How To Break Into Tech? Tips From Content Writer To Senior Software Developer

hey everyone welcome back to talk tech with tiff  today i sat down with danny who is a software   developer however her story didn't begin there she  initially was a writer and then transitioned from   going to a boot camp into a startup and now at a  big company as a software developer this story was   so inspiring hearing her journey obstacles  she faced and really how she overcame them   also if you haven't already make sure  to click on the link down below to sign   up for my monthly newsletter where  i share unique discount codes   personal stories and also a lot of career and  tech advice okay let's get started welcome to my   new series called talk tech with tiff where i am  sitting down with industry professionals to hear   about their career journeys and current roles  i created this series to hear from people who   are established in the tech industry so that we  can all learn what these individuals do in their   day-to-day jobs and the type of opportunities  that are out there okay let's get started   hi danny how's it going hey tiffany i'm good how  are you i'm good i'm so happy to see you uh we   for those of people who don't know we've worked  together for quite some time so it's nice to have   have a someone i've worked with in the past on  the podcast yes yeah this is really cool um i've   only done one other podcast before and it was  over the phone so this is a whole new experience   all in person i know you come in and there's like  all this equipment and stuff it's like it's a lot   yeah it's it's cool though this is this is awesome  and i'm really excited to talk to you because you   have such an interesting and inspiring story  really transitioning from writing into into   tech into software development but before we  get into it tell me a little bit about yourself   um yeah so i'm a software developer i work at ibm   um and i'm also a beekeeper and a gardener i do  rock climbing all kinds of things so that's in a   nutshell i love it i know you you led some really  amazing initiatives uh at ibm that that you you   brought me on to with uh gardening and planting  and it's it's such a whole different world like   the garden and and the beekeeping and all  that i think it's really interesting yeah   it's it's a lot of fun i kind of just stumbled  into that so um yeah it's good and i kind of   have brought my sustainability stuff into ibm as  well so yes yes before we get into that though   tell me a little bit about your your transition  really from what you used to be doing with writing   and and then how you it evolved into where you  are today because i know you we went to the same   boot camp different time but same boot camp and  tell me a little bit about your story with that   yeah so i was actually i was an english major  in university i went to the university of guelph   and i wanted to be a music journalist so i big fan  of almost famous i wanted to do that i interviewed   bands in the city in guelph and i made my own  blog just so i could like post the interviews   and then after school i so i wrote for the  student newspaper in guelph in the art section   and then when i graduated i became a content  writer at a local radio station in toronto   and i did that for a few years and ended up  getting laid off november 2017 okay and i i   kind of wanted to do something different i was  in i wasn't quite doing music journalism i was   doing content writing and it was just kind  of a dead end for me it wasn't very creative   uh from what i was writing yeah in my position  um so i was trying to decide if i was going to   go back to school i didn't want to do like  a long-term commitment four-year degree kind   of thing yeah no and then i ended up running  into a friend who graduated from brain station   which was the coding boot camp i went to and  she did the ui program so i just kind of i   googled what it was i didn't know what a coding  bootcamp was i saw the ui program and then i saw   the web development program and i kind of  just went for the web development because i   i made that blog in university i kind of dappled  in html and css on my own time yeah so i always   liked it i just never considered it as something i  could do for a living and a lot of that was i can   get into it but just being discouraged in school  from doing technical yeah subjects so anyway i   enrolled kind of overnight decision i did the  full-time full stack web development program uh   january 2018 to march i want to say yeah um  and yeah went back as a teaching assistant   and then started working in the field and started  doing software development and now i'm at ibm so   the continuous yeah evolution that's great i think  that's that's a question i get asked quite a bit   actually is people who are considering going to  a boot camp in their they haven't been exposed   to the industry like many of us who who went to  a boot camp prior and they're uncertain should   i do the ui ux side of things should i do the web  development side of things so for you you really   chose web development because of your past like  in high school yeah exactly it was just i i always   liked like i learned html and css like back in my  space days i always liked building web pages i did   really well in high school in the web design class  i just again i didn't consider it as a possibility   because i was not good at math um i actually  failed grade 11 math i took at summer school   i had my guidance counselor in high  school tell me to stay away from technical   subjects and to do arts yeah so i just  i really didn't think i had it in me   and in retrospect i see that that was because of  influences that were negatively impacting me at   the time and um so i kind of just i i was really  good at english i was really good at writing   essays i loved reading yeah so i just stuck to  that yeah um and yeah i mean i wouldn't i wouldn't   undo my english degree i loved majoring in english  like that was great but if i could i would go   back and take some computer science courses or  something because i just again didn't think it had   it in me um until i went to this boot camp later  in life yeah i was it was just before i turned 25.   