you can now follow me in all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the Subscribe button and the notifications Bell so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live I've done 24 years now yeah cuz I went back for fours 18 and a half months just done there in the last three and a bit years I found this Reco as hard as the bleeding last sentence that's how bad I felt it I really felt it triple category a you checked every 20 minutes in your cell you spun twice well move celles twice a month they shouldn't have used they said I gripped a gun in a bag and that there is that gun was a MBG pump action and the deceased was killed with a MBG pump action it's all absolute bollocks to be quite blunt what you thinking when someone's put a h out in you in prison I hope it's I they giv them a few I was a bit pissed off cuz it went it's 50 Grand then went up to 100 then it went up to two I takeen him for a ride and I'll take him somewhere very dark okay and I'll tape him up spread eagle him to a tree read him his life history very [Music] quickly Bo we're on we're on Kev good to have you back brother good to be back first one massive views massive story Miss Carri D Justice you've got your book fitted up which will plug straight away you can get this on Amazon um great book like thank you I've read it twice yeah cuz it's a powerful and obviously your story as well like even as your youth grown up you know yourself you weren't clean cut you weren't a [ __ ] little angel but you involved and a case where you the angel of some people's eye you got I go for a mother he didn't come out you've got the book out fitted up like but you end up in prison again just a few months back like what happened so I got recalled I had uh problems with probation I moved and uh they kept moving me to different probation offices offices are driveing an hour away at two you on the motorway on the car like down at graves end and um you know car story short uh I didn't see I to ey of the probation officer but bearing in mind I'd had multiple probation officers not a single problem and I've been out bleeding years now okay hardly reporting staying where I want so on so forth and she come up with a load of problems about um I got arrested for common assault against my girlfriend at the time and as a result of that she wanted to know names and everything of the girls I was dating I said but my case I'm not a sex offender blah blah blah and objected and I objected the area manager but I said no problem so I was single and I was I just enjoying myself and being honest and dating a lot so prime example of is not getting on which will lead to what I'm going to tell you in a minute is that she said what give me the I said okay you said what who have you slept with at this month and I said okay and I red out a load of names right and she tore it up she said we start again next month don't mean that bragging but it been a very busy month and I was very lucky that month but that's what I had to deal with and I thought what that's an invasion on the on whoever I'm dating or seeing or been with that that month they in priv they in privacy so I started falling out of them then and um she recalled me for the common assault but I've been on bail for 6 months with a business no contact the person no threat severe uh uh provocation so on and so forth and she recalled me which I thought was unjust when I've been up for so long okay she could have said no you're going to put you on curve you got to be in you got to report once a week which could have been merely made my reporting restrictions severe so then um I got I got Rec I went to prison for that and I got out I had a tag and the tag was 40 they said it was 40 didn't fit it for two and a half days and I was out so so much for bleeding leading me on tag and the tag obvious reports where you are doesn't it so it reported I went into har forer three occasions I said we haven't for one their middle sex addresses with the bank the council and so on so forth still recall me kept me in four months four bloody months of my life again who could they have kept how long could they have kept you in for look at Co 14 and a half months I did I was sentenced to two months in prison all right and oh was that no we yeah and I got I did 14 and A2 months for common assault sh as common assault I'll kiss you I might be sexual have you got a A license hanging over your a life license yeah I've still got a life license and that dictates where I go I mean taking off the airplane by bading police and shite like that on the TAC um search on and off the planes taken aside really bad I've complained about that to customs and to my probation officer but he can't do nothing about it but nonetheless it's embarrassing when that happens um but the the convictions my Barrister became a judge Jin Nathan so I had to hand over to another bar I to find one and I've now talking to Dominic Thea who we wanted to do a podcast with you and discuss the legalities of uh stuff that's mentioned in my book and things that happened uh in relation to my Cod at the time being acquitted by the judge and conversations and such that went on with him in the police so we want to go live on that and then build some momentum go we go on Twitter and the legal professions obviously Dominic's a leading QC and see what the legal profession have to say about what we have to have said in my book and then we're going to mount the appeal with off the back of the panel program uh last chance for justice um with Mark Daly um and Trac Alexandra they conducted some Lis sha they conducted some tests and said that it was wrong what the police said and it should never have said it so we're going back to court criminal Cas review Commission on that how long have you been in prison all in uh I've done 24 years now yeah cuz I went back for four eight and a half months just done there in the last three and a bit years what's the longest you've been out Kev uh longest I was out was I I come out um January the 15th 2015 and I got recalled February the 6th 2019 so 4 and a half years see every years see every time you go back does it get harder or do you just become immune to it it the second time when I got recalled so that was difficult because I knew it was unjust and there's far worse people should be recalled for what happened that evening I don't think I should have been even charged I think that the other person should have been charge criminal damage to my vehicle and such and provocation taken into account and the condition of that person on the evening I was sober but so I went back and I my business and and then Co I had to sell my car had a nice Range Rover fully loaded sport uh that hurt cuz i' always wanted one then your funding you've got responsibilities for children or wages in your office rents so the car went I lost 10 grand on that the business obviously stopped about to come out start a new business again um which just you know i' have had the 4 and a half years beond me in the business I was doing and having to set another one up how hard has that been in prison for a crime you didn't do like your whole life you've been fighting to overturn this conviction like how hard is that I found this Reco as hard as the bleeding last sentence that's how bad I felt it I really felt it I have to tell you and trying to do bird when you're doing bird I I got my head around it very quickly and I said what this is my life I've got I live in now this is my home so I've got to make it the best I can and that's what I did and uh it was frustrating with the obstacles that are put in your path for obtaining information contacting people people replying to you via your letters I should do I do some 20 a day cuz I had a laptop in there and that and just fire the Letters Out change the heading change the structure of it depending on what department or certain issues in there and that takes time and then nice to get that out so you meet a lot of obstacles like that you're stonewalled all the time on Do You Think You Can Be Your Own Worst Enemy sometimes though with been stubborn yeah no I think stubborn has got me through if I hadn't been so stubborn and had the fight in me I'd have given in because believe me I can understand why people take their lives in prison they just get worn down constant drip wears the stone and people suffering there emotionally heart AE losses relationship splits injustices just terrible what some of the sentences that people get for the crimes that when you look into the the details and how they the police say put these cases forward so you suffer a lot in there a lot of suffering and I I got to tell you it was a for me there's times when if I weren't so stubborn and strong I would have turn to drugs and when a less a man I would have come out the man I am did you ever contemplate suicide yeah yeah D I [ __ ] frighten the life out of them once I said I'll [ __ ] show you look all right and when I got a load of tets and took them I told him I said I'll show you a lot took the tablets I was in the special secure unit at the time triple category a and for all those people that say there isn't triple category a no such thing honestly there is just look it up on the government websites It exists and most people there's a lot of people in England who know it exists so I was in there at the time and it just opened after the Escape I just split up with a [ __ ] old woman I fighting with a Muffy and all sorts like that I thought yeah you've banged me up here this is the prime example of what you're talking to it's relevant so when you see I [ __ ] mine was anger yeah you've put me in here it's a miscarriage of justice so I'll bring attention to this miscarriage of Justice right W up with like Wayne Owen parine he's dead now and I love way the bits right God Rest his soul I don't believe in God but whoever's listening right he's proper fellow way and he used to get loads of medication I see got [ __ ] can save some tablets up and what he did was right I took the tablets you see you took them sleepers and 35 anded din I think and load of sleepers but eight sleepers well a lot to kill kill I don't think but anyway went be the door he's coming the door and he's going you took him T you I've took him [ __ ] right so we had a coup right this was the crew I said well I'll take the tablets and we're going to frighten the life out of these [ __ ] now cuz I'm going to go over I say so get me let me after an hour be on the door or say get on the door so I think he's taking a Lo tablets right and he did it right it fighten a life out had to go to the home office secretary Secretary of State and all sorts remember a governor he come to me Brody Clark he got done for the PO the passport scandal with Theresa mayate I like Brody Clark gentleman I found him very respectful and he says to me when I've been in there for he said Kevin he said just hold down a bit longer he goes cuz uh you coming up R you