How To Build Bridges, Not Walls

[Music] [Music] bridges not walls how to talk to anyone about Jesus as we get started here a raising of hands and I suppose that I I imagine what the hands would be even if everybody doesn't participate here but how many of you have found it difficult at times to transition into a conversation that you'd like to have that you think you maybe could have but you just find there's a bit of an obstacle there there's a bit of a difficulty there to transition from sorrel sort of a normal everyday conversation to a spiritual it seems like the doors open but you're you're not sure you would do it right anybody here sort of feel like man I I have a desire to do that and I just not sure I would do it correctly well what I'm gonna try to do today and I'd love to see all those hands go up what I'm gonna try to do today is give you some tools right some practical tools it's not going to be a how-to in terms of a formulaic when they say a you say B when they say C you say D and then finally they're baptised and become followers of Jesus it's not going to be that so there won't be this overly formulaic but but I'm going to give you some tools that I think you will find super helpful as to how to keep Jesus in a contextually and situationally and culturally appropriate way right at the center of these conversations that you might be having at university or at your local work or even with your neighbor over the fence okay so I'm gonna set the I'm gonna give a bunch of illustrations at the end I'm gonna give you some sort of exhibit ABCD I've got six illustrations for you but before we get there I want to sort of set the the biblical theological background for why and how we should engage people who are not maybe exactly where we're at in our faith journey maybe they're not followers of Jesus or maybe they're not members of your local church or maybe they're not sure about any of this they call themself an agnostic so how should we as followers of Jesus be guided in our conversations and interactions with those who don't share our faith commitments and our faith convictions so there are a number of passages in Scripture that we're going to regard as guiding passages in today's presentation and I'm just gonna walk through a few of them some of these will be familiar to you and a couple will actually quote might not be so the first one there is in Matthew chapter 4 verses 18 to 20 this is geez this invitation to his disciples in this case Peter James and John and you'll remember this probably when he's there walking on the shores of the Sea of Galilee he invites them and he says follow me and I will make you what you remember this fishers of men which raises the question that's unusual language right that's that's purposefully implying the language of fishing which raises the question why is Jesus using that analogy why is Jesus saying follow me and I will make you fishers of men but what's the obvious answer to that because he's speaking to a group of people that are fishermen in a fishing context so he says follow me hey I'm gonna tap in to something that you're already familiar with something that you're already comfortable with I'm going to speak your language follow me I'll make you fishers of men okay a little bit later in the Gospel of Matthew Matthew chapter 8 we find Jesus encountering a Roman centurion now this is a particularly fascinating one because the Centurion who was not a Jew and who would have been certainly on the fringes of 1st century Jewish society they would have been there would have been many reasons for them to have regarded a Roman centurion with suspicion and even hatred right but this Roman centurion approaches Jesus and says listen I've got a servant in my house and he's very sick and I'm I'm a man like you I'm a man of authority I tell people to go and they go and come and they come and so could you please speak the word and my servant will be healed what well Jesus when he hears this he's like wow this is really extraordinary he offers to go to the man's house and the man says no no again I'm like you I'm a man of authority I tell people to go and they go and come and they come so you can just say the word and and Jesus turns to those that were traveling with him and he says I have not seen so great a faith in all of Israel right he sees here that the Roman centurion who was not a Jew he was a Roman he was a soldier and he was a leader of soldiers so there were layers of reasons for a Jewish person and certainly a Jewish rabbi to regard this man is with suspicion and he says I've not seen faith like this in the whole of Israel and now this is fascinating Jesus then speaks the language of authority to this man this Roman man who said he was himself a man of authority he says go your way your servant is healed Jesus here enters into the world of the roman centurion affirms his faith even though he wasn't a Jew he so far as were aware we don't know if he was what they called a God fear but Jesus immediately builds a bridge he speaks affirming Li and he uses the language of authority go and your servant is healed with the Roman centurion very similar to what he did with the fisherman on the shores of the Sea of Galilee follow me I'll make you fishers of men a little bit later in the Gospel of Matthew Matthew chapter 19 Jesus again Jesus encounters a young man that we never really get to know the name of it just says that a rich young ruler came to Jesus and this rich young ruler comes to Jesus and you know a series of sort of questions good master what must I do that I may have eternal life and this conversation sort of takes place but here's the thing I want you to understand when Jesus makes the invitation to the rich young ruler listen carefully to what he says he says follow me and you will have treasure in heaven now let's just sort of analyze that from this very same perspective he speaks the language of fishing to fishermen he speaks the language of authority to a man under a man of authority and here when he's speaking to a wealthy man to an investor to an entrepreneurial minded person he says you are making a good investment if you follow me he speaks the language of investment he speaks the language of money he speaks the language of wealth to somebody for whom that was their language we move we move from the Gospel of Matthew we go to the Gospel of John John chapter four a familiar story in the Gospel narratives the Gospel accounts Jesus finds himself in the fourth chapter of John sitting at a on a well with a woman the woman has clearly come to the well to get water that's what you go to wells for and when Jesus engages the woman in conversation he says I will give you water so so much so it's such a quality of water such a different kind of water you will never thirst again well she's she surprised by this offer of water that leads to thirst lessness and she says how can that be you don't have anything to draw the water with and Jesus then makes the analogy he builds the bridge between what the woman was looking for and what he's offering which is eternal life so two fishermen he speaks the language of fishing to a Centurion he speaks the the language of authority to the rich young ruler he speaks the language of wealth and investment and money and to a Samaritan woman who's looking for for water he speaks the language of water he speaks the language of slaking a thirst right not just a physical thirst but a spiritual thirst now there are other passages we can transition from Jesus as our sort of archetypal bridge builder and we can go to the New Testament book of Acts right we find in Acts chapters 13 and 14 and I've actually preached on this very thing in this church several years ago when we did our series on Acts but just quickly by way of reminder in Acts chapter 13 right at the outset of Paul's missionary journeys to the larger Mediterranean world in action after 13 we find Paul going into a city in Antioch and the Bible says that he went