Hello, we're here with co-ceos of Gensler Andy Cohen and Diane Hoskins Diane is also a board member and Anderson alum thank you for being here and This is a unique arrangement this co-ceo thing and it sounds like you went from one Founder to a situation of three co-ceos and now two so talk about how this all evolved No. All right. Well, let's let's dive in It sounded far more complicated that it really was so, you know And by the way, it's great to be here and have this wonderful conversation with you guys We really and the firm is I guess we're 50 something years old when the firm was around 40 years old Our founder turned 70 and he decided you know what? I'm gonna start the transition And by the way, he's 84 and still isn't transitioned So it's you know But the day to day he wanted to transition to the next generation and I think he made a really good decision Along with our Board of Directors and and I know he counseled with a lot of outside folks too that it was like Don't try to replace yourself. Don't look for that person who's exactly like you think about the future of the firm think about things differently shake it up do something totally different and You know and our board was part of that conversation as well And and so you know, he floated the idea To each of us and we had all worked in the firm for you know, 10 plus years together It was like a horse that would be amazing. It would be fun. It would be incredible. So you know, it's it's it's been great and we've been doing this for about 14 years now and Really? I think the firm and when we look at we've tripled the size of the firm in that time. We're a billion more In revenue, I I think it really unlocks something for us to have that kind of model you Know we're really about collaborative leadership and so we have grown for over the last 14 years who grew from about 2,000 people to close to 6,000 people now and We practicing in 14 countries. We worked in over a hundred countries last year So for us and our firm, it's about collaborative leadership teams in most cases so we usually have whether it's office or practice area to leaders and We really believe in that collaborative leadership. Usually it's a team that has different focuses But together we believe one plus one equals five and that narrative that goes along with that of collaborative leadership starts at the top so we believed after the founder mentality to transition to the collaborative leadership mentality really made a lot of sense and and it and it emanates through our culture throughout the firm this idea of collaboration that design is about Collaboration and you know, we focus a lot on research around the world and it's always about collaborative teams working together But you're two different individuals you bring different backgrounds different experiences Like all of us whip to different people you're teaching a class we agree we disagree but Sometimes a decision has to be made and you think it's a and you think it's big so how do you resolve that you absolutely? Feel it's a and you absolutely feel it's big What is your process for resolving that conflict even if it's in a small little corner of a room together? How do you resolve that? Why I tell you this how we do it it is amazing I mean We have Diana and I have been working together for 23 years and we have this incredible trust and respect for each other We actually finish each other's sentences and like you said Peter we are very different individuals with very different backgrounds But together we have so much respect for each other we bounce ideas off of each other constantly and when we're faced with a decision, usually we're deferring to one another and saying You know what you well let's go with your idea on this one or let's go with my idea on this one usually around You know what? We believe in that situation But we I would say 98% of the time Usually were thinking a lot of like from different perspectives, but a lot of like and when it comes down to that final moment we'll defer to each other literally at the same time what you That one I have that one. We had that much trust and respected each other. Yeah, I you know, honestly It really is by working together a lot that we understand the others point of view and You're right. I mean you got to make a decision at some point and sometimes it's you know You want to do X I want to do Y Sometimes it does come down to how strongly one of us really feels it should be one direction or the other and you know, if it's Deferring to something, you know and more where Andy would like to take it Usually if I feel like you know what I think that's a great idea I'm like, let's go for it or he'll feel the same way. Look if you really think it should be that way Let's do it I'm not seeing the same thing you're seeing but I know you know what you're doing and And that's where we go with it and outside of the room and the decisions made. It's always your decision that you never say Oh, I didn't agree with it right you once you make that decision There's no division of who made that decision. We are one. Yeah, we are really one team. That's the key it is the key. Yeah complete trust and how Do others know who does what? Whether others are the employees or the board who's responsible for what it can't be that you both do everything There are parts Where will we we used to and we kind of you know, do it much more loosely now But when we first were doing this we had what we called the on point chart who's on point for each thing so that we could do a lot more Devine conquer and people would know and you know then two years later, we would literally rotate every single thing on that chart to the other person and literally deliberately and Even how we present you kicked off last time. I kick off this time you close last time. I close this time. We literally Track to make sure that we're kind of doing Different things because also it keeps it interesting that you're not doing the same things And also we want to make sure that people who are working with us don't see it as oh and you'll always does this and Diane always does that and doesn't Understand it's both of us having you know, I understand that in a business way, but I don't know you're in a creative business I mean truly creative business. That's my business at some point you're both sitting in the room, and I'm the client or somebody else is a client and it says we think we should have 30,000 seats So we think we should build four buildings and looking at you you say I think we should build for building you say Yeah, it should be 30,000 seats. Ha ha. How do you reconcile that in the room with the client? We don't do the client. We don't do it along with clients usually on one Another yeah, we don't do it for the Hanson PC. I'm a Los Angeles, you know, we're travelling around the world So it I'll just say one other thing It's we call it the one firm firm culture and our culture is about having an integrated seamless practice around the world because so many clients like you Peter coming to us for multiple projects in multiple cities and you demand seamless service and so Us being seen was extremely important to the organization and to our clients to know that there's this integrated approach You know that you can pick up the phone or email around the world and you're gonna get that response in any