The idea that yes we're all individuals but that
means we all have individual responsibility as well and that responsibility is for the wider
community. We have an obligation to each other as well as to ourselves. It's taking away
parents’ responsibilities and rights which go hand-in-hand and it's replacing them with the
state. I understand that people are scared of sticking their head above the parapets but unless
people start to do it then we're all victims and I think the more of us that stand up, I often say,
‘they can't cancel all of us’, it's not possible. Calvin Robinson, thank you very much for coming
to speak with me today. An absolute pleasure. We met briefly in London, I think, just before
Easter we're going to have slightly more, I think, than the three minutes that we had together then.
It was a very fruitful three minutes though. Well thank you, it's very kind of you to say so. It's
sort of nice that the boots on the other foot now, I'm gonna have a bit more time with you and
I'm gonna be the guy asking the questions. Now you're living in London, people might
assume you're a Londoner but actually you hail from Mansfield, don't you? But your career started
pretty much in London as in a school and you're a head of computer science. So I
just want to ask to what extent has your background in Mansfield, working class
background, your time in school, how much has that shaped your thinking and your political
views and the things that you're passionate about today? Oh big time. So I'm from all over the
place but I was born and bred in Mansfield, I've spent the last 15 years in London so I
consider myself pretty much a Londoner at this point although I've just spent two years studying
in Oxford so, you know, I'm a bit of a nomad. But Mansfield is one of those places where people just
say what they think and they mean what they say and they're quite upfront but in a nice honest
way. And I think we've lost a lot of that, down south at least. Whenever I go up north I
realise that people are still normal which is why it's nice to be here. But in London we tread
on egg shells and we talk around subjects, we never get to the meat and veg, everyone's become
a politician, you never know what people think. So I try to at least bring a bit of common sense
to what I'm saying and people in London think it's strange or unique or you know special, it's
not, I'm just a typical Midlander really. But it's being born and bred in the Midlands has shaped my
political perspective because, you know, my mother was a single parent, a very hard-working single
parent and she always works at least two jobs, she was a school teacher and then, you know, sometimes
she'd work in a bar at night in the evening or she'd do whatever she could to earn extra money.
Usually she ran play groups, she ran nurseries and that showed me a work ethic from the
beginning. In similar situations in our neighborhood that their parents didn't work or
that if they had a single parent, that parent would stay at home and they'd be on more money
than what my mother would be on. It was actually better to be dependent on the State, it was
better- you'd be better off to not do anything and not contribute to your family and not to
be an active part of the community or society. And I thought that's back to front, you know,
surely the welfare system should be a safety net for people who can't work, it should be
there to support people who need it but everyone should be encouraged to contribute and to
be a part of the social life and the cohesion that brings us all together. What about what about your
time in school then, how did that add or change or shape that thinking? Well I entered school after
working in industry for a good few years and that was mind-blowing because in industry I was
working with people that didn't think like me and that wasn't a problem and there was real diversity
of thought and opinion and then I got into school, I got into education and it was an echo chamber.
It was, you know, there was a hive mind mentality of what I would call lefty-liberal progressive
views or what's now known more as ‘wokism’. And it was being pushed, not just in the cohort of
staff but on the students as well, the pupils were being indoctrinated towards a left-wing
mentality as if that's the only appropriate way of thinking. I thought this, you know, this
is toxic, it's not helpful for the young people, it's not helpful for society and we need to
stamp it out. So I started writing about what I was seeing. We'll come to that. So you've
got these various forces that are shaping your thinking but of course the other massive influence
is your Christian faith. Perhaps you could share a little bit about your journey to faith. Yeah and
that has massively shaped my politics because I like to think if we're living a Christian life it
should affect every aspect of our life including our politics. Absolutely. I used to be more
libertarian and now I'm more small 'c', socially conservative and I think that's because I've
seen the left tend to be massively collectivists, they tend to see that we are- we all belong in
these boxes based on our immutable characteristics and I think that's a power struggle. I think
that's a way of controlling demographics but it's all about the collective. And then the right
tend to be based on individualism and everyone's, you know, everyone is their own god and everyone
can dictate their own reality and I don't think individualism is the answer to collectivism and I
think what my faith has shown me is that there's some nuance in between. And, you know, call it
Christianity, call it Communitarianism, whatever you want. But that the idea that, yes, we're all
individuals but that means we all have individual responsibility as well and that responsibility is
for the wider community. We have an obligation to each other as well as to ourselves. And I think
my side of the political divide often forget that. But the spiritual journey has been a long one,
you know, I grew up, I went to Baptist Sunday school with my grandmother, it was, you know,
it was colouring in and stuff, it wasn't really that helpful for my faith. I always felt like I
had a relationship with God and I always prayed and I always felt like my prayers were answered
so that was a very important relationship to me. But I did not know Jesus Christ until I became an
adult until I- and I was always searching and it took me a long time to find him. And I didn't
know what I was searching for but when I found him I realised that's what it was all along.
