today's department is The Branding Department millions of followers and subscribers across social media multiple seven figure entrepreneur I have with me Chris doe when we talk about brand it's not what things look like it's about the emotional or rational feeling that we have towards something the way that we do that is we have to be able to let people in on who we are on a personal level every person can do this the whole point of building a strong personal brand is to get in touch with yourself to have high self-awareness and self-acceptance when people show up as themselves then all of a sudden we as humans look at the other person on the other side of the screen and say oh they just like me you're really relatable it's the easiest thing to do it's the most natural thing to do yet it's the least common thing that people do if somebody was like okay I want to put myself out there based on your observation especially even the last years as you really grown like well how would you encourage somebody to be like start building your brand by making these kinds of videos then I hope your audience finds this to be super Val Val here goes welcome to the department where we interview people who are killing it in their department and I'm excited because today's department is The Branding Department if you search what is a brand if you search branding 101 if you search how to build a brand this person shows up I'm fan boying right now and I have with me Chris doe who is an Emmy Award winner uh also an Inc 5000 recipient yes millions of followers and subscribers across social media multiple seven fig entrepreneur and husband of the year and the drippiest out there honestly like look at the look at the Vibes and someone uh who appreciates uh fashion every time I see CH Chris the the bags the brands off-white Louie Alex Studios uh the rly let's go hey I just want to say game recognize game brother dude that's love for real um I've been I've been following Chris for some time I would say even before 2020 and we can even talk about in a little bit how 2020 I think was very big for your YouTube presence um but number one just thank you for being on this is honestly incredible I'm I'm so glad we can do this Omar so I was you know if you go on YouTube and you type in what is branding the the video that comes up is an interview that you did a very short three four minute video with Marty how do you pronounce it new newer and you asked him U you know what is branding and you know he answers the way he would three years ago so I would ask you today um what is branding today I don't think branding has changed I think the modern conception of or the modern concept of brand hasn't changed since Marty's written about it the ways in which we manifest the touch points change and evolve a little bit but let me just try to make it really simple for everybody to understand when we talk about brand it's not what things look like it's about the emotional or rational feeling that we have toward something the fact that we're willing to wait in line to queue up to get something or to search and scour the internet to find a little tidbit a morsel of like when the new drop is coming or anything there are a couple of people a couple companies that have this in Spades and the rest of us are mere mortals trying to achieve that level and the way that we do that is we have to be able to let people in on who we are on a personal level or to create certain expectations that are positive associations with that company and we can get into it as deep as you want but that's kind of it in nutshell think about associations you can have negative associations or positive and that's part of your brand so if you show up and you treat people poorly and you're a bit of a jerk well that is your brand it's a negative association conversely if you're generous if you're always kind to people you you take an extra minute to to Really genuinely want to help people that will be the positive Association or your positive brand so something that comes to mind as you explain that is there's an organic nature to it but then it seems like there's also a very intentional nature to it because should you be surprised that people feel way about your brand or you should be like no this is exactly what we decided because it's it's like being yourself sometimes isn't a subconscious decision or I you know what does that does that make sense yeah I I don't know if always that people are intentional about it and or if intentionality is always good and I'll tell you why often times what people think is oh I have a really strong brand and there's a team of people sitting here thinking about like how you should show up in the world that ain't you and it's very manufactured and sometimes the team of people is just you and you say well I need to be this person to be accepted to be loved and not to be ridiculed in public so I'm going to put on this Persona and you become that person you're too crafted too manicured uh too much layers of varnishing and it's was like well who are you and this is why when when people show up as themselves or sometimes they show you a little bit more of like this is what it looks like when I'm really messy and ugly and I'm not having a beautiful thought or beautiful philosophical moment in my life I'm just going to share with you then all of a sudden we as humans look at the other person on the other side of the screen and say oh they just like me you're really relatable my God I didn't know you struggled like that I didn't know you have bad hair days you know I I have bad days every day but I'm just putting it out there you know what I mean and then all a sudden like oh they're they're not that weird or they they remind me of my cousin or my dad or my sister my mom and I like them a little bit more so I mean it's CU like there's there's so much thought at the same time I I'm trying to get to a place of like somebody's at zero or or or I guess I could ask you like how long did it take you till you knew what your brand was or that's a very good question and we we talked about this on a different podcast but what you see what happens with people typically is when you see a first piece of content that's going to be the least like them as a real person because that's them thinking I don't want the world to think badly of me I need to show up as a professional or as caring or as loving or as an athlete and I always have everything buttoned up over time what that person hopefully starts to realize is man that's a lot of work to pretend to be that person and I don't know maybe one day I'm just going to show like hey here's the weird thing about me and then they start to pull back the layers and then they realize okay I don't care anymore if the world judges me a certain way I'm just I got to just be me it's the easiest thing to do it's the most natural thing to do yet it's the least common thing that people do so what happens is over time if you notice a personality yourself our our mutual friends you might see this Evolution and you think oh the person's changing they're not they're becoming more of themselves and it's a beautiful thing to see have you ever wondered to yourself or asked yourself the question when you you watch my content how the heck does Omar's quality of video look and sound so dang crispy it's literally the number one question I get asked whether it's privately in the DMS or people commenting on my videos on Instagram or even on YouTube the reality is I believe the quality of videos that I've been able to produce has been the recipe to my success online and I want to give you access to my live document where I've listed out everything I use both for the podcasts I create to the YouTube videos I make as well as to what use for my smartphone to make it look and sound amazing the reason I put it on a live Doc is cuz I keep this document updated in real time with everything that I'm using so just head over to the video.co Chrispy or just click the link down in the show notes let's get back to the conversation that's really good you know what's funny is as someone who like does video teaches video you know there's this wave of like hyperedited content and I noticed this about last year in the summertime that I started consuming videos that weren't as edited you know jump Cuts fast you know text and like crazy over stimulate stimulating content and I'm like the the videos I'm attracted to are actually videos that aren't heavily edited and it looks like the pendulum is even swinging back to you know not intense edits and there's this YouTuber that kind of blew up recently I don't know if you know who he is what is his name uh Sam Sam Sam suik have you heard of him no dude 21y old bodybuilder 45 minute daily Vlogs no just jump cuts no text no music no nothing two million subscribers in 30 days and he's just driving he's got his he actually has his mic clipped onto his hat but I I say that to say that there is it's funny how it's like a journey of undoing some people I think for for a guy like him maybe he has like zero insecurity so you can would you say insecurity is probably the killer of all brand builders it can be but insecurity could be your brand too and this is a really weird thing to say like I'm really insecure about X Y and Z and hopefully you don't judge me too poorly and just to put it out into the universe the the whole point of building a strong personal brand is to get in touch with yourself to have high self-awareness and self-acceptance and to say like hey this is the way it's going to be you know I can sit here and wish all day and night my hair is going to grow back it's not and it's okay I'm cool with it you know I I know what my limitations are I know what my zone of Genius is and I'm not going to oversell my shortcomings and undale my genius I'm going to celebrate both I'm really good at a couple things I'm terrible at lots of things and that's all of me what would you say is like some of the best brand building type of content what do you mean like if somebody was like okay I want to put myself out there based on your observation especially even the last years as you really grown like well how would you encourage somebody to be like start building your brand by making these kinds of videos then okay I'm going to give you a funny answer okay dang it my funny answer is this is the best kind of content you can um pursue consume to build your personal brand is to go to se a therapist that's because what the hell are you talking about you're as broken as everybody else and you're you're fronting as much as everyone else so we can learn the tools what kind of cameras we're using what kind of lighting setup we can do all of that that's not going to help you but if you were