yeah so yeah i know it's so funny i remember  to and i still get asked this a lot too is i   thought i associated that you had to be so good  at math and and science and all this in order to   get into coding like that the two for whatever  reason were side by side which is not the case   at all and and i think it's still to this day  dissuades a lot of people who hear that from even   pursuing it which is really interesting yeah and i  mean even just uh getting into that later in life   and going to that bootcamp i learned a lot about  myself in terms of how i learn yeah so i figured   out i was a visual learner would have been nice  to know that like when i was actually in school   um but i remember i had this ta um  her name's alice so shout out to alice   and she i so things got difficult uh because of  my lack of technical uh background when i started   learning javascript that was very difficult  for me and a lot of that was because i wasn't   trained to think in a problem-solving way and  in that kind of technical way so i struggled   a lot to pick up javascript um and i remember  learning for loops and having a breakdown oh i   yeah yeah because i just didn't get it and i think  uh for me what i learned from that experience was   i need to understand why something is happening  for me to understand it and so alice my ta she   sat down with me and she console logged the uh  iterator in a for loop and like what basically   showed me in the console what is happening like  what is going on in the background and when i   saw that i was like it just clicked um and yeah in  hindsight now i'm thinking about like all the math   teachers i had in school and how like they didn't  take the time you know yeah and unless it's all   it's uh that's a bigger problem in itself right  like one person to like 30 kids in the classroom   that's a whole other thing like there's no way  they could spare that time right but yeah i just   i had it in me i just learned a little  differently than other people so figuring   that out was really nice um and then once i yeah  once i saw that for loop and what was happening   a lot of things kind of fell into place yeah i  know it's one of the things i always say too is   when you're going into a boot camp  especially like you and i did where we   had very little technical background or coding  background uh you're also learning how you learn   and how to learn you know like it's a whole  other skill set when you're learning those   uh for the first time about javascript or for  loops or anything like that because you've never   it's it's a new way of thinking really and  if you haven't been exposed to that or when   you're younger or taking those kind of like coding  classes when you're younger it's just like a whole   you're learning how to code but you're  also learning how to learn in in that way   yeah exactly and you know i think i really fell  into that myth of being like right brained right   brain is the arts brain right yeah i was like  right brain heavy and i just don't think that   that's real i think everyone can use their full  brain um and yeah we when we put ourselves into   boxes like that then it limits what we're  capable of i i posted on uh my stories this   morning if people had questions for everyone i  was sitting down with and one of the questions   that i got asked someone asked for me to ask you  was going from a writing background which uh they   said you know creative writing background and  and being getting to use those that creativity   do you find yourself still getting to be creative  in software development and what you do today   oh 100 um there's all kinds of correlations i  found between my writing uh background and even   just my english training and coding like uh  picking up on syntax comes really naturally   to me and a lot of that is because of like writing  essays and focusing on grammar and punctuation and   having that eye for detail um which translated  really well into learning new coding languages   um and in terms of creativity yeah i think  coding is really creative you know i can i don't know how to say this i hope you can fix  this um basically like there's a lot of room to uh   put your own way of thinking into a code base  and like kind of uh look at different patterns   and writing different functions writing functions  naming functions naming variables like there's so   many different things that are creative and also  just like you know customizing your terminal or   customizing your uh yeah everything right um and  i think yeah i found a lot of creativity in coding   yeah i totally agree and and there's no  one way to solve a problem and and then to   decide how you're going to solve  that problem is creative in itself   