one city So we really feel like we're the foundation for that culture. It's just so vital if we ever separate each other It can really hurt the organization. So let me just ask one other thing It is the title of chairman rotate Yes It does it does actually Andy was chairman the last three years I'm chairman now for the next you know, two and a half more years Someone else will be chairman after that that you know as a whole, you know succession of different individuals who will play the role of chairman of our board So yes that rotates. We haven't we have an operating board Yes, so it's not we have board advisors, but we have an operating board so we wrote our Executive Committee, which is five people well as Rotated over the years every three years. You have a founder art Ken's Lihue. I know I started with 30 years ago I was a client of his Sony and theaters and Lowe's and yeah And and it seemed to me that art was the patriarch of the of the organization can can you really? deal with clients with to multiple leaders or do you have to say you're in charge of the project in Berlin and That you may seek your advice or your enjoy it and you may see cos up But ultimately you're the one that's going to make the call Is that the way it works the way our firm works is that there's a principle in charge of that project we have you know 270 principles in our firm they are the final say and We support them I got you and so in that way every single client has someone who's making decisions and able to leverage Anything about our firm and it who is accountable we also divide and conquer - I mean we'll say well taking on a certain assignment and I'm on point on that assignment whether it's A client or a practice area or research that I'm on point and we constantly are exchanging ideas that someone's one of us is on point or Frankly dealing with meet remedial issues in the firm that one of us is on point. We don't double-team along things So I have another totally different question and it's it's it's a softball to you guys But it's interesting and that is how do you build culture through space? Design through spatial design and and I know that is something that you could go on for an hour but in a nutshell How because we were talking about managing up and across how do you create those relationships? through spatial design Well, you know, this is such an important topic right now because you know, we're all familiar with co-working and dispersing people out there outside of let's say a headquarters or space that's you know controlled by by an organization and you know There's there's reasons for and a purpose for those kinds of spaces But one of the things that are the organizations we work with are are so laser focused on is that building of the culture building of the brand Creating that that total engagement with people that work there. And so, you know, how does the space do that? It's everything from having those kind of places where people can meet and come together thinking about the space as a community and Those kinds of places that really do kind of feed the the community places where you know the coffee area the places where people meet those those larger spaces where you have gatherings the the kind of places where people walk and serendipitously You know run into each other and even from the design itself reflecting the values and the brand of the organization and you know We're seeing so many clients who had you know dispersed Workforces asked, you know trying to bring people back in investing significant dollars To really create those places that are not only going to draw people in but help people to innovate which we know happens more when people are together and you know that collaboration that's essential for that kind of innovation and even the clients being in this space as well as part of that brand community and and you know what that corporate culture is all about the space plays a key role and You know again, it's it's kind of a place right now, and there's a lot of conversations There was a great article in The Wall Street Journal and some of our folks were were quoted, you know, the workplace is actually one of the most interesting places of disruption right now and You know again because we have so much experience in that area. It's really important for us to have a voice and helping to drive solutions that really are going to build Organizations, I think Diane hit it on the head and we're focused a lot right now on experiential design In fact, a lot of our research is around what creates great places and spaces whether it's in the workplace, or stadium or any type of mixed-use project It really is about the brand of the organization the brand of client and that culture coming through like Diane said our clients are coming to us over and over again for a differentiated competitive advantage for Innovation and how people can innovate in these places and so it really is the essence of an organization we say over and over again space and place matters that innovation matters in these kind of environments I Have one last question you're in a creative business you're in I don't wanna say showbiz but a creative business you creating a product a physical product that people have emotions around that people are going to want to be drawn to or stay away from that Ultimately when you have that, how do you build a collaborative creative? Workforce in your organization. I said vertically integrated is it horizontally integrated? How do you do that to to get the best creative decision? It's not a compromise on every issue because that is not that's that's a Rube Goldberg It ends up with how do you keep that singular view in an organization your size and a project Well it all starts with a vision Right and our vision is to create a better world through the power design and you know each every 10 years we come up with A vision for our firm and our people. Oh laser focus and making a difference in the world And so first foremost it's that at the top that strategic vision then we have Specific groups of people focused on different areas of innovation whether it's areas of practice Like I said office stadiums mixed-use projects law firms areas of practice client relationships focused on laser focus on our clients and Relationships and another one is design and does not what we call design synergy was about the visceral experiences that were creating for our clients and so you know these area and then the last piece is our Geographic reach that we're having and making sure we're embedded in that local culture So at the end of the day this mix of town this mix of innovation coming from different perspectives One thing we haven't talked about is diversity and how important that isn't in the workplace today and our firm is diverse We have speak hundreds of languages You know different cult coming from different cultures and we believe that innovation happens when you bring people from different perspectives together not homogenized decisions, but two perspectives together and that's what creates those innovative projects that you know, we believe our making benchmarks around the world we have to end and we thank you for The the span of interesting issues that you talked about both leadership and design so thank you both for being here Thank you. Appreciate a lengthy a great conversation
