How To Become An SAS Soldier with Lindsay Bruce

hello and welcome to the progress Theory where we look to implement scientific principles for optimizing Human Performance I am Dr Phil price and on today's episode we are joined by xas and now the founder of the modern Warrior Project Lindsay Bruce now I've always wondered what it takes to get into the sees what does it take to be the 0.1% of the 0.1% you hear on social media all this about discipline leadership being a fast learner but you can be a fast learner and a disciplined leader but still not make scas selection is it all about the physical or is it all about having the right mindset and also can we actually learn these physical attributes and these mental skills and actually start to apply them in our everyday lives outside of the military as always follow And subscribe to the progress theory on Instagram YouTube and you can check all of our content out there here is Lindsay Bruce Lindsay how are we thank you so much for coming on the progress Theory pleasure to be here M thanks for having me yeah really been looking forward to this uh episode because stuff regarding the sces seems to be getting really really popular and it has for a number of years now um it used to be this uh profession which was kind of shrouded in a bit of mystery but everyone kind of appreciated what they did but now people having a bit more of an understanding of the qualities of the people that were involved in the SNS both physical and mental and I think people want to know a bit more because they appreciate if they actually leared a little bit of that and applied it in their own setting like in civilian life in their own jobs whatever it might be you know that's really going to take them to the next level so I really wanted to speak to you as someone that was selected for the SCS and had a established career in it to actually truly understand what exactly it takes to be the elite of the elite yeah I mean what you just just to allude to what you said a minute ago about the popularity of the the whole scene of the Special Forces not just UK but worldwide I would say especially when you're linking that from TV to social media and obviously recent years popularity with the TV shows that is just grown arms and legs obviously you know which just you know going back to before before all this happened you had the odd thing that would maybe come out that would be uh you know popular in TV but it didn't really go to that level of popularity and I think social media is obviously helped catapult that into the you know another Stratosphere really um which is which has got it's got positives and negatives along with that so uh I mean when when I was growing up and and the whole mistake around the SS was a thing for me because no one really knew anything about it even even in the military I remember being back in my old unit because we didn't we didn't actually have anyone who had who had gone to the SAS since the late '70s so I was essentially the Trailblazer in that sense that then opened the doors for a few more to come afterwards there still wasn't that many but at the time when I when I applied for the SCS the big attraction for me was because no one really knew anything about it there was this whole sense of mystery and mistake around the whole thing which I thought was pretty cool and and that's what everyone thought it was the unknown right venturing into the unknown so no one knew what to expect I didn't know what to expect I didn't know what it was going to entail there was none of these things that exist these days so company I work for I worked for at the weekend they run the the fance event up in the Breck and beacons and they also do like mock events so that someone that's in the military who wants to potentially go and do SAS selection Special Forces selection they can go and have a bit of a trial run and it's kind of like a like a recreation of of the event because the roots are the same the times are the same the weights are the same so they can almost like do a bit of a noisy rehe before they go on so it's a good taster which is which is great right um but then going back to Circ 2015 uh when uh the the popular TV show first came out um since that it's just it's gone it's gone like that you know and everybody wants to have a bit of this every wants to experience a piece of what what happened now the confusion I always emphasize with that is it's a TV show it's nothing that represents SCS selection purely just a physically physically and mentally based uh fairly arduous test for civilians to go and do right and it's very very short and chronological time frame you it's days as opposed to months yeah it's like two weeks isn't it the TV program but couple of weeks yeah I mean it's a drop in the ocean it's a it's a tast it's a it's a little test you know but that is it that is really it it's like it's like a taste of a it's a taste of a chicken cor versus eating a whole V everyone can understand that everyone has tasted the different levels of hotness when it comes to Curry yeah absolutely so could you explain to me how you could potentially apply for the SCS so I'm assuming you know me I'm not in the armed forces so I can't just go right I'm going to go straight for SS selection I'm sure I've got to work my way up to a certain point to prove that I could potentially even be considered for selection and and they they have I mean I'm going to go off what I experienced because in all honesty the way it works these days I'm not entirely sure I'm not privy to all the details of how the selection process the application process works for that got a rough idea but I don't think it's changed that much there have been there have been some screws tightened as far as the you know the procedure to apply it's actually harder I think to get to day one in selection these days before I join so so I I I applied in 99 um and at that time at that point you had to do what they called a briefing course the briefing course was like a pre-selection it was a test before you could go in selection essentially now before they implemented this briefing course way back before my time they didn't have that so you could essentially just rock up and start selection now the problem with that logistically was you had a lot of people who are completely out of their debth who just wanted to turn up to say you know having a resume that they