How to Master Wized and Xano with James Abad

hello everyone today I'm here with James Abad the co-founder of pulis and former employee at blackpak he's an expert in wwx and uh I'm really excited to have him here today on the Stream So James introduce yourself and yeah tell us a little bit about yourself about your background and how did you get started with the wwx stack thank you Manuel appreciate you guys having me here uh so uh long story short uh I used to work as a we developer uh you know before I even jump into we flow I learned about HTML and CSS I just studied one Cycle One Semester in an Institute here in Peru I knew that they were going to teach me WordPress on the second semester and I knew that I had to left because you know I I have watched the YouTube tutorial where uh rans got made a comparison between you know WordPress and webflow and I had to leave and you know from there I started learning webflow I started watching you know this OG like this OG YouTube uh YouTubers like Jose OK uh web de for you and all these you know are fantastic YouTube uh you YouTubers and yeah then I got a job about it I posted you know my portfolio on Facebook uh an agency from Miami Reach Out they like my portfolio they hire me I started there as a junior that was the best decision I could have made you know I learned a ton of from there from them uh I learned about good practices right because I was not doing just some basic websites I was just doing we I was doing websit for clients and some Enterprise clients and that was awesome then uh I got to meet Billy from black Peak and he he liked my portfolio as well and uh he yeah he decided to hire me and from there we you know we started working together and I think uh we were watching this this tutorials like that the tutorial from from P Clark Smith and he was always saying hey you get you need to get into a niche right you need to get into a niche and we were the only agency that I was working or not the only but you know there were just a few agencies working with whis back then because if you knew JavaScript you know at that time you might not be using whsb one like the first first because you know you were only limited working with IDs and not really with attributes so it was yeah if you knew JavaScript properly you know you might know were using whis at that time and yeah we were working on whis because we didn't know JavaScript and we were working with whis and we learned we learn jav Creet through the process and you know all of the sudden the agency starts scaling uh we got the crazy news that FY was buing we and that was just nuts and you know I still remember talking with Bailey and said hey that that like these news are going to change like our lives like this is going to change everything you know to have the support such of you know such a huge team as finu it was not for for the tool and yeah it's it's been quite a long journey you know it's been already almost yeah uh I don't remember when when we got the news but it's already almost almost three years I would say like two years and something but yeah it's not or no no no no it's it's a year and a half a year and a half or something like that yeah I believe it was 2021 oh no was announced but I'm not sure I'm not I'm not 100% certain yeah and uh yeah so you've been one of the first people who started working with WIS even before vswi acquired WIS so yeah you've been you've been uh familiar with that stack for a very long time now yeah you you know uh at the beginning um I was not an expert like setting up like database structure I think that's a super important part of building web applications and I was lucky enough that in the first semester that I studied you know HTML CSS um we had a teacher um we had a course about SQL and how to structure a database properly you know primary keys forign keys and all these you know logic how to create an erram and I never thought that I was going to use that knowledge and you know uh yeah we we you know we still are learning through you know all this process but we I think we learn as well not the ideal way you know we were learning while we were building some projects and that's not not not that's not ideal but you know at that moment there was no one else building it and there was no one to reach out to and it's it's amazing that we have more people you know build on top of these tools and I know it's going to get bigger and bigger that's that's why it's you know a fantastic moment to get into this Niche and but yeah uh yeah that's how we started yeah pretty much so you've been learning as you go from the beginning you you had to basically go beyond what's been out there in terms of educational content right from the get-go so you had that resourcefulness right away to yeah just invent different solutions for for problems that you're facing along the way uh would you say that that was crucial in you becoming an expert yeah for sure uh you know I would have loved to have an introduction to web application development when I started you know I I knew the basics of JavaScript you know from the tutorials that I have watched from Timothy rcks uh you know for you guys as well you know building job strip and that was it you know and then you know for San for example we you know for me one of the best guys in the in the this that stack like not only with w and S but in general like with lowo tools uh it's R deck he he was like my mentor in Sano he's uh you know he's a full full stack engineer he's he just does you know he just does uh this type of thing because she she just loved helping people he just loved helping people and that's and that was pretty much it you know I for example like whenever I had a problem with Sano I was not looking into like how to do it like I was not looking like like on a I wasn't looking on YouTube like how to make something in S I was looking to PHP because I know s was based on PHP and I was looking to Solutions you know how can I do this filter with PHP and then all of a sudden I could find that filter in Sano and that was like the way that we were going at that time with projects right I think that's something that um that's also helped me progress like very fast so whenever I have a problem in Wiz I first look at the solution