into the synagogue he went into a Jewish place of meeting now get this it was on the Sabbath okay so let's just fill all the blanks in here and if we had time we would go to Acts chapter 13 which we've already done in this local church but here's the short story here's the Apostle Paul in a Jewish place of worship on a Jewish day of worship the Sabbath and so when he stands up to speak to the people there he tells a Jewish story he starts talking about Abraham and Saul and Samuel and David well why is he telling a Jewish story on his way to the Messiah well because he's in a Jewish context in a Jewish setting speaking to Jewish people now what's fascinating is that in the very next chapter action after 14 the Apostle Paul travels from Antioch to Lystra and when Paul gets to Lystra he doesn't go into a synagogue in the end the reason for that is quite simple there wasn't a synagogue in Lystra so Paul goes into the open-air market right and he begins to speak there in conversations with people about Jesus and a really amazing thing happens you know there's a person that's healed and I'm not gonna go into all the details but here's the point when the people of Lystra begin to question Paul about who he is and what he's doing there and what he believes he starts saying things like this I bring you a message from the God who sends the rain I bring you a message from the God who who brings the harvests I'm bringing you a message from the God that fills your bellies with food whoa wait a minute why isn't he talking about David why isn't he talking about Samuel why isn't he talking about Abraham because these aren't Jewish they're not in a synagogue and so he's not going to tell a Jewish story what's Paul doing in so far as it's possible Paul is taking the biblical story the story of the coming of Messiah and he's telling it in in a way that makes sense to the inhabitants of Lystra he tells a lie Kony and story to the people of Lystra to the laconian people we see the very same thing with Paul this sort of mo falling following very much in the footsteps of Jesus when we get to Acts chapter 17 we find Paul in Acts chapter 17 there on Mars Hill speaking to the leading men of Athens and you can actually go through there and itemize in Acts chapter 17 how many bridges Paul Labor's to build he says things like this men of Athens I perceive that you are very religious I was walking among your statues and I found one of your statues to the unknown God I'm gonna bring you a message from the unknown God one of your own statues I'm gonna bring you a message he says as one of your own poets have said we are his offspring right he he says things like God has made from one blood every nation to dwell on the face of the earth and he's not far from any of us if we will just reach out and grope for him you can literally itemize in Paul's speech there there to the Athenians in acts 17 not less than seven purposeful intentional bridges that he's trying to build to the Athenian people he's quoting their poets he's using their statues he's affirming their religiosity he's trying to build bridges not walls which is why the title of our presentation today is bridges not walls we'll come back to that in just a little bit now let me sort of read you we get to cases in point of Paul's MO his evangelistic MO how he conducted himself conversationally and contextually with those that were not members of his faith community and sometimes in the case members that were members of his faith community people that were like the Jewish people Paul's gonna tell us here in first Corinthians chapter 9 which I've put up there on the screen for him and to read it for you so that we can have an insight into how Paul's mind worked evangelistically and conversationally okay so this is 1st Corinthians chapter 9 beginning in verse 19 Paul writes he says for though I am free from all men I have made myself a serve to all that I might win the more now let me just pause on that what he's saying by the statement I'm free from all men is that I'm not bound by culture or by indebtedness or by nationality to any one group of people he says I make myself free from all but then he says I in debt myself i indenture myself to anybody and at why Paul why would you do that why would you so adapt why would you be almost chameleon in your adaptation to other people's situations and circumstances and he tells you in verse 19 so that I can win them so that I can have an an influence on them not for myself not because I'm selling a product not because I'm selling a widget or advertising something for the gospel now listen to verse 22 the Jews I became as a Jew that I might win the Jews to those who are as under the law as under the law that I might win those who are under the law to those who are without the law that is to say unbelievers people without Torah non-jewish peoples as without the law that I might win those who were without the law to the week I become as weak that I might win the week I have become all things to all men so that I might by all means save some and then he tells us why in verse 23 I do this for the sake of the gospel so notice what Paul is saying here he says I am willing in fact not only willing I'm looking for opportunities to adapt myself to the local situation the local culture the local conversation the local context so that I can build bridges am I talking to a Jewish man I'm gonna tell a Jewish story I can be Jewish with the best of them am I talking to somebody who's not a Jewish person well then I'm going to have to suspend all of my Jewish language my Jewish vernacular mind you not that I don't believe it anymore but I've got to just I can't bring that into the conversation because that's not their language that's not their context that's not their situation so he says I become all things to all people why Paul why would you be so chameleon ik in your your addressing of various cultures it always says because the gospel because the gospel because of what Jesus has done I mean isn't the greatest adaptation in the history of the universe that the infinite illimitable eternal spiritual God would become a man right that's a Kondos that's an adaptation right so so if the gospel tells us that God condescends to come into the world of us I just spoke about this this last week at TVA see that that the weirdest thing in all of the universe is that God became a man and took on a human name I spoke to the young people about this at tweed valley Adventist College this week so so Paul says if Jesus will do that if God will do that well that I can situationally conversationally linguistically adapt myself am I in Athens I'm gonna tell an athenian story I'm gonna build bridges to the Athenians am I in Lystra I'm gonna tell a like Coney and story am i walking like jesus walked along the beach I'm gonna tell a story to fishermen or to investors or whatever Paul here is simply walking in the footsteps of Jesus who made the greatest accommodation when he became a man so these are sort of our guiding passages these are passages that get us heading in the right direction we can draw several just sort of simple and salient conclusions from these passages Jesus and Paul are meeting people where they are not where they aren't can the church say amen to that yeah where are they okay if they're here we're gonna meet them here right the idea is not hey you should be over here so I need to meet you where I think you need to be and we'll come back to that in just a little bit they spoke the language and enter the world of those that they were ministering to this is key they spoke the language they entered the world of those that they were ministering to now for those of us that gather here this morning as seventh-day Adventist and that's many of us though not all of us I want to give you several historical quotations to give you a feel for how one of the early founders and pioneers of the seventh-day Adventist Church Ellen White viewed how seventh-day Adventists