(funky upbeat music) - [Narrator] This is "The
Rich Dad Radio Show." The good news and bad news about money. Here's Robert Kiyosaki. - Hello, hello, hello. This is Robert Kiyosaki of
"The Rich Dad Radio Show." The good news and bad news about money. And we always broadcast from
beautiful downtown Scottsdale whether heaven or hell and
right now it's hell, it's hot. But anyway a very special show. Every time we play that song
"I Can See Clearly Now," this is about something that's
gonna happen in the future. And I'm very excited, very happy. I mean Kim and I are very happy, a very special guest in-studio today. It's somebody I look up
to, one of my mentors, person I study and read. It's Jim Rickards. I first read his book "Currency Wars" and that just blew me away. 'Cause you know, the
definition of intelligence, if I agree with Jim he's intelligent. If I disagree he's not intelligent. But he's very, very intelligent. And the thing I like
about working with him is our ability to see the future. And I'm happy to announce,
you guys are the first the very first to hear this. Jim and I are coming out next year, it's our book called "The Ravens" and you can see our raven over here. And this will be out 2020 right? - That's right. - Any comments on Jim, Kim? And his impact on our lives.
- If you could. Yes, big impact on our lives. And I you could see as a listener, if you could see Robert's book, the "Currency Wars" was the same and now Jim's latest book's coming out in July, called "Aftermath." And Robert has it tabbed up
one side and down another, so when he says he studies Jim Rickards, he studies Jim Rickards. - And not only do I study it, and I thank you, he gave, you shipped to me early in January. So I tore through this thing
and now it's an Audible. So what I do is I read the book and then I listen to it on Audible. And the impact on my knowledge is quantum. So anyway thank you for this book, it comes out next month right? - Yeah, it comes out in July. And what is important about "Aftermath" is and you say it here is that, "It's what smart investors can
do to protect their assets." When we're going to hear
about what's coming from Jim, so welcome Jim. - And what's coming from
us it's called "The Raven" (laughter) - Thank you Robert thank you Kim it's great to be with both of you. And you're right the book "Aftermath" is coming out July 23rd. So pretty soon and one
of the points I make is first of all it has a lot of what we call predictive analytics and
not to get too technical but it's just the ability
to forecast accurately. And it's amazing you look at the finest institutions in the world with the greatest economic PhD's, I'm talking about the FED, the IMF and other institutions, their forecasting record is abysmal. Just go back cause they're always coming
out with new forecasts say, "Oh here's what's gonna happen." Go back over a 10 year period and look at their old forecasts from 2009, 2010, 2011. Look at what actually happened. They're not even close. If you said GDP is going to be 3.1% and it came out at three, I would say, "Nice going
that's pretty close." but they'll say 3.1 it'll come out at 1.4 which is a huge gap big order of magnitude. So when you say, when the top institutions
with the greatest resources and the most PhD's, cannot get the forecasting correct and they can't, why even try, why give up? And my answer is, It's not it a lack of resources, it's not a lack of brain power. You've got the wrong models. - [Robert] Correct. - And if you have the wrong model, you're going to get the
wrong result every time. so then the question is-- - And that's why they can't figure it out. - Correct. And they're not dumb, they're not ill intentioned. They don't lack resources, they've just got the wrong models. But what that means, is that if you can
discover the right models you can bring your
forecasting record way up. And that's what we've been doing, that's what we've talked about yeah. - And so this book "Aftermath," and it's just fantastic. You go into things that like I said, it's your I think it's
your best book ever. - [Jim] Thank you. - But all the other books were
the best book at that time. And I think I'm getting
smarter the more books I read. So one of the things on predicting because that's what "The Ravens" is about, is how the raven was a bird of prophecy. And you wrote about Felix Summary, "The Raven of Zurich" would you mind quickly
going into Felix Summary, "The Raven of Zurich" but also, Bayesian economic forecasting
versus what the FED uses. - Sure. Well, you're absolutely right Robert that the raven is a symbol
of prophecy and prediction, this goes back to antiquity. It was true in ancient Greece and Rome and of course we have of many examples, Edgar Allan Poe's poem The Raven, was an omen so it's very
much of an omener's sign of the future. Felix Summary would say, he actually went the University of Vienna. He was a trained Austrian
School Economist there. His Professor was Karl Manger, the founder of Austrian economics so he was very much in
the thick of that group, along with Joseph Schumpeter and others Feder Kayak and others. - Can I say one thing? There's difference between
an Austrian economist and an American economist right? Or Keynesian economist.
- Correct. They're of schools of economic thought, and the Austrian economics
school says kind of there's no free lunch. If you print money, it's gonna find this
way and into inflation now whether that's price, price increases for consumer
goods is one measure but it can also be an asset inflation. And that's one of the things
we've seen the last 10 years there has not been much
consumer inflation, a little bit but not a lot but there's been a lot of asset
inflation of stock market, real estate and other other asset classes. - Just a matter of point but
wasn't Greenspan Austrian and then he flipped to Keynesian? - Greenspan was Austrian before
he was chairman of the FED then he flipped to a
sort of a swamp creature for the time here (laugher) for the years he was at the FED. But what is interesting about Greenspan, is after you left the FED he went right back to talking about gold in a very positive way. And gold is money. And it's the most sound form money and if we had some kind of gold standard, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today with the debt-to-GDP ratio. But if you look at
Greenspan's record carefully, I think it is Chairman of the FED, you just can't talk about gold. It would just sort of turn
everything upside down. But in my view, Greenspan ran a shadow gold standard. He was chairman from 1987 to about 2007, give or take I could
be off a year two there but after Paul Walker left. But if you look at the price
of gold over that period, it didn't do very much until the end. We had the super spike in January 1980, gold was $800 an ounce, which by the way, in real terms today would be over well over $2,000 an ounce, and we had a huge bull
market from 2000 to 2013. - Right, 2000 gold was about $250 an ounce and today it's about $1,300 an ounce. - Right.