gone for selection once so they they tried for the SAS but really the reality is that they turned up in day one and and didn't get past the first day you know they turned up ahead of a train station or whatever you know turned up at s's training camp and then said yeah it was on selection but you know the intention was never to pass it was always just to say that turned up and you know yeah so so then what happened so you had you had to yeah so you had to essentially pass the briefing course and then be accepted on selection so that's that's what I had to do it was like a three three-day event uh whereby you could you turn up the head oford and they put you through a bunch of tests H it was really difficult actually you know they do a lot of theory tests military Theory tests followed by a lot of physical tests in the gym uh out in the training area um you know tabing with weight on your back and it was all back toback stuff I always remember it was pretty pretty cheeky little test and but but it separates the weat from the chaff it gets rid of the people who are non-starters and then you get some of the some of the guys that go on it it would be a case of you know you're not ready yet but you got potential maybe come back next year do this course again and then we'll reassess you and then you get the you get the ones who are ready to go so thankfully I was I was in the third category of you're good to go now in fact I remember when I when I um when I H did my briefing course and at the end of I had actually um I had wanted to go on in the July which was like seven months 78 months later so I thought to myself right I've got 7 months to prepare for this and they says no we'll see you in January I was like what I'll see you in January you're good to go you're ready to go now and I was like [ __ ] and it all came it came it came forward you know pretty quickly and I had to had to had to sort of get my [ __ ] together really um but yeah so that was that was how you applied and at the time going back from that you had to be you had to have served like 3 years military service before you could apply H and any one can apply but there can be a few roadblocks in the way from from your your your parent unit so the regiment you're serving in at the time they can they can suggest you you don't but you know they can hold you back and they can try and put things in your way but thankfully when I went I I had a lot of support so the the Head Shed that were that were sort of in charge of me at the time they were nothing but support of they said y on you go unless some my my my company Commander at the time my My OC he he let me go go home and train for like 7 8 weeks before selection started he let me go and he said just go home and train for it and you know fully supported me which was you know forever grateful for obiously what was the separator then when you actually got to sa selection and um what set you do you think above those that left within I say two weeks so I've read a number of accounts from people that talk about their SCS selection and they quite often refer to the people that often leave early are the ones that are going quite confident they think they're really physically capable to do it but all of a sudden two weeks later they've um they've chopped it they've gone no this isn't for me whatever it might be injury or they just maybe they just couldn't hack it it was complete surprise to them um but in terms of like qualities now this could be physical this could be mental but what do you think separates those that make it to the end of selection versus those that don't especially in the the first two weeks you know when you're getting rid of the the early chaff I just think the guys who who the guys who see it through and get to the end and pass they're just cut from a different cloth and I'm going to say that really boldly and say there's something about them it's just different and it comes down to a few factors one major factor is that you have to really want it cuz no one's going to find it easy there's always going to be something that will be the the ailles hill someone who might find the hills fairly doable so you get some very very fit big strapp and strong lads who can just tab all day every day and they never seem to tire and they do find it easier than the next guy I I knew people like that there were people on the Hill's face who although it was hard they never they never found it to the point where they were at at an absolute limit so they found it maybe easier than the next guy I found it really really hard I was at my limit with that I had to push myself to get through the hills phase I find it really [ __ ] hard so then you get the guys who don't find that as hard then you get to the jungle and the guys who maybe found that fairly you know doable should we say crumble crumble in a jungle coining that one but um they do they just they just seem to to find their their weakness it's like the Kryptonite you know the trees becomes a Kryptonite they can't operate because there's very different environments and it's it's uh you know when you look at the hill phas of selection it's called aptitude for a reason it's an aptitude to see if you've got the minerals to go forward and do the real selection that's just the start so it's a physical it's a physical and mental test obviously and and I would say a huge proportion of that is is is mental to get through because it's easy to get out of it you can volunt withdraw yourself anytime you like you can get to any checkpoint and say that's me I'm done I don't want to go any further the voluntary withdraw and no one argues with you they don't try and convince you to stay on no one tries to convince you to to stay come on you know another day it's like as soon as you say those words you're done you're off very different to the show and I remember the ex I remember the first season of the show they were like right you're VW right you're gone whereas now they sort of talk them into it a little bit more stain you sure you really want to do this I imagine that blly doesn't happen in selection the reason to do that you think about this in real terms so if you have an S uh selection candidate a candidate for special force of selection and they say those words that they they are they are literally given up on themselves on the course then operationally if you are somewhere in the world where