who are a little peculiar a little strange and some of their doctrinal beliefs and their peculiarities how should we relate to people who do not share our peculiarities our idiosyncratic beliefs okay I'm going to share a few of these with you in regard to making our faith known no decided efforts should be made to conceal it that's good that's good don't hide who you are we don't see Jesus my eating who he was what we see him being wise we don't see Paul hiding who he was what we see him being wise okay explain no efforts should be made to conceal our faith but no unwise effort should be put forth to make it prominent either fascinating what a balance don't hide it but don't put it right out front in an obnoxious way she continues persons will come to the sanitarium to the hospital who are in a favorable condition to be impressed by the truth but these are people who have come to us these are opportunities evangelistic conversational opportunities how should we relate to these people that come into our sphere of influence if they ask questions okay I just want you to hear that again if they ask questions right so notice where the initiative starts it starts on there and not on all right if they ask questions in regard to our faith it would be proper to state what we believe say these words with me that I've underlined here in a clear and simple manner let's say that together again in a clear and simple manner indwelling godliness that is to say the indwelling of the Spirit in the life of everybody that is surrendered to Jesus imparts a power to the conduct of the true believer that gives him or her an influence for the right you don't have to give a giant theological disquisition because the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you will make your clear simple answer actually quite persuasive but in this matter we should act with discretion there are conscientious persons who think it is their duty to talk freely up on points of faith on which there is a difference of opinion in a manner which arouses the combativeness of those with whom they converse I know some of these people some of these people are in this room right now they think you know what we have to tell the truth and we have to give it to him straight but notice what she says when we unnecessarily arouse the combativeness of people they turn off their ears and now it becomes an argument right and I'll speak louder no no no you'll speak louder no I'll speak louder when Paul went to Athens he could have given a very different kind of speech rather than saying hey I was walking him on your statues and I saw one to the unknown God and I want to talk to you about your own poets and you're all very religious he could have said you're a bunch of polytheistic pagans who don't understand that idolatry is a is a grave sin against yourselves and against the one true God Yahweh we could have done that and he would have been telling the truth but he would have been telling the truth in such a way so as to absolutely seal off any hope of being heard and furthermore he would have aroused the combativeness of his audience okay now notice final one here one such premature in Judas injudicious effort may close the ears of one who would otherwise have heard patiently you can close ears by the way you conduct yourself but who will now influence others unfavorably through the indiscretion of one that years and hearts of many may be closed to the truth so we have not only the example of Jesus we have not only the example of Paul but here we have one of the founders of the seventh-day Adventist Church saying hey look be careful how you register the most potentially combative or or or unusual teachings of your faith those idiosyncratic peculiar things be careful how you register them in 1905 she wrote the same woman Ellen White wrote as we become interested in the salvation of souls we cease to mind the what kind of differences the little differences that so often arise in our association with one another this is key she says man when we're overcome with this this sounds like Paul to the weak can become as weak to the to the Jew I become as Jew to those without the laws with that why Paul why do you do that well so I want to win I want to win to the gospel I want to win to Jesus I'm looking for a point of access when we're driven by the overarching narrative how can we positively and favorably influence somebody toward Jesus we will not be making a big deal about what she calls little differences right we we're not compromising the truth in any particular to just tell the truth in a way that's wise we find Jesus and then in the New Testament in the Gospels frequently being questioned point like are you the Messiah or not and we very very very rarely find Jesus coming right out and say ok ok let me level with you all this is who I am and this is why I'm here and this is what's gonna happen Jesus spoke in parables he spoke in stories even when he was asked Point Lake are you the Messiah his answer is a fascinating answer he answers that with a question I got a question for you John the Baptist when he was baptizing was that of men or was that of God so even when Jesus was put on the spot he was reluctant because he knew that the people were ill-equipped to hear what he had to say in a secular country like Australia or many areas of the United States or many areas of Europe people are ill-equipped to hear what you have to say as a follower of Jesus am I telling the truth or not so you have to be wise you have to be intelligent you have to be as Jesus would say why is this a serpent harmless as a dove how you engage we're not talking about a diminishment of the truth we're not talking about a compromising of the truth we're talking about a contextualizing linguistically conversationally situation how how do we build bridges and not just walls let me just give you some examples of what this looks like so the first half we set the stage for why why do we do this well for the Gospels say and because many of these idiosyncratic cultural elements peculiar elements are not in and of themselves the gospel right there there are things that are important to you they're important to me they might be important to followers of G to get to the major thing and the major thing is Jesus and I'm gonna give you several examples I'm gonna talk to you about been a local Baptist chaplain I want to talk to you about my personal interaction and experience with Jehovah's Witnesses I'll tell you the story of suparn uh the hindu clinical psychologist that i met a few months ago i'll tell you an older story that happened to me several years ago with keifa abdullah muhammad a devout muslim i'll tell you the story of something that happened in this very community in fact in this very Church a conversation with a man named joel who was a genuine atheist and i'll tell you the story of kate the Pentecostal minister now before we get to those six stories i need to introduce you to something that i formulated i've come up with this so if you love it great you can give me all the credit and if you hate it just say well that's stupid and i don't like it okay so this is this is mine and it's been very helpful to me and I hope it'll be similarly helpful to you it's something I call the X 210 fallacy right the X 210 fallacy and you can just imagine there you've got you know numbers 1 to 10 and just imagine a continuum where one is no religiosity you could even say hostile to religion right these are people that you meet that are either totally secular or they might be atheistic so either ambivalence or indifferent or downright hostile and then through the continuum all the way down to ten you have baptized spirit-filled you know church attending follower of Jesus right that's ten so anywhere along that continuum everybody that you meet is gonna fit somewhere on their right let's say you meet somebody who was raised a Christian but doesn't really you know now they've married somebody who's