How to Sell Your Idea to Television with TV Agent Matthew Doyle - Bulletproof Screenplay

welcome to the bulletproof screenplay podcast episode number 16 I find television very educating every time someone turns on the set I go into the other room and read a book Groucho Marx broadcasting from a dark windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft it's the bulletproof screenplay podcast showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof and here's your host Alex Ferrari welcome my screenwriters to another episode of the bulletproof screenplay podcast I am your humble host Alex Ferrari now today's show is sponsored by bulletproof script coverage now unlike other script coverage services bulletproof script coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are in the goals of the project you are so we actually break it down by three categories micro-budget indie film market and studio film there's no reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading temple movies when your movies gonna be done for $100,000 and we wanted to focus on that a bulletproof script coverage our readers have worked with Marvel Studios CAA WME NBC HBO Disney scott-free Warner Brothers the blacklist and many many more so if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers head on over to cover my screenplay calm now this is since it's going to be our last of the Sundance edition episodes though there might be a couple little guys I toss around maybe his little bonus episodes moving forward but this is the last official one for the Sundance series it was a really interesting conversation with a young man by the name of Matthew Doyle he is a TV lit agent over at Verve talent and lit agency and you know it was really interesting I wanted to get a real insider's look at the television market you know for writers specifically how to get your pilot's may get him in how do you submit them what the industry is looking for what the you know what the streaming networks are looking for what network television is looking for what you should do should you make a pilot should you not make a pilot and Matthews a young guy he's coming up he's literally basically at the beginning of his career but he's a very he's a rising star in the industry and I really wanted to get kind of like an in the trenches look at at the television literary market right now and see what what it takes to to make it do you need a pilot do you not need a pilot what are this what are they looking for what it was the industry looking for what are streaming platforms looking for what is it network television looking for and Matthew is one of those guys that really is in the trenches right now and gave us really valuable information about what the industry is looking for right now and also another big shout out to Adam Bowman from media circus PR Adam was that beautiful place that you see on our YouTube channel that is Adams place and he also handled all the audio for these these productions so Adam thank you so much if you guys are looking for a publicist for your film and want to get a little bit more recognition want to get interviews want to get a little bit of hype going around your movie these guys work specifically and exclusively with independent filmmaker so they definitely understand us so I'll leave their information in the show notes as well so without any further ado here is our conversation with Matthew Doyle hi I'm Alex Roy and I'm Sebastien twitter's and we are here with Matthew Doyle who is an agent at Verve Thank You Matthew for for doing this it's my pleasure to be here now I heard through the trades that you just had a really great promotion he's a little bit about that yeah so it the way it works at Verve and pretty much any agency is they don't tell you when you're gonna get promoted right which is torture and you're stewing and myself I felt in my mind that I deserve to get promoted which has nothing to do with whether you will get promoted in the film business yeah so yeah there's no it's not fair at all and but I was hoping to and we had the holiday party for the company and if there was one last chance to get promoted it would have been at the holiday party and I knew this they had this video that they of all the agents parents sort of talking about how when they knew their child was going to be an agent they did that you know you were gonna be an agent that's awesome and they're really old and it's great then the video ends and then it starts up again and my parents are on the screen and you were at the end lay yeah tortured you all the way to like after I was how actually was it by that point I was having I would other people got promoted before you you were the last no no I was I was the only one promoted to agent so I the the thing was happening and I was watching it and it was poignant whatever and then my parents come up and they start talking about my childhood and it's really kind of weird and awkward awkward I thought and it was emotional and then they said that Matt you're an agent so it's something that the partners had spoken to them about weeks beforehand and kept it kept applied for the end kept it quiet Wow and they agent at them the agent and my parents because my parents did a video and then they called them back and they're like it's great we love it perfect we need to do is maybe like it's a little bit shorter right so they gave really good no - my parents were like rather the nicest individuals and it's like you're you repeat yeah he's kinda Holloway so explain what agent being agent is again it's just basically notes and like that whole convincing someone to do something without making it without them realizing that they're being convinced to do it or offending them and that's an art yeah it's being it but yeah yeah it's it doesn't have to be a bad thing okay very cool okay so what kind of agent are you now I'm a literary agent for television I represent writers