I Address Your OCD Questions Live!

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] so [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] hello everyone welcome to this broadcast i pray that what you receive here today will be a blessing to your life and your journey mark de jesus here gonna do some questions on the subject of ocd and all kinds of things related to ocd if you're not familiar with the battle of such obsession and compulsion we used to think of this as just a neat freak cleanliness kind of issue it expands a lot more into thought patterns that are disturbing and it leads to certain patterns and ways that we try to find peace and if you are new to this channel then i'll let me share with you that it's been a part of my healing journey in helping me to gain healing and freedom and understanding how ocd often works and it often gets very very tricky with christians because it infects their religious and faith-filled viewpoints and causes to get distorted down a lot of trails and pathways that are not helpful for their life in their journey so if you have not seen it and you have if you've submitted a question or you appreciate the help that i bring in this area then i highly encourage you to go to markdejesus.com i have created an entire resource page forward slash ocd help mark dejesus dot com forward slash ocd help in the beginning this used to be a link to sign up for an email list and i've now changed it to it's a resource page i spent months and months going over materials and if you have a struggle in battle in this area it is very important if i'm speaking in any way to your battle and journey i encourage you to go through all of it go through it multiple times because you'll listen to it one time and you'll get one thing out of it listen to it again you get something else out of it because many of the questions that come in i do address but they um they they are in inside many of the different pathways because one of the things i encourage big time in the healing journey is understanding the distortions that feed ocd this is very important when you are in your struggle these seven distortions are clocking through all seven of them at the same time and it involves perfectionism struggle with uncertainty you get a distorted meaning interpretation of your thoughts you overestimate the threat of them you have an inflated responsibility you have an intense need to control the thoughts and most of all you have difficulty with your emotions and how to even process them this is all happening at once and so there are some people who have what's called religious ocd scrupulosity i say some but it does seem like it's many that um what happens is the faith grid kind of takes over its ocd tendencies but the faith it points to the faith grid so you think you need to fix this theological thing and i got to make sure i do this thing and it's not you've become obsessive and it's now distorted the whole subject is distorted so i want to i want to do my best to address your questions i've got quite quite a bit here that are coming in ocd sufferers are notorious for writing long emails and it's funny because many of you write to me i will try to keep this short hilarious it's absolutely hilarious uh you number one you you have uh i'm gonna be up front with you though now the first part i'm obviously kidding although there's truth to it we feel with the need to get the story out but there is a very very big problem with ocd in all areas and that is we have to understand the problem is not the problem and what happens is we we have our obsession and when we get help from somebody we are only focused on the obsession so what happens is you if you for example you have some kind of confession thing where you're constantly asking for forgiveness for sins and you don't really need to be doing that but it's become an obsessive compulsive thing you go to somebody for help and all your focus is on should i should i should i repent of this should i repent to this and they're trying to maybe give you especially if they understand ocd they're giving you feedback of the big picture it's like you're not hearing it you're not hearing it and so that's the part that's going to be challenging for many is you have to hear the new pathway and you have to hear the new insight because your focused on what you think the problem is and that's not the issue it's deeper things that have to do with love unconditional love a lack of nurture in your life and some aspects in your in your upbringing and your faith grid that are preventing you there's a mixture of things that that infiltrate that cause your thinking to get distorted healing's available but you have to be teachable to get out of the fixation and that's that's really challenging and so i had to learn in my journey that the issue is not the issue even though i want to focus on that what's the right decision in this how do i treat this subject the right way and a lot of times it's not about that subject it's about those seven distortions that take you off track so if you solve quote unquote solve that subject you'll dive into another one and i one of the episodes i did that i i find it to be so incredibly important if you give me a second here to pull it up on the ocd help page um is there is hold on i want to there we go there is a right it's towards the bottom on the on the help page and i'll give you the name of it it's very very important it's um common ditches ocd sufferers fall into i really want to encourage you to get that and i want you to take in even the episodes of q and a's and stuff that you don't feel like apply to you and this is one of the problems with ocd is that i'll give an example let's say you have let's say you have a salvation ocd and i'm over here talking about relationship ocd you disconnect you go now that doesn't apply to me yes it does because the same problems facing somebody with relationship ocd are issues you need to be aware of too otherwise you'll just keep dismissing information if it doesn't fit the specific nuance and many many are in defense of their ocd patterns and so it becomes you become frustrated with your counselors you become frustrated with people who help you they become frustrated with you because you're you don't realize it but you're in defense you're loyal to whatever battle is there and there's some underlying reasons that have to do with love and your inability to receive love unconditional love is a very foreign subject for you you get lost in your head you've lived in your head as a protective mechanism for quite some time and god needs to do a reboot and he wants to bring healing and freedom to your life but it's going to take a journey and it's going to take some teachability so enough said of that i'll get into some of your questions we're going to chat today and we're going to see where this journey takes us okay so the first one i i kind of just again put him in a pile and address them as as we go and it makes it more fun that way the first one has to do with ocd and judgment okay i found your channel on youtube and knew the ocd trauma etc was definitely my story i'm extremely judgmental and it's obsessive i can be in church and be judging the whole service and even afterwards i have no friends don't even associate with anyone from church i'm also hard on myself how can i be free i would start with the place of you being hard on yourself so for for when when you have obsessive patterns you have to approach your thoughts differently ocd requires that you take on a different posture and how you deal with your thoughts you typically take the thought focus in on it try to fix it get lost in it and take it off track and you actually need a different approach than that and what happens is when we leave our ocd thought we often feel like it's wrong like it's wrong to leave this thought pattern and usually when you feel that you're actually headed in the right direction because it's not about solving the thought it's actually letting go of the whole narrative itself so we are we are kind if you want to be kinder and less judgmental to others start with what you cultivate towards yourself now if you're in a church service and a judgmental thought comes to you about somebody just let the thought float on by what i think happens to you is the judgmental thought comes and you go wow this is a mean thought how could i even have this thought so then you start hammering away at yourself from a very judgmental condemning perspective so take a different approach while you're standing in church you look at someone and you have a judgmental thought about them just let the thought pass on through gently just pass on through don't don't focus in on it don't give it more meaning don't try to investigate it does this mean that i have a judgmental spirit and i listen we all have judgmental areas of our lives but you're you're not going to get free by fixating on it and beating yourself up trust me people for centuries have tried that and they just get more and more frustrated so you want to be kinder to yourself it's okay i'm having this thought let it float on by you know what i'm going to redirect myself towards being compassionate to me and being compassionate towards them and i'm on a journey of learning that so i'm going to refocus my attention back and then you get stuck in the thought again and you refocus back and you're learning to gently you're moving from harsh criticism and pressure to a more gentle response in your approach and so loving yourself the way that god loves you is a very very helpful way of of um allowing yourself to be more kind and loving towards other people okay next question has to do with ocd salvation kind of stuff my life was the best it ever has been with jesus walking in his love and freedom now i don't remember what this question is about but i can already tell it's intense it my life with jesus was the best it's ever been and here we go we're gonna say i've crashed i've fallen something's happened here the enemy came against me first with terrible demonic dreams that i wasn't saved and then began attacking me saying that even though i experienced god's presence he has given up on me because god will okay sorry let me read this again that i wasn't saved and then began attacking me saying that even though i experienced god's presence he has given up on me but i don't understand the sentence because then it says because god will never leave me even if i wasn't saved so there's definitely some confusion on top of confusion for sure i immediately came under an attack of fear and a heaviness and severe pain in my heart and soul i studied the scriptures to see that the simple fact that jesus has never left me is proof enough that he hasn't forsaken me either now i'm gonna guess you looked up in the scriptures you saw jesus said i'll never leave you or forsake you but you're gonna continue to go down a journey i'm just guessing like i said i don't remember where this is going um [Music] however i'm now left with a heart soul that feels so painful broken and unresponsive to the flow of the holy spirit through my heart bringing me peace joy and love which i have been continuously continuously experiencing before this attack i am on effectsor um is that klonopin and seroquel to help me relax sleep and to increase my serotonin and dopamine my prayer is now that i would again experience the joy of salvation in my heart as i stand on the simple truth of the gospel have you experienced this or