not a Christian they're not really going to church now and you know they're they think Jesus is pretty cool but Christianity doesn't form a major part of their life maybe there are three right or maybe you meet somebody who's a devout follower of the Islamic faith and so they're very religious but they're certainly not religious in terms of a Christian view of religion maybe they fit somewhere around a six or a seven because they're very religious they're very devout but the Christian thing is a bit of a non-starter for them everybody that you meet is gonna be somewhere on this continuum right maybe you meet somebody who's who's loves Jesus and and occasionally comes to church and but but not so sure about certain aspects maybe they're a 9 maybe they're just very close to coming across whatever 10 is and I'm using 10 here is whatever your personal finish line is I think for most of us that would look like baptized church attending active in church that sort of a thing right so 10 is is sort of the finish line okay so the extra 10 fallacy goes something like this when people are moving in their various religious journeys along this continuum the only really measurable metric of success what we might call success is when somebody's baptized right when when somebody's baptized and they become a follower of Jesus and they go under the water and they come up and they start regularly attending church we say yes whew that's great and we celebrate it and rightfully so we've had some amazing baptisms take place in this church just in the last few months it's been awesome what's been happening it's just so thrilling but I want to tell you something 10 is not the only place where success is seen and measurable okay that's what I want to talk to you about the 10 a 10 is the most measurable but not the only meaningful metric metric of gospel success notice that I've modified the word success with the word gospel gospel success so gospel success might look something like this let's say you have a co-worker or a friend or an associate who's not really super religious they're open they're interested in one day and of course the course of a conversation they ask you a question about something that's you know tangentially religious and you're able to bring up your own faith and how that's been really helpful to you and you're a member of a local church that you feel really good about and you love the community there and they then say something like this what mouths that's interesting to hear how religion has helped you so much I've never been a very religious person but but maybe someday I'll look into it okay okay beloved that is not baptism that's not surrendering to Jesus that's not reading and studying their Bible or volunteering at a local church we get that but maybe they just transitioned from a three to a four right maybe they just moved along that continuum and here's what I want you to understand here today if anybody moves in any particular in any numerical value along this continuum of 1 to 10 that is success it's not success that's measurable by a local church or by a pastor or by some metric on a spreadsheet but heaven sees it as success and so the extra 10 fallacy is this idea that you've not really had gospel success until somebody's baptized until somebody becomes a member of a look no oh no there can be all kinds of wonderful little incremental fractional successes along the way in fact I'm going to tell you a story of my own experience where my arm conversion was was a little bit here a little bit here a little bit here and I imagine for those of you that were not raised in the Christian context in a Christian environment yours is probably similar you had a little something here that kind of got you thinking and then a little something here and maybe a bit of a roadblock or an obstacle but then he overcame that and all of a sudden you're you're maybe not to attend yet but you're at a seven he used to be in a four you used to be in a three you used to be a tattoo so I want to disabuse your mind of this idea that if you didn't bring somebody from wherever they were all the way to baptized member of your local church that you've somehow failed no no no no no no any progress toward Jesus any progress toward God is gospel success can somebody say Amen so you got to modify sort of how you view what success looks like especially in ultra secular context like the one we find ourselves in here we must learn to better understand and to better appreciate gospel success which is any movement fractional or otherwise towards Jesus and towards God we must learn to trust God with those less measurable metrics of gospel success right there's going to be some situations say you have a neighbor for 10 years well that's a long-term relationship maybe you have a client for 15 years that's a long-term relationship and they can see your honesty and they can see your integrity and they can see how you conduct a bit fine but if if you just get in an uber car right you take an uber or a taxi or something or you're in a checkout line or you're in another town you're getting your haircut in these sort of these short little interactions that are very likely not going to be repeated you have to measure success differently it's very unlikely you're gonna get into an uber car and at the end of the bar I'd be looking for you know water to baptize the person in you know hey we need to find some water before you drop me off so I can quickly baptize you so you're gonna have to modify how you view success how can you if opportunity presents itself positively influence this person for the gospel how can you just make a favorable impression upon them for Christ okay changing modifying the way that we view what success looks like let me just give you some examples of how this works shortly after my arrival here at the kingscliff church I was hounded and I don't think Carolyn would mind me saying you that I was telling you that I was hounded by by one of our members Carol eesh okay you have to come you have to come you have to come to my local school you have to come you have to come it's a lovely school up the road Hillcrest many of you are familiar with it you have to come to my local school and speak I've been telling my chaplain about you and she was hounding me and and I would later find out she was hounding been on the other end oh my god the guys we got the greatest pastor he's so wonderful he's great you have to have him come and speak and so you know God bless Carolyn she is so enthused when she gets her mind set on something it is going to happen right just that's just the way it is if you know Carolyn so anyway it eventually works out and I go up there and meet Ben and he's a lovely guy and and he's the chaplain there of the the large school Hillcrest and and we hit it right off and I give a staff devotion goes great he says to me hey I'm so sorry to do this to you but we've had a cancel his cancellation could could I sneak you in in five weeks time because I had somebody yeah of course I'm happy to sneak in so I went and I did a second staff worship went really well he then says hey you know after he'd sort of sucked me out and so I can trust this guy would you come and speak to the students so I went and I did a chapel for the younger students then later a chapel for the older students and then on one day a chapel for both students and so Ben and I over the course of about eight months to a year are developing a relationship right I'm Ben's a follower of Jesus I'm developed developing a relationship with him so he comes to me one day in fact the last time I saw him after I was actually not the last of my son but one of the last times I saw him he came and he said hey I could ask you a question he said I've done a little research on you you know Adventist people and you seem you know like your gospel believers but you've got some weird stuff and can I ask you you know you I just love the way you teach I love the way you preach