Ice Age Floods - New Thoughts

foreign everybody it's Monday morning there is no school I'm in a parking lot at Central Washington University and I cannot get my normal camera functioning for some reason and maybe I'll just kind of toss this out a little bit it's been more than a week since I've played with the starlink system so let's make sure we're functional number one and then I think this will be a quick one but I'm bummed I've spent 15 minutes trying to get this to communicate properly so let me grab an iPad gee well it looks like we're five by five so thank you for that um how's everything going with you today I well I'll tell you the whole story here in just a second but let's see if I can get something going at least on this iPad I'm kind of Playing Tricks on myself here uh on purpose uh and I'll explain in just a second okay so yep okay great let's say hi to a few of you and I'll I'll explain this weird building behind me and uh do a little bit of techie stuff and talk about the Ice Age floods and some new thoughts that I have uh and then we'll say goodbye to each other this morning uh the local time is uh 9 30 a.m on Monday May 29th 2023 where are you viewing from this morning uh Gene says it's great in Puyallup palentine Illinois Menominee Michigan Eugene Oregon Media Pennsylvania Marinette Wisconsin Gypsum Colorado Pence uh Pendleton Oregon it's sunny down there Myra's in Canal or Cornell Friday Harbor hello Lebanon Oregon Bend Oregon Boise Idaho hi Jeremy Apache Junction Arizona Lake Chelan that's Grammy by the Lake Odessa Denmark Kirkland Washington Lebanon Oregon Germantown Maryland knitards Oregon lots of Pacific Northwest viewers this morning whoop there's Marguerite from the Netherlands at 6 30 p.m there oh wait okay so let's let's get into it oh my God all right so um I promise I'm getting to some ice age floods content I don't know maybe I'm not I'm not happy with this you know what I think this is going to be just a techie thing and more of a diary for myself than anything else so have you been able to figure out that first of all I'm using starlink second of all this uh mid-century modern not my favorite style but whatever is the original Library here at Central Washington University why isn't that working so uh assuming you can hear me and see me uh you are sitting in the back of the car with the hatchback up I might as well try to show you around here a little bit I guess so I'm I'm if you're new and haven't seen us in a while uh I have this new technology using Starlight satellite dishes or satellite satellites and uh that is there that thing is the starlink dish and I'm only a few blocks from home and uh the well I'll come in here like this well maybe I will do some ice Edge floods this isn't bad right in here so um two weeks ago I guess two weeks ago I tried using the starlink dish for the first time in my backyard and I was never dreamed it would actually work but I got step after step after step after step and and made it work great next morning Monday morning two weeks ago I uh cranked it up again not using internet not using uh cell coverage just using the Starlight satellites it worked then uh I hit the road and I drove to Reno and the last time I tried this was more than a week ago uh on the way to Reno Nevada and I was at Summer Lake in a very remote part of Eastern Oregon and just took a noon hour to stretch my legs set everything up out of the back of the car and it worked but things overheated pretty quickly and so I used many of your comments uh from that summer link test and took them to heart specifically why don't you use the back of your car why don't you have the hatchback up and why don't you just basically have the open hatch of the tail of your Ford Escape this is a university car that I that I uh that I use why don't you use the back of your escape and you can be protected from the Sun that way so that's what I'm trying today so um that explains the hatch uh I only wanted to be a few blocks away from home in case the car died so here's a quick okay so are we ever going to get to the ich floods I don't know I grew up on a farm in Wisconsin my dad had nothing but equipment from the 40s and 50s and you're like oh that's cool you guys had really old equipment well yeah it's kind of cool I guess like it's equipment that he basically used when he was a kid but then the uncool part of it is that nothing worked everything broke down it's time to make some hay while the baler's screwed up and we spend more time trying to troubleshoot and fix things than actually doing the work and as a teenager a moody teenager I would get more and more upset about this well I have personal baggage then involving dead batteries our cars our tractor nothing started nothing it was like a shock if something started so I tell you all this because this hatchback is open right now I don't know enough about modern cars to know if I'm going to have a dead battery and I literally didn't want to leave town with a hatchback open for fear that I'll have a dead battery