How to Share Your Faith & Face Your Friends Without Fear with Greg Koukl

thank you thank you you guys are so great I will sit down for goodness sake gosh thank you so much it is always so much fun to come to see you guys because you always treat me so well I mean I get treated well most places I go well like occasionally on university campuses it does know his coat so well there but I always love coming back to Saddleback because it's just such a warm engaging environment and as Ric has said I've been spending our sessions together as I usually do trying to give tools that will help followers of Christ to clarify their point of view I'll make it more understandable and also more persuasive and we call it apologetics means giving a defense for our convictions but I found and we covered some things in in some of the other services but I I've just noticed something in the last say about 10 years that has been a shift in my own emphasis as I've talked with followers of Christ about these kinds of things and I I didn't notice it like the my first 30 years as a Christian I noticed it now something that's different I still emphasize how you can maneuver in conversations and we'll talk a little bit about that tonight and I emphasize answers to challenges and questions and the like but something keeps coming back to mind by way of emphasis that I hadn't noticed before and just to sum it up in a word it's the word courage courage I keep thinking of this person in in in Revelations that says strengthen that which remains and is in the on the verge of perishing and I don't think we're there yet but this strengthen that which remains keeps coming back at me because I see a certain shift in culture over the last 10 years especially a shift in culture that has made it more difficult for followers of Christ to be faithful and courageous in communicating their convictions to others and I think that this trend is not going to get better it's going to get worse and this is why I I find my comment more and more laced with encouragement to believers to having done everything to stand firm and so tonight I want to talk a little bit more about that how do you as followers of Christ engage with your friends without fear well I've got a couple of suggestions about that I paused for a moment there because I I was thinking I don't know if we ever get over the fear because I don't think courage is not having fear but courage is the willingness to act in the midst of fear and there are some things that we can do to help us in that Enterprise one thing that I see that helps me to be courageous is if I have some knowledge about some things and the knowledge then gives me more confidence and if I'm aware of some answers that helps me and also if I have decided in advance about something important if I have decided in advance about something important you know they tell you if you're trying to learn self-defense and you're afraid about going out in the streets and so they show you some moves they tell you first you decide first before you go out there if you confront what you're gonna do how you're gonna stand because that mental attitude of knowing in advance where you stand how you act that will help you to carry out when the when the circumstances are rough so something like that is what I want to talk about in our session together I mentioned a shift in the culture a lot of folks asked well whatever what happened you know 9/11 did people start coming back to church after 9/11 and if you around then it'll many of you were although I realized that's like 13 years ago now oh my goodness and so a lot of you who are younger this is a vague memory but those were older you know the church is filled up right for a few weeks and then they everything went back to normal except for there was a change in our culture and I think it was signaled by an article that Thomas Friedman wrote in the New York Times when the smoke was still billowing from the Twin Towers there in New York City the the the article was called the real war and what he wrote there is that the real war that we're facing is not a war against terrorism that's just a tool in this real war the real war was against what he called religious totalitarianism now what's religious totalitarianism if it's it's the view that a person thinks his own religion is actually true now the people who flew those planes into the Twin Towers and into the field in in in Pennsylvania and into the Pentagon do they believe their religious views were true of course they did they gave their life for it but they're not the only one who think their views are true many people in this room are deeply committed to the truth of what Jesus brought to us and entrusted to us but Thomas Friedman meet Friedman lumped us all together as fundamentalists and he didn't make the distinction between different groups that Christian fundamentalist would likely pray for you and then that Muslim fundamentalist might kill you no they're all the same and so from that time and that was right around when the new atheist started publishing and getting really popular you know Christopher Hitchens richard dawkins daniel dennett sam harris and there's nothing new about their arguments their point of view is the same their arguments are the same they have a new attitude they're angry a lot angrier than the 20th century atheists and they also not only think we're wrong if you're a follower of Christ they think we're dangerous we're the threat we're the danger Thomas Friedman says the