Fantastic, well I don't know really when you, let's say came to public attention. I mean you
were the face of DfE campaign for a while weren't you? In terms of getting people into teaching. But
certainly when you came to my attention, I think, would have been around, I think 2018. I think
it was connected to the Battle of Ideas and I think at the time you were still teaching or
maybe just coming out of teaching but you were explaining some of the things that you've just
explained about the influence of unhelpful political thought on children and the pushing of
one particular political and social set of views. But when we were talking last night, one of the
things that you said, we were talking about how, you know, some people, you have a secret barrister
or you have the secret- you have people who are blogging about stuff or what have you. But for you
it was important to own it. They were your words 'the importance of owning it'. Yeah. Why was that
so important? Because if what I'm seeing is wrong and I think there is a universal truth that we
should be striving towards then I have to put my name on it and I think if I shied away, you know
there are a lot of people that call themselves the secret barrister, secret teacher etc, I think
that is being embarrassed of what you believe in. And I understand that people are scared of
sticking their head above the parapets but unless people start to do it then we're all victims and
I think the more of us that stand up, I often say they can't cancel all of us, it's not possible.
But we have to affirm our faith and affirm our values and what I saw going on in education
was wrong and I had to stand up against it. Well I think you and I would both agree that
it's become increasingly controversial to speak the truth or perhaps just challenge
particular narratives and so on that basis alone you're quite controversial, if
that's your definition of controversy. And there has been a lot of controversy around
you just in recent weeks, so let's talk about that briefly because, in a nutshell, you challenged
the notion that the Church of England was institutionally racist and I think you've been
quite open about saying you're not denying that racism exists, you just say that the Church of
England is not institutionally racist and that wasn't terribly well looked upon. It is annoying
but I do have to caveat it every single time that racism does exist, I know this because I've
experienced it first-hand. It's an evil that we need to work on but you know, I don't think
it's appropriate to paint an entire institution as racist unless there's evidence to support that
claim. I don't think it's appropriate to paint this country as systemically or institutionally
racist because that kind of tallies all of us and actually it's the individual
racists that need to be held to account and we can't pass the buck and put the blame
on to society as a whole, I think that's lazy and I think it avoids- actually, first of all
it devalues actual racism that is happening, that does need addressing but it avoids addressing
the wider societal issues and quite often people see a racial disparity and assume it's down to
racism but actually class is a massive factor, far bigger factor than race in this country as
to someone's outcomes. And we see this across, you know, education is a great example that people
say 'education in this country is institutionally racist'. I'm like, well let's look at- let's
dig down into the numbers and see because, yes black Caribbean kids are under-performing but
they're at the same level as white British kids. What is the commonality there? Actually, well,
it's the working-class kids and it's the kids in the areas of deprivation and if we look at the
top end of the scale, black African kids are outperforming everybody. So I don't think there
are any people many people that are racist only towards black Caribbeans that wouldn't be racist
towards black Africans. So I don't think it's institutional racism, I think it's a wider
societal issue of actually we need to raise the standards for all kids especially those in
working-class backgrounds. So the controversy really that arose, your curacy which had
been lined up within the Church of England went away, it disappeared, it was put on
hold, you know, the vacancies which have been there were no longer there and so on and
so forth. Which has led you to this point of becoming part of the Free Church of
England and so you will have seen, you've been aware of the Church of
England's views on a whole host of things. Why did you put yourself through the training
and, I mean, you must have known that there was going to be, sort of, push-back for someone with
your views? It's a good question, I always knew this battle was coming, I expected it to be years
down the line. Right. But the reason I joined the Church of England is because, well first of all,
that's where I first experienced Christ and I see that as the primary expression of church in this
land. It's not a choice, I didn't go shopping for denominations, I just happened to be in England
and the Church of England is the established church of this realm so it wasn't a case of I
want to align myself with these woke progressives, it was just this is where we are, this is my
local parish church, this is the institution. But I think the controversy is being Christian
in the Church of England at the moment, you know, the clergy and the laity are but to get past
gatekeepers, to get past the bishops and the selection panels, you almost have to be shy about
your faith and they seem to have this idea that Christ was nice and never rebukes anyone, he was
meek and mild and never stood up for the truth. I think they've got a misunderstanding
of who Christ is and I think they just want to use him as a nodding dog
to affirm their political views and their lifestyles rather
than living out the faith as handed down to us in the Bible. They want to live
out their faith, their lifestyle as they see fit and let their faith affirm it. It's back to front.