in this car I know for 95 percent of you this is an unreasonable frame of mind but it's just it's just a hang up I have my dad was a wonderful guy but I hated that part where there were dead batteries so I have no idea if this thing will start I have no idea how much time I have with an open I see people with their hatchbacks open for hours geologists I'm out in the field they're just having lunch sitting in the back of their car everything's open doors are open dome lights are on there's no dome light on right now I don't think so anyway if you have something helpful with that I'd be interested um I'm not even going to bother using this iPad because I can see you right here and weirdly I guess I'm learning that this is not bad like there's sun coming through the there's sun coming through the back window I I pointed the car this is a few of you suggested this point the car towards the morning sun have the Sun come in I didn't say that but anyway you know there's tinted windows or whatever so okay that's kind of a happy accident my struggle this morning and then I think I am going to get to some ice age floods my struggle this morning is I have this camera on a tripod which I used successfully three times and I I can't seem to get it to communicate with OBS on my laptop but whatever I'll figure it out but I spent 15 minutes unplugging plugging restarting the whole thing uh what else from uh star the starlink world can I report on probably nothing okay so now that I can see your chat uh your comments and I'm going to go to live chat I don't think there's a difference really for us between top chat and live chat whatever I have a question for you and I'm going to pause and I'm going to read your comments are you ready the content has begun at whatever it's a 10 minute Mark okay Ice Age floods in the Pacific Northwest off the top of your head can you please type right now what you know about the Ice Age floods what you've heard what you've read what you've seen uh your answers or your your sentences right now are frag or phrases or whatever can be places they can be dates they can be um Concepts sources of the water what the water looked like which places are we talking about and I'm just going to randomly read a bunch of stuff from you and then I'm going to share some of my brand new thoughts from this spring uh 40 to 50 floods multiple floods water from Montana thank you this is exactly what I'm looking for glacial Lake Missoula times 40. multiple floods from Lake Missoula possibly 100 episodes of flooding scrolling too fast but I'm just going to grab what I can slack water sediment they were huge not only the last glaciation people witnessed them chocolate milk glacial Lake Missoula glacial Lake Missoula Missoula floods big icy lake Missoula Montana scablands not all from Missoula some came from Canada giant lakes in Eastern Washington into Montana Dry Falls ice tunnels scablands water from Glacier to lobes thank you this is great wet cement younger driest many floods from different sources potholes Lakes Indian stories about the floods younger driest younger dryas meteor interesting is that all the same person I think it is Noah's Ark Cooley making ice dams form Glaciers are formed by glaciers icebergs dropping erratics okay give me some more pla thank you this is just what I want to give me some more places now maybe I'll kill you just a little bit what places in the Pacific Northwest doesn't have to be Washington but obviously I'm washington-centric what what places are we talking about for this story I'm just going to look for places now in the Pacific Northwest Clark Fork Idaho Eddie Narrows Montana Dry Falls Washington wallula Gap Southern Washington Hells Canyon order Oregon Idaho border Moses Cooley ensure ranch or esquier Ranch Grand Coulee Lake Lewis doesn't exist anymore Moses Cooley Frazier River Lake Bonneville it doesn't exist anymore slack water lakes Palouse Palouse Falls Columbia River Okanagan Okanagan Willamette Valley in Oregon Palouse Falls scablands just Pacific Northwest please Columbia Gorge Sandpoint Idaho Clark thank you this is this is I'm setting you up for a discussion here I think I will go ahead and keep this one Billy Clapp Lake interesting West Bar Ritzville area my backyard Spokane okay thank you one more prompt for you what dates do you have in mind when did this story happen when did this Ice Age flood story happen according to what you have learned whether it's from me in videos or Bruce bjornstad books or scientific papers um okay 12 000 years ago 17 000 years ago 11 200 to 12 800 years ago fifteen thousand years ago seventeen thousand years ago 12 to 13 000 years ago and prior nine thousand years ago twelve thousand years ago 10 to 20 000 years ago millions of years ago seventeen thousand five hundred years ago six thousand years ago twelve to seventeen thousand Millions to twelve thousand years ago which which Ice Age says James 18 000 years ago okay terrific okay well thank you you've done your part and I will read all of those