to invest time money and energy towards something go figure out who you are like heal learn to love thyself and then hold up your freaking iPhone with crappy audio and video and just start talking to the camera that's going to be the best brand possible you may not become an overnight sensation you might not become the Sam guy who cares the whole point is not to chase those numbers the whole point is to just fall in love with who you are you'll be much more attractive you know we talked about this at a conference recently about what makes people so charismatic what is it that draws people to them like they're this magnetic being and you kind of know and it's usually not the prettiest woman who walks in the room it's not the buffest coolest looking guy who's like who hunts with a bow and arrow and and is like 6'2 225lb rip top to bottom she's not that person it's actually some person who's kind of doesn't call too much attention to themselves creates space for others and is super comfortable in their own skin there's something really attractive about that and the most beautiful thing about this is every person can do this you may not be born with great genetics and cheekbones and height and physical gifts but you can be born to to learn to love yourself and to create space for others to do the same dude it's so good you have great cheekbones by the way I don't know if that's why you said that just kidding subliminally I'm just going to put that out there hashtag cheekbones yeah um so do you help people build their brand is or companies build their brands and I mean you probably done it at a at a big level so like because like we're in a era where single individuals can build a brand a personal brand but then companies could build Crazy good brand right what are some themes throughout either or both of those that like that matter at the same level I think foundationally the concept is the same philosophically the application is very very different so when we work with corporations like really big companies they're trying to figure out what are we and we're a group of people with opinions and no one opinion seems to be it so it tends to be very watered down very generic and then there's like zero personality what we try to do especially with most companies or corporations is to help them figure out what is the origin story like when the founders came together to do something they wanted to change the world they wanted to make it better in some way somewhere along this journey we've forgotten about that mission so we got to go back and ReDiscover it so we got to go back in time and find that so that's what it is now the difference here is there's a whole committee still making decisions and we we have to make decisions that's smart for the business growth because when we make poor decisions like recently with bud I believe they did something with transgender and it just messed up their brand in a way that is going to literally cost them billions of dollars lives are on the line so we don't want to mess around with that so that's why it's usually there's attorneys there's marketing departments there's strategists and right and they have to do this because they have to make calculated decisions and we get that if you take it over to the personal side there is no committee it's just you it's just got to be you and I've said this recently building a brand isn't a product of invention it's a product of memory who are we when we're between 3 to 9 years old that's who we are but through conditioning through parenting through schooling we've lost that because our entire Society punishes people who stand out you're an anomaly you're going to get put in a different classroom you're going to get held back you might ride the short bus who knows and all of a sudden your entire world your social structure collapses around you because your teachers your friends are now going to look at you and treat you differently so we've learned to to um go along is how we get along and we've we've done a lot of going along and I'm just trying to help people and to give them permission like you know what why don't we do some of that deep work why don't we go into the Shadow and figure out the things that you have guilt and shame over that create anxiety and frustration for you that makes you angry let's explore that cuz that's the real you and we have to learn to recognize those parts to embrace them as who part of us not to say we have to accept them but to say like okay we can work on those things but we're not going to pretend they don't exist and so when you walk in a room and you you you see somebody it's like oh that person's so pretentious mhm they're pretending to be something like don't talk to me like that I'm just just another person don't pretend like you're better than me I'm tired of that and I'm sure everybody in this room is tired of it too and I will tell it to to your face so you because you mentioned earlier that like branding is like the emotion but then maybe an immature way of approaching starting a brand is caring about the the the image up front that's usually how people start right so I started that way I'll just put it out there so there's like let's get the logo down let's get the colors down let's get all so if somebody maybe when you had your agency or you know do you still have it or it doesn't do anything it still sits there okay so like you you know somebody comes to you and like hey we need a logo and you're like we need a brand or what's the brand like what because I would just imagine people are with the websites the colors and all they're focusing on all that stuff which has less to do with the emotional side of things as far as getting people to feel something what like how do you deter that priority let's talk about that um the word brand and branding has become a catch all phrase to mean all kinds of different things to people so we need to kind of clarify most people don't come in just say I need a logo they're like I need a new brand Chris I'm like let's unpack that word what do you really mean let's explore why you need it what's happening in the business and the market tell me about the motivations behind this we're going to have a conversation I don't care that the clients know the right terminology to use I'm not expecting them to I the professional need to know that if you're a doctor some comes in like oh I need surgery like okay I understand like let's talk about the pain that you're experiencing while you're here and then we'll figure it out together and a lot of creatives they think well the clients are supposed to know all the terminology and the strategy I said do not wish for that future because then you'll just be a production monkey at that point we need this and put a that type face and those colors and we need 14 videos that going in we don't want that so we have to learn to speak the language for them so when they come in they're going to say something like I need some new branding I need to Rebrand let's talk about what that means then we start to unpack that often times what really means is we have a bad relationship with our customers we need to fix that okay now we do real branding which is how's your product how's your customer service let's start there what's the onboarding offboarding process like what are the reviews and the feelings and the sentiment of people towards your product service organization so we have to do a little bit of like um empathy mapping we have to do a little bit of research and kind of checking in with all the employees okay now we can start because that's our Baseline here's where we're at as a company through across all the touch points here's where we'd like to be are we committed to this now it's one thing for us to say we care about customers and we make great products when in in fact those are not true so there's something that I read from the late Tony Shay from his book delivering happiness and he said forget the brand and everybody's like what what do you mean forget the brand he goes get the culture right the brand will follow no company has a strong brand with a poor culture because because and I'll tell you a little story right now if I used to be a fan of this particular Airline I'll just say it Southwest Airlines they're goofy they're funny they give their flight attendants a lot of leeway with how to do very procedural things and so I laugh and I'm like hey that's remarkable the way you told me don't cry like a baby when the plane's about to crash okay I get that that's funny but then I had a bad experience happened huh somebody came over the microphone and they say funny things they're like stand up comics that are flying the plane and I love it I'm just saying that the plane's tripping out and they're like yo don't cry like a baby I'm sorry well no this is like before the plane takes off they're like okay you know if that person's acting funny slap them and then put on your mask or they have fun and we know that they're saying in just not literally to go do this so it's the fun Airline it's a little cheap but it's fun then I'm flying on the airline and one of the flight attendants treated me really poorly like I was like I'm not being rude why would you talk to me like that and it's last it's created a negative emotional feeling then I'm willing to for free badmouth them right now I even sent them review saying I've had a horrible experience I'm reconsidering booking with you that is one employee out of thousands or tens of thousands of employees wow when you get the culture wrong the brand dies dang you know what's crazy you said the like the product and the like the service um something like chick-fil-et yeah it was all about let's just make better chicken sandwiches because they were they were actually up against another company when they first got started and they're like hey let's not do what they're doing let's just make a better sandwich and it like make Chick-fil-A what they are now yeah dude social media coming out now dude like Chick-fil-A is awful but like their customer service is on par but because I'm learning about like how they're M now making but something you mentioned about how companies can lose it along the way because they're trying to scale uh or their goals may be changed or you know what have you but uh it's crazy how much they that saying that like it takes a lifetime to build build a reputation and like 5 Seconds to lose it or whatever like that's so real uh when it comes to companies and when you think about it at that level it's and like it's funny how like when we think about branding we think about okay what are the major company like who would you say let's say that maybe everybody would essentially know like they're killing it they have