- That's a huge jump. - That's a huge jump but along the way, it got to $1,900 an ounce
and then crashed 50% and now we're in a new bull market. The new bull market
started in December 2015. - This is gold. - Gold right. Gold's been going up since then. But you don't get to new highs without a bear market along the way. I talked to Jim Rogers
I'm sure you know him. Yeah he said look, "No commodity goes to the moon "without a 50% correction along the way. "You just have to brace
yourself for that." So right, starting a 1999 or 2000, at $299 an ounce give or take. It goes to $1,900 backs down to $1,050, $1050 was the low in December 2015. - So a 50% retrace. - 50% retrace exactly from the $299 base, and then today back up about 30%. Not quite to the $1,300 now $1,350 level. So that's behaving exactly
as Jim Rogers predicted. As every commodity bull market does, there's a retracement one way. But we've had that. That's behind us. We're now in a new bull market but going back to the 80s and 90s, what did gold do? It traded in the range, it went sideways. It came off the $800 high
that was for about a minute but it traded sort of
between $250 and $450 but it stayed there. It never went back up to six, 700. But it never went down
to a hundred either. Greenspan was running
a shadow gold standard. He didn't say it. It wasn't legal. When I say that, it wasn't legally binding and I'm not saying there was
anything illegal about it. But he looked at gold
and used it as guidance. The same way you're driving down the road, you're looking at a red lights,
green lights and stop signs. He looked at gold and he
kept it in that range. So as far I'm concerned, Greenspan did want to gold standard. He just didn't tell anybody. - Right. The reason gold is important, because it's kind of an indicator of what's going on inside the economy and what the FED is doing, which can, there's a relationship between
gold and the economy right? - Sure. And I think of gold as money. I mean people say it's a commodity, oh okay. I understand you dig
it up out of the ground and it's traded on commodities markets. I understand all that but
it's not really a commodity. The definition of a commodity is a generic or standardized
input to something else. So copper goes into
wires and construction. Oil goes into energy. Coal, same thing. Aluminum goes into in a
building all kinds of things. So all these things are commodities. Oil it is another one. But gold actually isn't good for anything. It's the best form of money but it's not good for anything else. Now people say, "Well
I have gold jewelry." Okay. It's just wealth. Gold jewelry is wealth storage. Just look at an Indian bride, she's got to gold chains. Well and it's kinda pretty looking but that's not the point. That's her dowry. That's her down payment on a house. That's her children's education. That's something say she
passes along to her family. So it is stored as wealth. So it is performing a monetary function even when it's in the form of jewelry. Beyond that I don't know there's some five, nine specialized wires for space satellite. Coating a space helmet. But they're trivial. - So the question then. So the price of gold is going up, what does it mean to Jim Rickards? - Well what I would say yeah, when the price goes up I would say that what's really happening is
the dollar is going down. In other words, I think of gold by weight. I'm interested, do you have a ton? Do you have 50 kilos? Do you have five ounces? Whatever you have as
an individual investor, as a bank, I think of it by weight. 'Cause when someone says
gold's really going up, I said well no the dollar's going down. You need more dollars to purchase
a fixed quantity of gold, which means the dollar's worth less. Now when people say, "gold's really going down!" I said, "no the dollar's worth more." You need fewer dollars to
purchase a quantity of gold. In other words, when people talk about price the first thing they do is, they're really talking about dollars. I mean there's a Euro price for gold but the World Market is based on dollars. You're privileging the
dollars as the numeraire. The numeraire's your counting system. Yards, inches, feet whatever. And if you put the dollar first and say gold is in dollars
and it's going up or down, I think you have it backwards. I think you need to put golf first by weight and then if it's worth more, the dollar is going down. If it's worth less, the dollar's going up. What's special about the dollar? Well the dollar is in fact very special in the International monetary system because we don't have a gold standard but that's sort of putting
the cart before the horse. Gold is your yardstick. It's your anchor. - So let me get back to
something you said earlier Jim. You talked about the FED
doesn't have the right model. So they're not making the decisions are not-- - Predicted model.
- Yes. What do you see coming? That their not doing? What do they need to be doing? - Okay the thing their
doing now that is just does not reflect reality, they're called equilibrium models. Not to get too technical
but these dynamics, they're casting equilibrium models. Well sorry, the system, the economy is not an equilibrium system. Equilibrium means there's some balance. There's some perfect Nirvana, monetary policy, fiscal policy, real-growth inflation. You can kind of take all
these variables and say, okay, we're the FED. The economy really can't
grow more than about 3.5% and that's probably correct
for a mature economy, unless you're coming out of recession. It goes in accordance with
money, supply, velocities. Velocity's kind of the turn over. So I like to say, if I leave Phoenix or Scottsdale and I get a taxi cab and I pay the fare and the text driver gasoline is tank and the gas station owner
buys a present for his wife, that has velocity of three. My dollar was used for
$3 of goods and services. But if I stay home and watch TV, the velocity is zero 'cause I'm not spending the money. So you can't just look at money supply. This is the biggest problem
with it with a monetarist. They equate everything with how the quantity of money. But that's not enough. You have to say what's the quantity of
money times the turnover? How quickly is it turning over? And they always assume
that velocity is constant, which it's not. So there are all these false assumptions or incorrect assumptions behind the models and therefore you get
these incorrect results. Everyone said, going back to 2008 when they started QE. They said, "Oh the FED
printed four trillion dollars "we're going to get
this massive inflation." Well it never happened. They printed the money but
we never got the inflation. Why not? It's because velocity declined. In other words, yeah there was more money
around but nobody was using it. Nobody was lending it. Nobody was spending it. Nobody was borrowing it. Velocity actually declined so the FED in a way, was in a desperate race
increasing the money supply as velocity was declining just to stay even. So then what drives velocity? The answer is psychology. If you're in a good mood
and you go to the restaurant and you buy drinks for
everyone at the bar, and expensive gifts. You take a trip or whatever. Or you just do something
more sober like investing, that will increase velocity. But if you're concerned. If you're cautious, say I'm going to put my money in the bank I'm going to stick it under a mattress. I'm not going to spend it. - Which a lot of people are today. - Correct, which a lot pf people are today. - During the 2008, there was one newsletter or
writer and his whole indicator, he lived in La Jolla, very famous guy and he went
by the restaurant indicator. He says that people were
not in the restaurants, they were terrified. - Right. That's a good proxy for velocity because it means that people
weren't spending money. So when you factor in velocity, okay now we don't have a classic