have any suggestions as i continue having done all to stand to stand well there's a couple factors that you have to be aware of too that being on the amount of medication that you're on too it's gonna there there are certain things that can affect your chemistry in many different ways you just have to be just aware of that to be kind to yourself in this journey but um it's it this let's start back at the beginning you had a terrible dream this is where nurture is so important if you have a terrible dream what we do in response to the dream we all have bad dreams all frightening dreams at times right we could say yes the enemies you know wanting to get involved in those dreams certainly right our response to those those kind of things requires nurture what does nurture say in those moments it's okay you're all right you're safe you're okay what that does is ground us many people get hyped up and like they try to fight the enemy now they're all in fight or flight and stress so i like to go back to the beginning of how this all started because then you feel this constant assault attacking well you're not saved and really what you have is is a broken heart that needs the love of god that needs a greater sense of his love and his grace in your life and so you say i want to experience the joy of salvation in my heart that's great god will lead you in a journey to experience that more but usually what happens is we we go through some valleys because we want joy but we don't know how to face pain and many times going through experiences of joy we often have to go through things and i find many people with ocd and again none of this that i'm sharing is meant to replace any mental health feedback that you're getting in your life and in your journey okay this is a brother from another mother just sharing with you so keep that in mind and i'm just reading what i'm reading on a page i don't know anyone you know personally and all this stuff so but it gives me good like places to talk and to share we want to experience joy but we don't know how to experience healing through the heartache and there's a heaviness here that we we could say has depression kind of aspects to it that you need to be able to go through some of that and and and get some healing and i find many ocd sufferers have an underlying depression underneath so even when they're like walking away from their thought patterns there's a heaviness and there's a low uh mood that they have and it's been there for a while because ocd suffers are notorious for being perfectionists and perfectionists often struggle with depression it's very hidden because they're under pressure all the time and that pressure wears them out wears them out so then what happens is you have your ocd you're you're working through it and then you have this feeling of heaviness and depression and then what happens is you interpret it remember i talk about interpretation number three the distorted meaning of your thoughts so you feel this heaviness and you give yourself a distorted diagnosis it must mean i'm not saved it must mean i'm not a good enough christian it must mean i need to repent no it maybe just means you're depressed you need to just let god walk you through it and walk with you through the journey because in it you'll learn you'll learn things about yourself you'll learn things about god that you weren't able to experience and learn before so anyways we'll go to the next one ocd this is um there's two parts to this that that that looks like one i believe gets into bible reading and then the um the second one gets like into theology kind of stuff i'm a frequent listener to your podcast and i've read some of your resources in particular addressing ocd religious groupilocity which i've been diagnosed with specifically when i first heard the gospel at a young age i did respond to it to receive christ however it produced an incessant fear in me that has continued to this day where i incessantly doubt my salvation and always feel like god has not accepted me or i haven't accepted him and is distant so what i what i want to bring out here is you said i did respond to receive christ however it produced a fear no it's that's that's that's the again that's a distorted interpretation you receiving christ didn't produce a fear but what was the god image you were introduced to so what i what i tell people with ocd is what you have to understand when you look at your root system especially when it's religious scrupulosity kind of stuff faith am i saved am i not it goes back to two main things your parental view of how they represented god to you who god is as a father who god is as a nurturer and and how grace was operated in your home number two is your faith tribe the churches that you grew up in the the environment what was the basis of of life how did you find belonging there what was the emphasis allah and so i i every person that i sit down and talk with there is significant things in the root system does it negate your salvation not at all not at all when i accepted christ i was like four and a half years old did i fully understand the gospel in the fullest way no does it mean i wasn't saved no and and that's that's where black and white thinking of perfectionism gets in the way of understanding salvation we look at it as an all or nothing and if i if i don't feel it that means i don't have it and and and it gives no room for process and no room for journey so the key here is the god image because what has been a part of how you saw god is someone who doesn't doesn't love you doesn't see you with unconditional love he's distant so that brings up the rejection issue the root of rejection which that creates a distortion of how you approach god he's far he's distant you got to work your way back to him you got to go through a lot of hula hoops a lot of prayers and things like that to to get in that place and even when you do it you never really get it and what i want to bring you back to is who he is as a loving father and how he receives you so your issue is not getting your salvation perfect and it's not you trying to get your act together it's more about learning who god really is and um so you find now i'll continue with your with what you wrote uh i feel like he's distant i'm now 49 years old so this is a 40-year battle keeping this in mind i'll get to my questions which will not be seeking reassurance from you in any way hahaha so but i'm already addressing upfront what you're going to need is you're going to need some regular ongoing work on the root system of how what does it mean to be unconditionally loved what does it mean to be unconditionally loved to experience that that's going to take some work maybe some counsel maybe some one-on-one work reading from people and authors who bring out the love of god bring out grace that unconditional love that nurture that is so important of receiving the comfort and and nurture being able to love yourself the way that god loves you that's going to be important okay so let me get into your your your two questions one has to do with bible reading i want to learn how to read and study the bible correctly aka in context i am one that falls into the category of feeling intense guilt and condemnation when reading ruminating over doctrines and various scriptures that scare me and ramp up my doubting and obsessive researching i end up with a lot of plans and resources with no progress more questions and end up avoiding the bible altogether i've adjusted my focus to seek god himself relationship and somehow learn to receive his love for your teachings that's great that's great because i oftentimes encourage people just reboot the whole thing because your your obsessive researching is part of your compulsion and um we have a lot of people out there that encourage that you can look up any theological question and you have people out there that are spinning in those things and i'm not like trying to speak against them i just don't find it productive for changing hearts i don't see people saying yeah i went to this theological debate and argument and or i went to this thing and now my relationship with god is so much fuller and i'm manifesting the fruit of the spirit now i i find it gets people more judgmental more like i'm right you're wrong i know perfect theology people out there present themselves as though their theology is like spotless like they just they have got figured out like wow look at you you've got it all figured out you got all the right answers for everything it's very concerning and then it makes ocd people worse because you just spin out on those subjects and those issues so i think what you said there is a good pathway i i'm just looking to dumb everything to dumb down everything to where i can read scripture for the holy spirit can make it come life to my heart it's not about dumbing it down it's about simplicity and for ocd sufferers the the aspects of the gospel are so simple it's almost too good to be true that you're absolutely loved right now and you don't need to chase these thoughts at all you can actually just be loved by his grace right now that it that seems so far because unconditional love is not understood there's a real there's a real there's a real um disconnect in that area in your journey now on my site and again i'm gonna i'm gonna encourage people to go back to resources markdejesus.com go to the podcast section my wife and i as long as as well as myself doing some solo episodes in season number 10 the christian and mental health there's a lot of stuff there that's very good for the ocd journey in season 10 episode three i talk about reading the bible for mental health episode five grace and mental health episode six peace and mental health um then in eight nine and ten i did three episodes on biblical insights for mental health so go through that allow that to wash over your heart because i'm gonna encourage getting into relationship yeah but mark how well i can't tell you step one two three four how to have a great relationship you know there's there's there's concepts and there's things but you have to practice discover and learn and but i find it's a big thing like let go of the rigidity of structure and find empowering routine find empowering ways to get yourself out of getting heady and and find ways to like you said i'm just i'm focusing on what does it mean to be loved so maybe that day you journal on what does it mean to be a hundred percent loved what would it look like today if i just lived 100 loved i'm just gonna live that way well i don't feel and it's okay that's unconditional love unconditional love is here no matter your performance right even though god calls us to new levels he's still patient with his love with us so um so it's not about dumbing down its simplicity and i like to give back to what it means to have a simple childlike heart come as a child well how do i do that mark well if you're a parent you have children watch your children let god teach you by watching your children when if you're a dad and you come home and your child's excited to see you why are they excited to see you what'd you do to earn that nothing they just love you your dad and they just love coming to you and god's saying come to me with that same that same innocence i learned i've learned a lot on grace and love by watching my kids god's used them to minister to me it's a divine setup so i remember even when i was single this this will sound so basic and almost like for most of you it would pass