your Triple A and he said they can't build any more units and I can't send you anywhere he said they couldn't handle what I was liking there cuz it was just when it kicked off they had to shut down the whole prison the old prison everyone behind your door if you're on a phone call you going on a visit cuz I'm open now open so we kick off kick off at times when they're doing stuff it calls M digress it there may that's why us were all [ __ ] tripa then yeah listen it got me off the [ __ ] out the unit I telling you cuz it had bad press it said it's inhumane uh sanctions not sanctions but said um who was it who did it can't remember it was now but it was said it was inhumane the guardian reported on at the Times prison home office Minister the senior medical officer he he wrote about it so they didn't need any bad press but you know I took tablets then um that's the only time I've done it and I haven't F about taking my life I've been often thought is this what is this what I'm living for to have the the constant heartache or trauma or that when I went up for the the CCRC and I was told that in writing that if they didn't think there was some Prospect of referring my case they' have shot it by now 21 days later they they shut the case right and they are blows when the copper gets nicked in your case and he's been involved in your case right the way through it and all the other stuff and you think [ __ ] hell like one case has been squashed go have a look at mine bang right hander knockback bang right hander knock back again and then again you think what have you got to do yeah the hard thing is just getting knock back rejection knock back rejection is that when it comes to the mental state what you think what's the point I could die in here definitely so but what I used to hold on to was the Birmingham four the bridge bridgew five bridgew 3 U is it bridgew 3 or five I know three yeah you Brian Robin I met him he got on the land in the fell Bridgewater 3 but you got the Guilford 4 and all those like and they had like five appeals some of them before they finally got let out and Grave miscarriages of justice and that's what I hold on to I think well look eventually it's a process where I've just got to keep wearing them down wearing them down keep getting the information out there for people to consider and then eventually get the right hand which the Panorama is the right hand for me now it's a game changer what no Jin aan said what was the triple cat League what sort of prisoners were in there I different you I was in there I can't mention the names but uh I can Matthew Williams was in there with me and he escaped out of park very clever kid he could he threatened to poison um Manchester City Council when he impregnate a fly which a poison the water system got seven life sentences for that he sent a letter bomb to a couple of kids who mugged him at uh college or you your college yeah know it's straight go and he just well I'll [ __ ] show you he used his brain but he's now a f he's a artist doing really well um he was in there Wayne har was in there there there's a fell in there that he's dead now he's no longer there he w a very uh nice character at all he was an Informer recognized inform forer I knocked him spark out there I landed there put him asleep for 5 minutes I I went over him and said no I told him anything that said that record straight but so yeah was alive one my first day into the unit but triple category a you checked every 20 minutes in your cell you spun twice well move celles twice a month you put in a sterile cell and they pack all your kitten and put your cell in there in the cell you're going to be in um and that's without the other searches that go on the security searches it's very very intense Focus like a I've said it before a Nazi camp you looked at there'd be a screen over there and behind there there' be psychologist writing notes on you monitoring you in the strip Cale that I used to spend a lot of time in they call it a box and I've said this there was a parit wall where people could walk around and observe you while you're in there so it's a very very severe security yeah it sounds like torture though like even if you were see even for people who were guilty even that being in there alone would [ __ ] them up up here do you know what I mean never mind fighting for your freedom KN you're in there something you didn't do but you're in there getting tortured basically strips chin cells your m not going out your male going missing all the time I had to send every single letter to post and and recorded delivery £1 saying you cost me a letter depending on the parcel a for or for sending out folders and such and DVDs of news bulletins and all stuff like that comes a lot of money and if you're not getting out and you're posting them right that's a and then I involve the post office but it's a constant battle where you've got to communicate to the post office by a letter again and wait for responses and it's just a long very drawn out system that there's security security security it's right run by security it's not run by a governor security is the go they rule the governor simple as that what was the MU they like cuz I know people they some people say they kill people they come in with the riot gear B clavas is that true yeah yeah uh so John seers he was next to me in the unit okay John might mind be mentioning his name and they're making a film about John and the family um think they've made it with Steve reef is he but either way sorry about that so he was next to me and the math did come in on me what they come in for me now I'm not sure if it's a time where I got on the bell and told him to go and get K it up no I said to him two boxes in the ring I said when two box in the ring the bell goes off he went yeah I said two box the bell's just gone off going and get kitted up so they've gone off and I had a te up with him and they're dressing all black white kit and their bloody like the body armor and the boots and the helmets and the Shields and that gloves get this they got the cies out and they come in on the many of times like that and you're just trading with them but the idea is to get you into a corner by using Force by they come in didn't they but I had un knocked the shield man out once done his jaw and nothing all sorts of bits and pieces and I was quite successful fighting with them but believe me I mean the ey got split my eye closed that closed right up that was a a c you I can't put me arm right back up here cuz they ripped all my ligaments once when I getting wrapped up that was on camera and then camera got destroyed all in the units so the violence with the muy is but believe me I'm prar to say that and any police prison officer out there that's been involved in that marketing with me and I was discussing this the other day what they had with me is was that I would tell them to go and get kitted up cuz I want to fight you because you've taken [ __ ] Liberty different big different kettle of fish than than them coming in on someone and that person thinking [ __ ] hell you know they might be angry but they're fighting cuz they're frightened not wanting to get at the muy there's a big difference there and that tells them something that when that door's opening I'm coming for you and I'm [ __ ] going to get stuck into you you you better be bleeding ready cuz you're going to have a good workout better than you've done in the gym were you still getting to use the gym in that Kevin train cuz I know you've done boxing for years were you yeah you still getting to do that in Triple A yeah they had a gym in there designated area you could go to at certain times like you can't stand in this bit here cuz it's closed off where they serve food step on it you get nicked you stand right again [ __ ] like that you know [ __ ] off but that one of the fellas I told you I knocked out there I don't want to see always violent but you in an intense place where it's run on violence you must get that into your head everything's do it or we wrap you up simple as that there's no negotiation you don't go to like a prison in Argentina they do four years training to be a prison officer we do six or seven weeks here completely different you know it's why does have to be violence why they have to spray pepper in your cell to come and wrap you up when they could just spray a sleeping gas and put to sleep and you wake up a bit calmer and what's the money in it it's got to be I don't know the cost but either way the system's all wrong and um what did you ask what was you talking about there sorry I've lost myself there this fell so in the gym and I have F out with this fell the same fell he wanted to use the weight bar so listen you've used it we would have a g it me and another fell way I one actually so happened they got belted and uh they come running over like I say they come sprinting over to the unit all right load of them and I thought you're not wrapping me up today so I picked up a weight 20K weight stood head like that they came in like the [ __ ] Buffalo H like stampeding seeing me with this white buff me head they went like the Keystone Cops in their feet break oh yeah yeah going to wrap me up are you [ __ ] hell I put a away down Kevin you put a away down but I'm walking put away down that was it walk to the block but I had to use that method to defend myself I hadn't hit any of them so why do they want to wrap me up did you ever think you were getting wrapped up they could have killed you yeah yeah yeah yeah I was told they were going to kill me he said we kill you one screw said to me I mean yeah take the Cuffs off we talk about it I knocked him spark out that [ __ ] when the Cuffs come off but he was threatening me actually big bodybuilder was there many people in prison I know majority of people say oh we're innocent and this but there many people you had discussions with that were fitted up yeah pet to fitted up who was you Bry lad uh he's doing life of murder over here 33 years and when he went to Spain for a murder over there it's Cod did all they don't have pii like secret information and they just give it to him as Cody just went the other way blamed him for everything as a sign of witness he's doing the bird for it and there's people like that you know it's just sad things there's other not just to miscarriage the Justice I mean there's a good few cases in there b in a way but it does happen I mean the criminal cases review commission the court of appeal accept that they make mistakes and there are people in prison the police accept that so there is a percentage just by their own mitigation mhm but you see these people just fter the Wayside just give up in life do you see a lot of suicide done there Kev yeah I've I've seen some suicides I was running with a very dear friend of mine the day before he took his life and I sent something was wrong with him and I asked him he was he very strong character you had 16 