I don't know how to help with that. I wanted to, kind of, help nudge the Church back in the right
direction and I think there are many people that are in that situation, that want to reform
from within. But I've come to realise that is the Brexit's argument of the remain side. I don't
think it's possible always to reform from within, and I think at this point there is no place
for me in the Church of England. I hope there is a place for people like me, I hope there is
a place for conservatives whether theologically or politically within the Church of England, I
really do. I don't see it but... Do you think that the move that you've made and the coverage
that it's attracted, do you think that will give people in the Church of England pause
for thought, do you think it will have an influence on them to rethink or do you just think
that they're going to be happy to see the back of you? I hope so, so I hope the media attention that
I've gained has been helpful and my main aim right now is to shift it away from me personally and on
to the issue of faith and the issue of Anglicanism in this country because a lot of people think
that Anglicanism is synonymous with the Church of England and obviously that's not the case. And the
reason I'm joining the Gafcon movement is because they affirm orthodox Anglicanism around the world
and they're very strong in Africa, they're very strong in North America. In fact, today, as we
record this a couple of archbishops have come out and chastised the Archbishop of Canterbury because
he's been playing politics again and saying, you know, by not coming to the Lambeth Conference
you are being unbiblical and they're saying no actually, what's unbiblical is you trying to
promote homosexual marriage and undermining core tenants of the faith, that's unbiblical and this
is the reason we are not engaging on this topic. So I think there are very, very important
movements that are encouraging and I want to redirect the traffic towards them. Did
you ever think I've got this platform on the media, instantly recognisable,
maybe I'll use that as my means to minister rather than taking up a curacy and going
to ordination and following through on that? Did anyone ever say to you what on earth are you
doing? Sort of, not that you're leaving it, but setting it aside to some degree in order to become
a pastor? Yeah, over the last few years I've been approached several times by think tanks and
broadcasters who have offered me quite significant salaries to just to drop the ministry and to
go full time in broadcast work or media work or political think tank work. And as nice
as it is to be offered these positions, it's not my calling. You know, my vocation
is parish ministry, ordained ministry, administering the sacraments and being a
pastoral guide to my congregation, that's what I'm called to do. I'm gonna, as far as I can,
use the platform that I've been gifted to spread the Good News but that is not the goal in and
of itself. Okay, well, The Christian Institute, we talk an awful lot about the importance of being
salt and light, we talk about the significance of standing for Christ in the public square. We're
often criticised that the stands that we take get in the way of the Gospel quote unquote, that what
we should be- what people need to worry about, what Christians need to worry about is preach
the gospel. Now we would take the position that- and you use the words right near the
outset, that the gospel affects every area of life. I'm just going to do a shameless plug
for our Living Christianity series here. This is, please take that with our compliments. Thank you
very much. So this is a series which talks about being a full-time disciple, how our
Christian faith affects every area of life. So we can't partition it and if we're
going to follow the full counsel of God, that is going to influence our thinking and must
influence our thinking in a whole host of areas. Now, the church can get a lot of criticism
about its involvement in politics. Now, we would draw a distinction between politics and
party politics, we're not party political, we're charities, we're not party political in any way,
shape or form. There would be some who would, say, throw the criticism at the Church of England
to, say, or perhaps the church more widely that they're prepared to speak out on,
let's call them party political issues, but not so much the issues that we would deal with
here. So it might be okay to take a particular position on, let's say, taxation, just as an
example or, let's say, whether particular statues should be in place or not be in place. Those kind
of things are okay to talk about but don't be talking about marriage is only between a man and
a woman. Yeah. Abortion is wrong, children need fathers, children need their biological parents,
marriage is significant for society in a positive way. Those kind of issues that we're made male
and female we're not assigned gender at birth, these kind of issues, let's not talk about those
so much. Is that something that you recognise? And if I can ask you this, do you plan to keep
speaking out on these sorts of things when you go into full-time ministry? Oh 100 percent. I
challenge my own support-base on this all the time because people say, well the Church of England
shouldn't be political anyway and, you know, the church needs to stay out of politics. And
it's like, well, no, this is a political faith, you know, this is a good example, Living
Christianity. If we're truly living it we are being political, we're called to evangelise,
we're called to disciple the nations and you can't do that by sitting on the sidelines. And
we see such evils in our modern society that we have to address them, we have to challenge them.
