I COULDN'T REALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED

this video is brought to you by sporland quality integrity and tradition AC not working so I walk up condenser fan motors are running but it's cold air cold air blowing out of both of these and I don't hear compressors running that is typically the sign of a compressor lockout situation now this is a carrier package unit it's an older one probably around 2003 2004. and this one has compressor lockout boards I know that I'm very familiar with this equipment with the compressor lockout boards if you cycle power it resets lockout conditions in this situation the lockout boards they're looking for power to be interrupted to one of the safety switches low pressure high pressure or freeze thermostat if either one of those opens or closes or whatever it's supposed to not do right so low pressure if it opens high pressure if it opens actually if they all open free stat if it opens yeah if any of those opens then the lockout locks out that circus so you can lock out first stage and you can lock out second stage or you can do just one or the other so you never on these units want to come up and just shut off power because if you shut off power you can inadvertently reset a lockout condition and then it's just a little bit harder to find you know figured out sometimes they don't duplicate themselves right away so I always observe the unit we're going to open up the electrical panel confirm it's a lockout situation then we're going to troubleshoot from that point in the electrical section the fan motors are running the first thing I want to do is verify if we actually have three-phase power coming to the unit okay so what we're going to do right here put this guy right here and I'm going to go through and we're going to verify three-phase power line one to two 206. line one to three 207 line two to three 206. so we have three phase power coming in that means all the fuses are good disconnect is working but for some reason we're not energizing the compressors next thing is I want to find out if we potentially are off on compressor lockout okay so if you simply go from the X terminal on the low voltage wires to the common or C and you get 25 volts like I have right now that's indicating that we are in a lockout situation now there's no way to know which one is locked out but since both compressors well there is but both compressors are not running both compressors are locked out you could get in here and get onto the individual lockout boards and figure it out but they're both locked out now that could have been high pressure low pressure or freeze step so our next step is that we need to see if we have a call for cooling which we know we do because condenser fan motors are running but we'll just double check y1 25 volts Y2 6 volts so y1 and Y2 are calling for cooling and some reason we went off on lockout now the first thing I'm going to do before I put gauges on there is we're going to look at the belt in the blower assembly indoor blower motors running it's running in the right direction and that belt looks pretty darn tight so at this point we can go ahead and shut off the unit okay we'll shut it off and we can wait for the belt to slow down and we can test it to make sure that it's actually nice and tight a loose belt can cause a freeze thermostat issue um oh yeah belt's nice and snug pulley's in good shape it is a a48 ax48 that belt is in great shape I think we might have tightened this recently or something okay and we got a spare belt in there so that's good I'm gonna put this back on and we're gonna go ahead and gauge up on this guy and then turn it on now since I turned it off when I turn it on it's probably going to try to restart and hopefully duplicate whatever problem it was judging both condenser fan motors were running doesn't mean that one's not bad the condenser is trash like bad bad it's possible that it's dirty let's go and look at the filters too before we energize make sure they're not completely plugged up those filters are bad bad bad they were installed 130 23 those things are plugged so I mean you could kind of still see light through them but yeah that's not good so for now temporarily I'm going to pull the filters out for troubleshooting purposes I'm gonna have someone bring filters because I have someone available right now [Music] evaporator is not too too dirty couple little chunkers on there I'll get them off and then we'll put it back together and gauge up on it waiting for my tablet to power up we need to profile the system on measure quick this particular carrier package unit if you come over here it's a 48 HJ david008 that 8 represents the tonnage it's actually a seven and a half ton um for whatever reason on the carriers whenever you see that number it's usually a half ton or one ton lower than whatever the number is on most of the units so this is a seven and a half ton unit um so we'll get logged uh hooked up and everything and then we'll turn it back on and check all the stats all right we are probed up I kind of got my tablet set in the shade everything's on where it should be when I do liquid line temperature on this one because this one doesn't have liquid pressure ports make sure