How to get red light therapy results without overdoing it | w/ Maysama founder Bev May Sanderson

Hi and welcome to The Honest Channel I'm Clare  Johnston a journalist on a mission to learn how   to age well and look and feel good for longer and  I know a lot of you like me are interested in the   home anti-aging technologies that are around and  are trying to work out which ones are best for   you and how to get the most out of them well one  thing I've come to believe in the last few years   and I mentioned it in my video last week where  I shared the evidence and my own experience on   using microcurrent is that in my own view rather  than going hard at our skin we should be trying to   work out what the minimum amount of use that leads  to results looks like for us and our skin when it   comes to both skin care actives and home devices  so we're not looking at the maximum our skin can   possibly tolerate but the minimum that delivers  results for us in terms of lifting and plumping   skin to secure our long-term skin health the two  types of device I use multiple times a week are   microcurrent and red light and I use them for just  a few minutes at a time time and when it comes to   microcurrent on a gentle setting and in a previous  discussion with scientists and skincare founder   Bev May Sanderson we talked about how there's a  balance between using red light enough to enjoy   the benefits versus overdoing it and potentially  doing more harm than good as the owner of Maysama   skincare Bev has done a lot of research into red  light and other types of anti-aging technologies   and has launched some of our own devices as  well as skincare products that support skin   health and work in harmony with red light where  you can find out more about Bev and the Maysama   range in the video description below but for  today I've invited her back onto the channel   to talk about red light in particular and how  we can get the most out of using it in terms   of how long we use it in what form and what  we do and don't use on our skin beforehand. Bev thank you for joining me again oh thank  you for having me back it's lovely well after   our last conversation you know we were talking  about free radicals and striking a balance with   red light use between a helpful release of free  radicals and and an overload trying to avoid   too many and there were just so many questions  from that around the do's and don'ts of using   red light in general and how to get the best  of it so I thought it would be a good idea to   get you back and we can talk some of them  through a great place to start because I'm   always asked whenever we're talking about red  light therapy people will say what what are you   talking about here and in my mind it's a blend  of red and near infrared light can you explain   um briefly the difference yeah red light therapy  I mean yes typically it is a blend of red and the   infrared but it can be one or the other so it  doesn't have to be really it just depends on   research studies some research studies might be  just one or the other and some devices might be   one of the other but most of them do combine  both because you generally get better results   when you combine both so if we look at it you  know red is part of the visible light spectrum   so we're talking 600 to 780 nanometers and  then near infrared is 780 nanometers up to   1400 nanometers so the longer the wavelength  the deeper the penetration into the skin and   that's why it's beneficial to put the two together  because you do really they have a different impact   on I thought most of our skin rejuvenation because  of course that's the area that I'm interested in   and they certainly have a different impact on skin  rejuvenation so red works you know closer to the   surface so it's very good for brightening reducing  melanin as a study around you know showing that   630 nanometer wavelengths reduces the amount of  melanin in the skin and increases skin brightening   and then in the same study they looked at 8  30 nanometers which is near infrared light   and that increased skin elasticity so  they have this different impact and we   saw this also in a another study which I  looked at from a university in Florence   um in Italy where they looked at this was more  sort of in which study where they're looking at   the the cells the impact of red light you know on  the fibroblasts and and how they proliferate and   their action and they found that the red light  helps the fibroblasts to proliferate to grow and   reproduce and the near infrared light then helps  those fibroblasts mature into myofibroblasts   which are the mature version of a fiberglass  cell and they secrete well they synthesize   and secrete collagen so you know putting the two  together is clearly going to be advantageous for   skin rejuvenation and that's you know that's what  they found that not only it's an additive effect   but it's a synergistic effect I mean most of the  masks that are available now the the better known   brands they incorporate both don't they the red  light and the near infrared and that's probably   something people should look out