months left and um that's very sad I seen others as well others I've got a friend at the moment called Robbie Highlands he's just been released from prison before Christmas he's got one on Tik Tok it's on there right fit up and F back have a look or the Instagram so he got released from prison he's riddled with aggressive prostate cancer one step at a time on a Zimmer frame slowly dumped in hospital he's got to have an emergency operation he's had that now and they're going to give him a prognosis with his cancer they cut his tag off him so that's how Le is he's just got out of prison like that they left him in hospital nothing no one's visited him no Cher clothes no toothbrush nothing and I drove all the way to Wakefield last week to see him bang come out of London I went out there and that's how they leave you I've seen people die in prison had all these bells cut away and I put a nappage in his cell put sorry putting his dinner in his cell on the table and shutting the door I asked the door to be open I went gar it's all [ __ ] on the floor nappies with [ __ ] you couldn't get out bed food with mold on them two weeks he'd been in there that's no word of a lie I mean I ended up caring for him when he died Lazarus God Rest his soul turned to Islam but he was a loner real loner uh but he wasn't um he was Jamaican and got that and he died I took care of him very sad and yeah when do you see people breaking the most is it at the start of the sentence middle or the end because I know a lot of people get out they've done a big sentence they do something St it just to get back in they become so institutionalized when did you see the breaks in people start end people always suffer at the beginning if they're new to it even if they're not when I got recall you can see [ __ ] like a lot of time they just chewing everyone's ears telling him a story that's what you see um some of it to get to get bring some attention to what happened to me it was such a travesty I'm in the compensation at the minute we're discussing with the home office because they said they imprisoned me wrongfully so you've got to try and get that out some form so it becomes through discussion and letters but you see a lot of people the beginning have that frustration or the [ __ ] dread of my God I'm B dark L is where I am in here and then they get used to the routine and the way of life and they make a few friends and they settle and you see them change but I see people break normally when family things happen if there old woman leaves them or if the sentences are just far too long you got nothing to look forward to if you have nothing to look forward to what does it give you to hold on to [ __ ] all who can you look forward to something but if you're doing over 20 years like how does people keep going like you say without the break without showing the screws that you're struggling or breaking because that's the last thing you want to ever show them but how does people then get through like because you have seen the strongest people become the weakest and the weakest people you thought he's not making it and become the strongest like what's the main ingredient to then get through something so long keep fit use gym don't become C TI sitting you sell you in there enough anyway get out otherwise you just become you just I say cell right but you're just living in a Cell nothing TV smoking or whatever they want to do so keep yourself fit try to educate yourself so I got Sports uh distinction in Sports Nutrition nurition took me four years studying some a lot of people do degrees um and try to use your time to make it happy in there what you play an instrument find something to do cuz you got a lot of time to do so you better find something where you get enjoyment out of which is good therapy for you I had a Budgy so I was living with another object uh mammal in the cell that was great company cuz you interact with him my Budgy used to fuing eat when he was eating was going when I was eating it was going nice nice and when he was eating he would go no it's nice too right so I did it and I got drunk a lot or I did get drunk a lot they got me through it great parties I used to have good parties dancing thinking you as the absolute bollocks but I've been drinking me lately I was on it last night who I couldn't stand up I still drink it I brew 100 bottles right for an evening for K as you know right and people going nuts for it still now so I've got to do another batch so I used to drink that and luckily the visits and uh the stubbornness I'm not going to let you bastards get away with this so the reality of the situation is that I did bring the the English government to a negotiating table because they said you're never going to be released in 2010 they should admit your guilt do the offend and behavior courses but then there some paperwork work uh was sent to my solicitor and that it caused me to be released and an appeal um Lord chief justice rfy stepped in on my appeal and she shouldn't have done she was my Prosecutor's friend and was sitting at his at his hospit when he passed away and they sat at the CIS of trust where trainy Bowsers get funding and helped during their training she stepped in the my pill she's never going overturn it was she my case was his best case he ever had so I got turned down on that and now we got the C IC the Panorama one coming up how many pris you been in can tell you forgot no I had 18 moves in four years um the first four years bouncing me about in and out of the units lay down 28 day lay down uh C off perod for stuff like that strange really because I was always I was calm I wasn't going there angry things had happened in the prisons I was in I got sent on the 28 day lay down once for using too much force to defend myself it's Two Fellas thought that's bit harsh spent a bit near 3 weeks in the block for that and then 28 day laid down then came back yeah it's all punishment as you can see I don't know is it character building but it is in some ways how can you release that is that a stress on your mind every day the pain the kind of flashbacks that do you constantly think about that even though you're trying to move on your life you're trying to create a bigger business now you're trying to do well you're you're everywhere social media your books out like you're doing positive things but how hard is it to not to let go of the past that was something I was very very bad at in in terms of he just down to Courtesy conversation or something might say saying or a look on that and I think [ __ ] eating my head I'd be selft talking all the time so I had years and years of that in prison and the again concentrate where Stone and it it could have gone either way with me but I think with working on the case using the brain all the time instead of being a vegetable watching TV and such in a Cell I didn't ad tell did I so us to work I feel that it got me through it the the uh I've lost myself again there um yeah try to forget the past yeah so I stopped holding holding on to things because I was in prison and I couldn't do nothing you just got to accept things out of your control and then a number of things happened during me during my sentence the loss of a life and things like that and I think you just become you're not so sharp and stubborn in some areas like that you just think is it worth it prison taught me that some things are just not worth the egg you got to let things go get rid of that ruag put it up on the shelf and park it up I therapy for two years when I came home and I've had it successfully on and off for the years I've been out and I think I like it I go there sit and touch someone they give you different options of looking at things definitely help me you think that's what's kept you out even though you've been a couple of times here and there but you think that's what's kept you kind of saying yeah no I believe it's helped but recognizing that if you hold on to things that are anger filled you become a bitter person and I'm not a bitter person I like to have fun and have a laugh um so the aggression side of stuff is prison related and okay it's still in me I accept that but first and foremost I'd like to be happy and not have things going around in my head that causes me to feel stressed or unhappy so get rid of them and and I'm pretty trying to control them thoughts unless you know sometimes you can be heavily engulfed in stuff you're consumed in it aren't you because of whatever's going on I some right uh Road crushes these last few weeks last two months more so two weeks ago been days just like bang bang bang bang you think [ __ ] how much more can you take how did you make your prison hch so I worked out a system that I thought I used do was demo rare with sugar and uh because didn't have bleach in it and so I K get the F fruit juice kick that off and I used one cup of that per 2 lers I dilute that into a bit of hot water so it' break down quicker and cook better um wouldn't put the restart into the uh liquid it's this is hot but mean need I put that into the orange juice in a bucket or bottles and make sure it was tiid and then I'd put the re start into that mix it up wrap it up keep it warm constantly as much as you could I used to take proper care of them I'd get up in the morning do them get them in the sink before the doors open you got to get rid of the smell I was up at half 6 in the mornings so 6 in mornings and all and then uh lunchtimes early Association before that bang up and again in the evening all night on the pipes so I could cook a brew in 4 days just burn all the sugar off for a good yeast I'll tell you what that's good stuff oh I've had some people drink that a proper drinkers I said go that's good get it maybe that's what was [ __ ] all we your heads in there I remember so I was in B somebody made his which I've not [ __ ] felt right since man I near went blind us I genuinely he' made it with potato skins I think yeast I I don't think he had a [ __ ] clue what he was doing you got to watch what he drinking or some of them stuff but make a nice drink I mean people in buy my drink so that says itself and they it's it's a warm Brandy warm coge goes but you've got the sweetness of the orange juice and then the shock of the alcohol where it warms your throat and you go Goose Pim so that's just and it's got a good body to it the clarity it's clear and I strain it I settle it and I put finishing ingredients in it and such like that now and I am going to go and look at it at some point about going into production because it's such a strong drink and it's cheap how have you enjoyed all the attention kind of with your book out all the the podcast you've done even the podcast you done me very popular but how have you enjoy it especially if you've been in prison for so long and then because it's a weird energy now with social media and attention like how have you handled it I've done quite a bit of filming um I'm actually talking again now