you get liquid line temp after the dryer so that way you can see if you have a plugged up dryer or anything anytime you're doing that you typically want to get it after the dryer actually no I screwed up I'm getting liquid line temp before the dryer see there I go run my mouth and then find out that I was stating information incorrect you want it over here so that way it's after the dryer and you want it right here so that way it's after the dryer there we go much better so now we have liquid line temperature after the dryer and we're ready to power it up I'm gonna have to get the panel and put it right here to kind of block things off um we can go ahead and turn on power probably will turn on we'll see there it goes it's running all right so we're in our system I have it set up for multi-stage so what we got to do is profile everything now so we're going to go into profile we're going to change it to a package unit we're going to say two circuits that's correct you're installed we don't really need to worry about that but I'll put 2003 um let's see tonnage so the unit itself nominal ton Edge this is going to be one compressor we're gonna do three and a half they don't allow you to do seven and a half ton or eight and a half ton or whatever wait what is it it's uh seven and a half ton so they don't allow you to do that so we're going to change it to the sear rating we're going to change the refrigerant for compressor one is going to be 407c dismiss and then we're going to change it to fixed orifice metering device now we're going to switch circuits [Music] circuit two we're going to change it to a three and a half ton so one's three and a half ones four if I did that right we're going to change it to fixed orifice done so now let's see here make sure that I did that right circuit two is set to three and a half ton and then switch it circuit one is set oh wait three and a half I think I'm missing it up circuit two circuit one oh we need to put one two four there you go so that's how we'll do it so compressor one is a four compressor two is a three and a half so let's go ahead and change compressor two to R22 and we are profiled and ready to go hit continue now I just need to put my probes on all right we are on and running it just started up first stage has a really low saturation temperature I tend to notice that with 407c especially with these units with fixed orifice metering devices that they start out low and then build up but let's keep watching let's scroll over to Second Stage see what that one looks like that one's looking a lot better okay so we're going to go back to first stage and we're just going to let the system operate for a little bit and see if it builds back up super Heats High sub cooling is not as high as I'd expect it it's about where I think it should be we're going to give it time to stabilize out notice that saturation temperature on the first stage low side is starting to come up so it takes a little while I've noticed on these fixed orifice metering devices for it to build that pressure up all right well I'm going to let it uh keep running for a bit longer to see if we see anything funky all right so this is interesting first stage now that it's stabilized out saturation temperatures about 36 degrees on the low side 103 I don't see any problems there super heat uh the target is eight degrees we're just a hair under that I don't see a problem with that sub cooling of 19 doesn't seem bad now that's normal to be high on this unit because it doesn't have a liquid line pressure port so um the pressure difference on these carrier package units typically from the condenser to the liquid pressure is typically about 35 PSI so someone out there can do the math this is discharge pressure 220 so if you subtract 35 from 220 more than likely that's going to be approximately your liquid pressure and then the saturation temp would drop a little bit which would mean we'd probably end up having a round if I had to guess 13 to 15 degrees sub cooling so it doesn't seem bad let's keep scrolling through outer air temperature is about 77 um temperature split is a little low at 16 but to be fair there's an economizer the damper's still open like I'm not getting a true air temp so um let's keep going second stage let's go back second stage superheat again it's calling for about eight degrees we're 5.8 that's not bad sub cooling's High though on Second Stage what's up with that I wonder if we have a dirty condenser I bet you it's dirty because this is a double Road split condenser hmm interesting interesting scrolling through what kind of it's calling for about 20 degrees TD right now yeah that's sub cooling on the second stage of 24 degrees that's interesting that's a little high for my liking for sure I'm thinking maybe we got a dirty condenser all right this guy's running a little high on the sub cooling on first and second stage so I suspect that we might have a dirty condenser it doesn't look I mean the horrible shape of it but it doesn't look super dirty but I suspect on the inside it's plugged up we have heat being pushed out of the condenser now so that's a good sign yeah we've had our first like little heat waves this last week it hit about 90 something degrees I bet