for absolutely  yeah is there anything in particular in a spec   like when you're choosing a red light mask is  there anything you look out for in particular   well I do think that the red and near infrared  combination is pretty critical for the skin   rejuvenation I think the only exception to the  rule there would be you know ladies of color they   they can sometimes be sensitive to near infrared  light okay not generally with a mask but maybe   with a panel that would be higher irradiance  and you might get some thermal energy I think   that's where potentially they're getting possible  pigmentation issues now if you're only concern   with pigmentation you want the skin rejuvenation  then we would just use the red light so you know   you could just select red light and avoid the new  infrared light if you were very very sensitive to   pigmentation I think that's you know that's one  advantage understanding that the red and the   near infrared have different functions in that  regard again looking at spec it's irradiance is   important so when I'm talking about irradiance  I'm talking about power density so you'll notice   we're talking about that you know the leading mask  manufacturers like CurrentBody and Omnilux, so the   CurrentBody mask for example is 28 milliwatts per  centimeter squared that's the irradiance that they   quote and that's that's a good level yeah you  know you have um mitral red panels if you've   got to panel there are about 200 milliwatts per  centimeter square that's the irradiance they're   looking at but that's at zero inches you're not  literally going to be sat there with a panel right   in front of your face you're going to be using it  properly you're not 12 inches away so you want to   have a minimum biostimulatory level of course all  the equipment out there is is based on that that   it is going to have a biastimetry it's going to  have this biostimetry level that's going to give   you an effect other than that I think it's just  down to you know horses for courses what do you   prefer do you prefer a mask do you prefer a panel  which are you more likely to use you know for me   I've used the panel more than the mask um I think  that's it comes down to just for me being in a   routine of using a pal in the morning and then  the mask I tend to use it as a not necessarily a   top-up but you know that I've missed a treatment  or if I'm away for the weekend so you know it's   lifestyle choices then isn't it you know what's  going to fit with your lifestyle after we last um   taught and you mentioned the eye mask from CurrentBody well I got that and it's great because you   know when I'm doing my workout in the morning um  on my little elliptical machine I just wear the   eye mask for a couple of minutes when I'm on there  it's a really really good point Clare because   um I've been using my panel in the morning  and I am using that with goggles because the   light is brighter and for other reasons we'll  come on to but um I have a blocked tear duct   at the moment in my eye no but you can see it's  quite red around here my whole um lower eye had   swollen up recently because of the same thing  horrible well I've had this for six months and   I use the CurrentBody eye mask at night to treat  this area so I'm doing like a hot compress over   my eyes and then I put my CurrentBody mask on  because it's just a three minute treatment and   I do believe that you know if I miss that it  can have an impact and it doesn't matter when   you've got your eyes open or shut I should just  mention that because you know you're still getting   penetration of the light I do feel that that helps  control this so it gets noticeably worse if I   don't do these because when I got I got two in a  row recently and I was worried that it was the red   light triggering it when I saw my ophthalmologist  he he was explaining it was dry eyes basically   due to age yes isn't it always so he was also  suggesting taking omega-3 capsules for that which   I kind of was on and off but now I'm going for  that every single day yeah fish oil every single   day which helps with the dry eyes I wanted to come  back to what was really interesting where you were   talking about that kind of optimal period of time  when we should use red light because us you know   some people use it 20 minutes a day 30 minutes a  day and you were saying that there is a balance um   between uh getting the benefit out of it and then  it tipping into being less beneficial when we're   using over time and you suggested six minutes  um of treatment what was that based on and and   is that a kind of like hard fact or is that just  around where you think you know based on what the   research you've seen you can get the benefits well  just to kind of recap on our discussion last time   um I use the mask and I use the panel so if I use  the mask I am doing the full 10 minute treatment   that's what's recommended my CurrentBody and I'm  quite happy with that if I'm using the panel then   that's where I have reduced my treatment time that  was more really to fit in with my lifestyle I I   didn't want to be standing there for 10 minutes