to someone who's a script writer we just check about the book but that's happened a few times with production companies and such and I'm still in talk to them so the filming side of it is really good I enjoy it first and foremost I actually enjoy the company of the production teams I find that when I go there it's quite exciting the topics are um good I enjoy doing them um and I come away from it and just stay focused on my work because this can come and go tomorrow so I enjoy it as like a night out and that is it um and hopefully brings awareness to my wrongful conviction at the same time and then if anything else comes if it then great it's just it's nice to be able to do it at this stage of my life from where I've come from to be able to afforded that opportunity to do so so I was locked up with an MP recently in prison in an old prison in shuby prism Victoria prism that's coming out that's been commissioned for a series but there stuff that is going to be shown on there that's going to just I say saying anything anyway right but I've really enjoyed that en I was locked up again but the company was really good the the person I was with the fellow I was with he's a serving MP and uh it's quite unique so that side of things I really enjoy but I've been in some situations where something happened at another documentary company I was with and they said something about well look Sam got I said well I'm not bothered about the film I said I'll just leave I'm all right thank you I said appreciate it but I'll just leave they said oh no no that's okay that's okay it's all right and it was something simple a request that I had a friend with me Kenny Collins hat and garden he came with me he just goes to a lot of places with me but they didn't want no guests to be brought or or be able to wait and it was in Mayfair in the 10 million pound house I said well he's 82 I'll go with him then he said not he stay so in the same breath it hasn't got well I will do anything and Chase it like that I enjoy what I do the people that are filming me the minute saying it's great filming so they're very happy with it and may it continue and some good come of it for myself and a lot of other people yeah good on you let's talk about your case Kev that is there any chance it's going to go in your favor and everything get overturned and get your yeah they Ed some evidence that they shouldn't have used they said I gripped a gun in a bag and that that it's that gun was a mosberg pump action and the deceased was killed with a mosburg pump action it all absolute bollocks to be quite blunt and Trac Alexandra for City Westminster police conducted that review for Mark Daly of Panorama and Louis shortia the innocent projects and found it to be absolute rubbish is what they said now if you imagine if you in a jury and you've been told that I've gripped a gun blah blah blah and there been forensic register you found it's had a used gun or ammunition in there it's quite damning isn't it yeah well that's why I got found guilty as well as a wealth of other material in that book and there's no black order on that book and um stuff in it has never been asked to be taken out or any issues legally from police or the people that have mentioned in there because it's all factual and the people that do read it and I'm talking about right across the board here whether they be politicians journalists and such they just say how can this country still have such travesties where people are corrupt and the systems are being bent in order to get to satisfy it's the canteen culture isn't it um you got the CPS you got the criminal justice system they're all in it together to the police uh they' you know it is the canteen culture and that book highlights it and It embarrasses them really in the in today's society they can still get away of sending you to prison for something you haven't done there was two of you ches that and one got out yeah one got out he's nailed back in for another contract killing and that person I've been spoken about CU they've been complaining about saying I'm in danger in their lives well the books out all right by mentioning them on there and things like that but those people are flying through the system really are getting everything you could ever want um but once I go up from my appeal we' be asking questions about confidential chats that took place in the number of prisons and information that was given that was used against me by my codefendant that was kept without my knowledge so there's going to be a lot of questions asked about that and this is why we want to do the a podcast with youw of Dominic theza anything I think that'd be really good and we discussed the illegalities of that and uh other issues that uh right to the the point and it's factual because it's documented so um doing a podcast with you and Dominic and then making our application to uh the CCRC as well as I'm actually talking in about uh a documentary so I have a collaboration with myself and another documentary company or one about me um and it' be the book CU I've been told that the book is a great skeleton for a documentary or film by many of people so if I if I do do uh a documentary on that it' be like Barry George or the Gilford 4 and stuff like that where the documentaries go out there and then it's right in the public eye and that there people are asking questions now right across the nation and it's they're almost corralled into a go out for a pill and it's in the public domain what's taking place so don't just brush it under the table because the public are watching you now and I feel that will regardless of the Panorama program I think so not regardless but regardless of the documentaries and that the Panorama program is so powerful and it's been proven that they shouldn't have used the evidence so that alone should squash my conviction in the meantime i' do the documentaries in support of that Barry George was that Joe Dand guy yeah good bastard man another particle [ __ ] one particle got him guilty yeah have you spoke to him yeah I see him down to church he was a bit you know he's [ __ ] photograph birds and things like that didn't he that but I should talk to him and he's slow but he knows what he's talking about to quite a large degree he's discussing the forensic issues with me I was talking to him about he he was using and uh stuff to do with the police investigation and stuff that you know we had common interest there but he always sat on his own which is Handy for me cuz I wouldn't have gone to sat with a [ __ ] nonsense who used to come down there at church as well wankers I us to S had a chat of him but not sit with him all service go and sit with him at the end and have chat of him in the T and know but let talk to him M you it's a network of people isn't it have got information in relation to the criminal justice system yeah some always know something that you don't you know what I mean like see because he was in for killing a woman was he not getting terrorized in there no people thought he was a miscar of justice so there some people they need to get Terr but that pertains to the crimes they in there for what was it like being set cases in that [ __ ] I would with any of them no but in churching that when they were down and cuz I used to work in the gym Bing and he used to they were always down I think it was eho they used to come down first thing in the morning had to give them [ __ ] shots and yeah it's [ __ ] horrible I jimly myself like you and I to growl them [ __ ] wankers I hit some once but so well protected in there I'll tell you something about Peter falls and such they stick together there was two rapists there was about 18 and a half Stone 20 stone these to two Fells and they raped three 14year old girls and left them for Dead all right anyway I was Jim orley and uh had a rail of them in the showers these Two Fellas bit volatile then and other pedophiles come running in their raid all got it stuck in I'll tell you what I was a bit lucky that day but thought me something then Christ they they stick together that lot hated it like just couldn't bear being around them and being in there [ __ ] you know they come and use the gym but in Franklin was good CU they had their own gym we didn't have to mix with them they had their own gym ories that's what they started doing but in R and places like that I was gym orley and to start mixing with him but I was going through the system then so um just blinkers but it's a Vibe it's a cold you know think a cold A vibe with them or the old men like the beers are kind of had to you just look at them they look [ __ ] weird yeah they are they pray on the the weak the vulnerable people are far weaker and vulnerable than them and they're doing the most disgusting things to them what does that say about the mindset yeah it's going and they wanted to do integration with us and then in the Wise magazine in [ __ ] in other prisons and I was trying to inte great so it cuts down on cost to visit rooms movements all the time more screws all things like that and I would have it I said I'm not having no pedi living next door to me and uh you put my letters on my bed and then he comes in looks at the picture and said oh nice pictures and then you lets go missing and you find out he's a [ __ ] rapist stalker or you know peeping Tom or something whatever so it's not it's not right and I might have said I told you I think may have before but in conversation I went to a concert and I was invited there thought strange there no tickets and the biger give me a ticket so I thought I'll come it's nice of him and the psychologist come and ask me what I thought about integration I told her I just told you and I sat down at this bleeding concert it was packed in the church I looked around I'm sitting with some people wellknown people prison done big time and I looked up at the [ __ ] B and one of them was involved in torturing war vs across Europe for the savings polish War veterans he was polish getting into him wrapping them up with his gang of fellas and I chased him off the wing he he landed next door to me and I said You [ __ ] better be off this Wing when this door opens mate or you're going to get it and uh he went I looked up and he was the only one that that you could have it didn't look weird you know the others look weird pedophile weird so we be race relations that's what that was race relations they called that coner I stood up I said this is bacon relations and we should be bashing them not clapping him I'm leaving God's going get him out get him out I said I'm [ __ ] leaving I'm wor about that went so yeah I don't think it'll work you have more deaths they had five deaths in uh 2011 in the high security State people being killed God knows what'll happen if you start mixing PFI was looking grenon only he had two down there the last 10 or 15 years must be hard for people to go to grenon cuz no razor Smith's a good friend of mes and notorious