yeah exactly and a lot of the time like i do  mostly front-end development right now i'm   actually learning a back-end role which is new for  me but i do mostly front end and a lot of the time   you have to like uh as a developer step into a  user's experience step into like empathize with   the user and go through user stories and i think  that is creative in itself as well yeah i agree   you are very big into in the sustainability world  and green coding world uh for those of people who   aren't as familiar with what green coding is could  you kind of break it down as to what is green   coding yeah so green coding it's a it's a new very  new way of of thinking of approaching software um   it really comes down to the carbon impact  of the code that you're writing and you know   a lot of people are like well what does that  mean and it really is like it's writing clean   reusable scalable code that's going to last  you know long term and if we think about   the amount of data that we transfer in code so for  example i use i use uh front-end examples a lot   because i think it's a lot easier people to kind  of conceptualize but when you load a a web page   in your browser for example there's all kinds of  different files that are coming to your browser to   show what it what you're seeing on the  screen and those could be images videos   um different styles of fonts like  maybe you're hitting some google font   endpoint like urls and all those things are coming  in and compiling and making that webpage but what   we don't think about is the amount of energy it  takes to transfer that data across the network and   it also depends on where the server is located the  web server and where your browser is located so   that distance traveled the longer distance  the more energy is going to be consumed right   yeah so a lot of the examples i've used is like  optimizing your front end optimizing your design   taking into it's like simplified ui like  taking into account like how heavy images   can be how heavy videos can be does this really  add value to your application or can you remove it   do you really need to use custom fonts or can  you use system fonts for example like fonts   that are already available to you all those  decisions um make a difference in terms of the   amount of energy your website is consuming and  you know this kid there's so many examples but   if you also think about optimizing data optimizing  your cloud um servers that are that are dead   and not being used are they still running are  they still consuming power loops in your code   that are running in the background endpoints  that are being hit that don't need to be hit   like are you are you um calling data in that  is like you're not even using it anymore but   you're still hitting that end point and still  making that call that's all energy that's being   consumed right so a lot of that is cleaning up  your code refactoring um and yeah just making sure   uh what your the code that you're writing the  software that you're building is basically using   as little power as possible and has a small  footprint yeah it's so interesting i never had   heard about i mean i think i've heard maybe the  term but until you you really highlighted it for   me it's not even something and i i feel terrible  saying this but it's not even something i really   thought about until you brought it to my attention  and then but once you are aware of it you can't   ignore it you know but i think it's in this stage  where a lot of people who are building technology   developers and many other roles don't aren't  even aware of it at this point which i think   hopefully that will change soon yeah and it can  be over really overwhelming to think about okay   well where do i start i've already i'm working  in this legacy code base already that exists   and how do i what do i do like it's too much  work maybe you don't have enough staff but   even just thinking about the environment that  your developers are working in um are you leaving   your monitors on all night are you yeah are you  leaving your um power bars on can you turn them   off is there anything that you're consuming energy  like in your workspace that doesn't need to be are   you recycling are you composting like everything  right it's not even just the software that the   devs are writing but also the way the devs are  working it's like it's just like keeping in mind   basically the environment and everything that you  do yeah yeah and have you seen more businesses uh   become curious about this or want to transition  over when they are asking for products to be built   um yeah so so uh i've noticed that there is a lot  of software being built that is has the goal of   helping businesses reduce their carbon emissions  by i don't know measuring esg data for example   um that stands for esg is environmental social  and government's data okay um so basically telling   software that's being built that's telling a  company where they can reduce their footprint but   my question is always what about that software  so is that software you're running to help your   company reduce its carbon footprint is  that consuming energy in itself is that   well written um is this an application that's  going to become obsolete in five years because   your code isn't scalable yeah yeah you know like  thinking about the long term and that's a problem   with like our society has is not considering the  long-term impact right so like are you building an   application