you anything with the dirty filters and I bet you that condenser is a little dirty that it would probably went off on high pressure because I don't see again remember first and second stage went off on lockout oh wait a minute wait a minute I noticed something no first and second stage didn't necessarily no they did they both went off on lockout yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I had noticed something I don't know why but first and second stage are on the first y1 terminal now why it's doing that I don't know I don't necessarily want to correct it right now because I want to finish troubleshooting but I was thinking maybe that would affect the lockout but no not necessarily because power comes out of those and then goes into the lockout board so each individual lockout board still controls each compressor therefore what that's saying is that we would have had to break the low pressure on both compressors the high pressure on both compressors or the freeze stat on both compressors um in fact there's only one freestyle so now yeah there's only one freestyle on this unit which is also odd you would think there would be two huh I never really thought about that before but anyway so it has to be high pressure or low pressure the odds of it both compressors being low pressure aren't very likely because the pressures look decent right but high pressure is very possible because they're not doing routine maintenance right now I bet you we have a dirty condenser all right I'm gonna get to uh inspecting that normally I can take this off by myself because I don't have anybody else here yet I have someone coming here but because this one's all bent and folded up it doesn't like it's creasing and everything it doesn't want to lift off in one piece without folding in half so I had to shove a cinder block under there it's not ideal but it's on there um that'll hold it up it's actually not that dirty but it's a little dirty so we're gonna go ahead and clean it since we have it apart we'll do a chemical clean on it but it's not plugged solid or anything [Music] it's pretty dirty but I mean you can see through it I can see light through it but if you look down in here I mean there's a lot of lint and stuff so we're definitely gonna go get all my chemicals and we're gonna get this guy washed out [Music] I'm packed condensed floor cleaner you don't put any water in just a little bit of the cleaner and it doesn't take much because it's highly concentrated so that'll be more than enough cleaner to clean this unit all right we're going to wet down the entire condenser you want to have a nice like clean wet surface then apply the coil cleaner that we have tracks all the way down nice and smooth thank you all right now that it's wet we're gonna apply coil cleaner we're not going to go on the strongest concentration I'm gonna go on the B setting yeah maybe we'll go on the Seas well yeah we'll start on the B and see what that does we're gonna apply cleaner from all angles [Music] [Music] all right I cleaned it now it doesn't have to be like shiny silver because shiny silver means that you're eating the top layer of the coil off it just needs to be cleaned so water's flowing through inside and out last thing is we're going to rinse all this stuff down because once it dries it'll get sucked back up and get back in the condenser uh it's also you guys saw me rinsing from the front in a perfect world when you have time to split this you want to rinse to where you're going to drive the stuff out now of course you want to try to rinse from the inside out which I did for the inner coil but the outer coil you're not going to be able to split it enough so you just need to make sure you have it separated and then just push all the way through and make sure it goes down oftentimes if the outer coil is really dirty the stuff will get stuck on the inner coil so you've got to like double check and make sure that everything's good but I'm going to rinse the floor off real quick and then we're going to get this guy assembled and put back together and then troubleshoot it from there as best as possible I got the unit back and assembled condenser put back together I made sure to zip tie the two condensers together like you're supposed to um drains put back on cleared out the VAP got a quick little rinse I still got to put the condenser fan motor wires through so I'm going to pull those right now get them hooked back up to the condenser family to relay up here and then we're going to start this guy up as I'm hooking up the wires I decided to test the capacitors just to see these are 10 microfarad capacitors 9.93 that one's good 9.4 that's right on the edge of being low so we're going to change that capacitor the back one so let me go run down to my van and then we'll hook up the fan motors and hopefully start it up all right I hooked up the condenser fan motors I changed the back capacitor so we're good on that they're all back and mounted in there as best as possible um I went ahead and fixed the staging so and I verified because I jumped it out R to y1 the first stage compressor comes on R to Y2 and I move that blue wire down second stage compressor comes on so we know that's working I didn't want to