bank robber went to gr and changed his life but they're sitting in a room Circle full of [ __ ] nonsense and they've got to share stories like it must be hard for people to really try to change their life to then bite their lip to not attack them Terry Ellis's book doing bird time with a beast I always wondered what they go over there and I've got Pals who have done timing now right but I've never discussed it with them and then Terry articul sets out the [ __ ] you got to part with if you're showing them a fence you can be chucked out of there hostile you got to sit and talk to them and if you don't sit and talk to them that goes against you it's a marker so they're forcing you to sit with people have done the most despicable disgusting crimes to children and women and all sorts of other people and you got to talk to that people and not show that you are disgusted with him well what are they saying then you got to act and be full but you shouldn't have to act and be fool should you you should be transparent and honest that's so I don't like you he's a [ __ ] Predator a beast and I don't agree with what he does but you're saying I've got to agree with what he does and be nice to him well you wouldn't be nice to him outside of you I'm sure you wouldn't and that's what they're forcing people to do I think it's disgusting that tortures you when you come home like my P was in he said Kevin [ __ ] honestly 7 years my mate was in there right s years and he says Kevin I can tell you the things that go through my head stories I had to listen to yeah but I think that would do more damage to someone listening to those horror stories and seeing how bad and evil the world is even though some of them have robed Banks and kill people but to be sitting here and anybody that has kids or loves kids like knows how hard that is to even [ __ ] fath what goes through their mind what they do you know what I mean to never mind see it in real life what they've actually done is have to sit there and accept that that's difficult but that how can you that's why I've always questioned people who went to gring as well but I've never I can't understand how they can I know they're trying to change it and I get that but I still can't justify how if somebody's talking about killing kids and raping kids and doing all the mad [ __ ] that they've done let seral [ __ ] PR and they have to sit there and as if to say ah not well done but just [ __ ] it's just I can't understand that they have to sit there and talk to them about their crimes and try and find rationale of it really rationel not so much rationale but a reason why they did it the problem behind it all right they you just [ __ ] in the head what you do is not right you do not function like we function because that it can't be right what you do to to some of these kids and stuff that goes on I'm lost with that just it's not right and I just I've been in that Gaff they stuck me in gendon when I've had an minor occurrence in Spring Hill when I was in there at a Decat finishing off center for kidnapping how you do oh well you know it's in the book anyway be fair right and uh screw was under under investigation and then he threatened me so I punch your [ __ ] face in I said you talking to me he yeah so went I I put my dinner down I my [ __ ] bang left [ __ ] bang right crack I've gone and grabbed his head and put it in the [ __ ] in the soup the carry it was a car went w right and then jumped up on the thing anyway I got sent over to grenan and you're talking about the people in there there was blocks in there were like tooth dribbling and had like a little uh alcatra prison that's what it made me feel like in there Dark Cells dark lighting and they got their faces at the the doors and that's where they put me for the night in there and then Su me back under cell confinement after that but I see some of the people these people ain't here on treatment these are being contained or in prison they been they've been held here because they're mentally unstable why was the informant in triaa why was he not in protection cuz he tried to escape out of Dar prison with uh Davy Fields they smuggled a daringer gun into prison and he he informed on Davey that he had the gun they was in the block and they searched Davey three times and they didn't third time they found it on him had up his wrecked him and [ __ ] strapped his BS but they put mirror on anyway uh his Escape classification meant he had to go in there gun smuggled into prison but he got got a deal he did other things and we handed keys to he was a block cleaner years ago if he was a block cleaner he was definitely no good it was always the other people doing it pedophiles and grasses and such um and my pal give him a set of keys and a Marvel tin sealed said there's a set of fres in there he had no option right he he's in the block he got caught on the fence in Long L the ladder broke and he had the keys so he said give this cine to such and such with a cman and give it back to excuse my French there you won't hear me say that very often I apologize to any ladies are listening but um he want to give the keys to his Handler which was a a PO a principal officer handed the keys over yeah so he's he was working his ticket all the way through and every unit needs a grass get information out of people get close to them talking about the cases and that fellow in my books done that exactly that now people have cut him off he's just go a great P knots in the system and I was told by the ra boys he said every unit got go goass Kevin now anyway after the Skype is that just kind of if you're in there for a long time getting to know somebody befriending somebody and you kind of tell them things that you shouldn't and they'd have bought it back it's what people do but uh if anybody ever question me I us to go into the principal's office and so I want it written down that I've been asked something about my case on it on record protect yourself yep yep straight away or tell my list straight away you must have been miss some mad bastards C who's who's let you think to yourself he's he could turn it any minute Dave Bieber who is he he's nuts he must have said that but you just been done I think he just he tried to cut a woman's screws head off in long line he shot the police officers in leads then he was A Yank American David is and uh I got home with him and he was he was asked to [ __ ] kill me um he was off with a few quit and he come and told me and then he said like Kev said you're last blow [ __ ] thank you very much he is the UND dangerous bastard like he looks at you and when he's looking at you you just know he's he's thinking things that you know you wish he weren't thinking but he was dangerous him him and then waren SL very dangerous individual who is he he's uh miscarriage Justice got fit up by his codefendant he's done for 30 odd years now he's like Charlie Bronson type um but he gets things in his head and very very and he will be very violent I feel for him because the system's done that to him system would have done that to me see what happen was if you were Rebel you stand up and fight the system like I did if I'd have been on the mainstream prison system I'd have gone into the mainstream blocks and been that have been a reception committee waiting for me because I've just had an allocation with a member of Staff or muy whatever caused some damage to them so I would get some damage down in the block but then that means then I would have come back at them CU that's the where I am and then I would have gone around the prison system from block to block to block like the war slers Charlie Bronson and many more people and become a product of the system because they were using violence in the first instance that caused the violence because I was in the special security unit I had to go into the block unit in the unit cuz it was contained in the wall with its own fences wasn't it that means I had to see the same staff cuz the staff had to be clear to work in the unit so it' always be the same stuff unless it would the D went off to come over for that reason and I say any of you take any liberties with me I'm going to get first one I can get I'm going to get as soon as I get a chance so there was no more violence I didn't come back at my violence because I hadn't done anything further to what we just had the rail over otherwise I would have been the same as them I believe what you thinking when someone put a hat out on you in prison I hope it's I think give them a few griid I was a bit pissed off cuz it went it's 50 Grand then went up to 100 then it went up to two and that was then it's been like to M me put a blade in the eye or oil me and then then kill me uh but I walk them Landings the same Lings in the same place for years after people three people come and talk me there asked to kill me and this has been a discussion recently on on Sky News that the police have called for the Osman warnings to be abolished because one I'm being told and I'm being told who's asking for it to be done because they want um me silent um about what I say about my book um and that the police are saying they waste of resources I've been having them for years and now Wherever I Go is publicized I go to events later in the evening hundreds a year I've been hundreds since I've been out definitely hundreds thousands coule of thousand i' say um publicized want to do my uh charity work it'd be easy to kill me so easy if someone was going to wanted to kill me because there's so many opportunities for them and I've been getting his now for 20 years and the police are saying it could be a case of someone gobbing off pissed coked out their headed also life threats of course I don't I don't discount that all but um Sky News reported on that fact and it's I think it's a waste of resources what I say is this that the police have to be told first of all that there has been a threat against that person's life and they've got their sources haven't they police Crime Stoppers formers so why don't they go and see the person that is issuing these hits especially for instance if they was in prison and saying right your pression ain't going through prison cuz our intelligent shows If you're trying to have someone weighed in and you're already in here for contract killing by way of example but I don't and we're saying this absolute waste at all is that your character though that people have actually been offered money 50 Grand 100 Grand 200 Grand to take your life but they've actually come up and told you look we've been offered this yeah I think so I was proud of that that they said we like Kevin you're good bloke well you know so we don't any trouble in case you find out that we've been asked to kill you and we ain't come and told you I thought that's very decent of them all all right because they have uh I mean they've stabbed and done a lot of things to a lot of people these these three individuals I mean tried to cut a