and directors and the television business excellent now when I mean I mean we talk a lot about indie filmmakers and I know there's a lot of any filmmakers now that are trying to go into television trying to do series and do you think it's smart to do a kind of spec you know spec at the of a show like as a proof of concept or something like that or is it better to just create a Bible or what would be the process what would you suggest well yeah actually if you have the finances to create aspects out of the show I think that it is really smart okay and I there are several examples of that that have that have worked out an example let's hear the first example would be a show that's aired on TBS search party well that the way that happened is now the talent involved was more substantial than probably where most people are starting out sure but the way that happened is they made that for on spec a short pilot for like maybe ten thousand dollars and they used that as a proof of concept for a series okay and then it was off of that they were able to take the TBS and say this is how it's supposed to look this is the style of it and that gave the executives a better understanding of Joe Don this is this people who have already succeeded in the business they I don't know I'm not sure I'm trying to remember the writer director or the Creator was there are people who were already established enough but the point is and if they hadn't done that it would never would have been bought it was only when they made it that they were able to get people interested isn't sunny it's always sunny in philadelphia that's another example they did that to us right yeah that's another example right I remember I remember that story hitting because it was done very low budge who was did they have the stars there yet or no yeah it was all I mean there weren't stars then Rob McClendon Vito wasn't with them at that point no he came in like the second or the third season okay is the network wanted to add some star power to it originally he was just Charlie day Rob mcleaney Kaitlin Olson said they weren't starting they weren't stars enough not at all they made it you cheap too constant was really were lucky because they brought it to a net to FX right at a time when they run open and willing to engage in something like that its Ritz it would be surprising if a place like HBO for example were to purchase something like that but TBS when it purchased the search party and I'm out so I had nothing to do with that this is just through what you hear through the grapevine stories you remember but they are in the process of trying to rebrand themselves so when TBS the fact that TBS is trying to rebrand themselves makes it perfect for them to take a risk on something like search party me like okay we see you trying to do something different and we want something different so we'll print listen here's the real question are you actually watching produced spec pilots i 100% watched produce vector pilot I would probably watch a pro do spec pilot before you read them before I read I would be more excited to watch it yeah because that they're putting their money where their mouth is and the role in the Doug yeah it's an it's indicating their ability to execute their vision mm-hmm can if they can't do it then it'll be apparent from but that's that's the question that I worry about like sometimes you might be better on the page then if you actually produced it if you didn't have the resources that somebody like you might be used to seeing yeah you're right they it depends on who's doing well you're a writer director and you have that ability then I mean the fact is if you want to be a talent you should be self-aware enough to know how to realize it whether you need to bring in a director or whether you need to bring in a talent and not accident yourself so if you can't execute it on your own then that should that's just a learning experience now as a package like let's say I go out and shoot a spec spot a spec yeah I let what else should they have a Bible should have a Serie of the first season written what else should they bring that is a general rule having the most you possibly can well youth the way it used to be is in broadcast television it's a pitch driven business you would go in and you would talk about an idea and it would be 30 to 40 minutes even our like bloodline remover which sold to Netflix was like a two-hour pitch when that sold and it was epic and it was detailed recently tea television has become as in like the fat fought past five six years television has become a spectrum in business as in people actually write the show and then they take it to the network's right but a spec script pile exactly now the reason it didn't used to be that way is because if an artist's execute the script and you take to the network and if they buy it what else is there for them to do the value of the network executives is in shaping the script and giving notes so usually networks executives are not willing to engage in that and right now the spec market is glutted for television everyone has a spec pilot and wants to take it out especially from baby writers it's not as unique and interesting as it was but like true detective in like 2011 whenever that's old that was aspect eyelet and they had a pilot they had a series and they had the stars attached of course so like that was essential packaging so but so so said gluttony right now up spec scripts right now so if you had a actual spec pilot shot it pulls you above yeah it separates chief it's a fraction in the same way that probably having a spec four or five years ago separated you from the crowd it was it was something different right because it was pitched before yeah and then it was if you had a second now we've taken at the exactly I mean obviously the streaming networks and Amazon Netflix and Hulu how has that affected your job your business because obviously there's so many