you by but i used this in my life in my journey now way back not the church i pastored but when i was on uh on staff a lot larger church staff and i was in charge of music productions and all that kind of stuff busy busy busy all that performance god's doing this like renovation work in my life i'm so grateful but it was tough it was really tough but i started tuning into the simple things because i recognize this i don't know how to be loved to love i don't know what love is and sometimes that honest statement helps you to then know what you're looking for ocd suffers you need to learn what love is period and that takes a journey of daily being open to that and so i had a friend of mine who in the church who had some children that were in the the nursery and they would just every time they would see me they would just love to see me pastor mark pastor mark pastor mark and i don't know i just i just said you know what god i'm learning love from just seeing my friends children i was single at the time wasn't even married max and abby were not in the picture that was a i was a ways away from that but i said you know what i would get ready for church and i would head down this hallway you know busy busy busy gotta get up on stage sir church service service order got these songs these are this three minutes that for four minutes 17 minutes this is just all that right so all this pressure super serious and i just walked by and they go hey pastor mark and i would just stop and i would just pause and i would just take in what jesus said when he said you want to come into the kingdom come to me like that child and i'll just pause and i'll just take that and god help me to have a heart like them to have that child like faith and and that's where in my journey i don't i take a lot of little things and and focus on them in a good way i used to focus on every little thing i didn't need to focus on and i've turned that where now simple things like looking at a tree now i can stand and look at that tree and go god you're amazing you created this i pause and let myself take in and you know the bible says that creation displays the glory of god how many of us how many of you out there watching listening take time to actually look at creation and become overwhelmed with the awe of who god is and let that awe lead you to greater discovery of his love for me that's that's been an amazing journey so you said um to continue going back to the reading so i was talking about not necessarily dumbing down because dumbing down means like you're dumb and that you know i don't want to put you down that's unloving i want to build you up in love so you've battled this for 40 years that's okay it does 40 years doesn't mean you're now a harder case now most of you believe that the longer you've had the problem the worst case you are maybe it just takes 40 years for you to learn what you need to learn see how like many sufferers are wanting me to like yell at them yeah 40 years oh my goodness you're a tough case no maybe just took you 40 years to come to where you are now because it takes other people 40 years they never get over their problem or their journey or ever get awakened and what they need i'm willing to scrap everything i tried where do you or do you suggest i start i would love to be able to just start reading scriptures scripture alone and my eyes just open and seeking commentaries and such get me off on endless trails so yeah let go of the commentaries um what scriptures are helpful right now focus there and just park there and put a variety to it maybe some days go for walks and just look at what it means to be loved maybe you need to go stare at the lilies what are you talking about mark that's biblical you know people ask jesus questions and you go look at the lilies and all the ocd people are like no wait where's the torah where's this in the torah i need a scripture give me a scripture give me a scripture he's like okay look at the sparrow no still need a scripture give me uh this is not in the bible this is false doctrine and jesus like look at the sparrows you want you want a kingdom download go look at this kid it's the freedom is so simple it'll pass you by yeah yeah love of god yeah yeah love of god no no we are not passing it by there is no other subject for you right now the love of god and what does that mean so i'm just gonna learn what it means to be loved talking to your wife most most um people that that i work with are married have children they say what's my homework go love your spouse go love your spouse go learn what it means to be loved have some great conversations while you're in your goofiness go have some great conversations love on your children if you're single get out and get into a conversation with someone else that you're not analyzing and editing and learning how to just let love have its work this is good all right so second part of this question is um it says regarding the love of god in your teachings i hear half the church stating that point of view backed with scripture and i hear the other half teaching god has unconditional love for his children often referred to as the ones he elected to be his children oh okay getting into getting into this gotcha but abhors the wicked those he did not elect to be saved which they back with scripture how can i try and reconcile that scripture appears to teach both especially when fear and doubt is so prevalent in my heart this is my opinion these arguments about the elect i see no fruitfulness in how people argue about it now it's amazing to look at my journey and to know that my journey has a has a divine blueprint to it since before the foundations of the earth i think it's been more unhelpful for us to chase these predestined elect kind of arguments because many people fall into when they struggle with their salvation they say well i must not be one of the elect and it's like then it negates certain scriptures of god saying he's not willing to any perish he's not looking at you going that you're out man that's why you're struggling you're never going to be in that's not redemptive that's that's and and i understand that i understand sometimes what people are trying to say with elect and all that and i don't get into those debates you know i i used to dive into that you know you get into calvinism arminianism and all that and at the end of it everybody was just heady and they just i'm right you're wrong.com and it was you know just i always say that i'm like maybe that's actually a whip website um and i just don't i don't see the fruit of the spirit manifesting in that you know does god know the end from the beginning yeah he knows everything so you know future yeah there's a mystery to this does he have a does he have a destined plan for the people of god for us as a body as his people yeah you know does does god right now have a fixed time of his return of jesus return yeah even jesus said he doesn't even know the father knows it's it's right but who knows that the father isn't working with what's happening in the world and and i don't know it is there's a lot more mystery and if you think you have it all figured out you don't but i think a lot of these things any any doctrine that doesn't that doesn't deeply root itself in the love of grace of god it's going to open up to legalism and i think we have just as much legalism in the christian church today as the pharisees did oh we're not sacrificing goats and lambs we just have sophisticated ways of legalism and religiousness and we're putting yokes on people by having these arguments is it producing more freedom i look i look at things that i believe is it producing more freedom in my life is it is it causing me to rejoice more in what christ has done is it is it manifesting more of the fruit of the spirit and a lot of these things are not manifesting more the fruit of the spirit it's creating more strife so anyways i don't even know that i i helped answer those questions but again i want to get to the the root system more okay another question i'd like to thank you i think this is about marriage i think i i know you get a lot of emails but i still hope mine would get your attention i'd like to thank you for everything you've done in your ministry you've helped me so much in regards to my relationship with jesus and self-acceptance awesome i'm 25 years old from europe and suffer from ocd for about 10 years i'd also like to ask you something specific i don't know why you put specific in quotes but about my situation after most of your videos and having read a few of your books i've had this with most of the things i do or like but this was the most intense one yet i i am in a relationship with a christian girl for seven months i'm about to propose to her oh here we go okay now i know what's what's coming so here's what happens if you have ocd an event like proposal your uncertainty rises this moves you into a transition into a new season and usually in transitions ocd symptoms want to increase getting engaged getting married having children buying a house moving geographically having your parents going through a divorce you've been through a divorce going through major changes going to university having your children leave the home having a change of jobs losing your job these all become transition times where uncertainty rises and ocd will want to increase and your control issues wanting to come in and get everything under control fight or flight kicks in you want to you tend to become more neurotic and things like that okay i should probably just read this rather than rather than rather than predicting where this is going we'd like to get married next year maybe make it sooner as soon as as soon as i got joy and happiness from the opportunity to be in a relationship with her as soon as she accepted jesus okay so i'm getting the impression she accepted christ now your relationship's growing and you um you've proposed you're you're about to propose i start worrying and obsessing that maybe god didn't want me in that relationship that's a classic symptom of relationship substantiation where you you have a a obsession about the standing and quality and realness of your relationship and this is one of the symptoms that happens you make a you make a decision for commitment and now all of a sudden you're on this whole journey you make a decision for commitment and now all of a sudden god's gonna come in and say no you shouldn't have done this it creates this very distorted view of god's relationship in our life as though as though everything was fine but then god's just gonna turn the tables now now you're making the decision and say no and that that's exactly what i struggled with it's a distorted view of god and it's a destroyed view of how you hear god's voice this fear amplified to a level in which i had tremendous and dreadful fear of going to hell if i don't give it up and god only wanted me to bring her to him now and i have done my assignment is a very very ongoing religious ocd problem is you think anything that involves desire god doesn't want so you want a new job god doesn't want it very distorted i gotta surrender all these things the subject of surrender is very very distorted it's it's a more self-martyred martyrdom it's a more it's like it's like a self beating a a a self torture it's not it's not the surrender the bible is talking about and so you see here the fear is amplifying and now it's bringing you're going to hell so the pressure and all that is is is rising up so it's