prison offers head off come on God's sake so yeah my character Looking Back Now I think so yeah I like to have a good laugh I mean good pal my n conam he's asked a question about me at my evening with Kenny Collins and that and he said his wife his girlfriend actually Le said um what's Kevin like in prison and she said every time he stepped out of that cell he was smiling every day I mean could you get the occasion where you might prob but overall yeah and and now I think that's a testament to my character what's the worst thing you've seen in prison K the worst thing I've seen in prison g a Ben over didn't look very clever it was F standing behind him a look worse you go into a sell and see that mate I think that's [ __ ] you me vience no but that is pretty [ __ ] sick like there was a kid I was only for a few on was a kid in as well they were dubbed up together and in the mornings we used to ground and get collected like the plates or whatever and H and the [ __ ] two CTS were cuddling in the top bunk well I'll tell you what right but that's all yours is obviously was oh well I mean look the do's only wed up when they're at it but [ __ ] I've got gay friends in there I like you know [ __ ] decent fellas from in terms of done their bird I didn't bother that one right and uh their sexual prevence isn't so anyway I've walked in and they're [ __ ] at it banging away I thought was [ __ ] disgusting oh stunk spell the [ __ ] oh it's horrible uh I've [Music] um you say the worst things I mean look at Lazar dying in that sell I just that would never leave me that the vi side of things course it's so much of it it's just where you start I mean terrible things he falling off from oil slashing and stabbing it yeah yeah seem a lot but mainly the oiling where people get oiled up and you see just their face change there and then like a Batman film you know just [ __ ] terrible disfigurement and screams oh that I thought God I I don't get oiled up I mean so it happens so often down there now in these prisons us to be hot water but now they make this bleeding Napal boil oil or melt plastic and put batteries in it and sling that in your face yeah used to be water and sugar there yeah yeah I try to look back on my prison system on my prison time and think I seem to be holding on to more when I'm just when I'm out and such and they just come to me with times that I've had and I said yesterday I said I had some of the funniest times in prison Christmas crying my laughter cuz men people are very resourceful and if you think about some of the crimes that people do or the effort they got to put into getting out putting it together or so asked to BR and I Nick my mate gr Bailey gr was gay right but he was a quite old man didn't borrow no one I was going to have a drink with him [ __ ] right nice conversation all right [ __ ] me and we killed a gay go I think he tried on something like that anyway I think but lovely fell so he used to get me the pipes the oxygen pipes out the fish tanks cuz he used to look after the fish and I us to put the pipes out of my booze into another bow and then filter it for the smell I me genius but I've had some great times in prison you have to wa the best of your situation don't you what you thinking when you see two two friends of were shagging in the S yeah but it goes on so much in there like you people you would know of but uh it goes on so much they have like uh prison husbands didn't they the jail gear thing jail yeah jail thing that but if I ever get banged up again for a long time which I please God hope never happens when I'm saying please God I don't believe in him but figure of speech I'm going to get myself a pair of tits and I'm going over the women's nck you can [ __ ] do that [ __ ] I want to be a woman I want to be known as Christine I'm getting over there cuz there's so many now going over there and they just give you a pill to stop me getting an hard on get a pair of tits and I want to be a woman and I'm getting over it today mhm and I'll be cuddling women be doing that then never cuddled Mania like but I thought going to cudd a woman when does it ever end for you Kev that's been it is still a mad life for people maybe not seen the first one like watch this first and then come back like how's it been like what do you think like when you cuz I know you man I love you but you're you're a mad bastard I'm not going to lie like your characteristics are you're a mad bastard but also a good guy and you you've always phoned me and said look you identif or whatever You' be there in a heartbeat and I don't ever doubt that but how do you look back in your life and think [ __ ] me like what a raide it's only just beginning but what do you think I said this the other day literally you're wrting on things I've been discussing I was saying [ __ ] H when I look back over my life what I was like so I dived off of a balcony in a club on to the dance floor when I was 18 I was work on the doors and they kicked off and there's all loads of people come to the area for tear up and this disco Pub up until 12 disco club when the Disco started uh you know all the modern music started coming out on the the screens and that you know MTV and all that right but they had a proper DJ Flor they kicked off in there about 50 fellas fighting massive pair up and you couldn't see the dance floor from B tearing up so I got a can of Cs gas dived off of the [ __ ] balcony right into a bang flatten all these BLS literally shoulder shoulder fighting right I stood up and just turned them CS gas just turning around spraying it got them all out the club gone out and and that was in the paper and I'm thinking [ __ ] hell why did I do that I didn't really need to do that stop fighting might have been a a long long winded way but I used to do Dar things like that and I think I have done things that have maybe put me where I am today in how people receive me but in the same time I've had some fantastic times a long lot of it spent in prison as a Young Man growing up being the character I am and the people that I seem to associate with and mix me are all obviously real decent people and I'm proud of that real decent people so I might be a bit crazy I might be a bit wild I might not a good time but very kind and I mix with kind people so so far the ride I'm on it happened for a reason and I went to prison for a reason and that reason may be now this is my calling the TVs and such and the charity work I do and obviously my home my company module manufacturing limited I've designed a home that of gal and I still and I can provide a home say a two-bedroom Barn 44 ft by 21 ft for £15,000 delivered TurnKey beautiful black barn and I've also taken that house and I've had a structure designed super structure on Wheels to carry it about to move it if I want if it isn't built out foundations so that gives millions of people options in this country now under what's called portable and temporary accommodation where you can wheel the house in on Wheels I can take the wheels off and load down onto a foundation again that's another option but it's things like that that I'm enjoying now in my life that is another ride it's been very very hard and difficult believe me like hemr your money setting it up and stuff like that and things going wrong but I w't be here now doing this would I be doing that if I hadn't gone to prison would I be dead if I hadn't gone so I tried to think on the here and now and the positives and enjoy what I'm doing even though sometimes it can be real car crash recently I mean very difficult situations down to importation and using a company from turkey that Transport company was bogus not bogus but a bit Cowboy charging you more than they should have done and wasting 12 and a half ground on transport we could have saved and and other stuff learning curbs about I give you a prime example so we had uh design this product that came over and we had to wait for my partner in Turkey to come over um his visas was declined we had to pay £3,000 to get his visas approved cuz we unwrapping our first homes so you want to be here when we do it that took three weeks and a lot of money in the meantime the meadow where the home was where it was dropped off and delivered was wrapped in this super tarp hle in all Fick stuff all the way around it on the roof and everything for some reason they didn't put the the tin sheet on top protection just to transport it the Birds broke all crows pecked all holes all the sceners come through during Christmas coming up November in the snow we had to get all the walls rip it all down take it apart and do it again when it's come over brand new so you had to strip it down the frame and put it all again that's hard when you're ill for two weeks right up till Christmas the cost you've got to find for that but although these are the the problems I've had the last few days seeing the house it's finished and put together you think all of that is worth it cuz I've to design a beautiful home that is going to help millions of people out I've got a little white house picket house for one bedroom 45 M squared £1,000 delivered to your turnkey gin they beautiful and I was in them yesterday warm no heating on it's blistering outside we put one heater on the whole gap's warmed up so would I be doing all of this now if I hadn't gone to prison who knows will we doing the TV that no I don't think so see because you're free now can you even though you're still can you still enjoy it because you know how good it has been fore but with the years you've missed or do are you still better no I'm not better when I got banged up a couple uh with in sh be doing this filming and we down to Bear Necessities we had no water for the sanitation and such we buckets and no electric for Kettle and cold no eating it's all grimy cell just got on with it and I realized I was poting about and uh wasn't moaning about it just um you appreciate things in and you realize how easily you can revert back to well what I've got to do to take care of myself in here now in terms of food preparation things I need even down to putting coat HS up on a wall made out of match sticks just get get on get on done with it where some of us think [ __ ] we're going to put a coat oh [ __ ] no no that's the problem ain't the problem this is what I'm used to doing this is the life I lead now and it made me realize where I've been and where I am now where I want to get to I mean that is only thing I ever took out of the courses where I am now where I want to be well [ __ ] I don't want to be back in prison I Want to Be Free leading a good life and doing good with the money that hopefully I'm going to earn for a lot of people as well as provide homes for people that can't get beautiful homes they're mortgageable as well if they come out of the foundations mortgageable house I sell you a house for £125,000 mortgageable go and buy a bit of land with permission on it you've got a cheap house so yeah I'm really