I love the connection you have with our students and the rapport and they listen to you can I ask you a question I should be really open and honest with you and I said yeah yeah bad knock yourself out what is it he said I gotta ask you about this when you die thing you don't go to heaven he said you guys believe that when you die you don't go to heaven well now this is an opportunity for me to set him straight biblically or to show him the truth biblically or it's an opportunity to build a bridge right now I'm dealing with somebody here who's a follower of Jesus who loves God somebody that I view as an ally somebody who's in a secular context secular country trying to make an impact on young people for the gospel so this is not an opportunity to build a wall between somebody that I regard as a colleague in Christ so I'm gonna build a what what do you think I'm gonna build I'm gonna build a bridge and it's not difficult to do I say this to Ben I said Ben I'm so glad that you felt comfortable enough with our relationship just to ask me straight out what it is that I believe and let me just put your mind at ease here what you and I believe is experientially identical and Ben's like why well explain that to me I said well let me just give you an illustration if something were to happen to me on the way home let's say I got involved in a car accident and I died today is I'm traveling home what do you believe scripture teaches what do you believe would be the next thing that I would know what would be my next conscious thought then he said Jesus in glory you'd see Jesus in glory I said that's what I believed I believed that if something were to happen to me and I were to die on the way home today that the next conscious thought that I would have would be Jesus in glory I said the only difference is I believe that there's a period there that the Bible calls state of a sleep between when I have that experience you think it happens immediately I think it happens at the resurrection but experientially what you and I believe is the same you know what he says it's a man that makes a lot of sense that's a bridge there was ample opportunity there for me to build a wall to put up a wall because we're coming even though we're both followers of Jesus were coming from different denominational affiliations different denominational loyalties and I could have easily said well in 1st Corinthians chapter 15 it says and in 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 it says and in John chapter 11 it says I could have given a a a bulleted Bible study I could have done it and I've done it many times before but rather than peppering him with with what I regard as the biblical truth and I do regard it I'm gonna use this as an opportunity to continue to build bridges with somebody that I regard as also a follower of Jesus so here's the first little tool for your toolbox when you're dealing with those that love Jesus and who take scripture seriously as God's Word maximize similarity with them maximize similarity don't build walls when bridges will do and here's why in religious conversations whether it's with a Muslim which I'll talk about in a second or a Baptist or a Catholic or an atheist the walls are already there the religious walls are already there so you don't have to build a wall because they already exist right if you build more walls all you're doing is adding to the battery of walls that already exists between your worldview and theirs so rather than building walls that will take care of themselves seek to build bridges how do you build a gospel bridge how do you make that transition that jesus and paul so seamlessly made and that Ellen White said in regards to our hospitals we should make that we would give a clear simple answer that doesn't unnecessarily arouse prejudice how do we invite fishermen to be fishers of men and how do we speak to women who need water about the water of eternal life and how do we speak to young men who are financially motivated about the best possible investment that's what we see happening here right I'm speaking to somebody well I could talk about the bridges I could talk about the differences I could talk about why I think his view is wrong and my view is correct there there there's a time and a place that's not the time in the place right there the thing to say is been what you and I believe is experientially identical and then I did clarify what the nature of the difference was and you know what happened he leaves saying that makes sense and do you think I still get invitations back of course I do because the relationship is still there so many times in our witnessing it's not witnessing at all it's actually just closing doors on people closing doors on relationships and and making sure that no one ever asks us again about our faith or about what we believe at the end of the day you always want to leave people positive feeling positive about the interaction that they've had with you if it has been of a religious nature let's talk about my experience with Jehovah's Witnesses so you might not know this but my own personal conversion to Christ actually begins in part with Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my door so when I meet Jehovah's Witnesses such has happened not too long ago right in this very community when I was out with Mel buret we were walking around the streets interviewing people for our annual Christmas program last year and we were interviewing people you know what does Christmas mean to you at cetera etc and we came up to a group of Jehovah's Witnesses that were there handing out tracts as they do I already knew the answer in advance but it would have been socially awkward to have asked all the people around and then just to have walked by them and so I'm going to extend the invitation say hey guys you're out here handing out tracts could could we interview you for our local church program on what does Christmas mean to you and they say absolutely not of course that's not going to happen you know that Christmas is a pagan and they start right into it they are just they're just right in to you know Christmas this and Christmas that it probably didn't help that I was wearing a Santa Claus hat to try and entice people into the interview but before they could get going too fast this is one of the first things that I said to them and I often say to my friends that are Jehovah's Witnesses or people that I meet that are Jehovah's Witnesses I say I'm I just want to say I'm personally so thankful for the work of Jehovah's Witnesses now let me tell you right now when you say that to somebody who's a Jehovah's Witness they do not know what to do with it because no one ever says that to them never never never because if you have friends or associates sit at your home as witnesses you'll be aware that there's this very strong us in them hey no you know the world is you know out to get no and against an antagonist Hoss and that's happened right there in that conversation they were right into it they were gonna give me the truth about Christmas and the truth about pagan origins and the truth but they were into it and so I quickly interrupted and said man I just want to let you guys know I'm so thankful personally for the work of Jehovah's Witnesses and they're like you know the jaw falls to the ground they've got to pick it up how how can you be thankful for the work of Jehovah's Witnesses well I tell them I became interested in Jesus through the visit of two young men Jehovah's Witnesses to my home when I was 22 years old and I was a purple haired punk rocker and I was kind of interested in religion but not really interested in lo and behold one day two Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door and that began a two-hour long conversation that happened at my doorstep at my doorstep and they answered many questions that I had and then I say this those young men were helpful respectful kind and passionate and I'm just so thankful that those