ICYMI Author Panel

BETH: Hello everyone and welcome. Thank you all so much for such a wonderful first day. I'm so excited to be back for day two of the first ever DVcon, a virtual conference for marginalized authors and illustrators. You can check out our policies and our whole program on our  website dvpit.com/dvcon. If you missed anything yesterday you can still watch everything right  here on our YouTube channel where you'll see our content from yesterday including recordings of  the live panels and all the micro-videos we've been dropping and will continue to drop today.  I'll include a link to the playlist of all of our content from yesterday in the chat.  Please note that we have made an update to our anti-harassment policy to ask that all  attendees include trigger warnings while interacting with anyone else at this con.  If you still haven't gotten into Discord yet but you would like to, you can follow the steps at  dvpit.com/register to get an invite in. If you're having any accessibility issue or need to get  in touch with us for any reason whatsoever, you can let us know by email or through the Discord  server, and I'll include all that contact info in the live chat for you as well. Okay so I'm so  excited to start our second day with this panel. You are watching In Case You Missed It: An Author  Panel. As we all know, 2020 was a hell of a year. Between the COVID pandemic and the anti-Black  systemic racism that reached a boiling point this summer, many debut books were overlooked and among  the hardest hit were Black authors, so let's celebrate some of those debuts from this past  year, and thank you so much to our sponsor of this panel, Penguin Young Readers. All right, enjoy! J. ELLE: Hello, welcome welcome! It's so good to see everybody. Happy 2021.  I'm J. Elle, the author of Wings of Ebony, which is actually out now, so go grab a copy if you  haven't. And I'm going to be moderating this panel. I'm super excited! Okay, so to jump in,  why don't we introduce ourselves? Tell us a little bit about your book, like maybe a quick blurb,  and a little bit about you, and mention when the book came out. Why don't we start with Rena? RENA: Awesome, my name is Rena Barron. My book is Maya and the Rising Dark, which came out September  of last year, is middle grade contemporary fantasy. It is a story about a girl who finds out  that her father is the guardian between our world and the mysterious dark world and so  when he goes missing, she has to fight a horde of spooky creatures to save him. J. ELLE: Ooh [laughs], Jane, you want to go next? JANE: Sure, my name is Jane and I'm the author of  Ties that Tether, a contemporary romance that came out September of 2020. It's about  a Nigerian woman who falls in love with someone outside of her Nigerian heritage  and is caught between what her family expects from her and what she wants for herself. J. ELLE: So int--and so by the way, I need all these books by the way. I have  all--I have all of them. I need to get to through my TBR faster because I haven't read them all,  but I do have them all. Alechia, you want to go next? The Sound of Stars. ALECHIA: Hey! I do not have a copy of my book right by, but it's The Sound of Stars! I'm sure,  yeah yeah, I'm sure you have one somewhere [laughs]. I have yours too, I think yours  is closer than mine. Anyway I am Alechia Dow. I am the author of The Sound of Stars. It is a YA  sci-fi about a rebel librarian and a music-loving alien and their unlikely friendship on a road  trip to possibly save humanity and it's super fun and yeah, that's--that's me! [laughs] Hey!  J.ELLE: I love the balance too, like, of all the different genres and age categories,  it's so fascinating. Cat, you want to go next? And then Denise, you want to follow up after Cat? CATHERINE: I am Catherine Adel West, author of Saving Ruby King. The book is about two friends-- two Black friends, two girls--and the lengths that one of them will go to when a tragedy  upends their tight-knit church community. It has a lot of wonderful twists and turns  and I am so happy to be here and I am so--was so blessed to write the book, so, happy to be here. DENISE: And I'm Denise Williams, she/her pronouns, and How to Fail at Flirting is my debut,  which came out about two months ago, beginning of December, and it is a contemporary romance like  Jane's. The heroine is a type A math professor who wants to get her life back after she's  gone through some traumatic experiences and makes a to-do list, because that's what you  do when you're type A, and part of that to-do list is meeting a stranger at a bar who ends up being  a little bit more than a one-night stand. So, we're talking about trigger warnings or content  warnings, the heroine is a survivor of domestic violence and so that comes up in the book. J.ELLE: Thank you, well I know what I'm reading for the next several weeks,  so. Okay so we'll jump in with our first question. The question is: tell us about  your main character in your book and what made you want to tell this story, and we'll start with Cat. CATHERINE: So the main character actually there are about six because it's a multi-POV (Point of View) novel,  so [laughs]. My book came out in June 2020. What I did with the book--like I said, it's multi-POV--I  had like six different main characters but the one that-that's really really strong is Layla.  She is a pastor's daughter, like myself, you take from your life. And she is, you know,  just a vibrant part of her community and tries to help her friends in any way she can. I think the  reason I wanted to tell this story is because the south side of Chicago is--there's like a narrative  that's written for us about like the violence there and-and like almost kind of like there's  like no good people or no good things happening. And there are a lot of good things and a lot of  good people happening, so you know, if you don't see the story in the wild, you write the story,  so I wanted to write this story, I wanted to show a strong Black female character--intelligent,  college-educated, and somebody willing to go through heck and high water for her friends. J.ELLE: Sounds very, very good. Well, I know it is because that's actually one of the ones I've read  [laughs]. Thank you so much, so many POVs too, was that--sort of--this is sort of a  tangent but was that always the plan from beginning to write so many POVs? CATHERINE: Uh-uh, mm-mm, so what happened was this  is the first book I ever wrote and I didn't know how to write a book. So I thought that I was like the originator of the multi-POV, I'm like I know what I'm going to do.  I'm going to create a multi-POV for all these other characters  and Twelve Tribes of Hattie came out that same year, um, so what..what..  [chucking] Well, after I picked myself up I really just  went for it, with like you know, the different POVs, the different angles, and I was able to even  infuse a Church with a viewpoint and it was just a lot of fun. It wasn't intentional, I just decided,  for my first book, to write a multi-POV, non-linear narrative because I was so smart. J.ELLE: I love it, I agree you are, so smart. Okay, so the same question, Rena, we'll toss it to you.  RENA: You know, going after Catie after that was--I'm like, okay, look,  I cannot even follow up with that, like first book multiple POV, non-linear? This is like what  it means to be a writer, I'm just saying. So we are both from Chicago and so I can actually relate  a lot to what Catherine said just around the fact that, for Maya, I wanted to write a story  about a little girl living on the south side of Chicago that didn't follow the stereotypes of what  I saw on TV all the time, and so Maya's original kind of story kind of came from this ideal of the  neighborhood that I was living at at the time. And I remember seeing during the summer all of these  like broadcasts on tv on news about all the awful things that were going on in my neighborhood,  and I don't deny that there were some bad things happening, but it didn't capture like all of the  community and the neighbors and the friendships and people who were looking out for each other.  And I wanted to tell that story, so that's where Maya kind of stemmed from, that's where she popped  up from. Like well, Maya's this, you know, girl who loves comic books and I love comic books,  so of course she's partly inspired by me. But you know, she's a math tutor and she's just a regular  girl and I wanted to show that side of things that we don't often see when we think about the south  side of Chicago. Because you know, the news and the way media portrays it is so stereotypical, so  I just wanted to write a story about a little girl growing up on the south side living her best life. J.ELLE: That is so brilliant, and I agree, I feel like my heart was exactly the same  when when dra--when crafting Wings of Ebony because I too grew up in this inner city area  in the south--on the southeast side of Houston that is very much characterized in that way and  I just think about how powerful books like that, like yours, like mine--characters like that,  not only do those kids in those communities get to be seen but like, it shows the world  that um they're-they're sort of buying into a stereotype when they--when they decide to like  drive past our exits on the freeway and not get off. Like okay, then you're missing the best fried  chicken in the neighborhood because I know what it's like on my block and it's community, love,  and family and so I love that. I love that about Maya so much. Those books are so, so important.  Um thank you, Rena. Jane, you want to go next? JANE: Sure um well my main character Azere is a   Nigerian like myself, um she--I wanted to tell her story because her story was basically my story.  We're very similar, we love um, our family. Um, we love writing, we love the advertising industry,  which is her career choice, and we love romantic movies which is shown all throughout the book.  And so I wanted to tell a story about a girl who immigrated to Canada when she was  a child and was caught between who she wanted to be versus who her family expected her to be  and just torn between two cultures, because I also immigrated to Canada when I was 11 and I  had a struggle with that silently, um, without my family really knowing and be two different persons  with my family and at school with my friends and growing up, when I wanted a date, I had to  you know, think about what my parents--who my parents wanted me to date, and um who I wanted  to date, which was just anyone I had a connection with. And so that was something Azere struggled  with and that's basically how she grows throughout the book, to learn to you know, do what she feels  is best for her and accept two different cultures while staying true to her Nigerian heritage.  