And actually I'd love to see more politicians stand up for life, stand up for marriage,
sanctity of marriage, stand up for the family, for all these very important issues and
not just politicians but I'd like to see the Church stand up for these issues that
we're supposed to be affirming. And I'm sick and tired of hearing bishops talk
about Brexit, hearing bishops talk about Rwanda or being against the latest Conservative
government policy but not standing up for the core issues that affect, whether it's abortion
or assisted suicide or homosexual marriage. Well let's talk about two of the issues that The
Christian Institute is heavily involved with at the moment. That's the Online Safety Bill and
also the broad Conversion Therapy Ban. If people are unaware of the significance of the Online
Safety Bill, in a nutshell we're talking about a piece of legislation which is going to put
into law the idea of 'legal but harmful' content and that definition is going to be at
the behest of the culture secretary, it's not going to be in the bill, it's going
to be done with limited parliamentary scrutiny and through regulation, that the big social
media providers can be fined massively if they are putting out content
which falls foul of these- of this concept of 'legal but
harmful'. And we've been saying that there's no free speech protections worth the
name in the Bill. So the area of free speech is a major problem and particularly the fact
of- I mean, we know that big social media firms can often, at least be perceived to have a
particular line on some of the issues that we would speak on, and to threaten them with
these massive fines is likely to lead to, let's call it over censorship, so we
don't want to get these big fines, so we err on the side of caution, so we suppress
some of the content which, as is defined, is legal but someone is saying it's harmful. I
don't know how familiar you are with this Bill, so I realise I'm putting you on the spot a little
bit. But, you know, is this is this something that you're aware of? That you're concerned about and
what are the concerns that you would see from it? I'm massively concerned about this. Nadine Dorries
follows me so I've pinged her about this issue. It's censorship, that's all it is, directly
censorship, this idea that something is legal but considered harmful, such a subjective term,
who defines what's harmful? I like the approach that Poland have taken with social media and
they said you cannot ban or remove someone from these platforms, because these, you know, Twitter,
Facebook, they're not just private companies now, they are- they hold the keys to the information
superhighway, they are the public square, they are the marketplace of ideas. So Poland have said
well actually you can't remove someone from these platforms unless they are breaking the law and I
think that's a much better approach and they'll actually fine you for censorship if you remove
someone for saying something. Have you ever been removed from Twitter, have you ever been subjected
to that sort of ban? I actually haven't been banned from Twitter yet, surprisingly. You know,
whenever I go on a show or a podcast people always say do you want to promote your Twitter and I
never ever do because I think I don't want to be reliant on it, because it could be gone like
that and I suspect it will be at some point. I've been removed from- I've been banned from
TikTok a lot. Do you TikTok yourself? I do, I put my clips up on there, only for the fact
that it's full of debauchery, degeneracy, horrible cultural subversion and I think it's important
to expose young people to different views, so I put up conversations about race or gender or,
you know, trans issues and all this stuff. I take my clips from GB News and I put them on there so
I don't really have much engagement but I think it's vital to get exposure. But I've been banned
for so many things just for saying, you know, a man is an adult human male, that is enough to
get you banned on TikTok, that's how far they've gone, scientific facts are considered harmful
and this will be the case, you know, we've seen crazy laws being proposed in Scotland along
similar lines. I do think at some point prayer will become illegal and, or censored under
these kind of bills and we have to fight it with everything we've got. Well let's come onto
exactly that example because that's, I mean, that's the next piece of legislation I wanted
to talk to you about. I should just say that, of course, if anyone's unclear about some
of the specifics on the Online Safety Bill we've got a leaflet on it, it'll be, it's
available on our website to download, as is the next issue which is the broad conversion
therapy ban. Now you have joined The Christian Institute led campaign, the Let Us
Pray campaign. letuspray.uk. Can you just explain why you've joined the campaign? Absolutely,
again, it's such an important one because corrective rape, electrocution, these things
are already legal. Illegal. Yeah, because we think they are abhorrent and they're wrong.
