How to participate your way to Freedom by being a ‘lunatic’ farmer with Joel Salatin

[Applause] foreign [Music] body soil podcast a podcast where we explore the innate connection between the mind the body and the soil this podcast is proudly brought to you by smart soil smart soil is an online education platform creating courses and providing resources from Farmers for Farmers join us as we share the stories and experiences from those dedicated to regenerating ecosystems communities and human beings all right this week on the Mind Body Soul podcast we are honored and gratefully receiving broadcasting with Joel salaton of polyface farm um where do I what do I what else do I have to say really um what a legend everyone should know about Joel if not go check out his work I'm looking forward to hopefully receiving your bio um so I can rattle that off because it's one of the best bios I've I've heard with the um what what do you call yourself again Joel um well the the Christian libertarian environmentalist uh capitalist lunatic farmer that's the one um what a bloody Beauty and um yeah so today hoping to um to cross uh go across a couple of topics try and tie um soil Health into mental health and Pharma Health Dive Into Summer Joel's practices and and how he is still able to remain such a resilient and healthy character even though he's what what do you know 60 60 odd now Joel I'll be I'll be I'll be 66 in a couple weeks you are not looking a day over 50. well done thank you Tom tell my wife okay I like to I like to start Joel um with our guests and just to recall an impactful moment from their journey and and sort of what what was that aha moment that really that Lit the fire for you and set you on your path to farming yeah well it would probably be two probably the the first one was uh was when I was 10 years old and got my first uh batch of little chicks from Sears and Roebuck uh the Sears and Roebuck mail order uh catalog outfit and I got 50 50 little chicks and had them in a box down in the basement under a under a light bulb and um that was just just magic uh but the other uh I don't think I realized how important it was until later in life and that was that you know we came to this Farm in 1961 and it was uh an eroded gullied rock pile those of you know people have read you know about what I've how I've described the farm when it was like when we came here uh it was I mean it was it was cheap it was the the armpit of the community and um and and you know we tried to plant vegetables in the garden and it was just clay clods and you know all this well my grandfather uh my dad's dad lived in Indiana and he was a very early uh early adherent of rodel's organic gardening and farming magazine he had a big compost pile had a little flock of chickens and and um and and and he had this very large garden you know it was probably a quarter acre which is a pretty good sized Garden and it was it was completely lined with a tea trellis uh Arbor of grapes so these grapes are up you know and they're on this this this uh tea top of course because we were farming we could never go visit them until late in the summer after we'd made hay and all that stuff so every time we'd go up there the grapes were ripe it was the season for grapes and as a little kid I would go out there and just just these these bushels and bushels of grapes that were that I could just reach as a kid you know up above my head they were just oozing oozing juice and sweetness and and that to be and in the garden the garden was amazing and so here we were on this Hard Scrabble Hard Scrabble place with dirt clods clay you know all this and I go up there and and I realized Looking Back Now that that was that that I just in the Deep subconscious I wanted to be able to walk out into an immersion of abundance and and I I wanted at some point to be able to have a place like Grandpa's uh that was that fertile that abundant that you know soil just black you know down and um and and that was that was again I don't think I had all that you know the conscious part of that as a little child but but As I Grew Older I realized that that juxtaposition of our Hard Scrabble rock pile versus Grandpa's uh um abundance that that gave me this desire to can I can I make our infertile Hard Scrabble place can I make that like Grandpa's place yeah wow that's it's beautiful and I guess recognizing that abundance um and that it is possible and seeing how it should look yes um so so how is it looking today out at polyface Joe and how's it how's the journey been yeah well I mean that's the that's the joy of my life you know uh that that I mean I was four I was four when we came here so I've been here now 62 years and uh and I can remember as a little child walking walking the whole farm and being able to walk and not step on grass because it was that sparse you know um and I remember these uh these deep gullies uh I remember large areas you know um uh maybe maybe a quarter of a hectare you know pretty large and they were just like like saucers of rocks in the fields in fact we had so little little soil that when dad started with electric fencing to to move the cows around he poured concrete in car tires pushed a half inch pipe down in it and he'd pile these these uh these concrete stanchions on the tractor platform and my brother and I you know we were little kids but the two of us could get on the edge of these these uh concrete tires and heave them off as dad drove down the field then he'd stick the electric fence down in those half inch pipes to build electric fence and because we didn't have enough soil to hold up electric fence stakes and today today all of those areas have um well I mean I'm I'm inches 12 inches so you know we're talking about uh whatever 100 300 mil oh no yeah 300 yeah three yeah yeah it'd be 300 mil of of soil on them now it's not you know it's not real deep like it was back 400 years ago but it's uh but but 300 mil is better than zero absolutely and uh and we don't use the tires anymore there's enough soil to hold up electric fence things and uh we we don't you can't see where those areas were unless we get into a real severe drought and then obviously they you know they get drier they get drier faster but otherwise you know uh people don't even realize I know what's under there but most people wouldn't know what's under there so so how is that possible Joel I mean it uh according to I mean Modern Day science and a lot of scientific scientific literature it takes a thousand years to to build in inches and at a top soil so how have you accelerated that that process and um and and built back that soil sure so it's a combination of things it's not just one thing you know it's uh this this soil building thing is kind of a recipe and so uh so obviously the first thing we did was we didn't plow you know we we let it go to we let it go to perennials and then we started we started the the controlled grazing and it was it you know early on in the 60s um you know before uh before uh uh Gallagher and uh and speed ride and you know all the big electric fence companies were operating we we were it was very primitive you know with steel wire and a little you know Energizer that was that was powered by the the um oh the points and condensers out of an automobile you know that's what that's what pulse the uh that's what pulls the Energizer anyway um you know we started moving the cows around and uh that was that was a game changer you know because that that allowed what was there to you know to grow up better and um and then then we'd we built a shade mobile so we could we could move that with the cows and put the and put the manure right where we wanted it instead of where the cows wanted it we could place that manure and that was that was instrumental in um in allowing us to concentrate as a strategy to be able to concentrate the pasture droppings where we wanted them and not lose them in a creek or under a tree or something like that so that was critical and then we started with the chickens and the chickens uh of course you know uh chickens now now let's agree so we're importing grain we're I get it okay we're importing grain for the chickens but we're importing grain from places Downstream that are in Low Land you know that that probably has some of the soil that washed off our place you know back years ago and and so uh so the chickens start running on it and then the final uh thing that the the a big game changer a really accelerator was when we started toward composting and we started doing composting in a in a big way uh back as early as whatever 19 I don't know I was maybe 14 or 15 when we went and bought our first wood chipper uh so this would have been the early early 70s and we bought a wood chipper and began chipping chipping tree branches and things composting that and putting that out on the field and so the combination of of perennials control grazing multi-speciation concentrated pasture droppings and compost those kind of four elements um allowed us to you know to to stimulate to stimulate the soil development you know faster and faster than it would under just normal conditions absolutely and like you say I loved it you said it wasn't just one answer because I think a lot of the time nowadays we're looking for that Silver Bullet but it always is a um you know a device a diverse range of things so um so thanks for touching on that and and back in those days Joe I mean who inspired you to I mean to start moving the animals like that were there any influential fingers figures around I mean we had Boyson and and folk like that um uh my my dad my dad um got a hold of some voicing stuff early very early and um and you know that is still you know grass productivity uh voicing that's still kind of the you know the Bible of the you know of this uh this uh grazing management movement and um so you know you know I didn't develop this Dad Dad got it from uh from voicine and you know uh voicine was just kind of hitting the world it his research was done in France in the in the late 40s and early 50s so when we came here in 61 um he was just he was just hitting on the world stage is what I'm getting at you know he was he was right he was he was more popular then than he was through