Three different cultures, actually, because she falls in love with someone who is not Nigerian,  so yeah. This inspiration came from my life. J.ELLE: That is so beautiful and just   such a relatable narrative too. I think even if readers aren't necessarily Nigerian they're  going to be able to resonate like that, the idea of sort of being true to yourself and  sort of that courage and bravery that it takes to lean into that, is such a relatable thing,  and it's just a human thing, that I think is going to just nestle its way into readers'  hearts. I love it. I love it. Denise, do you want to talk a little bit about your book? DENISE: Yeah so um my book also takes place in Chicago, so. Got a little Illinois love here in  the chat. But when I started writing this--this is also my first book that I'd ever written  and I never thought it would be published. I never thought it would get past a short story  and so I also learned a lot about writing, a lot about writing on the way to doing that.  But something I knew from the beginning is that my heroine would be a professor.  As a woman of color, a professor, and a professor in a STEM area, there's just a lot of vitriol  there, like you talked about there's a lot of stereotypes and often folks in that space don't  see themself, and so I knew that that's where the character would be, and also at that time in...  a lot of times, there's just a lot of vitriol too around who professors are and what universities  do. I work at a university, I have a PhD um and so I really wanted to show this very human character  who was in that role, to I think just bring some awareness to what what that  is like for folks who are in those spaces and to challenge some of that dominant narrative  about who professors are and what they do. J.ELLE: That's fantastic and I mean romance to  me is like, it's like the blanket that I crave that I just want to curl up in, it's just warm  and fuzzy and it's just all the feels, so I love that. Love that, love that. And the STEM angle I think is so huge um and just very relatable--selfishly, very relatable [laughter].  Alechia, you want, you want to go next? ALECHIA: Hi, everyone. First I wanted to  say that I have all of your books and, you guys, you all are amazing. You're--I'm such a huge fan  of all of you, so that's first. Um, my book The Sound of Stars came out on February 25th   and it has two main characters, one a fat Black queer girl--hey--so we share that,  and um then you have an alien boy which, you would think that is not really kind of like me, but  I am a Black woman in Germany so the reason I wrote an alien was because that's how I feel  living in Germany and um although I share so many identities with my character Ellie,  I really, really kind of relate more to M0Rr1S ["Morris"], and just wearing your heart on your  sleeve and just being completely unsure of yourself in this new place. So I thought it  would be great to tell this story because, hey, fat girl gets her love interest and-and  an adventure and that doesn't happen, and it doesn't have to be completely traumatic,  and it doesn't have to be um, you know--it doesn't have to have like this lead up of, everything is  racist and this is terrible and here's why. Like, she can be living on the um--on the upper east  side in New York, which I worked as a culinary instructor there for a time, so I kind of used my  experience as a librarian living in New York and now living in Germany to kind of write these two   characters and just kind of explore what would happen in a YA setting and an alien invasion, so.  I really had a lot of fun with it and I got to write about all my favorite books in there too  and kind of just like name drop everybody if I could, and [laughs] it was really  my love letter to um stories and songs. J.ELLE: I love that too, I remember opening your   book and realizing that Ellie was a librarian. I was like [gasps] book lovers unite! Like, all book  lovers instantly, right, we love librarians. Thank you so much, Alechia. Okay let's go on to the next   question: What was your favorite scene to write and was it inspired by anything from pop culture  or real life? And we can start with Rena. RENA: Oh, favorite scenes are always hard because I feel like there's always like a couple ones that kind  of stand out, but I think for Maya and the Rising Dark, probably the favorite theme to write was the  Comic-Con scene. As I mentioned kind of earlier, Maya's really into comic books and she's like  basically half the time living in her own little world and thinks she's a superhero even before she  really is one and then there's the scene where she gets to go to Comic-Con for the first time.  It's a big build-up because her dad promised her that she'd go to Comic-Con, it was important,  she finds out--without giving a spoiler, there is something really reason why Comic-Con  is really important--but when she goes there, she's attacked by like these stormtroopers  who aren't really stormtroopers, they're dark bringers from the other world that her father  protects from. And she--all these little weird things happen, like there's like this whole like  popcorn getting turned into worms, and someone's hair getting turned into something different,  so it's a really wild scene where it's just the kids--it's her and her two best friends--they're  just really having all this fun while all this chaos is happening at once and thinking,  'Well this is actually kind of fun' in the middle of Comic-Con where everyone's like in cosplay and  dressed up, so. It was probably one of the funnest scenes for me to write because it was just so--it  was so erratic but like fun at the same time. J.ELLE: I love that,  I love that. Jane, you want to go next? JANE: Sure, favorite scene was the most dramatic  scene of the book was when Azere, the main character, stood up to her mom, because her mom  put her through like a lot throughout the book, and Azere didn't really have a voice. She never  really stood up to her mother and so that scene was so pivotal to her growth because she spoke her  truth and she was like 'I don't really care if you accept it or not' and it kind of was reflective of  my own--I don't want to say confrontation with my mom, but conversation with her about this topic,  you know, interracial relationships and stuff and accepting two different cultures.  So it was--it reflected my conversation with my mom so it was emotional and empowering also. And  very important to my character's growth and I think also to my growth as well,  and my mother's because when she read that book, she was a new person [laughs]. She completely  changed her perspective so it was very important. J.ELLE: I love that when the gift--the gift is   like, sort of what we do and we put it out there for readers but it does so much for us  too. [JANE: Yeah.] That's really powerful. Cat, you want to go next? CATHERINE: So [clears throat] for me one of my favorite scenes is a scene where Layla and Ruby  meet in a coffee shop. And it's a particularly dialogue-heavy scene and I used to hate writing  dialogue, but I found out I kind of had a knack for it, so I just wanted to take a scene where  the person, who like needs to be saved, and her friend are just having this  confrontation when it's just like, 'you always try to save me I don't ask for your help.' These  are the things that are kind of like wrong and kind of a little toxic about who we are and what  it is that we do and the cycles in which we go to, you know, like there's a line where I think  Ruby said like there's a difference between you know, fathers and monsters--because my book is  really heavy on like Black father-daughter themes because there wasn't a lot of books  about Black father-daughter relationships and I just wanted to create a scene where the two main  ladies like, kind of go head to head about the things they love about each other and the things they  don't like about each other and the things that like, need to be repaired both, you know,  outside of them and inside of them. And this was not necessarily like based on something that  happened in my life specifically, but just all the conversations that I should have had with friends  past that I never really got to have and those relationships, you know, eventually crumbled.  But what I did do was I based it literally on a coffee shop that's about it's--you know the  scene--happens in a coffee shop it's literally like three or four blocks away. So I had just  such a good time writing that scene and I always imagine if the book ever becomes like, a movie  or--or like a limited tv series, like they would start like--just start with that scene, like it's  just so, just like one of my favorites. I love it. J.ELLE: I love that, I love that so much. And I  think too how powerful, you know, it'll be for--for other people who can resonate with  that sort of experience where there's things they wish they would have said with friends,  they get to sort of like live that out on the page through your characters  and maybe it gives them the courage to--to speak their truth in a friendship or potentially save  a friendship, so that's beautiful. That's so beautiful, yes! And the movie, let it be  so [laughs]! [CAT: Cross the fingers.] J.ELLE: We want--we will all [CAT:...for all of us,   all of us, hello.] J.ELLE: .All of us come on, Netflix. Netflix in the chat? [laughing] J.ELLE: Okay, who's next? Denise, you want to do next? Denise,  have you gone? Sorry, I lost track. DENISE: Nope, I'm good. There were a ton of really  emotional, kind of emotion-heavy, rich scenes that I loved writing but  one of my favorites is not. They're at Navy Pier because the heroine has not informed the hero that  she actually lives in Chicago, so she's pretending to be a tourist. And so she's like 'Okay well this  feels pretty touristy' so they are at Navy Pier and, years ago, I went on the ferris wheel and it  was the first ferris wheel I'd ever been on--this was before they renovated it, it was kind of a--I  don't even want to think about it, like that seems a little old and janky but anyway,  I was on that and as we were at the top, I'm a little afraid of heights, but I thought  'I am someday gonna write'... actually I thought someday I was gonna have this beautiful kiss on  the ferris wheel--that didn't happen. But I was like 'Okay second best, I'm gonna write  this beautiful kiss on this ferris wheel' and so the hero and the heroine go on this ferris wheel  and he is afraid of heights but he does it anyway because he wants to be with her and she loves it.  