So they're against the law already. So this, first of all, this idea of conversion therapy
doesn't make much sense unless you look at the wider picture and what they're including in there
is therapy and prayer and they say well, you know, we don't want people to be coerced into
changing their life but what this actually does in practice is it prevents people reaching out
for support. If you're looking to go to church and ask for people to pray for you because of
your lifestyle or situations people will be reticent about doing so because, again, it could
be in breach of this law. So what we're doing is, we're shutting down people's support structures
and we're actually harming, quite objectively, people through this legislation. Yeah, I mean
the ordinary work of churches, so the preaching, prayer, pastoral care, the stuff that
churches have been doing for generations comes into the scope of this Bill. Parents at home
who are telling their kids ' no, puberty blockers are bad, they're experimental treatments,
this is not a route for you to go down', they come under the scope. I mean, I'm sure you'll
be familiar with this, the state of Victoria in Australia has put a ban in place which is being
held up as this some sort of gold standard on this issue which is criminalizing parents who
would steer people, who wouldn't affirm a, sort of, trans route. And that is being held up
by these campaigners as something that this is the route that we should go down. What it is, it's
taking away parents responsibilities and rights which go hand-in-hand and it's replacing them
with the State, it's taking the child out of parents arms and putting them in the arms of
the State, that's what it's doing in saying that parents cannot pass their values on to children
because those values might be inappropriate for the given age of 2022, the State knows best
what values should be given to children. And that's what we're seeing in schools, in education,
that's what we're seeing in this legislation. It is fundamentally breaking down the family units
and this is the result of long-term infrastructure being taken over by neo-Marxists. I mean,
you've got a broad network, you're in the media, you're in the spotlight and you've got a lot of
Twitter followers. On perhaps either or both of those bills what is your sense of just awareness
generally of what the conversion therapy ban, the Online Safety Bill could mean? Do you think people
are aware of it or do you think it's- No. People don't get it. But it's because we've lost all
nuance, nothing is nuanced anymore, everything is just hyperbole and, you know, they paint
these things in a virtue signalling wrapper so of course, of course everyone wants to be against
forced conversion therapy, of course people want to be against the idea of forcing homosexual
people to become straight or transgender people to get in line with their actual gender, of course
that sounds like a good thing that everyone should back. But when you break it down and look at
what the legislation is actually promoting, it's not that. But what's been- what I’ve found
disappointing is that the vast majority of the church, the establishment, has been in support of
this, you know, I signed one of these petitions against conversion therapy bill, thinking, of
course, you know, this is something the Church should take a stand on. It’s obvious yeah. And
we were demonised quite publicly by, you know, high profile members of the clergy and people
saying 'these people are monsters' and I'm like, have you not read it or do you not care or are
you no longer on our side? I don't know what's going on here, it's been a massive surprise
to me. Yeah, I interviewed a couple of the co-authors of at least one of the letters which
went to government on the conversion ban issue and having gone public they were sharing just some
of the vitriol. Yeah. That they'd received. Well, I want to- we started off talking a bit about
education. I want to come back round to that, so education is a big area for us, massive
area of work, we'll be getting sort of 200 plus people contacting us, parents, governors,
head teachers, teachers contacting us over the course of a year. And lots of that is on LGBT
issues, I mean it's Pride month at the moment, certainly last year there was a significant amount
of contact for that. Not just those issues though, people interested in about how to use what's in
the law to promote marriage, man-woman marriage, parents concerned about what's been taught in sex
ed, in whatever form that might take, whether it's relationships education, out and out sex
education, relationships and sexuality education, depending upon which jurisdiction you're in.
