Iliad, Book 9, Key Terms and Ideas (Part 2 of 4)

what's up everybody welcome back in this video we're going to pick up where we left off from the last one in which we introduced some of the backstory to the Iliad book 9 if you haven't watched that video I strongly urge you to go back and do that unless you're extremely familiar with the Iliad otherwise we're going to pick up right away with some of the lesson what we're gonna be focusing on today and book 9 of the Iliad or the strategy strategies of persuasion how do people get convinced to do certain things to behave in certain ways and how does this what's call it manipulation let's call it convincing how does it really work what are the successful techniques that are employed and will come and learn and take back to our own lives from some of these techniques remember the reading strategy please try to step out of your 21st century notions of good and bad right and wrong need this don't need that mentality try to get into the ancient Greek perspective and to help you to do that I'm going to introduce a few key times which I want you to keep in mind as we're doing our reading so first and foremost we've got these markers of importance here these are numbers one two and three the Greeks didn't have at this time a system of recording to tell someone's tale all you had was what people said about you okay so we have something similar in the modern day where if you see someone with a really ballin car or some flashy jewelry or beautiful wife or husband you're going to say oh man that person must be successful the Greeks personified this to a tee you are what people say you are and people say you are things based on what you have and what stories can be told about you so let's take that first one what you got what you got is called Garros this is a prize that's given by one's peers and I go back to the story that we were telling before the Golden Apple that's rolled in the middle of the wedding that the three women are fighting over the three goddesses are fighting over that's Garros it's a prize with that prize comes honor this is Timmy in ancient Greek and it's our second word Garros is a prize Tim a is honor from prizes we think of this as kind of like a persona like doctor or Esquire or professor these are like honorific titles and the interesting thing about these kinds of honors is that it seems to work in an almost unfair fashion and I'll explain what I mean here in a second so let's say you and your marauding horde of warriors has captured a town okay you're the leader you capture this town everybody piles all the gold and jewels and and victorious spoils and a big pie and you start to divide them up based on well based on what based on honor so whoever's got the most honour to begin with gets the best prize and so their honor keeps going up faster than the other peoples this is fascinating it's an economic principle and it's also something that comes through in the Bible this is in Matthew 25 29 and it's called the Matthew principle principle so you can find this in the New Testament it's in the Gospel of Matthew and it goes so take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten back for whoever has will be given more and they will have an abundance whoever does not have even when they have even what they have will be taken from them so if you don't have anything you get nothing if you have a lot you get more so think about that in terms of what that means it's definitely not an affair but it creates something that's somewhat similar to what we have in the modern day as well think about who produces the most software word well it's a couple of software companies and they get all the money yeah sure there are other software companies that start up but unless there's some kind of miracle that happens there they can't really compete with these these major ones and the same thing kind of happens in this ancient Greek time and society as well so the higher your honor is the more honor you gain an honor remember is based on what people say about you and those prizes so let's go on with this this what people say about you okay your story this is called Cleo's or glory the glorious story okay this is your second life almost it's the personification that people give you as they talk about you so we get kind of like two lives that you get first one you'll live and die and then the lab the second one is all the stories that people tell about you after you're gone and this is the thing that kill these really fears losing remember he's quick the battle because he's like well what is my story going to be I got robbed by this sack of wine Agamemnon to hell with him then I'm not gonna fight his war so this gets into our next three vocabulary words what happens when people invert systems and slight you okay they take some Gera sort MA or Cleo's from you well they can do it in three ways now this is our man Aristotle a great classifier a great man of the means Aristotle he classified three ways that people can generate anger in ancient Greece through inverting the system of honor first one contempt and that so treat someone like dirt you just don't respect them you don't care what the feelings are gonna be you don't care what their honor is so a good example of this review in Paris and Helen kind of run away and they don't care about how this is going to affect Mel house it's like the most beautiful woman in the world and the wife of a powerful King and she just absconds she just runs away with this lover boy don't really care about how men allow us is gonna feel contempt second one spite this is theft without any kind of personal gain so remember Agamemnon stole achilles slay a girl has been made this wasn't really to