Interview With 'Whitey' Bulger’s Former FBI Handler John Connolly | Greater Boston

[Music] the US District Court in Boston has just finished up a hearing over the extent of the relationship between the FBI and Whitey buer Boston's notorious and Elusive organized crime figure who was himself an FBI informant former FBI agent John Connelly was Whitey bulger's Handler and Connelly is now accused of allowing buer and his associate Steve flemy to commit crimes possibly even murder in order to get information from them about the Italian mafia tonight former FBI agent Connelly speaks out but first a little history on this complex case in the 1950s Wy buer was arrested for numerous armed robberies and serve time in Alcatraz throughout the 70s and 80s buer rose from a soldier in the winter Hill Gang to one of the most powerful organized crime leaders in the Boston area described by Associates on the streets of South Boston as a murderer in a drug kingpin Bulger it seemed was Untouchable then in 1988 the Boston Globe broke a story that made it all come clear Woody buer and his associate Stevie The Rifleman flemy were high-ranking informants for the FBI at first the FBI denied it but the 20-year relationship was impossible to cover up for one thing buer and flemy were instrumental in bringing down the Italian Organized Crime Mob including Rhode Island's Raymond patriarcha at the heart of the matter is just what Boer and flemy got in return Boston college professor Robert Bloom says it's clear the FBI allowed the pair to continue their own criminal activities they turned their heads even though they knew he was involved in crimes and and by turning their heads he thought at least implicitly they were sanctioning his criminal activ the FBI denies that buer and flemy were promised protection but in 1995 after the relationship with the FBI had supposedly soured indictments were handed down on buer and flemy coincidentally buer skipped town and hasn't been heard from since former FBI agent John Connelly is here welcome thank you I have a few notes because this is like a road map to me and it's hard for me to follow along but I want to start by asking when was the last time you had Direct contact with Whitey Boler I'd say I had contact with him a good year before he was indicted at the beest of the FBI so in '94 sometime that would be a good guess about 94 and do you have any idea where he is now no I do not how hard would it be to find him or how hard do you think it is to find him well apparently it's pretty hard to find him he's not your average criminal he's very bright he's very disciplined and I would think that uh he has uh the discipline to to to lay low he doesn't would it be your guess your best guess that he's still in the country or some else I have no idea does do you think anybody in the FBI knows at this point no I don't believe they do I think there's a there's a good faith effort to catch them my opinion tell me what kinds of information Whitey buer and Stevie The Rifleman flimy were able to provide to you that was so valuable to the FBI that the FBI was willing to turn their heads on some of the crimes that they were doing well the FBI really didn't turn their heads uh uh flemy filed an affidavit in which he said that he was allowed to do anything but murder which meant gambling drugs anything but murder means I'm trying to be specific yes gambling drugs uh B robberies that was far too broad that was not the agreement are you saying that's untrue I don't agree with flem's uh assertion that he had the right to do anything but murder they had the right to conduct a gambling and a loone shacking business and collect rent from bookmakers with no violence and that decision was made by Jeremiah T Sullivan the head of the strike force it was Larry Saha testified to that in court that's the exact message he was given what kinds of information were they able to bring to the FBI that was so valuable as I said it before that they were willing to allow them to continue a lone sharking operation like what did they bring in well these were two uh highly placed assets of the bureau uh and you have to remember why they became assets of the bureau which was that they you you wanted to bring down the Italian we wanted to bring down the Italian mafia I mean the the mafia was the number one investigative priority of the FBI and uh and as such uh Baler and flamy were not on our investigative radar screens they were however at a sufficiently high level in their own organization to be able to laterally okay the mafia were they so well plugged in to the Angulo family the patriarcha family that they were able to get information on those people and bring it to the FBI that eventually led to their indictments well absolutely they were long-term sources of the FBI and they were that it's it's it's it's it's important to recognize why they became okay sources of the FBI they were targeted for elimination by the mafia by the Italian mafia by the Italian mafia and in the late 70s mid '70s and U did they come to you no uh I actually it appeared that there was going to be a gang war and they that they were going going to initiate it and I felt strongly that uh I could Stave off a game War should I reach out for these people and convince them not to go to war with the mafia because the mafia at that time had no intention of taking it as they say to the street with these people and I was able to convince them that they ought to do the same thing to the mafia that the mafia were doing to them and that is use their friends in law enforcement to whittle them down and who was ever left they would murder mhm they did it with the Joe babosa gang right and the mafia tipped their hand to these people they had some intelligence from inside the mafia themselves they were tipped off with Jerry and julo and Larry Zino's intentions were for them and based on that they then decided to play the same game it was a high stakes poker game is what it was did anyone in the Italian mafia suspect that Baler and flemy were informant for the FBI I don't believe so in in 1988 which is only 10 years ago seems like ancient history the Boston Globe first reported that buer and flemy were FBI informant and that has since been confirmed um it's now been reported that the head of the organized crime task force inside the FBI John Morris was one who tipped that's been reported I I don't know for myself that that's true I have to say that that he was the one who leaked that the Boston did he admitted it in court why why would he do that why would he let that information out well it was it was a an unconscionable Act of of of of treachery um there could be no other reason for leaking that to a news media to Jerry O'Neal of the of the globe with whom he had a long relationship by by the way I mean he collaborated with a on a book with Jerry O'Neal Jerry O'Neal and his partner Leah made money on John Mars Richard Lear from the globe yes mhm and in ' 888 it was it was to O'Neal that that he gave B's name as having a business relationship with the FBI and what was in it for John Morris at that point to