revealing all the distortions i talk about i had this to i've not met anyone that's had i'll put it this way i've not met anyone that's had it worse than i did so if we're gonna play if we're gonna play top my ocd for me it was epic it was epic and so i know what it's like to be at that intent on making the wrong decision in the wrong place and i realized that i that i needed an overhaul this isn't about you're right now focus on should i marry her should i not that's not the issue the issue is the distortions i talk about and there's a healing needed in how you see god and so moving through the next relationship steps are going to be part of your healing journey since then i've been to psychiatrists psychotherapy taking medicine talking to my pastor and several prayers for healing and knowing what you teach i really appreciate it and accept everything you say i haven't been nurtured i haven't been properly loved for my parents especially my dad didn't really love me he demanded everything but didn't give out freely see what i'm saying folks that right there is a recipe for abuse in your thinking expectation without love is it becomes abusive so and i know i know i'm using strong words but sometimes i have to do that to jar you to realize what you need you need love so now you're getting to the real problem well done well done because you've moved past the symptom i had to i had to fight for love never got the affection and this picture of a father is what i project on god sadly i feel like after all my father was never happy if i was bingo you literally diagnosed yourself properly that's good interpretation so therefore you interpret that to god you want to get married you love this girl you're excited you make the decision and what you need is the beauty of enjoyment right but ocd stuffers have a hard time enjoying anything guilt comes in oh you shouldn't be and all and then the father image comes in if you're enjoying it god doesn't so you're constantly feeling like you're working against him so my remaining questions are is it normal that guilt based on a lie can be felt exactly the same as real guilt yeah ocd sufferers need to get free from guilt period and separating this out like real guilt and not real guilt um now you just you need a guilt detox period god's primary mechanism of dealing with his children is not using guilt and i know that that like you're like what no and i'll tell you and i tell people why god doesn't use guilt because guilt is manipulative if i put guilt on you i'm trying to manipulate your emotions so if you if we had a meeting and you're late to the meeting and i was like you know you really need to like you need to you know you're just late all the time i just keep beating on that and beating on that what am i doing i'm pushing that on your emotions now a loving response would be like how can we how can we have if it's a problem how can we have better meetings where we can both be there at a good time together how can we make this now see that second way is more loving it's more compassionate still dealing with the issue right but ocd sufferers are chronic they're chronically addicted addicted just like a cocaine addict you're the equivalent of a cocaine addict and your drugs are guilt fear obsession guilt fear and obsession and so you you respond the same way a drug addict does they can do great for a little bit but when the drug hits the way you hid the thought the way you respond you go exactly like a drug addict does no one can stop you people try to they tell you and you fall into it anyways right that's why i talk so much about addictions and in fact ocd sufferers have an addictive root in their root system some for many of them it goes into actual addictions of drugs drug history drugs in their family alcoholism many have pornography addictions some kind of sexual struggle addictions right so there's an addiction root and ocd has a and i i proclaim this a lot has an addictive component to it and this has become very very very very clear to my wife and i because we've worked with a lot of addicts issues we've had addictions in our families and in our pastoral work we had a lot of addiction issues come up and there's there's very similar pathways in how drug addicts or alcoholics or sex addicts have with ocd just manifests uh in in some unique ways but still still has an addictive route so so um i want to encourage you to get out of th this this know like lie guilt and real guilt that's not god's primary mechanism is not forcing guilt on you point instead pointing you to what christ has done for you and receiving them because guilt will accuse you about your performance and then you try to fix your performance and do better what's that that's law that's performance instead let god get to the root and heart of things allow the work of what christ has done to have a deeper work in your life so anyways is it normal that i feel angry and frustrated at god because sometimes i believe that what ocd is requesting me to do is from god um is it normal if you're angry and frustrated god well it's normal to feel angry it's okay to be angry you're frustrated you're angry with god but you're angry with the distorted god so no wonder you're angry because he's what i listed out before what you wrote about he's against what you want and all this stuff that you that you struggle with so one of my biggest breakthroughs in mental health in in healing and mental health has been first and foremost this stuff is not of god this isn't god god's not putting it on me god's not trying to tell me something with it and god's not just gonna snap his fingers and take it off of me because many of you go run run to prayer ministries and run and you want you just want this to be you want your brain to just be fixed so i'm going to tell you what god would do if he answered your prayers all you people that say god heal my mental health what god's going to do is he's going to remove everything you have in your life to be able to choose and make a decision it's going to empty out your heart and soul and sticking you robotic components you're now a robot and he's now going to push buttons and everything you do is a command coming from the robot instructor now i'm being silly right because you're not robots god can't choose for you how you're going to deal with the next thought and the next thought i have and how i learned to respond to it is going to determine aspects of how i deal with mental health one after the other after the other after the other so i encourage people in their journey it's a journey you're learning how to think and this stuff isn't going to snap overnight and maybe you'll say to me i tried this for for a week and tried this for a month like this is going to take this is going to take more than that are you okay with that are you okay that you may have to spend the next year the next five years next 10 years i don't know and maybe people say no that's crazy oh my goodness how about you learn to see this as a journey of learning and i think you're at a you're an amazing point going back to this this email you're at an amazing point where you can now set a new foundation for the years ahead but it's going to take some work you say i also feel like ocd is trying to force me to prove god that i still value him over everything else which leads me to give up everything i like and enjoy no that's not of god that's not of god you can't prove to him his love instead learn to let his love learn what love is learn to say yes to it and learn to connect to enjoyment with god that's that's part of the pathway for healing also i am not ready to give up on something i enjoy or love if i don't have a hundred percent assurance there's your black and white all or nothing perfectionism there's your all or nothing mentality that it's really god and not ocd speaking to me but the sadly the fear is increasing as well so yeah so that intensity is going to always lead you to failure i need to know 100 there's that need for certainty uncertainty is a myth you could examine anything in life and and realize there's uncertainty in everything so that's not that's relationship is not improved by a hundred percent certainty it's improved through learning how to give how to receive love so something to note is that we've had so many blessings in our journey and relationship and good works done in church every time there was something in the way of the relationship god helped us through it and held us together even though i risked our relationship a few times just so god would have it easy to remove one from each other thank you melissa for all you've done i'm looking further to get your remaining books and watch your streams as before so fantastic hope that my feedback is a blessing to your life so here we go ready for another one are you ready let's get ready this one's on some more religious ocd i've been watching your ocd help videos over the last three days thank you for making these available i've been diagnosed with religious ocd and i'm currently working with a christian ocd specialist that's awesome that's great like you i hope to one day help others who are going through similar things why one day why one day do you do you have to be qualified you know i like to challenge statements i hope to one day wait someday over the rainbow when you get it together how about you help people right now oh i don't know i'm too much of a why do you have to present yourself as arriving i don't present myself as arriving i'm i'm still i'm still neck deep in my healing journey and always will be i'm enjoying it learning each day right you could help people right now with what you've learned you know like like like the woman who met jesus said ah i'm sorry the the um the person was healed who said i don't know i was blind but now i see you know i don't know this you know let me tell you about the man who told all this stuff about me they just shared with what they learn and you're like i'm learning what it means to be loved what about you all right here's what i'm learning what are you learning that's to me that's powerful ministry a lot of what we do is just performance putting on a show and trying to play a role and all that stuff so anyways i really want to improve and have already started getting better thanks thanks uh god my depression has has greatly improved that's awesome it's wonderful can i quickly tell you my story quickly i became a christian at 13 but drifted away from god in college and stayed that way for almost a decade i sinned in many areas of my life i sense i i since already the stacking of the story of how bad you are i'm getting the very very sinful person is starting to rise up here then then i said something to a friend that i still can't forget i told him that jesus is not the only way to heaven okay so you said that no what the what ocd wants is said that right let's amplify it okay so you said that we've all said a lot of things we've all said a lot of things we wish we didn't say and thank god that we don't have to be nailed to a wall and god's gracious with us and merciful so i hold no judgment against you for saying that be kind to yourself about it weeks after i began to feel guilty and rightly so there's that like i feel guilty and i deserved it i deserved it mark ah hot eyes how dare i say that how dare i say that i'm gonna give you a strong word ocd's people and i don't like saying that i don't want to label you with that but you know what i'm saying there is this work going on of