future of civilization may depend on how we fight this war and in the last 10 years I have seen a tremendous amount of hostility just coming out of everywhere why what did we do in fact the irony is it took a it took fundamentalist Muslims to fly planes into the towers etc kill 2973 Americans and visitors on American soil for or Islam to have most favored religious status in our country and Christians to be viewed as the enemy how does that work this is the reality of what we're up against so if we are gonna be faithful in this kind of environment I think there's three things that we need and that's what I want to cover with you now we need a plan we need some information and then we need that thing I was talking about a few moments ago we need a line in the sand and we need to know where that line is that we will not cross now in earlier sessions I talked a bit about the plan and you can catch in detail that on videos so I'm just going to briefly speak to it I have a plan whenever I go out it's actually captured in this book tactics a game plan for discussing your Christian conviction there's still a few left in the back you could get one if you want on the outside I'll be there signing afterwards but I'll give you a little summary of what this plan entails what I've done with my own game plan there in the book is I have changed my goal whenever I engage people about the Lord and this will be somewhat controversial and I don't have a lot of time to explain it but I did in other services let me just say this I personally Christian 41 years now a full-time Christian work in apologetics which is a subset of evangelism I never have it as a goal when I talk to people in conversations that I hope will lead to spiritual things I never have it as a goal to lead that person to Christ in fact I don't even know if I'm gonna get to the gospel now why is that because I don't care if this person becomes a Christian no I that's the most important thing because the gospel isn't important to that end it is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes no I believe in all of that I just understand the nature of the circumstances in our culture now is that we can't just barrel forward with the simple gospel in effect we're gonna make it and expect to make a difference things have changed the easy pickins are / now we have to go more slowly we have to listen more we have to ask more questions we have to do what we can do little bit by little bit by little bit we're all on a team together and we're all doing our part and so it isn't about harvesting everything every time we go out for me it's more about gardening because you cannot have a harvest unless you've had a season of gardening right the harvest is always a season away kind of nobody comes to Christ really from zero to 60 in one minute I have two people that I've known in my life that that's been the case everybody else takes a lot of time and this is especially true now so what I've done is I made a change in my expectation I'm not swinging for the fences I'm not trying to even get on base I just got a very simple expectation for any conversation I just want to put a stone in people shoot alright I just I just want to give them something worth thinking about and I'm gonna engage them I have another aspect of the plan I'll tell you in a moment but I'm gonna draw him out and I'm gonna look for an opportunity if God gives me an opportunity I'll might slide something in there it may be something that I know about apologetics that may be some challenge that I offer them about their own thinking maybe plant a seed of doubt in their mind it might be just being really nice to them when they don't expect Christians to be nice to them maybe that's what I end up doing I just want to put a stone in their shoe I'm a gardener I'm not a harvester and I look back at my life for 40 years as a follower of Christ I've been gardening a lot and so I've taken now the pressure off of myself in conversations to think okay I got a I got to try to get this person to sign on the dotted line now if I for many of you if that's what was expected of you you wouldn't get off the bench right man I can't do that so I'm not going to do anything I'm saying you could do something if you make it as a goal to move people a little further forward do a little gardening and I don't know what that looks like in any individual situation the Lord will have to help you find that out but that's my goal so I have a change goal I'm gonna be gardening I'm gonna put a stone in their shoe and by the way if you're not a follower of Christ tonight I'm glad you're here I'm not here to convert you I just want to put a stone in your shoe tonight I want to annoy you in a good way all right I want you walking out that door going that bothered me I got to think about it great all right I'm happy okay now how do I get people thinking how do I make this work I use a tactic that I call the Columbo tactic remember him lieutenant Columbo now I actually put on my Columbo jacket the other services and I acted it out a long time for that I want to get on to some other thing Columbo solve crimes by asking questions and so I want you to think in terms of your game plan that what you're going to do is you're going to test the field so to speak to see if there's an opening to do some gardening by asking questions holidays are coming up Thanksgiving Christmas sometimes that's nasty time around the table big argument since ooh why don't you spend your time asking questions how