in JavaScript and then I translate that into into WIS same thing with HTML and CSS whenever I need let's say a CSS animation I don't want to use webflow interactions so it's just not possible but I assume that it's possible to do with HTML and CSS I look it up I go to codeen and once I see the HTML and CSS I can easily translate the same Concepts to webflow and I think no matter which no code tool you're picking you don't have to become a coder but it's important that you can understand code and that you can translate whatever the concepts um are in the documentation to translate that to the tool that you're using just like you said I think whenever you start understanding you know the whole implementation between all of these programming languages is when you can use any any front end tool for example we we're not I don't think we're unlock to webflow I think you know we can use tools like we web or other tools like that right because as as you said it as long as you understand that you know the whole structure I think you can use any UI tool like any sorry any locco tool and coding as well like if you understand on a conceptual level everything that you need to do with let's say OD tokens and um cookies and uh variables and so on it's not hard to just translate that Concept in whatever syntax you need whether that's like a no code tool or if you're just using let's say a front end framework like smelt or or react yeah just like you said it and I think that the best thing that people can do is just a start you know you don't need to be an expert obviously I don't suggest you jumping on an Enterprise project right offering that for a web application but I just suggest to start just start it doesn't matter if you you know you're an expert obviously no one is an expert at the beginning just just need to start and just start getting you know I think this is another approach this is whole new right or at least my approach to C in just like yours I think is it's like we we start with this well I know you had a development background before the wef flow uh uh not really not really well at least more than me because I know you told me that you were you know already well I I think that was in the middle right that's why you just started working on wef flow I actually started um I had basically University one HTML and CSS course that was like one week long or something like that that's that's all I knew and then we had basically to create a website with any tool we like so I picked whiz uh Wix at the time and uh then it was through web flow that I learned HTML and CSS and I was getting frustrated with the limitations that I was um facing often and I just wanted to build more and more and the tool wasn't allowing me to build anything I wanted or to solve all of my clients problems basically so at some point I decided to pick up JavaScript and I started learning on code academy HTML and CSS which was also crucial in overcoming a lot of web flows limitations but also picking up JavaScript was um was very important like just understanding how to interact with the Dom and do basic stuff like like can already get you um ahead of like most developers I would say yes just like understanding 10% of JavaScript exactly as long as you understand you know the do notation flow that you have in JavaScript how to set a variable how to listen to events that are happening on the website that's super important if you want to start working on top of whis right I think that's part of the process you start learning right on event click and then you start kind of get the idea obviously it's it's you know it's it's just fantastic like the wib 2 is just not for me I think a lot of um you know something that we're doing in the agency know is we're bringing technical people like we have we have brought a backing engineer and a fronted engineer and they both love like San and whis and they are working on top of it and it's just fantastic that they just like it so much you know it's like working on a framework it's pretty much as uh I just as you guys have said it before right is wh is pretty pretty much a framework and and it's awesome that developers you know who are you know really good you know building it in the traditional way are enjoying working on on top of these tools yeah it just gets you like you have the infrastructure and it just saves you so much time you can just get started uh with building your project immediately without setting up anything and now you know with with Chach PT uh you know on the game it it's as you said it you don't need to really not how to write code as long as you understand it and it's the same you know it's for me it's more important to learn the concepts like how to structure or how to format data in Sano yeah you start learning the tool you start learning the UI is the same with JavaScript you start learning how to you know start typing uh JavaScript but as long as you understand as you said the concepts now which CH GPT it's a whole new word and where you are not limited by your knowledge on how to write but more limited to how you how how good you understand JV right yeah and uh to go like a little bit back in time so we try to give like some tips for people who are just starting out now with whz and xano and so on what would you say would be the ideal learning path what would you recommend what are like some of your favorite resources is and which um which Concepts tools and um and apps would you recommend for someone to learn who's just starting out so first of all uh my suggestion is to learn HTML CSS before even you jump into we flow you need to understand you know what HTML CSS is uh you need to know how to you know how that works on a traditional way for me at least that gives you you know a better background whenever you start working on top of web flow because if not you start seeing all these options that you don't know what they do and it can get hard so yeah starting with the basics right HTML SS learning webflow learning how to properly you know set a website on web flow like with a framework like just Client First that almost every single agency is using I know I know not everyone every single agency but most of the agency are using C first and you know the idea is to for you to before