monetarist model anymore. What do we have? We have a behavioral model. We have a psychological model. So then you've got to
get into the psychology. I actually I don't have very
many good things to say about modern Keynesian economists
but I like John Maynard Keynes because he wasn't the doctrinaire person that he is presented as today. He actually-- - His main doctrine was? - Well he was, Keynesian economics it's named after him, which is that when you're
in a recession or depression and people aren't spending, the government can go
spend the money for them and that'll get what he call the animal spirits going and then the economy will grow. But Keynes was above all a pragmatist. He was not an ideologue. And he did write these books
and they had some math in them and they kind of worked
along those lines but that was his solution to a very severe recession and depression in
the late 1920s and early 1930s. Well it wasn't a bad idea
for the economy back then. The problem is that it's
been taken as an all-purpose all-time remedy to everything, and what government doesn't
like to spend more money if they can? And just to kind of tie it back to gold in 1914 when World War I started, all the major powers went
off the gold standard. They said, "We've gotta keep our gold. "This is real money "and this is how we're gonna win the war." And the Bank of England was faced and the exchequer was
faced with the same choice. Keynes was an advisor to the exchequer. He said, "Don't go off the gold standard, "stay on the gold standard." And the reason was that if you did that, you would preserve your
reputation preserve your credit. He said the war's not gonna
be won with money or gold, is gonna be one with credit. But if you stay on the gold
standard you'll have the credit. And that's exactly what happened. Pierpont Morgan, sorry
Jack Morgan, Pierpont's son organized huge loans
for England and France. And nothing for Germany. And England won the war. So the point is Keynes got that right. Now flash forward, 1925 he's talking to Churchill and Churchill wants to go
back to the gold standard. And Keynes is telling him, you got the price on you we
can't go back at four pounds 25 or whatever the exact rate was. We've gotta devalue the sterling by half cause we doubled the money
supply to fight the war. Churchill ignored Keynes' advice and they went into recession depression before the rest of the world. Flash forward 1944, you're Breton Woods, Keynes wanted a gold standard. And this isn't speculation. He wrote papers. He gave formal presentations. So 1914 is pro-gold, 1925 he's telling Churchill you're nuts, you can't go back to a gold
standard at this price, 1944 he's pro gold again. I call that a pragmatist,
not an ideologue. - Right, he changed his mind. - He changed his mind
because conditions changed. And we need more of that today
instead of these ideologues. - Once again Robert
Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Radio Show we have a very special
guest today in studio. It's Jim Rickards, his brand new book is called "Aftermath: The Seven Secrets
of Wealth Preservation "in the Coming Chaos." So when we come back we'll be
going more into Jim's new book on wealth preservation, but also we'll pick up the discussion on why the top economists
in the world at the FED, I think there's a thousand of them. They all went to MIT or
Harvard or Yale or Stanford and they still can't get it right. So Jim's gonna talk about, again our newest book coming out next year is called "The Ravens" and Jim uses Felix Summary's process, it's called Bayesian forecasting. Bayesian economics. And how you can get it more accurate than what the FED is using. So when we come back, our whole purpose here is to have you better be able to see the future and protect yourself from
the idiots running the show (laugher) we'll be right. Welcome back! Robert Kiyosaki with "The
Rich Dad Radio Show", the good news and bad news about money. Once again you can listen to
"The Rich Dad" radio program anytime anywhere on iTunes or Android and all of our programs are
archived at RichDadRadio.com we archive it for one reason. It's because repetition is how we learn. So if you listen to this
program once or twice more you'll pick up 70% more who knows but also retain it longer. And most importantly if you have friends, family members or business associates who should know this information, please go to Rich Dad Radio, pull-up this podcast with Jim Rickards and listen to it together and discuss it and you'll find your brain power will accelerate quantumly, rather then just
listening to it passively. So once again our special
guest is Jim Rickards. He is talking about his
latest book is "Aftermath." I've got the early edition of it. As you guys can see on the television set, I do study, I do read. Everything is indexed and as soon as I got the Audible version, I'm going to listen to it because I learn more by
listening to Jim's voice talk about his book "Aftermath." And it's "The Seven Secrets
of Wealth Preservation "in the Coming Chaos." And comments Kim? - Well and Jim is also the
author of "Currency Wars" "The Death of Money" "The new Case for Gold" "The Road to Ruin" and this is the latest book
and I have not yet read it. I know I get it through Robert, bits and pieces but I know it what, I think a lot of people
want to know is aftermath. What do you see coming? - The last thing I would
shamelessly promote is Jim and I are co-authoring a book it's called "The Ravens"
it'll be out in 2020. It's about the raven, which is the bird of prophecy but more importantly
the purpose of the raven is to teach you how to see the future so you can prepare, and how
you can prosper from it. Instead of getting run over
with whatever's gonna happen. So Jim we were talkin' about
what you see come in the future but before I go into that, we talked about how the FED is using you call it the equilibrium model. - Right. - And you prefer the Bayesian model. Can you explain Bayesian
model forecasting? - Sure. Bayesian statistics is
a branch of statistics and the main branch of
statistics is called frequentist, frequent. And basically it says, give me more data. Data, data, data. The more data I have, the
better prediction I can make. - [Robert] And that's the FED. - That's the FED. And actually most academics. But that's exactly what the FED does. But what do you do when
you don't have any data? What do you do when you have to solve a life or death problem
and you only have maybe one data point instead of a million and this is a problem we
confronted the CIA after 9/11 which is we had one exactly one attack of this kind. Now a frequentist would say well okay, let's wait until they're 30 more attacks, and 100,000 dead and then we'll have a nice
database and we can work with it but you don't have that luxury these are life-or-death problems. These are existential problems. So what you do when you
don't have enough data you make an assumption anyway. You use intuition. You use the little data you have. If you actually say I
have nothing to go on, I have no idea what's going to happen, you make it 50-50. 50% chance this will
happen 50% chance it won't. But then as you go
forward more data comes in and you apply the data to the assumption on a conditional basis meaning what is the likelihood that
the second thing would happen if the first thing we're true? Or not true. And then you update. And so with the subsequent
data tends to confirm one part of the hypothesis
you increase that probability maybe go from 50 to 55 to 60 et cetera. Or you decrease it, and
this is the hard part because you have to be
willing to confront data that contradicts your hypothesis. If something comes in that says, "No, you were wrong the first time." You have to be honest and
lower those probabilities. And that's where a lot
of time it falls down because people, this is
called confirmation bias. You reject the thing
that disagrees with you and you accept the thing