strong brand it's very easy there's this thing there's some science behind this and don't pretend to know all the Neuroscience but in our brain if you think of your brain like a Japanese bental box right there's little compartment for Rice cucumber protein something like that potato salad there's compartments and our brain kind of works in that way too so in every category of every product there exists maybe number one or number two sometimes three or four but not that many and it's because it's a complicated world we can't be sitting here remembering every every single thing like if you had to figure out like who is the first person to break the 4-minute mile you would you would know who who was the first person to step on the moon but who's the second person who did that and you kind of just start to forget like for you I see that you're a fan of lroy now they have a a place in your heart and your mind when you go to the store you're not looking at all the other brands how many brands of sparkling water are there there's a lot and to each person they're going to have a different preference and so it's always the battle for the heart and the mind and we know okay you're rocking fear of God stuff so fear of God for you is killing it and and based on the line of people that are ready for their their popup sh shop clearly they've they've cultivated Community culture around a community that's something that's really powerful and so we know and I'll tell you how you know and everybody can answer this question differently versus like here's what Chris thinks is think about the different products and services you consume that you have a preference for that you can't EXP explain that you're willing to pay more money for that's good so this is really clear when you're competing on price you have no brand unless your brand is we cheap that's Walmart's brand and for some people they love that but in most places if you're competing on price you have no brand because almost the definition of brand is preference and willingness to pay a premium that's it doesn't have to be more complicated than that that's really good that's something I've been learning with with with selling my coaching because it's you're literally selling invisible it's it's not there's nothing tangible to it I have to determine the value but then I have to get really good at um uncovering that value and so that's why this J this year I've committed one of the skills I wanted to grow in is sales and I know you talk about this and I love your philosophy helping especially creatives uh determine these things and how to when to say the price and not you talk about like not uh having having to justify it necessarily and um but I I've had a lot of I started as a freelancer video photography I've been doing that for 15 years until it got to the place where it makes sense to like probably teach this stuff and a pattern I saw even in my own Journey was like like how do I even charge and I think that's a I think a lot of people who are entrepreneurs especially online entrepreneurs are asking that question what would be your philosophy around that the shortcut on how to charge super easy e easy to understand really difficult to do and I'll explain the concept and then I'll tell you why it's really difficult to do if we were to think let's just say all creatives are very fair-minded egalitarian ethical people clearly not true but let's just pretend for the sake of our conversation this is true what would be the most fair thing to do in the marketplace to have a fixed price for all products and services or or people who come in or name your own price what do you think the answer would be what is more fair for someone to to name their own price or for you to have a fixed price what do you think what's more fair yeah what's the fairest thing to do pay what you can or this is the price I guess pay what you can sounds like pay what you can right like if you went into a cafe and their their literal scien says pay whatever you can today you're not having a good day you're laid off you go in it's like I only have two bucks somebody's like I'm having a great life this meal is worth $30 and the average of it will probably be the price in which they would have set in the first place but yet this is very egalitarian thing pay what you can Church works like that we understand these Concepts right okay kind of what do you mean cuz it's 10% it's a suggestion it's not a rule huh no is a rule no it's not a rule but but 10% applies to wherever so it is a set price like God is giving a set price is God really where's the church because it's it's 10% of whatever comes in your income yeah yeah so it's the same for everybody well it still well it still pay what you can because somebody has 10 million that's a lot more than what somebody who's like I'm broke it still pay what you can and it's still up to you it's a suggestion sure you may feel like as a rule but I I say it's a suggestion the mere fact that you show up is a suggestion okay CU there's no gun to head right right okay let's that may or may not be a great piece of content for your audience but let's get back to it so pay what you can so let's just say that's fair okay are we in agreement that that's fair yeah I'm sure in the comments are like chis no they're not I just I do I do think going to a restaurant and it's like give whatever you can is different than here's a restaurant it's 10% or it's a percentage of whatever you make there's a I mean right CU do semantics now I don't know just go go go go go okay we're hung up on the concept right like um like you know you go to the airport and there's a guy shining shoes like whatever you want right everybody has a different idea some people give them a lot some people will give them a little but Blair end has written about this there's the person who shines shoes at a very specific airport that every time he's there the person does such a great job he makes sure to go there and he's like I'll pay what you want thing and he goes on average this is how much money he makes and he makes way more money than if he just said $8 or $12 okay he now he's incentivized to do the very best job he can because he knows how you feel about that service is going to be what you're going to pay I think that's a really beautiful business model let's put it into the real world now when we do a video project what are we going to charge well we can charge a flat fee uh you want to do a two-day setup is five grand let's just say and includes XY and Z and all our customers it's five grand so it's fixed fee but what if we said what is the size of the problem you're trying to solve let's charge you a price that's appropriate for for what it is you're trying to do well then that forces us to have a real strategic conversation that's around business that's going to impact the person it could be I have no problem that's going to be solved by video then it's your obligation and your duty to say well then there's no reason for you to give me money to do this it's actually Bad Business practice in that I need you to to this person who strategy this person is copyri you need an email funnel we know some people talk to them and if that all works out and you still feel like you have a problem that we feel that can be solved with video please come back I'd love to work with you but I don't feel right taking your money right now yeah I will take it if you insist but I don't recommend it and the funny thing is when you do this what happens in the relationship between you and that person what happens with the esteem the trust the feeling like you're looking out for them it's not gonna go down it'll probably go up that's really good right and every time I tell a customer not every time a lot of times I tell them I don't want to take your money I will take it if you force me to but I think you could do other things then they turn around they insist to give me the money I'm like okay I've done the best that I can you don't need plastic surgery you don't need like to climb Everest you don't need that fast car but if you want to I will sell it to you but I've done my duty so if each person that comes to you and says I have a million dollar video Problem what should the budget be it should be some percentage of that it's not a million dollars let's say it's 10% because we're on the God thing 10% so $100,000 is that fair great well I have a $10,000 problem okay 10% of that $1,000 does that help you great yeah and and that's how it should work so that will help them to understand the value conversation isn't the value of your time it's the value of the the outcome you achieve for the other person big difference mindset shift I mean and that's like sales like level up too just speaking their problems or like speaking into their problems and their needs not necessarily what you are all going to do yeah so you're you're you're uncovering like four I think four skills within that framework that I just mentioned right you're doing diagnostic you're doing strategic you're doing consulting you're doing sales and by the way you're also bringing in video expertise in that case yeah and I mean just with my that offer I have which is I call it dialed in a day so I go into an office space or somebody's home if they have this space number one I my brain works cool because I've messed with a lot of gear in a long time and I've set up a lot of shots that like I could see a space and then recommend the gear and then even I come in I set it up with my team and then we train it's like invaluable like it's it's an offer that honestly sells itself type thing but the pricing thing I've always had a how much you charge to do that it's it's evolved this year because tell me the price 15 grand oh that's a lot for the service okay not with the gear not with the gear this guy knows what he's doing 15 grand that's pretty good yeah I like that um and and it's evolved to that because I started with 15 grand and it included the gear okay so there's a level to it too where I'm like in my know where's noer I'm like this isn't worth it in your who my know where's nowh like what is that you shut your belly but I don't know I don't have a no you ever deliver deliver on a on a project or a you know with a client and you finish it and you're like I can't charge that much anymore it's not it wasn't worth my it wasn't worth the time to do that no I've never done that really wait wait no I'm sorry yes yeah my bad question finished the project like I can continue to do that financially I'll ruin myself yeah that's what you're saying yes I had that feeling all the time actually yeah so I started it off it was like 50 Grand and included the gear so I probably made like five grand for the day right and then