even you jump to whis to learn how to properly build a website web flow you don't it's not a must but if you're trying to build it for a client ideally you can have you know a clear class name in in CSS before you jump into this new word about web application because it's like the next step right and woof I would have loved to know uh how you know the basis of an API I would have loved to know the basics of that you know this I don't know what's the specific name but the do notation in JavaScript right I know like because everything is mainly objects arrays and that's it like you know then you have type of values like you know you have the keys and you have strings integers and I would have loved to have that basic structure of that basic knowledge because it's literally the same in PHP in Sano everything is variables you know and it's it's literally that same flow and I don't think obviously you start getting best like good practices you know where you have an stage environment a life environment working dynamically you start you know uh yeah yeah start having best best practices like creating function that you can reuse in s and all that but I would have loved to just know the basics of coding like you know how to D structure an object and all that who are some of your favorite creators on the internet you mentioned earlier um Ray deck from uh State change uh yeah who else like has been inspiring you along your journey o uh well definitely f with has saved me a ton of times you know with uh the attributes uh solutions that you guys have like the filtering has I think I I don't think there's a one weow developer that has not used uh one of your guys Solutions right someone you know the person who who literally Dro me to web flow was uh ranal so I'm always grateful to his videos and his tutorials oof then obviously we have uh web de for you he's an OG uh YouTuber so oh I have too many you know Jose OK that I was able to meet on that on the we conference two years ago uh yeah you guys better to GL to meet um obviously Timothy rcks um I have you know as I as I I think I I said this before like if if two years ago you asked me you know who was the person who who watched the most amount of YouTube videos related with we flow probably I was one of the you know one one of those those people so you were like a sponge just absorbing um every sort of information that's webflow related pretty much I was you know trying to I just l webflow i I think some a lot of people just enjoy you know learning some I don't know this is we flow was just something so good that you know it's was was just funny it was just fun for me to to watch that and uh what's your process like when it comes to scoping projects um starting to work on something like how do you ensure that you're scoping a project properly because this is something that's like way harder to do for web apps than it is for traditional websites so before you know before that anything um before even you give obviously a price or anything you need to get to know the client you need to before even into to know the the user flow or anything like that or you know the whole structure of the web application is you need to know if you're a good Feit with a client you know on that first impression that first call that you get into for me that's super important and then is just to get to understand the whole the whole web application you don't want to give a quote if you are missing some part of the web application I prefer to spend two months uh creating the scope of the project creating you know the user flow the database structure on fig jam and from then give them a price uh that you know just give them a price right away and to just have you know a terrible experience because I lose money they probably lose time because you know they haven't paid me enough to invest all this time on it and I'm not you know motivated to work on it so it's just the first part of the web application is super important you know that structure of everything on fig Jam is super super important uh would you like to show us how that looks yeah for sure I would love to show a couple examples of you know uh recent projects that we close one we're hopefully closing this other one and I can I would love to share that uh this is an example of a website for a client that we closed where we pretty much they gave us you know an idea of how what they wanted we jump on a couple of calls with them just addressing first of all like a small time up uh it doesn't need to be this way you can just create a s up uh uh like a really simple sign up with Reon and then probably you can edit that sign up here in Sigma where you just say you know we have the sign up page we have the login page What fields do you need on the sign up page What fields you need on login page step by step just trying to keep it as human as possible you know as simple as possible and then this is something yeah like we just create you know the login flow where we have you know what fields are we going to add ask uh if we're going to have you know like a setup here to save their c credit card informations this has been something really basic where we have then the dashboard the information that we have on it uh you know then the flows that we're going to set create campaign you know set property address here select date to run campaign uh so pretty much giving an idea of you know what steps come into each part and then you know what what do we need what do we need to do on the database uh this has this this was a a basic sample here where you know we just uh have different flows here for example we end a flow so pretty much we divide everything into flows you know you have the authentication flow that is the login or the sign up you have the reset password float and as well the same here you know we have another page um where is the properties campaign table we have the information that we're going to display on that page um as well here and yeah we just try to keep it you know as as I said as human as human as possible like this process you know just to make it really simple to anything any person to understand and obviously we have here a way more large uh like a way larger uh example where we are getting more granular for example here at