the 70s 80s and 90s now people are rediscovering him but uh but at that time he was he had he had a lot to offer and so dad got a hold of this it certainly made sense because it it does make sense and uh um and and that's that's what we started uh grazing our problem was and you know so people ask me well do you think you could have accelerated It Well yeah if if we knew then and if we had the infrastructure now you know computer microchip energizers and and poly braid and and you know these kind of things if we had had all that then that we have today I'm confident we could have we could have gotten where we've gone in in a third of the time uh and now you know we lease we lease several properties in the area and um it's so fun to go on these places and every year it doesn't matter if it's a good year bad year or whatever every year when we go on in the first year we double their production double it and so so um uh you know we we know what can be done and uh yeah Dad was heavily influenced by poison yes that's that's incredible and you know back in those days we didn't also have the internet I mean that's quite a big change you know so for boys in to get his message out I mean um so it was obviously yeah well I mean people yeah well people were buying books back then you can see what's behind me you know and I'm a book guy okay and uh and and so people were buying books in fact uh when Ed Faulkner when Ed Faulkner wrote plowman's Folly in I think it was 1950 1951 uh when he wrote plowman's Folly and started um started questioning the fact questioning the mo board plow and um and when he did that think about this a book by the by the title plowman's folly sold 500 000 copies in six months it was a runaway bestseller um but but of course at that time America the U.S you know had had uh ten times as many farmers as we have today so that you know the client base was was quite large but it but imagine a book of that title selling 500 I mean you couldn't sell that many in the whole world today you know uh of that of that title and so uh so yeah it's it's it's pretty amazing some of the power that that some of these books had at that at that time absolutely do you think I um a relevant title maybe for the 21st century would be something like industrial agriculture's folly or something I mean I'm sure you're probably better at titling books than me I mean you've written a couple sure sure um yeah uh yeah certainly that has you know that has run its course and I mean um my my book that that is that that deals with the Follies of the whole uh current conventional agriculture mindset is the sheer Ecstasy of being a lunatic farmer and um I I call I call that my soul book you know when people come up and say oh come on farming's farming cows or cows you know corn is corn doesn't matter what you do this book was written for you because this this contrasts it contrasts the conventional Ortho the chemical conventional Orthodoxy today with a with a biological carbon-based approach and it's uh and and there's a lot of satire and humor in it I mean it's it's a it's a fun book fantastic and um I think that's that's all part of it you know and probably one of the most important parts of it we take things too seriously don't we you know yeah um and I've noticed that about your work and I love that about you series and it's infectious that you're just happy you know and and it it um bleeds through all your work and I I and that's really what I want to try and dive into and drill into a bit today is is how do you cultivate that and um you know because you're obviously so busy too I mean Farmers struggle a lot with burnout like you said it's hard to get off the farm to even go see your grandpa um back in the day when you're so busy and that's often an excuse we hear is you're so busy to even make a change um right so what are some of the the habits or um techniques or whatever you want to call it that that you think help you to establish that that mindset that peace of mind that happiness um yeah well I think I think the uh the the main thing is to have a a sacred righteous Mission and know what it is you know Alan Savory of course you know Ellen Savory is is just wonderful certainly one of my uh mentors and if if if you boiled what Alan Savory has done down to one thing one thing in my view it is the mission statement because um a mission statement is our why it's it's our why and you know Simon sinek has written a lot about this in fact he has a book you know sell the why and um you know all of us know all of us know what we do some people know how we do it but very few people can articulate why and I think that the mission statement gets us to a why so um so you know our mission statement here is to develop environmentally emotionally and economically enhancing agricultural prototypes and facilitate their duplication throughout the world very simple very concise but that's a but anybody listen here hearing that is struck by well that's big that's a big mission and and I've heard it said that if you're if you're uh mission can be accomplished in a lifetime it's too small you need a mission that you need a mission that's bigger than you that touches life bigger than you and uh and so for me uh you know what what drives me is that Clarity of mission and then I would say the Gratitude of knowing you mean I get to go out and and touch this this womb this ecological umbilical I get to touch it uh talk about I mean that's both a privilege and a big responsibility but to be able to go out and just and just jump in off the back porch and immerse in this this abundance and and As a caretaker of this that's so bigger than me um is a is a wonderful thing and I I think I think too often uh too often Farmers see themselves as well I've got to feed the world or I've gotta you know as some sort of obligatory thing and of course the you know the agriculture experts push this they push this agenda you Farmer Joe you'd better do this that or or or they're going to starve in Sri Lanka you know they're gonna uh and so these farmers walk around with this big you know burden on their back uh that's that's an incredible it's a it's an incredible um um hindrance isn't it yeah yeah it is it's a well yeah yeah it's it's a it's a weight it's a weight on their shoulders uh and so one of the one of the first things that I like to do when I talk to Farmers is is um you know what you're not responsible for the children dying in Bangladesh you're not responsible for the kids that are suffering in in Kenya uh nobody in the world is starving because there's not enough food uh what you're responsible for number one you're responsible for your earthworms you're responsible for the you're responsible for the for the sun beams that are hitting your farm are they are they being converted to biomass or is a leaf catching those sunbeams uh when a raindrop Falls it's the Raindrop um hitting uh hitting a blade of grass so it so it shatters into a mist and comes onto the ground like a like a gentle mist or is it pounding on Hard Rock like a bunch of bombs being dropped by you know uh fighter jets um you know those those are the things if you if you can get out if you can get out from under this this this uh political this political obligatory burden and just see for a moment the the privilege the responsibility and the opportunity of of caressing caressing our ecological womb as if it's if it's as if it's a lover you know we're farmers are told all the time that nature is a nature is a hard partner you know there's Grasshoppers and there's drought and there's hot and there's cold in there all right you know and and so we have to subdue nature like some sort of a reluctant a reluctant partner and I'm gonna get you I'm gonna make you do this you know yeah yeah we're actually actually nature is a benevolent lover that just wants to be caressed in the right places not Joe that's stunning um thank you thank you for that um and you you're too right that it's not just the farmers that are that are sucked into all this as well you know it's it's a of the world we live in is now all the world's problems are everyone else's you know like the media is very good at doing that so um it's and so once you start ramping on again more weight on onto these Farmers backs with debts and pressure and um you know family all sorts of all sorts of other stuff I mean it's it is a hard craft but as you say if you can tap into that rewarding side of it and be grateful um that we get to be a part of it I mean that's unbelievable well when you yeah when you uh David when you have when you have something like for example the war in uh the war in uh in Ukraine and I'm sure you're hearing in Australia as well the the escalating price of fertilizer uh from you know because Russia makes all this chemical fertilizer and sells it all over the world and and so here in the U.S I think I think a lot of the chemical fertilizer prices have jumped uh 300 to 400 percent you know in the last 12 months and and and so so when you when you couple when you couple that kind of of um that kind of effect in your life that there there's nothing a farmer can do about that you know I I can't I can't change that at all now at our farm we just laugh and realize well we don't buy any of us so it doesn't make any difference to us but but but to the average farmer who is completely dependent on something outside his control but he's still obligated to produce the wheat or the corn or the the chicken or whatever it is for the starving kids in Bangladesh um and that and that burden is still there the the um you know the requirement is still there but but his costs and his his um you know his business plan is completely outside his control it it becomes it becomes an emotional nightmare yeah and and continually fluctuates because you're like yeah it's all out of your control um so in your experience then Joe are you saying uh Farmers that make this shift towards this more ecological approach are they they're generally happier in your experience and they I imagine in a lot of cases it would transform them oh absolutely it does and it's but it's um it's actually it's actually quite hard uh certainly people do it but it's actually quite hard to