comments and replay I do appreciate it um let me share some new thoughts that I have and you might go what those are new thoughts for you I've had those thoughts for 25 years well maybe so but I'm just reporting on myself now and um I have this is the last week of geology 351 in the spring term this is the last week of classes coming up tomorrow and I'm giving my last lecture in class tomorrow with our students and our last field trip will be Thursday and then the final exam so I don't know if you've um I don't think I've I've done anything really sharing my thoughts on the Ice Age floods here on the YouTube channel I did share some of these themes that I've been working on uh with the audio podcast an episode called Spokane glaciation question mark but I think here I'm going to try um I'm going to try it in video form I'm going to get a sore lower back I'm not hunched over here but weirdly I like I like that I like the light I like the intimacy of this I don't know maybe I have kind of if I can start this car when I'm done I know that's weird maybe I will I won't bother with all these fancy cameras maybe I'll do a bunch of stuff just like this I don't know it it's funny this technology stuff I promise I'm getting to my part with the ice age it's funny that almost all the stuff I'm doing is discovered by accident it feels like it really does and maybe that's maybe you can say that about life it just you acquire wisdom mainly through trial and error and it's mostly error I don't know before I share my thoughts let me get this thing out of the sun since it's not working I don't know did this camera not work because it's overheated already I don't think so okay so uh can I check are we five by five number one and number two um let me give you a good solid 10 minutes of just riffing off the top of my head and then if you have any things you want to ask or whatever we'll be good okay five by five okay so here we go assuming you haven't heard any of this from me our class started in early April it's now almost early June so this is two months more or less of me reading and thinking and listening to the students and working on some themes and at the beginning of the geology 351 class which I have not been live streaming if you're like oh my God I I saw every geology 351 class two years ago well we were still kind of in covid and I was I was way more dedicated to having a full class online and I thought there was a chance I would do that this spring but for a number of reasons um it just didn't happen so I am sufficiently in on many new Thoughts with the Ice Age floods and so I'm sharing them with you now but I think that I'm just going to continue through at least the first half of the summer uh because there's lots for me to follow up on personally and I'm really looking forward to learning what I can on my own and then kind of checking in I don't know hunch like this in my in my hatchback these might be hatchback sessions okay no more stalling here we go the two themes that I discovered with my students are students are you telling me that every drop of Ice Age flood water that surged through Eastern Washington came from Montana and at the beginning of the quarter the students were like yeah that's the story they're called the Missoula floods aren't they and I said that's right many people call them the Missoula floods literally meaning that glacial Lake Missoula drained quickly and that water rushed through the panhandle of Idaho and then over Spokane Washington and that Missoula flood water took different routes depending on which part of the story we're talking about the Missoula flood talking about the conventional story now whether that Missoula flood water went down the Cheney Palouse track or the Telford crab Creek track or the Grand Coulee or Moses Cooley or stayed in the Columbia Valley itself all the way around the horn Brewster Chelan Wenatchee Vantage and so on but I told the students when we started I have a strong suspicion that there are additional sources of water students and so we're going to try to learn what we can from new scientific papers from a PhD dissertation and by living breathing geologists who are going to be with us here in the classroom this spring that's why I was talking to telling the students in early April and I said we're gonna we're gonna meet directly geologists who have a convincing case if you ask me the instructor that it's not all water from Montana that depending on where you are and when you are there are substantial amounts of water coming directly across the border from Canada underneath the ice sheet okay to add to that I've been trying to find phrases that work generally if you are a Missoula flood person only and that is the conventional story now and many of you typed in the word Missoula or Montana and I totally understand that that's that's all over the literature that's all over any public program that you've ever heard but if you're that conventional Ice Age floods geologist and you are talking about all the water coming from Montana