Indian Civilisation: The Untold Story - Revisited | Raj Vedam | Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory

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Invasion NO.
Migration yes.

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/plackan 📅︎︎ Jul 13 2019 🗫︎ replies
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why are we distorting our history so much why are we telling our children lies why don't we tell them the truth whether you like our history or not we had good periods bad periods tell them the truth because we've been conditioned to believe that audience came Ganga plain find it bc chase these poor guys to the south with their swords and whips and what not and so any southern Indian settlement cannot be older than 500 BC right now science says Homo erectus became extinct 600,000 years ago genetics says modern man entered into India 85,000 years ago who was making these tools who was making these tools 350,000 years ago that is a question now there is a story today that says that our money originated in Central Asia and the Aryans brought it to India and the reason why you and I have r1a is because audience from Central Asia brought our Bonet to India there is one story or did the r1a originated in India and spread to the western regions so even the consensus among scholars appears to be that our money originated in India and not in Central Asia unfortunately in our country the minute a paper comes from Harvard with 90 or signatories in the paper or 2,000 signatories in the paper it's conflated in the news immediately saying are in invasion proven and all these things how was the journalist equipped to do any of this analysis so first of all thank you all for coming today so it's a pleasure to be back in New Delhi I see some familiar faces from the last time he was here so really happy that we came to the stock so the talk is being titled as that revisiting because the last time that I talked New Delhi I think Rahul made an excellent video too that got a lot of views on YouTube so this year we are revisiting that to see what else is there since the last years narrator so this is I ha Indian history awareness in research we are based in Houston Bengaluru Coimbatore Columbus Funi Chennai we are a group of doctors engineers Vedanta scholars professors and humanity and different professions so our goal in this work is to bring in a different lens than what people are normally used to in the study of history today in history you have overwhelmingly social lens to look at history humanities and so on so bringing the lens of engineering sciences and the hard sciences if you will so let me straightaway jump into the talk so last year I began the talk with the paradoxes in Indian history so I have expanded on that so last year we said we have something called an evidence-based narration and a present-day narration and our goal will be to try and evaluate where we are regarding these two things in a sense I predisposed it over there the big cross mark there but nevertheless we'll go through these things so we note we are an ancient civilization position otherwise knowledge producers position otherwise strong index or tsa's and references but these are ignored devalued and discredited we have a continuity of civilization but then there's an enforced periodization in today's history narrators where we are told that there's something called a hardier percival isolation we don't know anything about them we don't know what they hate what they look like who they worship nothing about them even the script and then isolate sitting out there with mostly links to Egypt and Sumeria and things like that and after that the audience came along and now we have an ardent civilization we're told we have large periods of history that have unfortunately been erased that's not there in today's history this gals me we have hundreds of brushes and Indic works and we are familiar with yet well cure jaimini you name these rushes so many of them who created enormous intellectual works why are they not part of a historical narrator do they not belong to this land is their works not part of the intellectual tradition of this land so here we have major problem when the works of regimes are completely ignored and forgotten in today's narrator we are told that the Hindu social orders blamed for poverty but then we are going to revisit this again and talk about the invasions this we dealt with at length last year about how we are told that Indians received knowledge from Greeks and Babylonians would be showed that Indian knowledge ceded the world we are told that there's something called a Dravid in identity which has been manufactured in India as a dominant way that Indians look upon that was today but we will see there's no distinction in the northern southern Indian from evidence we have that Vedic Sanskrit is one of the perhaps the oldest language that is still surviving but there's a hypothetical proto indo-european ancestor that has been created and this how people talk about that Vedic Sanskrit has been derived from this ancestral language now the Rig Veda talks of the Saraswati River which we know geologically dried up around 2000 BC but we are told that liquid is only composed in 1500 BCE a paradox so they are 500 years after the purported drying up of the river they seem to be talking about flowing rivers in the Himalayas down to the oceans so we have problem that astronomy derived works show dates that show great antiquity however the Upanishads the brahmana some Methos are all dated to find BC to around the three net current era by the likes of max Miller Weber and others we talked about this paradox last time that Indian culture impacted all the lands to its north south and east but did not step one foot outside Afghanistan one more of those very very strange paradox Indian history surveyed la would like to examine who are the guys who wrote our Indian history and why did they even do these kinds of things so last year when I talked about prior to that the untold story of Indian civilization we're going to be talking about the mainstream narration along these lines and we're going to see where the evidence is taking us and we will work our way through some of these things so last year I called out William Jones I called out max Miller and Bentley in others and recently as a guys who wrote the early ontology of India and there's a reason why they did the things the way they did things for example I said that there were products of the Anglican Church who believed that God created the world in four thousand and four BCE and God destroyed the world in 3000 BC Noah's Flood and nothing could have survived the flood event so these gentlemen they came to India and they were shocked when they found a normos chronology in the Indian context I saw bits and pieces in Vinod G's presentation where he's talking about the Quranic King list and these are some of the things that they encountered and they were shocked about where does Indian history begin and where does it end there seems to be no relation to the Western history so they went about looking for an anchor point to see where is the anchor point in Indian history and in this history from majesty nice work they knew that somebody called Sandra Curtis and so they phonetically tried to look at the list in the Quranic English and they chanced upon Chandragupta Maurya and so the Chandragupta Maurya should be linked up to sandra curtis and that is anchor point everybody's very very happy after that but then the problem is the Sanriku toes are talking about majesty knees times perhaps 300 BCE and Chandragupta Maurya dated to much earlier so they introduced distortions in the indian calendar by doing this false anchor points and then they went through a process of saying we know that the Piranha kingís has got a list from grandson or the pandavas all the way to the gupta kings but preventable cherry-picking King lists from here saying these are mythical kings we're going to remove them out and move some people from here to here and these things to get a reduced chronology and why there it is chronology because their worldview would not allow than to accept an enhanced chronology so if you're gonna get into the minds of these guys by looking at what they wrote William Jones he said either the first 11 chapters of Genesis are true or the whole fabric of our national religion is false in this work over here and the place is obliged of course to believe the sanctity of the venerable books of Genesis max Miller he says I look upon the creation given in Genesis as simply historical so these were the guys who had tasked by the East India Company to write the history of India and this is a bias with which they came into the discourse for the longest time Indians have been happy with the Puranas they've been happy with the et ha sirs our notion of history has been to go to Stella purana and look at the temple epigraphy we know that temple was built at certain period of time he wasn't happy with that notion of history these guys came and started imposing a certain offensive we call it the colonial ideological offense where the distortion started and they became mainstream in a sense today we live under the Marxist ideological offense sir and these are the Doyles of this the luminaries eminent historians Bipin Chandra Satish Chandra aris Sharma Romila Thapar f1 Habib and many others who control the roost today in communist outlook or the Marxist ideological offensive this gentleman is by rappa if you google for by reply in CRT you'll find a lot of works of his and INSEAD is particularly interesting because he was on the textbook committee of NCERT he went was chairman ask sir why are we distorting our history so much why are we telling our children lies why don't we tell them the truth whether you like our history or not we had good periods bad periods tell them the truth why do you build history on lies the Chairman apparently told him some things were summarized over here where the Indus Valley Civilisation was disconnected from India and Hindus and made invaders or migrants in 1500 BCE supposedly to preempt the Hindu jingoism that will go around and say that Muslims were invaders in India before they could say that it's a you two are invaders in India in 1500 BC nobody there's no proof that any Hindus went around saying these things but unfortunately this was done to preempt such a situation central narrative favored over rich state narratives of history minority sentiments are privileged invasive periods of Indian histories white Washington imagined atrocities of indict rulers its manufacture this even we have witnessed it when we last reviewed the seventh grade textbooks in particular state which by implication is also an NCERT there is a one paragraph that talks about Ghazni and that chapters that one paragraph says Ghazni came to india and he took took the riches of india and he built a splendid capital in ghana this is one chapter on invasion period followed by four or five lengthy paragraphs that talk about Hindu Kings who supposedly destroyed temples I am actually led this and review this and express my outrage in the review that if they could write this so this is very very true what by refer notices to promote Marxist values deliberate Hindu phobic narrator was made distortions AirAsia's biases errors misrepresentations a hallmark of the current narrative and we cannot build national identity with such distortions that is the bottom line so once again we are going to revisit the evidence because science bites very nature keeps changing there's new evidence coming every day so we need to analyze there is a science taking us what is it saying is it something contrary or habit should we change our narrator because science has changed we will revisit some of these things last time we talked we discussed these points and are in invasion the antiquity the Indian civilization the knowledge systems for Indians and we highlighted the absurdity the present-day narrator and now we will examine some of the later evidences and once again align it along these points so just to quickly refresh your mind the Arion invasion theory every word here is important bands of male warriors from Central Asia invaded migrated to India around 1500 BC every word is important in the battle because it's got to be bands it can't be a huge migration group there's no evidence in genetics it's got to be male because the maternal mitochondrial DNA is not present in the record and it's got to be warriors because they're supposed to have got steal outside in there and come on chariots and all of those kinds of things so every word here is really a battle cry for a narrator so it effectively replaced the existing civilization and brought an entirely new Vedic religion Sanskrit language in Vedic ecosystem this is what we are told around 1500 BCE last time we said how this is rooted in the quest for the Western identity ever since William Jones found the commonality of languages Sanskrit Latin and Greek the Western people are interested in knowing what is their identity and that quest has led them to once again study the narrator's own along these lines we talked about this linguistic analysis last time and then we said that basically what they did was took a list of words common words like a swadesh list no such things took a list of common words and the languages of interest and try to see how do words change from one language to another as an example in thumber if I say come here I'd say in Java inter in Kannada I'd say in liebe so it words changed slightly from one to the other and their interest was not knowing how do these words change what's the statistical distance from one to the other so the early ideas were on one extreme is India other extreme is Western Europe geographically and literally statistically so they said where is the midpoint Caspian Sea and Black Sea that's the that's where language is started so those are the ideas with which they came about this mythical hypothesized language called proto-indo-european there is no evidence that anybody spoke this language there is no evidence that it belonged to geographical region all these things are hypotheses and then these things are supposed to have come from this so you're going to revisit some of these things again last time we talked about this how there's a fusion of linguistics in archeology in the quest of Westerner narrator we talked about Murray again booters and Colin Renfro we talked about how she say is expansion of the languages happen in three ways with domestication of the horse 4000 BC 2000 finite BCE and Colin Renfro who criticized this narrative and came about the Anatolian hypothesis in Turkey saying that once agriculture was invented in Turkey the spread of Agriculture was also the impetus for spreading of languages whether it is a tribe idea in so-called Dravidian and indo-aryan and all those kind of things each we talked of the keuken step ii hypothesis last time to refresh your mind 3,000 find at BCE between the Caspian Sea in Black Sea people called yam Naya living here at the same time that all over the world literally you have civilization over there 2005 at BC they've spread out the east to west and to the east the cottage where people and ennoble people thousand fine at BC they specialized in the Hittites Babylonians Egyptians Mycenae ins and here the BMAC culture you see them entering into sin and into Gujarat and that is a start of the Harding invasion theory for us and by find at BCE they have entrenched in the Ganga plain and you see the appearance of Dravidians in the record over here so this is what we talked about last time too and now we are going to investigate all of these things so the first lines of evidence I'd like to talk about is from