that agrees with you well if you do that you're pretty
much going to be wrong so you have to be humble and you have to be able to take a data that contradicts what you're saying. But if it tends to confirm
what you're saying, then you increase the probability and our friend Felix Summary
we were talking about earlier he left the University of Vienna but instead of becoming
an academic economist he became a wealth manager and banker moved to Switzerland but
he was very plugged in. He ran the Central Bank of Belgium, he was considered the leading
expert on foreign exchange at the time and maybe
if he were alive today he still would be but so this is, picture of July 1914. It's weeks before World War I but until then people
looked around and said this is the most
prosperous time in history. The weather in Europe
was great that summer the British Empire was at it's height, prosperity seemed everywhere. The fact is Serbia and Austria
are having a little dustup didn't seem too significant. But somebody had his antenna out and he talked to a cousin
of the king of England who had just come back
from meting Kaiser Wilhelm who was the Emperor of Germany and the German Empire and the
other guy said to someone, "Well I've just come back from
meeting with my cousin Willie "and he says the odds of war
between England and Germany "are zero just not going to happen." But Summary had more than an instinct. He knew that often the
elites are the last to know. Everyone says if you're
rich, you're a billionaire, you're in the White House,
you're whatever it may be, Silicon Valley you know more than anybody. It's usually not true. They are rich, I'll give 'em that but and they're smart, I'm not detracting after that but they're predictive
ability is very low. And the reason is they're in a bubble. And if you're a billionaire and all you do is talk
to other billionaires in a couple clubs in
Silicon Valley or Washington and New York, you're actually not
going to learn anything 'cause it's just an echo chamber. You've got to get out and
kind of deal with real people in real situations in the summer-- - Is that the FED and
is that the government? - Kim, very good question
their all in a bubble. The FED's in a bubble,
the IMF's in a bubble. Silicon Valley billionaires
are in a bubble. I'm not saying their dumb
and they are rich but they just hang out with
other people like themselves. You're never going to learn
anything if that's what you do and so somebody applied this to this, relative of the King who
just met with a Kaiser he said you people are
all talking to each other you're not looking at the real world. He immediately sold all his
clients assets converted to gold moved the gold to Norway and
Switzerland and sat tight and when World War I was over everyone else is wiped out
and his clients were rich. So he basically he didn't take
the information at face value he said these are people who actually don't know what their talking about. So in the summer of 2016
before the 2016 election, I took a three-hour Greyhound bus from Spokane, Washington to
Moses Lake, Washington. Moses Lake is in the desert. They don't even have a bus stop. They drop you off at a truck
stop and get picked up. But I thought to myself-- - I can't imagine you on a Greyhound bus. - Well I was but my point is, I was thinking a couple things. How many of my peers in
New York or Washington or analysts, author's,
policymakers whatever take a Greyhound bus for
three hours in Washington? The answer is none. But when you're on a Greyhound Bus, you meet interesting people, you talk to the driver, talk to people at the truck stop. And one of the things I saw was not to be too political
but Trump signs everywhere. Now if you're ever been
involved in local politics it takes a lot of work to
get those yard signs out. You gotta get them, you gotta
plant it in your front yard and you gotta deal with all the criticism that comes along with it and I saw no Hillary signs. And I'm not making a partial
statement I'm just like hey, but if you're Bayesian going
back to the original point, that's data. If you have a hypothesis
it's 50-50 Hillary or Trump 'cause you just you just don't know. - So you don't want to use the polls then. - No, the polls were badly flawed but I actually I did use the
polls adjusted for flaws. And let me give you a concrete example, the polls skew they have to ask more
Democrats than Republicans. Well there actually are more
Democrats than Republicans but what should the skew be? It should be maybe 54-46. 55-45 if you want to push it but the actual polls were
skewed 56, 57% Democrats which is too much see they
were oversampling Democrats, number one. Number two within the over sample, they were oversampling African Americans well African Americans vote 90% Democratic so every African American
in the over sample actually weights is even more
in favor of the Democrats. Well when you do the math you find out that that's giving Hillary like a two to three point advantage, which is what they were showing. But if you subtract three points, Trump's ahead by one. So what you had to do is adjust the polls for the skew and the bias and you would come out in the right place, which showed that Trump was gonna win and then you got the yard signs. But I was at a large Evangelical Community, call it a camp or whatever you want in the Ozarks and I was
treading very lightly 'cause I do economics I
don't really do politics but I say this is in March
2016 before the Indiana primary when a lot of anti-Trumper's
were rooting for Ted Cruz. And the Indiana Primary
was coming up and I said, Ted Cruz he's got a lock
on the Evangelical vote and maybe Trump will lose Indiana. But in the course of my remarks, my presentation I had to mention Trump just in passing. Well the entire crowd rose to their feet and started applauding. And it was a shock to me. I was like, "Whoa the
Evangelicals like Trump "that means Trump wins." And I wasn't expecting that
from an Evangelical audience but again yard signs, evangelicals applauding, this is an example of
the Bayesian technique. There's math behind it
but you start with your formula and then you say well, what is the probability, what
is the conditional probability that Trump will win if
evangelicals are supporting him? Well it's higher, that's
a huge block election. 25 million evangelicals. 5 million stated home in 2016, 'cause they didn't want to go for a run, or sorry 2012 rather. Put them back in the equation, give them to Trump's column he wins. But again you don't want
to be too categorical but you have to be willing
to update, update, update that's the key to the Bayesian technique. We learned it, I learned it at the CIA. It's used in intelligence gathering 'cause what is an intelligence agency for? You ask them to solve the problems when you don't have enough data. If you got data, a high
school kid could do it. But if you don't have data
how do you do the analysis so it's a very powerful technique. It gets much better results
than what the FED does. - So two things real quickly, speaking of the CIA in your book "Aftermath"
which everybody should read 'cause I think it's your best book; the seven secrets of wealth
preservation the coming chaos and again we do our best
to be non-political. But you in there, you basically hang the
Clinton's out to dry from what you saw at the CIA. - Right. The time I was in the CIA one of the things I was asked to do in 2006 was a famous case well by the way we should
explain two listeners there's an agency called CFIUS. C-F-I-U-S but that's
actually to an acronym for Committee on Foreign Investment
in the United States. If you're a foreign company and
you want to buy a US company you have to get reviewed by CFIUS for national security reasons. Now there are all kinds
of other laws that apply anti-trust or whatever but this is so if you're a British