gain anything Agamemnon has plenty of these people to you know so his tunics and mend his tent or whatever so to take this girl isn't to benefit him in any real way it's to spite Achilles and the last is insolence and this may be the worst of all the insolence is public shame its though it's the one thing that people can't stand it's the one thing that people at this time turn their heads up to the gods and pray for some revenge get this person back he stole my daughter this is crises now complaining about Agamemnon publicly dismissing him in front of all the Greeks who laughed at him okay this is insolence publicly shaming victims just for pleasure so Agamemnon he's full of slights this one and this is one of the reasons why killing is the great warrior hates me so much so what do you do if someone does it's like someone puts a slide on well there's a couple things that you can do first thing you can do is ransom zag all right you stole my daughter I'm not a great ward I can't go in there and straights a hack-and-slash and do mr. hero to the rescue and bring her back out can't do it to old priest okay what do I do well I try to offer a bargain you stole something from me so I give you something in return to get that thing back I'll give you all these bars of gold I'll give you everything that you may want just give me my daughter back okay this reinforces the status quo so Agamemnon steals from crises he goes up here rather than attacking him crisis gives him a bunch of stuff he gives her back his his daughter and the status quo stays what it is it doesn't change the flips up the last book everywhere down here you might not want to rinse you might remember revenge this is point a so I wanna that's a that's a ransom plena that's revenge okay you stole something from me I'm getting it back um I'm taking some heads with me too and so what that does is it inverts the status quo it's like okay you stole something from me you're up here now just wait I'm coming in with my sword and I'm getting my stuff back brah so that's what Achilles he tries to do at the end it's like I'm a warrior I fight I win you took something from me stole my honor what am I gonna do boom keep that back unfortunately the gods step in so Kelly's is lost for something to do so the Society for Achilles breaks down and where we pick it back up is this reading the Greeks are getting slaughter and we decide to call me meanwhile Marshall Agamemnon led his commanders a file of senior Chiefs toward his own Lodge and set before them a feast please their hearts they reached out for the good things that lay a hand but when they had put aside desire for food and drink the old man began to weave his Council among them this is nest or the great counselor Nestor was first to speak from the early days his plans and tactics always seemed the best with goodwill to the Chiefs he rose and spoke Greek to Marshall at three days this is Agamemnon another name for Agamemnon a great Marshall of three days Lord of men Agamemnon with you I will end my king with you I will begin since you hold sway over many warriors vast armies and Zeus is placed in your hands the royal sceptre and time-honored laws so you will advise them well so you above all must speak your mind and listen and carry out the next next man's Council to whenever his spirit leads him on to speak for the public good credit will go to you for whatever he proposes now I will tell you what seems best to me no one will offer a better plan than this so think about what Nestor is doing here how would you describe Nestor strategy to start to persuade Agamemnon to listen here go back and take a look at that if you weren't entirely sure how does nesters start to leave this persuasive technique what's he doing here the plan I still retain says at the top of page 255 and now I've been forming well for a good long while now from the very day that you my lust King infuriated Achilles you went and took from him the girl was saying and not with any applause from us far from I for one I urged you against it strenuously but you you gave way to your overbearing anger disgraced a great man that gods themselves esteem you seized his gifts of honor and you keep her still but even so late as it is let us can try to set this to rights to bring him round with gifts of friendship and warm winning words and Agamemnon the Lord of men can sent it quickly that's no lie old man but full account you give of all my acts of madness mad blind that was not even I would deny well look that man is worth an entire army the fighters yours holds dear with his heart how he exalts him now and Moll Zakia's forces a kiyose forces are the Greek forces and they are just getting mauled they're getting destroyed but since I was blinded lost in mine inhuman rage now at last I am bent on setting things to right I'll give up prance priceless ransom paid for friendship so think here first does Agamemnon agree and follow in Esther's advice why only a second thing I want you to think about and try try really try to do this is remember this is epic poetry so I'm reading this off remember this is all spoken without any kind of right so try to remember everything that happened offers me try to remember because it'll come back later here before you all on name and full the splendid gifts I offered seven tripods never touched by fire ten bars of gold 20 burnished cauldron a dozen massive styles racers who earn me trophies with their speed he is no poor man moment with a tough one not strapped for goods with all that lovely gold where trophies those highs from horses carried off for me seven when women I'll give him flawless killed and cracked women of Lesbos the ones I've chosen my privilege that day he captured the