more options and opportunities for your clients but how is that affected the market in general that you've seen in your experience well it's an important thing to say is from my perspective I'm just starting out in my career so I have my own thoughts unlike the industry but it's important to keep in mind that my position if someone is in the trenches that's that I want you I want your point of view and I want your point to be from the trenches from that from the trenches what it it's place like Netflix you sell a show to Netflix and the first thing I think about as a representative is the fact that there there are so many shows on there and the marketing push it seems the marketing push by each book behind each one is significantly less so you can sell a show to Netflix and it gets lost in the crowd it's a crowded ecosystem and as a representative that's scary because all you want for the artist is to add value to the network and an undeniable way which gives you which gives them leverage and you leverage for them to use in the marketplace and get them the best possible deal whereas with Netflix and with Amazon when you make a deal with them they are very generous in their series orders but they buy out all the territories and they own it till the end of time so the amount of money you can make is capped at the very top front exactly so you're not gonna make the amount of money you would have made had you sold it to a traditional broadcast network or even like a traditional cable network for example how do you find clients because being in the trenches as being in it as much as I can the which means what it made you work like like mad so where do you find people that you want to represent um okay here's an example all I can do is go through the examples of the peoples were actually much - oh sure yeah so I represented a writing team Tanner bean Katy Matthew send their staff writers on pitch moving right which aired on Fox so I used to work at WME which is a larger agency WME represents Dan Fogelman it was a big-name showrunner guy he had reached out to W me and made them aware of his assistant young Tanner like this guy's great he should check him out I'd saw and then the email was forwarded to the department and I'm a I my goal is to read everything as just read as much as I can so I read it and no one else did and I know no one else did because no one else reached out to him and I read this thing and I was like this is really good and I met with him I just reached out to him cold and I liked his personality he had great relationships he understood the business he had a writing partner and that's how I got involved with him so you think it helps to work in business a little bit before before with that question yeah that question the there there you do need to sort of it helps to understand how it all works now that was now as one example um you know another example is there's a client who represents named arkasha Stevenson who has a film at the festival and she made a fit she was a graduate of AFI and as an agency we became aware of her through screenings of that and if you're as in it as a representative you want to have your finger on the pulse of everything and the way to do that is to go out as much as you can to industry events to screenings to watch anything and everything there is an establishment so does that mean you're going to like you know like USC first-look or to NYU screen yeah yeah 100 cent does exactly doesn't mean you go to a lot of film festivals not just Sundance because this is the obvious one we're at Sundance by the way yeah but does that mean you go to other film festivals too smaller ones I mean are you actually doing out the yeah that's that's the idea but yeah and also being intelligent about it and you can't do everything but I'm try and do as much as you can and eventually just if you're a pinball in a machine you're bouncing around you're gonna hit things and operator now judging it's not that great it's a really good it was a good analogy if you're if you're engaging then you're going to establish relationship with people and you're gonna understand what their ambitions are and as an agent all I care about is what people want to achieve in their own lives and that's just not for artists that's for executives as well and so my conversation with people always comes to that and then when you find that out you think of ways of how you can help them so you let me let me just I just want to get this right because I'm very cautious about people actually producing respect pilot I you so against I'm not against it per se I'm cautious because it's a lot of money to do that it can be is is it still mostly that you are eating's like remote for me oh yeah sample seeing spec pilots I hardly because there's not it's a rare thing yeah we're as I'm assuming that you happen to have the money to make it and the talent and the infrastructure and the quickie air and the people and the talent and then I'm also worried that you know you're you're I'm worried about expectations because when it comes to the page I mean it people are just writing or typing that's a it's cheap it's it's more democratic in the Senate I mean but producing a spec pilot either takes a lot of money or you have to fill it with people that are names I mean so my question is are your expectations it depends I'm high it depends on your goal of who you want to be there are some writers who all they want to do is is just right and that's fine and then for that purpose it makes sense to just put it on the page and have it be undeniable there's some people wanna be writers to and directors and if that's the case that having a spec pilot he's an excellent write doesn't hurt and I mean I mean personal experience I worked on a spec pilot where I did a lot of post on it and they spent fifty sixty thousand had some names in it that's insane it is but it's not that's what happened that's why because they