How to Make your DnD Dungeons Mythic

have you ever played in a completely strange dungeon you or your players are delving this dungeon and you find that things logically don't make a lot of sense how is there a dragon five levels deep and what are these purple worm tunnels carving through this man-made structure for old school Dungeons and Dragons are full of these types of dungeon examples it was largely the default way to play back in the day you'd have these large dungeons and they'd have these strange things going on inside of them and they were mysterious things weren't clearly explained in the osr sphere these types of dungeons have been described as and become known as the Mythic underworld these are strange places where the players can go and explore but the natural laws may not fully apply to them entering the dungeon is seen as crossing the threshold to the underworld where things are strange and dangerous for the players but they can also be handsomely awarded as well I think there was a sort of rebellion against these mythic underworld dungeons as modern gaming came to be probably in maybe end twoe but definitely into three and later on many people felt these dungeons were Silly and they labeled them as funh housee dungeons or Gonzo weird for the sake of being weird they felt that game Masters that used the Mythic underworld style of play or just being lazy they didn't want to have to cleanly explain everything as a result of this Rebellion you had these totally logical dungeons come into play here is the barracks here is the Armory here's the toilet which is fine but it is a game so not everything has to be 100% cleanly explained all the time I think as humans we have this sort of need to classify and explain things and this sort of need really kind of bled into our dungeon design as the hobby has developed over the years which is a fine way to play but it's also okay to have that kind of mystery that unknown that weirdness explained as well I do feel like sometimes The Logical dungeons do have a tendency to kind of mute the Fantastical element of our fantasy role playing games I've been working my way through Michael morx elri of Mel nibon I know I haven't finished it all yet you can try to revoke my GM license if you want I can see where Gary gak Dave arneson and the early players of Dungeons and dragons were inspired by these types of sword and sorcery novels El often finds himself in these weird dungeons that Traverse PLS of existence or the laws of his natural world don't fully apply there they are these weird and hostile environments but they are Fantastical and they are Mythic which got me wondering can we break out of the bog standard logical Dungeons and if so what makes a good Mythic underworld style dungeon hi welcome back aboard the Earth Mo I'm Randall and today I'm talking about how to make your dungeons Mythic the concept for the Mythic underworld in Dungeons and Dragons seems to be as old as the game itself its roots are discussed in the first three DND booklets written by Gary GX and Dave arneson and the first that TSR ever printed but before we get to that we have to go back further thousands of years the idea of the Mythic underworld is rooted in some of man's earliest story and mythology countless Tales speak of man going on a quest to the underworld in most cases literally the after the Greek hero Orphus travels to Hades to try and recover his wife from Death one of the oldest such Tales is the Epic of Gilgamesh Gilgamesh embarks on a quest for immortality after the death of his friend and kidu he travels to the underworld in search of said immortality the ideas in these stories is that the hero must go beyond the barrier of the normal world he crosses the threshold and experiences something wholly beyond the natural laws of the world they are used to the idea of traveling beyond the threshold and into the Mythic realm is something formulated in Joseph Campbell's a hero with a thousand faces into the storytelling structure known as the hero's journey in Campbell structure the crossing of the first threshold and into the belly of the whale are at the end of act one and these are the first first steps into the Mythic underworld all of Act 2 is all about the hero's trials and tribulations in the Mythic underworld and ultimately they are able to leave with some sort of treasure or New Found knowledge in hand does that sound familiar yeah DND players Traverse these strange dungeons in order to get Fantastical Treasures original Dungeons and Dragons doesn't come out and tell you that your dungeon should be a Mythic world but many osr bloggers and thinkers most notably philotomy musings believe that the rules found in the three small booklets argue that that's what gak and arnison are describing take for example the idea of doors thrilling I know but stick with me according to OD and D doors are always stuck for the players they must spend time in the dungeon getting the doors unstuck and the monsters on the other side of said doors will have no problem hearing them coming and won't be surprised by the players entering into that room once the players are through the door miraculously closes on them despite all the effort to dislodge it in the first place and perhaps even more oddly doors are never stuck for Monsters so if you hit a random encounter they have no problem coming through the door and surprising you on the spot then there's the idea of vision and light dungeons are almost exclusively dark so players need to carry light sources with them them most character options in od and are humanoid so they can't see in the dark which means that monsters can see these light bearing humanoids from far away and try to Ambush them speaking of those monsters all of them in the dungeon have infovision which means they have the ability to see in the dark but should one of the monsters enter into the service of the PCS they immediately lose all set abilities logically these are all strange rules but what GX and arnison are telling us is that normal logic need not apply in the dungeon dungeons are strange and hostile places it feels like the dungeon is actively working against the players while they're inside of it the players are Greek Heroes sent to Hades to try and survive some ordeal and