in  the morning but I do believe that within that six   minutes I've received sufficient benefits and you  know we we talked a bit about the biphasic dose   response last time as well and you know if you  listen to leading photo biomodulation scientist   Dr Hamblin he talks about the the biphasic dose  response he's referred to remind us what that   was byphasic what does that mean byphasic dose  response it's basically a curve which basically   sort of goes like this up and then down which  shows that when you get the stimulus you initially   um you get a bit of the stimulus and you get a  little bit of the response more of the stimulus   more response and then it reaches a point where  more of the stimulus doesn't give you any more   response and actually you continue and then you  get less and less the response and eventually it   drops below the line where it becomes inhibitory  so this is what we refer to as the Arndt Schultz   rule or the biphasic dose response and it  just exists in biological systems you know I   know viewers want to kind of pinpoint what is  the optimal but it's there's lots and lots of   variables you know concerned we're talking about  you know what's the what wavelengths are being   used what's the irradiance um that we're using  so you know what milliwatts percent would be to   square that's your irradiance it's the power density  and what's the time because all those things   make up the dose and and then with biological  systems you've got more variants as well because   results differ from person to person if you look  at in vitro studies it's easier to control that   environment in vitro studies and when you're  just working with cells effectively in a Petri   dish and then you've got small animal studies  again you're kind of going up a level and it's   harder to control but a little bit easier to  control and then when you get into humans you   know there's so many variables scientists  and researchers are getting closer to what   they believe is a sort of optimal window if  you like and they're starting to talk about   um a power density of two to ten joules per  centimeter squared so there's a couple of   studies we can we can reference I think  which would give people confidence about   the the biphasic dose response so there is one  with fibroblasts where they're just looking at   different levels of fluence and it was the low  and the moderate that helped the fibroblasts   to proliferate and improve wound healing and  the high intensities just were found not to   be effective and then bang up to date this one in  2003 which is looking at um pulses in in rats and   um that one again they used low fluency like four  six and eight joules per centimeter squared and   that was effective but as soon as they upped  that to 15 it wasn't seen to be effective so   you know you can see that there clearly is this  kind of trigger point this cut off you know I I   have spoken to some people that say oh you know I  will do half an hour in front of my panel and I'm   thinking I wouldn't do that yeah because clearly  there is a point where you get diminishing turns   and eventually there is a point where it becomes a  negative effect and that's what we're just trying   to avoid but I can't say to you Clare that you  know six minutes is that trigger point it's it's   not you know it's just that was my choice of time  to um fit in with my schedule and confident that I   was receiving enough of a dose to be beneficial  I was reluctant about using red light because I   could totally understand that there has to be a  Tipping Point with it with anything in life you   can have too much of it I just couldn't  work out what that was and to understand   that within a short period of time I could still  get the benefits and particularly when you're   using it every day um you just want to be a little  bit more cautious about how long you're using it   for so I follow the six minute Rule now with  with the mask as well and why not I've noticed   skin changes it must be a few months now that I've  been using it almost daily it looks amazing well I   I see a difference in my you know 50 year old skin  and I'm talking really about very stubborn lines   on my forehead that recently I've thought these  are shifting a little bit they're just lightening   a little bit yes and and bounces skin elasticity  in general yeah I would say I would definitely   say and I and I credit the red light with a lot  of that so it's um it's been a good good thing   for me anyway not to say those higher wavelengths  are not valuable for different applications but   because for pain relief you want those higher um  Power identities that's when they're important you   know for pain relief for Muscle Recovery  it's very different to treating skin for   Rejuvenation I I often like to think well what  is the minimum amount if I can use this device   um what is the minimum amount of time I can use it  for or the minimum frequency I can use it for and   see results and you can build up yourself yeah  these are the rules of pharmacology they never   talk about maximum dose they always talk about  minimum dose and