uh to make the transition um especially if you're big uh the bigger you are the harder it is to turn the ship but uh so there is an advantage in being uh and being a little bit smaller you know if you're going to make those changes but uh yes absolutely when people come out and and and so suddenly now I realize well I'm just depending on the water the sun you know and and and yes uh they I I I can't control the water in the sun I get that but they're not controlled by politics either they're not controlled by by some you know crazy guy somewhere yeah yeah board of directors right uh uh stockholders shareholders it's it's something else and in and in the in the biggest in the biggest scheme of things okay all of that is is a benevolent provision whatever it is whatever it is it's a benevolent provision it's not it's not subject to the whims of of politics and wars and and people and and so yes I am dependent on on uh uh you know on sun and water I am dependent on that but there's a difference being dependent on something that's out of my control that's com that's out of Humanity's control versus just out of my control because somebody else controls it yes exactly something that that someone can flick a switch in it turns you know yeah yeah yes absolutely and I mean that's been going on for from this the dawn of time you know right relying on the sun to rise I mean that's part of being human isn't it yes that's right and and that talks to something that I heard you say and and I think it must be one of your most recent podcasts but um and I'll paraphrase a little bit and you can you can fix it up for me a bit but um so the way that we have traded our convenience uh sorry we've traded work um and you know labor and etc for convenience and how that has actually made us unhappier and less resilient and um yeah I just that's just so profound to me and it's it's a beautiful statement because it it's across the board it's not just farming it's it's everyone Yeah well yeah I think I think uh uh where I where I went with that was I was talking about uh participation and we have uh for for decades now at least in our you know sophisticated Western you know mindset uh we we have kind of marginalized if not demonized um participating in the foundations of Life uh like growing growing food s you know the things that give people you know calluses and splinters on their hands um the the culture has kind of has kind of pushed that into well that's um that's marginal work you know that that's that's blue collar unsophisticated you know uh um uh dumb people do that smart people don't do that and and that's kind of been the you know the the mindset of the culture and and the whole the whole thing has been predicated on uh you don't have to participate in that don't worry the multinational food conglomerates you know they'll they'll put they'll put it on your table and it'll be convenient and that'll give you more time to keep up with the Kardashians and the football league and and uh the latest movie and be able to go to the fashion fashion show and blah blah blah blah blah right and so we we've been we've been kind of we've been kind of uh preached this sermon now for quite some time um as if as if freedom came from not participating in the humdrum work of foundational existence well here we are suddenly postcovid and there's this big Epiphany now people are realizing wow the folks who continued to participate who planted Gardens butchered cows made bologna you know cut Lumber the people that continue to participate in those foundational aspects of life like like we call chores the people who chose to participate they are the ones that are freed you know on our farm we chose to participate in the carbon cycle so so we were not we were not freed from the carbon cycle by just by the chemical fertilizer and you don't have to compost and you don't have to worry about this carbon cycle well we opted to participate in the carbon cycle realizing how important it was and now suddenly guess who is free we're free from Vladimir Putin we're free from Ukraine we're free from the multinational corporations and so the the the point is that the more you participate that that we were sold a bill of goods we were told that that you've get you get freedom you get Freedom by by letting somebody else do all that actually the opposite is true true Freedom comes by actively participating in these fundamentals of of life and that's what makes us uh human you know and um I mean it sort of ties back to the to the why again and this Quest remaining and fulfillment um and I think a lot of that with this the trade-off has been you know where a lot of us are stripped of meaning and um we don't really have a compass of where to go or or how we can engage and how we can participate in a meaningful existence anymore you know that's that's sort of being taken away a little bit of the time I mean now we've got I mean even this rise of AI thing and I think a couple of years ago you even mentioned this um the dehumanization of you know with the mask wearing and you can't see people smiling and now with AI writing everyone's work and you know it's it is it does feel increasingly like there is a push for dehumanization um and I'm interested yeah yeah they're they're yeah they're again they're again we're being told you don't have to write just let the machine write well I guarantee you I guarantee you that at some point at some point that there will be a there will be a a Black Swan there will be a Black Swan that arises to realize oh maybe maybe we should have maybe we should we should have continued to participate maybe we shouldn't have just given all that over to to uh to some other you know other uh AI entity and and yeah I I think I think that this lesson is just a really powerful and profound lesson because because you know what are you free to do I mean you may not know this but in the U.S right now the latest um whatever uh surveys show that in in the U.S right now males so men between 25 and 35 years old the average American male 25 to 35 years old spends 20 hours a week playing video games 20 hours a week that's average that's average playing video games so so what does this what does this convenience this lack of participation what does it do um it actually turns you into a zombie uh you know you just think if those if those average 20 hours a week could be were were put to learning how to repair an engine uh install Plumbing um weld uh plant a garden can can you know a lacto ferment I mean you know uh doesn't it yeah yeah the list goes on all all these lost all these lost uh craft skills yeah wow that's that's unbelievable I was not aware of that of that statistic and that is terrifying and I imagine even as you go lower with the ages I mean it's probably higher it just even the amount of screen time sure there was a study actually that I think that came out of Australia that was something like kids spend you know I think it's like one or two hours outside to every six or seven hours I have on a screen and yeah that's right it's just terrifying uh it is a terrifying statistic and then we wonder why we're disconnected from nature while we're miserable why we have lack of purpose I mean go figure yeah and why why we don't even have an immune system you know uh Finland Finland has done probably the world's greatest work on tying the the human microbiome and the overall immunity system to our connection with soil and uh and and even even a farm you know they've done all these studies with like Urban kids compared to kids that that you know are out in the in the dairy barn uh in their stroller you know and they're probably you know picking up a little bit of manure and putting it in their mouth and things like that as little infants and and what they found is that the the immunological the the immune function uh in those kids is just is is off the charts uh uh with the you know with the farm Kids versus the city kids so much so that they've actually proposed uh or actually posited what if we what if we could somehow bring Farm soil into the city to like you know uh powder powder people's noses you know with with Farm soil just just to bring um just to bring that into contact with people to feed their their microbiome and uh and so you know I I've thought here in the U.S what I need to do is start I need to start a new business where you got your welcome mat you know at your house Welcome Matt well we need we need to make a a permeable one you know uh it's like a thin bladder you know we can stuff a bunch of compost and soil in there and and we'll sell subscriptions to City people that can subscribe to our service and we'll every quarter we'll come and we'll dump out the old and put in new so they can stop on it and you know and and Waller around in it and uh and they'll get a they'll get our farm microbes in their city house and they'll actually be healthier well you have your first customer right here Joe I'll sign up okay that that's freaking awesome I love that and and thanks for taking it um this direction because I mean this is The Cutting Edge of science you know I mean with all the developments that have happened in the last 10 20 30 40 40 years with the microbiome and and soil I mean it's yes fascinating and who's to say well I mean the the conversation around the immune system is incredibly important at this time I mean people need to rebuild their immune systems and need all the tools available to start introducing some diversity and um things into their lives and I'd love to just tap into your uh your methods of how you I mean you're naturally with the work that you do you're you're being inoculated every day right um but yeah but I I I I inoculate on steroids um uh I those the people who know me know that I routinely drink out of the out of the water tank with the cows and I know we're you know the cows are on this side I'm on this side and uh I dream there might be some cow snot and you know some some drop Blades of grass in there but but uh I I just right down there like a cow and drink out of the cow tank and I've been doing that for years and I I honestly believe that that um you know that that that really helps you know I don't use antimicrobial soap