archaeology and see what do we know since we talked last year in archaeology that disgusting little more light on who we are what is science saying how old is human habitation in India how old is human habitation in the how about 1 million years ago tools have been found in Tamil Nadu in science in March 2011 Shanthi Papa's a researcher along with these people and they found tools in Tamil Nadu dating back from 1 million years ago how do they know the date of these tools because they make use of something called luminescence luminescence is a process where supposing you have a stone which has got some iron specks in it right granite it's got some iron content it's buried under the earth the Earth's natural radioactivity makes charges to accumulate in this specimen so the longer it is under the soil the more charge it is going to accumulate now when you dig that's and take it out expose it to sunlight the reverse process happened the chart starts leaking away so you could take this to a lab calibrate it and figure out the rate of discharge and you could figure out what is the age of that artifact so using that mechanism shanty poop on others have dated these artifacts at 1 million years ago here's an example of the hand acts the same 1 1 million years ago if you go to Haryana in the National Museum you can find this axe so when you go next to Arianna go and take a look at it and you'll see it over have you seen it ok ok so this is over there so the question comes what does science tell us about the human species who are living 1 million years ago it turns out that science calls them Homo erectus so this is a artistic representation of what the homo erectus might look like the range was all over Africa as well as India southeast China and Southeast Asia also they lived in social groups used fire cranial capacity upper limit around 1,100 CC smaller than humans here homo say homo sapiens you stoned to 70 kilograms up to 6 feet tall I put the scale here to give you an idea 10 million years ago what was a human fossils like wouldn't even look like Homo sapiens today it might look like chimpanzees or Apes in that time frame Homo erectus occupies this nish according to science from 2 million years to 600,000 years ago that is what science today holds in the mainstream narrator homo erectus appear into the record two million years ago became extinct around 600 thousand years ago and be Homo sapiens occupy this tiny niche over here 150 thousand years till now so just to put things in context that 1 million years ago tools whereby apparently this specimen then what happened is about a few months ago this paper hit us this is no place called a theorem pecan in Tamil Nadu where they found 350 thousand years ago tools now science says Homo erectus became extinct 600,000 years ago genetics says modern man entered to India 85,000 years ago who was making these tools who was making these tools 350,000 years ago that is a question now this is an open question there's no answer yet it's the same with such a Shanthi Papa and others who've been working on this it's an open question to figure out who are these people where the Homo erectus some other species we don't know or are the Homo sapiens it's a very open question these are some of the artifacts from there archaeologists talk about tools in two ways one is a tool with your clasp with your hand right it's your class / 2 and it through it think another kind of tool is precision tool where you hold it with your thumb and forefinger and it chip away at you and make it sharper and sharper this is associated with larger cranial capacity so normally they say Homo sapiens are the ones who make these precision tools all these tools were precision tools 350,000 years ago opening the question who made it Homo erectus is supposed to have a lower cranial capacity so who made this I put an outlier over here this is called not mother man it's a skull that was discovered in our mother Valley three hundred thousand year old in 1982 Arizona Kia's GSI initially he thought it's a homo erectus skull then the French investigator measured the capacity and said it is up two thousand four 21 cubic centimeters of the upper lip on which is right where modern Homo sapiens cranial capacity is the average for Homo erectus is thousand cubic centimeters in Southeast Asia China and Africa so this specimen is definitely larger than the so-called Homo erectus and Kenneth's an American research in these papers he says you should design this as an early homo sapien so the reason why I put this is because last time in a talk I gave the impression that genetics Out of Africa it is telling us a very strong story but science by its very nature examines evidence as it comes in it falsifies an earlier evidence we need to change an array too and see where are we going with this so with this we have to open ourselves to the possibility that there's a continuum from Homo erectus to homo sapien and not shy cut off the way science is saying that two million years ago they appeared 600,000 years ago they disappeared perhaps there is a continuum from there to here at least in India that would be the conclusion at least looking at some of these things until we have better evidence from science that says otherwise so from about 40,000 years ago these are some of the Homo Sapien artifacts all over India so on valley BS valley not mother valley all the river valleys north south east west you got specimens we talked about this last time too so what I'm doing here is I'm going starting from 1 million years ago to 350 thousand years ago tools 40,000 years ago and going down in time in archaeology this is a paper we talked about last time antiquity 2009 by Ravi Curie sitter and others say talks of a Jolla forum where 35,000 years ago rock shelter they found human artifacts and other things we talked about this too last time Bhimbetka ethical kata our own piranha Ramachandra Purim how there is a rock art ancient writing in Kerala rock art in andhra pradesh and in barani ten thousand to ten thousand years ago urban artifacts have been found in this part of the world piranha we know from 2007 50 years before present all the way to 9000 for 50 years several artifacts have been found in different layers is from a paper in ESI this one came very very recently maybe just two months back or three months back when a group of enthusiasts they sent up a drone equipped with a video camera at all over some place in Maharashtra and to the surprise they found huge art on the ground this art is so big that if you were to walk over there you can't see the perspective you can't make out what it is you need to go up in the air to see the perspective and some of these things are huge if you look at this it's similar to the Nazca lines in Peru and Chile in those kind of places very similar kind of rock art been found in Maharashtra so the one of the archaeologists has tentatively given a date saying is perhaps older than 10,000 years that's in line with what we know it been better Central India that maybe that is the antiquity of this rock art Dwaraka from episodes March 2003 we know this group national instead of ocean technology chain a center ship equipped with sonar and they found a nine kilometer long feature about 40 metres above the sea level they also found a piece of wood which they dated in Hyderabad as well as in Germany and they came back with a date of eight thousand five years or nine thousand three hundred years before present for the artifact which could also be the age of the settlement or city wall that they found over there this is a beautiful pot Balochistan pot 3000 finite years ago this news came out pretty recently maybe about four five months ago friend Sonali Uther Pradesh they found chariot burials in pit grapes a whole lot of them so the archaeologist has dated the tentatively to an upper bound of 2000 BCE we are going to revisit this again a little later beautiful humped bull with gold haunts 1800 BCE sank Amira we talked about some Gaviria last same but clarity how does an urban artifact found in outside mother died about 20 kilometers outside mother died some of the artifacts from there and we talked about a controversy with this - last time there to refresh your mind I said that the ASI dug up to 4.5 meters but they took samples in the 2 meter depth and sent it off to Florida for carbon dating and they came back with a date of 3rd century BCE and then this unfortunately may not be true because the question is what about this 4.5 meters that you are excavated you found artifacts all over the place so I said last time that if the ASI reported 4.5 meters depth of excavation if you take the top layer is 2018 let's change it 2018 then 2 meters down your carbon dated to 2200 years which means every meter depth is 1,100 years linearly I'm an engineer this is what I do if you don't give me any additional data I'm going to make a linear approximation I'm going to say everything is linear and you've given me one data point I'm going to use that X pilatus interesting until you give me better measurements until you come and give me a nonlinear measurement and such things it's a first approximation you go with that date so every meter linearly corresponds to 1,100 years which means 4.5 meters should correspond to 5,000 years before present and that comes to approximately 3000 BCE very very odd data point sitting in southern India because we've been conditioned to believe that Aryans came Ganga planed find at BC chase these poor guys to the south with their swords and whips and whatnot and so any southern Indian settlement cannot be older than 500 BC right according to the common narrative if you find something in urban settlement in southern India 3000 BC whoa what's going on here so I called this out last time saying yes I should I reported a range of artifacts have we got artifacts from this top layer middle layer bottom layer that would have been a more honest representation we also said last time that there's some politicking going on the state has taken over credit excavations the archeologist was transferred from that or natural predation or someplace like that and we don't know we still don't have clarity is it the Tamil Nadu government that is doing it or is it the central government doing it we have no idea that there was a lot of to and fro and mud slinging going on over here but my belief is that there's top excavating Kerdi at this point so I don't know what is the future of the site we talked about the glass factory is a very committed last time where we said that outside paccheri Pondicherry the glass speeds that have been found there have been dated up to 300 BCE however the archaeologists who excavated that Vemula Bigley she said that in this diary she had to stop working because she was under the water table and even a large pump could not keep the water out so implying that there are artifacts waiting to be found over there but she could not get it because of the technological issue she can't dig deeper than that so a site today has covered up this idea made behind this Roman wall you can see a Coconut Grove that's where our key meters this is one of those paradoxical situations this map is from GTA through V so on a map if you place the names of all the places names epochs lately has us you soon find that all over India and outside India Oh thorough Karuna those your names mentioned over there so the epics are deeply tied to the geography of the land however we ignore the pics of sources of history very very unfortunate and we teach our children this we teach them that there was a Indus Valley Civilisation disconnected with India looking outside for trade and inspiration and it commenced 5,000 years ago decline 3.6 thousand years ago and silence about any activity over here giving children a wrong idea that this empty lands over here so very very unfortunate the way our textbooks are portrayed so that was the archaeological evidence where I presented some new data talking that human habitation has been as old as 1 million years and I called into question the common thinking today at least that modern man came into India from Africa around eighty five thousand years ago that is called into question because of the archaeological artifacts we are finding which seemed to imply this a continuum so it's one of those open questions as of today we don't have a resolution one way or the other so let's go to our cure genetics and this is going to be a deeper talk than last time I hope I can still hold your attention so our key genetics we contain records of mutations carried by all our ancient ancestors mother's side father's side grandfather great-grandfather all those mutations because of recombination we carry those mutations ostensibly we can both backwards and we can say if I carry this genetic structure how is it related to some ancient specimens theoretically at least we can address that problem so today people use maternal mitochondrial field later Y chromosome will field data genome-wide data thus new these days and mathematical analysis influenced by mapping real world today the field is incredibly special and it is a multidisciplinary field in fact this is the scope of work over there is a field worker who goes out to the field it gets the samples and things like that there's a lab specialist who takes this and processes the data in the lab there's a bioinformatician who puts a mathematical model on these things if you're relating an ancient sample to a current sample what is the hidden Markov chain model or some other kind of model statistical model and all these kind of things there's a programmer who's going to write all the C++ code or something whatever the bioinformatician is going to do there's an applied mathematician who will help you to converge the algorithm this program has got no clue about then finally there are somebody's going to interpret the results maybe the professor will take all the numbers and create a story connecting it or social narrator this field is so big it's rare that one person has got expertise over this interchange so invariably the lab specialists have no idea what this person is talking this person will have no idea what this person is talking and this is the way this you might find rare cases from here and thereby where a bioinformatician can do these three jobs and with luck you can also do this job but the bottom line is it is a very specialized field so it's rare to find people this reason why I'm saying this we'll find out as we go very quick biology lesson about chromosomes we know that we are 22 pairs called autosomes and one pair of sex chromosomes the mother brings in the XX father the X Y the daughter gets X 1 X from mother 1 X 4 father's son always get 6 from mother always gets wife and father this is a recombination that we all know from high school biology this happens the time of conception the Muses where the mother's contained father's content replication cross over and is a recombination and the genetic material is shared replicated and so on and so forth so this is the starting point for the mathematical work on understanding how these things happen before I embarked on my India talks I spoke to a friend who's a professor in you know higher in biochemistry to us I talked to her to try and understand this process well I needed to understand is this a random process or does the biochemistry of the ovum and the sperm does that have a bearing on what is a genetic material that is exchanged after to us became the conclusion that today's science says is utterly random there is no way that we can say which genetic content is going to be involved in this crossover however that is at odds with our own garbo Punishers and other such things that talk about conception being with your precision must karma and other