it's the minimum dose you want   to get a bi0stimulatory effect obviously we want  to optimize things but it's not about maximums   it's about minimum doses and optimal treatment I  also wanted to ask around you know the don'ts of   using red light if there is such a thing because  um I've had a few people ask about whether they   can use oil-based serums so if there's oil in the  serum a little like with microcurrent we're told   not to use oil because it can you know affect the  current flow is that the same for red light oils   in general can reduce light penetration there are  exceptions to that rule because we can get very   complex here it actually depends on the refractive  index of the oil but you're never going to know   what that is so you yeah um I would possibly read  into that that um you know some oils that are most   similar to skin like jojoba oil for example are  likely to have a refractive index which is similar   um and therefore would benefit  but that's never ever been tested   so in general water-based serums or gel-based  serums are better than oil based serums   um when you're using a red light you certainly  would want to avoid emollients so you don't want   to be putting moisturizers on you don't want  to be using SPF and then putting a light on or   facial oil those things is there oil in the serum  yeah in my serum the oil content is less than one   percent so it's actually inevitable it's um it's a  gel based serum right it's actually formulated in   a base of pure aloe vera gel so it actually helps  with light penetration now you talked about pulsed   red light last time which was interesting and you  were suggesting that if somebody was sitting in   front of a red light panel you could try turning  your head from side to side to get a kind of pulse   light effect what is it that you like about pulse  light why is it beneficial I absolutely love pulse   light I mean our whole um proposition behind Maysama's LED Beauty devices that are evolving now   is is around pulsed light and this all came from a  discussion with Andrei Sommer and so Maysama has an   ongoing dialogue with various photobomb modulation  scientists Andrei Sommer, Dr Hamlin and our own   scientists in a research team over at the Nelson  Mandela Institute in South Africa, Andrei Sommer   you may recall wrote the original paper which was  around green tea and red light a powerful duo for   skin Rejuvenation and that kicked off the whole  thing didn't it about green tea and red light   so in conversation with with Andrei Sommer he  was explaining that they've been using pulse   light for many years in their studies and they're  doing studies around cancer drugs so they've been   using 670 nanometer so that's red light um red  light in a pulsed mode to help with the uptake   of cancer drugs and he explained to me that pulse  like literally helps the drug uptake by the cell   and I'll explain why so LED light really has  two main physiological impacts on the cell it   increases the volume of the cytosol so that's  the fluid inside the cell and it increases   the viscosity of the interfacial water layers  and when you shine the red light on the cell   so literally just swells up and then when you  turn the light off the cell contracts so pulsing   has this effect where the cell breathes and that  effect Sommer's team referred to as transmembrane   convection when it contracts then the cell  literally sucks in any nanoparticles around   it into the cell so it's transmembrane convection  or a cell light pump mechanism they also refer to   as one of those drugs is egcg or epigallocatechin gallate you might know it better as the flavonoid   from green tea so that is a you know it has an  effect on on treating cancer so they've been using   egcg in their studies and showing how pulse red  light improves the uptake of this as a cancer drug   so it was Sommer that suggested to Maysama to use pulsed light and so from that you   know our kind of advance of LED Beauty devices uh  you know starting with our bian stone massager and   then our Maysama Urchin and now the LED  hair growth comb and coming very very soon you have been busy I have been busy I've been a  busy busy girl so that will be launched sometime   in September I just wait a minute so I think fear  is at home because I'm sitting here thinking this   what does that mean um so I've got a red light  mask I've got the little eye mask you know I'm   interested in using a panel but should I be  using pulse light instead I mean what is for   the average consumer what benefit is there for  them with pulsed light well it's going to be   in relation to absorption skin care firstly you  know that's that's really why we're doing it it's   tying it in with your skincare regime so I'm  only really interested in targeted treatments   for skin rejuvenation if the consumer has led  equipment already it's it's already working you   don't necessarily need to go out and buy another  one you know you don't need to do that you're   already getting a benefit from those devices what  I'm interested in is optimizing protocols and as   everybody is you know you look at what's  happening