and then I'm realizing also the problem that it's solving you know like I was learning a little bit more about that and the and the client that's that would pay it because they see the value in in it and so it's funny it's like when I think you talk about this too like usually when a client pays even more they're usually EAS easier to work with too you know they just I know just the case so right now I've landed on 15 and usually it's like it's a podcast setup you know because it's multiple cameras um and then I think the value is really the training um but I think I think the question I was trying to get to is like kind of don't know where to stop so you just said like dang dude that's kind of pricey but then my had like I I had somebody tell me like dude you should be charging 25 Grand and here's the reason why because you're adding a level of um interior design too it's not just the gear it's like you're you're transforming a space yeah okay there's no there's no way there's no real answer to this but there's no ending to what you should charge because as you level up customers the customers's problem is bigger every time M so if you stay within a very specific small to mediumsized business 15 grand they're going to choke on that and then your pool of clients is going to start to contract right whereas if you keep leveling up somebody's like hey I want to look like Johnny but I actually run a $200 million company so let's let's take the abstract lesson The Meta and take it to your specific business is that okay yeah all right so the way that you you're like dialing a day catchy it's got alliteration it's got you know flow to it but ultimately what you're doing is the way I would sell this is I'm going to tell you right now you're going to overpay for what I do except for when you factor into one thing how long would it take for you to do with your team how many iterations would you have to go through and when at what point will you be happy with the result do the math in your head right now whatever that number is I'm going to give you a new number and you're going to just see if that is above or below right that's really good so this is all I would do that that's in an abstract framework there's a friend of mine I can't say who he is exactly but he transformed his business the guy does over a half a million dollars in Revenue in a year and he's a oneperson company right one person company and he works like 10 hours a week it's beautiful and the thing that he shared with me which I I hope your audience finds this to be super valuable sorry friend for revealing your secret but I'm just going to do it here it goes he used to charge a set fee for what he does and he works in the web space so he designs and builds websites for his clients and then he realized okay now that I finished that project I'm on the hunt for another project and that can be grueling so his fundamental shift isn't what he did he just changed how he presented it and how he offered service so he changed from a fixed fee to a subscription fee and I'll talk about that okay so he goes to his prospects and says okay you need a website and websites aren't the static things they need to be updated security all the time things are happening all the time it's like a like a living organism it's like a house plan it needs to be taken care of otherwise it will die if you had to hire an art director a copywriter a web developer and a designer what would that cost let's just do the numbers together let's just say that number wanted being 400 Grand he goes That's Just 400 Grand but if you have to fire replace them now you're talking about compensation whatever exit package time training so now you're losing even more money let's add another 100 Grand on top of that now if you had to hire recruiter we know we have to pay them 20% on top of that so let's just keep doing more math and then you have to find a workspace for them to work you have to give them the software the hardware and then how often do you maintain that so I'm telling you right now all that can just disappear let's just say that's an $800,000 number I will do this for you for less than x% of that annually and what I'm going to do is I'm going to build the site for you I'm going to maintain it and we're going to have quarterly conversations and we're going to keep updating things as we go does that sound like it works for you they're happy he has five or six clients that's all he needs he doesn't have to keep chasing new clients all the time but the onus is on him to constantly evolve and deliver greater value over time this is the subscription model it's different than retainer model and I only recently understood the difference between a retainer and a subscription in this way because I had time to speak with Ron Baker who's like a master at economics and accounting explain this to to me or actually to the audience a retainer is I pre- buby time in bulk for discount so we're always selling time so I'm going to buy 20 hours of your time at instead of $200 an hour1 120 so you're great I got good cash flow and now I'm always woring like what hours am I using and so I'm just going to try to fill that up so you may have a policy in the contract where some minutes or hours roll over but not all of them so next week you add another five hours and you just keep doing that so they burn the hours they don't use you get to charge them more for the hours that go over but that's the model a subscription is we don't look at at hours anymore you're going to pay no matter what and I'm and my team are going to obsess over how to keep increasing the value to you as a customer totally different we move away from looking at blocks of time to looking at Value created M so the way that you honor that the way that you keep clients for a really long time is like you know Mary I've been thinking about the way you're doing this and I think we need to upgrade the the microphone or this and you know I'm noticing that as you're aging differently we need to adjust the lights I got to fly in we're going to take care of this we got you Mary that's the difference yeah no that's really good what was the first thing you did creatively to start exchanging for money like service wise was it graphic design no it's washing cars oh creatively creatively okay trying to be funny that was not funny first thing yeah around graphic design yeah I was a production artist cool cuz like dude it's funny because you are you have such good business Acumen and I observation generally speaking I'm not I'm not trying to make blanket statements but oftentimes creative creatives get into business and offering them their services and they typically they you they have a hard time making it because the business part just kind of messes with them uh maybe they they get a little too attached to the craft or I don't know when did you feel like two questions of it's what are the what what would you say to a person who's like really good at a thing let's say video graphic design photography but like having to get good at business could Rob him from just focusing on like the craft okay can can do you remember that question cuz I need to correct something before I answer that question okay will you remember your question yeah okay okay will you remember it art art like oh you're in the headlights over there all right just remember it whatever it was that you just asked okay all right you said you have good business Acumen I don't I'm going tell you right now I have terrible business Acumen CU I was once like all of you I really was I was ter a business the first three businesses I started I completely failed I didn't understand the difference between revenue and profit like you know how you said oh I would use to package $115,000 $5,000 was profit right it ain't profit cuz somebody had to go there and do that work and if you had to pay that guy to do that job then there might be $3,000 left for profit right so it's not even understanding those principles in my mind that that's how I ran my first business into the ground I'm like what I don't understand this at all my first business I was 17 years old just put it out there okay so I'm struggling to build a business and I'm just figuring it out as I go I don't know what to do what to say and someone on the internet I I want to say her name is Christine it's not Christine she's from San Francisco she was on a Twitter live space call with me and we're just talking about something she goes what people don't fundamentally understand about sales and many of the concepts that you're teaching is they think that by looking at it they understand they don't it's like asking you and me to play chess and I'm a world chess champion that would be your client because they're in business they know negotiation and sales and you say try to beat them at chess and you're great but you don't know how to play chess you're go okay and you're blindfolded try to play that game try to win so that's me as a creative person and I think I only became successful because of two or three different things number one is stupid belief in self like I just love myself like this work is good I don't know why people don't want to pay me but one day they will they just haven't figured it out yet that's number one and number two is just having the belief in s and actually having real skill so putting in your 10,000 hours as Malcolm Gladwell describes it I have a skill so I love myself and I think the skill and the self are matching the rest of it you just figure out on the job but it wasn't until I hired a business coach or actually worked with business people who who taught me not literally taught me but through observation I'm like oh oh you're doing things a little bit differently I would rather do that because what I'm doing is really painful so I learn how to bid that's good and so every time you level up you buy a little bit more time to play the game you know you're not old enough to go to the arcade but when we were at the arcade back in day bro I'm only I mean I'm 33 I I've got arcade dude retro arcade I'm talking about for people who are old enough to remember when you had a pocket full of quarters shut up no not that old come on okay when when we you go to Aladdin's Castle or time zone or whatever we would go golf plan we would come in with a hand of quarters and we'd play like Street figh or something and you put your quarters up because that's how many times I get to play this and somebody's like I got next they have to put their quarter up so the whole point of business and life and game is how many quarters can you stack up can because you want to play the game for as long as possible we know that no matter how good you are it is finite because the time is ticking