do it earlier because I wanted to finish troubleshooting now we're going to let it run for a little bit but next thing I want to do is get an amp current or a current on uh both condenser fan motors 0.97 so if we can get on this other one that's interesting 1.3 why is it so high on one of them that's interesting so 1.3 and 0.97 now let's come over here and see what the current rating is on these guys uh this one it's hard to see I'm gonna have to get in here 1.42 so 1.42 those are both the same Motors is the allowed current and I believe we were under that right 0.94 yeah we're under current I don't know why the one is so low the blade is looking kind of funky maybe the blade is too low or something but anyways it's running I'm gonna let it stabilize out then we're gonna pull it measure quick and see what measure quick has to say now that I clean the condenser my system is running it has only been running for maybe five minutes so we need more time to let it stabilize out notice our saturation temperature on the low side is still below freezing like I said it takes a while for it to build up it also could have something I bet you we might have a slightly restricted fixed orifice metering device too but super Heats High we're going to give it a few minutes let's click over to the second stage second stage is looking really good already because it's still R22 something about 407c we struggle but okay I'm gonna let it stabilize out for a little bit longer it's been running for a little bit so now that we've cleaned the condenser and put everything back together what's interesting is where now it's also warmed up outside and the load on the building is normal now okay so let's scroll over outdoor 75 return air 72 so it's not a huge load on the building but we have something now okay if we look at first stage superheat is slightly high but sub cooling did not change it's slightly high 18 degrees first stage is also the one that takes a while when you start up so my conclusion is that we have a restricted fixed orifice metering device on first stage slightly restricted okay let's go over to Second Stage second stage give it a second we've got two degrees superheat okay and we have 26 degrees sub cooling notice that we're at the high end of the high pressure all right so I believe same thing we have slightly high sub cooling I think we're slightly restricted um on that fixed orifice metering device I also think that this condenser being that it's so damaged is also causing elevated head pressure and in here and you can't really straighten it out anymore it's just not making good contact so this unit is is really kind of dead it's really time for them to replace it but this particular customer likes quotes So what I'm going to quote is a condenser an evaporator evaporator drain pan because those things always break and the threads are never good and this one's kind of stripped out um we've already got a new compressor on second stage but I'm also going to quote for them to go ahead and put R22 back in that's that for I'm sorry first stage compressor because last summer we had nothing but problems with every unit we put 407c in on these fixed orifice metering devices so we're going to suggest going back to 22 on that first stage compressor new condenser new evaporator new dryers all that good stuff but I'm really going to push them for a new unit this whole thing is falling apart there's not really much more I can do today I never found an exact reason for it to go off on compressor lockout other than just going through the unit saying condenser is in bad shape condenser was a little dirty you know filters were plugged all that stuff so we got the unit up and running total current on the unit right now is about 26 amps each compressors supposed to run about 12 amps plus condenser fan motors that doesn't seem too bad if we look at minimum circuit amps on this guy that's at full load typically is about 38 amps so we're under on that so I don't think there's really anything wrong with any components in this right and the only thing that can really cause a compressor lockout would be high pressure low pressure or a compressor not running I mean we could have lost a phase it's hard to say what exactly happened but all that I know was the unit was dirty and it's just in horrible shape so we're going to give them a quote I'm going to really suggest they let me order a new unit for them because they really need to do that but you know I don't know what they're going to want to do this is all in their hands we'll let them make those decisions I'm going to quote it so that way if they do approve my quote you know I'm covering my butt right so condenser evaporator I mean I'd really like to quote that other compressor but it's running it's working so there's no need to but we are definitely converting the first one back to R22 because 407c like I said just isn't working for me other than that that's it I'm going to put the unit back together give the customer the keys and uh tell them to keep an eye on it this one is a pretty much done I mean you know I never found a reason for it to go off on lockout besides a bunch of little issues like it could have been high head pressure but I don't know you