unworthiness of love you've come into agreement that you deserve a punished life you you just deserve that and so it fuels this i feel guilty and i should how dare i do these things i'm a sinner right and it sounds to some christians like oh that's really that's really holy that's good no it's not now we sinners yeah so what's the remedy you fixing everything you've said because if you've got to fix this here's the rules of the law ready ladies and gentlemen i'm going to tell you the rules of the law you can't pick and choose the law you pick one you pick all of it so if this sin is the sin that's being held against you you have to not only fix this you got to fix every rotten thing you've ever said in your life you got to fix them all you can't pick and choose you you got to fix them all folks so if you're a repentant person in in compulsive repentance you can't just repent for that you got to repent for every single thing ever in the history of your life and you better not miss it oh wait your memory doesn't remember everything guess you can't do it right see where this goes it's law law strangles you and it will eat you up alive so i confessed my sin the years of drifting from him and saying what i said about jesus that's fine that's fine saying i've drifted from you i want to be back with you and have and have not returned to that way of living awesome that's great that's wonderful i've started going back to church and i'm seeking god wonderful right the problem is i'm afraid god cannot pardon what i did so much that has become an obsession so so there's so jesus's sacrifice on the cross isn't is not for certain sins is that so you have to understand this ocd is now it's going to start defending itself i talked to many family members christian friends and pastors and i've done extensive online research on the unpardonable sin losing salvation and those that have fallen away from hebrews 6. now that's not what you need to do that's not at all what you need to do nope what you need to do is um hear the feedback from people that they're probably telling you you don't need to focus on that the anxiety is at times unbearable so what you're really following is anxiety and guilt you're not really following um the the helpful insights that you really need you see the the people who have reached out to you see okay this is it this is it i see it okay this is where we are folks this is where we are if you haven't paid attention stop even commenting in the comment section pay attention to what i'm gonna say right here okay i'm gonna read this you see the people who've reached out to you seem to have these intrusive thoughts that aren't really their own it's not their fault with me i really sinned and have a legitimate reason for fearing that my friends summarizes the stumbling block of religious ocd right there this thing is a self-protecting guard and i see it everywhere infecting religious ocd you hear an example and you go no my problem's different no no all ocd suffers your problem is not unique i know i'm being like like like strong in my statements your problem is not unique your ocd struggle is not unique it's not it's not i know i know i know it i've seen this enough it's not unique you're you've become loyal to your suffering and you're defending your suffering no no no this sin so what we do now hear me out what we do is we actually develop a spiritual pride in protecting our ocd as though your situation makes god's salvation not good enough you see how the what the absence of love does to us you become self-surviving you you do this on your own you know are you taking this into your heart i know we've got all kinds of people in the comments section sometimes people in the comments section you're not paying attention you're off in some other subject i've really sinned oh so you are in an exclusive group of people oh you're in an elite group that jesus's blood is not good enough for so you hold up this sin and we don't look at it this way we go i'm just you hold up this sin what i would say today is you have to make a decision because you've held this story and you're loyal to it and you research scriptures or the unpardonable sin no you didn't commit the unpardonable sin you didn't how do you know because un people commit the unpardonable sin don't think about the unpardonable sin their hearts are so far hardened they've absolutely in every way shape and form rejected the gospel and every ocd sufferer who spends about their salvation actually values salvation otherwise that's that's why it's disturbing because they have this conflict because they actually want salvation but you think your problem so what people do is write to me even in my coaching sessions i'll give an example and if the example doesn't perfectly match their story they dismiss it and then there is a defense of your story that says no no no mine is different i'm here to tell you today as a brother from another mother who loves you your story of your ocd is not unique and beware that what the shame that makes you feel isolated in this can also make you not receive the teaching you need you won't hear what you need to hear and you dismiss because many people say i go to my counselors i go to my friends i go to my family and what are they all saying saying you know you know what to do so let go and what does the person do no i gotta stay in this there's actually a stubborn defense of it and this is why you get frustrated with your counselors or you say this exposure therapy doesn't work or this doesn't work because at the end of the day i have to be willing to say i've got to depart from the story and narrative i've been latching around i create i create this sense of safety and i'm so loyal to it this and thank you the person who wrote this and i know i know i'm giving some strong statements but sometimes we need to be jarred out of it i needed some some strong statement said to me at times whether it's friends whether it's my wife whether it's people you know i said in the q a yesterday where somebody told me if you continue this pattern you're going to be 60 and alone that was strong it was harsh but it it eventually awakened me i need to make some changes because that's not the life that i want so there is no there there is no illegitimate reason for fearing and legitimate reason for fearing people to say that all right no mark this is real fear so what are we in now fake fear and real fear there's just fear there's no legitimate fear and illegitimate fear it's just there's fear that's that's what there is there is no fake guilt and real guilt there's just guilt be aware of being super loyal to your story and propping up this sin that that's you've propped this sin up that you did this i said jesus isn't the way and you've propped it up as this standard that god cannot touch how about we just blow it up stick some dynamite in it and just blow the whole thing up just tear it down boom not doing this anymore moving in a new direction you see i knew the truth and yet turned from god and said a horrible thing okay that's the story you have to make a decision with about letting go this is what i tell my therapist and your therapist is probably telling you what are you going to do with that story what are you going to do with that it's time to time to let it go you're in a competition of who has the worst sin and you are you're present you don't you don't think of it this way but you're in a i'm the worst sinner competition and you're trying to set yourself as the leader can you give me some clarity oh i hope i did no one can help you if you defend your story there's a story that we believe the bible says whose report will you believe whose story will you believe your story is you committed a sin that cannot be forgiven it there's no help for it and the input you're receiving most likely is not being taken in so it's not allowing you to get sober to what you really need the most fearful thing is perhaps i could deny that god could deny me repentance and forgiveness similar to those people described in hebrews 6 6 that there is a limit to his grace that's that's inflaming your story that your situation is too far from god's grace so the the you know you said give clarity i'll give clarity but i have to be honest and that's why i'm all about learning to grow in love and in that love i'll be honest with you because i'm dealing with people's lives here i'm dealing with families i'm dealing with relationships there's a lot of erosion that takes place because of ocd so i've got to get to the point you'll have to make a decision to come to the end of your story and say i've got to let this go and i gotta learn what it means to be unconditionally loved beautifully forgiven what it means to be forgiven and you're gonna have to forgive yourself this is a self-hatred issue it's a self-bitterness issue it's an unworthiness issue you don't feel worthy of love and and we can defend our unworthiness by pushing away pushing away and many christians can do this really as a chronic pattern oh it wasn't me was the lord no no don't you we kind of just deflect deflect deflect receive love but we gotta let go of the story all right if this material is a blessing to your life mark dejesus.com consider one time donation or become a regular supporter that helps a lot the books and materials unconditional love is a great journey and god loves me to love myself that's a major major turning point when i when i develop that material it's was a huge aspect of my journey and greatly helped ocd battles which then helped me in many battles and the protocol for dealing with ocd it has helped me to deal with anger differently it's helped me to deal with having a bad day differently it's helped me in dealing with difficult people better it's just it's refreshing but i've had to go through the ringer it's it's you know you go through some stuff in the healing process it's not not easy okay ocd and salvation we're back to some of that again there's a lot of that that comes in thank you so much for taking the time to read this your ministry is helping me so much i'll try not to get ocd and write a novel bottom line is i've always struggled with feeling grateful for salvation and feeling close to god all right let's stop right there i've always struggled with feeling grateful if you have ocd emotions are really difficult so be grateful even though you don't feel it what does it look like to live grateful even though you may not feel it the way you want to because your perfectionistic expectations too high you know gratitude may not be this euphoric amazing oh my goodness i'm overtaken it might just be a simple thank you god so the the the feeling we we get lost in the feelings and it keeps us from just taking action and so you want to be grateful so be grateful just let your let your faith show in steps of of just stepping into gratitude express your gratitude share gratitude let your words be a rudder the bible talks about our words being a rudder right so let yourself on a regular basis just express gratitude and if the feeling's not there so what so what are there times where you said you know um you express love to someone but you're like struggling with the feeling yeah so what the feeling's not always going to be there feelings take time to catch up and for ocd they take a while to catch up so anyways the way things were explained to me or at least how i've understood them is that i was the worst here we go we've got the sinners competition today who is the worst so