such things that'll involve where you are going to there's a connection that we don't understand that has been exposed as randomness today so I probe this issue of randomness a little further as a mathematician I said is every genome equally likely to take part in the randomness and the answer was wherever the crossover points are and whether these things are tightly held they will not take part in the in the exchange they'll be tightly held but some of the parts are more likely than other parts so bottom line it is not uniformly random but there are segments in the DNA where are more likely to participate in others less likely bottom line is there are a lot of assumptions that are made in today studies which have no bearing to reality I'm going to expose some of these things if I take a random guy from New Delhi grab him and take us genetic profile it's not going to give any value it's going to be utterly useless however if I go to maybe 1,000 households or 10,000 households in New Delhi and take their genetic samples then pretty soon with students scoring kind of things such a picture is going to emerge it'll tell me the pie chart where 33 percent of Delhi carries this mutation 25 percent carry this mutation and some trace amounts for some of the mutation such a picture emerge for a population as a whole that is the whole idea the scientists use these kind of pie charts to figure out and give markers like a and B T to give an idea of how differences in genome tell a story of human migration for example the EM marker mostly in India and then spreading outside the a marker not in Africa not in India but outside the B marker only in Africa so these things help us to understand they tell us a story based upon the statistical majority of the genomes of people carry they can start telling stories before 2010 it was incredibly expensive to do any kind of genetic studies only a few laboratories and maybe universities could do that because that was the price of that today the price is fallen you can go to 23andme or somewhere for $99 you do saliva swab they'll give you a genetic profile and all those things but those days was very expensive plus prior to 2010 the computing technology was not as good as it is today so they couldn't do much of the genetic work mathematical genetic work that I like to do so they were forced to work with the gender chromosomes either the maternal mitochondrial DNA or the white chromosome was work that was used primarily in early genetic studies to talk about the migration of humans how did humans populate the world mtDNA this is the maternal mitochondrial DNA so the early works figure out all these mutations we are interest in the EM marker for India mostly in India and spreading out the rest of the world and if you look at the colors over here you can see there's a purple color that goes somewhat like this it's starting to tell a story right just by looking at a color you can start telling a story yeah there's a difference in the genome that is inferring a pattern it doesn't tell you the direction it doesn't tell you the direction but there is a movement that you can connect these two kind of people similarly the y haplogroup from the male and we are interested in Arvind a and Arvind B Arvind is mostly in India and Arvind B is mostly in Europe here too you can see the purple color how it spreads over here still in a story so the last time that we talked about the maternal mitochondrial DNA I present it to you the work of stephen oppenheimer and i said that his story can't read this but around 85 thousand years ago group of people left in their walk in this triangular part generation by generation migration then we said seventy-five thousand years ago there's Mount Toba event that caused an extinction of the human race over here leading to less than 10,000 adults were left to repopulate the world all the non African people of the world are derived from the 10,000 people who survived the Mount Toba event a huge volcano super in Matra then we talked about how in the ice ages ended 65 thousand years ago the Neanderthals died out and humans from this part of India they migrated cross the Bosphorus and became the future Europeans then about 45,000 years ago we talked about Indians from this part of India this part of India Sumeria from Taiwan other places they cross the Siberia the land bridge and became the future North and South Americans this we talked about last time as a story of how humans populated the world as a function of the Mac kernel mitochondrial DNA this is a state of art understanding until 2035 and so now the maternal mitochondrial DNA is very very stable and there's a reason for that I don't want to go into very great detail but it is not using the X chromosome of the mother rather in the ovum they find the mitochondria it is a DNA of the mitochondria that we are tracking and that is very very stable it does not mutate very often it's very very stable and that is that is why you have a very very stable story coming over here this story could not address the Aryan invasion theory or the Western identity problem so people said why don't we look at the Y chromosome maybe the Y chromosome has got more resolution than the maternal mitochondrial DNA and so people start looking at the Y chromosome so PETA underhell 2014 examined so many individuals hundred 26 populations and he said appeared in the genetic record 25,000 years ago is somewhere near Iran and one more thing is that if you want to talk about audience you can't talk use such an old mutation you want to have data with more resolution the timeframe of interest 6,000 years ago two questions have become prominent where did the r1a originated under health says Iran but is it done story or that more people saying different things there is a story today that says that Arvin Lee originated in Central Asia and the Aryans brought it to India and the reason why you and I have r1a is because Ariane from Central Asia darvany to India there is one story or did the Arvind a originated in India and spread to the western regions so to address that question I took a look at several researchers partial 2003 KVL and others all the way to thank Raj in 2010 to see their opinion on Arvind a where did our Burnley originate so Barcia says Central Asia KB said say southern Asia Sengupta says North India tun seems say southern Asia South Asia not western India South Asia South Asia so even the consensus among scholars appears to be that irony originated in India and not in Central Asia if you look at all the studies by these people so it turns out that mtDNA and y-chromosome are indicating an indecorous in' it fails to validate the linguistic model these are the results as of 2010 then what happened the superstar professor came on the scene his name is Professor David rich brilliant man from Harvard University and he wrote this book who we are and how we got here this book was published sometime in April or May of this year and he said since the empty DNA and the y-chromosome are not telling a story that we want why don't we look at the remaining 22 autosomes why are we only looking at the gender chromosomes we still have 22 autosomes so let us look at the 22 autosomes to see this evidence of our in invasion theory or the identity issues this is called genome-wide data so the first thing that he did is try to take ancient samples that you might be able to recover entire genome record for example horror skeletons if they are 5000 years old can you go and get maybe from the bones or teeth maybe you can find some genetic record the problem is the ancient samples are invariably contaminated by bacterial DNA so the human DNA is mixed with bacteria after thousands of years right bacteria is going to work and so you have contamination next thing is if a sample has been under the soil under water salt water therefore long time the mineralisation that breaks down the DNA also and he can't get the samples so scientists today with laborious laboratory methods they're able to extract pieces of the genome one piece from here one piece from here one piece from here and so on then they need to fill in the blanks and to fill in the blanks they make use of present-day human DNA as well as chimpanzee DNA they use both to reconstruct the ancient fragments and David the reach say this in page 32 33 on how it takes four samples david reach concluded some very strange things that I'd like to talk about I'm not gonna read all these things he said Europeans are more closely related to Indians than to the Chinese Indians Europeans closely related then he also said Chinese are more closely related to Indians than the Europeans so any logical person and I'm sure all of us in this room will say the modulus Indians are the common link from Indians you get Europeans one side Chinese in the other side however he didn't do that deferring to the Arion invasion theory he introduced one layer of abstraction he said let there be hypothesize proto-indo-european people over here from whom are derived the Europeans and the Indians so bottom line I am calling out the model validity what is the model that you did you selected a model that conveniently goes in a circular argument and fits the our invasion theory and you're going to now do some mathematical analysis and be fertile the entire world with it and nobody understand what the math is we're going to go with detail on all of these things so there's some problems over here I'm not going to read all these things so this is the claims as of August of 2018 of this year on the genetic research it says the present-day Indians have strong affinity to ancient Iranian farmers 9,000 years ago via told the pastoral people from Iran came and pervasively mixed with northern Indian and southern Indian all of us have this said DNA from Iranians then presently Indians have strong affinity to ancient steppe a pastoral people 4000 years this is our Dean invasion theory so from Central Asia people came four thousand years ago so 9,000 years ago Iranians came mixed with everybody then four thousand years ago Central Asians came and they makes this is a story I'm not going to go very deep into all of this ani and ESI which is basically if there are some issues over here what I'd like to do is bring out a couple of contradictory research this came out in bio archive in March 2018 waggish nurse inland primo journey and David Rees and others this paper when they're talking about a South Asian genomic formation they claimed admixture from Yamaha admixture is a fancy word that says we are two ancient populations the Indian and maybe Central Asian these populations to mix and makes a hybrid that is admixture and their generations come down to us so that is an admixture model so they are claiming this admixture from me omnia however this second paper that came out in May two thousand eighteen by some Scandinavian professors it gets a diametrically opposite result saying there is no admixture from jaan liya so I came in asked how is this possible how is it that two research teams ostensibly using similar people's data ancient people from Central Asia aging people from India presently samples of India but they're coming with different conclusions how is it possible so as an engineer I wanted a scientist I want to question that what what is going on is it a methodological problem research problem or is there some other issue here let's investigate a bit so like to talk to you about this rebuttal paper that was written by dr. Premier Priya there she and Morley body value in September of 2018 of this year so what they did was something very very interesting to give you an idea of how this works supposing there is a village let us say in Tamil Nadu remote village in Tamil Nadu where there are 95 people living 1,000 years ago among this 95 people five foreigners from Scandinavia come and live over there thousand years ago after 1000 years I studied the genetics of the descendants and I find oh well mainly these five people's DNA is present and the 95 people who lived there they are absent you understand what I'm saying so this is the nature of the work that they wanted rebirth so they took figure three from this paper and they worked the mathematics they said let's work the mathematical model and figure out if you're claiming that there's so much a percentage of Central Asian DNA content in present Indians let's work backwards and find out how many immigrants came to India so that genetically they will over in the existing population and give these numbers there is such phone up to four times the immigrants must have come into India to give you an idea Saraswathi Sindhu civilization supported between two million to five million that is our estimate of how many what is the population like at the upper end five million you multiplied by four twenty million people came from Central Asia to India to overwhelm us all genetically so that you and I today carry the genetic content with the claimed percentages that they're talking about that is the nature of the work which they did and they called out the absurdity saying desert arid Central Asia sent four times the population this is why it's important to say bands of male warriors came they didn't come 20 million in a chain walking to India there's no evidence so they converted the story saying bands of them started coming trickling in from time to time it's a very strange story it doesn't bear out whichever way you look at it there's a problem over here so I put one more paper here to show you the dramatic impact of sampling on the results this is from genetics in 2015 written by some French professor so what he did was let me give you an example supposing I go to an IT park in Gurgaon and take about hundred guys from there the tenth example and I say I'm going to talk about genetics of New Delhi with these guys is that valid it's not because there are guys from West Bengal from Karnataka from Punjab all of the place come and work in the IT park so that's not a valid sample this researcher said if I'm going to admit your sample I required that you be living in the same place as your grandfather if you live in the same place as your grandfather then I will take a genetic sample so the some notion of stability once you start for three generations you live in the same place it makes sense so by using grandfathers location he tried to say what is the most common recent ancestor the most recent common ancestor he said the z93 in Pakistan in India the most recent common ancestors 15,000 years ago in contrast to David riche who says the most common recent ancestor is 4000 years ago you see that David Rees result saying most common recent ancestor of Central Asia and northern India is 4000 years ago these guys the different kind of sampling are saying 15,000 years ago you have a common ancestor so this is just giving an idea that the methodology has got enormous problems which the common person does not understand because there's so many details over here I'm going to give you a little flavor of that and I hope I still hold your attention this is in 2015 territory genetics by look what you can look look this paper up if you like this book was written in this year it came out this year I'm not going to go all the way back but came out this year in April or May of 2015 18 when you're a superstar professor you only rely on your Harvard University results there's a hierarchy there also there's snobbery in hierarchy what results you're going to take whose results are you going to refer to there's a lot of snobbery in research let's put it that way so two studies two reserves how is it possible one person takes ancient samples maps it to present-day samples and it says 100 generations another takes the same ancient samples but a different population distribution and gets 