the top uh that uh example right we are bringing data from another uh source for example in this in this web application we are not going to have a signup flow the users are going to come from another you know database and then we're syncing that with s we're setting up you know what steps do we need to build here like generate temporary password and send an email an imitational email we have then the login flow we have some conditional right is this is the first time that user logging in if it's if it is as we send in a dummy password they need to update a password right that goes to database uh then we have this you know this by the way should not be here what type of user has logged in here um then we have three type of users and that's why we you know we have a super admin we have a regular admin and then we have the standard employee and then we have like some some examples here you know what what is going to what data we going to have on the home what's the process of resources here where we are just structuring you know the database and the field and this is ideal you know this is ideal to to have you know the fields that you're going to have on each table and to know how you're going to reference each table you know between each other and yeah that's kind of like the flow I don't I don't want to overwhelm you guys with you know all things but it's it's pretty simple it's like not simple I would say but it's you know pretty human like we're trying to make it as simple as possible yeah so uh let me know if I'm understanding this correct so you're using gray fields for writing information about the pages or um just adding additional notes purple fields are Pages green fields are conditionals or or any sort of logic and the yellow fields are your database essentially right exactly which Fields you need in the database sometimes uh not only the database but as well the like the function that we're going to create in Sano just like here right where we uh you know we new user data will St Sanel Set Roll ID and location the accordly for example so it's not always you know like the database structure but it can be as well you know some function that we're going to build on top of s yeah something that's like partially related um to to all of that do you have some sort of starter templates this is something that Jeremy asked like what are some templates or pieces you have in your toolbx or project Al aler always has uh we have a template I don't know if we here yeah but we always start with the template I would love to share like a figma link there a fig J link uh that I can probably share later because I don't have it right now but we do have a base with all these components where so we just you know drag it and here and copy and paste it pretty much and what about um Zano templates and whis templates like do you always start from scratch or do you have some sort of um boiler plate in place so yeah no we do have templates we do have templates I know we have private snippits as well we have public Snippets that we always use because as you as you're whereare aware and manual you know some processes while you're building a web application are the same on you know I'm pretty much the same like the login the login flow might change slightly with a web application with another right but it's pretty much the same like so we have an authentication flow we have some stripe as well rebuild flows we have uh yeah we have quite a few flows set up like we have a looms flow a Loops sorry this uh email sender tool really good by the way Loops uh by the way shout out to Glenn because he recommended that tool we used to use a Sr or mailer scent and Loops is fantastic by the way they they are not pay us I'm not familiar with it like uh can you give me a bird side view of like what the benefits are in comparison to send grid why do you like it more than send grid super simple super simple to set up you go into the web app and automatically you just need to set up I think your domain and that's it you're already set to start sending Dynamic emails like it's super super simple way simpler than using and as well the template Builder is not bad it's really good uh you can even oh no it's the like they have they have just simplified the process they have just made it simple you may have you know other extra functionalities custom functionality on read or something like that but I I like the Simplicity that they have achieved with loops and now for example you can listen into web Hoops like stripe web hoops and then you can send like an invoice to the client so they're kind of like trying to as well create these automated flows inside the the the app that are that are really good so basically what you're saying is uh they have pretty much everything you need and it's very very simple to use exactly yeah very simple to use perfect and uh yeah Pablo has been asking something to both of us he asked if we were to create a gated membership website uh the fastest way possible would we use services like member stack or outa or would we just do it all in wwx do you want to go edit or oh please go ahead I don't have that much experience in member stock it depends I will say you know it depends if I have to say a respon it depends on how how complex you want to get I I don't know what are the limitations that member St has some client has reached out to us and and and member is a really good tool but some clients you know start hting some limitations with memberstack and they reach out uh they have reached out to us because they want something more complex because they have a structured you know their database on their table or other tools like that and they have as well some data on the CMS and it just start they start hitting you know this we plus CMS limitation API limitation and that's when you know you know that the robo setup that webflow wi and S allows you to to have coming come in play right yeah the way the way I see it is like if you want to set up a membership site site in the fastest way possible you're probably going to be faster with out seta and member stack I probably won't because I have more experience in whiz so I could spin it up in maybe 15 20 minutes but um especially if you're a beginner it's probably way easier to