two young men came to my door because they got a purple haired largely atheistic punk rocker thinking about Jesus so so thank you guys so much for the work you're doing carry on we understand if you don't want to do our interview have a great day they don't know what to do they've just been roundly affirmed and I've just spoke with such positivity to them and as I'm sort of walking away hey thank you so by the way I'm the pastor of the local seventh-day Adventist Church just up the road and they're just like what do you do with that right what do you do with that because even when people come to me with with combativeness or with hostile hostility and they want to get into a theological machine-gun fight no I'm gonna cut it off and I'm gonna speak insofar as it's possible with affirmation and with approval so here's your second tool in your toolbox not only maximize similarity but affirm and appreciate others so that you preemptively disarm potential hostility or combativeness affirm and appreciate and that segues really nicely into the third story that I want to tell you about suparna who is a Hindu clinical psychologist so many of you will remember from several years ago we had an arised student named a keel and a keel came here and he's Indian origin and he I in the course of our conversation he loves guitar I love guitar he was Bible working at the vine for a while attending here quite a bit too and he I told him that I love Indian food and he said oh man you love Indian food that's it that's my favorite food he said my mom is coming up to visit in a few weeks time could could she'll make us all Indian food could you come and hang out with my mom I'd love to have you and your wife and and Robbie Morgan over and we could just sit down and chat and I'd love for you to meet my mom cuz she kind of thinks you know cuz cuz he was raised Hindu a kid was raised Hindu he's now become a follower of Jesus and mom's not quite sure where to put that right she sees some really positive changes in her son's life that she's excited about but she's a little nervous as you would be if you raised your child in one religious tradition and then they've suddenly skipped to another so would you sit down and eat with my yeah I'd love to so we had a meal not too far from our house there with my wife and and Robbie and Akhil and his mom and our kids were there and we're sitting down and first it's just about food and all of that kind of thing and and then we sort of sit down in the living room in the conversation turns and and you know becomes more spiritual because in many ways I supposed Aparna viewed me as somebody that was responsible for largely responsible for the decision that her son had made right not entirely because he came here as a believer but in helping to solidify his conversion to Christianity and so she had some questions for me right now she's coming from a totally different perspective she's also a lecturer at you know Sydney University and universe we're in Sydney or both of those Akil told me just the story he's electric she's a big shot right she's no dummy and so in this conversation i begin i preempt the religious conversation by saying suparna um I would love to better understand what Hinduism is for you and what it means to you can can you help me to better understand what you believe so I asked her this question and then she proceeds over the course of the next half an hour to tell me about her own personal journey in Hinduism the things that she's really appreciated and some things that she has found personally frustrating so now I'm not playing the role of talking I'm not playing the role of Informer I'm playing the role of what am i doing I'm listening can you help me to better understand what it is that you believe in the course of that conversation I pulled out another tool that I'm going to give to you this is a hugely helpful tool in the course of that conversation when it became situationally appropriate I say Suparna can I ask you a question as a follower of the Hindu faith what do you see as the primary problem facing the world and what is this lucien from a hindu perspective to that primary problem oh she says and she's right in to the Hindu question what is the world's major problem and what's the answer to that right now another tool for your toolbox use the primary problem primary solution tool to better understand an unfamiliar worldview it works with every worldview if you're talking to an atheist you can say from an atheistic perspective what do you view as the primary problem facing humanity today and what do you see is the solution if you're talking to a Muslim you can say what do you see as the primary problem and the primary solution if you're talking to a Catholic if you're talking to a somebody from of the Baha'i faith any thing works right and what happens is is now you get this really open honest give-and-take conversation with somebody where you're doing a lot of learning and a lot of listening now in the course of that conversation suparn begins to reveal some things that she has personally found a little frustrating with the Hindu faith and some really positive changes that she's seen in her son a Kiehl's life and so when it was conversationally appropriate this is about an hour and a half into the discussion I say Suparna can you tell me what do you know about Jesus and about Christianity rather than launching in do everything I've got to tell her right I could spend hours yeah I could talk her ears right off right as I'm doing to you right now it's an this is a time to listen this is a time to say help me to understand your own experience with Christianity what do you know about it what do you know about Jesus and so she responds at the end of that conversation it we had had such a rapport and such a connection she shed tears in that conversation it was a beautiful it wasn't just about religion it was about all the things that life is about religion and children and marriage and life and international moves and all of that it was about all of that and and in the course of the conversation it became very obvious to me that it's going to be situationally appropriate for me as we left to say suparna before we go can I pray with you what do you think she said she said yes of course you can pray with me now was she baptized at the end no but I'll tell you this this is how that conversation ended it ended like this she said listen David if you and your wife Violeta ever if I ever get word that you come to Sydney and I don't hear about it and you're not staying at my and you're not eating my food I will be personally offended okay so did I build a bridge there or a wall yeah a bridge so much so that she's like please come to my house sleep in my bed eat my food that's that success that's gospel success because here a follower of Jesus has had a positive interaction with somebody of another faith tradition of an of a different worldview and they have been favorably positively impressed not with David only that's not what it's about but they have been favorably impressed with the gospel with the gospel can I pray with you and the answer was yes be comfortable in your conversations with others not knowing everything right and be willing to admit your ignorance several times in the course of my conversation with Suparna I had to say you'll have to forgive me I'm not super familiar with what Hindus believe about or I've read parts of the Bhagavad Gita but I didn't understand it could you help me to I'm having those kinds of conversations rather than just pigeon holing people saying oh they're Jabba's witnesses they're all like this up there Muslims they're all like this several years ago I had an interaction with a fella named keifa Abdul Mohammed who was it about Muslim I saw him sitting what was clearly a religious book a holy book it was actually quite a mistake I walked up to him I thought he was reading a Bible he was in fact reading a Quran I walked up to him I said hey