150 generations how is it possible so I just put down some ideas here I'm not going to go into great detail on these things there are two main methods today in mathematics for ancestry estimation one is model-based the model base is used for admixture where they say if I got some ancient samples from the past maybe Harper skeletons or Central Asia skeletons and I got present-day samples my goal is to work backwards from the current sample and look at that mixture when was the last admixture possible that is a goal so it's like a computer science problem where you start working backwards and doing things there are some issues as we that will talk with it later so they use statistical models with unknown coefficients and these are some of the admixture software that they do on the other side they do algorithm based estimation we'll talk about this a little later PCI analysis I call out all of these things because this is my bread and butter for the last 30 years as an engineer this is what I do for a living I work with models I do model curve fitting and I do analysis of that and as convergence all right algorithms this is what I do and I know all the problems over here what are the assumptions that you have what have you encode it into study with assumptions is your model appropriate we saw how David reached instead of using the obvious model use an abstraction so right there your problem how does a problem scale does it converge what is initialization because a nonlinear problem where you start matters a lot if there's only one solution no problem wherever you start maybe you'll land to that one solution if the linear case however prison on linear and admits multiple answers then where you start has got a great bearing on where you are going to land up that is the nature of nonlinear systems so how do you Nishal eyes that then there are some technicalities on the hessian and other such things global optimality are you sure you got the best answer I told you that a nonlinear system can admit multiple answers you get a answer is it the answer that is the question and then how many solutions are there because a nonlinear system can admit multiple solutions so you got one particular solution how do you claim this canonical or something so important so I'm calling out this thing saying just because convergence was obtained does not confer a certificate of correctness on your result it is only a mathematical exercise where you take a model take some data do a curve fitting claim convergence that's all it is it's a mathematical exercise it does not confer any kind of correctness unless you can prove a lot of things about all of these things unfortunately we have seen circular arguments here and things like that to give you an idea some models for admixture here is one model called continuous gene models they could be two ancient populations one and two and they create a hybrid with some percentage of genetic content and going into the next generation population one does not give its genetic content only population two continues to give its genetic content you make hybrid this for example could be the model in United States whether this is the black population in the white population and they mix make a hybrid but because of their power structure the black does not mix it's a vie to continues to give the genetic content going down so this could be a model over there graduated mixture population one population to make a hybrid in some percentage and they continue to give the genetic content in future generations also that's another model model three is hybrid isolation population one population to make a hybrid then they stop giving their content hybrid continues in generation one two three four by themselves so even in biology you have many many models which model did he use for India admixture with yum niyam which model you use did you use this or did you use this this is a question you have problems over here if you say bands of male warrior skin then I need to know if both populations made hybrid when did they come and when did they give their content we have problems there's no data nothing's available or if you say only 120 million people came in population 1 and population 2 in the stop that also needs to be called out and said this is what I'm doing so we have enormous problems in the modeling phrase phase itself this is the issue I'm going to give you a thought experiment in this thought experiment you assume that there's an ancient population and you know the exact ancient population you had a DNA profile exactly and know the exact numbers in other words you say I know all my grandparents who lived 1,000 years ago I know exactly who lived in this time frame I also had a genetic by some magic I know the genetics so these are the let's say this color this color this color this color then several generations as recombination in this population they are mixing marrying and all those kind of things at every stage assume you know the exact descendants exact number of generations exact bearing who married whom you know all that data then today you have this completely mixed up color from these four colors a present-day population and here you know the exact descendants in the pool only the direct descendants are here nobody else and you have that exact profile even in this exact scenario to work out from this to go back to this to figure out who inherited from whom and how much is something that we call an np-hard problem in computer science theoretical complexity the computational complexity is exponential which means it's incredibly difficult even in the exact case to go backwards in the trees and work backwards and say how did the recombination happen now let's go to the non-ideal case let's just change one thing I know all these things but I don't know the exact bearings in the pool I don't know who married whom it introduces one level of complexity so here if you're working backwards now you have to search or all the possible pairings here over all the possible pairings then you work out to say how does this map to that this is where we are today you don't know the ancient population you don't have that DNA profile exactly you don't know their exact numbers you don't know the exact descendants don't have the exact number of generations don't know the who married whom have no don't know the exact descendants no idea if only direct descendants are here you don't have the exact DNA profiles either so this is the model which people have today and it is this model that they're taking applying mathematics giving you an answer and claiming to write these global papers with global claims about who came to India at one type frame and where I hope I given you a flavor for the mathematical issues and technological issues I'm deconstructing the research methodology and saying there problems everywhere you cannot take this results and start doing things so the use assumes statistical models as zoomed parameters do some curve fitting this limited predictability with these things on the other side this is the admixture problem there is one more problem called PCA PCA is called principal opponent analysis in that analysis what they do is if you have a matrix where this is geographical region 1 region 2 region 3 for example you start from southern India say this relates work your way to the north this village this village this village village where village you go and you take the different markers you find out that generate profile and say 30% of them are carrying this marker 20% this markers and so on you identify these various markers you're carrying and you have a matrix if you do something called singular value decomposition how many other engineers here some are engineers so you might have heard singular value decomposition somewhere in your past once you do this mathematical algorithm it gives you a bunch of numbers called principal components so basically David Ray she's taking the largest principal components p1 and p2 and is placing these regions over here which region how does it fit in this graph over here and then he gets a gradient based on that gradient he says the northern Indian population is closer to Central Asia southern Indian population is an isolate therefore he got the Ani in the ASI however what they have done to get a gradient is in the southern Indian sample they've included the andamanese they included the Andaman DNA along with the southern Indian sample so that there's a clustering possible to create an artificial gradient the Andaman is stop mixing the mainstream population 40,000 to 50,000 years ago why would you include them in today's narrative of who we are even if you're interested in 5,000 year old data and the money shouldn't be there just simply shouldn't be there in the data so you skewed your data skewed the numbers in your matrix so that you'll get a kind of a result that will do what you want to do so whether it is admixture or PCA analysis I'm claiming that one has got to do great diligence why did you put those numbers why did you put the antibodies why did you choose a model that a certain argument so many questions can be raised a good pure review would do all of these things unfortunately like I told you is a multidisciplinary field nobody's got the expertise of the data span across this the guy who's an expert in biology has no clue of mathematics the guy who knows mathematics doesn't know biology so who's going to peer-review these papers so this is the problem the papers get admitted there's not sufficient peer review and all kinds of issues happen to close out this section I'd like to give you one example that talks about circular logic this from a paper in 2015 from California Berkeley in language so these people went about the fuze linguistics and genetics okay they wanted to say let's apply our no knowledge of linguistics and no knowledge of genetics and see whether some of our models of fitting including are in English and all these kind of things they took a dictionary of 200 words and they did this very strange thing all these these are all the various people you can't read it from there but trust me you and I can't read from here so various people over here and these links over here say how genetically close these people are to these people so these black bars over here that is saying how close they are for example this is far from here this is far from here these are very closely related so these are ancestral constraints the clade constraints or black bars in addition they also took time bars time constraint time concern linguistic model gives you time how old is Sanskrit when did it diverged from some of the language so Sanskrit Vedic Sanskrit they put here to around 3,000 or some such thing the next closest to that is the Hittites Hittites are over here nobody speaks Hittite anymore ancient Greeks are over here Assyrians talk Aryan and other languages are here so they took the time constraints given by linguistic models and they took the genetic constraints given by people like David region others then let's let's now start a mathematical problem trying to see it as a model converge and say AHA it converges it observes closeness to the steppy hypothesis unfortunately the whole thing is a circular argument the genetic model is a circular argument linguistic model is a self-fulfilling circular argument the whole thing is an exercise in mathematics with no bearing Tori at all but these papers are published so my conclusion has not changed from last year but I'm saying that the genetic studies uses preconceived models and markers as constraints results are not primary evidence they can only serve as supporting evidence one will have to see sensitivity of results to population size composition and assumptions just like I said last year what will happen if I take a few pieces of data out and put some other pieces of data in how are your results going to change as an engineer that's what I do when my team comes and tells me that here is a model that is working beautifully I will do the diligence and say alright I'm going to remove this data out do the studies again is a conclusion similar how robust is your conclusion if I took this pieces of data out and it converts to an entirely different answer that means your model depends strongly on these few data points you see what I'm saying so that is a sensitivity you need to study sensitivity then the composition what is a composition am I going to take data from the IT park and good gone or am I going to go and say you better be living the same place as a grandfather for me to take your data so that one and the size how many am I going to admit if I'm going to talk the size of the Indian population am I going to take 1,000 brahmins and about 10 childress and something else and say I've got a genetic profile of Indians so problem that - what percentage are you going to take because of endogamy we have got some certain differences in us so what are you going to take so all kinds of issues are there and you need to be careful over there need to be careful and tempting aligned mathematical numbers alongside a narrative and avoid subjective biases to creep into the result the reason is like this like I said last time supposing after all this convergence analysis you go and give the professor you all your numbers I got all these numbers this one is closely related to this this one is closely related to that and the difference between this group of people and this group of people is point zero zero one and you say that point zero zero one is enough for me to differentiate these populations just a number my question is how did he calibrate that why is point zero zero one significant in your data you need to do talk to me about scaling you need to talk to about significance of the numbers before you come and say that this much resolution is enough to say this people are different from that that is a problem in that ASI Ani model you had to put andamanese people to create an artificial gradient between North Indian and South Indian if you throw that Andaman is DNA there is no genetic difference between the North Indian and South India I suppose a pastoral people so you see what I'm saying one has got to be super careful when you do all of these kind of studies so a good critique is going to go and check all of these things and figure out what is happening before you admit some of these things unfortunately in our country the minute a paper comes from Harvard with 90 signatories in the paper or two thousand signatories in the paper its conflated in the news immediately saying are in invasion proven and all these things how are the journalist equipped to do any of this analysis so we have a very very big problem next time somebody talks about these things I hope you'll be able to get out there and report and basis of some of these things so like to now talk about other evidence not fitting with the Aryan invasion theory hypothesis first thing is continuity of civilization this is archaeologists very revered man Beebe love and he's worth India's greatest archaeologist he's alive even today 98 years old or so a very a gentleman so initially when he found the painted grey ware and Haryana and he dated it to around I don't know what thousand seven BC or whatever and he came in so there's no evidence for Ramayana Mahabharata he was a darling of the Marxist initially later on as he found more and more evidence that seems to go against that he became an outcast they no longer took his works so he wrote a article you can search for continuity of civilization by Bibi lon there's a paper by him available on Google and he can read that so he shows in various things for example the protege of a symbol the swastika symbol I went to Lothal a few years ago and with my daughter and we are walking