And that was just such a fun scene to write because it was just this energy for the heroine of  like having this fun, fun-loving romantic moment, in kind of her to-do list, and he's terrified  but then of course they have this kiss and that distracts them both. And for me that's just like  such the--the heart of their relationship, that I always--I love rereading that scene,  I loved writing that scene, even though it's kind of a lighter, more fun one in the book,  and so I'm very excited--I had plans to go back to Chicago this summer, I was like 'I gotta get on  the ferris wheel again.' Of course, that didn't happen so, I'll be very excited for when I can  maybe go there before the next book launches. J.ELLE: That is so amazing and like I'm imagining  Denise all the proposals that are going to happen there from like a band to have read  your book and like their partner gets wind of it and they're like oh my gosh I have  to propose at the ferris wheel because this is how it was done in Denise's book  so I'm very excited for all you all you're doing for--[DENISE: I'm just waiting for my husband to realize he  should re-propose when we go there.] Yeah! [snaps] Send him the notes, send him the notes from this. [laughs]  Alechia I think you're up next. ALECHIA: Um, my favorite scene was in a grocery  store um they are drive--they stop by a grocery store like to find food um on this trip, their  road trip, and she's totally panicking because she--it's dark there's no food she's not happy  and he's trying to calm her down so he starts singing a song to her and they kind of like  start dancing a little bit together and it's like oh it's such a sweet moment and then  like a rat shows up and it's like totally over but I loved that moment because it reminded me of  um I don't know if anybody's ever seen like 28 Days Later where it's like this kind of  this terrible stuff is happening but you have these beautiful little quiet moments that  add so much to um these characters and it kind of gives them that reprieve they need um  so that was that moment for me where I just got to have like it's okay for a moment you're gonna have  a dance and you're gonna sing and it's gonna be nice you'll see and then it's over but it was like  that was that moment where they get to just be themselves and be teenagers and and have  a goofy moment so that was my favorite. J. ELLE: And like, what a powerful image right to our community   like the world has been on fire for how long? It feels like forever um and so I think that's just  I remember this scene and I am in love with M0Rr1S ["Morris"] ten out of ten would die for M0Rr1S ["Morris"] um  and I just feel like it's just so powerful like metaphorically very powerful to just to just  remember those like sweet moments and that like we get to dance in grocery stores like we we get  this even if the world is on fire so I love that. Okay, so the next question okay so having a book  published in 2020 was rough...what was it like publishing a book in 2020 and I'd love you to  put a spin on it at the end and tell us like what was maybe something you were pleasantly surprised  that came out of that experience um and we can start with you and start with  Rena we can just kind of go in the same order. RENA: Yeah I'll start. Well yeah I definitely  will say it was very tough um to publish in 2020. My book Maya and the Rising Dark was originally  supposed to come out in May and it just kept getting pushed because no one knew what was  going on, so a lot of it was like ramping up to promote, but then having to ramp down because  nothing was actually happening. My publisher was very supportive of the process and they were  really thinking about like 'When is the the best time to strategically release the book?' so they  were always, you know ,communicating so that helped a lot so I wasn't left in the dark so that was a  pleasant surprise as well. But I think what really came through for me is I had a lot of writing  friends and just fans who had read my YA who came together and helped kind of launch the book. They  did videos talking about Maya and and just reading it with their family and doing reviews and things  like that and so that was really nice because they did a bunch of posts around the launch which made  it very special um and very different considering kind of you know--I of course was like 'Oh my god,  is anyone ever going to read this book because does anyone know what's happening because of  the pandemic.' But it was just--it ended up being... it ended up being such a community  feel of people coming around and supporting and it really made it um a wonderful debut so I--it,  you know, as much as it was like fear there was just such-such love that was shown when  Maya came out and it really kind of offset the fact that we were in a pandemic. JESS: And how--man, how powerful was togetherness and love last year like,  like that was just so critical. That makes me so happy to hear! Jane, do you want to go next? JANE: Sure. Yes, it was very tough. The uncertainty was really  um hard because I wasn't sure how this new author and this new book was going  to be received and if it was going to get enough attention. Also I found that just the guilt of  'Should I promote my book and celebrate this huge success that I've worked hard for for years when  there's so much going on there's so much pain going on,' and I continuously struggled with  posting about my book and talking about it while knowing that a lot of people, including  myself, was dealing with so much. But I just had to deal with that and know that even when things  seem dark everyone needs like, uh some hope, right? They need something to look forward to  and to celebrate so I had to just think about it that way. And for me I felt that there was just,  like Rena said, a community and people connecting with you in a way that I didn't expect. I'm not  sure if like Instagram Live and authors talking to like--doing interviews via Instagram was a  thing before. I really can't remember much of that but that was happening a lot. Um,  Denise did something amazing with how my friends flirted and I can't remember the series she  hosted on Instagram, it was so much fun. I love doing that. I love connecting to people  via Instagram, doing live interviews, and I felt like people reached out to me so much,   readers reached out to me, so. Also I got to just really appreciate the fact that I could go to a   bookstore and see my book there because I wasn't sure if the bookstores were going to be opened   and they did open a few weeks before my book was released and I just really appreciated that   more than I would have otherwise. J.ELLE: Yeah I've been loving the Instagram. The Instagram Lives, I love that those are   like continuing. I hope we continue like, we keep those when the world is like normal again. Okay,   let's see who's next? Cat, I think you were next. CATHERINE: Yeah so uh I published in June of 2020   when it was like, really kind of... it was hectic and I was...   I don't know what it is about it, I guess maybe my ego is the size of Texas but I didn't have a worry   necessarily about like the book not selling because the publisher Park Row had put like   so much effort behind making sure that everybody knew about the book. I think for me what was rough   was my debut year wasn't how I pictured it in my head. You know, so like I pictured you know like   going to a bookstore and having all my family and friends and like a cake with like the cover on it.   Like I had like all of these ideas and dreams and--and the thing is trying to refocus what   a--what your dream is and what it looks like. It's a little bit of a mourning period,   right, but I mean we're Black women. What do we do? We put on our big girl pants,   just like 'All right, it didn't turn out this way, but it's gonna turn out this way. It's going to be   fabulous, we're going to do what we need to do.' And that's the--the--that's the way in-in which   I approached it. And I think another thing was uh what was pleasantly surprising for me   was we were all stuck but we found a way to communicate with each other like around the world   so you would think that 'Oh you don't really have, you know, anything to do.' Like, I had so many   book events because people that--I wouldn't have been able to travel to Texas or New Orleans or   Florida or California. Now these people can come to me and I can do panels like this wonderful   panel and book events and-and everything like that and my publisher had this really brilliant idea   to notify these bookstagrammers and I had a list of Black bookstagrammers that they didn't have.   And I said 'take this list.' And um and, they did and the love that Saving Ruby King got, the   outreach that I got, I mean the writing community, you all, I mean I met y'all, right? So like how   could 2020 get any better, you know what I mean? Like it was wonderful, so I think for me it was   about readjusting what your dream looks like and then rising to the occasion and working hard to   make that come true and--and I think it just, you know, it was rough but I mean, you know, literally   what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and that that's what I learned in the publishing realm.  J.ELLE: Now that's beautiful and that's what it looked like,   I mean it really did. It looked like people sort of adapting and pivoting and rallying   around each other and being--finding a way to stay connected with everything else going on.   