brother how you doing are you reading a Bible and he's like no man I'm reading the Quran no okay here we go let's see where this goes and we ended up having a really good conversation in fact we ended up having a relationship that lasted until I moved away from the area we had a great relationship that lasted many months including many conversations but that first conversation that initial conversation went something like this I had learned enough about Muslims to know that when he says are you a Christian that if I say yes what I'm actually saying is I'm a Roman Catholic who supports u.s. foreign policy that's what I'm saying so he says are you a Christian I say I'm an Adventist he says what do you think he says what's that well this is an opportunity for me to say the thing that I learned to say I say well I'm somebody who believes that Messiah is returning I pray three times a day I give 10% of my income return not less than 10% of my income to charitable sources that's important because Muslims returned 2.5 percent I don't defile my bodies with with drugs or nicotine or alcohol I do not defile my body with unclean foods such as pork and I look forward to the judgement and do you know what keifa says keifa said something to me that I have heard many times let me just come back to this many times I have heard you're a better Muslim than I am from a Muslim that's exactly what keifa said to me said man you're a better Muslim than I am you're a better Muslim than I am because I've learned and we could get Sam up here to give us a whole talk about this Sam Bonello who spent seven years in Muslim ministry how to build bridges how to build bridges one of my favorite things in building bridges with my Islamic friends and by the way this works trust me on this step out of your comfort zone in the next time you're just in a situation where it's situationally appropriate this happened to me recently at Currumbin Wildlife Sanctuary the violinist family was out petting kangaroos and you know doing that thing and there was a little shaded spot there and there was a woman and her you know slightly older children sitting you know in the shade and I came down and sat right next to them and this is one of my go-to lines if I have the opportunity to engage with the Muslim I say hey I noticed that you're a Muslim here it appears that you're a Muslim I just want to say to you you know as somebody that's you know lives here I don't believe everything I hear in the media about Muslims oh oh you want to know what you want the lights come on they're like aw thank you so much for saying that we started right into a conversation right into a convert I mean because you have a people who feel to some significant degree that the rest of the world is looking upon them with huge suspicion especially when you're in a country like like Australia or America where they're a minority just going out of your comfort zone to say hey I just want you to know I don't it's amazing conversation instantly you don't believe me try it try it try it actually works really really well understand the elasticity and fluidity of language here's another tool are you saying what you think you're saying right if I say to them yes I'm a Christian I think I'm saying I'm a follower of Jesus who takes scripture seriously that's not what I'm saying to a Muslim what I'm saying is I'm a Roman Catholic because they don't understand the Protestant Catholic distinction they don't understand that distinction some of them of course do but yeah you say you're a Christian the you're saying the Pope is your guy you support American foreign policy that's what you're saying now you know that's not what you're saying when you say you're a Christian so you have to understand the fluidity and the elasticity of language Joel the genuine atheist came to a series of meetings that I conducted in this church several years ago and in that conversation with Joel it went like many conversations that I've had with atheists I had the opportunity in fact right over here in in kingscliff as we were sitting out over I had an orange juice II had a coffee I got to say this to him Joel I am resonant with many of the intellectual motivations for atheism I understand why people are atheist I just want to let you know right out of the gate I am deeply resonant with many of the intellectual motivations for atheism and he's like whoa what a pastor is saying that to me my next line is I actually watched a debate several years ago between a Christian and an atheist and I was pulling for the atheist it's true story because I watched this debate between Dinesh D'Souza and Christopher the late Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh the Christopher Hitchens basically got up front in this debate at King's College and he raised three objections to the Christian faith number one eternal burning hell number two evolution working through all of these you know many generations of death to get to this identity couple you know Adam and Eve and number three the record of the church in the mid our cages okay well guess what my answer is at all of those I agree I wish I could have debated Christopher Hitchens not because I was an intellectual Matt Rand he would have smashed me he's an intellectual giant he's substance since past but I would have loved to have been in that debate because I could have just stood up and said I just want to affirm with all of the enthusiasm I can muster everything that that Christopher Hitchens has said and sit down my speech would have been 13 what would they have done because I don't believe in eternal conscious torment and I cannot try and defend the record of the the Roman Church during the medieval period and I don't believe in evolution as God's means of creation so his objections and now this is a key here's another tool in your toolbox with some groups emphasizing your peculiarities will actually be a strength not a hang-up right some people are they shy away oh I'm an Adventist and we eat a little strange and we talk a little strange and we believe some kind of strange things let me tell you with certain groups like if you meet Jewish people I've had some amazing interactions with Jewish people those idiosyncratic uniquenesses that are that are that are sort of seventh-day adventists are actually strengths when it comes to interacting with people that are on the fringes themselves are on the periphery themselves right okay one more here and then I'll let you go Kate a Pentecostal minister kate has come to this very church on a number of occasions the first time I met Kate I was speaking in her living room and I had been invited to go to Kaikoura New Zealand to take an evangelistic meeting there when we arrived I said to the pastor Paul grete who had invited me to come where's the church and he says oh no there's no Church in this town you'll be speaking in the home of the local Pentecostal minister that's all okay great let's go so I went into Kate's house there and literally in her living room there's 35 other people assembled and I gave a message on why I believe the Bible is God's Word and why I don't believe in eternal conscious torment in the fires of hell okay right I didn't know just right there like in the living room and Kate ends up approaching me afterwards and says man I just love what you're talking about and I love your your presentation and your message we're gonna be in America a little later this year I would love to connect with you this was when I was still living in America man I'd love that one of the dates she gives me the dates I give her my dates and she ends up coming to meet with where we were she and her husband Adrian come and meet with us in beautiful Wyoming and we end up camping together for two weeks well on the second or third night of that camping trip Kate comes up to me I don't barely know her but I'm on a camping trip with her she comes up and says hey can I talk to you about some things could we have dinner at my little