down already so you got to stack the quarters so what we do is we we we learn a skill couple of quarters that's good but we will run out of quarters banking just unskill and that's a trap a lot of people creative people fall down and they're not entirely to blame because it's an idea that's perpetuated by academics within their schools they say like just work on your craft craft craft craft until you die let's celebrate more craft let's have shows about craftsmanship let's have speakers who are obsessed over craft where's the business part I'm the guy in the back I'm about to like explode out of my skin here like hey you donkeys when do we get to talk about how to sell this stuff yeah how to speak about it how to be positioned in the marketplace so that we attract the right kinds of buyers for our services so they keep playing the craft game and we know that a certain level it's diminishing return on investment of time yeah like you're good you're like nationally good being more good or gooder not a real word is not really going to change your game so what we have to do is we have to learn another skill set maybe we need to learn communication or presentation or sales or marketing lead generation conversion strategy branding maybe we should try one of those things because that will help us okay so the mindset of the creative person is just to get better at craft if I make the most pristin video if the video is extra crispy as you like to say as the young people say or you know oh I came up with a super dope transition yeah that's cool but did you help that person's business grow that's all it is really good and I can make an inferior video and still get better results and and I have evidence for this who does who is the most prolific successful YouTube Creator right now Mr Beast what do you think about the quality of his videos I mean he int I mean he's talked about being in 10 they they've leveled up as of late but no it's like it's m m yeah M mer merp yeah I'm like learning some new lingo here Rich see you got to stay young with the kids no cap this guy just learned cap the other night no yeah top YouTuber and he doesn't have the the sharpest video yeah and he could he has the money but he doesn't and I have a theory as to why when I want to see pristine video I'm going to watch an Apple TV series I'm going to watch an HBO production I'm going to watch a Netflix thing I don't tune into YouTube because I want pristin video with just Flawless lines of words and editing I don't need that actually that creates a barrier between me and that person so sometimes in the pursuit of the perfect pixel we create a barrier and we don't want that barrier dang YouTube juice so how much not mer No Cap juice juice yeah how much did you pay that business uh coach how long into your journey was that your first investment into yourself uh because that's actually you know you in humility you said you don't have it business agen and then five minutes later you're like yo you got to learn sales conversion fulfillment yeah yeah retention back massages you got to learn it all you have to you do learn it right yeah so in the very beginning all of us unless for whatever reason the stars are line just perfectly for us we will struggle for a period of time you may I know our friend Sean probably has we all struggle like we all kind of be broke at some point and then we hit this point and then we hit that proverbial Road the fork in the road and we have to make a decision do we want to do more of the same and suffer or are we going to change sadly the vast majority of the people in our space choose the right road which is the wrong road to lead down the path the more of the same and then they cry and they feel the world is unfair I hear from them all the freaking time and I feel so bad for them my heart does go out to them but I say friend if if nothing changes nothing changes you're just going to keep doing this let's try something else I don't care that's the whole reason why Trump got elected he's like I'm not saying I'm a great option I'm not even saying I'm a good human being but you want more of the same that's an interesting platform to run on right cuz people are like yeah my life ain't great I don't want more of the same I want something different we sure got something different all right but that's another topic so let's try to choose something else so was hiring my business coach care the first investment itself no it's one of many and it's a continue Perpetual investment in myself you might read some books that's an investment in yourself I attended workshops I attended a sales Workshop made my skin crawl out my mind I ran out of that meeting like never again that's the last super sales webinar you in person it was horrific buy my books in the bag I'm like there's zero value being created here all of this was to qualify people to move up to chain to buy more products from that person I don't want that yeah I don't want that I don't know why they keep doing that so I'm like I ran from that I I I I've taken I've enrolled in a weekend course to learn video editing I pay people to say like hey will you share some of what you know and like n don't about I'll tell you what I know I'm like great even better at least let me buy you lunch or something so we're investing in ourselves all the time so about five or six years into my business at this point we're doing about two2 million $2.2 million every year and I'm like hey what's the next threshold because I'm not content with that let's go there's a glass ceiling I want to break past it I meet my business coach Kier McLaren I work with him he helps me to change first year $3.9 million wow okay and that was just the lowest it's ever been since then so we just keep jamming after that I wind up working with Kier for 13 plus years I met with him every single week for 13 years I put in the work for many of those years this is the funny thing about YouTube y'all I'm 51 years old I created my first video when I was 42 so 12 years after this guy is alive I start my first video but by then I've already put in a decade of teaching um I don't know how many years I've been working with Kier at that point so I'm going to go on the internet having the experience of teaching directing commercials making music videos with some of the biggest brands and bands in the world World reflecting what it is I've learned so people are like um how hard was it well you go put in your 10 years then you see how hard it is yeah and if you're good year one congratulations you're a freaking genius the rest of us we just got to work for it it's really good what what is the the thing you want to get better in right now marketing we suck okay dang that's one of that was one of the questions I had was like why you suck yeah why why do you suck suck but what's I think people can sometimes mistake the two of what like the difference between branding and marketing yeah but you're a genius when it comes to branding and you just said like we suck at marketing why do you think you suck at marketing with millions of subscribers almost a million on Instagram at the time of shooting this like why would you say that I say that because I look at the results sadly I I'll talk real with you right now so let's get into some numbers okay um last year I think we did a little over $5 million in Revenue none of it comes from client work we've been client free our our freedom date is December 2018 wow we stopped doing client work that's it it's an important date for us it's like our emancipation right sorry if I use that word how much people are still with you from 2018 you say we good question just a small handful okay some didn't make the transition some didn't want the transition and some of them have left recently to pursue their own career doing what we do so I love them for that so Bravo congrats Matthew good job all right but you know we we we change we evolve right so um so so last year I said we did a little over $5 million this year I don't think we're going to break five million which is concerning to me it's like I only want to move in One Direction it's up I don't want to believe in gravity I just want to keep moving up and so and I think about companies and people who sell one product do one course that's semi mediocre but understand their Niche really well and they do 10 million dollar sales every single year and they do one big promotion or something like that they're done and I think that's cool but I don't want that cuz I'm not doing this purely in pursuit of money money is just a scorecard for the impact I get to make so we're trying to change education but in order for us to think big and actually make the kind of impact I want we need lots of capital to burn to hire more people to keep doing what we're doing and it's okay that we don't make a ton of money I just want to play it on a bigger stage and so that's the problem we have a bunch of courses I think we're okay at marketing and the difference between marketing and branding as marketing is focusing on sales and revenue where brand is focused on long-term value creation I I have no doubt that the long-term value Creation in the brand that we built will be worth a lot of freaking money but in order to get it to that point we have to keep playing we need more quarters on the on the dash there we just need it otherwise I can't get it to that level okay and I don't want to do it by myself I don't want to do it as a three person operation I want to do it as a 50 100 person ation creating the kind of content and educational materials that's going to transform the lives of the people not just in this country but all over the world that's the mission that's good and I have a really big freaking Mission you know how uh Gary vaynerchuck says I'm GNA buy the Jets right so we we understand what's motivating Gary some childhood immature obsession over the Jets and he just needs to do it I know there's a video on that that explains why I want to make enough money I can go out and buy an art school and transform the entire school that's going to require a lot of money it's probably going to require more than $100 million I want to change it I want to change the game you know there's this thing I'm A Game of Thrones fan it's like um Danny Targaryen she's like we don't want to keep the wheel just keeps going one king is replaced by another King by a queen whatever she wants to break the wheel I want to be a wheel breaker that's good what what are you doing now to like make your way toward because here here's you're supposed to say kisi but you missed your mark I don't watch I didn't watch G that's why I miss my do old people watch Game of Thrones only no I'm just kidding no smart people do yeah dang it RI um skull