that yeah is going to become obsolete  in five years can you hand this off to a whole   new dev team and have them take over easily  because you've written good documentation like   those are the types of questions i know and i've  i don't think that that is being considered enough   and again i think it's a very it's a very new  um way of thinking there's something called the   green software foundation and it's actually led  by asim hussein who works for microsoft and he   is their green cloud lead at microsoft so he  founded this foundation and all basically all they   what they do is they they do research around  green software they're trying to come up with   open sort they're big on open source so like  products that businesses can use yeah integrate   into their apps and yeah just kind of lead that  way of thinking so i've learned a lot from them   that's really interesting it definitely  see it's definitely at that point where   it's uh companies are starting to recognize  how important this is and it's just going to   hopefully continue more and more in that direction  yeah i i think it has to it has to yeah it's not   even an option yeah um we we really need to  start considering our environmental impact in   everything not just software but everything  we do i know and it's so it's easy to do   when i say easy i mean like simple things such  as like you said turning off your monitor are   you does your office have a place to recycle  or to compost like those are very easy things   simple things to implement but for whatever  reason aren't in many companies or aren't   a lot of them it's interesting yeah yeah um  so i that would be my advice always is just   start start from the basics like start with  getting a good sorting system for your garbage   and then go from there exactly one one step before  another kind of switching gears a little bit here   i feel like we have quite a bit in common  with our our journeys just from uh when i i   i always struggle with this term non-traditional  because i think now there is no one way to get   into tech or really traditional anymore way  to get into tech or software development but   we both came from a boot camp and then  you know now being in the industry   a lot of times of course you're working with  people who went to school for computer science or   software engineering did you ever or do you ever  face imposter syndrome as far as hey i don't have   that that plaque or i don't have that experience  from the four years oh yeah absolutely um i think   it's gotten a lot better now at this point in  my life i've been at ibm i actually just reached   my three-year mark in in may and now i'm like you  know i deserve to be here i put the i put the work   in and no one's gonna tell me otherwise that's  my attitude but it took a while to get there   um so much imposter syndrome even just uh  yeah i i just there were so many moments   i think for the first two years that i was in  the industry just every day being like how am   i doing this like i'm a software developer now  yeah i'm an english major this isn't right like   you know i'm i'm building this feature in this  banking app that people are going to be using like   many people use yeah and a lot of that um i it  took yeah a lot of hits to my confidence a lot of   um trying to work through that that imposter  syndrome but i do i do think that everyone   needs to realize like especially boot camp grads  like boot camps are hard yeah it's hard to go from   a boot camp to getting a job it is um and the  fact that you did that you deserve to like you   did the work and you deserve to be where you are  so that's my that's my advice i totally agree and   for someone who's in that stage of of you  know you mentioned those emotions you had   you know a while ago what would you what is  some advice when they're like in the thick   of it like just feeling like they don't belong and  they're why are they here and someone's gonna find   them out or anything like that like what is some  advice to kind of carry through carry on yeah um   so i'll just i'll just go through things i did to  get me through and i also like on top of the upon   imposter syndrome i also have like you know mental  health issues as well like diagnose depression and   anxiety and so i and i know a lot of software  developers that go through the same thing so i   was also working through those barriers as well um  lots of voices in my head telling me i can't do it   and i shouldn't be here and i think ways that  um ways that i got through it i think the most   important was connecting with other developers  like you yeah my friend cincha yeah ibm yeah   like just being honest talking about it talking  to other developers also taking breaks stepping   away realizing you are not code that's not your  life like you have other things you know that add   value to your life um kind of remembering those  remembering the people that you're surrounded by   the hobbies that you have um and and sometimes  i would like do a fun project with a friend or   do some go on like a website and do some  javascript yeah do something fun with it   again yeah just do something fun um you know  answer questions that you know you can do yeah   boost your confidence i love that yes it's so true  for too long and it's something i'm still working   through it's not easy is not letting your code  define your worth and i really that's something   i really really struggled with and i still do to  some degree i'm