achieve their goal Gavin Norman gives us a good description of what the Mythic underworld is in his Adventure modules the incandescent grados and a hole in the oak his passage reads the Mythic underworld is a generic term for those subterranean Realms beyond the Comforts of everyday life where danger and Adventure abound the Mythic underworld is not a sensible place but a realm of perplexing mystery and dream logic where PCS can fight weird monsters uncover lost treasures and die in horrid and hopefully entertaining ways so while we have an understanding of what a Mythic underworld is what makes one fun to run at the table well going back to photo's musings they share a list which I think is a good starting point it's big and has many levels it may be endless it follows its own ecological and physical rules it's not static inhabitants or the layout may change over time it's not linear there are many paths and interconnections in line with above there are many ways to move up or down in Dungeon levels its purpose is mysterious or shrouded in Legend it's dangerous to those exploring it deeper you delve the more dangerous it gets it can be a central feature of the campaign now several of these are leaning towards Mega dungeon territory which is okay Mega dungeons are cool but I don't think you need your dungeon to be a mega dungeon in order for it to be a Mythic Underworld the old school essential modules that I referenced earlier that specifically call out the Mythic underworld theming are roughly 60 rooms spread out over one or two dungeon levels that is a far cry from Mega dungeon numbers I think one of the key rules to making a good Mythic dungeon is photo's second rule it follows its own ecological and physical rules now it's interesting to have these laws vary from standard Earth natural laws but I think the key here is to have a small set of rules that you will use in the dungeon and apply them consistently you should Telegraph these rules to the players so they gain an understanding of the different environment they now find themselves in and then you need to consistently apply those logic and rules anytime the players find themselves in that same situation or similar situation let's look at some examples let's say the players pass through a blue curtain door into and enter into a room on the other side that room has zero gravity well then any other time they find another room with a blue curtain door the room on the other side should have zero gravity or maybe you decide that the dungeon is close to the plane of fire and all fire spells deal maximum damage well then you need to make sure that you apply that maximum damage rule for the entirety of the players stay in that fire related dungeon now if the players are going to venture into a realm where the dungeon itself is actively trying to harm them there better be something good in it this is where you need to ham up the Legends and mystery around the dungeon what Tales of Fantastical treasure exist within if Gilgamesh Brave the Underworld for immortality well you best be offering your players something of power now ultimately it's up to you to decide if the rumors and legends around the treasures and the dungeon are totally true or not is there really a gem that holds the consciousness of the greatest Arch Mage to ever live at the end of the dungeon I don't know that's up for you to decide as a word of caution I wouldn't make too many of these places that don't have a actually Fantastical treasure at the end of it if your players get burned one too many times they might start passing on these adventuring opportunities and rightfully so but what you could do do is have the super great thing have a flaw or a drawback to it maybe the gem that holds the arch mage's mind does exist but over the ages his Consciousness has become splintered and fractured so there's a chance he might not know the answer to the question or perhaps it takes X number of days for it to recompile its Consciousness and answer the question before recharging again I don't think all of your dungeons need to be mythical underworlds it's totally fine to have a crypt with some Undead in it and some Treasures that were buried with the deceased it's fine to have a natural Cavern with a red dragon and its horde living inside of it all of these locations can follow the natural laws of your game world and they work really well for adventuring locations as I said earlier there was a rebellion against this sort of mythical underworld and a strong push towards more logical dungeons in the modern and later editions of DnD D so I think a lot of people are already used to that style of dungeon delving I don't really think there's a right or wrong way to approach this just find the right balance for you and your players and when they're entering into a mythical underworld just be sure to Telegraph that the situations have changed so they can properly adjust their expectations and understand what they're getting themselves into I personally use a blend of the two styles of Dungeons and it's worked quite well for me and my group groups so that's it let me know in the comments do you use one of these styles of dungeons exclusively do you want to try out a mythical underworld style dungeon for your players I think they're a lot of fun if we give them some thought on how we want to present the weirdness in the dungeon to the players and that can make for interesting scenarios at the gaming table if you enjoyed the video please give it a like it really does help the channel out a lot consider checking out my monthly newsletter Enchanted Nimbus thanks for hopping aboard the Earth Mo I'll see you in the next one

Channel: Earthmote

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Keywords: ose, dnd, dungeons and dragons, old school essentials, osr, old school gaming, BX, B/X, Basic Expert, TSR, Necrotic Gnome, WoTC, Wizards of the Coast, 5th Edition, 5e, 5e D&D, 5e Dungeons and Dragons, sandbox campaign, sandbox game, Player Character, PC, Sandbox PC, storytelling, emergent story, emergent storytelling, game prep, campaign prep, WWN, dungeons, dungeon design, mythic underworld, mythic dungeon, dungeon

Id: SpD5IL5-tag

Length: 12min 28sec (748 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 18 2024