So yeah, that was exciting. Exciting to watch. It was like a moment of dancing   in the grocery store when the world was on fire, so. Denise, do you want to go next? DENISE: Yeah I mean I think I'd--I'm trying to think of something original to say because I   would just say ditto for so many of these. "How my friends failed at flirting" was a lot of fun,   if you haven't watched it, Jane's flirting fails were fantastic. But yeah, the Instagram Live and   all of the digital--for me, I'm in Iowa, in the middle of the country and this may shock no one,   but there isn't like a huge amount of bookish events happening based in Des Moines. And so   for me, it's definitely extended the ability to participate in things and to engage in different   activities. I would say I was always a December debut and so when everything started while I was   supporting folks, while I was part of our 2020 debut--debuts of color group that met regularly,   I sort of had this moment of 'Okay well I'm in December...we should be back to normal by then,   the election will be over' and you know this idea that--and I kind of held out hope maybe a   little bit longer than some were able to because December seemed so far away, of course and none   of that happened. But I think you're exactly right Cathy, like it was so much adjusting expectations,   and you know what? I still went and got a cake and it was huge because I ordered the wrong size and   my kid was just full of sugar for a few days and that was fine. But it was really like adjusting   what it looks like and what it means and where you find joy and excitement. And I think, you know,   in the end that's okay because that's our--that's our debut. For me something that also hit hard is   me, reviewers, readers--so many people were having a hard time focusing. They had the   weight of on on books or reading. The weight was on everybody's shoulders and so if you have a book   with some heavy themes in it, hello, um that's gonna hit different and I think the same for us   when we were foolish enough to read reviews, I think for me those hard ones hit   harder than they might have otherwise just because there was so much going on. And so, you know,   it was finding that perspective of 'yes this is a bad review, yes I'm probably taking it harder than   I need to because of x y and z' and the--again that 2020 group of authors of color was so huge in   giving some of that perspective and laughing about it or crying about it or venting about it.   And so that was a really wonderful thing that came out of 2020 is we have this group that met twice a   month across genres, across the country, around the world, and are still meeting and there was   so much support in identifying like putting out a press release, identifying bookstagrammers and-and   writers and new bloggers, news outlets, all of that. And so that was sort of a really   wonderful thing and I think also--Jane and I are with the same publisher, with Berkeley,   but there was so much support there and I think they were very willing to pivot on   things and to try some new things. But I did always feel really supported by my publisher   and my editor and I think that that really helped too even in all of the uncertainty.   I see a few head nods but that was definitely my experience for 2020. Also like murder hornets so   it helps put a bad review in context. [laughing] J.ELLE: Yes, I saw the headline, I was like,   I can't, I cannot, I just have to--this--that headline does not exist in my reality. I can't.   I'm saturated. Alechia, you want to finish that one up for us?   ALECHIA: It was rough. [laughs] I agree with what everybody else said. I felt really supported   though and people were really, really kind to me and I'm all the way over here in Germany   so it was--it's been really nice that people invite me to things that I wouldn't be able to go   to normally and having that now makes me really, really happy. Even though I'm a bit chaotic online   so just [laughs] like, it's fine as long as people don't mind my chaos. And just the community,   we were all--we-we're all stuck right? But we're all stuck together and that's been really nice   to kind of have that support and people talking to you and people hyping your book and boosting you.   And I can't--I mean I can complain a lot about the pandemic and it's been bad for everybody   everywhere. I'm just happy that I'm still here and I'm still working and we all are and   I'm always--I'm just--I take it one day at a time. J.ELLE: Words of wisdom there and just--it's   2021 and I--my book just released this week and so I--in a lot of ways like,   you all paved the way, so to speak, for like us '21 debuters who are sort of like deer in headlights   in general because it's a debut year but then also because it's sort of like pandemic part--like 2.0,   you know, and so we've learned a lot by watching you all, so this is a collective thank you   from my entire debut group for like, you know, being--letting us learn from you. And you guys   have truly adapted and shown us so many amazing  things that we're all sort of like tucking in our   back pocket and trying out, so. Thank you. Next question: so what's one of the--oh, I   already asked that one, sorry. I piggybacked that one off the last one. So the next question is:   which character in your book was the easiest to write which was the most difficult?   And we'll start with Rena and then pop to Jane. RENA: So that--this is probably like a   stereotype but Maya was the easiest to write, because as the main character,   you know, there's a lot of her personality aspects that are just like my personality from when I was   12 years old. Like I mentioned that she's really into superheroes and comic books and   she's actually--she's also in math tutoring and she had been in math tutoring for years. I was   in math tutoring at that age as well. So that was not a far reach to write that kind of character   Though I will--I will kind of cheat and also say Maya has two best friends, one is named Frankie   and one's named Eli, and her best friends also kind of have a little aspect of my personality   as well. Frankie is a science nerd and I was always into like science and all that geeky stuff   that I still am into. And Eli's into supernatural, so he's into like ghost stories and the paranormal   which I also was into, which is what we--I'm--just to go back to what we initially started talking   about, it's like these are the aspects of these Black kids that I wanted to show that people don't   often get a chance to see. Like yeah, we are into some of the same fun and cuckoo stuff as well.   So I would still say Maya was the easiest to write because I felt like, you know, there was a lot of   aspects of my own childhood that I, you know, put into her character. Hardest character to write...   it would probably be the antagonist, the Lord of Shadows, which I think--I love writing   antagonists, I will say that, but I do think that their stories can be very complicated   and if you don't want them to be very flat or just kind of stereotyped, you really have to   think about what's the backstory for them, what's their motivation, why they're doing this, and--and   dare I say, you have to make them a smidge bit sympathetic. And so since he's horrible   and is trying to destroy the whole human world, it wasn't particularly easy to make him sympathetic,   so I had to kind of come up with this whole backstory that gave just a little bit more of   why he feels this way about the human world--I don't want to say what the backstory is but   giving a little bit of a backstory so people can understand his side of things. So it was a little   bit harder to write him because he's a bad guy, but I gotta make you kind of understand why he's a   bad guy, so that-that was an interesting balance. J.ELLE: Thank you, thank you. Totally agree, my antagonist is very challenging to write. It's like, I don't   like this dude, like [laughs] I don't want to be in his head [laughs]. Jane, you want to go next?  JANE: Sure. The easiest character to write was the main character,   Azere, because she was basically me [laughs]. I wrote her character not really knowing that I was   writing so much of myself into the book until I was revising and I was like oh that's me [laughs].   We both love romance, we both are immigrants living in Canada and there was just so many   things similar and her personality is very much like mine, so. Yeah, it wasn't difficult to get   into her head at all. The hardest character to write was Azere's mother. She was so mean   and she really put Azere through a lot and it's hard for the character to see   why she's doing the things she was doing. But they eventually do see   that she was acting that way because of fear and, like Rena said, I wanted to show--allow   the audience, the readers to have sympathy for her or at least understand why she was acting   the way she was--because she was afraid that her child might lose aspects of her culture in another   country and that's a major fear. That's the fear I realized was my mother's as well.   So she was a difficult character to write but it was um, she--she was also an interesting character   and I wish that I dived more into her past and her perspective a bit more because I think she's   complex in her own way. J.ELLE: I love that, I love that. And I love too that--that I love it's a love-hate   relationship with that--that struggle of like when you're crafting a book like how much of   their backstory and like how much of them do you put in the story? Because in the writer's head I   feel like we have like a whole 'nother second, third, fourth volume. [everyone laughing]   People really want to go in, we can go all the way in, and give them so much more, so.   Thank you for sharing, Jane. Cat, you want to go next then we'll do Denise and Alechia.  CATHERINE: So for me the easiest character to write um   was... and I mentioned this earlier but I personified a church called Calvary Hope   Christian Church. So for me that was the easiest character to write, is a non-human   character. I don't know what that says about me, I'll talk to a therapist about it but um   I think the reason it was so easy for me to write was because I got to use this really   timeless classical style that I love writing in. So, you know, you sprinkle a little, you know,   Charles Dickens, but then you got a little James Baldwin, with some Octavia Spencer,   and then you got a little Richard Wright, but then you got a little Oscar Wilde, like,   I got to combine all of those when I was writing Calvary Hope Christian Church. And not only that,   Calvary Hope Christian Church was the one that would drop them twists on you or give you that   reveal, like boom, you like 'Oh Jesus, really?' I mean, it's so satisfying to finally reveal to   your readers the motivations of each character, why each character is the way they--they are,   you know? You know, even the antagonist, the bad guy Lebanon, you know like Rena was saying,   like Jane was saying, like you have to have--like a character can't just be bad to be bad,   you know, you need to have motivations and reasons and sympathy and a lot of people will come back   to me and just be like 'You know what I hated him at first but what happened wa--', you know that's   what you need to, you know, that's what you need to reveal and I just wanted to find a different   way to kind of reveal those things without like a lot of you know, just telling and not show--you   know what I mean? So I just wanted to kind of uh, you know, get that out of the way, but Calvary   Hope Christian Church was so much fun to write. Like I could--I could write those chapters in   legit two hours and--and really I didn't have to--yeah--and   I didn't have to edit them. I didn't like--they were just like--they went through my literary   agent, they went through my editor. I really didn't have to edit any of those parts.   