company and you want to buy Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream nobody cares. Nobody thinks that's a
national security threat. But if you're a Russian
company or Chinese company and you want to buy Verizon no way. There's no way that those
adversaries of the United States are going to be allowed to buy our major
telecommunications company, and then there's everything in between. So the purpose of CFIUS is to review these potential acquisitions, the intelligence community doesn't get to vote on the acquisition but they report back
based on their sourcing as to whether there's a threat or not. But in 2006 they approved
the Dubai Port Steel. Dubai was gonna buy the major
port operations in the US. Bush White House was all for it. Dubai is a friend of the US not a problem. Thing blows up big-time. Chuck Schumer comes out on Sunday says, he used some very
derogatory terms about Arabs but we're selling our port
systems to the Arabs et cetera and it became a political disaster. It wasn't really a
national security threat but it was a political disaster. So the intelligence community decides to set up a private
sector advisory panel to help them again get out of the bubble and say, how do these things
look in the real world? I was asked to recruit all the
members of panel, which I did I put together a mix of
lawyer's, hedge fund people, Wall Street people, subject
matter experts, et cetera. There were 12 of us, I called The Dirty Dozen. And we met four times a year at Langley to after look at these deals. We were never shown the Russian
acquisition of uranium one. A large portion of the US uranium assets, which was sponsored by
Bill and Hillary Clinton in exchange for hundreds
of millions of dollars of contributions to their Foundation. $500,000 speaking fees from
Russians to Bill Clinton. I mean I'm a speaker but I
don't get 500,000 for a speech I can guarantee it. - I could be swayed for $500,000. - Yeah (mumbles), it's a nice round number. But I thought to myself and then later this
committee was disbanded. After everyone involved
saying what a success it was. Great job. You picked the right people, this has been incredibly valuable to us. And we did work on a lot of deals. But essentially, why did they disband something
that was working so well? I was actually asked the Pentagon to do the same thing for them
because it worked so well. So why did they disband
something that worked so well? And why were we not showing the one deal that was the most sensitive at all? I mean, I told about UK buying Ben & Jerry's, how about Russia buying our uranium. How does that get through
in a million years, from a national security perspective? It was only later when all this came out, it was not on none of the time, that it was pretty clear. It was General Clapper
who terminated our group. It was pretty clear this
was part of a broader setup in the government to smooth the way for Russian acquisition of US uranium. This is not Trump collusion, this is the Clinton's
jeopardizing US National Security. So I write about that
about the work we did, which we were very proud of. How we were railroaded away
from this uranium one deal and then his little vignette, I was the the target if you will of an attempted their
recruitment by the Russians, which I promptly reported
to counter intelligence and they then did their own thing on that. But it was an interesting time and place. But it's still going on. - Wow. That's amazing. Once again Robert Kiyosaki
on "The Rich Dad Radio Show", our guest today is James Rickards, his latest book is called "Aftermath" the first book I read was "Currency Wars," which everybody hears about today but 10 years ago the idea of
a currency war was a new idea. So once again his book is called "Aftermath: The Seven Secrets
of Wealth Preservation "in the Coming Chaos." - The Coming Chaos. I wanna hear about the coming chaos. What's the coming chaos? - What is the chaos? - Well look it's obviously
some kind of financial collapse but the thing is how big is it? And does it have implications
for social disorder? Does it get worse? Is is, are we on the way to Venezuela? Or is this a replay of 2008? Maybe a little bit bigger. So that's that's the context
we have to put this in. - So once again Robert Kiyosaki, when we come back we'll be
asking Jim further questions. I'm still disturbed by the Clinton's but when we come back I'll
go into how education and he's gonna talk about how the business schools stop teaching gold as part of the overall plan here. So when we come back you'll find out more what Jim Rickards and
his new book "Aftermath" will talk about but more importantly how you can prepare, predict and prosper in the coming future will be right back. Welcome back Robert Kiosaki
of "The Rich Dad Radio Show." The good news and bad news about money. Once again listen to Rich Dad Radio Show anytime anywhere on iTunes or Android. And all of our programs are
archived at RichDadRadio.com we archive it so you
can listen to it again, 'cause when you listen to
it again you learn more. But you also have your friends,
family, business associate listen to this. At this time we generally
go into Ask Robert but since one of our favorite
guests James Rickards is in our studio in Scottsdale, Arizona all the way from New Hampshire and we're talking about his latest book "Aftermath: The Seven Secrets
of Wealth Preservation "in the Coming Chaos" And I don't know if you guys can see, there's a lot in this book. I mean there is so much I
could stand here forever and every, it is a page turner but it just asks more questions. I mean you go into such depth on it. I just realized how little I know, we know and the people know. Any comments Kim? - Well that's what's facilitating Jim is all of your experiences
and working with the CIA, and all of this. And so you have such an inside
look on what's going on, really going on versus
what we hear in the news and all the propaganda. - Plus, Jim comes from
the hedge fund background and he worked with the defense department so he understand currency wars. And now he's talking
about what it was like to work with the CIA. So I think I would prefer right now to hear what it's like
to work with the CIA but also, is Trump gonna get even now? That's my question. And how much dirt does he have? - Well it's very interesting Robert. You go back to the early
days of the Cold War the 1960s when the US is
building up its nuclear arsenal and Russia, Soviet Union at the time was building up it's nuclear arsenal. And there were all these
what's called game theory. Game theory is, two prisoners dilemma, but how do you outthink the other person? What do they do? What's your response to what they just? So this was applied to
nuclear war fighting and it actually worked extremely well for a number reasons. And there were only two parties,
it wasn't multi-partied, well two but wasn't three, five, 10 where it gets exponentially
more difficult. They had pretty good
lines of communication. Not too much commerce but the communication lines were clear. And the consequences were clear. So that's a good
situation for game theory. And what we used to call it was, there are two scorpions in a bottle. And the thing about a scorpion, one scorpion stings the other, okay the victim's gonna die but has just enough
strength left to sting back and you both die. So that the message from that model was don't start a nuclear war because they'll shoot back at you. And then you got into, well do they have they
have enough to shoot back after you shoot at them? And that's why we kept
building more missiles. Why do you need more missiles? Well we need to survive the first strike. So we can do the second strike. And that was the metaphor there. So kind of, you bring that forward to where
we are in Washington today, which is a bit of a mess but I've got sorta two scorpions. One is you could say the White House and Trump and Trump supporters. And people who are not