um you know I I was just out and stoked the you know it's cold here we're in the winter so I just stoked the the wood stove out there and uh came in to eat supper and I purposely didn't wash my hands with soap I I cleaned I cleaned the basic stuff off with just water but I'm still I'm sure I've still got some you know some wood wood stuff in there you know might have some some termites or whatever uh termite poo whatever you know and and I mean this this is uh I mean I'm not talking about just being filthy but but I am saying we we need to understand the the two things that are that are uh both Paramount and identical in the microbiome is diversity how many how much diversity is in your microbiome you know as they study everything from autism to to um Alzheimer's and different things they're finding they're finding that the gut the microbes the microbes in the gut are absolutely you can you can measure them uh with fecal samples and there are these patterns of of missing whole missing species of microbes if you have this disease that disease and the other disease and and so so the complexity here's where I'm going with this the complexity of the microbiome is the is the secret to health just like the complexity of the soil is the secret to soil Health but what have we done ever since 1837 when Justice Von liebig the Austrian biochemist told us that all of life is just a rearrangement of nitrogen potassium and phosphorus and all we have to do is give the soil nitrogen potassium and phosphorus and everything will be fine that that was the ultimate simplification simplification of the soil complexity and we have been worshiping at that altar ever since 1837 as a as a as a result our soils have become more simplified our crops have become in other words all of the all of the complex nuances from from uh essential oils fatty acids the the enzymes uh the the mineral balances all those things have become simplified and so here we are now Now with an incredibly simplified microbiome and we've we've got a Health crisis uh we've got all sorts of new diseases the the life expectancy is going down instead of up and um and and and we have simplified now you know we've taken that we've taken that think about we've taken that complex uh chicken that's supposed to eat some bugs and worms and grass and some corn and and we've taken that complexity we we lock her in a house and we feed her nothing but corn and soybeans a little bit of Wheat and and we have simplified the egg we you know uh we have one of the one of the fastest ways to create more complexity in your microbiome is to eat eggs poultry and meat from animals that are on a diversified pasture where they're getting all sorts of different uh sorts of different plants that concentrate different minerals and different different uh enzymes and things and and so the the simplification um is showing up now in our depleted microbiome that's lacking its complexity and it goes all the way back to Justice Von liebig in 1837 who told us that all we are is just NPK and and the same the same model is now being adopted into human health obviously with that decline we all buy our supplements now with the you know the individual elements that we need instead of like you say eating these uh these correctly raised and produced animals uh yes that's it's fascinating and even to the point where you're talking about shipping soil into the city I mean we send a lot of food into the cities from farms right but it's not right it doesn't it's sterile a lot of it and it's a lot of it doesn't have those essential amino acids that that we require so um yeah I'd love to just highlight now uh the the difference between these commodity crops and the way that we produce food with that free element approach um and then food that that comes from these complex systems and and not just food I think it's really important to highlight here that I mean food we got fiber as well it obviously produces a superior fiber um and and also medicines I mean uh in America you have the the whole industrial cannabis complex or whatever but which I fear is has steered away from what could have been a really healthy movement that was embracing complexity again and has been uptaken by again the big players and opportunity to sell more chemicals and produce again a substance that is not what it should be um so yeah interested to hear your thoughts on this and maybe you can explain a little bit about um yeah sure so yeah yeah so you've got uh you've got hydroponic cannabis yeah crazy uh so yeah so so the the differences are the differences are pretty um pretty amazing and of course they they show up in taste uh you can tell you can tell a lot about taste I mean one of the one of the reasons kids don't like vegetables is because they're so Bland now they don't have the the popping flavor that comes with a full spectrum of mineral and uh and um enzymatic balance so we uh you know we actually participated in a test where here in the U.S where they asked um uh 12 of us in the country that did pastured eggs for example to send them to a lab to get you know um nutrient testing I think they tested 12 nutrients I'll just take one folic acid folic acid is really really important for pregnant women um but it's just an essential it's an essential fatty acid and um and so the official the official U.S department of Agriculture um you know nutrient analysis you know is on the egg carton and when they put the the nutrient labeling on there um the egg has according to the USDA has 48 48 micrograms of folic acid per egg and uh and so ours ours averaged um our ours average 1038 micrograms per egg so you know this is these these are not little 10 variations these are multiplicative values of of difference um uh you know uh like in beef uh grass-finished beef has three uh three times or three hundred percent more riboflavin than grain finished beef uh conjugated linoleic acid conjugate linoleic acid is what is what gives the um the elasticity on the synapses at your nerve endings it keeps those those uh nerve endings real Supple and um and it only takes about two to three weeks of grain feeding to chase all the conjugated linoleic acid out of the body of an herbivore and and so you know you can just go on and on and on and on with this the the the the the the um you know the the differences are are astounding and um and so you know people need to understand that when they talk about the price of when we have a cheap food policy if you have a cheap food policy you're going to have a cheap nutrient policy if you have a cheap nutrient policy you're going to have a a poor nutrition policy and a poor nutrition policy is going to put you into an expensive Health policy so you know I would I would rather see and I would rather see a um a fair price a fair price food policy and c and see a uh a cheap health policy I'd rather see that kind of uh that kind of inversion absolutely no it'd be a beautiful world wouldn't it and um yes it would and I don't think I don't think we're that Far Away Joe I mean it's like you said this Black Swan event and probably one of many to come who knows what is on the horizon I mean that's one of the very exciting things I guess about living through this and I'm sure um yeah it must just be wild for you because you have so much more experience but um you know no one knows what's going to happen from day to day so like I've like again I see the importance of what you mentioned before about relying on the sun and the and the water instead of all this other craziness because it it allows you to not get sucked into it and and you can find that that um that peaceful that piece I guess um otherwise shit's crazy yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah I just wondered you know what's next and um and what we in terms of policy I mean what what would you do in terms of how do we flip that on its head and and install something like a a um cheap health policy and a fair price of food uh system yeah well the the the the most important thing we could do to get there is just to get the government out of Agriculture and health care and so you know um I I I I I know that the Australians are not nearly as libertarian As Americans but uh um I I I'm pretty libertarian and and what what the the the problem with the government in with the government um involvement in these things whether it's agriculture health care or whatever the problem is that what you have then is a is an official they pick official winners and so official when official Winners Get arbitrarily picked you know Adam Smith In The Wealth of Nations wrote about the Invisible Hand of the market the Invisible Hand of the market you know moves things and and so um you know I mean just just to just think a minute about how how information about DDT for example DDT DDT um came out of use long before the government banned it long before uh and so and so what happens is that when you have policy and you get and you get the the public large s all the taxpayers money uh and and and funny money that's just printed out of thin air uh when you get all that and you start throwing it at certain things they will never be truly Innovative things because they will only be things that satisfy the powers that be um and so it's uh you know I I'm thinking here today today it was just announced that the U.S the U.S has agreed to sell uh what 20 uh 20 F-16 fighter jets to Turkey well here we are here we are sending billions of dollars to uh to Ukraine and and the the biggest the biggest problem Ukraine has is these um are these uh Turkish and iranian-made uh drones that come into Ukraine and so we're sending over billions of dollars to help them and then we send a bunch of Fighters to turn it it's just it's just it's just nuts it's just nuts and so um so what I would like to see is I would simply like to see the the marketplace be responsible for where we go now a lot of people say well well you know the average person isn't gonna well wait wait a minute right now the average person gets hit every day by all sorts of of uh of narrative by intellectual government accredited people that that that that plant a narrative and if if I could just go head-to-head with Monsanto for example if I could