotion Irish I said no I'm sorry so you are from the old country they would speak it says it no i don't well she couldn't believe it anybody would come from it you know he's gonna cut off a little bit the next day I called up and I said mrs. Epstein this is Irene I want to thank you for the lovely dinner you made oh so nice of you to help me Jesus oh yeah Irene by the very vote was your last name again I say my last name is Ginsberg Jenna's work ah what a beautiful name because she didn't think I was Jewish how could I be Jewish but not speakeasy she came from a liver state Oh everybody's forgetting yet I said the first time I heard Ginsburg Oh such a beautiful name everybody was so nice to me I mean I really didn't feel alone in my husband's my husband for three brothers and two are already married and then the youngest brother got married and his wife is still alive and I love her and we are different she's not my sister I guess I like to get along with people one on one old man reports from connect I was oh I didn't tell you I went to university so when the kids were in junior high school my oldest I decided it was time for me to do something in education was you know so busy right I had my three kids within five years they never babies soon every the youngest one was in school oh yeah when do you W and I said I don't have my the because when I quit school I didn't quit school I was told I cannot go to school anymore and Paula didn't I neither the Germans came they just couldn't go to school and the school told me you're finished and I had two more years to go to finish high school so when we're in the ghetto my parents hired some private teachers but I never went to school together but here and there you know I was learning I get some teachers when it was possible at the end it was not possible then I went to a very good school and I had really good education basic education so when do you dare yes I didn't finish I told them my story I said but give me a test and see if I passed the test and they will refuse so then I went to Seattle U and said the same thing and they said ok and so the yamir test and I passed the test I qualified for two level you know subject to oh so I went three years did it in three years graduated summa laude I got my certificate there and then I taught languages and reading for 19 years well English and you know we are friendship learn in school and and then at the University I took French in a new German and took Spanish at the University I told you the English Danny I told you at the beginning English Danny yeah that's how I learned to speak English the beginners and then I took lessons private lessons yeah okay that blue and then also at the University I took it where the French are took at school and it was ours in France for a while yeah spend a month if I have pictures before I became to United States I was able to go for six weeks to my parents from United Nations Relief and from Andhra and then I took French it's at the University well first of all daily life in the camp you know nobody spoke English no one you know inputting school in Poland they taught French in high school they taught French Latin and Greek and the Latin days is very good you know for everything I still remember Gary I Sonia the visa imparted threat the goal is divided that Cesar goal is divided in three parts Alma nove economist I'm singing of I mean anything of it yeah anything else maybe just oh yeah after after I retired from school I already had a real estate crisis look I took it some time before so I started selling real estate for I was in real estate for 12 years testimony is you know it's about the past and what's happened but it's also about this present moment you've got you know your your grandchildren and your family yeah but also what's happening around us and I don't know if you have any reflections about what's happening around us here in this country these days in terms of what people think about in terms of the long tail of history and how well there's gonna be political don't know that well this is your testimony and I don't know oh I think there are countries going backwards because I don't like what's happening can you speak to xenophobia and the racism and these arising look tremendous rise in racism and inequality in wealth never get there many homeless tragedy I don't know what's gonna happen I guess we had other times where things were bad but it ain't exam but it seems to be global its global not just discriminate against but targeted for for destruction in the Elimination your whole community how well is you very bad about that it's it's even hard to talk about it because I get very depressed when I hear the news very depressed I don't know why I don't understand why such hatred hatred that's right feel good about this place because real said she you know you know the quarry yeah everybody's respected yeah yeah in May this half year that you know that from Africa it was coming we always hug each other in the resistance of you know we you care I sometimes think that that the new generation or the younger generation doesn't fully grasp what we've been hearing my generation from your generation in terms of the way history is you you know the tale of history mm-hmm and I wonder you know one of the questions that the center is asking as a separate project that they like to including exhibit is what do we have to tell the children I mean I think the testimony unto itself as an i as as bearing witness to the history is really but what people need to hear but it are there is there something in terms of the perspective you have about history that you think that maybe a younger generation can't possibly see maybe