highly partisan in my view but very capable at
the Justice Department, the US Attorney's offices around
the country and elsewhere. And then you have the house
majority of the Democratic Party and the House of Representatives. The media and all the people
who like to gang up on Trump. So I don't want to, I have
at my opinions on this, everyone does, we don't
have to get two partisan but just to put that in Game Theory. So now that the Muller Report
has and the Attorney General cleared Trump of any wrongdoing. Did he push the line a little bit? Yeah well that's Trump, but
it didn't break the law. And so now they want to what we call investigate the investigators. William Barr the Attorney General, has asked John Durham the US Attorney for Connecticut. Connecticut's not really relevant
except Komey lives there. But you could pick an
almost any US Attorney for a job like this. To look into the abuses by
the intelligence community, by the the FBI which is part
of the intelligence community. Misrepresentations to the secret court. We have something go to FISA Court, Financial Intelligence
Surveillance, sorry, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. That authorizes something
like the star chamber. When you into the FISA
Court for a warrant, the other side doesn't get to show up. Normally if somebody sues you, you get to show up and
put on your defense. It's fair. The other side doesn't get to show up. They don't even know what's happening. And a search warrant is issued
and you're being spied upon and you don't even know it. And the theory is that well, okay we can do that where
national security is at stake. We have to kind of push
the rules a little bit. Well what was the National
Security implications of a guy running for president? It's suppose to be a free country, you're supposed to be able to do that. But that intelligence thing was turned on Trump with
very little support. - Now they're gonna look
at who was spying on trump. - Correct. Okay so now that Trump's been cleared, let's go back and look at the
people who authorized this. And it was James Komey. - And he's head of the FBI. - James Komey, Head of the FBI. His deputy, Peter Struck - And his girlfriend. - She have have been his girlfriend but she was also a lawyer for the FBI. So she had a responsible position. Lisa Page. Andrew McCabe who actually
was the Deputy Director. So that's that group. So they're now under scrutiny. Some people say they better lawyer up. They have lawyered up. We know some criminal
investigations are pending, meaning grand juries are proceeding. See how that plays out. Now the other scorpion is Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic majority in
the House of Representatives. They're no fans of Trump. The Democrats wanna win the election 2020. And they're going down
the impeachment path. Now Pelosi he keeps saying "Well, "it's too soon to start
impeachment proceedings." And politically she knows, it's kind of a loser for the Democrats. When Bill Clinton was impeached, his popularity went up. And it did, and significantly. And he kinda ended on a
high note despite being only the second president
history to be impeached. - And he was impeached, but he never got kicked out of office. - Correct, 'cause that's
a trial in the Senate. And by the way if Trump were impeached, it goes over to the Senate. McConnell's already said, "This is gonna be like a five-minute trial "and the guy's gonna get off. "So why you bothering with this?" And Pelosi knows that too because the Republicans
have a big majority or not big majority but big
enough majority in the Senate. But Pelosi's getting pressure from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Omar. But not just the newcomers,
Nadler wants impeachment. Elijah Cummings wants impeachment, Maxine Waters, these are
very senior democrats. So the one scorpion is
will the house impeach Donald Trump and they're
heading in that direction. They haven't started formal proceedings, but in all but name
that's what they're doing. Will the Trump justice department put half the anti-Trump crowd in jail? You've gotta keep an open mind but these are the two scorpions. Now normally the way
things work in the swamp is also the way things work in the Mafia, you have what you call sit
downs, with the two sides that are at war, they
sit down with each other, say you know this isn't good for anybody let's just, everyone just go our way, let bygones be bygones. And that's usually what
happens at Washington, the house says we'll
back off if you back off. Nobody goes to jail, nobody
gets impeached, that's that. I don't see that happening. My view this is headed for a shoot out as we get closer to the election. I think the markets and
investors are underestimating the impact of this. Look you get tired of the news
every day it's a new headline he did this, she did that, whatever. But don't get tired of
this, pay attention to it because nothing's more important, and there's nothing markets
hate more then uncertainty. You know bull market
people know what to do, and bear market people know what to do, and you can make money
in both kinds of markets as you guys know better then anybody but, what if there's genuine uncertainty, what if we just don't know
which way this is going, and then what do you do? Well that's when people sell
out and head to the sidelines which is not good for the
economy, not good for the market. So we may be getting closer
to that kind of point and things get very
unpredictable, very nasty and there's a tipping point
where both sides are realizing they're going for the throat
so you kind of accelerate the process. - Who's gonna sting first? - Correct, who's gonna sting first, even though everyone loses. So my view is that this
is gonna get more intense, more nasty, we are gonna see
some real impeachment action and some real indictments. - It's gonna be exciting huh? - Yeah well good for ratings. - (laughs) Good for ratings. - So one more thing, you mentioned, wasn't she attorney general or something, Loretta-- - Loretta Lynch was the attorney-- - And she was friends with Clinton? - Yeah well she was good
enough friends to meet him in a private jet on the tarmac. By the way that would have gone undetected but for the fact that it was in Arizona. - It was here in Phoenix yeah. - Right in Phoenix, and
there just happened to be a journalist who was there
covering some other story and he was like oh that
looks like Clinton. So he reports this, but
otherwise it would have gone unreported, certainly wasn't scheduled, and you wonder how many
times the elites are meeting in the private jets. This probably goes on,
I'm sure it does go on all the time. So that comes out and
then they were talking about the grandkids or
something according to them. (laughs) But you put somebody under oath and put them in front of a grand
jury and see what they say. - And you talk about the
elites and in your book you talk about the elites,
and wealth preservation, how they protect their wealth. How is it different from everybody else? - Well it starts with gold, I know, I don't know, just
because of my experience in hedge funds and living for decades in Derry, Connecticut which
is a very wealthy town right nextdoor to Greenwich, and worked in Greenwich for 20 years. So I guess I know enough billionaires. I've never met one who
doesn't have a large holding of physical gold. - Not ETFs? - Not ETFs no, they might
trade ETFs in their funds, they might trade stocks and bonds and currencies all day long but when you, if you know them well enough and you say, what do you do with your own money? Yeah they've got stock
portfolios but it's heavy on real estate and gold, and fine art and other hard assets. I don't believe in going overboard, my recommendation's always been 10% gold. 10% is small enough
that you won't get hurt, and big enough that you'll be protected if everything else fails, to
me that's the right number. But it's amazing how even, I