just go ahead and head with Monsanto I think I would win that argument but I'm not going head-to-head with Monsanto I'm going head-to-head with Monsanto and the U.S department of Agriculture and the Food and Drug Administration and the land-grant universities and the and the American Medical Association and you know it's a it's it's a it's a it's a stacked um it's a pretty stacked deck and so so what I would like to see is I would like to see a a defunding if we're going to defund something let's defund uh defund the manipulation of of the public largesse to pick winners and losers and let the marketplace um let the marketplace respond I mean people people desperately want uh better food but a lot of time but you know the government food regulations the um you know the food safety uh people make it so difficult for a new player to enter it uh if you want to make a chicken pot pie or you want to butcher a beef or something like that you know um in Australia it's uh it's food what is it food safe I think is the is the regulatory um uh body there and and to to pass the regulations to be able to enter the marketplace actually precludes many Innovative entrepreneurial um higher quality people from being able to enter the marketplace yeah it's you're too right and and for someone for a young fella like me that would love to get into farming or I'm sure there's plenty of other young crew out there that want to have a crack at this it makes it really challenging um to get that start you know and that's why I love your work too because you have you have the recipes of how we can make a start you know with little Capital with where you're at right so so I love that that's really empowering but like you say and then you have all this overarching bureaucrats or whatever that sort of push you out of the game I mean for us um we've just started farming um maybe in the last eight months um really small scale um but you know to then scale things up and to enter into the registering all your chickens registering your beehives blah blah blah growing your mushroom growing mushrooms that you know you need licenses and if you were to engage in all of the things they want you to do it makes it very challenging um and expensive so like you said yeah they're pushing the small guy out yeah the the regulations that the thing that people need to understand is that the regulations are scale prejudicial they're scaled Prejudice in other words they're much easier to comply with and and acquire if you're big than if you're small I mean if you need a if you need a a uh to grow mushrooms for example uh or or to you know to be able to sell your mushrooms that that's nothing if you're if you're as established business selling tractor trailer loads of mushrooms but if you're just if you're just wanting to to start and uh you know kind of play around a little bit and let's let's see what works here uh that license fee just prohibited you from being able to enter the the marketplace because because you might not sell more than a couple hundred dollars worth in a whole year and and so that that that license uh just kept you uh locked you out of the marketplace and so I look I'm not an anarchist I'm not an anarchist but I I do believe I do believe that at some point there needs to be a way for voluntary consenting adults to exercise freedom of choice about what to feed their microbiome and and and and un unless and until we allow people to actually take charge of their own microbiome and not be dependent on some bureaucrat uh that says yeah that's okay and that's not okay um we're not going to have that kind of personal autonomy which is you know it's you know who owns me I mean that's you know that's the question uh who owns me and and if if we don't have the capacity to to decide the fuel for our own microbiome uh you know what's next I mean we we tell the government get out of my bedroom get out of my marriage get out of my womb you know all these things but we don't tell the government to get out of our mouth yeah and all right that's that's huge and I love the way you phrased that that's um it's important in this day and age and and damn right we uh we have that's our fundamental human right you know that that freedom of choice and um and it's influenced across the board in every like you said with those that messaging and narrative um it's hard to make a decision or to become educated a lot of the time because there's so many opposing arguments and that's very deliberate I'm guessing um yeah well you know I would say you know if there's somebody listening that says why goodness my uh we've got to have somebody you know signing off on this food is safe what have you know uh I mean one of the last times I testified down in uh in our state capital on a on a cottage food bill um the head of the meat and poultry inspection pulled me aside uh during a break he said Joel he said we can't we can't let people uh choose their own food why we couldn't build hospitals fast enough for all the people that would get you know bad food from Bad farmers and all this stuff and and um not well the problem is uh that I can't I can't prove to him that that's not the case I don't think I think he's wrong I don't think that's true but but the problem is with the with the licensing the way it is we can't even experiment to see what freedom of choice would do uh you know we why can't the federal government say if a locality wants to wants to within their own borders offer an unregulated food transaction uh uh ability and we'll just we'll experiment we'll see a bunch of people get sick maybe that's not a good idea but what if what if really good food prices came down uh farmers were able to make a living easier and we had happy farmers and we had healthy people and you know what what if that happened and so one of our problems right now is we don't even have the freedom to experiment because of all the licensing and the compliance we don't even have the ability to experiment on innovative uh Solutions and that's a that that's a that's a shame it's dangerous it's really George danger yeah George dangerous and and and you know I'm not talking about dismantling uh food safe you know if if you're scared and you want and you want a a federal government inspector to check all your own food we'll go to woolies yeah that's what it's there for all right but but for but for people for people who want to opt out for people who want to opt out there ought to be a way for a farmer and an opt-out consumer to get together and and and and and interact in uh in transaction you know the problem is you know you can you can give away raw milk you can give away home butchered beef you can give away homemade butter but as soon as you sell it you're a criminal well what is it about exchanging money that suddenly turned it from a benevolent gift to a hazardous substance doesn't make any sense it doesn't it's backwards and um and just to clarify I wasn't saying that this idea is dangerous I was saying that the way the system is set up is dangerous yes yes that's right yeah my my eye my ideas are dangerous to the system that's for sure uh we need more we need more jello salad and we do um yeah that's there's so much there that I'd love to go into and um it's it's beautiful and it's a good idea I think to just to briefly touch on hidden costs and I know you're touching it so well um but you know what is more dangerous uh I think is this like you're saying having our food dictated of what we can eat what we can't how it's produced um I mean even as a producer I mean if you want to enter into a commodity Market it's it's quite difficult um you have to to then go outside the norm right and to try different things there's a little room for experimentation even all the way down to the way the food is produced um so yeah that's that's really interesting yeah if you're if you're gonna if you're gonna raise for example if you're gonna raise chickens uh for a commodity you know for the commodity program or pigs or or whatever um the the pro the protocols are pretty are pretty specific uh you know if you want to use a a probiotic instead of an antibiotic or if you want to use uh you know vinegar instead of uh instead of antimicrobial you know chlorine uh you know that's not acceptable it's not acceptable so the you know the the system the system is is highly is highly regimented and but we we all we all know that the the the breakthroughs the answers to the world's problems always come from a lunatic fringe they come from the the innovators Are All Around The Lunatic Fringe by definition uh you know the the the status quo um the powers that be are always about maintaining their own power and uh you know people ask me boy what what if what if what you did became normal I said and and my answer is my lens if if what we did became uh average it would completely invert the power position Prestige and profits of the entire Agricultural and food sector and that's a big ship to turn around and so that's one reason why there's so much uh inertia there's so much inertia there to make sure that ship continues to float and go the directions going absolutely yeah and not just not just the agricultural but pharmaceutical complex that uh sure that are like this now right um absolutely and just to unpack that a bit more Joe um so if people were then having that freedom of choice to eat food that is responsibly produced um then they're going to be healthier I mean like you said I'd like to see or to have the ability to experiment um but I mean the experiments are happening as well all you have to do is once you find your farmer I mean and you start eating that food and then you go and eat something from woolies it it's not the same um my my wife she she never used to eat meat and then I said I started saying well try some of this try some of this from a regenerative farming and um now she won't eat the lamb from woolies but she loves the lamb from from a regenerative farming you know it's that instinctual right taste response like you mentioned earlier I think and it leads us it guides us to eat more of what is good for us um absolutely yeah your body your body knows you know it knows what it needs we had a we had a little boy in