spin up member stack or outset than it is to create the same thing with Wiz but if you need additional features either now or later on down the line it makes much more sense to go with something like WIS now we are also planning to create an integration with member stack so you could use member stack uh eventually just for handling the memberships and the payments and so on because they simplify that process a lot but then if you want to build additional features on top of that then then you can use WIS so I don't see these tools necessarily as um as competition like sure they have an overlap but um there's also like a lot of stuff that you can do with one tool that you can't do with the other or it just saves you time so yeah like short answer if you don't need any feat features except for the for the memberships go with something like that if you need additional stuff uh later on down the line then uh where is this the way to go okay so we talked a little bit about your process we talked about your starter templates and toolkits your favorite creators um now one of my favorite creators um are are definitely R deck now like during this time but also you and uh uh Yassin as well Yassin has been also pushing the the boundaries of webflow and uh and Wiz know that stor that he posted just a a few days ago or I think it was last week about the reverse proxy set up I I I just found out about this new tool that was just fantastic oh I I don't know about it I I missed that one out please you have to check it out because it's a you know a reverse proxy set up with no Cod it's just nuts it's just really good you can set up oh wow workers on top of web flow without you know having to do all this JavaScript uh flow that's amazing that's good and you know he has been killing it uh he hasn't stopped ping videos over I don't know two months and he's just doing fantastic and just figuring all these things out by himself like uh the the progressive web apps I don't know if you saw that video also that was like fantastic really really clever yeah and you know that those those type of tutorials are huge you know because if a client comes to you and you know you w you didn't know how to have a reverse proxy setup now after that tutorial you can offer that for sure so it's the same that you know it's the same it's it's a ton of value it's a ton of value in such small video right that's the same that you guys offer right you have helped a ton of agency to be able to deliver that reverse proxy setup with the you know with the video that you publish so it's just it's just so much volume yeah and you've been also like pretty busy creating content as well how do you structure your dat because I mean you're leading an agency you're having all these projects and so on how do you find time for creating content as well I I haven't found it in in a month I think so you know uh I you know I love developing I love doing that I think now I'm you know I think it's part of the process to start migrating into a more organizational role where I'm you know just handling tasks for the developers that are joining the team and it's it's just uh it's hard but obviously I guess the ideas you know I don't I think I saw this tweet from Ry guy you know I I don't want to focus right now on too many things I want to get the agency uh working as as as good as possible I want to our clients to be happy I don't want to you know learn to many clients and you know don't be able to to handle all these many projects because it's it's not as as you said it's not like a marketing side web applications can get over you know you can you you might be you know going going over you know your deadlines sometimes you need to always try to you know have the client expectations uh like uh I don't know if down but the cine expectation realistic in check exactly uh and as long as you always sending updates to them and keeping the update of how what is what is been done on the site I think they're happy and yeah and that's yeah I would say I I want to you know get over documentation process for other team other P other people joining the team perfect and obviously I want I think it's it's I think I should be okay making tutorials over the weekends like short tutorials like it doesn't need to be a you know I don't need to have that that good camera set up I can just jump on the laptop create a quick loom video and then post it on YouTube and I think as long as the value is good I think people just appreciate that yeah and um we talked a couple of months ago and you were just starting out with pulis like tell us a little bit about that Journey how did you decide to start how many are you and uh yeah how many projects are you working on at the same time and so on so so right now we're working on two projects at the same time could you could say that um you know it wasn't it wasn't a easy decision to to leave like P you know I had a had a fantastic time there uh but I was a little overwhelmed at the end of the year and and this is something like I took the decision on October last year but it was something that I was I have been thinking about and obviously uh I didn't have another you know in come apart from black Peak so my family was scared you know I I think uh I have been supporting my family for over two years now economically and obviously it was not only my decision right I obviously discussed that with them and I'm glad that they believed in me right I was I was a SC at the beginning right I I had no idea how things were going to go I just want to I the only thing that I knew is that I could offer a good good value to companies you know that I could build uh if you know if I wouldn't would if I would have had that confidence on me probably I would have just stayed working you know on an agency but I think I reached out the point where I felt confident enough uh and I you know I you know I I there were things that I wanted to do that I was not possible to do in my position so I just decided you know to build my my old agency and and it's been the best decision probably that I have taken in in a while now what would you say how how different are your days now uh in comparison talented people and offering them basically a bridge to the world where you know they can start