talk about this in the book in "Aftermath", how even
the smartest, richest people in the world, by the way
there's no correlation between smart and rich, you can be both, but you're not automatically. But so you say where's your gold. They say, I've got a place in New Zealand, I got a silo, I got bodyguards. All my gold's in New Zealand. So how you gonna get there? I've got a private jet. Uh huh, how you gonna
fuel your private jet when the power goes down? Is your pilot gonna go with you
and leave his family behind? Can you refuel in Hawaii? People actually don't think
these things all the way through they think they've got it
figured out but the don't. I've done disaster
planning for the Pentagon and they have these plans
to evacuate Washington. I said look, you can't
get out of Washington on a normal day. (laughs) Ever seen the traffic on
the Memorial Bridge in DC? How you gonna get out in a panic? And the answer is
bicycles and motorcycles. But you really have to
think things through. - The other thing we mentioned earlier was about how when you were in business school they stopped teaching gold,
would you mind mentioning that? - Right, yeah business school applies, but even economics program. I was a graduate student
in international economics. I was class of '74 and everyone says well Nixon went off the
gold standard in 1971. Yeah but what Nixon thought he was doing, he didn't think he was
going off the gold standard, he temporarily suspending. I spoke to two of the
small group of people who were at Camp David that
weekend, August 15th 1971, one of them was Paul Volcker, the other one was Ken Dam, Kenneth Dam, later dean of the University
of Chicago Law School, acting Secretary of the Treasury on 9/11. But they all thought, Volcker
and Dam both said to me that this was temporary, it was a time out so you could devalue the dollar, reset it and then go back to the gold standard. Well that never happened, but they thought that was what was gonna happen. So they really kind of
stumbled and bumbled their way for a few years from '71 to '74, but it wasn't until 1974
that the IMF officially kind of demonetized gold. Well that's when I was in school, and so we didn't know
how it was gonna turn out so we had to learn it. So I studied gold as monetary asset, as a monetary reserve at
a time when it was still the prevailing orthodox. France was the last one to cave in, France wanted the gold standard. So I tell people if
you're younger then I am and you know anything about
gold you're either self taught or you went to mining college because after 1974 universities
stopped teaching it period. So we're now at a point
where we have two generations of younger scholars who have come along, who know nothing about
gold in a monetary context. And that makes it easier
for the government to propagandize and
promote FIA money systems that are not stable. - Which just brings up
again in "Aftermath", you talk about Nixon took us
off the gold standard in '71. In my book "Fake" it was
'72, I was flying behind enemy lines looking for gold in Vietnam. But in '72 I went on the gold standard and you said the same
thing in "Aftermath", you should set yourself up
on your own gold standard outside the banking system. - Right I talk about
this in the introduction, 'cause I have a section
that I think deservedly so is very praiseworthy of
President Gerald Ford. And Ford is often an object of ridicule, I guess he was coming off Air Force One, he tripped and Chevy Chase took that to "Saturday Night Live",
and ever since then Ford's been portrayed
as this kind of bumbler and he did lose his
reelection after it in 1976 to Jimmy Carter. But if you actually
explore Ford's biography he was a brilliant student,
all American athlete, football champion but he did two things. I also talk about you had
these historical rankings, who were the 10 greatest presidents, who are all the presidents
ranked in order of importance of achievement, and they're usually done by liberal scholars. But it changes over time,
Harry Truman was way down in the pack, he was a disaster. We look at Harry Truman
today, he's in the top five, along with FDR. - Lincoln.
- Lincoln. Washington and Eisenhower actually. Eisenhower's come out of nowhere, Eisenhower's now one of
our top ranked presidents. So you have too, there's
a recency bias for Obama was great because well we
just got through Obama, we'll see where he is in
30 years, I don't know, but these things do move around. But a guy who's in the middle of the pack, that I think should be much
higher, much closer to the top is Gerald Ford. Gerald Ford did two things that
are greatly underestimated, one was the Helsinki Accords. The Helsinki Accords everyone
thought it was a betrayal of Eastern Europeans in the United States because we recognized some
borders that had been imposed by the Soviet Union. That was our part of the
deal, but at the same time we got the Soviet Union for
the first time in writing, to sign a treaty that says
we recognize human rights. And that platform lead to Lech Walesa, Pope John Paul II got involved. That human rights platform
lead to all the revolution, and counter revolution,
push back and protest that eventually lead to the
destruction of the Soviet Union. So I don't think you can say
well that just kind of happened Helsinki was the portal that
opened the door to that, and that was Gerald Ford's accomplishment. But the other thing he
did, for the first time since 1933 gold became legal
for United States citizens to own, from 1933 to
1975 it was contraband. It was like drugs or machine guns. - Ford did that. - I had to smuggle my Krugerrand in. - Exactly, you couldn't have it period. But because of the bill
that Ford signed in 1975 gold became legal and
to your point Robert, people say we don't have a gold standard. You can have your own gold standard. You are free to take dollars as you choose and buy gold as much, or
as little as you want, put it in a safe place, don't
put it in a bank deposit box because that'll be the first
place that gets locked down and frozen out, when you need it you won't be able to get it. But the point is if the
country's not on a gold standard that may be too bad but
you can be on a personal gold standard and preserve wealth, just by buying gold. - And anybody can do that? - Correct. - This is the final, final, I could talk to you for... Once again the book is called "Aftermath" you got to read the book. It goes into more stuff
about debt to GDP ratios and all that which is terrifying. But I also heard you in another talk, you talk about how we
have Trump and his tariffs and all this stuff going on with Mexico and stuff like this
but you also talk about what's going on between
China, Russia and the US. And in your talk you said something about if you're sitting at a poker table and you don't know who the
patsy is, you're the patsy. - Correct. - So right now I believe you were saying that it's Russia, China and the US are playing cards right now. - Right. - And who's the patsy? - Well if we don't know it's us. And that's the point Robert which is, as far as again I have a background in international
relations and geo-politics before I even got into economics and had a long career in finance, and it's always been
international finance. So this merger of capital
markets, stocks, bonds, derivatives, currencies,
commodities et cetera on the one hand and geo-politics which is national security, intelligence, military affairs,
geo-politics on the other. They're merging, it's like a Venn diagram two big circles that are
merging, here's the problem. There's always been some connection but that overlap is getting larger, it's hard to talk about geo-politics without talking about economics. And it's impossible to
talk about capital markets without talking about geo-politics. They're not separate at
all, they're merging. You've got brilliant people on both sides, you can go over to Wall