and I find the bricks with the swastika symbol on that and I was so naive I asked are these bricks knew the pattern why would we put new bricks over here both of the old Harper bricks and swastika on them so even today go to Lothal which is outside I am at the bath and you'll be able to see the swastika symbols of those things then he uncovered terracotta figurines which seemed to show the Sindhu symbol even today in India some married women wear the single symbol and here's an instance of cultural continuity of a tradition you see that there's a tradition that has been continued from Hara / x to present times that is what he's showing over here then a figure showing namaste pose namaste is a deeply vedanta concept that says the narayana in me is bowing to the nara and I knew that is the namaste pose evident ik concept seems to be embedded in a terra cotta figurine in Harappa then sro and other archaeologists he found a Shiva Linga in Kali bong-gun and Asaro and B Bilal found several terracotta figurines showing yoga asana positions bottom line is there appears to be a continuity of ideas rather than a periodization it's not that it's an isolate called Harper living here and then there is a audience that came here rather there's a continuity in traditions continuity in ideas and such things VB log presents a lot more evidence in archaeology on sorry on agriculture and several other things so I recommend reading his original paper to see this here are some researchers who are all working on similar ideas of continuity of civilization dr. Stronach ileandra manraja rom Shrikant allegory professor Subash car david Frawley conrad else kazan us lots of people are working on similar ideas of continuity of civilization here's a paradox we are told that I own ages are shortened India by invading audience in 1500 BCE with it is in our Banerjee 65 or Suvari in 2003 they talk about iron however this new silent came out in 2015 and professor KP raw he found several artifacts knives and blades in Telangana and he sent it off to a lab in Hyderabad for testing luminescence testing and the date was range was 18 to 2400 BCE that is a date of iron in Telangana and I just put the date as 2200 over here so this completely invalidates the idea that iron was invented somewhere in Central Asia and they made swords and they were better than bronze eight swords and they came in oh when the city civilization this is a evidence that proves otherwise over here other paradox we already talked about this we are told Aryans brought horse and chariots to India and we are also shown if you remember David woods documentary on India he shows this chariot burial 4,000 euro chariot burial in Georgia and he claims that because there is a chariot on the way to India on the way to India he claims that as houses proof that Aryans came to India now you have not one not two they found maybe 10 to 15 pit burials with chariots in them with Bronze Age weapons also in them so that completely overturns this false thinking over here and here also the harpa bronze National Museum 2000 BC this also dated to around 2000 BCE this is a very interesting paper so this came out in May 2000 18 in current science from Institute of paleo Sciences in Lucknow these are the professors and they found evidence of paddy cultivation in the Ganga plain dating back to the Holocene era so their dates comes to around 9,000 years ago but Holocene is actually from 12,000 years ago this completely invalidates a claim that Icicle she was invented in Turkey in 6500 BCE and spread to India because you're seeing paddy itself in India in this timeframe according to this paper this is a very interesting paper this is from dr. priming the reprieve that she he called this out this is in genome biology I think in 2007 and the researcher there wanted to find out where is a genomic ancestry of all the house mice where is it from and to their surprise they found the ancestor of the mises in India and it goes back to 12,000 years so it's from India to Madagascar India to northern Africa India to a Western Europe to China to southeast China Southeast Asia all these places it's from India goes there why is it relevant because we know that mice go where there is paddy you store paddy in your storeroom mice are going to come and as agriculture is going to the rest of the world nice camper along and go along with the paddy right so it is in very very interesting to correlate this data point and this research has got nothing to do with this researcher and look at these two side-by-side and seems to say agriculture all souls invented in India I look at the genome of mice it's studying a strong story so once again we come to the same conclusion that we did last year there's no change in that but science having an invasion theory is false archaeology shows ancient artifact a predate the invasion period north west south central India we are seeing a human continuum for 1 million years at least in India genetic evidence of great antiquity of the Indian people the empty DNA markers and RNA showed robust presence in India then I also put this box over here for this year to say what is our internal evidence is it any internal evidence remember we are a secular people and we don't consider internal evidence so anyway let's take a look at what it says is there any support for migrations or any such thing and it says the Vedas and Puranas talk about the ANU and address you these are Vedic Vedic tribes and they are supposed to have migrated out of India and there are some people who say that migration was from Punjab to Cantara area this evidence is ignored this evidence is then bucco the Parana Vishnu Purana why you piranha brahmanda purana mateship karana as well as Rig Veda all these verses are all talking about a migration it's not just in one purana many of them are talking about it but we don't care about this right so I'm bringing up the proposition if this migration would have happened around 9,000 years ago could that account for the data point that is seen in reached work where he's saying that there is ancient farmer Iranian farmer DNA in India he caught the direction wrong maybe the direction is this side maybe that's what it is and then later on the drying up of sarasvati in 2000 BC or so resulted in outward migration we know about the Hittites melanie's who spoke it Sanskrit and so on Egypt the Hyksos people who supposed to have been isolating their culture till that the Nubians were there another such people suddenly these people appear on the scene and people are thinking they were Indians who went over there maybe this can account for genetic closeness to Central Asia in addition the four thousand years ago will you see there's genetic content there we can the direction is wrong maybe the direction of this way so I'm just calling it out so maybe if I have access to the data I as a mathematician would love to have a model that says out of India to time frames during the rig Vedic period and during this period trying up of Saraswati and fit the data that we have I'm willing to bet it'll be a beautiful fit with no contradictions nobody does that because people are funded by NSF National Science Foundation and other such things they can't give a proposal to such proposal that says I am going to have outlandish theory of out of India so the only thing they can say is I'm fitting it with the known P ie proto-indo-european theory and I'm going to validate that that will get funded this is not going to get funded so researchers have got constraints too in what they take for these things but I really wish some Indic scholars will take this up and study this might show some very interesting things so we talked about this last time what caused a collapse of Indus Valley Civilisation if because we are told that invading Aryans caused a collapse we know it owned at your drought cycle doomed it the monsoons failed for 4200 years sorry 2004 twenty years ago monsoons failed for two hundred years we have evidence that once the monsoons failed the glacier-fed rivers gradually thinned out this evidence of that if you look at the internal evidence balarama's supposed to have done civil engineering works to get water to Dwarka again there are circular people we don't care about these kinds of things but there is some evidence that there's a desperation in the people when monsoons at failed today in India if monsoons failed so one year a GDP will go down if monsoon fails for five years I don't know what is going to happen maybe widespread famine would happen inflation and other things that happen can you imagine 200 years 200 years of monsoons have failed so this would have called for dramatic measures of people's civil engineering works desperation to get water in everything fails you leave everything whether you live built a magnificient mohenjo-daro magnificient shipyard at lota you leave everything and you go where water is you can't take the buildings on your back you leave everything and goes that's that's what appears to have happened in Indus Valley Civilisation so last time we talked about poverty I'd like to talk once again about this we are told that the Vedic system the caste system kept the lower classes to their positions without giving them access to studies and other such things and that accounts a widespread poverty in India that is what Marxist would like you to believe and that's what has been pushed in the textbooks like to see what will happen and this medicine historical economist talks about the GDP of India thirty three percent as the world GDP in one going down to two thousand three up to 2003 you see it's going through a period of decline over here through invasion periods a small rise during Maratha consolidation and then the colonial is in a rapid decline fortunes of India when Western Europe goes up the idea from a mile high view is that a transference of wealth from India into Western Europe caused poverty in India however this is hiding a lot of things there are maybe hundred PhD thesis waiting to be written over here about the micro stories there are lots of human interest bottom level stories that is not told by this graph it everything is embedded over here first thing I like to call your attention to is as an engineer I love doing this let's extrapolate backwards let's extrapolate backwards what is it telling you it's telling you where you've take this graph at 33% and go backwards and time the slope is more and more positive meaning that India was a very very rich nation in the past when I gave this talk in Chennai I was fortunate that dr. Serena Kalyan Raman he came to the talk he's a director of Saraswathi Research Centre and he said do you notice if he pushed his graph all the way back to the harpin times we have one of the most rich people and all his works Heaney Kalyan Raman has been working on the wealth of ancient India was based on metal works his research shows how there was a trade from Mekong Valley in Vietnam all the way to Haifa in Israel there was metal works which was going through the mekong river Brahmaputra River the Ganga river the Sindhu Saraswathi Indus and the land route up to Haifa and he says horrible people were the center of all of this action and they were experts at metal works they were the ones who invented bronze somebody over here figure out that you take copper and I had tin to it it's going to become bronze they were the ones who are doing metal works it is this that contributed to the wealth of ancient India here's an amazing observation that cynically on Raman made I thought I will talk about that next thing I'd like to talk about today if I take somebody from the streets of New Delhi and ask what are your aspirations he's going to say I'd love to have a bungalow in the richest part of New Delhi I don't know what that is maybe where Jen path is somewhere a bungalow by themselves and then he'd say that I'd love to have an audio card maybe and send my children to rich schools and maybe take a vacation in Europe wears expensive clothes these are the aspirations and the money goes to all these various people let me take the question back 200 years 200 or 300 years ago you ask an ordinary Joe of the road what are your aspirations he's going to say I'd like to ask clothes to wear I like to have some pots and pans for my wife can do some cooking I'd love to buy the lady some JaVale so that she converse in G well Sandy's are my aspirations this is what I'd like to do I ask a question who made all these things in India who made the textiles who made the pots and pans metal or earthen who made the jewels it was the Potter to the ironsmith it was the goldsmith it was a farmer's it was a textile worker and who are these guys were the Brahmins no they were also called so-called lower classes and the sugars the artisans were all this lower class and they were the ones with this 33% this is hiding that piece of data it's not the Brahmins who were the richest over there it's a so-called lower classes in India they produced every goat of interest for the economy so the economy is propped up by them and people wanted the Indian works that's why it was a very very high GDP then we talked focus on this rapid decline and see what is going on over here so in 1700 the East India Company came to India and they left a lot of senses on the schools and other things in the records and Darin Paul went to England and he studied these things I recommend the book a beautiful tree and he can download that and read it he's given a census of these schools so he says every village in India that had a temple had a school also in it which means we had hundreds of thousands of schools all over India there are several thing that jump out at to you first thing is why did India need so many schools economy was like that second thing he says what was a composition of the school he says more than 50% with the so called lower classes and a few more the forward classes here and there and Brahmins about five to six percent in each of these schools next thing the Ron Paul notes a British asked about the model for the school who's funding the school is it the Raja and they found that no it is a local population that are supporting the school so the people in that village would give a portion of the produce every year to the village temple and in return the priests would teach their children the farmers children the artisans children everybody's children are thought and they would support the economy in a certain way this was the model that is used in ancient India I have anecdotal evidence because my wife's family also used to do that they had ancestral lands and a produce of a portion of the produce it became into the country mutton in southern India that was the practice they had for a long time till it stopped because of economics and things like that so given that model I'd now like to talk to you about a second anecdote I'm gonna connect the dots I'm going to give a second anecdote United States chanced upon a I gotta think called the manifest destiny it was thought to be the white man's privilege from God the divine right from God because he must go back to story of Noah and his sons ham and others ham was a curse son who was made to support all the other sons with that idea the white people said we have God's mandate to civilize the world to control civilized world and they had a service that was a basis of slavery in the United States and for eradicating the Native Americans and all those things at the same period of time the British took inspiration from that and we got AB I got at law here called the doctrine of lapse so dalhousie brought the doctrine of lapse fully encouraged by this manifest destiny you can read some works that show the connections between these two ideas over there so this one says that if a british