about these two questions first one what do you mean by that actually I should I should say that again what do you mean by that it sounded like a what do you mean by that and that's the what not the way I mean it that is you draw other people out and find out their points of view I bet you had a lot of arguments with family and friends over turkeys in the past couple of years you never once listened to their point of view because you're thinking too much about what you wanted to say why don't you just commit yourself this year to not arguing at all but just asking questions to learn about their view and then some other time on your own at your leisure you might think about a better way to engage them based on what you now know so you ask him what do you mean by that here's another question once you get clear on what they mean maybe you get clear on their own views why not ask him how did you come to that conclusion or what are your reasons for that now these are model questions you can use lots of variations but the main thing is and here's my game plan I'm not trying to convert people I'm trying to garden them and we'll see what God does okay I do that by asking questions I try to figure out what views are and what they really believe and I want to know why they believe it that's it I'm not swinging for the fences I'm just getting in the batter's box you use those two questions to get the batter's box then watch and see what God does okay so that's the first point you got to have a game plan that'll give you what do you think if you have that game plan of your mind does that already make you feel a little bit more bold a little bit more confident a little bit more willing to reach out sure okay so you got a game plan second thing you need to know some things you need some knowledge when you need to know the gospel and if you think that communicating the gospel will be accomplished by telling people that Jesus loves them and he died for them and if they believe in him to go to heaven which by the way all of those things are completely true but if you think that's going to do it forget about it that's just spiritual noise to people nowadays you're gonna have to go more slowly explain the program and I think a lot of Christians have a hard time explaining the big picture because they don't see the big picture they have slogans that they believe in and they understand in a in a very truncated kind of way but when they get pushed back and asked for more clarification they get a little bit lost they they haven't seen the forest for the trees I think and so I put together a teaching and I'm not going to do that here maybe you can answer it have me come back I call it credo I'm writing a book on it cradle the the story of reality and in what I do in the book and in the talk is I I show how you can take the whole story of Christianity and capture it in five words that is the plotline is suggested by five different words it's the storyline it's the frame of the picture if you will there are different ways to carry it characterize it but for me this allows me to see the big thing and so what I want to talk about particular Zhai know where they fit in now our story starts like this in the beginning what God that's the first part of our story right it's story it's about him it's not about us God made a place for man so that man the special creature made in his image can be in a friendship with him but there was a rebellion which made God mad created a problem for man and so instead of judging man God became a man himself in the person of Jesus to execute a rescue operation that rescue operation culminated at a place called Golgotha on a cross and what anyone decides about what happened at Golgotha on that cross will determine what happens to them at the final resurrection there's your five words god man Jesus cross resurrection now this you can get because at an earlier service my daughter was sitting right over here and she's six and she had her hand up and she's counting it off as I was telling it to the audience she got it you can get it God man Jesus cross resurrection this is the outline of the story you put all the parts in there that's the big picture you got to know that you got to know what well enough to explain it to other people in a way that makes sense to them but I think you need to know some more things because of the hostility and the way the rhetoric has gone you have to know how to dodge certain challenges now apologetics is a field where we have trained people that step up and train you with answers to all kinds of challenges though I'm not going to cover all the bases in this session in fact in weekends in the past you've had a lot of great people on the stage to do that lots of books websites ours for one STR dot o-r-g case you're interested STR stand to reason STR dot org but there are a couple of peculiar challenges that we face right now that I think you need to answer and these are these are these are the kinds of things that just seem hard to get by and I'm going to offer you a way of dealing with them because part of the message we need to know is that Jesus is the source of salvation but he is the only source of salvation because there is no one else who did what Jesus did he is the only way of salvation because he's the only one who solved the problem and that is the central part of our message but this is a thing that really really bothers people and I'm sympathetic I understand from where they said how this sounds narrow-minded arrogant