living the life that they wanted support their families just like you did and so on yeah and how many are you right now I'm sorry how many how many are yeah o right now we are between Freelancers and uh fulltime members we have uh right now we we have had like seven people working on projects right now obviously we have just uh uh a back in well pretty much two full stock Engineers that are working as a Freelancers one of them it's will be will be working as a full-time uh next starting from next month because uh he's leaving his job for the startup here in Peru and the good thing is we can pay you know we can pay you know competitive salaries more than these startup companies here in Peru and and yeah uh we have right now around we have had like around seven people but mainly the team right now five people like solid yeah five people amazing and um yeah you were about to say something right before I asked you that question so I don't know if you can remember it but um uh I I for yeah I don't know what I was going to say but it's fine uh if I remember it I will I will say something perfect just just shout if if you remember okay and uh Pablo is asking James are you hiring yeah uh we I don't like this is the thing right uh we are still Landing clients and we're not taking as many clients as we could and we have already scheduled you know that work for the future for uh certain developers so I don't think we're we we're hiring right now because we have you know everything scheduled for the next month but we will be you know uh I think we will be hiring as well more people soon for sure nice so Pablo there's your answer regarding leads like how do you you started basically the agency just a couple of months ago how do you find your leads where are your leads coming from is it your YouTube channel or are you reaching out to companies so uh we we we a little bit of average we got some leads from YouTube We got some leads from Google uh we got some leads as well from Twitter but I would say it's it's super important to create content you know I don't as as I think as as jok crew said it before uh as I have said it before as well on the Instagram story uh you don't want to be selling your services you don't want to be out there you know uh messaging through call emails or sorry call messages on link to companies I know it's a it's a good way as well to Le clients but for me just to build content on YouTube of my expertise just F me that leverage to be able to you know say no to a project or say yes because we are getting you know constant leads and and as well you know to be able to be part of the whis experts uh agencies that well have brought us like a couple leads lately and yeah for sure it's it's just I think a mixture of everything right at our Landing pag is at M it's you know but it at I think it achieves what it's looking for you know it's a small looks nice they know that we have a really good approach on design so by the way um yeah aler has been fantastic in the start you know aler has done an amazing work he he's way better than organiz or you know the organization of the agency and he has helped you know all this process of notion where we handle you know our clients the tasks the permissions or sorry the the details account for each you know tool exan with like he has done a fantastic job organizing everything Pablo is asking uh James do you think people companies in Latin America will adopt wwx or do you think the starting price is still a barrier no I no no I think people will will def get into Wi on Santa obviously right now we are not aiming for companies on sou South America because uh niches in right now in Europe the US uh but I guess now I don't think that the the price that like like these tools like San are cheap like whenever a company is making money this is are extremely cheap like this tool like the the capability this tools give you for the price that we're paying is for me extremely cheap and if they don't see the value on that then it's not a proper client for you I will say you know companies will start jumping into this tool for sure in South America last question that's here on the list is from Jeremy and he's asking what timeline are you woring working on on average oh uh I will say three months that that will be the average we have from projects that we have schedule like five months of work we have others around two months but the minimum it's been two months yeah yep yep y the minimum has been two months so two months plus then usually having a long-term relationship with the client and you know jumping on a retainer afterwards like from my experience at least um almost every web app that we developed um at fuite we contined the relationship with the client and you know they wanted to add more features they wanted to change some things um improve some things and so on so it's it's usually that first phase where you're just building a really good relationship and creating a good product delivering on on whatever um they're expecting and then later on it's more about keeping that relationship and and seeing how you can um yeah provide continue providing value basically yeah you know I think that's why it's so important the the base setup of the web application because then you as an agency as a person who build it as a group of people who build it it's way easier you know to push updates of that and to avoid you know bugs errors on the back end um yeah it's uh it's you know it's this is this whole group of you know uh flows that you set up at the beginning that super important for the future of this relationship is for all uh I think I think I I have I have discussed this with with Joe with Joe crew is that you know I know this is not like it's not exciting sometimes to work on an old project but if you build it properly and it's not hard for you to push updates and you have you know a dynamic stage in environment life environment this is what's going to hold the agency right this is what is going to uh make us able to pay properly our developers and to be able to survive without new projects jumping on into the agency right and that's that's super important like for me this is why it's a you know it's a it's definitely is you know after you have become an expert in wealth