did it at a very high level time they had they had some phases in it but nothing no major stars some TV faces and it went nowhere and I was just like well it wasn't that bad but I was like it just because my question is ultimately my question is it has to work on the page so why even go to the process of producing it if it doesn't there's the from where my point of view I'm on besides I'm building science why would I use the agent what do you think of that it it depends on what your like this is it if you if you if you nail it on the page shouldn't that be enough but if you produce it on the film on film it just takes that edge up to the next level so do you believe that you should just work on the page you're not there's no wrong answer it's work right exactly it all needs to work if it doesn't work on the page it's not gonna work as a produce islet but if it works on the page and you produce the pilot it will probably get more attention sure then if it's descript but this is a very unique scenario yeah that's the thing which I think that's what's the best run every sixty thousand dollar produced pilot that no you know you're I'm trying to say and there is something different I I believe it should work I'm worried because a lot of our audience are newer to the business right yeah so so you have to be really careful about what you're like telling them to do or not do and and I sort of believe that some people though the write a script and for whatever reason the scripts not getting traction so then they think oh I'll make it and then it'll get traction and that's not necessarily the case no and so it's all it's about getting good advice I mean the right people if you go to the point of making the script I think I think you should have any good scripts yeah if attraction let me just ask you one last question about this and then we'll move on us how many spec pilots have you seen that have gone to show to Network been sold it's not that many I don't think has any spell you're talking about something that was written written and produced oh that you know of besides the two that I know I know there are more examples of this there there have to be right but there aren't a lot I don't think okay well think of it this way like and high maintenance mm-hm that was on Vimeo that was made by a writing and directing team Vimeo no one went to Vimeo for watching original content yeah and then they did for high maintenance then they went to HBO now if you're talking about that as aspect pilot which I would consider mmm-hmm I mean there's a spec like series that's an example of that search party as well for my understanding it's always sunny and that's where my knowledge of it ends because there will be more the future I think there will be more I think there's not something that happens often yeah I don't know do you have you ever seen it's of course not it's not the norm now but if your goal is to stand out the it will make you stand out by doing that they're not that's all have you heard of any feature films that would later turned into a TV series off of like an Indian like hey this is a great concept we love the indie film let's turn it into a series if they if the creators decided to go down that route I know their examples of this under the lights I'm gonna blink on it like truly great examples but you would look at that okay so we're not considering Friday Night Lights in any film right oh sorry you're not considering Friday Night Lights an indie film well it's just not so we can I think the bigger question is not that I don't like putting on the spot for for specific examples but the question is would you be open to watching indie films that you would have you sensing with it that question sure like I mentioned earlier a client arkasha Stephenson yes a verb she's a filmmaker who they went through yeah she has a voice and as a graduate of afi's she her goal is to make feature films what she's made are short films they're short films we've gotten her traction in television we sold an original idea that she had simply because we all to send the short film saying this is who she is this is her voice and people want to meet with her because of that so if there's a voice there then on the television side I can figure it out I know I can and I'm from my position I'm a street urchin so but I can I know I know I can figure it out if it's undeniable voice and I don't care whether it's a drawing or a play or a short film or a feature-length film I don't care can I ask um a little bit about like actually selling a script like what kind of money is involved and that is it usually scale or is it more I mean like 40 depends on the leverage you have it depends on the leverage leverage you have including me but just the lab would be if you just take it to one buyer and they're a young writer and no other place wants to buy it then you at your no position to demand high level fees right so you're you're only you're going to be getting scale something something of that nature but each each situation it's fluid and it's different and right now we're at a time where there are so many different buyers right what each is offering is is really is really different like the fact that baby writers can sell a series to Netflix and it's ordered to series off of that that's crazy but it's happening and they've got the pockets to do it and Apple might jump in to the game now to that they are in the game but really they aren't again they have upcoming series yeah insane that'll be great now so there's a series with dr. dre yeah we're all over it but yep apples is in the game and that's gonna be that's gonna be a heck of a shock in the in the market I have no idea and I have a question of all the series that are getting made like we're over 400 now I guess 416 how many of those a year yeah only they're 416 for and 26 yes yes the mayor of television that's what he said okay is the president of effects yeah yeah okay