bigoted how could that be all religions are legitimate ways to God so let me give you a couple of maybe maneuvers that will allow you to to traffic or to to to manage in that with those challenges okay and I want you to think of this illustration you might even use this with somebody let's say your friend goes to the doctor you go with him because he's not feeling well the doctor examines your friend and the doctor says you know what you got you got cancer it's uh we can deal with it but it's bad and if you don't take care of this right now you're gonna die not good news your friend looks at the doctor and he says you're mean I'm gonna go find another doctor that isn't so mean now if you're the friend if you're the one listening in you're gonna wonder gee you know that's odd because maybe the doctor is mean but it he's not mean because he's given that diagnosis right doesn't mean go to the issue the question isn't about his character it's about whether he's a good medical doctor so your friend has missed the point but even worse than that it's it's foolish because or even stupid because maybe the doctor is right and if you don't attend to this thing right now then you're going to he's gonna die well see this is the problem that we're facing here let me just change the illustration somebody says Jesus Christ is the solution for the problem that you have with God right now and somebody says back you're mean but they don't use the word mean do they they say you're intolerant you're narrow-minded you're arrogant if you think that's the case no the parallel is a good parallel because it may be that a Christian who gives this message is intolerant narrow-minded and arrogant can you see that if he and that person has those character flaws it has nothing to do with whether or not he's right about Jesus I hope he doesn't have those flaws but people who object on that grounds are missing the point entirely and the physician illustration is apt because Christians are convinced that people are dying of a spiritual disease whether they're right or wrong please understand that we're motivated by concern out of other people and the real question isn't whether we're arrogant or intolerant the real question is whether we're right or not and you're never gonna find that out by calling names you're only gonna find that out not by looking at the Christian but by looking at Jesus and it also might be really foolish to do that first it misses the point secondly it might be foolish because those Christians might turn out to be right and if you react that way and push them away for that silly reason you might miss the best thing in eternity okay so I want to put that in perspective and I want to give you away as a follower of Christ when of how to respond when people call you a name like that when they say well you're intolerant for example when somebody says that you're intolerant you always have to ask for a definition what do you mean by that all right now I think I know what they mean by that I just want to get their meaning out on the table I think they're bugged at me because I think I'm right and actually that's what they usually say well you're intolerant because you think you're right on this particular issue now let me ask you a question do you think that I think I'm right are the things that I believe spiritually speaking yes of course I think I'm right that's why I believe what I believe if I didn't think I was right I wouldn't believe what I believed I believe something else and think that we're right just like everybody else though and here's the key to hold a belief is to hold an attitude that you think your belief is true I mean there's no way around that everybody who believes anything thinks their beliefs are true in other words I'm not the only one in the discussion who thinks I'm right the other person who's challenging me thinks he or she is right as well so I so so I have a question that I asked them they say you're intolerant I say what do you mean by that will you think you're right and I say well I do think I'm right and I could be mistaken I'm willing to talk about that but what about you the views that you have do you think you're right what are they gonna say oh I'm wrong about everything I believe in they think they're right too but now I haven't now they might say well I think I'm right for me too which I'll respond well if you think you're just right for you then why are you talking to me right now it does feel a little bit like you're trying to correct me right I'm the intolerant one you're the tolerant right now so okay so you think you're right now final question why is it when I think that I'm right I'm intolerant but when you think you're right you're just right what am i what am I missing here well I'm not missing anything because all that's going on here is just name-calling when people call you and tower and arrogant bigoted whatever it happens to be they have changed the topic from whatever you were talking about Jesus same-sex marriage abortion some ethical issue they've changed it completely now they're attacking you and now they're off the grid but they don't know it and that's why the questions go back and forth to help them to see it it's not a gotcha it's help them isn't it to help them to see that they're not talking about anything legitimate now when they attacking your character look what if they said you're intolerant and I said and you're ugly now I wouldn't say that but tell me how that's different they attacked my character I