you know campsite tonight I'd like to share some things with you I said yeah I'd love to so she puts together this lovely little dinner and we go over there it's like eight o'clock at night under the beautiful wyoming sky I mean it's just Big Sky Country it's just amazing and she gives me an hour-long Bible study on the gift of tongues she says man I love what I'm hearing from you I love what I'm hearing from yours I've watched you on three at the end I love what I'm hearing but you guys don't have all the truth you're missing the truth about the baptism of the Spirit so she gives me this hour-long Bible study in the baptism of the Spirit hour-long Bible study on the gift of tongues and then and I shut up I know that's hard for some of you to imagine but it does happen I just listen listen listen and when the whole thing is done when the whole thing is done notice what I say to her I said Kay first of all thank you for this excellent Bible study I've thoroughly enjoyed it here's three points we absolutely agree on right number one that gifts of the Spirit are absolutely for the ongoing ministry of the church number two number two Phi for her of all the things you just said yes yes and yes notice I start with points of affirmation and agreement okay then after I've spent 20 or 30 minutes talking about points of agreement they're not that long probably five to ten minutes I say to her now here's where we might not see exactly eye-to-eye notice how I've modulated the difference I didn't say here's where you're wrong here's where we might there's a there's a modifier might not see exactly there's a modifier I to I there's a modifier right and I said with your permission I could take a little time to share with you why I believe what I believe and she said yeah by all means go ahead so I then gave her a shorter probably about a thirty minute bible study on passages of scripture that I find really persuasive especially around in and around first Corinthians twelve thirteen and fourteen and as the Bible study is coming to a close I'm telling you the truth Violeta was there as the Bible this short little Bible study that I've given in this context of mutuality women sitting down now for two hours I've been in her home I've eaten her food there's a relationship there she puts her hand her head in her hands and she starts weeping and I'll never forget she says these words why has no one shared this with me until now she's crying the next day we have prayer together we close the next day she comes to me and she says David I was up early this morning wrestling with my Jesus wrestling with my Lord and I am so thrilled with the newfound freedom that I have now in the teachings that you shared with me last night under that beautiful sky well it was just a few months later that Kate and her husband Adrienne came to the arize program and you know what this is a case where they went X they went they went nine to ten they were already followers of Jesus she's already passionately involved in ministry and she said you know what we're gonna make a transition we feel really good and really comfortable with your local we want to transition to the seventh-day Adventist Church you know I said we'll take you we will take you and I tell you I was so proud of Kate she was so responsible she literally as Minister in a small community in rural coastal New Zealand she called up all of those people many probably a dozen or two dozen people that she herself had personally taught how to speak in tongues in a way that she now regarded as not what Scripture was teaching she called them up and said I want to have a conversation with you a sit down and show you from the Bible what I now believe can you believe the responsibilities of this woman of God clearly she is a follower of Jesus and she's a woman of God and she went where scripture directed her so friends when it comes to these interactions that you have whether it's with somebody like Ben or Kate who are already believers or if it's somebody who's an atheist like Joel or a Muslim or some part of the Hindu you listen listen listen and then when you have the the currency the conversational currency to speak only then do you speak right and many of you see me in a speaking context and so you think oh he could never do that trust me I'd do it very well by the grace of God don't in any way diminish or minimize the religious experience or genuineness of the other person that's a tool they should not come away feeling that you've minimized their walk if they're a Roman Catholic or if they're a Baptist or if they're a Muslim if they feel that you have minimized their own you're dealing with a human being you're dealing with a human being who's on a journey a life journey just like you they put their pants on one leg at a time just like you they they cried at the birth of their first child just like you they were devastated when their parents died just like you you're dealing with a human being an actual human being yeah their faith commitments aren't exactly as yours but if you can just remind yourself I'm dealing with a human being who is made in the image of God and who is himself a son or herself a daughter of God it will help you to relate to them in such a way that you don't feel this need this compulsion the ste illogical compulsion to minimize the nature of their own religious experience so this is what it looks like whether we're talking about been keifa Joel or others Jesus and Paul met people where they were not where they should be and that's what we often do is followers of Jesus am I right or am I wrong we meet them where they should be I can't for the life of me understand why we think that non-christian people who don't accept the Bible and who are not followers of Jesus should live like Christians they're not Christians they're not Christians it's unrealistic to hold somebody to and standard that themself is not a follower of Jesus and doesn't take scripture seriously right this is why the Apostle Paul actually says in first Corinthians it's around chapter six he goes so far as to say but concerning those in the world I do not judge because how can you write so when you engage with people you can just move them a little you can just shake off any of that sort of residual compulsion that you feel that need that you feel to set people straight meet them where they are not where you are and maybe not where you think they should be Paul and Jesus spoke the language and entered into the world of those that they were ministering to they entered into that world and there's no greater condescension or entering into that world than Jesus who became a man build bridges not walls because the walls will take care of themselves have you learned anything here this morning is this helpful last time we were together we talked about how to keep Jesus at the center of our theology today we're talking about how do we keep Jesus and how do we keep Jesus method at the center of our evangelistic conversational outreach to those that are around us and it boils down to this one simple idea the walls are already there so you don't need to build more of them work on building bridges it takes no skill to build a wall between you and another person religiously it takes skill it takes intelligence it takes the Holy Spirit it takes savvy to build bridges where they don't easily exist and I've given you today just a few tools so that you can go forward feeling more comfortable that you don't have to get someone all the way to 10 in order to have experienced gospel success a 2 2 a 3 a 3 2 a 4 a 4 2 a 5 any of those or even a 4.5 2 a 4.6 is gospel success give people an opportunity to have a positive interaction with somebody who is a follower of Jesus and that in and of itself is gospel success can you say Amen [Music]

Channel: Kingscliff Church

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Id: iZDxKoeskOM

Length: 58min 30sec (3510 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 30 2018