you are assuming therefore that all of those floods are happening under a Starry Sky or under a sunny day if you're really saying that all that water is coming from Montana and the water is being released into the Pacific Northwest yeah as far as the Pacific Ocean you assume that that flood water is traveling sub-aerially under air Open Sky open air and I'm pausing because if you are a Missoula flood person as it is specifically delineated in people's minds every drop of water coming from Montana including Moses Cooley then you have this ice marginal flooding you're truly flooding out in front of the ice sheet and the assumption is that there's nothing going on underneath the ice or if there is something going on underneath the ice sheet as the ice is sitting there if you're a Montana person saying that it's only Montana water you're saying that that action underneath the ice sheet is not worth thinking about minor if any Rushing Water okay well many of you especially if you've seen some of the videos with Jerome Lessman and Joel gambiner this spring have heard a different story and those guys 100 agree that Glacier Lake Missoula is important and the source of much of the Ice Age flood water in the Pacific Northwest came from Montana they're not they're not saying that's not a thing but they are saying would you please look at what we have been studying what we have been mapping what we've been documenting in Northern Washington in a place where the Okanagan ice sheet was sitting multiple times in the past there's radio channels there's eskers there's landforms that scream major amounts of water there's bed forms there's giant current ripples in this place that was under ice so if you're losing it if you only are saying that flooding is happening out in front of the ice sheet then why is there all this evidence in Northern Washington and Southern British Columbia where the ice sheet was sitting why is there evidence of running water and then I guess if you're a Montana only water source person you say well I guess that's when the ice sheet had already backed away again sticking to your guns that the only time that you're getting flooding is when you're under open air so if you are willing to cross this mental Bridge and there are some geologists who are firmly against this but if you are willing dear viewer to entertain at least the possibility of subglacial flow of having major ice age floods traveling underneath the ice sheet and therefore emerging from the front of the ice itself then that's a game changer to use a phrase that is overused and kind of trite that's a game changer all right that's only one of the two themes and that's the theme that I knew that I was going to be getting into because I you know I lined up those visits from Sky Cooley and Jerome Lessman and and um Joel gombiner you know in in February they all visited in April but the other theme that I'm working with and I promise I'm coming to you in a bit the other theme that I stumbled into by accident is the idea that there perhaps are at least two major chapters an old chapter and a young chapter to explain the Ice Age floods geology that we all know here in Washington that was unexpected old chapter young chapter it's not all happening at the same time so when I asked you for dates most of you gave dates in the thousands of years and that's totally reasonable that's generally what is mentioned in fact that's what I've taught for most of my career here in Washington we have three lectures on the Ice Age floods and the first day I tell my geology 101 students listen up everybody Our Story begins twenty thousand years ago twenty thousand years ago student that's the beginning of the story and there's a nice sheet that's about to cross the border from Canada into Northern Washington and as that ice sheet advances young students 19 000 years ago 18 and a half thousand years ago 18 000 years ago and sets up shop in Northern Washington on the Waterville plateau we're going to create all of these features this is what I've been telling my students as recently as last year last fall in class that the Grand Coulee was carved Moses Cooley was carved major ice age floods down the Columbia at Wenatchee and Chelan The Cheney Palouse Waters screaming down the Columbia River Gorge south of the Tri-Cities water is getting held up at constrictions in the Columbia River Gorge at Portland and water sloshing down passively to Eugene Oregon and all that water goes away and gets out to the Pacific Ocean and that happens dozens of times my message to everybody I'm guilty of doing it in video form those videos still exist I was telling the conventional story that everything was happening all the flooding all the carving of the coolies all the waterfall uh Rim Retreats all the Deep potholes drilled into Bedrock the giant flood bars deposited at Wenatchee in other places the conventional story is that all of that was happening younger than 20 000 years ago basically between twenty thousand years ago and about 13 000 years ago