with CurrentBody they're now   talking about you know if you might notice in  their lip perfector and their eye mask they're   not just using one wavelength of red light and  near-infrared they started to use more than one   wavelength you know those are my I've used that  lip perfector just I I used it for six weeks just   as a little experiment and it did plump my lips  that was what was kind of switched me on to red   light in the first place I thought something's  happened here but you know we're talking about   marginal gains now really aren't we you know so  we we've worked out the basis of what works but   how do we make it better how do we make it better  and pulse light I strongly believe you know and   the evidence supports that it is better there are  numerous studies not just Sommer's research but   there are numerous studies around pulse light and  pretty much across the board there are exceptions   to the rule as there always are research but  pretty much across the board you get a better   outcome with pulsed light from my own experience  I'm moving towards using pulse light you know the   the evidence I find very very compelling um and  it's the journey that I'm on I have the little   urchin here which I've been um using for the last  few days and what I like about it is that used on   that lower strength it's really very gentle isn't  it so you can I don't like where you can feel I   know that the Urchin incorporates um microcurrent  pulse red light sonic vibration as well yeah   and I liked that you you know you weren't  feeling like your skin was zapped that's   something that I've experienced with other  microcurrent devices where it's really quite   uncomfortable so you're less likely to use it long  term if there's discomfort involved I mean this is   electrotherapy combined with red light when you  obviously it's a cleanser as well you know you   can use the the cleansing option first and then  take that off and then you're onto the red light   so at the lowest level it performs more like  microcurrent you barely feel it on your skin   and on a higher level more like EMS that grabs the  muscle and it will grab the muscle for about six   seconds and then it releases it and then grabbing  it and releasing it you're training that muscle to   where you want it to be an EMS would be equivalent  to something like a TENS machine which I used in   childbirth I'll never forget that because as soon  as the labour was over I realized I had this high   intensity em and I was like being electrocuted  in my in my birthing chair yeah I never went   that way but you know again electrotherapy  is is not clear to find where there's a cut   off between microcurrent and electrical muscle  stimulation or EMS there isn't this the maximum   amperage of this device is 400 microamps  so that's in line with a NuFace you know   um that in theory would be a microcurrent device  but then you've also got the voltage that you   switch when you're switching up the voltage  you increase the way that it's perceived on   the skin so if anyone has a concern over EMS  depleting ATP you might be talking about your   TENS machines and you might be talking about  the experiments you know where they're using   high amperage but not at 400 micrograms at 400  micrograms you still increase ATP so I just want   to set the records rate on that one so it's  it's a fantastic tool for lifting and firming   um I also you know I've got a whole crowd of  people who just love it for the cleanser alone   you know they love the sonic vibration for  the cleanser and perhaps they're of a younger   generation where they're perhaps not into the  anti-aging quite so much and they haven't really   ventured into microcurrent but I love combining  modalities I want multi-benefit I want time saving   and that's where I'm going with these devices if  I can combine modalities and get the benefits of   both it's you know it's time saving and I've got  the benefit of two or three or four modalities in   one device that suits my lifestyle one of the  big questions uh we've we've touched on it is   about safety of red light around our eyes and you  know you mentioned I think that you wear goggles   uh is red light safe for use around our eyes do  you think I mean first of all it's probably worth   noting that there's two different potential types  of damage to the eye there's photochemical and   there's thermal damage and we're far more likely  to get photochemical damage from bright sunlight   than we are thermal damage from the infrared light  I think where people have got concerned is they   they've heard that uh near infrared radiation  can lead to cataracts and you know there is   historical information around um glass blowers and  furnace workers getting cataracts from prolonged   exposure to near infrared radiation but you know  you have to consider you've got to take everything   in context haven't you you know these workers in  particular are exposed to very very high levels   on a daily basis for prolonged periods yeah yeah  for prolonged periods you know years we're talking   about and again you know we talked we touched  on