emoj no you say 100 million to trans is it because you're you're thinking about transforming it in its traditional sense because you want to know the plan I'll tell you the plan right now I'll just put it out there I went to art center Art Center is not for sale but I'd like to buy art center they have four buildings they have a bunch of like what I would consider institutional knowledge worldclass instructors they have Antiquated programs on how to disseminate that they're working on it no no shade but I would just like to go and buy it sadly let go most of the administrators yeah create a hybrid school where there's like in-person Gathering space theaters uh common areas workshops and labs and then bring in guest speakers but try to turn as much of the knowledge into a digital product as we can to share with our students who have different learning modalities who may be like uh visually or hearing impaired so that we can we can address that but also sometimes people need to see something 14 times before it gets through their head yeah right and then to be able to disseminate that across the world for a fraction of what it costs today the goal would be to take eight semesters worth of tuition turn into one and offer the exact same program D that's really good I went to UNLV for broadcast journalism before that in high school I took broadcast journalism and I just stuck with it you know people always say like dude you're just so gifted I'm like no I just never put down the camera I would hope that I'd be good at what I do this many years and the funny thing about it go when I was in college was learning it I almost feel like when you when you when you have to standardize education the the it takes a long time to steer the ship which is why there was literally people who were doing like when they when they were journalists they were literally typing on typewriters and like newspapers and stuff and like at the time it was like 20 oh 2009 you know where Twitter is coming along and like news is St stting to be changed and it made me think a lot about the T the signs of times and trying to bring relevant information to a large group of people and also change it when it needs to be changed but it not be so standardized like I how would you see like your way being different in that because I would say that's why they suck the art institutes is because they feel like in order to change this thing we have to it has to go through a process that makes it like no we'll just keep teaching the same thing then yeah I think the arts institute wound up closing right yeah there's some Scandal there too that I can't speak to because I don't know unfortunately cuz I was really close to going I was CU I DOD the bullet brother DOD the bullet here's the problem is that for a lot of people who are uninformed buyers of products and services what looks like a thing isn't a thing like what looks like a Louis bag may not be Louis bag after all might be this $50 knockoff right yeah right so what happens is there are real institutions who know how to teach and then they're like well why don't we create something that looks and sounds and you know and we'll hire the third tier teachers who couldn't get there and we'll teach them here and then we'll take your money we help your parents pay for the education through loans and all that kind of stuff and they go through this and it can only sustain itself for so long and then you look at the quality of education and the and you it's demonstrated in the students themselves like what art institut sorry shade throwing W up doing something significant and and if they did then probably the school had little to do with it and it's actually because they were actually really talented before they got there right and so it has the look and feel of something that's high quality but it is not so we're not talking about that let's talk about taking a really great school and trying to make it better so the thing that works against us is it's run by committees MH there's usually a Board of Trustees and a whole bunch of people trying to like guide this thing that are not % vested in the outcome they just want to make safe conservative decisions naturally I understand why and then you have just Legacy well our forefathers did it this way and their forefathers did it this way why wouldn't we just keep doing it well I don't know if you've noticed the world's changed a lot there's lots of tools and things that are available to us that we can do now here's the example I would give to you four years ago we thought work from home or remote work was a terrible idea now it's the predominant way in which most companies are run and they've been able to do something and it's really important they've decentralized their operation so that there's no cataclysmic failure in case the it system goes down Well everybody's working from home their computers are still working the internet's still working and this is good so we have some redundancy so we have these kinds of programs for finances for computer for security why would we have it for people so totally makes sense so when we're forced to change and innovate we will change and we will innovate unfortunately there's no motivation here to change orative because they're not forced to so I feel like I'm that forc a force from the future to say like I will create a new business model to then threaten you with love there's another model here MH and until we make enough success and noise they will not feel threatened today we're nothing we're like the flea in the back of the butt no one cares but one day we won't be that flea and we'll be a small dog and it will bark a lot and eventually people are like wait what's happening here that's really good and think about this my business coach told me this he goes when companies acquire smaller more Innovative companies it looks like they just bought them it's the other way around I'm like what so when Disney bought Pixar you think oh they just absorbed them kill the competition and he goes that's not what's going to happen it's weird financially they bought them but Pixar bought Disney because the Pixar people will be running Disney m and sure enough John Lasser the whole team because they're so good at doing what they do that Disney realized in animation we just need to learn from them so they paid them a lot of money and they acquired all the top talent and they put them in executive decision-making roles so it's not what you think so this might happen to where a big institution like we love the Innovative thinking we can't get there so we just buy you and now you tell us what to do you sit on the board you run the company and that's what we'll do we'll start to change it that's cool do you will you probably would you call it the future because that' be fire that that that name works for me right now yeah no it's dope I honestly had the same thought over the summer because somebody came to me and was like yo I'm looking for a like a a Content person so now we're in this era where you know having somebody at least one person that understands photo video and all these things uh matters and I just operated in that role for a long time and then I see Gary ve has d Rock and dck you know brought a new breed of genre when it comes to creativity and that is almost like a Swiss army knife of a creative that you understand the um the reason why you're following somebody around and filming them and all that stuff I call him a shreditor kind of me and Sean kind of like we kind of came up with that idea and some guy was like yo I got like 80 I got like 80 to 100K for this person do you know anybody and like honestly I've made a handful of them but they all work for other people now and you know my my brain has been trying to wrap around like how do I systemize the approach to be able to create shredd itors because it's a guaranteed like 50 60 at minimum if you are a young gun wanting to just get a secure job and live somewhere you know like but then being almost like this agency that can um not agency but like you know they can hire people that are certified you know you want me to design the business model for you please okay I'll do it for you right now okay if you do it and you're super successful send me some money later I will okay here's there's couple parts to it you know one of the things that I think is a benefit to being like people like you and me is we get to be around really freaking smart people we're only stupid if we don't actually learn from them right because they're just spilling ideas all over the place so I've learned these Concepts from different people who are in my circle I'm very grateful for that the first part is you set up an academy and the outcome is very clear earn 50 to $100,000 a year traveling the world working with super influential people and not only are you going to produce work for them but you're going to be within a hairs breath away from your the mentor of your dreams how does that sound okay join me I'm going to teach you how to do this the systems the techniques the storytelling structure the strategy and upon completion my other agency a placement agency will help you find a job with one of those people the placement agency is in contact with all these influential people like you need a person I got the right person right temperament the right whatever it is that you need and the minimum that you're going to pay them in 60 or 80 whatever you work out to be but you have to charge a placement fee with them and that's going to be 20K okay now here's the cool thing everybody applies in your program you don't accept because they're not all good enough they have to demonstrate certain things because the biggest thing that you have to do is you have to filter who goes through your program because that's going to largely determine how you're going to be successful I have this Theory Harvard is not the best school in the country or in the world they're just the best at picking the future winners look at Bill Gates Dropout uh Zuckerberg Dropout uh all these guys are just in gals are dropouts because they're going to be successful so what Harvard did was they created a powerful enough magnet that they would apply so they can say Harvard Dropout yeah and that's important so when they're super successful then go back and donate a ton of freaking money and then you say well we'll give you an honorary degree you know those kind of things work now all the rejects that you have this may or may not be ethical but I'm going to say it you sell the rejects as a name to unlv's video Department program because they need students and they can work with them and they will pay you money for those qualified leads so these people have already expressed intent we