Indonesia's Prabowo: Victory, controversies and hopes | Talk to Al Jazeera

always I'm Jessica Washington in jakata after a controversial presidential campaign and a contested Victory PR subianto is set to lead Indonesia Southeast Asia's largest economy a diverse Nation with more than 1,300 ethnic groups at 72 cao's career in Indonesian politics is longstanding he served as a special forces Commander during General sar's regime a period marked by allegations of corruption and human rights abuses his military career ended when a military ethics Council discharged him after which he spent time in Exile in Jordan Upon returning prau significantly reformed His Image he was a presidential candidate twice before and has served as the Minister of Defense under the outgoing president Joko wodo since 2019 in this edition of talk to Al jaaz we take you to a ranch just outside the Indonesian capital home to president-elect brao sandoo as he prepares to take the Reigns of power join us to explore the complexities of his past the promises of his present and the hopes for his future and the future of this vibrant and diverse Nation the president- elect of Indonesia krao subianto talks to aler brao Santo president-elect of Indonesia thank you for talking to us let's begin with talking about the election a a landslide victory for you almost 60% of the votes victory in 30 out of 32 provinces certainly result that any candidate would have been happy with what made the difference this time because you've run for president before twice why do you think your message appealed to voters this year I think a combination of factors maybe uh precisely because I ran twice before I think my message my narrative my my principles uh reached the people and this time of course I have to say that I felt uh that I basically uh became part of the incumbent team so I think that also U was a great Factor that's something that many observers have talked about and they've called it this jakoi effect the effect of your perceived closeness with the president and how that may have boosted your chances what do you make of that well if you know uh president joov Doo has what now 82 83% favorable rating in the uh public opinion polls and of course uh the people felt his commitment to bring uh betterment to the people's uh conditions especially the poor so yes I think I that jooi effect uh really helped me also you sir have run against President jooi twice you were political Rivals was there a genuine change of mind on your part to that allowed you to work more closely with him you know uh traditionally in Indonesian Politics the winner wants to make sure that his rifle doesn't uh ever reemerge right but this time he I think he he understood that I was committed to the betterment of the indan people especially the poor and I think basically which I found out later he did he does have the same values as I do what are those values I think the value as a as a son of Indonesia we want our people to live a a dignified life and uh poverty is not dignified an independent country their people must live uh with a Basics you know uh they cannot live in poverty we'll talk about poverty in a moment you mentioned sons of Indonesia and of course one son who has really been in Focus during this whole campaign is your running meet Gibran rakab raka the country's next vice president a controversial pick certainly in the early St of the campaign what does he bring to the table apart from being president Joko Doo's son we cannot take uh the fact that he's a son of President jooi is not an important factor but jooi has 82% favorable rate thing right is there a quality that the new vice president will will bring to the job perhaps his youth might be a positive factor I think that's also very important factor as you know uh I think it's more than 52% of our voters are young yes more than 63 million between 17 and 30 right in a three candidate race what was the main challenge in getting your message across to those young voters I think I had the advantage because you know the young they are more concerned about jobs MH because that's their future they're concerned about education they're concerned about jobs they concerned about equal opportunities so would you dispute perhaps there were some criticisms of your campaign that there were there was some gimmicks with the the cartoons and the dances that it actually wasn't about that it was about the substance that appealed to young people oh you know gimmicks are gimmicks right I mean you can have gimmicks and be a clown right you can dance all you want and you become a buffoon or you become uh first I think is the message and uh the young in this age of social media the information revolution you know they they get on very fast and I think one thing about the young they they see they see very fast who is genuine and who is acting MH so I think I got the advantage there because you know the promises of your potential policies rather than the style of the campaign yeah not only promises they see promises uh make sense or not right M promises make sense promises solve problems or not I think I think that's the there was also a criticism made during campaign season before election day that perhaps your your team had an unfair Advantage by means of support from the state by by means of potential misuse of social Aid that was something that your opponents repeated but also some Civil Society organizations does that affect how you perceive the victory in any way at all well you know acusations are easily made but when the scrutiny is done correctly intensively I mean if you will find out that the those accusations are very very very uh empty and very uh I would say very uh selfish accusations do you deny there was any conversation about this use of social Aid during the campaign season social Aid is there in our budget yes for many many years right it was approved by all parties in Parliament so what and then can you imagine oh about this aid social assistance right by the way in outside Indonesia we have a large community of of Indonesians living abroad Malaysia Hong Kong Singapore the Middle East and I won by 63% and there was not one social assistance package s and I won by 63% MH right M and all these social assistance were given in all provinces and I lost in two of them mhm would you be looking to work with the people who opposed you in the election I willing to work with anybody for the good of the country let's talk about some of the the policies that we can expect and one of the key projects initiated by President Joo woto is this new capital project in East kalimantan does this project have your full 100% support this idea of moving the capital was actually for many many many years since