care attacked that look their looks nobody's talking about the issue we're doing the kind of thing that when we are junior high school our teachers and our parents told us not to do but now we're grownups and this is what passes as an intelligent discussion so there's an it there's a little insight and a maneuver that will help you hopefully to dodge that bullet okay but I also want to explain to you why the view that all religions are equally true is just plain false I think the view is false and I don't think that just because I'm a Christian I talked to a guy in an airplane we were flying from Los Angeles to San Francisco got in a small conversation and he said you're probably one of those guys that think that 90% of the people in the world are wrong in their religious views and then he you know the word hate kind of came into the conversation at that point and my response was basically yeah I guess I am one of those kind of people but that's not because I'm hateful or bigoted it's just simple math so let me attend explain what I'm talking about about ten years ago I was asked to come out to Toronto they flew me out to be part of a TV show called the test of faith and the test of faith is a program where they bring they talk about religious topics they fly in some religious weirdo they put him in the hot seat and then they have a table semicircle with other people around and they beat up on the religious weirdo for an hour on national TV kind of fun where do you think mr. Coker was seated by the way in that particular show I was the weirdo in the hot seat now what was my weird religious view I rejected the idea of religious pluralism and here what what that means is I rejected the idea that all religions were equally true and legitimate ways to God and I explained at the time that I was going to give an argument to them that did not trade on my own religious convictions I could have argued this way I could have argued I'm a Christian I believed in jesus jesus said he was the only way therefore other ways are false and there you have it now that's a way of arguing arguing and I think it's a legitimate way but if I had argued that way I would have brought all the attention on attacking Christianity and I didn't want that to be the focus I wanted to be talking about pluralism all right and and and so this was my strategy now just before we started there was a young man there it was part of the crew and he's the guy his name was up here he was the guy who had called me a couple of months before to set up the arrangement the TV show and when you do these kinds of things you always get a phone call and an interview because they want to make sure that you're weird enough to be on their show okay so we talked for an hour and a half on the phone and he thought yep this guy's really weird we'll have him they flew me out to Toronto where I was in the hot seat but before the show started I talked with Pierre a little bit and I said Pierre let me make a gentlemen's bet with you here I have an idea about the way this show is gonna go I'm gonna give an argument against pluralism and the rest of the people on the panel are going to ignore my argument and they're gonna start attacking me personally and they're gonna use words like narrow-minded and arrogant and intolerant that kind of thing I don't know maybe it won't happen but I've seen this happen before let's just see all right so first session I'm by myself in the hot hot seat Valery Pringle the host wants to interview me for the first five minutes segment before we bring the rest of the crowd up and so I get to make my case against pluralism and here's the argument that I offered remember this does not trade on my own religious convictions I said Jesus claimed to be the Messiah right he either was the Messiah or he wasn't the Messiah if he wasn't the Messiah then the Christians are wrong and the Jews are right on that point if he was the Messiah then the Jews are wrong and the Christians are right but under no circumstances can they both be basically right can they if there's a god maybe it's an open question he's either personal or not personal if he's personal than the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims are right on that point and the the Hindus are wrong if it turns out that he is not personal with an Hindus are right and the Jews and Christians and Muslims are wrong but under no circumstance can they both be right can they when you die you either go to heaven or hell or you go to astral worlds or maybe you get reincarnated but you can't do them all at the same time somebody's making a mistake actually most people are making mistake the reason that all religions cannot be true is because they have contradictory claims about reality it might be that they're all wrong it might be that my view is wrong but they can't all be right so there's my argument by the way that's a pretty good argument you can use it if you like then they started bringing the the other contestants up you know first was the gentleman a Sikh from Toronto he was a barrister they're an attorney a Sikh as the religious order the gentleman's wear the turban he was really nice to me in the green room a boy he was hopping mad when he got out and he started out here's what he said the first thing he said Valerie Pringle asked him what he thought of my comments he had heard them on the screen you know how that goes and he said well if mr. cocoa thinks he won the lottery good for him what what is he talking is he talking about my