working through it but if there's   something i can't solve or if there's something  i'm like oh this code is [ __ ] or whatever   it affects my entire day even after work hours and  it's it's not how it should be but to actually get   to that point where it doesn't is a whole other  whole other ball game and yeah i say i've been   in those positions so many times still still  to do every day and my biggest piece of advice   is just to walk away like get up get away from  your desk away from your computer shut it down   i know exactly exactly yeah yeah shut it down  i find um i'm always late to the game when it   comes to leaving the computer i was like i should  have done this so long ago like just walked away   yeah and honestly i i still to this day get  stuck on bugs get stuck on problems um you   know my code's not running what's going  on and i could easily just sit there for   10 hours straight freaking out yeah um but i've  noticed that if i just go do something else and i   come back to it it's almost like usually it clicks  like something you know it's like your brain just   needs a break for a second to get those muscles  uh healed and and come back to i totally agree and   on those moments where i'm still stuck i always  think okay you know being stuck on something for   10 hours or x amount of hours this isn't moving  the business or product forward and i'm here to do   that so just ask someone you know like oh yes yeah  um anyone especially at a place like ibm they'll   always say please just ask because you know  if you're sitting if you're stuck on a problem   silently suffering for two days and you don't  tell anybody you've kind of wasted everyone's   time and you can delay you know the product coming  out on time and it's like it's just so much more   efficient to just ask i know because it's usually  something so simple too that you're missing you're   like oh yeah that's it like a light bulb moment  then yeah i've had like i've had moments very   humbling moments um this was not ibm it was one of  the startups i worked at but just having a senior   developer who was in charge of me and he had  a computer science um degree from u of t and   both of us just completely stuck on the same  problem yeah and we were just like both googling   the exact same thing and it was just it was  so great to see that it was very equalizing   and i was very new to the industry as well so it  was great to see somebody and he had a masters of   computer science right like it was just nice  to see him type something into google that i   did the exact like i typed the exact  same thing exactly like everyone   gets stuck tech moves so quickly you  can't know everything it's impossible   if you try to it's just gonna yeah consume you  it's gonna consume you yeah i totally agree that's   one of my favorite things too i'm really happy  you you highlighted that story because it's such a   good story and it's so true that everyone is still  learning and growing and you're never going to   not use google or stack overflow or and if  you aren't using any of those tools you're   probably not building to something that's  challenging enough for you you know like   you should always be learning and growing and  using those so it's interesting to me i get   asked a lot of questions of how do you memorize  all the code or did you memorize out of like   google all i know is google like i just got better  at googling you have to know google yeah it's yeah   and it's not a shameful thing everybody does it  exactly speaking of stack overflow actually the   client i'm working with right now um we're using  microsoft teams and and uh their senior uh dev   lead created a channel called stack overflow  for us which i thought was really cool yeah   and you just share links of like different just  to ask questions he was like this is your uh   for the devs to ask questions and call it stack  overflow and yeah share links but it was nice to   just be like you know we're all on the same page  yeah we'll do the same thing exactly bring it all   back down to the same level i feel like i could  sit here and talk with you about this for hours   but to wrap it up what is some advice you would  give to your younger self ooh so much advice   it's hard to narrow down but i think if you  know just to keep with what we're talking about   the theme here is i would definitely tell  her to take some computer science courses   don't listen to the guidance counselors in high  school you know i'm not going to be apologetic   about that just don't like if they're telling  you something that has to do with you not being   capable just ignore them because it's just you  know i just learned this but our frontal lobes   are developing until you're 25. so what you know  in high school is not what you're gonna know four   years later just if something if you're interested  in something just do it like you can do it um yeah   i would definitely tell her to ignore that advice  about not taking technical subjects and just do it   that's amazing advice i totally agree danny thank  you so much for taking time to sit down and chat   with me today ah thanks for having me tiffany this  was so fun it was fun and i just always feel so   inspired hearing your story and and uh connecting  with you ah you too though thank you thank you

Channel: Tiff In Tech

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Id: IaSD7K6LXZo

Length: 27min 38sec (1658 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 12 2022