pharmacology and all drugs are toxic at very   very high levels so you have to take dosing into  consideration and the dosing at which we're using   red light therapy is well within the beneficial  dosing capacity so that's a really really   important point and there is a stack a ton of  information out there that supports that red light   and near infrared light is beneficial to Eye  Health you know there's lots of papers around   macular degeneration so just deterioration of  eyesight as we age which is typically down to   a decrease in ATP production and then inflammation  of the eye that contributes to a decline in vision   and read and near infrared light has been proven  to be beneficial to decrease the incidence of   macular degeneration there's a fantastic study  where um more than 50 of the participants can   um when they do the visual tests they can then  read an additional five to eight lines on the   you know the visual tests and compared to  14 with a control group so that's that's   you know very significant and Not only was there  an improvement in their eyesight but there was a   a decrease in Distortion of their eyesight and the  amount of blood vessels that were accumulating so   highly beneficial and it's down to the fact that  red and the infrared light increases the amount   of ATP and reduces inflammation so there's a whole  wealth of information around macular degeneration   and how red and the infrared light can help with  that um there's also other eye conditions like   glaucoma where you're getting an increase in the  pressure in the eye and red and infrared light I   think new infrared light in particular has been  shown to reduce the incidence of glaucoma it's   also been shown to reduce the incidence of eye  injury so another study on I think this was was   on red light where they were looking at you know  foreign objects in the eye and then just recovery   afterwards and when they use red light it in  it reduced the healing time by 42 you know so   some fantastic stats out there now you mentioned  that I use goggles with my light um I do um but   um I do and I don't because I don't with the  CurrentBody CurrentBody mask which has the   cutaways so it's not directly in your eyes it's  surrounding the eyes yeah that's right I don't   with the mask I don't wear goggles with the  mask um I did and didn't use red goggles with   the Mito Red Light Panel um you know with the  information around it I'm confident that that   red near and infrared light is beneficial to my health  but you have to consider that the panel is a lot   brighter so for comfort I may wear you know  because it depends if you're in a welded room   actually you don't need experience you know  the brightness to the same effect yeah if   you're doing your treatment at night and it's a  dark room then you suddenly put a red light on   you know it's pretty intense isn't it so goggles  can be quite comforting now of course now you know   moving on to my my own panel and I'm using pulse  light again you're going up another level where   it's not just about the brightness you've  now got pulsing light and pulsing light   is quite distracting if you imagine you're  driving down a road and it's a sunny day and   then you go past like a an Avenue of trees  and you get the sunlight splashing through   those trees you kind of got your sunglasses on  haven't you because it's a bit distracted so   pulsing light is beneficial but at the same time  it's quite distracting so it's more comforting   to wear goggles in that situation and that's why  I wear them with my with my panel yeah I think I   think probably if I was sitting in front of a  bright panel I'd I'd either have my only shut   or or wearing goggles so I think there's  probably still a little bit of an unknown   element around it so it's uh why not why not just  wear the goggles and then if in any doubt you know   wear goggles so for me I'm satisfied that it's only beneficial at the  levels that we're using it but if people have any   doubt wear your goggles yeah exactly good to see  you Bev thank you and you thanks Clare there are   huge frustrations around skincare at the moment  because so much is available to us but there's   not an abundance of science to support her and  so we try to figure out as users what we think   might be most helpful at our age and stage in  life and for our own skin type I don't think if   you're following the minimum use approach with  devices that you can go too far wrong with the   aim being to benefit from frequently using  technologies like microcurrent and red light   therapy without being concerned about overdoing  it and possibly having a negative impact on your   skin's health and volume that's just my approach  as always I do like to hear your opinions in the   comments what does optimal use of red light look  like for you and how does it help you what kind   of results are you achieving for now thanks for  watching and listening and I'll see you next time [music]

Channel: The Honest Channel

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Id: AIoH8I8zV50

Length: 32min 14sec (1934 seconds)

Published: Sun Sep 10 2023