The hardest character for me to write was Ruby [laughs]. She was the hardest--I know   you would think like 'Oh well she's the--" mm-mm, because the thing is Ruby has like this kind of   melancholy streak and she doesn't act, you know, she'll just sit and she'll ponder and   I'm not a sit and ponder person, I'm an act person, you know, I'm like 'Oh no you didn't,   where's the shovel so I can hit you over the head' like oh crap I forgot this was being filmed   um...[everyone chuckling] but you know, Ruby you know she's--she's sitting pondering   and I'm very like active like Layla is, so Ruby was harder for me to kind of dig into and   get the motivations and everything clear but I'm so happy I stuck with it because Ruby ended   up being this really layered character and in the end I wanted to do what I could for her so,   you know, that was my easiest and my hardest. J.ELLE: Yeah, and you have such a beautiful   literary tone to your writing Cat, like literary is my--I just, I love it. I can't execute it, but   I love it [laughs] and so that just really comes through in your prose really beautifully. Denise?  DENISE: Yeah so there's a lot of my voice in the main character but uh--and so she was easier to   write. But it's actually writing the villain for me came very easily and there's very little, if   anything, sympathetic about him, he is essentially um patriarchy in the academy personified.   Which I've worked in higher education for a long time, I study higher education, I   teach, you know, and so for me, that character came very easily though not very comfortably,   as this just narcissist with all these other things going on but--and something I've talked   about with with readers who work in higher education is he feels very much a real character   but that--just because of I think of the way the spaces I've worked in and the work I've done came   to me very easily to write him. And he came to the page very easily. The hero was actually the   hardest character for me to write because all the early feedback was that he was too perfect which,   I'm in romance, like book boyfriend goals is a thing, like, we're pretty forgiving of that. But   I did have to kind of rough him up a little bit um and try to make him a little bit more balanced   but that was hard to do because I just wanted to put all of these wonderful things in him and have   him just be consistently and always sort of this wonderful counterbalance to the heroine of all the   things she's dealing with from her past, but um yeah it was a little hard to make him flawed...   a little bit, I mean he's still pretty perfect. J.ELLE: I'm okay with it, give me all the perfect   love interests. And Alechia, you do something similar, I feel like with   M0Rr1S ["Morris"] as the love interest, so there's some--some similarities there.  ALECHIA: I know the question is which one--which character in your book was the easiest and the   hardest um... I had--I really--I had an easier time--I had an easy time writing both of them   because I--they lived in my head um and I just--when I wrote them, they express   themselves and you just get better and better as you revise it. They both are fully realized to me   and I know that that sounds like 'Hey I'm really great!' I am not, but when I wrote this book, I   had that moment where I was like 'Okay I get them and I know what I need to do with them', and it's   the--really the hardest part about writing YA sci-fi or sci-fi in general is that you have to be   really smart [laughs] and I am not so there are times when I have to like sit down and read like   physics--physics for like dummies and I'm like 'Okay so why would that work?' and I   have to do a lot of research and um... it's really a lot of process to get through that   and there are a lot of questions that come up in sci-fi which you don't really think about. Like   in Star Wars, why is um R2D2 called R2D2 and why is it a western, like--why are they western   letters? And you're like 'because they are, I don't know,' um so [laughs] when you're thinking   about that and you're writing sci-fi you're like 'Oh no, do I have to understand why that is?   do I have to explain that?" And sometimes you do and it's really hard so that's the most difficult   part. That and if you're writing an alien invasion, you are now going to be compared against   every other alien invasion story and I don't know if you know this but there are really great alien   invasion stories that I cannot compete with. So I had to like, do it completely different way   and really just kind of twist it so it's um it's--I get my characters and what I want to have   happen and make it totally different than anything else because that's the only way they're gonna   publish me [laughs] so it's like I can't compete with like Independence Day, I have to do something   totally else. So that's what I did with--that's the hardest part of writing of writing The Sound   of Stars was the science fiction and making it unique enough to sell and making it unique enough   for me to understand the concept of my story and then also writing music lyrics throughout too.   So it was like--it's really a lot of stuff going on with that story and just kind of tapering it   in making everything make sense was the hardest part and not necessarily the characters. I know   that's really weird, bear with me, [laughs] that's all. J.ELLE: Yeah I know I--sci-fi, I just can't even,   that's one of the reasons why I love fantasy so much is because I'm like 'I don't know why it   works it's magic so there [laughing] that's my answer.' So I'm in awe. Okay we have a   couple more questions and then we're going to open it up wide. The next question is:   what do you enjoy most--writing or editing? And we can just go in the same order if   you want. We'll go Rena first, I think. RENA: Yeah I love editing. First drafts are   typically difficult for me because I'm still--even though I'm a plotter,   I tend to change a lot as I start to draft so it does still change. I'm not married to my plot   so they do shift. And I feel like the real story starts to come together once I've gone through a   couple rounds of editing. It is not unusual for me to be in pass pages and thinking 'Ah finally,   it's come together [laughs] after many many edits.' So I really enjoy that whole process   of actually making the story make sense, so that only happens with editing for me.  J.ELLE: Jane? JANE: Same. I love editing because my first draft is usually nonsense until it goes through a few   more edits, so I love just--I call it when I'm just writing initially, I kind of like put in   the bones of my story down and then later I flesh it out with the edits,   so I love doing that part but nothing beats just putting on headphones, listening to music and just   having your fingers move at crazy speed when you're writing. It's so satisfying, so that's   one aspect of writing that I really love. J.ELLE: I can relate, I love that. Cat!  CATHERINE: So um I'm a pantser until I was forced to be a plotter.   So my whole thing is writing. I love writing. I work as an editor, so editing is something   that I'm just like 'Oh Jesus here we go, I don't--I don't care--I don't care anymore,' but   um but I love to write, I just want to get everything kind of out on the page um and I love,   you know like Jane talking about that adrenaline that's when you just you typing and there's like   nothing--it almost feels like a superpower, you're one of the X-Men, okay? You just, you're a writer.   And I love to get all of that out and because I have editing as a skill and I do it for a living   right now, I can just go back and fix what I need to fix but writing, [sighs] that's--that's what I   love to do period point blank. J.ELLE: It's so exploratory,   you know, and like it's new. Denise! DENISE: I agree, I definitely say   writing and that moment when it's just flowing and it's--it goes on the page and I'm a pretty   fast drafter and so just seeing it kind of build and come together is amazing. I hate editing until   that magic moment when everything you just ripped apart comes back together and you're like 'Oh   like this is why I did all of that work,' and that sort of beautiful moment when you reread   it and like see how much better it is and then I change my answer and I'm like I love to edit.   And then I go back to not wanting to do it anymore and so um yeah I think I'm kind of all over   the place. It's the same thing with pantsing and plotting but... Yeah like especially when somebody   gives you fe--I get feedback from my editor and then it's almost like a challenge and I'm pretty   competitive and I'm like 'Okay challenge, I will win this, I can answer this question,   I can solve this problem.' um and then there's just sort of that accomplishment that comes through and   so I do love those moments of editing.    J.ELLE: I can totally relate. I jump around. It's like the grass is always greener [laughs]. Alechia?  ALECHIA: For me, it's writing. 100%. I love the--I get excited by the idea. I get hyped   about writing it. I can't wait and then I'm writing and I'm having such a good time   and that's it for me. I love it. The editing and revising part is kind of like where you really   have to just do line-for-line and you have to be a lot more specific about what you want to do now   and there are times when I really love that, but it will never beat drafting for me so   [laughs] I just love drafting. J.ELLE: That's awesome. I really am   all over the place, I see--you know like I see so much fun in both of the processes, it's just kind   of where I'm at. And I do feel like I burn out on one and then I want the other one, you know?   