out I believe I believe the judge asked the right question the judge asked him did did you believe that this would this could get him murdered him being Jim Bal murdered and he said yes I thought it could and he says and did you do it because of the money M and he denied we'll back up cuz it also came out in court that John Morris had accepted so-called loans a loan yeah a $7,000 loan which I guess was never repaid it was a $5,000 loan and and I thought it was seven there was another two that came he says that well all right I I can't nitpick the the details here a loan he got a loan details are important to me okay he got a loan that he he didn't have to repay so here's the FBI getting a loan from from the mafia I mean it it was it was an act of corruption he was a corrupt I believe the guy was the most corrupt agent in the history of the FBI so now why why does he have immunity in all of this that's a very good question and what is the answer the answer is here's somebody that put bombs on the people's cars took money from gangsters lied under the RO flunk polygraphic exams uh TI them off to to uh investigate and the prosecutors gave him immunity they denied it to me they're saying that you are a rogue FBI agent I have never heard any characterized as that well it was a quote out of the paper from from an unnamed Source faite thing not the fact of the matter is I why I don't understand why all these people have immunity anyway iy has immunity John Morris has immunity I had an unblemished record in the FBI I commended by every director in the FBI's history from J goova till the time I retired I had an unblemished record there's one reason why they don't want to give me immunity they are afraid of the truth the government is afraid of the truth when Mr popio profit to them what I was prepared prepared to say and what was that that was that for the most part I agreed with the case I had no trouble with the the induction ceremony portion of that case those are all my S sources mhm the Angulo case had nine sources five of them in line the second in the trilogy of cases that brought the Marb down was a Vanessa's case there were three sources all three were mine okay but we're confused about this I mean I understand the induction ceremony there was a an informant there and the Govern and the the case now says if there was an informant at that induction ceremony then they shouldn't have had the wire tap in there I understand that but what are you saying that they would be afraid of the truth I don't follow that indicted these people for gambling and loone shacking and they were allowed to do it it was a policy divised by Jerry o suiv from the strike force it was communicated to them on several occasions by John Morris and I communicated it to them by the way the important thing here is that I don't want immunity for any corrupt acts I don't need it I wouldn't take it I I only needed for the narrow issue of of authoriz saying that the government doesn't want to accept the fact that illegal activity was indeed condoned that was the deal and they're they're denying that does anyone really believe that that that Mr Baler and Mr flemy would survive the FBI for 20 years unless we intended I believe it right now I think he's still unless we intended to to for them to survive well that's what most people believe right now and and it would be hard for you or anyone to convince us of otherwise well I don't I I I don't know right now I do not believe they're protecting him the the other thing is that one of the great Curiosities in all of this and I know you're from South Boston we want to know what the relationship was if any with Billy buer how closely connected he was with uh his brother whether he knew that his brother was an FBI informant did he know that the simple answer is he knew nothing about it and his brother wanted it that way that was at his decision when we first had the relationship that business relationship you don't think he ever told them I don't think he ever told them were you close to uh the former Senate par sen at the time I'm still I've always been a friend of his and remained so to this day and there was nothing that was ever said about the relationship never you know those two worlds never intersected can you understand why these kinds of tales make people cynical about our government or why it feeds the paranoia frankly of the the paramilitary and thinking that you know the government is is all out to get us and that they're really the bad guys and they're the good guys well the government is you know the government you can't you can't paint the entire government with the brush of a few people well this is the FBI I agree and and you know like any other organization they had their problems and uh and but I mean I thought we were men a principle we make an we make a deal with these people who whose lives were placed in Jeopardy uh by the FBI when when we can you understand why people wouldn't appreciate the fact that you were making a deal with them they want you to bring them all down well we want but that's the business we were in you have to understand we're going to like any other business you're going to prioritize your resources you're going to use the resources you had to to to accomplish what your mission is our mission was to take out the Mafia the mafia had organizational structure they had rules they had regulations I mean they took an oath to kill to leave their mother's ever aware of a case where there was a murder committed by Whitey Boer or Steve Fleming wasn't it your obligation as a la were you ever aware of any no I never I mean these guys were sources of mine they're not going to sit down and tell me that from the very beginning you it's understood did you ever ask him if they killed anybody well why would I do that he was a source I mean the top Echelon criminal informant program the reason that a lot of these having difficult with this right now is it's in conflict with the attorney general guidelines it doesn't make any sense and that's one thing that has emerged from these hearings the top Echelon criminal inic program was geared towards developing top Echelon Mobsters primarily mafia members who have who by definition have all killed at least once the bottom line is our mission was to take out a mafia family and we accomplished it we took out 42 members and Associate members all of whom I would I would guess have killed at least five people directly or indirectly so you're talking about people have killed maybe 200 people and we took them out okay using a gang of two if balger and flemy were hit by lightning there was no went to Hill Gang all right it's a complex case I could go on more I'm sorry that we didn't have a little bit more time we probably should have taken a little bit John Connelly thank you for being with us tonight thank you for having

Channel: GBH News

Views: 313,412

Keywords: Boston, Massachusetts, WGBH, Greater Boston, Whitey Bulger, Emily Rooney, John Connolly, FBI, Crime, True Crime, Mobster, Mob

Id: D1Z5abJyGfI

Length: 15min 26sec (926 seconds)

Published: Wed May 28 2014