happy with what do sales P but yeah good that's is what it's all about how can people get involved for people watching us maybe you know what that sounds good how can it get involved have a look at the module manufacturing limited website or Instagram page um that's just not finished yet cuz we're launching this month we've got a number of products on there as well as a website in Turkey for homes that we build massive homes palatial no money um and they build out there with they build in a way that we we building over we should be building over it putting houses up in no well they are now in many ways but I put a house up in s and a half days how long did these houses last they marable no like structure wise like obviously houses are about in bricks and me like they'll last for 100 years 200 years yeah look around the London see still buildings Galvin I steel buildings or still buildings or Bridges and British Rail stuff still standing there over 100 years old so it won't be Mortgage in need if they weren't going to be there for the next generation and after that um that makes me focus when I do these I've done these homes it makes me focus on what good there is for me left in life still to go forward and do and that's it's an enjoyment that I'd like to do if you find something you enjoy you never have to work another day in your life do you and the faces the smiles I see on people's faces when they they've seen my homes like wow getting Alie Bess he's uh he's seen the product and Peter furries and so on and so forth and I've discussed this before it's took me a year to do from being released from prison and I've sold everything I've borrowed I've been lent money of arm pels I'm ow money by the way by a fellow called Andrew George uh and uh he owes me £245,000 I was wonder about the borrow money from uh property investment I went into in Turkey bought me out he's now banged up so that caused me problems when I got no money for that and I'm about to go and get money as well I sold my car you know I sold that so that hurt me and then I nearly thought about pouring the watch the other month seriously because the cost was just coming in for um all sorts of things with the damage to the property that hurs but for all of that I'd still rather be out here with those problem problems then locked up in them [ __ ] holes watching the sadness and depravity going on around The Landings and the violence and and the deceitfulness that goes on in them gffs [ __ ] deceit backstabbing [ __ ] lot of it I'd rather be out here yeah that's the thing you break it all down you're still out like you'd rather have these problems than have the problems of being inside like you got to keep yourself busy C just to kind of stay focused and not think about the past as much uh I've always been a very busy man I'm I just have trouble going to sleep at night just stand there thinking like a lot of people but I breathe now do breathing exercises and such but um um no really I've just always been a busy person uh proactive when you're busy and you get a lot more done I L to be busy and being locked up in the cells was hard for me when I first went away because I us to walk back and forward I I hadn't worked out a structure of keeping myself busy part from working on the case and such but I didn't have a laptop for the first few years of it I had a olivetti one and stuff like that but just getting set up getting into the U routine of prison life MH we have cases well okay would you never just I know it's hard now because you've came so far but would you ever just forget about it just to put closure to it to and just concentrate fully on your future no never what that book does it's not just primarily about my conviction if you look at in the hole that book shows that the criminal justice system is in a [ __ ] State still and it's still corrupt and they should be doing something about it more importantly why isn't someone from the criminal justice forward come for until actually looking at the book we're going to conduct an investigation and we're going to come back here here but they don't you you won't see that in England they don't like apologizing to people where they when they're wrong even when they overturn their convictions so I'm bugger if I'm going to go away and let them do what they didn't to did to me when I when I won't no I'll never do it give get my conviction overturned I'll stand on the court of appeal steps and I so I told you so I'm a free man now all right let's go to the pop and have a drink and I'm going to get on with my life I had the system has completely [ __ ] I had a woman on just yesterday was it yesterday Steph yesterday s Sarah Sans an old man sitting at a shop 77 ended up befriending her and abusing three of her sons she went around with her Blade killed him she get three and a half years the system then doubled her sentence because she said it was too lenient she near get C over seven years disgusting so you go some countries they see that as a crime of passion right or like Spain you kill someone you can pay their family off give them some readies you know they might have killed the husband who's a bread winner you have to you know they look upon it a bit differently but that travesty there to that lady just I don't think we're very jonian in England aren't we our laws and such and ruthless yeah ruthless I uh but so as America man some of them are done 100 years 200 years 300 years it's [ __ ] nuts we're going like America though you not think that yeah in glaso used to be 15 years from done now people are getting 35 recks 40 recks but what they do in Scotland is if you ad your guilt halfway through or do the offending Behavior courses MH they progress start progressing you to go home yeah you get you get your home leaves and stuff but they start sending through the system because they said that is you're doing the courses you don't have to admit your guilt but you you're doing the courses whereas in England I say you admit your guilt I was very lucky where I did the offending behavor I did certain courses in the end that I didn't have to discuss my face we took a judicial review my list and won it said if he reduces his risk to society by in the in the prison whether it's working in the gym it's got to be security cleared for that it's an Escape risk if you're in there because you got you you know all the rest of it go through the wall of a bleeding was trolley whatever I would I I wanted to go to Scotland for that reason and see my family out there and they they would hand me over the English said you're not going to Scotland you're not going back there you're staying here at Sur time give you day of you here didn't it did you ever think about us get do you know what I had a way out okay and I spoke to a p of mine over the phone the other day about it okay so I knew it' be useless for me children say your kids need a kidney or something and their ill or something so Escape was no option for me although they had me that classification because I would always be tied to my children and if they need me I would be there that's the sacrifice I made not escaping but I could have got out yeah and I had a way to get out and it was I told someone and I told one person in 2011 i' had it years when I was being moved out of the prison system into a lower category when I was being downgraded because of this paperwork that my solicitor received and it was a long area is between the workshops I can tell you about it now because I told this person and I said i' look I'm telling you now I said I've told him he's doing a long time anyway [ __ ] hour in no time at all mate that area was shut off they put helicopter wire so you had the workshops and from the workshop to the walkways when you come down it that be fenced off right and the walkways would be there and that was wide enough there to get 7 and 1/2 ton LW you get a jug KN down there it was that wide it was about 150 200 M long Michel like straight down straight off no problem and I told my power I said that's where you can go if you want been there for years they take off no problem them things just L down and go off again and the fellow I told he threw it in yeah and now he's going through the system but my mate I was discussing with him the other day I said remember that yeah said yeah so anyway I had somewhere and uh I never looked into it I just thought that is a way out um and there's no screws there so they fly over that the [ __ ] fly all around the place and the didn't I so yeah where do you go with your life now Kev I know you're busy with the projects that you're doing but what's the plans for the future PA star I can get you into that I've interviewed [ __ ] loads of them [ __ ] hell like and I ain't cheap so I went to a porn star um uh thing in um it was in spe rhino in London Christmas the show Christmas show then I took my partner from Turkey he come over his Muslim right so I got two of the birds the dancers and I said take him out the back there I said take all your clothes off and dance for him [ __ ] hell like he didn't know e my partner he's like Muslim Muslim but he was smiling the biggest grein he had on his face so um I don't know what I'm going to do anyway I'm just going to count on doing what I'm doing I want to get these HS out and I want to get the conviction overturned uh continue seeing my uh myself go forward in positive way um and enjoy life I love film to be done without M and there's been a lot of talk about that from a lot of people um getting the conviction overturned and then that would get me that'll be a film straight away regardless but um I feel things like it's like a I'm nerding the breadit a minute all right I'm nurturing it or nerding it really do anyway so we're getting there and I think that it can it's going to go that way the business will be successful I'm you know working hard enough for it you wouldn't believe the conviction gets squashed and I just retired somewhere a little bit more quiet away from people and I stayed that respectably and I like to be on my own in terms of I don't like to live in buil up perod CU I've been surrounded by people for years in big houses like sardines uh and and just car with my charity work um and anything else and if I've got some money I wanted to leave something behind in the place where I GRE up in hairfield buy something that can be used by the community but it can only be used by the community and the profit stays with the community uh something like that you know something that benefits the kids cuz I had a youth club when we was in there and I don't think there's so many of them now but something a bit more modern times where the kids can go there and learn something in terms of a skill or something you know so I'd like to do something like it pleased God they're all dreams in they you got to have dreams in you yeah of course what's your restrictions you've got in your life care can you travel or I can't leave