and he actually if you actually I would recommend googling John Landgraf absolutely he talks a lot about like like having too many pipes too many series actually in that it might be tapering off but here's my question yeah of all these series so four hundred plus series how many of those are by baby writers new writers humming those are really by people who already have established themselves in TV do you know just a jazz majority are from people who have already established themselves in television and the fact is if you're a young writer and you write a series is not the case that you are gonna be the sole person and control the series because when you sell it to a network any network you have to add other elements to it you need to add producers show legislation need someone in control who knows what they're doing now there are examples like mr. robot mmm the same s male so he was a feature guy he wrote a script that got on the black list and maybe like 2009 an incredibly talented writer he you wouldn't he's not it's not appropriate to call him baby oh but he's someone who is not thoroughly broken in television but when he wrote mr. robot it was just an undeniable script the season you know he was effectively I don't I don't actually know if what he was the show on or exactly I would bet I would bet he is just because his voice is so clear but he was surrounded by several things the director of it was I think was Niels Arden Oplev but someone who is extraordinarily accomplished heed anonymous content probably the best television and feature production company there is out there behind him he was surrounded by people who could help him execute his vision in the second season he I think this is the case and he wrote and directed he directed every episode oh did he yeah okay it's auteur television same if you look at the girlfriend experience on snores same example that's so Lodge Carrigan and Amy Simon's they that was all shepherded by Steven Soderbergh if they were just by themselves it probably would not have happened as it did but because they had Steven Soderbergh as the father figure and he had done the neck and he's a genius right and he gives no so he from what I understand he sold it to he brought it to Chris Albrecht's and said this is a series want to do these guys are really talented we're gonna deliver you all these episodes here all the scripts and they're like okay okay so most of them are established writers which is what I thought it was yeah how do you then establish a writer let's say somebody out of film school or somebody who's just come across your desk they're a new writer how do you establish them what's the process of eventually normally getting them through to the point where they can sell and run a show look what's that like to be able to run a show and be like okay how do you break a writer sending the material and talking about them to anyone and everyone that's why you need an agent how much how much material do they need for you to send it can just be one yeah respect pilot original spec pilot something that shows your voice could it be a screenplay yeah for that question could it be a play yeah I'm so it could be any original writing yeah that has your voice yeah and so your job is to do what then my job is to call people meet people tell them about this artist why they're incredible and why they should be in business with them and then half the job is the writing is half the job also the personality of the writer yeah the being in the room is that literally half or so yeah if not more so so just in the there there being good in the room hmm so what that was my next question what do you look for in a new client I wouldn't I want to I want leaders those that move well here's an example there was someone who there's an exceptionally talented writer director who I was really interested in and I went to a screening of her work and it was a it was a panel of women is what it was and they were all talking about their ambitions after that he showed the short film at the panel itself she in my opinion dominated she was just the unquestionable leader of it and she had the most vision she was the most aggressive she was the funniest and she was the smartest and she made such a clear impression that even from all the way in the back of the theater I could tell like this person is going places she was just a force personality yeah this other personality is a huge aspect of it and if you're talking about representing showrunners and representing directors you want to represent field marshals of their crafts and that's so that's the that's what I look forward primer Lee and of course the talent okay so then you're sending them out there you're sending the scripts out for people to read mmm they go to the meetings yeah what happens how do you get how to get the money how to get them working and your job is to frame it right set the table it's they start with generals they mean with each other they talk about their shared path pass the the hope is that when you set a general meeting and in talking about and then when the agent and the manager prep them appropriately they can go in knowing what the potential opportunities are at that Network so you set them up with a studio or production company and they can touch on what they are personally interested in about the production company or the studio or the network if the production if if you can bring it up to them saying showing you've done your research then that's gonna be a more engaging conversation and hopefully what comes out of it is they're keeping you in mind for the opportunities that whether it's a staffing opportunity whether it's a directing opportunity they leave the meeting thinking that you would be someone that they would want to work with so that's really why you need to have a personality know what advice do you give someone who's just trying to break in trying to get just trying to break in