So yeah, there's something about a new story. Okay, so we'll do   uh one more question. One-ish more question and then we'll open it up to--oh, perfect timing.   We'll open it up to Q&A. So what project are you working on next? And we can start with uh Rena.  RENA: I am working on the third book in my YA fantasy series that I shall name--not name   the title because it's not been released yet. I'm working on that and then I am also working on the   third book in the Maya and the Rising Dark series. J.ELLE: Wow six books, Rena. I just--yeah I am in   awe, girl. RENA: I don't   know when the last time I slept, so [laughing]. J.ELLE: We hope for sleep in your near future.   Jane? JANE: Um,   I'm working on two books right now. The first is my second novel called The Sweetest Remedy.   Um, it's about a Nigerian--a biracial woman who's half-Nigerian and she goes back to Nigeria   to meet a family that she never knew because her father passed away, her Nigerian father,   and she's going to the funeral and it just--it's about identity and it's about discovering who   you are and deciding who you want to be. And I'm just very excited about this book because I think   it's an opportunity to show a different side of Nigeria. I know a lot of people   have certain concepts of that country in terms of the economy and the people,   but I wanted to show how... people who are very successful, very wealthy,   in many areas--and talented--living in Nigeria, and just paint a different picture, a realistic   picture of my country that people aren't aware of. So yeah, super excited about that. J.ELLE: That sounds so exciting and really like a great segue from your first book in terms   of like I feel like your readers are gonna love that. Um Cat, you wanna go next? CATHERINE: Yeah, so I have two   projects, one of them coming out um in May of this year, Every Body Shines. It's a YA anthology,   body positive YA anthology, um created by the lovely and wonderful Cass Newbould. And it's me and a lot of wonderful other authors Chris Baron, Sheena Boekweg, Rebecca Sky, Renée Watson, Jennifer   Yen, and and just a whole lot of you know different wonderful writers and we all have   like these different stories, um with body positive characters. And the story in Every Body Shines   by me is called Orion Star and then I get to do it like Black mother-daughter relationships   once again I think I might need a therapist... either way it's just a really really wonderful project   to be a part of and shout out to Cass Newbould for that. In 2022, we have another part of the   King series called Becoming Sarah King, um who was one of the characters in Saving Ruby King,   actually her grandmother--um I dub her as like a toxic legend um so she like seems really mean   and cruel and horrible until you get to know her backstory and then you're like 'Oh, sweet little   baby Jesus in a tuxedo, this is not who she was, aw.' And so you know in Becoming Sarah King   you get to explore how she became the way she became and I'm really really excited for that   story. J.ELLE: I love that, I'm gonna need that pre-order link stat, Cat. CATHERINE: Okay so--cause I get it girl... J.ELLE: Denise and then Alechia. DENISE: Yeah, so my second book is called The Fastest Way to Fall and it'll be out   in November I'll actually be revealing the cover and the blurb and everything   tomorrow so I gotta--that's what I'll be doing after this panel. Um, but several years ago I  was at a retreat and we were asked, you know, 'What's the last time you felt strong?'   and I thought about um being in the the gym and what it meant as a fat woman of color in Iowa   to be in the gym and owning my space and excited to be there--not because I was losing weight or   changing myself, but because I felt so strong and so I wanted to write a love story that like   had the heroine experiencing that strength and so, um finishing up that book, it just hopefully   is about to go to copy editing, so that for me is is one of the most Own Voices stories   that I could tell in so many ways, and so I'm really excited for that one to come out and the   hero is pretty book boyfriend, book boyfriend goals as well so there's that. And then I   I wrote a few novellas in December--my book came out in December, so I gave myself the month off   from writing and then I wrote 60,000 words of novella so I don't know where that came from but   I haven't come back to edit it yet. And then just a bunch of other projects to just kind of   keep my mind busy in pandemic times but really excited to release that book two in 24 hours. [laughs] J.ELLE: Yes! I'm excited. Alechia, you want to finish this up with that and then we're going to actually jump into   some Q&A if you haven't dropped any questions in the comments and we'll sort through those and   try to get to them. ALECHIA: I'm going to try to be super fast, um I have a lot of projects--like just a lot.   First, I have The Kindred which will come out in January next year, and it is a sci-fi   YA kind of romance, kind of space opera, kind of not--I don't know it's like, um, Ben Solo and   Rey mental connection, but imagine they were best friends for--and it was since birth--and   imagine neither of them are white [laughs] Because they--so  that's The Kindred, and it's really really fun   then you have a short story. I wrote a sci-fi version of Sleeping Beauty called Beauty Sleep,   um, and that will be out in Out There, an anthology I think the same year?   And then I have Sweet Stakes which is a foodie Dracula retelling and there's just so many donuts [laughs]  there's just so many donuts in that book, like I can't believe they're letting me do this   and also like, you know, vampires that are not good. And also a really really cute Van Helsing boy   who is about to be like 'What? I can't believe this big Black girl is so cute and I'm in love with   her, oh my goodness--and ooh what is going on?' So that, and then I have another project which I can't name   right now, but it's also foodie and also really really cute and magical. And then I have an   adult project which is really angry and totally not what you'd expect for me to write and very   twisty and dark and, uh, Black Panther-y and just, ooh I can't wait until people get to read it So all of those! And another one, but I'm not gonna tell you about that, it's way too much [laughs] Anyway, that's what I'm doing. I hope you all will look online and check it out.   J.ELLE: I love that, I--Alechia is one of my dear friends and CP, (Critique Partner) so I have to know about all of the stuff she   has going on and I'm excited because they'll be writing in different categories so that's   going to give just, you know, readers in different different areas a place to find you. Very excited   about this foodie vampire one. Very. [laughs] Okay, so we are  going to move into questions and what I'm going to   do for this--I don't want everybody to feel like you're pressured to chime in if you don't have   anything to say. So, we'll put the questions up, I will read them out, and then please feel free to   just kind of jump in--and of course I'll try to help direct if we get any crickets--but don't   feel like everyone has to answer every question if you don't have anything to add, that's fine. "How important was it to include Black joy and Black love within your stories to counteract the   Black trauma and stereotypical narrative?" Fantastic question, so timely. Anybody want to jump in on that?   CATHERINE: Um, it was, it was important for me to show Black families and like I said, Black father-daughter   relationships. It was very important for me to show those because like you didn't really get to see a   lot of those. Um, there aren't a lot of like light times in my book, but the times that I do have   joy in my book are like when Layla is messing with her her big-little artistic brother who--I   happen to have a big-little artistic brother--um when, you know, she's talking to her friend Tim   when she's reminiscing about the relationship that she had with her dad, Black love and Black joy   are very very important to include, and in Black books because we don't get to see a lot of it. But   I also feel that it's really important to not shy away from the hard things and the hard topics.   But that's the wonderful thing about this move in publishing. We get all of these different-- you know, we get the, you know, the Black love, the, you know, you know Denise. We get, um you know   the wonderful sci-fi Van Helsing girl. I want donuts? We got Alechia, we have Rena, we have J, we   have like all of these different, um you know, ways in which we can express Black love and Black joy   and I just find myself blessed to be able to do so with this lovely range of ladies. RENA: I--I would add um to what Cat said is, you know,  I think that we are now just starting to see a   variety, um in storytelling, um, style for Black books. The media has in the past been very   narrow in its focus on Black stories, and Black trauma has been primarily what gets attention, what gets focus, what gets marketing dollars, if we're being honest. And it's--it's amazing to be a part   of, you know, this movement where Black authors are now allowed to tell our stories. So for me   with Maya, like I wanted to have a balance of things, but I particularly wanted to have   tons of Black joy in the story for Maya and the Rising Dark because I did not want that to be looked over   being on the south side of Chicago and having seen that and experienced that, I wanted people to   see that, um, just to counter everything that we constantly kind of see on TV about Chicago.   So I think it's important because we don't want our kids to grow up with a single narrative   of this is one perspective of what Black people are like and, and that's just--that's   no good for anyone because it creates those stereotypes that have been perpetuated in media   and what we've seen on TV and such, so it is super important to have kind of that balance in stories. J.ELLE: I completely agree, I completely agree. Um, okay here's the next question and--I should wear my   glasses [laughs]. "How do you relate/connect to the reserved canon knowing that it was shaped to elevate   the dominant white male culture and silence/ignore/forget voices from your own communities?"  