know the more I think about it it's like it was it wasn't running that high of head pressure before like maybe a little bit but not too bad um definitely you know the capacitor that was going bad I mean it's a possibility that caused an issue uh I don't think it went off on low pressure I don't know though you know maybe the manager came up and changed the belt maybe it had a bad belt I don't know you think if the manager would have came up and changed the belt they would have shut off the unit though and it would have reset a lockout so this is a mystery but you know when the customer isn't doing normal routine maintenance these service calls are like this you come out for a problem and you end up having to clean everything and then you get to diagnose the problem and this one I mean it was working once I reset the lockout condition so who knows but realistically they need to change this unit it's trashed I'm I'm getting quotes for a new unit right now and I'm hoping I can push them because we got to start getting some of these units changed out we have a lot and I mean a lot of R22 still out there I have more R22 package units than I have 410A package units uh you know and then we're already phasing out 410A now and you know coming out with a new thing what in a year or two uh they're gonna be coming out with another refrigerant replace 410 now so it's like we got to get these R22 Legacy units you know changed out when it's time I mean I still have a lot of properly operating equipment too so I guess you leave that running I mean you know it's you know we can find units now it's a little bit easier but still you know getting customers to approve changing you know doing a roof sweep here and changing six units like they're not going to do that but we can nickel and dime them and get them one at a time you know they'll they'll go for that every once in a while I should say but you know can't always have like the magic eight ball that says this is your problem you know you just gotta kind of Follow Your troubleshooting steps work your way through the problem in this situation I reset it and just went through and cleaned the unit up and everything else seemed to be working okay so I really appreciate you making it to the end of the video thank you so very much if you haven't already please check out my website hvacrvideos.com we have merchandise available on there soon soon not yet but soon we're gonna have the new flat bill hats they are not available yet but I have them it's just a matter of taking pictures and getting them updated onto the website so they will be there soon currently right now it's just my normal hats probably not for another week or so but the flat bill hats are a normal style hat but they do have a black underbill which was I was very um adamant about so that's cool because when you're at work your fingers don't get it dirty right now this is a snapback but what's cool about it is it's actually Flex fit so it stretches so it's a snapback but it's a flex fit so that's pretty cool now these new hats though again they're not available yet they will be soon they do not have the breathable material that my normal hat has my normal hat you can see light through the top but it's not a mesh trucker style hat this is a normal um you know just acrylic wool hat basically okay and then we are also going to have the dad caps which is a very relaxed it's not as deep up here it has a cotton little thing on the back uh these are at special requests from my buddy bill so those will be available again none of those are available yet but they will be soon so stay tuned but if you want to check out the other stuff that is available on my website hvacrvideos.com okay uh other ways to support the channel if you're interested in doing so truetechtools.com I have an affiliate code set up with them if you use my offer code big picture you'll get an eight percent discount on majority of the items on their website there's a few things it doesn't work on but majority of the items and then I get a small commission from that so that's truetechtools.com if you're also interested uh you can look in the show notes of this video and there's links to PayPal patreon and YouTube channel memberships which is all just a monthly commitment uh you know donating to the channel if you're interested in doing so but you know what I say this all the time the easiest way to support the channel is just watch the videos from beginning to end that's the simplest way okay I really really appreciate y'all remember to be kind to one another and I will catch you on the next one

Channel: HVACR VIDEOS

Views: 50,061

Keywords: I COULDN'T REALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED, air conditioner, air conditioning, HVACR VIDEOS, carrier package unit troubleshooting, carrier package unit wiring diagram, carrier package unit not heating, carrier package unit no heat, carrier package unit not cooling, carrier package unit blower motor, carrier package unit tonnage, carrier package unit thermostat wiring diagram, carrier package unit heat exchanger replacement, HURRY IT'S TOO HOT IN THE DINING ROOM

Id: gPnInDVhNAI

Length: 28min 55sec (1735 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 27 2023