trying to break in trying to get an agent what's what's what do you suggest what's your advice it's all this is all I mean really trite and right let me try these were callers I say yeah be yourself have your agent allows yeah having original voice but that don't people can think they have original voice and they don't know that doesn't really that really doesn't really do much it's just so trite I'm sorry um be work just work crazy hard if you're obsessed then that I mean that that's the most important thing but then then again people can think they're obsessed and they're not they can think they're working hard and they're not okay so you just you have to have a realistic perspective on where you stand and how you compare and I have such an appetite in a way be so insecure about your position and if you are it's because you realize about where you stand and the potential that you have and how far that gap is and that's what gives you the drive to put in the work and put in the time and reach that potential also can we can we have to be self-aware in a word being somewhere sure can we go the origin story yeah sure get your origin story yeah how did you start it backward why a section yeah well we're kind of playing around a little bit to see to see what works sometimes people like origin story first sometimes they like something like that pops first imagine you just play around aren't you having Elijah Wood in this program mmm yes are gonna do an origin story for Elijah Wood no no no I mean you have to tailor a little bit too I mean I thought the coolest thing for you was that I mean you just got promoted I mean it's 2016 like you know Merry Christmas my project I promise you my promotion story is not that cool there are a way I respect for what they did then Bravo ah but they're way cooler promotion stories at WME Hugh Jackman came up on the screen and promoted Patrick Weitzel's assistant to agents nice yeah stuff like that like that is cool Mike and Elizabeth Doyle stumbling through lines that's not after notes yeah you got into what's it called and that was the next-gen or what was it yeah it was variety new leaders new leaders yeah there's that word again leaders from where dual school what did you know you do this Virginia Virginia in Arlington Virginia five minutes from DC the probably the most important thing about my background is that they're the most defining thing about it was the fact that I was a twin I really wanted to be different than him so from a young age I gravitated towards a career because if I knew I knew if I could be really specific about that then no one would have that on me entertainment it was what I focused on initially and from a pretty young age it was being an agent I didn't know what it meant really so you were when you were young you were like I want to be an agent yeah Wow you don't see how old were you when you knew that and why 14 did you have big old on on you well no no I see that made you want to be in that's kind of it was an article about Richard Lovett Bryan lourd Kevin vane David O Connor see there's an LA Times article and after they assumed the mantle at CAA and that article and it's sort of profiled them all like there were Backstreet Boys and then there was an Oracle operator loved it and reading about his personality I it happened at just the right time where I was trying to find I was my problems were nothing in the scheme of things but at the time emotionally I was like who am i as a person that just happens when you're getting older and how can I be special and how am i different and I really respond to reading about his personality and the ethos he seems to embody and so I was like okay I think I think I could do that so for those people out there read powerhouse which is the whole see a story and read the agency which is also really good if you're interested in this world and there are a lot of there a lot of great books treat the mailroom let me read this is not about Rita Keys the kingdom by Kim masters Tim masters yeah I love keys to the kingdom yeah that's great it's not it's not talked about as much yeah I think that's that's if you want to talk about like Mike Eisner and Mike Ovitz that's look it it's goes into the details about three personalities Jeffrey Katzenberg Mike Eisner Michael Ovitz but and how their relationships intertwined interlocked and how they affect each other and it's fascinating and also why the business is the way it is because there was a specific incident well what happened since we're here and something in the winter time Frankie wells who was a very important person in the business he was like the number two really yet Disney died when he he was like a like a ultimate skier like he would jump out of helicopters mm-hmm and there was a helicopter accident you know they died but when he died that set off a chain of events that like really changed the whole structure of the business which is related abounding DreamWorks led to the founding of DreamWorks led to the change of seeing the 2.0 but anyway yeah we digress that's a good story the other one book I was when I was in Florida and had no interactions with Hollywood I read oh this yeah oh yeah and that was just like my mind was blown was like you know all the whole story of how he did it and what he did I wouldn't call that journalism though no it's just that is that was propaganda that was carefully manufactured propaganda yeah but it was fascinating read sure for someone who had never been at that point not sure what's so you right liked you like the The Young Turks I did see a a I do called them and still do okay yeah and so then what was your what haja go by so I I went to college in Virginia my parents told me you go in state I graduated after Virginia has no connection to entertainment and actually maybe I it was it was on me for not doing my research and trying to figure it out they probably had that no they have like some connections