argument against pluralism no he went on the internet checked out Str org and found out what I did knew I was a Christian and he was going after me because I thought I was right now that was kind of a passive-aggressive beginning he didn't stay passive for long pretty soon he's shaking papers so that he printed out from our website across the way in front me in my face and he's he is hopping mad Valerie's got to push him down in his chair twice and then Hindu pastor comes out then a liberal Christian pastor a woman from the United Church of Canada pluralist all all after me and it's very interesting what began to happen certain words began creeping into the conversation words like arrogant and narrow minded and intolerant and I made the observation I said you know it's interesting where the conversations gone we first started out talking about an issue called pluralism and somehow the topic got changed on to mr. cocles personality mr. cocles arrogant mr. cocles narrow-minded mr. mr. Cole's mean I guess all right I said to them why don't I just admit it why don't I admit that I mean we all agree on that now can we get back to the topic in fact I said you know you're arguing against me so aggressively because I'm a Christian which I did not put on the table by the way so apparently you think that I'm wrong from the Christian perspective which means then at least my understanding of Christianity is wrong and all those who agree with this particular view which then means Christianity is not a legitimate religious view it's the wrong religious view well that means then that there are some religious views that are not true but our false mind so if you're right in the way you're attacking me right now then you're wrong about what we're supposed to be talking about here today they didn't get it one whole hour they didn't get it you know who got it who got it T Pierre the Atheist got it and he was hopping mad at the Sikh in fact he bounded up on the stage and he was letting me know all about it and he was using language that was appropriate for an atheist you know no it is not bigoted necessarily to believe your religious religion is right another religion it is not intolerant it isn't narrow-minded look if I am or any of those things in Tower narrow-minded or bigoted or you are shame on us but that is unrelated to the question that is the important question all religions can't be true it's not bigotry it's just simple math so what am I even saying so far in order to increase your courage which is going to be needed and it's needed now more than ever before as a follower of Christ first you need a plan I said there are two parts of that plan one you modify your goal and try to do some gardening instead of harvesting you want to put a stone in their shoe get them thinking secondly how you do that you do that with questions and I suggested two questions what do you mean by that how'd you come to that conclusion or some variation I also said you need some knowledge you need knowledge of the our story and the better you get at that the better you're gonna be at communicating okay but you also it'd be good to have some defensive maneuvers and I gave you a few right there I think all of these are in the book on tactics by the way just so you know here's the third thing you need you need a line in the sand your line in the sand not theirs now I just want to warn you in advance that a lot of you are not gonna like what I'm about to say I understand that okay but I'm gonna tell you the truth and I figure if I can tell you the truth and do it in a nice way that you're adult enough to take my words and judge them for yourself I want to look back about 50 years at something that happened that I think is instructive for us been reading the book Bonhoeffer by Eric Metaxas it's a fabulous account of dietrich bonhoeffer 'he's life in 1933 he was a 27 year old Lutheran pastor living in Berlin and the way the political winds were blowing at that time there was a there was a law that was passed that had a paragraph in it called the Aryan paragraph and the Aryan paragraph was a restriction of Liberty of Jews in government positions that is no person who is Jewish could hold a government position and since the church was a state Church this had implications for the church and there were Jews who had become followers of Christ that were within the leadership of the church and Dietrich Bonhoeffer understood that this would mean that the Jews would that were in leadership would had to be let go and the majority of the church the Christian Church in Germany was happy to let that happen because as far as they were concerned it was one people one right one Church let's just go with the flow that was their idea but Bonhoeffer understood that he could do that because in the church there is neither Jew nor Greek we don't make these kinds of distinctions now you need to understand it's already pretty obvious to you that this idea of neither Jew nor Greek in the church is rather low on the theological pecking order this isn't about salvation this isn't about the deity of Christ this isn't about the resurrection it's not a big thing it's a smaller thing but you see Bonhoeffer understood it for what it was and he says the minute we let the culture tell us what the church has to be like then when we evangelize we're no longer evangelizing people to a church that has Jesus Christ in it anymore and he knew he had to resist and he did any reason and he argued and he cajoled and he wrote letters and he