something that maybe you yourself mentioned when you were little you couldn't imagine what was about to happen no could you do you think it's it's crazy to extrapolate upon that moment and saying well this could be a devastating moment let's take a look how do you perceive this moment in time and well I hope that things will change for the better hey that's what I hope that people will yeah this is just the face then we're going through any may be free you know yeah you know in there and somebody who promotes these different values for everyone the people will follow I mean these things have to change and that's the only way I think you know the United face was always be linear and everybody follows us and now one of the countries down those presidents well Gary's follow Trump many doctors now and that's yeah not good I think that we need that if if we get some money and I hope we will get it hey woman hello yeah that could be kind of good FAFSA and things will change I've been through a change I feel like if I survive is like a miracle and so we can believe in miracles it's got it so you can stay that way we're gonna destroy ourselves it is fine that way we just have to the prince a British Prince canary ate that girl here's a good example for young people I'm just thinking there's no doubt that anti-semitism is it's always been there it's just under the carpet but right now there's a moment in time where to a country that well I don't doubt that you didn't have you know some negative experiences even here but to a country that has embraced you after all that you've lived through to see this happening I can only imagine what it must be like well I I get some page will experience and see you Duke you know that on the whole I don't feel that what if it were a yes you know I felt accepted I didn't feel the same way as I said in Poland and you know I had a lot of gender I was only doing like three than all my neighbors were my good friends and we shouldn't have happened you know in Poland I don't say that all the poles were dead but generally you know they were like the peasants you and they were not educated and they are they knows that Jews killed Christ that's it here I think it's more economics and you know just control vision just gonna throw that my rather than religion you have any roses when you hear that name yeah yeah I like a number it's a nice name lot of people here named Anna because he reminds me of there's more Anna ceiling Alison Doris's we must have like six six or seven Tennessee and one is from Germany yeah I like that girl she was first of all I think of and I was forever young and Irene Gainesville I mean absolutely she was my thing it is a nice thing everybody is kind of a berry tart dairy like cranberry type of thing and there'd be a Nebraska and now we have a famous name to Rose Ginsburg and I spell it almost the same be urg yeah another question which maybe is not a fair question because there's nothing we can do about being Jews where Jews for Jews yeah Oh another thing I'll tell you after the war my mother asked me from Israel if after all you went through you want to stay a Nebraska you don't want to go back to Jerusalem and be Jewish I would understand I would understand that I wrote back and I said you know it never even occurred to me I wanted so much to be with Jewish people that's right I wanted to do being Jewish community and have my Jewish friends again it's hard it's hard you're always afraid it's maybe a word or something it you betray you what's gonna happen discovered or something all the time yeah basically you know my my mother was a very positive person even in there and my uncle Joseph will married this woman after the war she lived like us and she aren't the only thing she could talk was our guys what she went through whether Fannie went through and she didn't even when I would tell her something my mother she would say no it wasn't like me I really you know and and she her kids to be in therapy because she uh she said if my husband ever shows that because I don't know what happened to him I will leave I will leave you there then they were afraid every time a patient came to see my uncle they thought maybe there was you know her husband that she and it was terrible my mother was very positive she survived and life is for the living and you have to make the best of it and he if you survive just you have to make the best of it especially so you were young you know when they told me is it we knew it you know we knew it I couldn't I be the one them to grow up with a fear or with a burden on their shoulders I told them as much as you know in in pieces it wasn't I didn't sit down and talk like I'm talking now yeah I wonder I wanted them to have a happy childhood and nothing feels different I think this one night and you we are different than anyone that to your grandchildren and your great grandchildren and the children and your family that you haven't yet met there are the things that you want to tell them that if they order some day go to the museum or log in online and watch this testimony in their lives the things you wish to tell your own family well first I would tell them how important the family is and to get along you know I see some parents and children who are estranged and I see how much they mean to me the nucleus the family nucleus number one you have to build up your family to be strong and to be loving to each other so many families were they don't have this relationship and that I don't think that I think is very detrimental to your ego into your personality to the way you treat others and I think that having this loving families we did anyway I try to bring my kids to I tell them