even our first president president sukaro and uh there was always this move that this Capital should be more Central position and also that we have problems actually in Jakarta Jakarta is uh I think uh already Way Beyond the the capacity of the area to to support a population of 20 25 million people uh we have to invest more to Safe Jakarta how will you address the concerns about how this project may affect the indigenous communities there are some uh NOS that estimate some 20,000 indigenous people may have to be relocated to make way for infrastructure for the capital what can be done for them the interest the security and the future of all the indigenous people are highest priority in my in my view we have to protect them we have to secure uh their livelihood and we have to do a lot of uh planning and research that we do not displace too many people and if we do we must um compensate and we have to uh uh guarantee their well-being because this is a theme that comes up not only in terms of the new capital but whenever there are major development projects for example the Mandela circuit lombok there are indigenous communities who feel they don't receive the benefits of these major infrastructure yeah I would like to repeat that in my in my life in my commitment that I will defend the the the interest of my people indigenous people included mhm we we will we will defend their their my my my strongest support are from from those who are weak you've proposed many strategies to help low-income households in particular but a key promise made during the campaign and in fact the one that was all over the posters in the leadup to the election was this free lunch program for school children some more than 80 million people will receive this free lunch and free milk what is the reason that that program yeah I think free meal program is is uh is very urgent and it's uh we have to take uh urgent measures and uh the children of Indonesia are our future I think this is very strategic for the future of Indonesia the cost has been raised as a potential barrier that in the first year this could cost perhaps s billion dollar I understand the government is already looking at how how to fund this program but to you that's not a concern to me that's not a concern I've studied the problems I've studied where we can save and where we can reallocate I'm very I'm very convinced the aim of this project is to improve the quality of Education that Indonesian children receive what do you see as the main not only qu to to to help them in their health in their Fitness you know the stunting of Indonesia children is very I would say very saddening so this program is the intersection of health education a variety of aims but one aim the survival of the future of Indonesia you know we have started pilot projects already 3 months we've started not many but we've started in is Indonesia we started in Canton and uh everybody report course after 2 3 months the children are more lively attendance rate increase you know now they they know when they come to school there's there's a lunch or there's a meal so we are very optimistic about let's take a look at the situation in eastern Indonesia in Papa we have seen incidents of torture human rights abuses carried out by Security Forces against indigenous papin there was a recent incident where a man was put in a barrel and tortured by security Personnel when you see those incidents what is your reaction uh you know we are the for largest population in the world we are the SES of Europe right we have many incidents I'm sure there are violations but you compare what's happening in many parts of the world you know I'm not defending it we we will take we have taken I think our our record we have taken uh measures to punish our uh Security Forces who have violated but if you compare with the size of Indonesia with the size of the population the incident seem to be concentrated though in in Papa rather than throughout the country how do you know that have you been there or did you go there well it's very difficult actually for foreign media to to enter Papa you talk Papa as if I'm not defending all incidents we will uh deal with seriously but you know your question a bit one-sided why don't you open the YouTube on the channels of of these uh so-called Papua independence movement on their Channel you can see how they mistreat their own people so would that be ensuring the security of the situation in Papa how can that be done look Indonesia is not only Power we will ensure security all over Indonesia right and our approach is always to negotiate you know uh these uh terrorists Who attack their own people who attack schools burn uh kill civilians you talk about one incident yes do you know that they they killed workers on the road yes I know that there are that's about how how many workers they killed unarmed civilian work how many workers they killed two three four there have been many incidents there have been many incidents I'm saying civilians they carry out acts of terrorism they they uh what do you call it took a hostage which they have not reled an unarmed foreign civilian mhm right yes where is the indignation from from the NOS from the Foreign Press no I think perhaps the indignation is is for both sides just for for people to to live safely Mr president-elect and oh yeah we will secure the safety of our people they've been attacking civilians many many times and you guys don't report them well well we try to report the the full story it's there they they propagate it there is a perception from some human rights groups in Indonesia that perhaps what the situation needs is less militarization this our national territory we we are not Guided by NOS we will be guided by our national interest there was a a an earlier uh perhaps not a commitment but a a something like a promise that the jakoi administration would allow some observers from the UN to enter Papa to to take a look at the situation but that visit did not happen do you see that as something that that should happen so that perhaps there can be fewer questions about what is going on I will study the situation I will study the situation and perhaps a visit could take place under your Administration I will study the situation but as I said uh we will think about our national interest Indonesia is one of the largest democracies in the world and we just had a very spirited Lively election campaign and it was quite you know it's quite wonderful to see how how generally smoothly everything goes in a country of this size how do we ensure that the Democratic freedoms of Indonesia Asians are protected the democratic system is the interest of the unan people right the inan people want a democratic system political