gave sermons and he engaged people and then he prayed and then he hoped and he waited and finally when he done everything and all the other Christians like them had done everything they could they simply said no we will not go along with that we will not obey that law we will not support it we will not endorse it we will oppose it by every means available we will defy it with grace and with courage but we will not cross that line Bonhoeffer wrote we must shake off our fear of this world the cause of Christ is at stake are we to be found sleeping now you understand the nature of the time in which he wrote this there was a lot at stake for him in fact he lost his life at the gallows in 1945 another pastor Martin niemoller six years in Dachau and many others like him niemoller survived Bonhoeffer did not now today in our culture we do not have an Aryan paragraph thankfully Jews are not being singled out for ill treatment Christians are being singled out for ill treatment the current source of conflict has largely been a single general issue but in a more important one lies in the wings the issue is not ethnicity its ethics the issue in the culture is the morality of homosexuality and the propriety of same-sex marriage now please hear me on this what I'm about to say is not animated in any way by hostility towards gays I have that's not what I'm talking about here my comments are not about homosexuality there are many people in here that have questions about that they haven't resolved their issues some are struggling with same-sex attraction or not struggling with it whatever that's not on the table here friends believe me in fact my comments are not about sex at all it's about a trend it's about a trajectory it's about our culture something that's happened that should concern every single person person regardless of their sexual preferences what has happened is the culture is drawn a line in the sand that line has a name it's called tolerance there on the other side they are beckoning to Christians they are saying come join us cross over celebrate diversity and we will like you but if you do not we will hurt you and I'm using my words advisedly let me give you a couple of examples of what I'm talking about inmate this year Michael Sam football player openly gay drafted by Saint Louis after which he kissed his partner on camera I don't care about that no big deal but it kind of grossed out some other football players and one just made the mistake defensive back for the Miami Dolphins Don Jones tweeting oMG horrible the Dolphins find him they benched him and banned him from team activities until he underwent sensitivity training now look it you may not like what he had to say I don't think it would bother most people but that's the response of his team for a football player to go to sensitivity training by the way I wonder if this is gonna be a trend that every time a player our coach uses Jesus name or God's name in a way that's offensive to Christians do they get sent to sensitivity training I don't think so April of this year Brendan Eich you might recognize his name if you're into digital things he's that Mozilla co-founder Creator JavaScript this guy's a player he had a resign as CEO of Mozilla he lost his job as CEO of the company he founded why because five years before he had given money to prop 8 here in California somebody found out and outed him and because he had given money to prop 8 which was a proposition that defended marriage between a man and a woman just because he had weighed in politically he lost his job now listen to what they said in in in in when they let him go executive chairwoman Mitchell Baker said you know Ike's view on same-sex marriage was shocking to me because I never saw any kind of behavior or attitude from him that was not in line with Mozilla's values of inclusiveness in other words he was a model employee he was doing everything that he was supposed to do but because five years late before he had given money to something that was politically incorrect he got bounced and I'm telling you if it can if it can happen to Brendan I it could happen to you and it has happened to people just like you apparently was a violation of their principles of Tolerance to let anyone stay in leadership who did not support same-sex marriage think about that statement it was a violation of their principles of Tolerance you're intolerant get out now you're getting it Andrew Sullivan probably the most active homosexual voice in America right now said this whole episode about Ike disgusts me and it should just discuss anyone interested in a tolerant diverse society if this is the gay rights movement today founding our opponent opponents where the fanaticism more like the religious right than anyone else then count me out that's why I say this isn't about homosexuality this is about freedom and civility August last year Justice Richard bazan Supreme Court of the state of New Mexico in judging against a couple who were photographers who refused to do a same-sex wedding even though they had plenty of gay customers they were happy to serve said that the Hugin ins are free to think this by the way is his opinion in the Supreme Court judgment that came down against the photographers in the state of Mexico New Mexico the Hyuga names are free to think thank you to say to believe as they wish they may pray to the God of their choice and follow those commandments and their personal lives wherever they lead but they are now compelled by the law to compromise