Street, find all the PhDs and the Quants and the egg heads you want and you get international security, I deal a lot with the military. I mean these people are brilliant, they make you proud to be American. I meet a major or a colonel
or a brigadier general, a lot of them have
multiple masters degrees, some of them have PhDs,
speak five languages. These are not the way they're portrayed, they're actually brilliant. The problem is, who's good at both? Great people in geo-political side, great people on Wall
Street who can get off from a vault in the Pentagon
from a classified meeting, fly to Wall Street walk into a boardroom and talk to business people and
investors in their language. Very few, that's a
relatively scary resource, that's what I do, there's some others, Ian Bremmer, Pippa Mulgram, myself, but this is, it's an expanding
area with a small group and you have to see both sides of this to really make sense of what's going on. - So the US is the patsy right
now, Russia and China are-- - There are only three
country's that really matter, Russia, China and the United States. Everybody goes oh Russia, you know, they're the 12th largest economy and it's a one trick pony with commodities and Putin's a thug, and
the populations declining, so what do we care about Russia. They're the largest physical
country in the world, along with Saudi Arabia and the US they're one of the three
largest energy producers in the world, they have
the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, larger
then the United States. They're a geo-political giant and I don't care how
much you disparage Putin, good guy, bad guy he obviously
knows how to play rough but my point is you can't
pursue foreign policy without taking Russia into account. - You know aren't Russia and
China doing more and more deals together? - That's the point Kim,
that's exactly right. So three handed poker game,
Russia, China, the United States that's the way poker works
if you play the game. Two people will gang up on the other, clean them out, then they'll
fight with each other for the rest of the pot. But if you don't know who the sucker is, you're the sucker and
going back to Kissinger even before Kissinger
through even Bill Clinton and the Bush's, we always
were closer to one side then the other to isolate the odd man out. So in the beginning of
1972 we opened up to China, we wanted to be buddies
with China as a way of derailing the Soviet Union. But after 1991 we kind of
cosied up the Soviet Union to derail China. That's not always the same partner, you might have to switch
sides, that's politics. But the United States was
very good under Kissinger and Baker and others, of
aligning with one of those powers to diminish the ability of the third. But starting with Obama
we have no friends, we've completely, democrats
don't want to talk about Russian collusion and all
this stuff, well fine. If you wanna talk to Russia fine, but now we're in a huge
financial war with China 'cause they're trying to undermine us so we're not friends with China, we're not friends with Russia, but they're friends with each other which was your point Kim
and what they're doing, I talk about this in the book. All your Bitcoin people,
I say forget Bitcoin, but don't forget cryptocurrencies, Russia and China are
working on the technology for cryptocurrency, it's
what's called a permissioned system which means that
not everybody can get in. It's like a club, they have to let you in. It'll be a new coin, it won't be Bitcoin, called a Putin coin or a
sheik coin or whatever, backed up by gold. Russia has almost
quadrupled it's gold reserve since 2009, it's gone from 600 tons to today around 2100 tons on it's way to higher amounts. China's same thing,
China's less transparent, we have to do some estimating, but they're in the same place. Why are they buying all
this gold, are they stupid or do they see something
coming that we don't? Well I have friends in Russia and China, they're not stupid. They see something coming
that most people don't. And so you start this cryptocurrency, so now to your point Kim, China sells critical
infrastructure to Russia, Russia sells weapons to China, Iran sells oil to China, North Korea sells missiles to Iran, everybody goes to Turkey for a vacation 'cause it's a nice
country but the point is yeah there's trading
network with all these reciprocal buyers and sellers. Instead of denominating it in dollars, which has been the case, you denominate it in this new cryptocurrency
it's just a way to keep score, could be baseball cards
but you just keep score. And then periodically settle up, so I ran a deficit with
you, I owe you money or you have a deficit with
Kim and you owe Kim money or whatever. The point is the net payment
is always much smaller then the gross payment, if you had to pay for every shipment in
real time that's gross but if we just keep score
in this cryptocurrency and net it down that's
a much smaller payment and we settle up in gold, not the crypto. Crypto's a way to keep score. You don't have to move the
gold around, you could, but you can station it in Switzerland and change the name tags whatever, which is what has been done in the past. But what's missing from
that economic system? Dollars, there's no
dollars in the whole thing, it's cryptocurrencies, gold, netting and a permission private system. This is not, I know you're not just a fan but a student, protege
of Buckminster Fuller and you like good solid predictions Robert but I'll say this, what I just described it's not a prediction, it's happening. It's not all the way here, they're working on the blockchain, they're working on the cryptocurrencies, they're working at
everything I just described so this is the future, a
future without dollars. What if you're a dollar based investor? Where does that leave you? Well the answer is you better think about some other asset classes and they could be real estate or gold or many others. - Boy.
- Wow. - I could listen to you
forever, once again, as a very, very dear
friend, shamelessly promote our upcoming book, "The
Ravens" coming out in 2020. And Jim's latest book here is "Aftermath" as you can see I do study and read. This book has so much information in it, the more I study it the more I don't know, but the clearer I get about
what I have to do personally. Any comments Kim? - Well I just thank you Jim, we could go on for hours and hours, you're such a wealth of information. Just thank you for your time, and thank you for being here. And that last piece kind of
a little bit of a shocker, I mean that's an eye opener. - Which part? - About China and Russia
and the cryptocurrency and the permission and the gold, and how much gold they're storing. How much gold does the US,
are they storing more gold? - The US has about 8000
tons, a little bit more which is fine, that's the
most of any one country in the world but the
point is Russia and China are catching up, and as a
percentage of their economy at least in the case
of Russia it's greater. The US, well gold to money
supply is about 1.7%, but in the case of
Russia it's close to 6%. - And is the US accumulating more gold? - No I think we should be, I've
said to government officials you know you print money and buy bonds, why don't you print money and buy gold? - Good point. - That's the personal gold standard. Once again thank you very much, my mind is blown, thank
you all for listening to "Rich Dad Radio" and please
get Jim's book, "Aftermath." Thank you very much.
- Thank you.
I remember my father made me read his book when I was younger, truly a great read and offers a different perspective. Id recommend it to anyone:
book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/69571.Rich_Dad_Poor_Dad
Don't ask him if he's an anarchist.
Wasn’t Kiyosaki a scammer that promoted MLMs as being a legitimate business opportunity? I’m not going to believe a word out of his mouth tbh