here a couple of years ago he was I think six or seven years old very very small his mother was very worried about him and she said he he's just such a picky eater he just he just won't eat anything and she had him to the doctor and all sorts of things he just was extremely extremely small and she was quite worried she bought a couple dozen eggs and um and I said try those try those with him and she called me back a couple of weeks later and this little six-year-old she said I can't fill him up he's eating six eggs at a time and and what it was his he was he was starved for nutrition his his body was star for nutrition and when he got some good nutrition it it it came alive and so you know those things happened I had a had a neighbor had a neighbor that had sheep uh a flock of I don't know two or three hundred sheep and um and they got through the fence one day and we we feed our cows um uh seaweed a dehydrated seaweed as a mineral um kelp it's it's kelp from Iceland and um and and so we you know we give it to them all the time and I actually I actually drove and drove into Lane and I could see something it was a like a a three meter tall uh White pillar out in the field so what in the world is that I parked the car I ran out there and it was this neighbor's sheep on our mineral box they were like maggots on a carcass they were they were three meters high stacked up in a big tower trying to get this mineral they were starved for mineral and uh and you know we just see that we see that all the time and we're all starving aren't we in that sense and this that's what this food system has created into to this heart type back to where we where we've just come from it's um what is the dangerous which which is one of the reasons why what you're doing is so important because you know what we're also starving for we're starving for truth and we're starving for truth and and when people hear truth it resonates way down in here uh and and and you know congratulations to you for for putting this kind of material out because because I'm I guarantee you there are people that are listening who who are confused they're they're hearing you know Yak nakak in this ear and you know all this and and uh and there'll there will be people out there who hear this and it'll resonate with them they'll say you know what that makes sense that makes sense and uh and I've seen it over and over again uh people are searching for truth because there's so much untruth in the world right now and they're searching for it and um and thank you for thank you for offering that that platform for people yeah thank you thank you Joe that that means a lot um you're damn right it's it's confusing and it's a um it's a crazy world we live in and I just feel like it's a it's almost our responsibility to to do it if we want our kids to come into a into a world that is worth living with you know with truth involved I mean that's a that's a pretty important pillar of humanity isn't it right I would say so yes um and so in in this time post covert of of so much division um a lot of people are still carrying around a lot of that has been not necessarily um created on their own accord how do we heal how do we heal from this and how do we move forward and build something build something better yeah well uh first you have to so I uh during the during the height of covered when it was all masked and locked down and you know Draconian um I I I came up kind of with my own recipe for uh for uh I I presented what if we What If instead of you know looking for some sort of uh a jab a shot of some sort what if we just took a month as a nation and said you know what we're going to con concentrate for one month on building our immune system let's just let's just concentrate for a month on building our immune system let's see what would that look like well let's see well maybe it would maybe it would look like we're not going to drink any Coca-Cola Mountain Dew and Dr Pepper you know we're we're gonna We're not gonna drink any uh high fructose corn syrup sodas you know for a month we can start there and then and then uh and then we'll actually we'll actually cook at home we're gonna we're gonna uh get rid of the you know the hot pockets and the TV dinners and the Squirtle squirtable squeezable Velveeta cheese and we're actually gonna cook our you know cook our meals and uh from scratch okay uh let's see what else would it be uh maybe we ought to eat a drink uh drink a liter of water a day because everybody's dehydrated and uh and we need you know we need more water so let's get some water uh what else oh we're gonna get outside we're gonna get we're gonna get uh 20 minutes a day of sunshine we're gonna walk out and get vitamin D and uh and get our get our Sunshine We're not gonna stay in the house we're not gonna lock up we're not going to cower in a corner we're gonna go out and get some get some vitamin D and then and then uh we're gonna we're gonna sweat for 20 minutes a day we're gonna we're gonna walk or hike or run or jumping jacks or or you know yoga or cartwheels or hand Springs or whatever we're gonna do uh we're gonna sweat for 20 minutes let you know let our body expel all those toxins and get all that junk out of there and and and uh and do that then uh let's see what else will we do we'll um we'll we'll sleep we'll sleep eight hours a night um because nobody gets enough sleep we're gonna we're gonna turn off the TV and we're gonna sleep for eight hours a night and really get some sleep uh next thing we're gonna do is we're gonna only watch news one hour a week and the rule is for every hour of news you watch you have to watch two hours of Comedy so if you watch so so so the one hour of frowning and frustration gets offset by two hours of belly laughing and uh you can pick whatever humor you want but we're you know we're gonna we're gonna uh we're gonna laugh and then and then the final one is um the final one is we're gonna we're gonna take we're gonna make a list of all the people that we hate or that have done us wrong and we're going to forgive them we're just going to forgive them let it be let it be and we're going to take that Vengeance and that stress out of our life I mean can you imagine that recipe as a nation if that recipe had been followed um I I venture to say if that recipe had been followed instead of Pfizer and moderna and and Jabs I I suggest that we would have been a lot healthier and we would have come through it a lot better than we did I've got I've got three I could add to you at least I think Joe okay Juan uh one of them would be breath breathe correctly okay number two we're gonna hug each other we're gonna socialize yes and yes I think that's just an exercise I mean sweat you covered that but um sweat yeah exercise and also maybe breathe in some of that compost mix you're gonna send out yeah drink out of the cow tank [Laughter] yeah that's that's beautiful I mean it would it would just turn it on its head it yeah and it just goes to show that if we were really if we were really if this whole thing was about health you know that's the steps we would follow um sure and would band Figures it's not that yeah it's not that complicated yeah no exactly um wow that's that's awesome so one one thing that is mentioned a lot in in this whole regenerative uh regenerative space is the ability to build community out of out of farming and to create um you know little hubs or nodes of places for people to come to connect to get good food to get inoculated to drink from the cow trough um to do that so what has been your experience out at polyface with with that community building and I mean you're an open Farm aren't you yeah we are so we have a 24 7 365 open door policy uh for anybody to come at any time to see anything anywhere unannounced and unescorted um so we have that that level of transparency and people do come but more than that we've really um we we know we know the value of getting people out to the farm to see it and also to taste it if if if you can see it or taste it that's good but if you can see it and taste it that's even better and so you know we do we do a lot of hay wagon farm tours they're called lunatic tours we do individualized tours called grass tours uh we have we have a full-time uh team member that this is her you know uh um her business she's a you know she's not an employee she's an independent contractor and and uh does these uh grass stains tours we also do seminars but in the last three years years we've begun doing Gatherings we call them Farm fellowships here on the farm Gatherings for for other groups groups who this started during covert when all the resorts and hotels were locked down and we we found out that there were groups that weren't paranoid that weren't scared that said we'd like to get together but but we can't go to a hotel we can't go anyplace and so we said well why don't you come here and so now we've built an entire new you know Enterprise of Hosting these gatherings we built a we built a nice big uh 300 person Amphitheater uh on three Terraces we call it the the Luna The Lunatic Learning Center and uh and so people are coming all sorts of things uh uh you know group we we have we have uh you know alternative economics uh Health um uh uh what you know other things like um like bio fertilizer I mean uh there are just numerous kinds of things uh coming and um and the the thing that we can do that nobody else can do is we can assure them that they have a memorable food experience and a wonderful uh bucolic pastoral setting and so uh so we think that this is going to really uh we did we did uh six last year uh we're gonna be doing six maybe seven this year and um and they're you know these are Big deals but boy do they do they build Bridges to the urban community they build Bridges and that's what we desperately need now we need we need people to come out get out and um and immerse and interact uh in in a clean uh rural setting just to whatever uh renew their minds if anything else you know besides all the the physical and uh breathing in some good some good uh bacteria and and pollen and and let's listen to the birds thing yeah oh that's awesome um and I love the lunatic Learning Center I mean that that's awesome you