we have no dates with the Ice Age flood deposits younger than about thirteen thousand years ago so what's the new theme the new theme is that now the conventional geologists the people who've done most of the work Brian Atwater Richard Waite Jim O'Connor those three names come to mind there are plenty of others they are now in print in the last five years saying there is an older story and older than 20 000 year story where we are carving portions of the Pacific Northwest by Massive floods and that's brand new to me very exciting and it's still open to debate how old is old but it's looking like developing upper Grand Coulee for instance has to be an older than 20 000 year story why because sitting on the floor of the upper Grand Coulee is evidence for ice that the ice sheet younger than 20 000 years ago flowed into an upper Grand Coulee that's already been carved and that's just one example Moses Cooley same thing now I don't know if you've ever given this some thought I'm just going to share a few a few more random thoughts and then I'm going to go to your questions I think and remember this is just the first of many um Ice Age flood live streams probably we'll call these the dead battery sessions how about that got my phone Liz would you come pick me up at school can't get my car to start if you're familiar with the cooleys of Eastern Washington or no if you're familiar with the channeled scablands of Eastern Washington places where flood water was definitely flowing uh okay so we're going to use this this uh building this is called bullion Hall so over here that's your right isn't it is that your right that should be your right so Spokane's over there and wenatchee's over here Ah that's dumb let's just do it verbally why aren't there major coolies in Eastern Washington why isn't there a major Coulee south of Spokane there was a lot of flood water that came down that Cheney Palouse track the list is gone but there's no major coolies that you can drive up there's no Grand Coulee south of Spokane why the Telford crab Creek you'll have to look that one up but that's kind of a bastard stepchild nobody really thinks much about it but as you work your way west to the Grand Coulee then Moses Cooley then Wenatchee where the Columbia River Valley is and that's where a bunch of Ice Age flood water came down as well why are those coolies so much bigger why don't we have each channeled scabland in Eastern Washington looking the same those kinds of basic questions never really occurred to me get pretty excited trying to explain them and one angle is well you have additional sources of water coming down the Okanagan directly from the Okanagan ice sheet but let's not we don't have to go there other random new thoughts big and small that I'll be talking about tomorrow in class Jay Harlan Bretz in the early 1930s made a case that the upper Grand Coulee was carved long before the lower Grand Coulee now I'd never heard that until a month ago when I was on a field trip with Carl lulquist a buddy that I teach with here so if you're familiar with the grand cooler you know that Dry Falls which is a famous place to stop and have an ice cream cone Dry Falls sits at the boundary between to the north that's the upper Grand Coulee and to the South that's the lower Grand Coulee another way of saying it is the the part of the Grand Coulee that's between Soap Lake and Dry Falls that's the lower Grand Coulee with the floor being quite low then if you climb up onto the top of Dry Falls and you go from Coulee City North to Coulee Dam I know all these places with the word Coulee in them is confusing if you live in France yeah that upper Grand Coulee is on Trend with the lower Grand Coulee it has the same shape both of them have an expansion bar at their southern end I'm still trying to learn more detail about why Brett's and apparently now everybody sees that the upper Grand Coulee has to be carved earlier than the lower Grand Coulee but if we go back to my story that not everything's happening at the same time and if we realize that perhaps there are floods that go back a million years or more is it possible that the upper Grand Coulee was carved wide open as early as one million years ago yes or no and if it's not possible I'd like to hear why but if it is possible what does that mean well that means that the intake the northern entrance into the upper Grand Coulee if it's totally carved out and it's just as big as it is today then why are we even talking about glacial Lake Columbia being a big deal because that opening to the upper Grand Coulee is a siphon it's it's it's the drain in the bathtub anytime we dump a Missoula flood into the Columbia River Valley Upstream of Grand Coulee Dam why is there any huge lakes in there except when the most recent ice Advanced clogs up or sits in that opening it gets complicated and I'll wrap up by saying this when Jerome Lessman was staying at our house last month or yeah still last month and he's the Canadian geologist who was on sabbatical this spring he still is on