like Tina Fey did Winston so the I graduated after my third year and I moved out here now the summer after my second year of college I had interned in Los Angeles spent a very lonely summer interning a to production companies that's where I met you at your USC class and try to get a sense of of agency stuff and I tried to brand myself as the guy wants to be an agent and I sat down with Lars thieriot Lars and I see him yeah yeah two minutes late for the meeting I'm an idiot I'm an idiot so it but it worked out apparently we gotta get Lars on this show who knows what I've had could have been so I sat down with it yeah so I sat down with agents and I was so unpolished even more so than I am now and I was just like I want to be an agent this is the person I want to be and it was kind of ridiculous and then I came back after I was an unpaid intern when after I graduated from school at the bottom and sure at pictures Lorenzo de Bono Ventura who produced the Transformers yeah what else so he's a former president of Warner Brothers but I so I was an unpaid intern at his production company and where no one made eye contact with me completely well I think I made people uncomfortable because what are you like snooping through their cars no I as a guy and I think I was just sloppy and I was super aggressive and I was just although he had no finesse and fur and fur that I wasn't getting paid so they probably felt sorry for me we go he would what it was essential if I hadn't done that here's what he's mad with that I developed relationships and I got a better understanding of how the industry worked but the most important thing was the relationship I developed with an assistant there the assistant I'm gonna get your shot Sarah woman who was so hard on me but even for all that she was essential in me getting my job at the first agency I worked at w me she submitted me to a guy who was Orion manuals assistant and Ari Emanuel is dyslexic his assistants at times have the prerogative to send emails on his back and to make a long story short she sent his assistant my resume he sent my resume to HR from Ari and so that's why I was hired because they thought that Lori was recommending me great LA so that's how I got in so I started in the mailroom and no idea what I was doing I was in the middle for four months then I worked for a feature agent Simon favor for seven months when he covered Sundance then I moved over to television I worked for Mark Worman in the television Department and and I work for David Stone and I was there for years and I was an agent trainee usually takes about I say probably five to six years to get promoted is it really that long jeez used to be shorter yeah like three or four people get promoted quicker yeah it but it so much of it is who you work for at the right time yes it used to be that CAA it takes like five and a half years six years to get promoted but recently for a lot of reasons people get promoted a lot quicker there because they just had the need in a ways they didn't have before mm-hmm so so I was there I was trying to figure out a way to get promoted and a and you're always weren't saying like describe some of your hours cuz I yeah they were crazy I were pretty hard I got in seven thirty and I was there till 10:30 or 11:00 how often almost every night for how long years yeah did you ever sleep there no I never did that I never slept there that's like really were other people working at that level or just some people did you ever see anyone sleeping yeah people said they're deep but here's the thing water seeds to its own level so in this business in this day and age with technology anyone can justify working all the time because there's always things to do I was but and if you're a workaholic and you need something to justify me in your life you're gonna do it all the time and that's what I was doing and additionally I was holding on so tight because I was so scared it would go away at any moment that way I got in was so random that I and I felt I didn't fit in and so I felt truly that would be fired and frankly working for Simon Faber I was a in the first three months he I thought he was tough on he wasn't harder bosses would have fired me staying with Korman same with David stone all of those agents they looking back they could have easily let me go and it would have been fair so I worked really hard to compensate for that because I felt if I if I'm working all the time they can say to me that you know you're not giving it your all and so like that's the what's why I had and that's why I held on to show my value isn't it doesn't have to be that way though and also I mean it's certainly not healthy but rather than working from 7:30 to 10:30 and then leaving it's way better to be more intelligent about how you spend your time however you can do that and it probably was not nearly I've gotten a lot smarter about how I spend my time so while I work a lot now it's not about being in the office now it's about getting out there and seeing people having breakfast lunches dinners coffees drinks every single day of the week and not defining myself by the guys in the office you're my favorite story I just don't see if you have anything to say about this again I don't say the whole name but it's Jairo he's a manager now my favorite story out of everybody who I've ever interviewed or talked to or met in any class when he was a creative executive at Warner Brothers yeah creative executive would mean that he was he just been made an executive so yeah but he was a kind of the low end and a long ways to go anyway the what brought this up was what you mentioning going out for breakfast lunch and dinner he would go out for breakfast lunch and dinner every sing every single day every single day and he said to us that he had not set foot in a grocery store in over a year because every day of the week he did breakfast lunch and dinner with somebody and it was all paid for by