power comes from the people we go we rule we govern with the consent of the people and it's it's our people who decide MH right we are not going to be determined by uh for foreign uh narratives right foreign uh interpretation of what democracy should look like do you think that those interpretations when there are these reports that say there is democratic backsliding in Indonesia is that a misinterpretation from your perspective of course what backsliding mhm what backsliding we have how many how many years of peaceful transfer of of government mhm how many Governors have been changed how many district Battis have been changed we have a living and vibrant democracy are we satisfied no MH is there corruption yes that's our problem and we have to deal with it democra is messy MH democracy is tiring but it's the only it's the best system of politics what is the alternative why do I get involved in four general elections what have you learned from taking part in all those elections it's strenuous it's tiring but yeah that's what the people want the people want a choice but I do believe that democracy is in danger in everywhere but especially India is in danger because of uh because of corruption because of uh the concentration of wealth there is a segment of the population Mr president-elect that has expressed some concern on the basis of not your time as defense minister but your past in the military that they have concerns about about that and accountability how would you ensure that they also feel that you are a president for them you talk about democracy the people have decided full stop mhm what concerns you know in every election they will try to look for this weakness and that weakness and this and that and if I was a general I'm a proud General I serve my people serve my country I risk my life for my people I've been accused of so many things is called demonization MH so it that is called character assassination is part of the tools of politics so I I faced that I risked that M Acquisitions are completely uh insulting and very false but that's that's the name of the game for the people who who didn't vote for you what would your message be to them I told them that uh they will see mhm I'm a man of my word I will prove to them right and if you if you study the social media many of the have realized mhm so democracy elections there will be uh hard talk there will be harsh criticism that's part of democracy fine but in the end I I fail the Mandate I will work for my people even those who do not vote for me I will I will defend them let's move on to foreign policy engine has a long history of being non-aligned charting a middle path I believe one of the founding fathers referred to it as rowing between two reefs how much of a priority is this for you I I I said many times that this our tradition this our history that uh we do not want to belong to any blocks we do want to belong especially military alliances uh our guiding philosophy is uh to be friends with all countries in one particular situation that is significant for the region the South China Sea do you see that Indonesia could perhaps help with diffusing tensions in the region over that matter I think we we can try and we would like try and and we have tried but we also have shown uh that by diplomacy by negotiations what I call the Asian way you know uh I think we have diffused a lot of situation I was at the shanga dialogue in Singapore that year that you gave the speech about the Asian way can you explain what that what that means Asia sou Asia we have experienced a lot of uh foreign interference in the past several hundred years right I always say we never went to Europe but the Europeans came to us they basically colonized us they interfered in our internal politics for hundreds of years in India in the Kingdom of Burma in Indo China Malaya in China China was invaded also in the last two 3 400 years right so we experienced that we have this and so for instance South Asia we were we had Wars in South Asia 50 years ago 60 I mean you know Indonesia was in armed conflict with Malaysia with Singapore but we solved it without foreign interference we talked we met and that is the the Asian way I think so in this current geopolitical climate where we see the US and China competing for influence all over the world but but also in Southeast Asia how does Indonesia manage that situation of as you say being friends with with everyone in this case the US and with China because we are very open you know we we we we come and say look we we we respect you we are grateful to you for your past assistance and we welcome you please come in to Indonesia take part in our Economic Development we invite the Americans continuously we invite the Japanese the Koreans they are very strong here they've uh invested here we are open to them the Europeans we invite the Chinese we invite and you were recently in China yes I was in China I was in Japan I was in Malaysia you see so uh we are very open and we tell them please you know uh by the fact that we are friends with you does not mean that we cannot be friends with China with India with Russia Indonesia is in quite a unique position in that in that we are unique and I think uh that's our strength mhm do you think there is potential for Indonesia to play a role perhaps in diffusing some of that tension between the US and China or do you see that situation is already being quite manageable well if there are ways that we can be useful we we want to be useful if there are ways that we can be useful we want to be useful but I think the fact that we we have to give the example and we have to give the the initiative that we have to convince all size that uh you know um the world is getting smaller and uh prosperity of our people needs peace there can be no Prosperity without peace you are now in this position of being able to shape Indonesia for this next period how would you describe your vision for what you would like to achieve in these next few years I am very clear I just want to do my best to safeguard our resources to bring economic betterment to my people to alleviate poverty and hunger that is my top priority sometimes we hear president Joko woto described as a president of infrastructure who who built so much around the country how would you see that you would like to be described at the end of that term I would like to be described as the one who bring alleviation to the most weak the most poor and the most suffering brao sianto president-elect of Indonesia thank you for talking to aler thank you very much for coming [Music]

Channel: Al Jazeera English

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Id: 51Rctpb_EJg

Length: 28min 0sec (1680 seconds)

Published: Sun May 12 2024