to this day you know it's my greatest joy in life then you three guys get along so well with each other they're very loving the three boys are there and caring of each other and that really is a great joy to me let me talk to each other and the sister laws are friendly in fact you got me free dinner tonight and you know I tried to keep them together and you know that's I I went to my senses and I cooked it New Year's Hashanah dinner I cooked it for that and I took the great joy in it yeah I didn't it I will tell them first your family and then good friends that build of your family first anything it's most you have a good family you'll be good to others too I feel they're not bringing their my happy childhood and my strong you know loving parents but just had the influence on my whole life knowing they were there for me because I think that's very important if you'd like to offer names as part of this testimony there was silence if you'd like to kind of offer any any names that you want to be part of this testimony in memory of or in or just make you not for a kind of a moment of silence at the end here but would you like to share any names of people mention some need you me and my sister-in-law Muriel and the mention my kids things my own ascent Larry you're the firstborn and the cutest baby I ever saw the nurses with it everybody needs care in his hair when he was born in 88 and it was very good and then my second son Ronnie Ron who was a real mother Galatian he was a troublemaker but he was lovable as can be it's got the best personality still and my baby gave it was always my nominee in the present now there are wonderful new men to do you and Danny oh it worked and they were good fathers and and it's just wonderful one different voice three gorillas Rosie got [Music] involved with my 95th birthday did you hear what happened I mean 95th birthday they planned this huge party here for 60 people or more and a piano player coming here the video made normal afternoon and the morning of the party would there was an outage no like no heat nothing nothing there was dark and there was no way we could every party they'd not know nothing was working the generator broke so they had no like the whole place no he so I had to get up on the phone in the morning and call all my friends off in the family I had family comes from New York my granddaughter my niece from New York and my cousin from Florida all these three families and they were already here and we had to call it off so I will never forget my 93rd birthday so we had we just had the family over but all my friends I had to call her off so there was never forget about it so that never never never never forgotten never forget that nobody that's good he's filthy yeah so why did you agree to do this it's not it's not fun to go back and memories for you and by any stretch of the imagination you've already articulated how you have nightmares this is well why do this why do this for the museum why do this for your family why why do this for history mm-hmm yeah that's my question why speak so I think it was it's important to tell the story first of all history teaches a lot of things and I hope that future generation well studied it and get some insight into what happened and it should not ever happen again and they would take a lesson from this history I hope it'll be useful for the future generations and they're there we'll take an example example of how to not to act there were they were providing knowledge and insight and making better people by studying the history and seeing the outcome hoping for a better future not letting you slide into this terrible period again and I did this with the hope for better world not the heaven yesterday when I start talking it all comes back to me rushes and so I don't even know which which thing to say first because I have this rush of memories drinking you know so many things I mean little things that happen they couldn't didn't even talk about every day every minute counted to my survival I was afraid to talk in my suite because their dreams I had nightmares in here I was in his bedroom with hundred women young women and I was just begging for I didn't speak eaters yes I would you know same thing that was remember this huge that we had room dormitory there we had in Berlin and the big fireplace and and the other day at the other end and Hooters and we were all in their carts and the rats they were doing their dance around the fireplace the rats are just dancing the fire because it was cold it would freeze to death they had a big fire going in yeah they remember and then they would have the sirens and there was the bombings the airplanes coming the air eyes yeah well the battery I can't even see your face what so what do you think it was it okay I mean to the point no did you want me to say something like thank you to you for taping it just for a separate educational curriculum if you would like to do that I will pull up the questions I don't know I'm pretty sure that we covered all of the things this is yeah let's see here yeah it looks to me like we've covered everything so you know I think I'm just very thankful that you you're here today to to share this and that you did this so you're gonna be gone now so are they gonna get in touch with me or do I oh you gonna be going so you better get your needs okay let me know is right you know we can see yeah yeah absolutely and I'll speak with Julia and Richard's out of town for another month [Music]

Channel: Holocaust Center for Humanity

Views: 11,839

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Id: fwoSa1d90yU

Length: 142min 13sec (8533 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 20 2020