protectorate dies without a male son and the british will take over that land that was a doctrine of lapse like to tell you the story of tangia war how many know where thanjavur is a lot of heirlooms everybody know southern India Tamil Nadu beautiful place tangible has been the richest place in India for the longest time because it isn't the Delta of the Kaveri River the Kaveri River gave three paddy crops in a year because you have a very strong sunlight there and other such things three paddy crops on the riches of the Kaveri Delta the Cholas for example they built a magnificent British rat temple Kumbakonam you go you find millions thousands of temples over there they built a powerful navy that should go to Southeast China and all these things it is because of the riches of the Kaveri Delta the Cholas went up declined at some point we can talk about that later why the decline but that vacuum was filled in later on by the Vijay Nagar Vijay Nagar Empire came and protected this area from the Muslim invasions then with the Vijayanagar Empire fell the Murata rulers who were the chieftains on the Vijay Nagar they took earth on Java now approximately in this timeframe 1700 the French had landed it Tamil Nadu the French teamed up with Hyder Ali and they started attacking tan Java so the ruler shivaji ii he took the protection of the british to chase away these guys unfortunately the poor chap died and the British annexed Angela to a doctrine of lapse overnight the tax in Thanjavur changed from an enlightened 15 percent to more than 56 percent to more than 56 person that tax has changed when that happened the population could not afford to pay the tax the farmers could not offer to pay the tax the wife she could not afford to pay the tax the system started collapsing once they could not afford to pay the tax the British started confiscating so who are all the people disenfranchised the Kshatriyas the landlord's the zamindar's all with disenfranchise was a British power grab the farmers and the artisans why shares are all disenfranchised because the taxes the farmer could no longer give a portion of his produce to the temple so the learning in addition collapsed in India and the Brahmin was all sort of a job in that period of time the British took the money from the taxes and artisan knowledge they didn't have knowledge of making muslin or textiles or even steel at that time southern India Eureka is wood steel you had that Bessemer was not invented yet Bessemer was a driving process of industrial revolution that is later so they took all of this knowledge including mathematics sciences and other things with the money sponsored the Industrial Revolution so in San Industrial Revolution ramped up and the finished goods are forced upon Indians suddenly Indians are buying goods from Lancashire Manchester and all these places and guess who was out of a job the artisans nobody would buy the artisans products anymore widespread poverty all over India whether it is in the Brahmin class the Kshatriya class the washer class or the so-called artisan sugar a class everybody was impoverished by the British policy that is hiding here that is hiding over here this is a reason why MK Gandhi came and begged people where kadhi don't take foreign clothes because he was an eyewitness he was an eyewitness to the depredation of the British and was saying don't do that let's protect our economy our people that's the reason why he said all of these things so this graph over here like I said hides a law of things that we don't see in a mile high view I put that over here sunset on India so farmers artisans we talked about that British taxation collapse Industrial Revolution underwritten by Indian money and knowledge artisan classes impoverished by British manufactured goods and the next thing was at that time macula came to the scene macula came to the scene and said let's now distance the Indians from their systems from the traditional systems and introduce English education system at that time who was there - man the schools the out of a job Brahman out of job Brahman in order to eat and survive he became the school principal school teacher College if you see why they're disproportionately Brahmins over here the British favored them because they knew they were the respected people in society if they teach English maybe the others will come and learn with that purpose they favor the Brahmins over here and missionaries like Carol came turned around told the Dravidian you see the Brahmin he's a reason for your poverty having created poverty they turned round and told the confused classes that the Brahmins controlling access to education to jobs clerical systems and he's the one who has been keeping you down so the circle is complete the bigger tree the greed the avarice and everything the circle is complete this is what the British did in India all that is hiding in everything I wrote over here British education system collapse traditional learning disconnected people from roots missionaries further the divide taking advantage of large poverty torm a turmoil in the country you cannot go from here to here without severe psychological stresses you cannot anybody who goes from that point at this point has got enormous distress that is going to show up in the society in one way or the other society can become insular you can say us and then may start happening you may want to have your distance from somebody else maybe all the perversions of the so-called caste system that we are seen could have arisen because of this kind of a distress in the society so like I said this is hiding many many things over here yes so China was also going through British things the so-called opium wars and other such things the British are attempting to control the Chinese control the trade over there there's a reason why Hong Kong and Shanghai were the british outposts so they were trying to control trade over there hence yes from from west bengal those areas yes yes to control that and that is very important data point that's a very important data point because the British in textbooks we are told they introduced land reforms what they did was they went to the salmon there and said that 90 percent of producers hours ten percent is yours so landlord to maximize the ten percent increase cash crops opium indigo and other such things and there was no food grains that's why the famines in Bengal other such places because of British policies and I didn't tell the last part of the story when thanjavur became impoverished like that the only option for those people was to walk all the way to Chennai because they couldn't even offered bullock carts and things like that and go and sit on the docks in Chennai like that waiting to be picked up as an indentured laborer in Trinidad Tobago Mauritius Fiji Malaysia in all these places they're waiting to be picked as indentured laborers if today you're wondering how come in these West Indies in other places our two populations the thermal yin and the Bihari why because these are two places the British did this these are the two places the British did this these are the poor descendants of those people and there's the reason why there is the power impoverishment they caused the mechanisms that I told you about that is the reason alright so let's move on we talked about Will Durant last time so I'm not going to say the same thing but he also observed that Indians are taxed at two to three times the Scotland rate he also observes this in his book case for India he also talks about the national debt about in 1860 how does half a billion by 1929 when wealthier and left India how it had risen - excuse me 3.5 billion and so enormous the poverty that they had caused this is a researcher who who talked about this in November 21st 2018 just one week back or so in live mint there's a doctor would supper tonight so she says a British siphoned 45 trillion dollars from India in contrast with what bill Durance estimate was 3.5 billion in 1930 she says the overall from 1765 to 1938 is 45 trillion a couple of coats from what supper tonight she says this virtually no increase in per capita income between 1900 to 1946 no growth at all absolutely no growth and she says per capita annual consumption of food grains went down from 200 kgs in 1900 to 157 the eve of World War two and further plummeted down to 137 kg by 1946 this statement poignant statement is hiding a lot of reality all the famines are hiding here all the malnutrition is hiding here infant mortality is hiding here every decimal indicator of British colonial India health indicator is hiding here this is all because of what the British did so it is a very very sad thing what happened over here I'm willing to bet that almost everybody in this audience if you go back to your grandfather's time or your great grand for this time I'm willing to bet there with dirt-poor I'm willing to bet they didn't even have proper clothes to wear or good food to eat I'm willing to bet that because that was a story all over India very few Maharaja clauses the most of us were in this muck with the British left is it so so the first thing to talk about is precision precision is a phenomenon that the earth is doing under the gravitational action of the Sun Moon Jupiter and possibly Venus under that gravitational action the earth while it is rotating this is pointing to about 23 point 22 and odd degrees in the sky in the northern hemisphere rotating once in 24 hours west to east going around the Sun once in 365 point to four days but under the effect of precision it is also doing a slow circle in the sky that takes around 26,000 years a very very slow precision cycle so today we are pointing at Polaris is our Dhruva but yagna bulky of any road shuttle petha brahmana and 3000 BC turbine was rua at that time for him and there was a time when our budget was the full star vigor once again 12000 years from now our budget will be the pole star because of position then the Indian astronomical model so the Indian astronomical model was one of nakshatras and Rashi every day the Indians observed that ancient Indians the moon would appear in the eastern horizon at a different time and therefore in a different backdrop of the stars every day different time they also notice it is taking approximately 27 days to go back to the same phase so they divided the entire ecliptic into 27 segments and each segment is 13 and 1/3 degrees and these were the nakshatras for them so it's not enough to divide it you must also recognize it so in order to recognize I said what is the principal brightest star in each segment of the sky and that will give the name for the nakshatra ancient Indians were adept at pedagogy they knew that if they give by facts it's very tough to remember that's why the most of the Vedic verses and everything are very short process very very short process to remember so the ancient Indians brought the story of King Daksha King Daksha had 27 beautiful daughters and he married them all to Chandra and every day Chandra would visit one of his wives and that became the lunar mansions and the nakshatras encode the name of each of the moon's wives and there's a story behind each of those things those stories are encoding astronomical wisdom and through that we know what what different things are so these are the different nakshatras that you see ancient Indians also observe the concept of a month if the full moon appeared in Chitra nakshatra that month was called a chakra month yes sir Roni was very close to Chandra there is a concept yes it does it does it does I have it in a different presentation and I need to stop this presentation go there but I will tell you that because my thinking was to tell you about that so and I'll come to that just remind me if I fail I'll come to that story so check for a month if it's an in full moon is rigged Ashera there is a marker she Ramon so this way ancient Indians had the concept of nakshatra for the day and the lunar month they had both of them so these are a listing of the nakshatras in two of our ancient books weighed on the Geo tisha Surya Siddhanta and the principal star associated with each of these much it for us how this mapping happened when the British came to India they are funded what is that nakshatra when the pundits said the name they said we call it this name that that way colonialists were able to do the mapping between the nakshatras and the Western identification so we talked about this last time if somebody says Rama was born in China masa it means the full moon was in Chitra nakshatra because that month is Chara month and 180 degrees away is a son in Ashwin Enoch cetera because the Sun is 180 degrees away the moon is over here so we know that Sun is not shining when the moon was in in in Chitra nakshatra so just by saying Rama was born chai traumas are two pieces of data jump out at me if somebody says bashira to began in Arshad Amasa rainy season it means full moon is not Charlotte chakras son is in Pune rush nakshatra 180 degrees away but today's India rain is when the Sun is in the Orion Orion is bragging etc so there is a two nakshatra difference and that has happened because of the same precision we can compute the precision rate 26,000 divided by 27 gives you how many years per nakshatra is it going to recess and there is about 960 years so 960 times 2 gives approximately 2,000 years ago the statement was true and that's one color the kalidahs has mega delta this is how astronomers are able to take a measurement and then decode it without today's understanding of precision and other things and do this so this shows several things I like to point out this one at the center here is drew a is a pole star and whenever Indians talked about nakshatra it is always when the moon appears in the eastern horizon what section of the sky is it so last night 28 at 11:30 at night the moon was in Mogga this is the manga nakshatra over here so therefore from yesterday 11:30 onwards it is a Magan etcetera so today it might slip to the next one which is I think this is pure Phalguni so today's nakshatra might eventually go into pure ofall goony probably we still are under Mogga you may want to check in your Google and see what studies nakshatra that's a reason why I'd like to point out several other things sup the Rasheed that is over here Subterra she goes around druwa that's a piranha story right and you can see that happening here like the point at Abhijit these circles over here are projection of the Earth's latitudes and longitudes on the sky so they become celestial coordinates this is celestial North Pole 90 degrees 80 70 60 50 40 30 20 10 and zero zero is the celestial equator on the day of the equinox the Sun is exactly in the celestial equator then for six months the Sun would appear to go north and north towards the North Pole for six months up to twenty three point two degrees then retracts south and south and south and go up to minus twenty three point three degrees this is ultra and the Dutch China so ancient Indians knew about the solstice points the extremer and they could measure how long the Sun takes to go from one point to the other and they got it exactly at 365 point two for odd days this is how they measure the solar year in addition so we got the solar year they knew the nakshatra then use a lunar month and the lo haría and they were able to add the concept of adi Kumasi because to get the synchrony between the lunar and the solar calendar they knew every four years five years or so they must add Adi Kumasi that'll bring things to synchrony so our ancestors were experts at understanding the night sky understanding the movements of heavenly bodies and making sense into a calendar trying to make sense of lunar our calendar making sense of all of these things plus in addition they had equations mathematics