bad that god couldn't look at me here we go so bad so bad we're in a sinner's competition here so this is in competition with the other person that wrote like ooh you're neck and neck i deserve to burn for all eternity for my sins i was about six when i first had this thought to me so cheating at uno and lying about it were the greatest of my trespasses at that point in my life so this tell me what's going on when you were six you know what was the what was the family upbringing now you can have a good solid family and still have ocd issues so but what was father like what was nurture like because unconditional love of the father healing nurture super important because then it helps you in how to deal with the response of those things that put cheating at uno in its place you know versus it being these things that you gotta like narrowly focus in on nevertheless i deserved eternal darkness and burning for these sins but our loving god decided to have his only son brutally tortured and killed in my place so what i hear in your story already is i hear the emphasis of the punishment and darkness that's what i'm taking away from what you're writing i'm not i'm not hearing the glory of what was done for you so far it could change the brutal torture and death was also something i deserved but he took it for me now i agree that i don't deserve to go to heaven and that definitely feels like a gift to be thankful for but even if you added all my sins together how do you do that how do you do you have a calculator do you do you punch in the numbers there are times when i'm reading this i'm going to make jokes because this is part of your therapy you got to laugh at some of the stuff because part of the problem is we're taking ourselves too seriously mark this is heaven or hell not in this way this is just this is just hell mark's laughing at hell why is he laughing no because my lord took the keys did he take the keys or did he not do you take keys or do you lose his keys like i lose my keys where i put my keys all my keys where'd i put my keys i'm always losing my keys where are my keys oh they're over there there's my keys i can see them over there okay got my keys we treat our relationship with god like like mark's losing his keys you know he took the keys of death hell in the grave he put an open display to principalities and powers anyways back to the even if you added all my senses together i have a real hard time with a god that says he's merciful and kind but also says i deserve eternal darkness and burning for what i've done um i would the feedback i would give you is i don't see mercy on what you're saying i'm seeing purely how terrible you are how terrible your sins are all the way back to your childhood and and and and the the very intense punishment you deserve that's the case you're bringing out here so we need to start magnifying the bible says magnify god with me what does that mean and get that my microscope out let's magnify him let's let's make him the big focus what does ocd do do you notice ocd doesn't magnify god it magnifies our flaws it magnifies our our sins magnifies our mistakes now i um i don't wow more eternal darkness burning wow how many times can you say darkness and burning i don't feel the punishment fits the crime and it's so hard to feel thankful that i was spared from what feels like a very unjust punishment it's also hard to look at god as his loving father when he looks at me as someone worthy of eternal burning you're winning the competition if you want the competition of eternal burning you're winning i've been told to not worry because god sees jesus when he looks at me i don't feel the love knowing god has to put a bag over my head with jesus picture on it wow this is self-hatred man this is self-hatred and unworthiness and so you have created a case propped up god can't forgive can't heal can't love so that case has now become impenetrable so you've got it up as a a statue to the world that you point to how rotten you are and so therefore of course that's going to infect your god image of just constant disdain that's that's what that's what's coming off of these words disdain that he's if he receives you it's barely barely like he's just you know disgusted by you so it's a self-hatred unworthiness thing that have to make a decision do you want love do you want this covenant of what he did or do you want to do you want to punish yourself like like the monks used to do in in writings where they would sit there and put themselves there there's so many stories of like monks and people in the church that would have these self-punishing fasts and things they put themselves through they're like i'm just unworthy like no you hate yourself that's not that's not receiving what christ has done yes we recognize our sinful state and in gratitude receive how do you express gratitude i'm going to say it very simply to my brother here how do you express gratitude for salvation you actually receive it and say yes this is for me and take it in that's what gratitude leads you to that's that's how we learn how to receive people say how do i learn to receive god's love practice gratitude for it but there is a yeah but that comes up and it's your story yeah but darkness and eternal punish i can't believe i even you know it's the emphasis on your sinful state with nothing else in the story so of course it leaves you to a dark because that's the testimony you carry the testimony you carry is of your darkness i mean put a bag over your head that's and this is just what you're writing to me i you know it's all self-hate there's no way god looks at you like that no way no way no how but i can't convince you of that you have to make a decision i'm going to receive that so that's where you're at right now bag over my head god can't stand me hate myself and i deserve a rotten life or i have this beautiful amazing love for me and i'm going to say yes to it that decision is yours that decision is yours but i'll tell you that unworthiness wants to strangle and it it's it's killing our men in in really bad ways i tell a story i do a whole chapter in my book god loves me i love myself about the destructive bondage of unworthiness where we say oh i'm not worthy i'm a sinner and what it really is is no god it's actually a realm of pride pushing back what god has freely offered to us and we call it spirituality it's not it's not impressive i'm not impressed is it anyone trying to impress with these kind of things no it's just self-hate it's no different than any self hey i've struggled with or other people struggle with an unworthiness and i tell the story in the book about the day i i i preached to the men in our church and i said it's time for us to get out of passivity because god is is is providing his love and his grace to work through you as men as leaders and we need to rise and stand up and be leaders and initiators and stop being passive in our homes and i stood there with my hands in the air gave a very passionate message so i'm standing here so who's going to stand with me and in that day in that church service the unworthiness took out every man in that room not one man stood the women in the room started weeping and crying i felt i felt i could feel the visceral anger in some of the females why won't they receive their sonship they were passive but there was also an unworthiness that in pride say no because if i truly receive it it's going to lead me into a whole different path so we have to beware of this masquerading piety or this masquerading kind of spirituality that actually just pushes back the love and the grace that god has for us i'm sure i've processed this all wrong but i don't know how to look at it any other way i admit i've never wanted to be a christian i just don't want to go to hell but i don't really want to go to heaven and see the father who doesn't want to see me i could use some help you got to want the help and if you want the help you're going to open yourself up to learning who god really is you have to decide what you're going to receive now you've built up this story for quite some time it's going to take some time to renew the story renew who god is and how you process relationship with him so next one ocd and god's will god's will that's definitely a topic of of obsession for many thank you for your content mark it's been opening me to uncovering ways of thinking that were damaged by ocd i struggle with the idea that god may not want me to date my current girlfriend because of different possible sin issues in my life i fear he may not want me to date her and if i stay with her it would be considered idolatry i would like your advice on how to attack this ocd issue from your perspective any practical advice would be appreciated yeah probably um keep keep dating and um it's not healthy to say i'm not going to date someone because i i have issues that's not like a good long-term thing it's healthy at times to go you know i need some space to just focus on some things maybe if you've been in a relationship for a long time or something but learn how to be loved is going to be important for you learning how to be loved and so i would say yeah you have some of the similar issues as other people you're you anything that you want or anything that you want to pursue relationship wise it goes into idolatry this is an idolatry thing so you got to give it up give up the relationship and stay single it's a distortion of idolatry so um yeah i would say you gotta you're gonna learn in this relationship have discussions together talk together about what it means to to grow in love and to work through your issues grow in relationship that'd be my my feedback for you and have some good people in your life that are aware of your battle they can give you good healthy feedback and listen to it don't go yeah but yeah but um next question struggle and of the existence of god i think this is about yeah doubting the existence of god hey mark i just want to thank you for allowing god to use you as a voice of hope for many people who struggle under the weight of ocd i have been dealing with doubting the existence of god for about three years and these troublesome feelings and thoughts escalated after receive receiving devastating news about a fellow church member okay so this is a great example of the problem is not the problem it's not it's not so much about doubting god as is the pain of whatever happened to this church member friend that pain needs to be processed through but problem is then that unprocessed on work through that it pings into all these other directions so my encouragement is focus on working through and healing whatever happened there there are no words to describe how painful and scary these feelings or thoughts are they don't have to be though they don't have to be they're they're they're they're painful because of the distortion like you doubt god everybody has doubts no mark my doubts are there we go no it's just you have a conditioning where you respond to those thoughts with these seven distortions so so okay is there really a god there's that perfectionistic pressure i gotta get this thought just right i gotta get started just right it's all or nothing black and white so i either totally believe god all and everything in my being or not at all and there's a struggle with uncertainty and uncertainty is increasing here you're going through something painful regarding your friend uncertainty rises distorted meaning of your thoughts you overestimate the threat it's