should Rebrand all your education products um [Laughter] yeah so and and so what's the the outcomes that you're seeing in these in these fellowships of people that I imagine they're excited anyway during that time to just come and be together but um are they leaving uh getting more than they bargained for are you oh yeah yeah yeah they're they're they're leaving on cloud nine uh they really are they're you know they're uh well I mean during the covert break uh uh thing I mean they just levered you know they they had not been a place where they didn't have to wear masks they hugged and we um David we we took actually as a business we took a lot of heat uh locally we actually lost restaurants we lost customers uh it was very partisan you know uh polyface doesn't care about health polyface doesn't care about you know people's well-being and so we actually we actually um you know took a hit on on some fronts uh through this but but it also endeared us it endeared us to the the 37 percent of Americans who have refused to get vaccinated and um you know that's that's not the majority but it's a pretty big number and uh I'll 37 of Americans that's enough to build a business on uh you know and and so so uh we're we're happy for that and and they love us and yeah it's built all uh communities where people you know get together and uh they exchange emails and you know what happens when when people get together and so it's it's just become a almost a you know a tribal almost a tribal thing uh oh I found you know another person that you know that hasn't bowed to the government yeah and that's it and that's I mean that's that's that truth bomb all that Truth uh resonation I think that you're that you mentioned before it's people are attracted to it they're drawn into it because that's they feel it you know it's um that's that's amazing that's that's yeah really really cool and not to mention that maybe the 37 but then there's probably at least you know 10 20 that were coerced or um that didn't want to do it and they they felt like they were all the pressures I mean the social pressures especially yeah where we are in Western Australia I mean far out it was a brutal brutal 18 months yeah and still to this day like that and that's why I'm so interested in how we now we grow out of this how we forgive how we uh Regional those relationships because there is starting to the narrative is starting to go full circle and I feel like yes again places like like yourself that took those actions are seen especially in my eyes I that's that's where people you took a responsibility to build hell not to not to endanger people but to to Foster health and create an environment for people not just physically but mentally I mean it yeah uh what is it what's the the law of um thermodynamics it's a um an object in isolation increases in entropy yeah that's what happens exactly we we posted a pretty big sign there on our farm store um uh that's uh it's it's titled masks your body your health your choice and and we I mean uh we got we got vilified in the local newspaper for you know we're you know we're a super spreader super spreader event uh we we actually had we we saw once not not very many once in a while we see a car drive in they'd get out they'd see that sign jump in their car and leave uh and not shop at the store um you know but but yes we believe we believe that that your health is your choice my health is my choice I'm not responsible for your health you're not responsible for my health see the problem is think about this philosophically the problem is if I'm responsible for your health and you're responsible for my health then then you suddenly have uh you suddenly have a a justification uh in fact you have a mandate you have a mandate to keep me from participating in Risky Behavior according to to your idea of risky Behavior well I think I think feeding your coke through your kid through three Cokes a day is risky Behavior okay so so risky behavior is actually a very subjective thing um it's a very subjective thing and so so the problem is that we have we have irrigated we have irrigated Beyond ourselves to society to society via the government we have arrogated to that to the society our health and and we thought we were freeing ourselves up from having to worry about our health somebody else will worry about that but instead we've become enslaved our lack of participation has enslaved us to somebody else's agenda whole circle isn't it it's the same different same model same model same uh same song different verse um same results too just just a little bit louder and a little bit worse oh man that's that's awesome um wow Joel that's that's really cool and and bloody good on you for um for taking that path and so much respect for you for doing that um because I feel like yeah that that the generation of you know 50 plus 60 plus uh especially have been the ones that have been swept up in a lot of this um right and it's fear I mean they played on fear and that's the really it's a bad move it's it's not nice um but yeah I heard it yeah yeah I heard a phrase I heard a phrase the other day first time I've ever heard it and I've tried to use it so I'll remember it that's how I remember new stuff that I hear and uh so I'll I'll give it to you it's a new phrase that I maybe you've heard it I haven't heard it but they were saying uh this lady was saying what were what we're peddling now in our culture is fear porn fear pornography yeah you know it's addictive it's uh it's it's seductive and it and it's not the real thing but but that's what we're peddling is fear porn and when people are fearful they will you know they will they will fall for just about anything love it that I have heard that and I have been using it quite a lot um and trying my best to stay away from it to keep it away with a 10-foot pole yeah um Joe can we talk a little bit about um spirituality and and um cultivating I know it's a very personal topic and you can you know you can share as much as you like um but how important is that piece I mean we we touched on the Y at the beginning but tying it back to that spirit and having a potentially a spiritual practice where it it I mean I feel it that just brings you out of that reactionary State a lot of the time and this helps you to zoom out um so yeah I'd love to hear a little bit about sure so yeah I'm very happy to share that so I I am I am a Christian and and so you know in the morning I I I pray and I you know read read the scripture and I have my I have my time um but then throughout the day too you know um I'm trying to make my make my thoughts flee to something bigger than me and I think that that is that in itself you know what you're doing what we're doing um I I think that that our entire view of food farming uh the the world if you will uh recognizes something bigger than me um the the the in the industrial the industrial conventional agriculture uh uh complex is all about trying to um to humanize the Divine to to take to take what's bigger than me and a um make it understandable be manipulated uh see uh impose my will on it rather than rather than me uh looking at something that's that's beautifully fearfully wonderfully designed that that I had nothing to do with and saying what's that template what's that pattern what are those platforms and then and then conforming my my farming into that into that that was here before me it will be here after me it represents something way bigger than me uh it's awesome I I would suggest that um that when you when you think about uh the infrastructure of like like concentrated animal feeding operations is a perfect one um and you walk you drive down the road and you see this when you think about conventional industrial agriculture the first thing you think about is here's what humans have done here's what humans have done um and and what I like to see what I like to to Envision is um I mean for me it's it's look what God has done in fact I I like to think of it as for example when we go out to the pigs for example um I I'd love to take tours out to the pigs and you know there's 35 40 50 pigs in a group and there's no smell the pigs are happy they're you know if it's early in the morning they're probably you know rooting around if it's in the afternoon they're probably all you know zonked out taking a nap on top of each other but anyway um uh you know I like to stop the group and say now now if you were driving by here at at 7 70 70k you wouldn't even know there were pigs here so so we love our farming is is immersed and embedded almost as an afterthought in the ecology rather than the most visible thing about our ecology being what humans did instead our visitors see what what creation is and our farming is nestled into it as a footnote rather than the dominant theme of the ecology wow that's that's really beautiful that's a really nice outlook on life and that explains why you're so happy yeah and yeah I'd say the the creation and God thing I mean interchangeable with nature or you know the Creator um right you know because it is it's bigger than us and it's that sense of awe that is yes that really makes that builds that respect I think uh for that environment absolutely and but also appreciating that we're a part of that um and yes and I think I just like to to touch on a bit of the agency piece about um because it's it's you could you'd be you could be led to believe that you know humans impact on nature now is is nothing but bad right um you know farmers are the ones wrecking the environment blah blah blah um you know we we just destroy the place sort of thing but the exact opposite is true um in in outlier cases like polyface Farms um White Oak pastures or these Enterprises that like you say are nestling into the ecology instead of pushing it aside or killing everything and starting Anew it's it's um it's fitting into that piece so uh what would you say yeah yeah so so so I think I think the the important thing is to to start with this understanding that if you're if you're a a thinking uh um a person of integrity you do understand that I could even say most of the human interaction with the ecology has not been good I mean look look at the debt look at the man-made deserts look