to do all of these things today when somebody says all of these things are in geo TV show Sarah Pavlovian response people say oh it's horoscope I don't believe in all these things so it's a very pathetic indication of where we have landed up today however for the ancient Indians this was very precise Atlantic mathematics lots of mathematics had talked about the equation of motion of Venus equation of motion of Venus of the moon equation of motion of Mars they knew all these things they're able to estimate constants of that they were able to estimate when that transit would happen when an occultation would happen when would an eclipse happen what will be the duration of the Eclipse all these things are able to compute because they did not only plane our trigonometry planar technology means on a plane they did circular trigonometry spherical trigonometry they were able to do that so this is the kind of things our ancestors have done and all is hiding in this little thing so when an Indian agent will come out to the night sky just look at the sky he'll be able to tell you exactly which nakshatra what is going on and all those kind of things today we are lost ability so we can't do this Kaliyuga talked about this earlier rare planet conviction of Saturn Jupiter Mars Venus mercury Sun Moon and Ray with Enoch cetera the reason why we need to understand Kali Yuga is Aryabhatta gives us rage with respect to Kali Yuga and temples and Karnataka and bother me in epigraphy they talk about the age with respect to Kali Yuga if you don't know what this means you can't date any of these things the British came to India and they decoded this as 18 February 3102 BCE and it instantly caused some heartburn it caused some heartburn if you remember the first thing that I said about Noah's Flood 3,000 BCE in their worldview they could not admit that you have a chronological data point that goes beyond Noah's Flood this was a data point that caused all the problems in the British mucking around our chronology it started over here so the so that this was found by them at 1850 3102 BCE simulated this in the calendar in my planetarium software and what you see is this is the ground line over here and you see that Revathi nakshatras here Mangala is here son is here Chandra is here shukran is Venus is here guru Jupiter is here Buddha and mercury is here Shani's sitting out there it spread over a couple of nakshatras but the least-squares fit appears to be INRI with thee this did not happen for more than 26,000 years there was a clustering 6600 b.c but that was in a different nakshatra it is not in gravity in gravity at least for 26,000 years this did not happen so with great precision we can say that kali yuga perhaps is this one as described in arya but here or Surya Siddhanta in that tradition this is the start Martha van Apoorva has a dialogue Indra and Skanda contesting in subjects nakshatra Kritika platies went to wanna summer socials he the summer Abhijit slipped down the sky british jumped up on this to discredit it and said that here's an example of ridiculousness in indian text that he can't trust them they're unreliable they're talking about unphysical things then pvwatts said that it is encoding an astronomical phenomenon he said it is encoding a time when our budget was a pole star it was a pole star approximately fourteen thousand years ago and by the time the Mahabharata war was written down it no longer was a pole star it appeared to have fallen in the sky so it appears that there was cultural memory of a budget being the pole star passed down generation by generation until such time our birth was written down and appeared that it was no longer the pole star that appears to be encoded then critical at the summer solstice happened 24,000 years ago a very staggering amount of time that is encoded in some of our measurements the implication is Rashi's have probably been observing the skies for more than twenty four thousand years that is what this is telling us 14,000 years ago simulated this and you can see our budget is over here at the pole star point in the earlier graphic of somewhere over here what appeared to have fallen in the sky but 14,000 years ago it's a Polestar shut epatha brahmana it has a statement that Kritika never swerves from the east again an intriguing data point written by Rishi Aetna valkia you know today he was writing a manual for the Vedic practitioner if your guest is coming from that door your door is over there I can't do namaste over here it is very very disrespectful the guest is coming there I need you to never stay over there all the Vedic homas were done for Agni or Surya and so they needed to point to where is he going to rise the sky I need to put my Vedic home up it over here the bricks I need to arrange and so I face acne as soon as it comes and start my fire and start the ritual that was the idea so you ignore what K wanted to tell the practitioner where is the east direction if I ask somebody here there is Easter they'll say oh well the sunrise that's east direction unfortunately because of Athena and duck Shanina the Sun seems re-track more and more to the north then more and more to the south so where is the east direction it's not here here here here here here and here it's not the Sun is pointing to east only on the day of equinox on the day of equinox it is exactly the true east direction so there was a period of time when yagna Valkyr wrote shut epatha brahmana and in his time Kritika was pointing through that because it was on the celestial equator this is the celestial equator criticals over here therefore he wrote critical never swers from the east you can light your fire under critical that's what he wrote and that refers to this knowing this so this is the ground line vedic practitioner would have got up when to still dark then a ritual bath come outside and looked at various critic are still dark in the sky criticals over there then maybe about half an hour or one hour later Sun rises and Kritika is out in the sky but sun is there Kritika is a straight line you start putting a bit that is the idea so this is true for plus minus 100 years around this time frame approximately still true so amazing data point that shows a Vedic concept in place much before the so called are in invasion ty three sometta six point five point three talks about Kritika the winter solstice that works - 8 9 to 1 BCE one more of those ancient data points sitting over there conclusion from here is that dates preserved and brahmanas and opener shirts show very great antiquity Kali Yuga dates shows a Vedic concept in place before the alleged are in migration and this evidence of great antiquity of Indians backed by archaeological finds - today we have Indiana urban finds up to 9,000 years ago so the dates that we find in archaeology also supports this it was not true some time back but today it is more more true now let me go back to the question you asked you asked a story from the Puranas you said that the / onyx story says after Daksha had married his daughters to the Chandra he heard that Chandra favors Rohini more than the other wives and he was furious with a son-in-law how can he favor one of his daughters and not treat them all equally so he curses Chandra and says that you will fade and die and Chandra runs off to Mahadeva and he prays to Mahadeva please protect me and mother began grants him a boon and says that you will not die you will fade and fade and fade and become dark and again you will grow that's why even today in Mahadeva you find the symbol of the Sun sorry the moon that's remembering that story so what is the story all about that is the question well I did some studies on that and I had a TED talk on this he searched for my name on a TED talk you'll find where I discussed this when in relation to decoding the stories and some of our Puranas so it turns out that when the Sun is going sorry the moon is going on the ecliptic it sometimes comes close to a principal star and sometimes it fully covers a principal star okay sometimes it goes over sometimes it covers it when it covers it from our view if this is the star and this is the moon from your perspective the moon is covered the star that is the idea this is called a lunar occupation so I did a study of how often does a lunar occultation happen with all the principal stars of the nakshatras it turns out that the principle stars are divided in the ecliptic ecliptic is a line on which the Sun Moon appeared to go so from the ecliptic how many degrees away are the principal stars that is a question if the nakshatra star is greater than six degrees from the ecliptic it'll never be occulted if it is between four degrees and six degrees it will experience a cluster of I think I forgotten the exact numbers it experiences a cluster of occupations let me just say that one huge cluster of occupations in a four year period or four years you'll find that it's clustered that if it is less than four degrees then it will have two sets of occultation separated by a period of time that is what it is then I try to find how often are the various nakshatras occulted by no turns out that in this four year period ending in this year 2018 2014 to 2018 rouhani which is Alda braun was a cultic 56 times 56 times by the sun sorry the moon and the next nearest one was critical critical the occupations ended in 2009 or 2008 that time frame and there were 24 occultations 24 occultations with critical and about 56 with Rohini and it will repeat all over after 19 years after 19 years once again you will get a cluster of four years great local treat and nineteen years of silence so ancient Indians had observed that there was such a phenomenon happening over nineteen year period more many nineteen year periods comparing how often does a moon visit his wives and finally figure out that he likes a loganing more than the others so that astronomical wisdom is encoded in a pure onyx story a romantic Quranic story which we remember today it is so easy to remember that Chandra loved Rohini but we all lost the key to unlocking that wisdom so my research in the TED talk showed that it is basically this phenom and there is encoded over here the occultation phenomenon so I hope that answers your question okay so coming - how old's the Indian civilization this has not changed much from last year genetic shows the ancient people living continuously 85,000 years ago archeology now shows artifacts from 1 million years ago and astronomical observation shows artifacts from 24 thousand years ago so very very ancient knowledge or rather evidence of antiquity in India like to conclude with Indian knowledge systems I'd like to show there's no conflict of knowledge with the philosophy of the land this is the theme and what I'm going to talk about over here and we'll explain that in a few slides last year also we talked about knowledge systems shruthi that which is heard Veda some hitters brahmanas irony occurs Upanishads for example mantras hymns prayers commentaries and hymns and rituals rituals philosophy these are all the contents of these ancient texts and thus pretty that which is remembered Veda angers all grammar meter Astronomy ritual city houses these texts Puranas Caviar's sutra Shastras various schools of philosophy nee blunders lots of things were present in India such that anybody could find intellectual expression within the frameworks that existed in the country with absolutely no conflict with the philosophy we live in a strange world today where science is in conflict with a dominant religious system of the world the Abrahamic systems cannot accommodate science because of the history centrism so over here Darwin came about saying theory of evolution and instantly the fundamentalists went on a warpath saying that no how is it possible we didn't descend from that God created man in His image which means we look like God and perfectly we cannot have descended from apes so it caused great ruckus and outrage of them and even till today in United States there are states for example Louisiana where they used to stamp on the science textbooks that theory of evolution is only a theory I am not joking even during gentles time even during the so-called enlightened Gentiles time they're stamping on that in the history high school history textbooks to tell the children beware what you're learning is not true so such things are there but in India we never had a conflict of science and technology and is a sorry sign and philosophy and there's a reason for that if you look at this one one-line descriptions of the Indian schools we talked about this last year - Nia he has said all knowledge is not intrinsically valid most knowledge is not valid unless proven truth exists whether we humans know it or not not chapada Gautama was a Russia who had said that white shaker perception inference Russia Kannada some clear systematic enumeration rational examination Kapila pure mimamsa talked on reflection consideration profound thought investigation examination discussion rashid gemiini talked about that Lutheran Imams or Vedanta up to ten schools and Adi Shankara one of the exponents of advaitha and you can see that the indict thoughts admitted a lot of mechanisms for knowledge these are profound statements over here very profound statements that admit the the process of knowledge gathering if you look at this slide the means of knowledge of pramana in the Indian context you could look at perception inference comparison analogy postulation derivation from circumstances negative proof or shove the pramana relying on word of experts and you will see that every sampradaya in india only differed on under what authority are you admitting knowledge that was the basis for example a char Bacchus the traditional ATS in Indian context the only admitted perception if I can see it it's true otherwise it's not I reject the way there's no such things and the Buddhists they said only perception and inference nothing else is valid as a mechanism for knowledge this is what Buddha did right he went through a process of players and tribulations and realized some truths that's what he said why Shekar similarly starts admitting several other things over here Dwight the Jainism and advaitha takes from every school that you can see over here so what is the bottom line today we live in a world where if you're doing your PhD thesis for example maybe Electrical Engineering you're going to say that I refer to this I Triple E Journal on the authority of this man who published in this journal I am going to write my a thesis I wrote this and reference number one number two and a literature survey this is what you do you are relying on shabda pramana of some professor over there or maybe you're going to say this Nobel Prize winner said this on the basis of that I'm going to do my work I'm referencing this man on his authority I'm writing my work so this is the way we claim knowledge systems today on the authority of somebody else who did something else in ancient India you can see it as a much more broader context and understanding the sources of knowledge what is a valid means for knowledge and so on today you have AB I got it narrator in the Marxist textbook that I pulled the Buddhist the James and others out of the Indyk dharmic context however the only difference of sampradaya is what is it that you're admitting as knowledge that is only difference everybody in the dharmic tradition believed in Dharma they bear it in karma they believed in reincarnation this bedrock was there for all of them the only things that differed was what is knowledge and how am I going to admit it that was the only difference and this picture over here summarizes a lot of Indic philosophies and knowledge so it's good to know what is the goal of life if you ask a Hindu what is the goal