Come on [snaps] with the--with the questions! Now that's a great question, does anybody want to jump in? DENISE: Um, you know I think in romance in some ways there  has always been some some challenge to patriarchy-- that's a whole other conversation--but um, because of who romance has traditionally been written   for--which was often white, white women--um but, I do think in romance has pushed maybe ahead even of   some other genres in terms of representation and people clamoring for different stories, um, and so   I think that--that that's just part of the genre. I think it's a challenge to know that when you write   characters from your gays, from your perspective, for your community, whatever it might be, that some   readers aren't going to pick that up. That even if, you know, the publisher is picking that up that,   that there's going to be some challenge to that of having a person of color on the cover, of a Black   person on the cover, is going to make people not pick up the book. And, so I think as a as a writer   and working with your publisher, part of it is just understanding that and the reason you're writing   and telling the story that that you do. And that canon is canon 'cause...it's old. Um and it's   been around for a long time and who decided it was canon is probably dead, um or will be soon. And so   that you are changing things and that's slow, but knowing that you're going to hit those barriers   because people have certain expectations and as you challenge them, that is a wonderful thing and   you're opening up, you know, different roads in your genre and in literature--but also, I think   also having community with other authors and being prepared because you'll get pushback. That doesn't   just go away. Um, you'll get negative reviews, you'll get negative trade, um, you know you'll--you'll get   that because people aren't used to it and so, um [pause] I don't know where I'm going with that I'll let   it go [laughs] and I'll kill anybody else off, but um you know, I do think that that is, is par for the course   when you push against a system that needs to be pushed.   ALECHIA: Okay, I wanted to say, I wrote sci-fi, so a lot of--um you have Octavia Butler, you have so many--and N.K. Jemisin--you have all these amazing sci-fi   authors who are Black, who are doing the thing, and Ray Ellison, you know, all of this is happening   and then you think about it. Which of the ones have been picked up and made into movies and made   like, gigantic? And it's usually by white guys so--and you know, there's a gigantic   community of white guys who write sci-fi. Now I think about it like this: you know--and   I'm gonna be like such a nerd right now--but you know like, in um X-Men where it's like, Magneto said, "We are the future, not them. They no longer matter." That's where I'm coming from in that. So, I'm kind   of like it's been done, sure, but I'm gonna do it a totally different way and maybe I'm not gonna   get as much money, maybe I'm not is--gonna, I'm not gonna get that giant boost that they get, but I'm gonna do something with this and it's gonna make an impact. Maybe not now, maybe not   next year, but like in a few years, people are gonna be like, 'Oh, that was happening.' Octavia Butler paved   the way for us so that we could do this, and I am not about trying to like (1) cater to the white   gays, because I don't even think about it. And it's because so many other people have been there   for us to make sure we don't have to. We are like--we get to take the ball and we don't--maybe we're   not running with it, but we're walking a little faster with it. And I'm--I'm looking forward to the   day when we can run with it. So, I'm not thinking about it to answer the question. I am just doing   and if anybody tells me no, then maybe I'll stop and consider it, but so far nobody has said no   completely, and that's why I'm just like, 'I'm gonna do it. Nobody's gonna tell me. I'm having a great   time with it.' And you know I'm--I'm excited to see what the future looks like for us. CATHERINE: Yeah, I mean, girl, you--you said everything that--that I was gonna say and then some, but I mean basically   you ignore it. [laughs] It's not like the the the white canon was all that interesting to begin with, you   know what I mean? It-it-it wasn't. We are, you know what I mean? The way that we shape literary culture   in all our different genres, you know, like at least you were saying--it may not happen today, it may not   happen tomorrow, but you don't recognize we are. So I don't pander to the white gays, I don't live in   a white neighborhood, you know? I mean, I enjoy a Pumpkin Spice Lattes so I'm not going to lie, but   um, but it-it just it has to do with being true to who you are. You can't be true to who you   are and write something authentic if you stand up there trying to pander to the to the white   gays like your writing is going to come off tepid, stilted, one-dimensional. You write to who you are,  you write to your experience, and the sky's the limit. I mean--and I'm not talking about making   lists, I'm literally talking about being able to look yourself in the mirror, look at your writing   and be like, 'I did that and I'm happy I did that.' [nods & snaps] J.ELLE: Cathy taking us to church, y'all. Go ahead, Cathy!   Every aspiring writer that I hope is like, eyes glued to the screen right now, needs to hear you   write your story. Um, okay next question: "Did you use a sensitivity reader for your books?" And maybe if   so, like maybe you can talk a little bit more about why that was important to you and like what that   process was like. Uh, does the publisher help with that or is it something that you had to figure out?   ALECHIA: So, um Inkyard Press makes sure that you do a sensitivity read before you even are ready for   the sensitivity read, um and that's really really helpful. I had like two or three sensitivity reads   and I wanted the other two. And I don't--I--I think because we are just so concerned that we don't   want to do anything wrong--and that's great. I really really appreciate that so much and it   gives you so much perspective and thought that really helps you shape how you're going to tell   your stories from there on, and--and how people are taking in your stories in different ways,  and that's really really exciting to me. Um, and I did it for--one of the characters is non-binary,   so I had um someone read for that. And of course, I'm Black and I'm all of these things, but it   was great to have somebody who was Black, who is fat, who is queer, who could read that and be like,   'Okay, I like what you're doing. Here's how you could do this a little better.'   and that was really really helpful to me, so yes! Sensitivity readers? Eight thumbs up. [laughs] J.ELLE: I'm just gonna chime in briefly to say like, I'm still not fully understanding why sensitivity readers aren't an   integral part to like every publisher's process. Like, I don't understand the reason why not.   For multiple reasons, like if a book is is going to represent a particular marginalization, not only   is like hiring someone from that community as a sensitivity reader, you're putting money in that person's   pocket which is just fantastic. But it's also just like a great way to just like ensure that   you know, we don't know everything and we don't know a lot of times how things will come off, so yeah. "As Black authors, what resources, conferences, etc. do you utilize?" DVCon. CATHERINE: Um, I'll just say, uh, like I said I was a first time writer, um so I didn't really have anything   to necessarily fall back on. However, the writing community is so supportive. I was able to find a   lot of different people, um resources, books--craft books because I mean, I used to shy away from them   being like, 'I don't need that.' And after I read that first draft, I was like, 'Oh lord, I need that, I need   that so hard.' Um, so I mean for me, I leaned on the writing community and that's how I found like, this   fountain of experience and--and just like I said, like these wonderful--I've known all of these   ladies for like at least what? Two--two three years, something like that. So um, for me I leaned on the   writing community and--and that's how I even found out about #DVpit which got me my agent, which got   me my book deals. So I mean, if you just kind of, you know, just kind of dip your toe in the writing   community and--and and see what there is. I'm not even on Twitter; there--there are different other   places around, because in Chicago there aren't a lot of like writing groups, at least like, not   really any on the south side of Chicago that I was able to partake in. So just, kind of, you know, doing   your research online, you're--you're able to find a way to, um, connecting people maybe not necessarily   in your community, although I would love to do that, especially right now, um, but you know just   all over the country, all over the world, so just kind of dip your toe in the writing community, um   and--and see what comes up. You will you will be the better for it, I do promise you that. I guarantee. RENA: I can only echo what Cat just said. Um, in Chicago, I didn't necessarily feel--and maybe it has a lot   to do with just kind of being busy in a city--it's a city and it's really large--but it is   sometimes hard to connect with people, um, in your same industry, being writing. And online just   offered a wealth of opportunity for me. So DVcon and #DVpit. I did--Ii got my agent through   Pitch Wars, uh, which is a mentorship program. But then there are all these other groups, um there's   Twitter, and you really want to connect with other writers. And particularly when we're thinking   about Black writers, it's so important to connect because we know the the unique challenges that  we're facing in this industry, and I do think that we are very open and honest with sharing with each   other when we talk about like, um, discrepancies and disparities and--and pay and salary and how   that works and--and how we're treated in marketing dollars. All of that stuff. So we're willing to   share that, um, information with each other, you know. It's not something we're necessarily going to be   posting on Twitter every day, but we're definitely in these groups and supporting each other in that   way. So finding your community is--is so important so that you're not kind of stumbling through   this very complicated, convoluted industry, sometimes. I mean, it's a great industry, but   it can be very difficult and challenging, so having that community is so important. JANE: Um, well before I started writing, I was very lonely in the craft. I had--no one else, um it was   no one in my