sabbatical and he was staying at my house and then we were he was teaching in my classroom and Jerome and I were going out and I I really am uh motivated and inspired by Jerome's new work and he's currently writing a new paper with Joel gumbeiner on this Moses Cooley story or at least the channels up in the Mansfield Channels with both of those guys were mapping independently of each other without even knowing they were both working on the same thing and their Maps turned out to be very similar using totally different methods I might add where was I going with that oh boy what was I just saying oh God this is live I was talking about the upper Grand Coulee being opened up and then I said that siphon is long lasting amen I lost my train of thought what do you want from me it was going to be good too God damn it why did I start talking about Jerome I was probably leading towards the idea that Jay Harlan Bretz had the ice sheet from that older time possibly a million years ago or at least the earliest part of the last glaciation down over Spokane Washington and so the concept that we have subglacial flow responsible for each of the channels of Eastern Washington is a radical thought but I don't think it's a crazy thought okay let's stop there we've been getting plenty of strange looks now from people it's after 10 o'clock they're walking on campus on this beautiful peaceful Memorial Day holiday no school today here in the states um uh uppercase for your questions please we'll do a little bit of live q a and then we'll and then we'll uh we'll call it good the sun is still not bad through this I'll be curious to see yeah um if you go to nicksetner.com upper right hand corner 351 click on the numbers 351 you'll find just a handful of scientific papers that we've been studying this spring and if you're unaware of those papers there's plenty in there including Joel's combiners thesis on Moses Cooley some old papers by Jerome Lessman and a brand new paper by Richard Waite and Brian Atwater among others uppercase police for your questions let's do a handful of those questions before we go Ethan wouldn't Eastern Washington glaciation remove all of the looks wouldn't Eastern um thank you Ian Ethan well the the so it's a question of how far south did the ice sheet get in Washington and I don't think anybody is saying the ice sheet got all the way to Oregon uh Richard Flint in the 1930s was the guy that had the ice sheet furthest south and even he had it in the neighborhood of Cheney Washington uh but to me that's an important distinction between getting if you look at a modern Ice Age floods map you'll have the ice sheet north of Spokane and never getting to Spokane Washington and so Brett's and a few others had an old again the key is okay let me say it this way I think I'm starting to think we need two maps to tell the Ice Age flood story and we've only had one map to this point from my point of view and if you only have one map to tell the Ice Age flood story then everything's happening at the same time there's glacial Lake Columbia there's the ice there's the forming of the coolies there's Dry Falls being moved 13 miles north from Soap Lake and everything else but the more I think about it and the more I read the new work by all these folks there's an older map telling an older story that we need and then there's a newer map telling a newer story the two chapters that I was talking about so what does the old map look like I think it should I'm starting to wonder if the old chapter map should have the ice sheet south of Spokane the ice sheet should be down to the uh Withrow No it should be uh at the northern head of Moses Cooley and I'm wondering out loud and in an email chain with some of these geologists Brett says every channeled scabland in red in his 1928 map going right up to the old ice margin and he's got that channel going I'm getting excited now he's got that Ice Age flood carve Channel where Basalt is being excavated he's got that going right up to where the ice Edge was and just by doing that by having a channel go right up on a map now I'm making a t but you're looking at a map North is to the top here's the ice sheet here's the ice and here's a channel coming right away from it here's another Channel coming right away from it so here's Cheney Palouse going right up to the ice margin this is a million years ago let's say or 120 000 years ago whatever it's older than 20 000 years ago let's have each of these channels going right up to the ice margin says Brits well what is he saying without actually writing it out I guess what's he saying the water's coming out from underneath the eyes I guess I need to go back and read every sentence that Brett's ever wrote and say in his text does he have her say in the 1920s this has to be a subglacial story I think in 1925 Bretz went up to British Columbia to look for this source of water that must have been created underneath the ice and you're like well that's because he didn't know about Missoula well I think I'm wondering what do I