the very religious beliefs that inspire their lives let me go over that again in case you missed it you can think the way you want you can believe the way you want but you must surrender your religious convictions to obey the law Supreme Court justice state of New Mexico August 2013 that's the law if I were a pro gay this would scare me chicken filet Dan Kathy Chicago and New York told him clearly unless you share our values you can't do business in our cities what was that unless you share our vet whose values your values we can't do business in your city do you know that over 20 states have invidious discrimination well they all have this let me back up and put it this way over 20 in over 20 states in the Union you cannot be on the bench as a judge if you have anything to do with Boy Scouts because the Boy Scouts practice invidious discrimination and that sullies you're a bit ability to judge properly so you can't even be on the bench the state of California was considering this for the bar that means if you are involved in any group that practices what they think is invidious discrimination you can it be an attorney do you know any other groups that maybe share the same point of view about homosexuality as the Boy Scouts how about most of the Christian churches in our community and if you can't be a judge that is involved with the Boy Scouts for that reason how long will it be before you can't be a judge involved with any church for that reason do you see the trend here do you see why I'm concerned now I'm not whining and crying I'm not saying hey I got my rights I think there are good people out there like ADF that are helping us with that that's not my point my point is the wind is shifting the tides are turning and this is a pattern and whether or not we succeed through godly influence to alter this trend uh and I'm not counting on that but that's not my concern my concern is rescuing that which remains my concern is you and all of my brothers and sisters in Christ that when they stand up to that line and they're beckoned and screamed at from the other side that they do not cross it because this is our Aryan paragraph I'm convinced this is the place where our culture is is telling us are you that as asking are you gonna be faithful to Christ this is the place where we have to say we will not surrender he be bullied into denying the Savior that bought us like Bonhoeffer we can reason and we can argue we can control we can preach sermons we can engage we'd give our apologetics we write letters and finally we just have to say what no no I will not support those things contrary to Christ here I stand I could do no other we draw our own line in the sand my friends we draw the line and that line is truth and faithfulness that's what that line says and we do not cross over in Proverbs that says the fear of man is a snare John writes friendship with the world is antagonism towards God we stand firm we draw our own line the cause of Christ is at stake and are we to be found sleeping so let me ask you a final question almost finished are you willing to be called a bigot for Christ Paul was called a fool for Christ he wasn't a fool the Gospels not foolishness in 1st Corinthians chapter 2 he said the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing it's the wisdom of God the Outsiders think it's dumb What did he say you think it's foolish all right God is well pleased by the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe you think that's dumb you think I'm an idiot all right I can wear the label for the sake of the Gospels so here's my question are you willing to wear the label bigoted Paul wasn't a fool you're not a bigot but are you willing to be called one labeled one to wear that label to be identified with Christ Jesus said in Matthew chapter 10 three times do not fear them do not fear them do not fear them look it up and I'm saying to you with Jesus make your decision now decide before the pressures on plan in advance to stand firm on this issue not with hate not with rancor with grace with firmness with courage we say no to the world we say yes to Christ they have their line in the sand where's your line four days ago Rick Warren in the Vatican talking on marriage said this when God's Word is clear we must not we cannot back up back down back off or give in friends too much is at stake so make up your mind what side of the line you will stand Savior we desperately need your grace and your courage to stand with the Saints of the past and the Saints of the present against the world and for you and we know this isn't easy and it makes our hands sweat it makes our knees shake when we countenance the challenge that is coming and that may get worse here and probably will where we have to pay a price but Lord by your grace we want to stand with you we ask you to help us and I pray for this church lord I thank you for the leadership for the courage thank you for the message thank you for your grace on these people I pray that you would help us all to be able to say at the end of our lives that we have kept the faith that we have finished the faith for Christ's sake amen thank you

Channel: Saddleback Church

Views: 15,859

Rating: 4.681592 out of 5

Keywords: Greg Koukl (Organization Founder), Friends, Religion (TV Genre), how to over come fear, fear, apologetics, culture, Christianity (Religion), sharing your faith, Faith (Quotation Subject)

Id: NetexCG8JZQ

Length: 50min 19sec (3019 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 25 2014