less boasted about himself they outclassed the tribes of women in their beauty bees I will give and along with them I will go the one I took away at first Perseus daughter I will swear a song binding oath in the bargain I never mounted her bed never once made love with her the natural thing for mankind men and women joined now all these gifts will be handed him at once but if later the gods allow us to plunder the great city of crime let him enter in and we share the spoils load the holds of his ship with gold and bronze as much as his heart desires now choose for his pleasure twenty Trojan women same moment of our guide Helen in their glory and then if we can journey home to a key in Argos pride of the breasting earth he'll be my son by marriage I will even honor him on par with my or rust-eze his son's name as a Rusty's folk Rome by now reared in the lap of luxury three daughters are mine in my hall well-built Chris demos Lauda C and Ethan and he may lead away whichever one he likes with no bride-price ass home to police's house and i will add a dowry yes a magnificent treasure the likes of which no man has ever offered with his daughters seven symbols I will give him filled with people carnal Ababa n and then M and the grassy slopes of Howard where my fame and the sacrosanct the Tia deep in Meadows sure were rolling up high and pedasus green with vineyards all face the sea at the far edge of sandy Pylos and the man who lives within them rich in the sheep flocks rich in shambling cattle with honor will honor him like a god with hordes of gifts and beneath his sceptred sway love out his laws in sleek and shining peace consider is this aqua name or puente why does agamemnon respond to achilles in this way all this I would extend to him just above one lane nine one ninety all this I would extend him if he will end his anger let him submit to me only the god of death is so relentless death submits to no one so mortals hate him most of all the gods let him bow down to me I am the greater King I am the elder born I claim the greater man think about how this may foreshadow response from Achilles how does this foreshadow a response Nestor the noble charioteer embraced his offer general generous martial art Redux Lord of men Agamemnon no one could under eight these of yours now the treasure trove you offer Prince a helix come we'll send a detail of picked men they'll go to Achilles tent with all good speed quick whenever my I will light on in review this missions there an old Phoenix first so the first guy who's gonna go to Achilles this guy Phoenix number one zoom slopes the man so let him lead the way then giant Ajax so Ajax number two and tactful Odysseus number three heralds odious not a great name for our guys and your ebay teased you escort them water for their hands of reverence silence now prayer geezers perhaps he'll show us mercy the brisk commands he issue pleased them all heralds brought the water at once and rinsed their hands and the young men rimmed the mixing bowls with wine and tipping first drops for the God and every cup so you got to imagine sacrifices at this time often involve wine or meats so they'll dump out some wine or they'll throw some burning meats in a fire and that's merely as a as an idea that you're giving them something valuable to get something even more valuable in the future and this is a very important idea offering sacrifice we do the same thing it's one of the reasons why I would try to save money for the future we're making a sacrifice for now in order to get something close you should they did it this way sacrifice a little bit of wine sacrifice some good cuts of meat something in return later on okay they put the first drops for the God in every cup they poured full rounds everybody's having someone libations finished everybody's had their drink each envoy having drunk to his heart's content the party moved out from a tree based shelter remember Agamemnon shelter a tree dayses Agamemnon Nestor the old driver gave them marching orders a sharp glance of each Odysseus much the wall tree art now bring them round invincible Achilles yeah yeah remember do your job all I did was gonna set you up but now you gotta go to work you gotta get this guy so now imagine three guys marching off to try to convince an invincible godlike warrior to come back to the battle in a way this is like a small battle in and of itself it's a battle of words you've got to break down Achilles defenses and get him to do what you want him to do now the question is how do you do that against an invincible man not an easy question to answer first thing you may consider is what does Achilles want so Ajax and Odysseus made their way at once just a book line to Toronto where the battle lines of breakers crash and drag praying hard to the God who moves and shakes the earth that they might bring the proud heart of Achilles round with speed and ease reaching the mere Madonn shelters or Kamerman Dawn's are the group of people that Achilles represents he is the Prince of the Myrmidons there are people a great warrior means ants they like antsy charge over things lack reach the mere baton shelters and their ships they found him there delighting his heart now strong and clear on the fine liar beautifully carved its Silver Bridge sat firm he brought he won from the spoils when he raised at Tian's City Achilles was lifting his spirits with it now singing the famous deeds of biting nursery's overhearing he's playing this harp and singing about great heroes

Channel: Classic Lit Classroom

Views: 48

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: Iliad, Homer, Book 9

Id: V0Gs1ObkD3Y

Length: 23min 47sec (1427 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 13 2018