Warner Brothers sure [Laughter] respect great well I wanted also ask you what made you want to be a literary agent and also literary agent and television those two well I came out here for the features right I knew it was a gradual process of discovering what it meant when I when I first was telling myself I wanted to be an agent I didn't know that I was divided into different departments you know I just saw which would love it represents Will Smith and he represents Steven Spielberg okay cool I started in the future Department because I'm really passionate about film and directors of it it was just clear when I moved over to television that that's where the momentum in the industry was as far as financial promise and also artistic promise so when also secondly I all I cared about for being an agent was understanding the different arenas so I could advise accordingly if you look like it at an agent like Ari Emanuel his brilliance as an agent and his brilliance of running an agency is understanding all these different businesses and how they work he started in television with and then he started then endeavor was founded he starts representing Mark Wahlberg he starts representing his former roommate Pete Berg who is an aspiring actor turned him into a director and I mean for Mark Wahlberg for example he takes this actor and then he built a business producing television producing unscripted shows movies and it's incredible that's the value of being an agent knowing how to grow and build someone not just in one field but multiple fields so that was the additional benefit of that I love I love film and I want to continue to stay involved in that my relationships in it or not what they are in television but watch I wanted to just ask what agencies are separated like an agency WME or CIA or UTA ICM they have different divisions deployments can you tell us like break it down share so it's motion picture lit motion picture literary representing writers and directors for film motion picture our sorry television Lee representing writers and directors for television on scripted representing reality stars and production companies for reality television and talent and I don't picture Thailand on TV tow it depends you know @w needed and they had agents who focused on television talent but it wasn't clear departments they jump back and forth ten times yeah yeah I mean now especially with the more and more yeah I mean frankly in my mind nothing anyone cares what I think but it's all becoming the same like but if you're in a feature agent and you're at Sundance and like just last year for example Netflix name is on or making the most purchases okay and a year before that or twos before that layer people were just wrapping their heads around the idea of them as television distributors it's like well they're not even television in there's stringent lat form and they're streaming long-form content and short form content yet so it's all it's all mixing yeah this year's Sundance is the first year that they have episodic television in this part of the festival yes for my client our conscious Stevenson's film festivities berry talented a going to do webseries relatively soon yeah that make sense which yeah because the lines are blurring well I was like we were talking last night when we went to dinner with walking Main Street and we see YouTube yeah and was just like man things have changed like you know eight years ago when I came you know it was like to you - what's the ball yeah that's right it's it's insane no I think I think I think I'm alright thank you sir so much just watch Jeff fun I did interview I did have fun awesome yeah I love Elijah Wood and happy to be [Laughter] as well but really just a fan of name three of your favorite films of all time okay this shouldn't be this hard Matthew come on a lot of people it's hard this is not a hard question no I know but I want it needs to be impressive know just what you like it could be something as silly as look number one ET then Star Wars done yeah I think all Toy Story 4 stuff okay let's go Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom awesome really yeah more than Raiders yet more than Raiders what do you think don't judge sir don't thought you likes judge I don't don't Joseph but if you do like phantom as Neely's yes okay um raise the Lost Ark okay umber - wait no no that's so wrong aliens is number two okay aliens board an alien yeah I could do that oh yeah yeah absolutely see that this is a generational thing whiplash horse with land then frankly any movie with Elijah Wood absolutely absolutely thank you my friend keep that part in okay thank you so much appreciate it but Matt was great I loved having him on the show and again it gave me it gave me personal insight on what the television market is looking for as far as writers are concerned and pilots and and shows so I hope you guys learned a lot and picked up a few knowledge bombs that was dropped by Matthew thanks again Matthew for being on the show we really really appreciate it and if you want the show notes and contact information for Matthew just head over to indie film hustle comm /b PS zero one six for the show notes and if you guys haven't already done so please head over to screenwriting podcast.com and leave us a good review of five star review if possible on iTunes it really helps us out a lot and really helps us with the rankings we're a new show so every single review counts and helps so thank you so so much and as always keep on writing no matter what I'll talk to you soon thanks for listening to the bulletproof Screenplay podcast at bulletproof screenplay comm fifty u ll e PR oo f SC re n pla y dot-com [Music]

Channel: Indie Film Hustle

Views: 868

Keywords: spreaker, agent, filmmaker, filmmaking, screenplay, screenwriting, tv, verve, Matthew Doyle, Verve Talent

Id: Rf4aGJC2SgM

Length: 52min 56sec (3176 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 12 2018