low this is the next step for sure you know this is the next step because a marketing side doesn't you know give you that uh that power or you know people with a market set might not ask you for updates right they might just do them by themselves but obviously with this setup obviously we're more complex for a client to jump on it obviously you want to build it with client first and to create some functionalities for them because something that's what we never talk about is the internal dashboard that always client request you know uh you always have web applications and they always need to create function or make like send emails or to create some type of logic for their team for the internal team and yeah like this is why it's a deal breaker like to be able to build these sites will give you that power to keep uh working for clients for long long time yep and what do you use for these internal tools do you use also wwx or do you use something like retool yeah we have been using rol uh this was part of well the Blacky set black black p setup and uh yeah we definitely use rol and we are probably for this first project where where we might be using our table web hooks obviously not ideal but for the functionality that client has I think it's fine but obviously you want the tool like retool you know you don't want to have two databases you don't want to have to sync both databases you just want to have retool that is like a front end builder for internal tools pretty much what exactly what you're looking for like internal for internal dashboard where you just reference you know to the API for to the S apis where you can just pull all the data that you need and then create Logic on top of that yeah client dashboard yes and I think you know uh I think this something for the future on wi is like we should H we should like the I I don't know but probably the wi to could as well take some inspiration from rol they have really cool as well functionalities uh they have so many event listeners and all this type of logic like but yeah it's it's good it's good for sure nice yeah I I saw like a couple of suggestions already from the community saying like oh rol has this and could you add that and so on which yeah it looks it looks really solid I I've only spent like an hour in it or two just trying basic functionality out um but it seems it seems really promising yeah no no no for sure for sure it's it's promising Jimmy is asking are you charging for Discovery no that's something that yeah we have been discussing about but you know in order to land this Enterprise clients we we are planning to give this for free like you know if obviously if the first goal doesn't go well or we don't feel that it's a right bit we will probably just you know uh send this client to another person refer it to another agency that could be a better fit um uh this is mainly because two things uh the the price and as well that deadlines that they have because you know we are we don't want to work on something that it's for tomorrow so uh yeah we're Ching for the discovery part and and we're we're giving that value for free and testing o for testing we we uh well we we do testing like we do a q like something that we're doing and this is I should have said this before we don't have a Cascade process like we don't expect to finish figma to jump into w flow then after finishing w flow jump into wi and Sano no we once we have that database structure set up on figma we are start we already start working on S we are start we already start you know building the API endp on S we don't need to wait to finish something to start the other thing so we are testing the API from s from the from the back end directly obviously once we build a functionality someone from the team is already jumping into q that single functionality so you know we don't need to finish the whole web application to create something obviously at the end of it we obviously need to make a quick QA of everything because something might affect another flow but for us is we don't need to you know wait on something to be to be able to start testing it so I think that the things that you need to test obviously not figma you mainly need to test the front end set up with the back end you obviously need to test the backend by itself the API end points in Sano and that's pretty much how we handle it yeah last question what has been the biggest project you ever worked on how big was it o uh uh probably the biggest project I worked on it's e it's hard to say I would say five months five four months um I would say you know it a project cannot be big at the beginning but with all the new functional the client want might want to add you know I think every single project should be taken with the same I don't know amount of responsibility but uh yeah I would say four or five months uh it depends on I would say when for me it's just that the database set up is the the most like uh heavy part to work on obviously the frontend as well can be tedious you know you can you might have a lot of work on the front end but you know that the main thing that uh you know is divides a large project from a small one is you know how complex is the database structure and how many flows you have yep is there anything else you wanted to talk about uh yeah um if I would have uh I would have loved to have this ibys at the beginning please if you can work for an agency that's working on WE wi and Sano projects do it I think there's no better way to get experience than working for someone else uh in this type of Niche right I think it's a fantastic approach to learn as well these tools to get more involved you know with JavaScript Etc yeah thank you everyone for jumping in and thanks for sticking with us for this whole hour this conversation was truly inspiring and fun and I'm I'm so glad to have you here James thank you so much uel it was fantastic to be able to share this with the F Community I really appreciate it to be here and let's hope that more people join to this you know amazing w flow wean award that it's just growing so so fast thank [Music] you

Channel: Wized

Views: 897

Keywords: Webflow, wized, xano

Id: UOMw_r41Soc

Length: 50min 27sec (3027 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 05 2024