know I'm just a teacher but I'm starting to wonder if that Missoula story is the younger story breaking through the ice dam Glacier Lake Columbia there's all tremendous work done on that and dozens and dozens of floods and then tephras and and cosmogenic surface exposure dates in the boulders sure not saying that's all wrong but why can't that be just the younger chapter that's separate in time and space no it's just separate in time from what I think is the most exciting part of the chapter which is like these huge floods carving up all this rock that's the new thought for me that there's field evidence now to suggest and maybe as always Brett's was on this 100 years ago there's field evidence that says that the carving of the coolies is substantially older than bringing this water in late and just decorating things with the erratics and and slack water sediments and things of that nature I've been neglecting your questions let me scroll back uh don't recall a continental glaciation a million years ago or is this a local glaciation well that's something I need to do I'm always been Rusty on Marine isotope for Maurice Marine isotope six I can't even say the phrase properly uh is there a way I can learn about known Global ice advances I'm just picking the number million I'm not saying it literally I should do that I should come up with some some of the most major glacial advances worldwide start with that and if there's glacial advances worldwide and we know decent dates on those major advances worldwide younger than the most recent one of course sorry older than the most recent one of course if that's a known thing then let me start there instead of saying million maybe I'll say 120 000 hundred sixty thousand two hundred forty thousand whatever uh thanks for that let me I need to come to more of your stuff this is live is there a difference between ice sheet and Glacier can you explain uh there's Mountain glaciers that are following mountain valleys and then there are ice sheets that cover portions of content it's continental glaciers and we're talking about mostly an ice sheet story with this Ice Age flood stop uh Jerome uh Jeremy what if the younger story erased the older story well that for sure is true in many places yes even if so let's take the upper Grand Coulee again which I've been shocked so it's been kind of fun for me because the students and I have kind of stumbled into that older story just by looking at Brett's map and a few other things and we've been kind of going there ourselves and then the paper that they're reading for tomorrow the 2021 Richard Waite Brian Atwater Jim O'Connor and everybody else that paper that's waiting for you at the website they're saying it a bunch of times in print I had no idea that they were that bold I knew what I was going to say ah got it sorry when Jerome Lessman stayed at the house we were discussing all this every hour of the day and right before bed upstairs Jerome and I would have a little movie night and we put something on the TV we have our little bowls of ice cream and they were videos of course that I have done and we watched Brian Atwater at Steamboat Rock which I filmed two years ago about this time of the year with Brian Atwater and Atwater was in the upper Grand Coulee contributing to this new paper that the students are reading for tomorrow in fact the students for tomorrow have been assigned to watch that video take notes and discuss Atwater uh discussion with me on camera in the upper Grand Coulee at Steamboat Rock well when Jerome and I watched that thing and Jerome is thinking very differently than others about major parts of the Ice Age flood story we would pause every once in a while and Jerome and I would discuss what Atwater meant by that and Jerome would make some observations and then we'd play another three minutes and he's like well there it is he just talked about it so it was a thrill to see something that I'm doing just on this little YouTube channel and having some of the folks doing the research get something out of those conversations and atwater's so bright that you know just throw away comments you're like really thinking about that and like what does he mean by that that was the first time that Brian Atwater at Steamboat rock video was the first time on camera live with him where I had the thought directly from him that it's easiest just to visualize the upper Grand Coulee being totally carved open before the last glacial maximum and that ice sheet is simply flowing into a pre-formed upper Grand Coulee radical thought for me but not anymore since I've been toying with it for so long and the same is true for upper Grand Coulee I'm skipping down to live we're doing three more questions and we'll cut it off where did all the water from the ice sheet in the organ on Valley go good question Jim if you are unfamiliar with Canadian geography you assume all that melt water and the Okanagan lobe just went to the Pacific Ocean but as I've learned from British Columbia geologists there's a substantial