I can't go to Scotland um I've got a family member up there who's ill at a minute and I can't go there without permission so I've got to get permission um can't go into Harford share I can drive through it um if I break down I've got to call the police and all that stuff uh people abusing my position in terms of a lifer they dang without that recall phone the police tell him you threat of me you just the fell that owed me money he's just been banged up for for fraud ripping people off all right and he owes me money for our say the properties I can't go around his house and knock on his door aggressively I've been at his house he went there spoke to his wife and said you need to know this is what he's doing on mobile money please and he's not making any payments and that's why I'm here cuz he's offering payments he's but nothing's ever coming so but because of my conviction I can't go around there in a manner that he could rep I'm glad they had ringtone on the door which was that gave me the backup I needed as well video it what I had to say you owe me money but I would rather deal with him in a far more aggressive way when it comes to this because you unfortunately violence will work in place of negotiation here CU this is just a [ __ ] you job because of my conviction and police can't help you but I may have to be a case where I finally go to the police cuz he's threatening to have me Nick to I come near him so what do you do they difficult times when you owed a lot of money you know you need that Bloody money so things like that cause me problems you know what would people think if I have to go to the police with my Cas and say listen I've got stuff here where the GE has pull some Strokes blatantly pull some Strokes he's now in prison for fraud he's [ __ ] me he's not giving me my money back and he's threatening to have me Nick to go and see him what would you do and I'm it's two years now and I'm waiting for my money other people's money that he's hien is that the hard thing K when you're trying to go legit knowing how dangerous you can be and what you've done to then somebody try to p a fast one on you I'll take him away no problem he'd get straight in my motor in the boot he'd be in the boot of my car and I'd frighten the life out of him if I didn't hurt him I'll take him for a ride and I'll take him somewhere very dark okay and I'll tape him up spread eagle him to a tree read him his life history very quickly in a manner of speaking that he could be seriously injured if things if I wanted him to be if I was like that anymore but he would pay me and I see uh mafio fellas talking about how to get people to pay he said you need three me mean [ __ ] who don't give a [ __ ] and they will come and hurt you or they will hurt you or they're going to Urt you and you will pay but if you don't have that people will just go see you later so violence does work when it comes to making people pay and if you use the courts of the land people haven't got the money to do that or the police are against them anyway if I threatened someone I'd be straight in that police station being questioned it it's just to be be have someone giving it to me by using the police and then morally for me to go and do that now goes against the grain but the start is changed maybe I have to use the tools now that he's using on me is he using your Leaf LC against you yeah see that's the thing my my a good friend of mine has M he says he had a gun and he had to do another five years disgraceful you lead my life now I do like worrying about [ __ ] doing this doing that don't go there because you got to avoid problems with the police you don't get in any trouble would't go to a March in London peaceful protest and end up getting wrapped up what old bill because I've been pushed forward into him cuz I can't go back you know protesting deal to climate change or something I can't go there there's many restrictions I have on me in my life how I lead it who I mix with which is a good thing um that that imposes a little bit of the puts the breaks on you I'm not so blaz where I go now or anywhere like um I wouldn't go somewhere a real rough house I mean I ended up in a Satan slaves Clubhouse in the Black Hills in dunde I just went out on my own one night ended up there and uh would I do that in hell no cuz I'm a little bit uh calmer now before I'd throw would throw caution to the wind it was exciting yeah know let's getting there so that keeps me out of a bit of trouble did I tell you the thing about what the the angel said to me when I was up there so I was taking a as a kidy come out I start taking him right so I've ended up in this Clubhouse they got speakers as big as a door and they're broad Scottish accent you know and music and I can't understand what he's [ __ ] saying cousins were pissed and stop talking right so I look like imagine what I look like H you I was 20 21 something like that driving a new I was old like 25 26 I driving a B nice BMW uh Dressed in all R gear you know and he's shouting s to me and I he said I thought he says to me do you want a pill I went yeah he said to me are you old Bill he's F get out get outside get outside he say to me you [ __ ] old Bill said you chy pel and I thought he said you want a pill then yeah up there so with them sort of incidents you know anyway give me a pill and I went back in but I'm condoning the the [ __ ] [ __ ] they are today I'd imagine but not like the old days M bushies Mr bushes Dennis Min rubar and custers you know one and you're [ __ ] going all night I'm really happy but the restrictions place things on me like that so that's a good thing yeah do you miss the old Kev I miss the old Kev where people take Liberties I want you don't trade on my toes I want to stamp on yours but if you're taking a liberty and you're treading on my toad I'm going to have to come and stamp on yours you don't have to use violence I mean taking that fellow away and fighten the life out of him that tells him what could happen or could have happened but that is a kidnap holding someone uh uh forcibly all right using Force to imprison Force imprisonment you get nicked for that and you go to prison for it whereas I used to see that it's just a well having a word of him you go back back a few more years and you had the local you'd go see some in the local area and they' sort things out in the area like that like Community sort out you know so you got uh cin gun and Dave gun best best for best boy besby boys in nothingham they to police their state no burgies all that no car nicking they like 300 strong firm I I feel that they was able to to do stuff for the community that the police couldn't people could no else is were to get burgled by a load of [ __ ] skags or crackheads you know searching for nicking whatever they can get their hands on for gear the police can't protect everybody now they again socities getting into the state out of some areas where people will go to people in that area who are predominantly wellknown Violent Men who can take care of themselves to sort the you might get someone who's a real [ __ ] you know like you get a good iding and someone say couldn't have had a better person like a n i' say you with me right nasty bastard well sometimes these people need to be put in order because they're doing stuff inflicting hardships and pain and bullying and such on people in the area real nasty people and they might have done something where can be soort out a lot easier do you have any regrets Kev loads loads of regrets um there's things that I wish uh I hadn't done in my life there's things I wish I had done but I didn't um but if you hang on to those regrets in a manner where they eat you away or use those regrets to keep you doing the right that's what I do and hold on to them in the sense where remind yourself CU whe the pain they've caused you or pain you've caused someone else I'd rather I hadn't done that or caused that or been parted to it or or been subject to it myself yeah I hold on to them for the what reasons for anybody that's struggling in life maybe in prison what advice would you have for them in prison maybe if they're in prison I just struggle in general you've got to find yourself in general right it cost nothing to smile okay try and do one thing at a time one thing a day and Achieve one thing a day it's so if you're not getting out of bed then I'm tomorrow I'm going to make it I'm going to get out of bed tomorrow I'm going to go sit in the front room or sit in the garden if it's a nice day go a a fresh air for five or 10 minutes do one thing different that's positive whatever it is that you want to do different to what you're doing but you have to do that and then build on them positives and keep going forward what's all your social media links and that care for people want a message you drop your message talk about the book talk about your your stories like what what your links so you got fitted up and fighting back Instagram fitted up and fighting back Facebook Tik Tok if you want to learn how to make some Boos have a look at them right uh um Twitter I don't really use that but I'm going to start using that and because you get some good coverage on that especially with the Dominic duza podcast cuz that would be you know Twitter's probably I don't know if it's more the legal B it's more inclined to have people of that ilk on there I think maybe I don't know collectively um so yeah fit up and fighting back get on there and the books I mean I've sold but I've got to do another order of books books are flying out just for my website alone 685 books last year just from my website so that may not seem like a lot to some people but we've done as well as people walking cells and such there's a thousand books gone that's without Amazon that's without gardeners water stones online we send thousands of books a year now and the one family um that book done for the family and like you said I've read it back to back people sending there was some messages S three out of those 10 the other last month or so they said I've just got to pick up and meet it again straight away and I'm so I'm really proud of it yeah good on you you like to finish up on anything well like to finish up on right um sometimes when things are so difficult against you amongst All Odds I mean I've had real car crash has last since Christmas and before real car Crush uh probably while looks are tired um but there's people far worse off than me my mate Robbie Island on the Tik Tok have a look at that the Tik Tok pictures of him walking around and being in hospital and [ __ ] like that riddled with illnesses and things and I thought I was all done by and I went up to see him and laughing and jok so yeah there's someone worse off than you and just keep going forward and smile yeah Kev L always a pleasure mate I wish you all the best of the future and no doubt I'll see you in a few months for whatever else we've got planned lovely thank you very much cheers