want to learn we want a career in journalism and video videography or editing you're like you know what you you move them over there dude it's amazing there's a three-way business model right there no and that's that's when I mapped it out I I saw that part the thing I here's the thing I struggle with is the idea that you a lot of these entrepreneurs you would work for and I'm seeing it they're losing a lot of their creatives because they sell a lifestyle type of business Freedom you know do what you want and and then but the guy who's filming them say that message can't can't live by that and so what's happening is is like the creatives want to be entrepreneurs but it's like no dude you got paid for you're you're getting a salary for this job and it's like I also paid $20,000 for you to be here like that that's kind of the thing that I like I'm like I don't know how much I involvement I have in that part but it would it would speak to the placement agency that like hey this didn't work out after a while was like well they had the talent but this person and I know you somebody might just say y just have them sign a contract well I mean I guess but do you know what I'm saying no what's the problem that like I'm guaranteeing like a salary job essentially with the placement a agency but the people the types of people they work for make build their self-belief to want to go out and build their own thing so it's it's a thing that's happening like you mean the people you place then wind up leaving and doing their own thing right well how's that your problem I'll tell you something CU I placed them no it's not your problem do you know how this works have you ever hired a recruitment like a head hunting agency before I have that's how I know this how this works okay so here's the skinny they place people the better they are the less Duds they send you to look at as candidates they make 20% if they quit or you fire them with a certain amount of time then you help them find someone else that no extra charge but after a certain period of time it's not your problem anymore yeah okay they're hungry and desperate for someone to do the work for one reason or another either they're not inspiring or they're cruel they're not good people or the person didn't wind up having a good ethic beyond that then they all part ways all you have to do is call up a recruitment agency right now find out the terms and policies actually you can just skip the whole process type into jat GPT I need a boiler plate placement agency contract that follows industry standards and Norms about fees and termination agreement have it drafted for you it'll just pull it right out I just save you some money that's fire okay just put in K you you mentioned it AI um I just wrote a few things down because I'm not I'm not resistant for it you know like there are some things that are like pretty interesting um what are your thoughts around AI stuff like you know put it you put this phrase in it creates that graphic um you know as far as like the skill that no long we talked about so much about like putting in the time and the reason why there was so much that you had to offer because you spend a lot of time doing a thing and it's kind of like the time to do a thing is is getting small smaller and faster and requiring less Discovery um which makes a person you don't know what your thoughts on AI if you and I had an opinion about Ai and it actually impacted what's going to happen in the future then I would love to talk to you about it but no amount of you and me talking is going to slow climate change or to change the conversation that's happening with AI it's not going to happen so if we if we accept a new reality where there's climate change AI is going to to completely uh disrupt every industry possible then the only real question that we should have is what are we going to do to incorporate AI into what we do to enhance our productivity our creativity and everything else so here's what I think and I I've thrown this out in front of entrepreneurs before is I want you to imagine when you're when your daughter is 22 years old and she looks back on this time and says Dad that was the greatest economic upheaval in opportunity in the last 2,000 years daddy why aren't we in the golden Tower right now Daddy what did you do with AI like oh you know I slept on it I slept on it I resisted I didn't do it or I was slow to adopt and we were destroyed oh that's why we live in this part of town and not that part of town I just want you to think about it like that okay so if you're not incorporating AI into your workflow to automating certain things to improving your customer service onboarding experience helping you generate ideas helping you take tedious things away from what you're doing which you already are by the way then you're then you're going to get left in the dust fire that's it so if you were teaching somebody Photoshop graphic design is that a is that now a quicker delivery of Education information because because now it's like yo you don't have to use the masking tool just I don't know you know you know what I'm saying I know what you're saying you still do because it ain't perfect the cutout ain't perfect there's some fundamental skills that you need to but I'm going to flip the question in a totally different way which is well if I want to learn Photoshop what should I do well why don't you just ask AI design me a curriculum that's seven weeks long that allows me to watch a combination of videos and read tutorials for 4 minutes or 4 hours a day with clear actionable outcomes that are in line with industry standards to to work in a job doing X Y and Z design that for me I'm a 24y old kid I have ADHD and you know I can only sit in the chair for 10 minutes at a time that's what I'm talking about so forget about the threat of like do we need to learn rotoscoping because AI will cut it out for us but think about like how do we become an enhanced human in the pursuit of creativity and self-expression while we utilize all the tools in front of us not just some that's really good I love that you see the shift there no yeah one is threatening one is embracing right yeah I think it's dope like literally Neil just texted me because I did an interview with Neil um and he was like yo I threw our interview in Opus clips and it literally send gives you 10 clips and he was like bro they're actually not that bad you know and I was like turn up dude run it you know um turn up rich turn up turn up the yesterday we were here and you were interviewing uh Leila Heros and before the interview you asked her like is there stuff that you are excited about or want to talk about I didn't ask you that question but are we at that point in the interview now yeah you earned it C the violin the music's yeah what's exciting you now and like what what what's kind of been the thing that um you would hope that somebody would ask you questions about I I give so many opportunities to speak that I'm not quite sure how to answer that stupid question I don't know who who asked that question at first place no I mean Omar are there things that you wish that I would talk more about I'd be happy to talk about them I'm a pretty open book so if there's something you want to know and I don't want to presume that what I think is interesting is what you might think is interesting so are there are the things like little nooks and crannies like hey I thought I heard a rumor about this and I'm happy to talk about it no I guess something that comes to mind is that you probably spent a lot of your time behind a computer and now you just said that you do a lot of speaking and I know you mentioned getting better at communication um but what have you found about speaking and the iterations and what makes people draw to you in a room when you have an hour I think we've lost the art of rhetoric the art of conversation the art of listening and I think whether you're speaking in a podcast like this or on stage in front of hundreds of thousands of people we have to remember that there are humans sitting on the other side of that stage that want to have an experience with you so if you're going to just sit there and talk about yourself and talk at them talk over them you're really missing the opportunity and it's quite sad to me like I go to conferences a lot these days and I get to see speakers and for the most part with a few exceptions of course they're really boring it's very mechanical what they do it's very produced in terms of like they're not going to have a misspoken word or a slide that's got one type on it and I think but why didn't I just watch this on YouTube Ted already does this better than you friend why are you doing this right now and you're killing my brain you're killing my time I'm starting to Res you I'm resenting this conference and those are not good feelings and I look around the room like is anybody else feeling this or am I just the only person awake in The Matrix right now and sometimes I feel like I'm the only one then I go backstage and I talked to a couple of friends I really trust and I really let them know how I feel like dude I can't believe you feel this way too yet we commit the same sin over and over again and I try not to do that when I go up on stage very rarely is it ever rehearsed uh I look at my slides I'm like I hope I got a right order a couple of times and then I go and do my thing and I want to feel the energy of the room I think all public speakers would do better if they were to study crowd work from Comedians and learn to work with audience to be more improvisational to be more conversational so I'll tell you some things that you can do right now just right now if you got a talk that you're doing tomorrow in front of your company board of directors or clients or thousands of people here are two or three things that you can do number one ask audience real questions don't ask them purely rhetorical questions like literally ask him why are you here I'd love to hear from you and just say that and just talk to them like I want to have a conversation with you right now and try to let go of the need for it to follow a very specific talk track and just be a little bit more improvisational the more that you can do that the better number two is to learn to use your entire body and your body language and I think a lot of times we have this model of what Perfection looks like and we try to emulate that and so we walk we're stiff we have our hands a certain way we're very professorial it's like yo it's okay if you shrug your shoulders it's okay if you raise your hands like this Express and communicate through the entire body not just like this this is really really important and I I think the last thing is if you have voices