it's this is really really dangerous and your responsibility to carry it you got to control it and so then you don't feel equipped in how you deal with your emotions so it had a tremendous impact on your mood i've also dealt with self-hatred since i was a child there you go there you go so that's where i would encourage the journey you got to learn to love yourself the way god loves you see yourself that self-hatred since i was a child which adds to the heaviness yes it's one of the big symptoms that self-hatred does is it is it fuels depression i have many scriptures and other christian motivational statements that i recite several times a day and they help me a lot well that's great i declare all the time that no matter what i'm going to stand on the word of god let me give you a suggestion no matter what i'm going to stand on i am loved because saying the word of god like it's like what does that mean you know i know what you're saying i'm not saying don't say that but i want to target what you're battling i'm going to stand today that i am loved and that's in my chapter in the book i talk about what it means to actually practice ways of speaking to yourself and being loving towards yourself i declare all the time that no matter what i'm going to stand on the word of god are there some other things you can recommend that i can do more of it yeah what i shared there is is is what i would recommend for sure another one this is about interpretation and meaning so again i'm going to put that put that slide back up i know when referring to ocd anxiety you have mentioned about firing the interpreter yes fire it fire the interpreter fire the interpreter don't don't have a conversation with the interpreter don't have lunch with the interpreter don't argue with interpret fire him he's not translating effectively what does that look like that doesn't turn into a mental argument firing the interpreter is not arguing with the interpreter so if i was going to russia and i was an ambassador from the united states and i i don't know russian very well but i know enough but i'm not comfortable enough to give a speech so i take with me an interpreter and i go and i'm representing the united states of america over a critical issue right i go and talk and give a response and it's very important that my words be translated and the translator i recognize is not sharing the heart of what i'm trying to say and it could be taken the wrong way this is an important issue what will happen interpreter gets fired i'm not going to sit and debate about what i said with him what i said is what i say interpret what i'm saying for ocd suffers they have an interpreter that needs to be fired it's the filter by which so take your subject and you have to realize in that subject and in many subjects i have to just fire the interpreter so when i feel guilt and anxiety i'm not interpreting things in a healthy way i'm not interpreting my situations and this is where the ocd gets so off the rails in every question i put in the the interpretation's distorted so what do you have to do you have to learn you have to learn who god is in his love you have to learn faith hope and love you have to learn what it means to feed on thoughts that fuel power love and a sound mind and the it's like coming off of a drug coming off of cocaine leaving the argument completely yeah but it's challenging my salvation yup you have to leave it and now live as though you're saved that no more that's it can't can't do it anymore any time it's like an alcoholic can't walk by a bar just can't not do it anymore because every time he'll just hook me in hook me and hook me in i'm moving into new territory i have to let it go but yeah but what is this one argument um and and many times that's where the exposure therapy comes into play we just face it like i tell the story about the thing i had about going to hell and i just faced it okay so whatever so if i'm going if i'm going to hell then i'm going to worship god for eternity in hell i just faced it we have we have we have a lot of fears of certain thoughts and sometimes just facing it and the anxiety rises up but we don't give into the compulsion arguing with it feeding it we gently move into a new direction while the anxieties we're facing it not running from you anymore no running from this thought anymore and and and and for many your your anxiety takes practice so um you know that doesn't turn into a mental argument if you're arguing you're not firing the interpreter you're fired yeah but what if oh yeah you're gonna when you turn it's like breaking up with a really bad you know like like when a woman breaks up with a really bad boyfriend right it's hard isn't it it's not just get out you think get out i don't want to speak to you ever again that's just the first step then it's like he texts you and goes baby i'm so sorry baby and you gotta ignore the text because a day later you'd be like oh well maybe i should go back with him same thing with those maybe i should check my salvation maybe i should maybe i said and you re-hire the interpreter and he's like no no no no no no no no no so um hard to just overlook thinking and really feeling like something is wrong and unsettled yes so you're literally describing what i'm putting up on the slide perfectionism it doesn't feel just right so there's your start does that feel just right i don't feel just right and then unfortunately certain teachings and preachings like if you were to die today and you're not a hundred percent certain that you would go to heaven in eternity with god then you need to raise your hand kind of like you know plays on that uncertainty and it programs us to always pay attention to uncertainty you always pay attention to uncertainty on until we fire the interpreter and say no now i don't know the new interpretation but i'm learning and i gotta learn it all i know is that that's not the interpretation i want to believe and so when i for example when i would be in a relationship and it would get committed this massive panic attack level anxiety would come over me i felt like i was gonna throw up i felt like i was gonna hyperventilate i could barely function it was so intense when i fired the interpreter it's this anxiety no longer means i need to get out of the relationship so i'm firing that interpretation so it would come in many different ways it would arrive in more different ways in different language and i'd eventually come to the point where i realized this is where i talk about you know you come to your senses you sober up and go this is not this is not a fruitful pathway so i'm no longer serving it took me much time though to live in the new pathway and i had to work through resistance and feeling that anxiety but i faced it and faced it and faced it and faced it and exposed it for what it was big honking lie something is wrong and unsettled and for me my focus goes to unsettled over my standing with god being his child and being a believer of what jesus did right so you feel anxiety the interpretation goes you feel anxious because you're not a child of god that's that's where i'm saying fire the interpreter how about you just feeling anxious because you're just anxious and you're working through anxiety and god's working with you and healing you and you're probably anxious for other reasons you think it's that because when we feel anxiety we look for meaning of it what is the meaning of it what is the meaning of it and you need to learn a greater depth of what anxiety has meant for you in your life your journey what love means what's love mean like do you not experience unconditional love that casts out fear the bible gives you your remedy it doesn't say he who fears is not saved enough it says hew fears needs perfect perfect repenting no perfect love which is from the father he has perfect love for you and so that's the key of learning so i got a few more minutes going to look at oh advice from my spouse is ocd my spouse is ocd good one my husband and i have grown to love your podcast and content that you share thank you very much it has helped both of us in our personal healing journeys furthermore my husband has ocd similar to how mark struggled in the past our question is what advice do you have for the spouse who doesn't have ocd and vice versa the spouse who does have it and how can we walk together in this in a healthy and beneficial way thank you and i think there's another question that came in to that says hi i am the wife of so-and-so who has ocd you give me a name maybe it's in one of the questions a lot of times i cross out the names because i don't mention them give people anonymous ability so i may not remember who you're talking about but that's okay could you do a talk on how the spouse can get some relief in all this craziness thank you for all your help and what you share with others your wonderful blessings that's awesome wonderful thank you so very much i'm glad i can be a blessing so i'm gonna talk about one spouse has ocd one spouse doesn't so the spouse who doesn't what i'm gonna recommend is that you're gonna need to get to know this battleground a little bit to understand what this person really needs i run into a lot of couples where the other couple's like yeah i don't really struggle with that so i don't get this person and i think it creates a wedge it creates a separation and i think that in any battle god would call us as couples to come together understand each other understand our weaknesses understand where we battle we can compassionately come together with love have each other's backs but also that we we speak honestly and the truth with each other and i think my wife and i have a very strong conviction that most of the majority of our marital problems come down to our brokenness not getting addressed and our need to be honest in truth and in love with each other to be able to speak to issues lovingly compassionately but yet truthfully and i think that's the beauty of who god is and what jesus brought about jesus was not like love with no addressing of issues it was absolute love and addressing issues and we're not going to remove love we're not going to dilute love love needs to increase and honest discussions need to be happening and good timing and we're going to grow together i'm going to grow and working on my stuff you're going to grow working on your stuff so there's one part of being compassionate and being understanding there are points in time too though where the spouse may need to look at their you know this lady who's writing this your husband we may have to look at him and go hey knock it off hey you're spinning over here i'm talking you're not listening to me there are moments where people with ocd need a sober call and there are moments my wife expressed that to me there's times i've expressed that to her and it awakened new level of growth because we received it because it caused us to be sober how does it how does a an alcoholic or a drug addict or some kind of addict get free they have to get sober to their life and what it means that their life matters and it impacts other people like when people have an intervention with somebody they go you need to deal with this because it's affecting all of us and sobriety is my life matters and my life affects other people so ocd isn't about everyone i need everyone to adjust because i'm ocd i'd appreciate it if you have some patience with me in it if you don't that's okay but i also need to know that my life impacts you so it's wisdom and