And we're able to help them and how the law and what's in guidance can help them because it's
not always as bad as it might seem. Now you said you were a teacher, and you were a senior teacher
for a while and came out of that given various concerns. Time has moved on. How concerned
are you now, in terms of with the passage of time and looking back, about schools
and what is being taught, not just in RSE, but just more generally in the curriculum? What's
your concerns for the school children of today? Massive concerns and I'll get to it but I just
want to address the language that's being used by the woke or the left or whatever you want to call
them because we've talked about conversion therapy and it's no coincidence that they're using the
word conversion because you know it's our job to lead people to Christ so that he can convert their
hearts. Amen, yeah. And you've talked about pride and it's no coincidence that they're celebrating
a month of sin and, you know, just saying that is controversial but, you know, what they're
doing is subverting our culture by weaponising the language and it's the same in schools, you
know, I often talk about the idea that racism when I was growing up was discrimination or
prejudice against someone based on the colour of their skin and now racism is a power dynamic
between white people and BAMEs or non-white people. They're winning the battle because they
are setting the conditions for the war, they are winning by default because they're writing the
terms and we're playing them at their own game. I think we need to take back control of our language
first and foremost and we need to teach kids, well first of all we need to give them hard copies of
the Bible, not just the Bible but the dictionary. The way that the language can be rewritten under
our noses is terrifying to me because if we don't know what the words mean how can we argue on
them? We don't have any common ground. Well, we're going to take some questions, I haven't seen
them and you haven't seen them but we'll see what people have to say. Let's start with the nice
easy one. Are you gonna continue as a presenter on GB News? Presumably that's in relation to you
taking up your post as curate? Yes I will, I've, you know, I've been in full-time education for the
last two years and managed to balance that and the media so now I'm out of education I'm going to
replace my full-time role as my parish ministry and I'm going to dial down my media a bit so I'll
have one show a week, when that launches, but people, in line with that question, people keep
asking, you know, 'will you be streaming the services and will that be going either on GB News
or on Youtube or something?' I don't think I will be, at least for the time being, because I really
want my church to be centred or rooted in a place and a community and I want it to grow around
that community. Excellent. How do you see the future of the Church of England and I'm going
to assume that means the not the Free Church of England, it's the mainstream Church of England?
It is and has been in managed decline for years, for decades actually, since the start of
the 20th century at least and, you know, wokeness wasn't a thing back then but political
correctness has grown and grown into wokeness and it's been moving away from the faith for a
long time, heading towards apostasy. I do think that people within the hierarchy see that
and I honestly do think that they want the Church of England to be this perfectly embalmed
liberal corpse, they do want to leave behind a nice pretty picture which is why they're jumping
on board with all of these woke bandwagons and why they are, you know, the vast majority of bishops
that get promotions now are ones with experience of closing down churches including the Archbishop
of York because it's managed decline and they're no longer, well they don't have hope in the faith
and it's a great shame. So I don't know if it will last another decade, especially when we enter a
new sovereignty, a new monarchy. I don't know if it's coming over on screen but your body language
as well as your tone just says you're very, very sad about all this. Yeah absolutely, you
know, one of the conversations I had with the Bishop of London, she was like 'why are you
always criticizing the Church?' I was like, well because I love the Church, the Church is Christ's
body on earth and we're supposed to want it to do good works and if it's not then we have to speak
up about it and I can't sit by and watch this, what looks like nonsense being peddled left,
right and centre, like, where is the faith? It comes from a place of love. That,
I mean, that's one of the things which I suppose, we skirted around a bit in our previous
conversation, I suppose is this fear of owning the truths of scripture? Yeah. I mean that's something that you would recognise
I suppose? Absolutely, I think, you know, the congregations and the clergy are faithful,
loyal, good people. The hierarchy of the bishops tend to be embarrassed to be Christians, they tend
to be embarrassed of the faith, of our tradition, of our doctrines and they don't want to publicly
affirm them because it might offend someone that doesn't subscribe to them. I think that's, again,
that's stupid, it's back to front, we should be out there spreading the Good News, it's quite
literally what we're called to do and I don't know how they can stay in office if they're ashamed of
what they're supposed to be standing for. Okay, Christians have a range of views on politics, how
can we debate and disagree amongst ourselves over politics without falling out with each other? We
just have to remind ourselves to disagree well and it's the commonality that's important. So when I'm
talking in the secular square, I'm talking about the things that bring us together, you
know, being our Britishness but if we're debating politics amongst Christians, we've
got a very easy common ground in our faith and we've got to remind ourselves of,
you know, our identity is in Christ first and foremost. The rest of the
stuff is unimportant but of course we can discuss it and we should do so and reach
an amicable agreement, or disagreement. Calvin Robinson, thank you very much for the
time that you spent with us today. Thank you.