if you can bring a little bit more of like the quirkiness of who you are on there onto the stage into the platform you're going to connect and hit with so many people I'm going to show I'm going to present this to you basketball was played a very specific way for a really long time they wore really short shorts uh they had bad haircuts and they would dribble and do layups there's no three-pointer that's it and then black people get in the game and they're doing all kinds of stuff I'm like whoa this game is fun now it's interesting it's improvisational it's a little flashy and it's it's really fun to watch and you start to see Innovation happen and I think there's something that's really beautiful about black culture here in America is that there's this lyricism to the to the way Black Culture interprets music fashion architecture design Sports performance comedy that gives everyone else permission it's like oh we never had to do it this way the whole time and they like no one told us we we couldn't do it so we're just going to do it yeah when you come from a place of not having a lot you have to use your imagination and you start to break rules like oh we could do anything and I think that's what's really interesting so speaking as a person of color if I can just say that it's like I try to bring in my culture my flare my emotion my my quirkiness my comedy my humor my sarcasm my sometimes inappropriate jokes I'm just going to bring them because you know what I don't care if you hate me hate me but I'm just going to be me great last thing uh you know Russell Brunson I know of him he says he says he defines marketing as he would say marketing is attracting and repelling would you say branding is attracting and repelling yes but I think we're saying in different ways I think attracting branding is attracting and repelling attracting more of people who identify with what you're about and repelling the ones that are not I think marketing is attracting in that it's attracting money and revenue but it's repelling it's like it's repulsive to me the the kinds of tactics that marketers use they're in for a short-term Revenue gain and they'll do anything and everything they can to get that buck mhm we've been burned all of us have been burned by one program or another they had not lived up to its to its marketing and that's problematic so I think the the like the traditional marketer that many of us have problems with they think they can just find an infinite number of new customers or new suckers to sell to and they will and they'll keep doing that until they make enough money they can invest in legitimate businesses it seems like that's the way it goes you know what I'm saying as soon as I said that I saw you SM like yeah I know the plan I've seen it before I would rather just build slowly if it means that we're not going to be a $10 million company as fast as I I would like it to be so be it but I'm really interested in building audience community and meaningful connection and if that takes a gazillion years let it take that long what so I mean you have been able to make decent Revenue yeah what do you do with your Revenue I invested in our people I invested in our programs and that's where I'd like to go so let's say tomorrow you're like Chris I'm I'm a billionaire I'm a philanthropist I would just want to give you $10 million what would you do no strings attached do whatever you want cuz we just we just love you and we want to support what you do here's what I would do I would um take some of the the ideas that I think are successful now and just run it at massive massive scale so what I would like to do is to onboard a whole bunch of teachers that I think are amazing give them a $15,000 advance and say take the time it's necessary to write and produce your course we know you can teach but we need to know that you can teach in video format and we will then just produce that so I would probably need 10 producers and and a bunch of editors working with them so that we're just onboarding them as fast as possible when they're ready to make the content and then to sell that content for a fraction of what it would cost you to get in a normal traditional brick-and mortar school that's what I would want to do so that's going to be a money losing proposition all day long until it's not so when you're about 50 or 100 courses deep into your catalog all of a sudden now that catalog becomes super valuable because somebody's going to have a good experience with this professor and say oh you have this other thing I I wasn't even oh I didn't know that was available and this sounds really cool and I had a good experience and they just keep doing that so then all the instructors went in then the future is in a school wins but when we have a smattering of courses like the the end of the journey is quite quick you might take three or four courses from I was like oh that's that's kind of all they got cuz literally that's all we got that's what happens when your bootst strapped self- financed person who believes in ethical long-term brand building even though if it means that our marketing sucks that's really good and I like that I mean you didn't you didn't say stash it away in real estate or invest in stocks um there's a seems like the concept of being of retirement is not one that you uh subscribe to it was or pay a retainer to well played um chasing retirement was an idea I had until I found out I could retire I'm like I don't want to retire this stupid so I don't need more money for more money's sake this is where I start to kind of get confused because there's a lot of people we know that only live a certain way like people have an like crazy amounts of money they don't live like that so what do you do with all that extra money I think a lot of it is just because the idea winmore is fun for them but then it's like wouldn't the idea of helping more people be better you notice this happens a lot in in the age of the tycoons the railroad tycoons the steel tycoons when they got older they found God they found religion and they started to give all their money away but they waited a mother freaking long time to give that money away you could be doing it on the Ascension right and I'm not giving money away like I'm doing charity because charity runs out it doesn't Empower people you're only feeding them for the day what I'm talking about is investing in tools to empower people to achieve a lifetime of earning that's the way I'm going to do this so there's no point for me to make $10 million and put in a bank what am I going to do with that to make more money that I'm not going to spend yeah I might buy another chain or something but other than that another you know another bag I mean you know I need another bag Daddy needs a new bag but outside of that it's like I'd rather just use that money to help people and here's the best part just trying to bring the whole conversation in in a little Loop here book end it right we talked about personal branding at the beginning and branding I think I mean I I I am very fortunate to live this life that I get to live that the message that we send out through the internet literally reaches some kid in Ghana who doesn't have the opportunity that people here have the financial um resources the mobility just nothing but somehow they can watch that video and start to apply that and transform their lives and I know this because they send me messages I notice because when I walk the streets somewhere other than where I live someone will come up to me in some weird corner of the world it's like you changed my life I'm like what do you mean and I hear this I used to earn minimum wage and then last year I did $150,000 this year I'm going to do$ 250 it took this this makes me smile from ear to ear and I give him a big hug and I say I shouldn't say this but I say it anyways cuz I think it'll impact them I say I'm really proud of you please continue that's good and don't forget to send me some money yeah whis cuz Daddy need a new bag that's all dang dude guys don't hear that which part the new bag no the that part to no they're proud of you yeah I had a friend tell me that uh he was like Hey Omar I just want I don't know the last time you heard it but like legit bro I'm proud of you as a friend bro it got me cuz I was like dang I haven't heard that maybe yeah I haven't heard that from a man even though he was a friend you know like like manto man it it it does something to hear that because uh probably we don't hear it enough yeah um but dude thanks so much could you uh let people know where would they go next step with you from this conversation yeah before I say that uh my wife and I we went to a like a like a relationship building workshop course yeah and there was this man who was teaching it and we were watching videos and reading his book and he says like we all want love but love is such an abstract concept so let's try to make it less abstract he goes we just want to be acknowledged and appreciated that's so fundamental and it's so easy to do I see you and I'm grateful for you so I know this cuz I understand about a little bit about human psychology is when I look at people in the eye I know I know that most people are a little bit broken inside and they needed a word of encouragement in their life and they didn't get it from probably one of their parents or both so when I really want to touch somebody emotionally like just strike a nerve with them I just look them in the eye and just like you're deserving you're good and you need to be nothing more than that and I just see you and I do that and Men start crying immediately in front of me and it's like it's okay it's okay to cry and I think if the world kind of operated on this principle of just acknowledging people and appreciating them just a little bit it doesn't take anything it'd be a better place so I'm going to look at you all in the eye right now and say you're worthy and I'm proud of you keep it up and on that note if you'd like to follow me and find out some more information about what we do I'm on most social channels at the Chris do that's Doo and if you're interested in the future my future and yours as well it's the future f.com it's not the further it's the future thanks very much appreciate you there there's a scripture that that hits that yeah so when when Jesus comes he goes to John the Baptist and John the Baptist baptizes Jesus in the in uh the Jordan River and and then it says in all the Gospels it says this account a dove comes upon him and a voice from the sky says this is my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased it's the first thing God says about Jesus is that I'm proud of you and I and I see you it's kind of crazy huh there's something there yeah