knowing the difference and the there's not a perfect rule there's it's wisdom there's times you be compassionate you're spinning out to the right it's all right my wife i've been that to each other it's like hey i'm spinning about this thing that's all right it's all right you know take your piece work through it okay but there's other times just like hey knock it off we need both we do and because of our damage i talked about this yesterday in in chastening we don't understand the discipline of the lord we see it as going to hell punishing us beating us so therefore when god speaks as a father to his children and if you don't have that experience of fathering you have no clue how god's operating with you and so yeah he totally receives you and loves you that's what that covenant did for you receive as a child but now you have to grow as a child and i had to learn how to put childish things away when we enter into marriage there's a lot of stuff that's childish in us the god needs to burn out and how does he burn it out the friction that comes about in our marriages and what we want to do is we want to avoid any arguments and then we're just like we're just like thin icing each other you know we don't want to be on thin ice and then we develop a a long list of don't go their subjects and all these things and we're just trying to just we're just trying to make it through without any tension that's not that's not what god's calling us to that friction is meant for each of us both of us not just one both of us to go how can we grow in this so to the one without ocd you recognize how can i grow in patience and kindness but how can i also grow in wisdom and speaking the truth honestly where it's like hey i know you're spinning but you also need to you also need to wake up to you can't just you can't just it's one thing to be spinning you can't just every time allow yourself to just go with it so if you have a spin out and you you walk out of the room go in the door and start crying on the floor at some point you can't do that anymore that's the thing i talk about where i illustrated yesterday about where if an argument with my wife i'd walk out the door get in the car and drive away and one day i had this prompting you can't do it anymore it's time to grow up i've got it i've got to activate a new pattern now it's frightening to do the new pattern it's frightening to leave your compulsion and go into a new it's frightening yeah sure is and that's where god does his chastening work with us chasing is not him like beating you up it's i'm not rescuing you from this i'm going to walk with you through it because it's going to refine you it's going to refine you in these areas and and we we with our distortions we miss the heart of what god's saying because god says in that chastening you learn to be sons you learn what it really means my children will not grow up to be fruitful simply because i loved them in love i equip them and it's through discipline it's through activation it's through being with them walking through with them thing that's who god is as a father he's not he's not far away and he's also not just rescuing you out of problems he's not he's not trying to make your life just really comfortable yeah it's uncomfortable when you feel anxiety all the time yep and i've learned stuff in it i never would have learned otherwise i've gone through so many different seasons of emotional pain different mental health battles physical pain physical health issues relationship pain financial and in that god's like i'm going to walk with you through it and you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna rise up in many ways it's like the process peter went through or peter's like man i'm with you jesus and he's like you're gonna deny me never i'll never do you're you're gonna but just just know there's some stuff coming against you satan's gonna sift you and jesus said i'm gonna pray that your faith won't fail you see we don't we don't connect to that we go god get me out of this all our prayers are god rescue me prayers let's tune in to what jesus jesus is actually praying things about us right we're also to pray in the name of jesus to the father jesus said jesus said don't pray the f i'm not going to pray the father for you i'm praying jesus is interceding to the father but he's not carrying your prayer responsibility for you he's adding on to what you are already praying okay which is amazing that my prayer has back up as i'm going to the father in jesus name jesus is going to the father the holy spirit has groanings and utterings that it's amazing right but he says i pray that your faith won't fail you in in what he's what to maybe give it a modern translation i pray that in the end you're going to rise up you're just going to stick with it stick with it for many of you that are getting insights and you're getting some blessings the answer for you is just stick with it yeah but i've been for so what i've been doing with this for 40 years yeah maybe it took 40 years do you know how much leverage and and and weight it would have for somebody who experiences some freedom and says looks at people in the eye and says i struggle with this for 40 years that kind of message deserves everybody zip it and listen to what they have to offer and say how long it takes through some of these journeys so with couples it's a it's a balance it's a real balance of loving acceptance hey it's okay that you're not okay but you also have to be sober to the patterns that you fall into you can't just escape no you can't just follow your compulsion nope you can't just keep going to that website nope you can't keep researching nope it affects our marriage and then time to make a decision you know how we can approach this so that that's my feedback i'm sure my wife could give him more on that too she's great at that kind of stuff but um let me go i got i got two more i got time for two more and then i'm gonna lay on this plane i have this one's about being a highly sensitive person i have faithfully listened to your podcast for about a year or so and especially grateful for your ocd help it has seriously changed my life awesome thank you thanks to you melissa for what you do and helping others so graciously i have ocd but i'm also a highly sensitive person by the way a lot of people with ocd are very very sensitive emotionally for sure for sure it's very rare that i don't meet someone with ocd that's not highly sensitive i've searched for christian resources on this subject but i have not found any it is definitely something that impacts me on a daily basis any words of wisdom with someone coping with a hsp would love some feedback or even a podcast just on this much needed topic that doesn't get too much attention in christian circles yeah i dedicate a chapter to that you can um what's the actual title give me just a second the heart healing journey i get into this and what chapter number looking for the number it's towards the end chapter 26 living powerfully with a sensitive heart boom right there i'd recommend going through that and then i also have i have a i have a volume one training course and a volume two i believe this talk i go into in greater depth on the video training course so i recommend go through the heart healing journey but you can just go right into that chapter that book is written in such a way where um you can jump into any chapter any spot where you can read it all the way through so that's what i recommend but that is an aspect of the ocd journey is sensitivity you have sensitivity that's been hijacked and what god does in his healing work is bringing about unconditional love and it grounds your sensitivity so we're not like removing your sensitivity because it can make you very empathetic it can make you very compassionate but then fear and guilt get in the way and scramble the wires right and then obsession and all that kind of stuff so the goal of the healing journey is love grounding you so hope that helps i got time for one more one more thanks for your resources it has really been helping me my ocd battle i'm currently in career change as i've been with my current employer for 10 years and will be moving to another company what tips do you have to help with the transition i would say first and foremost be kind to yourself it's a new new um a new opportunity a new chapter so don't be surprised if you have some days that you're just feeling uneasy or anxious or whatever it's like going to a new school like that first day of school it's a it's a new open door new new opportunity i don't know what you didn't write any particular battles you had about it but my greatest feedback is be kind and compassionate towards yourself that opens us up you know we talked earlier about firing the interpreter in finding the new interpretation it starts with self-compassion it starts with all right it's okay that i'm not okay right now it's it's this will take as long as it takes what does love say right now and i use that language what does love say if you notice i didn't say what does god say because right now with distortions what does god say i'm triggering your god image that's got a lot of distortions as you've read through many of the the questions i have today god is love so we're going to learn what love is and that's who he is fully okay so that i'll learn to hear from him because he's relational he's a father and i'm a son or you're a son or your daughter and he's raising you up in sonship and so a good father knows how to raise his kids a good father doesn't just beat his kids you know a good father is relational even in discipline he uses his words to empower he speaks in ways that sharpen but raise up empower add life when you interact with a good father you walk away from it better every time that's who our god is so it's learning that learning his kindness is moving to us it's by his kindness on change you're not changed by trying to fix yourself ocd suffers you're not going to get anywhere trying to fix yourself it's just kindness be kind to yourself the kindness will open you up to the interpretation of what you need to see and where you are open you have to learn but you'll have to decide there's some tough messages i've gave today i see um i know there's been a lot of comments and commentary um yes i think that's where i'm gonna leave it today and uh like i said if this has been a blessing to your life and your journey i i've enjoyed working through these questions and and we're going to do some more question episodes a lot of them were ocd at like i said i encourage you take in all the resources because you don't want to just be narrowly focusing on just ocd work let let yourself gain the root system of your life in your journey and so i love talking about the whole healing journey and the whole process because that's very very beneficial but look forward to seeing you all next time going to be more materials more stuff more good stuff coming out and uh look forward to it being a blessing to your life and to your journey be loved more than anything else be loved today be encouraged there's hope for you to experience more healing and freedom so go step out and just put it to work put it to action see you guys [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] you

Channel: Mark DeJesus

Views: 524

Rating: 4.8461537 out of 5

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Id: 8HkljzM8Ls0

Length: 110min 50sec (6650 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 21 2021