at the you know uh look at the destruction That civilization has done long before chemical fertilizers you know Alan Savory is wonderful on this he said you know we didn't start destroying the earth when chemical fertilizers came along it was long long before then and and and and my my point is that but obviously I said most I said not not you know I didn't say all I said most so so the point is the average American now who is well read uh archaeologically anthropologically um uh carries this again this this kind of guilt that oh my look you know look at what we did look at what we did in Mesopotamia look at what we did in India look at what we did in you know in Easter Island or whatever okay look at what we did and and and Carries this this thing that oh my you know um I I I better not touch nature because if I touch nature I'm gonna I'm gonna mess it up like my ancestors so so we have we have an environmentalism of Abandonment we need to abandon nature in order in order to assuage our guilt and so we lock up nature we lock up nature in preserves and parks and and and and you know whatever uh uh you know hands off sure sure okay so so so I get that all right so here's here's here's my response all right if you if you need to get down on your hands and knees and repent and sackcloth and Ashes do it okay but let's let's get it over with I I'm sorry I repent for everything that my ancestors have done now stand up dust yourself off and say okay now I'm going to use my intellect and my mechanical ability you know opposing thumbs I'm going to use that and we're going to remediate we're going to redeem all the damage that we've done let's devote ourselves to that so we so we come to Nature not with abandonment but with a but with with a massage uh uh with with interaction and intentional strategic um uh healing the the healing touch that we can bring so these hands and these these Minds that have that have harmed can also heal and and that's that's the key and so that's the message I bring I I um and and I hope everybody listening to this I don't know what all of your you know listeners are like but um I I hope that the folks who who thrive on making fun of the greeny Weenies and the and the environmentalists and all those those are a bunch of nut cases no you know what I think the first thing to do is to look at them and say I get it I I get I understand but but instead of just being uh um you know tying yourself up in a fetal position let's let's unleash our imagination and creative power and let's take this abuse and let's turn it on its head let's let's let's build soil instead of destroying soil let's build diversity instead of instead of destroying diversity let's build nutrition instead of destroying nutrition let's let's do that and and we have the capability we have the know-how we have the capacity we have the money we have the resources and so let's roll up our sleeves and get with it and build a new world Amen brother that's that's the world we want to live in um and that's right and that's that's what empowers me anyway is that knowing that we have a role to play that we are engaged in that um that we can make nature we can massage her you know that's yeah that's awesome um that's right two more things darling I'm gonna let you go to bed because I know you gotta um you've got to run early tomorrow you're heading off to Texas um yeah so okay number one is I wanna just highlight um Darren Doherty's work and polyface film um that that you guys did back in what year was that oh my goodness um uh you're catching me off guard there it must have been uh poly faces poly faces must have come out in I'm gonna say 20 about 2017 maybe 20 okay yeah yeah probably about 2017 it probably is when it came out so yeah it's been it's been out for six six years have you have you started to see it it ramp up a bit I mean I watched the film a couple of years ago and it's it's bloody awesome um so I just wanted to yeah tip the Hat let people know that that's out there um and that you have heaps of other work out there I mean sure how many what are you at now in book count you can't even see the two hands can you no but yeah no I can't uh 15 15 books and I just I just finished uh here's the here's the rough draft of a new book uh that'll be book number 16. I just finished it on Saturday and uh hopefully it'll be out you know by the end of the summer uh Sensational how do you find the time Joel um as well that's something else I wanted to ask you that's not on the included in the last two questions but just quickly how do you manage your timing um because you do it damn you you're a busy man you do a lot yeah well uh a couple things one is I I typed real fast so I I mean no I mean that I mean you know with today's email and all that stuff if you if you can type real fast that's a real blessing and so I learned I learned to type in high school and probably it probably was the most most beneficial classes I ever took was typing uh and and I you know I'm a real fast typist so so I can just I can just crank out you know crank out more material um we don't have a television so I don't you know I might watch I don't know I might watch uh two or three movies a year I mean we just don't you know we just it's got the time for that you know um and and um and so yeah and and I I guess the other thing is I I love what I do I don't I don't go on vacation I don't need to leave this you know um I just I just love this and so I love what I do and um I'm I'm energized by it rather than you know I'm sure I get tired like anybody but but uh but I'm energized by the by the opportunities and the possibilities of today and tomorrow absolutely and do you have a smartphone then Joe or you um no no I've got a I'm still yeah I'm still on the old uh the the old fliparoo there yeah I'm going back there that's that's where I'm head I want one of those um because again that's I mean how much it's terrifying how many hours people spend on the phone it's catchy off guard you know like yeah apple sends through like a notification now telling you how what your screen time is and bloody hell it's um talk about feeling guilty that's that's one way though um right on uh last thing last thing Joel I just want to talk to you a little bit about Cole sauce and um pasture cropping I know it's a bit of a left field from where we've been where we've been talking about and what we've been chatting about but um so we have a course with Colin I think we've sent it over to you a couple of years ago um yes and yeah I just I've heard you talk about it before and there's not a whole lot of you talking about it but um but you talk very highly of it so I do yeah in fact in fact we we did it we've done it twice here now we're not we're not in the grain business so we don't you know we're not in we're not growing it for grain but we did we did try it uh two years just growing uh some summer summer annuals like like sudex and cow peas uh for summer annuals for grazing for the cows and um it was it was fantastic um and and it it definitely works we we did we have not continued to do it uh just because we you know we we feel like with our fertility level our ability to irrigate uh we don't need we don't need that kind of Summer supplementation and it's expensive to put in you know you got to plant the seed you gotta you know all this and and so um so I I'm a big believer and I've I've promoted it uh certainly for people who are who are grain farming uh I think it's it's a fantastic uh it's a fantastic option totally and even just that highlight on on perenniality I know you're big on perennials on your place and um and I think that is something that that is going to be a huge shift as well in agriculture is is moving towards a more perennial um diverse system so if we can just do that yeah I think I think so uh at least for the acreage that Bill Gates doesn't own I'm I'm confident that whatever whatever Farmland Bill Gates owned uh won't be in perennials yeah yeah yeah all right um maybe we can get him pasture cropping we'll see you know maybe but it's funny though you know people get very upset about the whole Bill Gates thing but you know the the amount of land that he does own is what equivalent to still I mean some of the freaking oh it's nothing stations in Australia you know it's it's um yeah it's nothing it's it's nothing yeah so um yeah won't get caught on that and and we'll just keep charging on because that's right that's right and um Joe um so stoked to have this chat um and I hope we can we can chat again in the future I really want to get to Virginia so if um if we come over yes um please do we're gonna make a big one B-Line for your place absolutely you you're more you're more than welcome we'd love to have you thank you sir and likewise when you um when you get back out here mate uh you you make sure you let us know and and uh yeah are you familiar with the the haggerty's work Joel the Hagerty Ian and die Haggerty natural intelligence farming uh boy the name is certainly familiar um I can't place them right now but certainly the name is familiar yes I'll send you a link through anyway we've been doing a lot of um filming and storytelling with them because uh what they're doing is is quite exceptional and and again that blueprint at scale for um for healing Landscapes um so I just thought that this came to mind so I thought I'd ask um we'll head out there for sure and and uh get out and weep out country and and see see what they're up to get down to get down to manage them up again oh yeah Darren and Lisa took us to manjim up that was that was quite a that was a fun time yeah we'll get get to the beach get in your budgie Smugglers mate um yeah you're having a having a dip no that's that's awesome hey Joel I'm Gonna Let You Go uh off to bed because sleep is important um but until we do it again uh thank you so much God bless and um all the best for your travels thank you very much thanks for the opportunity and and blessings on you thank you [Applause] [Music] all right foreign [Music]

Channel: Smartsoil Media

Views: 78,234

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Id: jciEj5N0BzU

Length: 99min 29sec (5969 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 25 2023