of life the Hindus goal of life is to dispel a big fear from our minds about the true nature of who I am and this dispelling of idea might happen in one lifetime or across multiple lifetimes depending on my Karma this is our understanding so the Indic formula has been to dispel of idea and to gain with you and these are all the mechanisms for gaining knowledge to gain knowledge of your true self to understand there's no separation between creator and created to understand we have part of the cosmos to understand that's only ego and our attachment to the world of objects that prevents me from understanding the same neurons in both of us these kind of ideas of Vedanta are all encoded when the Hindu is urged one-line statement who is a Hindu what is your goal life to dispel of idea about my true existence that such it on and there's a state that I need to go into that is the idea of a Hindu in the Abrahamic tradition the goal of life is to follow a divine dictated law so God gave the Ten Commandments to one of the prophets and the goal in life is to follow those Ten Commandments or Christ set certain things that his followers the Apostles the Gospels they wrote down what he said and if you believe that he died on the cross for your sins and he's only way to the father is through the son then you're saved either you go to heaven or eternal damnation depending on the falling of the law similarly the Muslims also if you believe that Muhammad the Prophet he heard from Archangel Gabriel who dictated the Word of God to him and if you follow the Quran injunctions then maybe the mercy of Allah you'll be saved or you'll have eternal damnation so the goal in life for Abrahamic people is follow divine dictated law none of this is relevant none of this is relevant because knowledge or any such thing is irrelevant your only goal admission to heaven or eternal damnation those are the only two things and the only formula is you follow a divine dictated law whereas in the Hindu ideas it was you dispel a Vidya about your existence and that will happen based on your karma fala based in this lifetime or across multiple lifetimes depending on the kind of life you live and at every lifetime you're enjoying the pond depending on which sampradaya are born into to admit certain knowledge based on these things okay so this is all I wanted to say about knowledge systems about how every knowledge in India whether it was mathematics astronomy philosophy but it was grammar prosody music medicine you name it everything coexisted with the philosophy of the land everything was embedded in the philosophy of the land everything gives citation to Brahma this knowledge came from Brahma Brahma thought it - whinnies actually started - maybe Pune wushu atreya or - Bharadwaj borrows words give to somebody and so on so every knowledge in the Indic context goes back and says Brahma gave us knowledge loser I don't want to go there no sir what but he will come back to that we'll come back to that so yeah you're right what what is Brahma away here the concept is important Brahma is seen as a symbol symbol for the Creator he's a person who calls upon creation srimad-bhagavatam talks about that he calls upon the creation depending on pralaya and so on so he's the one who's supposed to do that we'll talk about in the Q&A maybe a little later so last time it talked about evidence of knowledge outflow of India so this time I just put it into high level headings we already talked about many of these things don't want repeat it but when people say if you claim that knowledge went out of India which is contrary to what people like David Pingree and others are saying that Babylonians thought Indians the Greek thoughts Indians and knowledge came into India we were very good students but we never were teachers according to the narrator of the West but however I'm claiming something else the Vedic records of migration for example that Srikant allegory if you read that 3000 BC or soul appears that knowledge from India might have gone out to the west we talked about Saraswathi in this climate changed induced migration 2,000 BCE getting out of India if you listen to my talk on antiquity of Indian medical systems on YouTube I have talked about how I read acknowledge the echoes of I bathe acknowledge is there in the Hittites and Mitanni zal amides and Egyptians and so on so in this time frame a lot of contact with Indians is there the Mycenaeans are the Greek people and every Greek story has got a parallel with an Indian story in the Perron extort how is it possible so this is the pre Homeric period so around 1000 BCE so I'm claiming there's contact from that time itself with India which is why does these things evidence for these assertions internal evidence of Vedas we talk to our own review correlation with climate change records appearance of sanskritic people Middle East echoes of Indyk thought in those cultures strong parallels and stories of astronomy and so on and travel by Greek scholars to India we know about Pythagoras we know what Democritus we know what PI Ron we know about all these people because in Greece there was a tradition knowledge is not completely go to India Ethiopia Egypt get knowledge and come back so there was a tradition in those countries to travel to these places and come back 3000 BC to 300 BC all of these are the routes then after Alexander he left behind several kingdoms over here facilitated knowledge exchange from Mediterranean lands from India to Mediterranean lands Silk Route was a third mechanism all over Southeast Asia to China from India all the way to Mediterranean lands we had trading ropes and this was also the period of Buddhist time with the Buddhists we're taking knowledge for example who and sang for here and all these people came on the Silk Road they came to India through touch the Shilla on the Silk Route into India I'd like to give the example of the board manuscript boa manuscript is the oldest extant manual a manuscript of Indian medicine that is present in the country today it's written on birch bark document and threatened in Gupta Brahmi script because in Gupta Brahmi script we can talk about the age of some of these things and it seems to have several things it talks about the Russia Czar 3er it talks about para Shara and other Rishi's and it has got bailiffs Amita it has got portions of Charaka Samhita it has got the dosha as it talks about Martha with a capo it also talks about like the dosha in some places so this document was found in Kashgar somewhere over here cash Carson Jian province and it was given to a British officer called Boer that's why it's called bore manuscript and the fact that Indian knowledge was in a trade route is proof that even Indian knowledge was carried along with trade people to rest of the world that is the evidence we talked about paralysis of Eritrean see there is a port sailors document the Roman sailors have come from Mediterranean lands cross the land bridge over here go wherever there's water navigable they trade in all these ports and west coast of India and some on the east coast of India during this time also we know about knowledge exchange Muslim transmissions I talked about that last time won't go into great detail but all the way from Sindh up to Spain through these sorry BIA Egypt Algeria Morocco up to Spain there was transmission of Indyk knowledge translations of Sanskrit works were made into Arabic ever since Ben Carson came to that part of India in 711 the works like Charaka Samhita works like dramas put a Siddhanta so many other works are translated and given rather taken away and injected up to Spain then we know that European church travellers from 10th century to 19th centuries they took knowledge directly from India and to Europe then this knowledge I'm showing during Greek and Roman time Indic knowledge ceded their cultures however when the Roman Empire became Christian they destroyed all that Constantine 300 current IRA adopted Christianity of the state religion and his successor Theodosius he went on a rampage basically allowed the destruction of all the so-called pagan institutions that was a time the new converts started burning down the libraries the temples and other such things in Greece in other places all the indignity which they had stored there was destroyed when when the Christians went on the rampage during this timeframe however some of that knowledge has survived in in Roman lands not loosely connected with like Syria Lebanon Israel these places it's Sur void and this knowledge was inherited by the Muslims who also took knowledge destructively from India so people like al biruni they've got the Greek works and that studied that then they came to India studied Sanskrit and he was able to study Sanskrit works so they're able to do side-by-side comparison one of the first scientists today we are lucky we live in the year of Google where we can take documents from anywhere in the world do compared to study but in the ancient times you have to go to that place and copy the document otherwise your knowledge system was routed over here so that multi-regional knowledge systems I think the Muslims were very lucky so that's why you have people like Alfa's Ali al-ghazali and so many other penis scientists who took Indyk knowledge and made great advances in the time frame you can look up a place called bath House of Wisdom if you google for it you'll find how Harun al-rashid he was a caliph he instituted that in Baghdad and that promoted Science and Technology in those lands in contrast the same period of time and later the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughal period they never invested in science and technology in India they were completely given to vices and other such things using the money but not an economic productivity and saving science and such things so whereas the Muslims in blood that were scientifically oriented the Muslims in India were fundamentally oriented so there's a different things that happen in India so this knowledge but the Muslims was injected into Spain where during that period of time there's a translation School in Toledo whose only job and Christian Toledo was a translate Arabic text into Latin so we know of get out of cremona who has translated eighty-seven Arabic texts into Latin and solve them included Indian texts that are translated into Arabic and now translated into Latin that is how Western Europe which was under the clutches of the church backwardness poverty illiteracy and disease that was the state of Western Europe ever since they became Christian the dark ages from three hundred car interior all the way to fourteen hundreds or so this is a state of that nation and at that time in Western Europe did send the eldest born son to India sorry to to let Muslim Spain to learn they'd go to Spain and learn at the feet of the Muslims to learn because Muslim knowledge is superior to their own knowledge systems so this is a time when Western Europe was ramping up on the Indian knowledge you should also remember this was a time when Western Europe was using the Roman numerals we have evidence that Hindu numerals and positional or thematic and zero did not become widespread in Europe until the late 1500s it's only after fifteen hundreds it became popular earlier than that they were using Latin Roman numerals and how much can you do with Roman numerals just imagine adding deploying huge numbers you can't do that so that's why they're sciences technology was backward you may like to read a book called universal history of numbers by Georgia feh so he calls out a lot of these kinds of things then at a time when Western Europe was finally able to take over even the Muslim lands basically Ferdinand and Isabella so they were the ones of the Pope's blessings and other Christian armies they were able to go and conquer Muslim Spain they were able to take the Spain back of Christianity they went through a period of Inquisition the Inquisition was seen to cleanse their society of Muslim influenced Jewish influence and these things and anybody found in possession of Muslim knowledge was seen as taking knowledge from Satan and he was immediately either killed or forced to recant and all those kinds of things there so this resulted in all the so-called Renaissance scholars hiding their sources they wouldn't say that they got that knowledge from Indian texts or Greek texts because they were all seen as coming from Muslims so there's huge problem in society at that time but at any rate Renaissance is supposed to have happened a flowering of so-called European thought unquestioningly obeyed and listened to wires today without criticizing and the colonialists 16th century 20th century Portuguese Dutch French British they also came to India took a lot of knowledge and all that has come back to history repackaged and without citations and our people start thinking that oh my goodness these are people who are gone all the way to Jupiter look at the computers look at their mathematics where are we we were a superstitious lot backward perimeter but we don't realize where did it come from where did this come from where if the philosophy come from where the knowledge systems come from where the medicine come from where the numbers come from not one of us are equipped to question these because our own education system has made us ignorant that is a tragedy because we don't know what our ancestors did we don't know that we are the inheritors of this knowledge unfortunately so here's a paper that I wrote in waves 2018 you can download this the free PDF this talks about the selected contributions of India to knowledge systems I given several particular references more than fifty to sixty references are there so you can see particular knowledge systems that have taken we talked about this Spanish Inquisition knowledge from Satan and savage retribution Renaissance scholars hit their sources passed off their Greek and Indian Indian works as their own original works however because their works on astronomy math medicine are all created by Indian and Greek works and the ignore citation I call them plagiarizing so this conclusion has not changed from last year the same conclusion this still call them plagiarizing so here's the grand conclusion of this talk so we started on the premise that we are revisiting last year's talk and revisiting with the evidence that we have and see we went through a lot of new evidence that has come since last year and we are still in a position to say the mainstream narrative was utterly by gotten it's wrong there is no arguing invasion theory evidence shows an out of India Theory evidence shows Indyk thought impacted east and west evidence shows that we are a very ancient civilization indict thought seeded the Greeks and the Babylonians rather than borrowing from them finally we did a deep dive into poverty and we can know fully well that invasions are responsible for widespread poverty in India so thank you for your support thank you very much for listening [Applause] you
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Channel: Sangam Talks
Views: 279,413
Rating: 4.8153954 out of 5
Keywords: Aryan Invasion Theory, AIT, India, India Inspires Talks, Aryan invasion india, india history, indian history, history of india, history, india documentary, ancient india, indus valley civilization, Aryan migration theory, indo-aryan, indo Aryan migration, indo-aryan migration theory, Aryan invasion, migration theory (Truth or fiction) India documentary, 5000 Years History of India documentary, Indian Civilization, Aryan Migration Theory, Aryan-Dravidian, Srijan Talks, sangam talks
Id: 1bsyi4zYHP0
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Length: 131min 46sec (7906 seconds)
Published: Wed Jun 26 2019
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