life who loved writing, and so writing was very isolating. It only stopped after   I entered Pitch Wars and then I met so many other writers. I can say at that time, there's a lot of   resources for Black writers, I don't know because I hardly knew of the resources for writers in   general. I was very isolated and my only first exposure was through Pitch Wars, which opened   a lot of doors to me. I met a lot of people and there was a Twitter group, um   with a lot of, um, female authors--Black female author--that I believe some of us or all of us   are part of. And I got to connect with a lot of people who read my first draft of Ties That Tether. And I built relationships with people I really genuinely love and who have helped me improve as   a writer. And um, currently I know that there is a website or so that has a list of, um Black agents   and Black editors, and that to me is so important for authors to know because I'm learning that   sometimes you need someone who understands where  you're coming from. An agent or an editor, it's so   very important and I think that's the resource that a lot of Black authors can utilize to their benefit. J.ELLE: Yeah, I second all of--second, third, fourth all of this. Um, the common thread is like, Twitter. [laughs]   Like, there is an amazing community of writers, Black writers, on Twitter, especially   um, and it's interesting because the answer isn't like, 'Oh, this particular craft book.' The interest is--  the answer is very much like each other, which I think says a lot about, like our community, and I   love that--that we've all sort of found, you know, some--we've always had similar experiences where   we've connected with other people through this  sort of vast social media, um, platform, which has   become very useful. Pitch Wars, #DVpit, #PitMad, all of these pitch contests and things like that, a lot   of them happen, or promoted heavily on Twitter. So next question; we have time for a couple more.   "How did you choose your agents?" We'll start with Rena and then pop to--oh I forgot, sorry who wants   to jump in? [laughs] Not everybody needs to answer. RENA: I can go really really quickly, um so as I mentioned I   got my agent through Pitch Wars so I had a couple offers, and I am very much an analytical person so   I just um, kind of took the offers and then I went back and looked at their interviews. I talked   to clients; I looked at their sales; I talked to past clients as well to see why they had left   um, and so really just doing your research and then kind of weighing them against each other in   a sense to see kind of which ones I thought would be the best fit. And the final thing that was important   is that conversation with the agent to see, 'Do I feel like this is someone I could work with? Are   we having a similar style? Are we looking kind of for the same thing? And is this agent   looking at my career as a whole?' Because I'm not really one of those like, 'Oh I just want to write   one book.' I knew I wanted a career, so how's this agent kind of focus on that larger, bigger picture.   DENISE: Yeah, I'd agree. I--I connected with my agent ultimately through a match on   #DVpit, so woo! And ended up with um, I think four offers, and so um in those conversations, one   other thing I--I asked that somebody suggested is how they envisioned my book fitting in the market   and then what, um, so change--what suggestions they would have before it went on sub, which was really   helpful to see kind of their vision. Um, and you know talking to past, their--their current, their   past clients, looking at sales, all of that. And then for me, it was it sort of came down to that gut   feeling of 'Who do I want to partner with?' Because it seems like so much of the goal is get an agent,   and I have my agent, and then I just, I punt to them, which you do sometimes, but really your business   partners. And so it's looking at you know who do I want to be business partners with. And for me, my   agent is the person who met all my criteria on the other things and when we talked, I just felt that   comforted, supported feeling and that definitely has been accurate in our   whole working relationship. So um, but definitely ask other people go off-book   um as--especially as--as Black authors, as people of color, like a lot of the agents are white. My   agent is white, I love her to pieces, um, but I, you know, wanted to talk to other people and   just make sure, you know, what am I getting into with this agency, um with this agent   and you can ask other clients and kind of look for that too. So that's a bit of advice. J.ELLE: Just jumping into echo that. I found my agent on #DVpit as well, or through #DVpit as well. I--I   entered a pitch contest and then ended up with good visibility and I ended up    getting multiple offers and signing with my--with my agent. CATHERINE: Same thing for me. Um, #DVpit and--and true to be told um, like the Y--like   two days: you have adult, YA and adult, and I was on the adult day, got attention, it was great, and   I met my agent and she was just starting out and I was just starting out and it was kind of risky   to--to go with a newer agent, but like the lady said, you do your research, talk to previous clients   um, and I was really comfortable with her and it's worked out really well, so. J.ELLE: Okay, and this will be our last question from the audience for today.  "Have you learned any good digital marketing strategies for your book?" This is a fantastic question, especially considering the climate right now. DENISE: I was blessed with a marketing team at Berkley who is younger--and if not younger, just cooler than   me. And so they wanted to do some TikTok videos, and I was like, I don't really 100% know   what TikTok is, but that's cool, go for it. Um, so I think, uh other authors have had a   ton of success doing TikTok and real videos in terms of digital marketing and figuring out   how to tap into trends. Um, I think as--and you know, as traditionally published authors   sometimes there's a limit to what we can do in terms of publicity, so it's thinking about   how to harness your platform and your network, whatever it is, to reach the people where they are   and--and thinking about being creative and a little silly and putting yourself out there because   that's just sort of where we are culturally. So someday, I'll learn TikTok, but I think   that--that worked well and so I would put that forward to folks who are thinking about options. J.ELLE: I'm going to boost TikTok because I'm mildly  addicted. It is my self-care time, and the Book Tok   is like this whole world that I'm only just getting to know, but it's been fun. Any other suggestions or things that you picked up from your debut experience? [RENA & CATHERINE both start talking] RENA: I mean, I'll say really   quickly. I would just add, um you know if you feel comfortable with it, being visible online. I mean   we've gone through the pandemic and it's changed kind of how authors are reaching, um, potential   readers, so doing things like this event with DVcon, doing panels, um doing those Instagram   Lives, I'm shocked the amount of people who love to just come and listen to us talk about--geek   out about books so like those are--they seem really small, but they do matter because they help people   um connect to authors in ways that they may not have been because they couldn't travel   to conferences or they couldn't come out to your events because you're a world apart, so   that, you know, that can't be understated how important it is to you know put yourself out there.  CATHERINE: Um, I'll just piggyback off of what Rena said,  um, but I just wanted to add something different. Do   research. I didn't know, and--and that's ignorance on my part. I didn't know that there was a community   of Black bookstagrammers. Had no clue. But once I started doing research, I was literally able to   find a list of wonderful people. So a lot of whom I--I have with--a standing relationship with, and   you cultivate those relationships. Um, and you'll be surprised. I mean it really does pay dividends and   I just--I've had a fantastic time and yeah, the TikTok videos are uh. J.ELLE: Thank you all so much. For my very last question, where can we all find--where can people find you? We'll go in order, so we'll go Rena, Jane, and then I think the order we had was Cat, Denise, Alechia, so.   RENA: I can be found on Instagram or, um where else? Twitter! Yes, Twitter [laughs] @renathedreamer. JANE: Um, I can be found on Twitter @VictoriousJane and on Instagram @jane_igharo.  CATHERINE: Um, I can be found on Twitter and Instagram under, uh @cawest329, and my website is catherineadelwest.com. DENISE: I got so lost in Cathy's voice, I just got distracted.   Um, I can be found on Instagram and Twitter at @nicwillwrites (n-i-c)   and I hope I'll see you there! Don't look for me on Facebook because I rarely check it. [laughs] ALECHIA: Uh, you can find me on Twitter as @alechiawrites   and you can find me on Instagram as @alechiadow. There's no underscore or anything like that. And   I think I'm on Facebook, but I also don't like checking it because it's just ohh [shudders] Facebook. J.ELLE: Yes, and if for whatever reason you'd like to find me, I'm also on Twitter and Instagram and you can   find me uh on TikTok @AuthorJElle and 'Elle' is spelled e-l-l-e. On Instagram it's @authorj.elle and then on--on Twitter it's @AuthorJ_Elle. So not to be complicated, but thank you all so much   for tuning in. We hope this is really helpful, we can't wait for you to grab all of these   authors amazing books and devour them and their many many many many many projects to come.   We encourage you to reach out on social media and share how much you've been you're enjoying   DVcon and how much you enjoyed this panel, on social media. Thank you so much for your time   and everything today. If anyone has lingering questions, please feel free to hash--I'm sorry, I'm   just volunteering y'all on social media--feel free to like, reach out and just tell them you   enjoyed the panel, if you have any follow-up questions, and maybe they'll be able to answer   those for you. Thank you all so much for joining us, we hope you have a wonderful rest of DVcon. [waves]  [Everyone says 'Thanks,' overlapping with each other.]

Channel: DVcon

Views: 355

Rating: 5 out of 5

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Id: AW9LN9QyM60

Length: 88min 36sec (5316 seconds)

Published: Sun Jan 31 2021