amount of real estate north of the Border that naturally drains South so even if you don't want floods coming out from underneath the ice even if you don't want that you have to have some amount of water flowing across the border because that ice sheet isn't there anymore right so where did that water go I think that's what Jim's asking how much would clockwise rotation affect the possible older floods in their past thanks for the question uh there was this rotation of one degree every million years one degree around a 360 degree clock so with this Ice Age flood stuff we're talking about even though we're talking a million years ago it's still pretty young so there's only one degree of rotation so I don't think it's a much of a factor but thank you for the question uh is the upper Grand Coulee north of the Columbia River basalt uh no uh the upper Grand Coulee is carved into Columbia River basalt but at the very Northern portion of the upper Grand Coulee you're starting to get into very little Basalt and you're getting granite at the surface and much of that Granite was exposed by the carving of the German chocolate cake by the floods and once you get north of the Columbia River at Grand Coulee Dam then you're out of the basalts more or less scrolling back for two more this is fun how long ago did Continental move north enough to have glaciation uh thank you again we're pretty recent here so the latitude of North America during this time frame that we're talking about I mean I'm not saying we're going back to older glaciations I hope you understand I'm not talking about going back 250 million years ago that would be ridiculous to say that but we know that in the last 2.6 million years I need to clarify I guess I'm sorry I that's interesting has the Earth experienced major glaciations separated by hundreds of millions of years yes but what I'm saying in this program today and will continue when thinking about the Ice Age floods in the Pacific Northwest is that I'm wondering about if individual advances and Retreats within the most recent 2.6 million years that's the last glaciation yeah it gets confusing doesn't it last glacial maximum last glaciation Wisconsin and glaciation I was taught illinoisian and Kansan and Nebraskan all these terms even that would help kind of uh clear up some miscommunication so when I was saying I should go around globally and find the major advances of ice I meant in the last 2.6 million years to think of some other candidates for when we had ice in Washington in the last 2.6 million years one more How likely is it that something from outer space punctured the ice sheet I don't think it's impossible I don't think it's impossible but I'm you know why I'm pausing so there's a lot of momentum on YouTube with a story involving an extraterrestrial Rock hitting the ice sheet in Greenland and producing Ice Age floods and I don't know anything about Greenland I don't know anything about that impact but the known date of that impact I think is younger than 12 000 years ago again I don't know much about it but I do bristle at the fact that that impact and the younger driest discussion is brought here to the Pacific Northwest because there are thousands of years separating the dates that are carefully measured here in the Pacific Northwest in our Ice Age flood story and that story thousands of years off between those two stories okay down to live Mike battery's almost gone that's good to know and I appreciate you being with us of course I think these are going to be quick this one's almost an hour but we'll see if I you know what let me see if while I've got you here let me see if I can start my car just so you can if you're worried about me I don't think anybody is I'm the only guy worried about a dead battery with a hatch open but let's see if I can start the car hang on foreign no problem no problem worried about nothing as usual before I sign off I'll just try to give you a sense of the tripod that wasn't helpful today the starlink dish which was helpful today the bags of pinto beans which were not helpful because the Sun or the wind wasn't a problem that's enough rambling thanks everybody I hope you enjoy your day today and I will see you this Friday for sure for our last talk friday live stream involving Max needle and some interesting video game style simulations of field geology I don't really know what he's up to but he'll be speaking this Friday at noon Pacific time but in addition to that I have plans to do all sorts of programs in the first half of the summer at least with the Ice Age flood so if you have an interest to join me live or after the fact then keep an eye out for plenty of programs thank you I love you and goodbye from Ellensburg Washington University no I wanted to say goodbye from a parking lot at Central Washington University in Ellensburg Washington goodbye and stream

Channel: Nick Zentner

Views: 43,839

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Id: 0gp9KcDptvw

Length: 56min 27sec (3387 seconds)

Published: Mon May 29 2023