you don't have that option to just say that's me I'm going home now but you someone's got that given up mentality if that if that mentality is within in there of they they're someone who will give up then when when are they going to do that when when it really matters that that's why that's why that's there um and I think it's a really important factor and that's why the numbers have always been H you know proportionately to to you know when it comes to the ratio of pass rate versus who turns up in day one it's very it's a very small percentile of people who get to the end and get badged and I think it's great that you you just came out and said they cut they're Cut From a Different Cloth because I've been really thinking about this with Elite athletes a lot recently if you look at a number of I guess social media accounts where they talk about the qualities that Elite athletes have uh they talk about you know like the discipline they talk about the openness to change all of these key things but they're all very nice and I just think there's there's a level of grit they're Cut From a Different Cloth which separates them out which doesn't necessarily mean that um you know those things are NE the qualities are necessarily favorable so say for example with an elite athlete you've got to have a certain level of selfishness because you've got to have to say no to so many things so you can concentrate on that one goal now that's when people say the word selfish they think oh that's really negative well in the case of being the best of the best it's not negative it's necessary and it takes a real yeah level you know a certain personality to have a maybe even a lack of empathy to say no I you know I don't care I need to do this and that's just one element but I I completely agree there's so I think it's John carak the author he talks about it's always The Crazy Ones you know that you need that level above or you see The World Slightly differently compared to everyone else to be able to do things that no one else is willing to do I mean I've read the stories of the you know how the SCS was first formed with I can't remember the names but there was a particular Irishman who was uh particularly crazy and he had was a pacle boxer he got like caps for the Lions and the 1938 South African Tour like this guy just was A Cut Above everyone else because he just would was willing to go to places that no one else was going to and you need to be Cut From a Different Cloth to be able to do that and uh I think a lot of people yeah want to think that they are that but I you know if that was the case then the 0.1% of the 0.1% of the 0.1% it would be such a small margin there'll be loads of people like it so yeah I think it's great to to hear you say that it's like a good strong honesty it's like you might have it well you might not are you cut from a different cloth and what happens and how is that cloth cut where where do it cut from I me you look at the backgrounds if you if you track back into the backgrounds of most of these most of the guys that do this they're usually from very similar backgrounds and that is usually you know when you look at where where does it where does a special forces where do the special forces recruit from so most of the SAS come from either the parachute r or other infantry units it's but they're all Frontline infantry soldiers which is a cutting edge of the of the of the army right there the guys at the the pointy end and where do they come from well the people who join the Infantry are usually from non-privileged backgrounds so they're from Council Estates of rough areas a lot of people back in the day who was it I was I was talking to the other day uh I was talking to someone the other day who was who was telling me a story about an old school regiment guy I forget which one it was so it will come back to me but he was pretty much going to go to prison it was going to be jail or the Army and a lot there's a lot of that back then there was a lot of guys who just did it because they had nothing else to do or they were looking at a life of crime if they didn't do something otherwise and focused on something more positive so a lot of it was a bit of a bit of a um bit of a rescue um situation for for young Lads back in the day so you look at guys who've come from Life a life of crime or a life of you grown up in a council estate a rough area and then th those guys are the ones who have had to they've had to grow up with a certain level of resilience anyway so the chances are they a lot of them get left defend for themselves when they were kids H they saw some [ __ ] when they were young and they they've almost been preconditioned to deal with crap you know and and so that's like the trajectory that's the typical trajectory of of an SCS Soldier so when you look at what what the what the final product of that is or the ongoing product you would say from someone passing selection onwards you you just get this this character who has never had a life of comfort they've always had to deal with some level of [ __ ] through their lives so and that builds layers that builds layers of resilience that you don't even appreciate or know about at the time but you have it and then when it comes to those who start versus those who finish then it's just it's going through that that that rinsing process you're rinsing it out all the time until you're left with the left with the gold at the end you know yeah if if we link that back to what we said earlier around the ability to tolerate stress over a really long period of time like if you had quite a privileged upbringing you would have thought that your resilience to that stress is probably a little bit lower purely because of the type of upbringing that you've you've had whereas I guess a non-privileged background if you are constantly having to fend for yourself you know your ability to take on hardship is going to be a lot better purely because you're a lot more you've had regular exposure to it throughout your life I think I mean I know I keep linking this back to Elite athletes but I think uh I think that's a good link because you know we're talking about the elite the elite elite just because the SCS isn't necessarily a sport it's still the the top end uh and there is research out there that quite or most of the time with Elite athletes they would have gone through some form of hardship within their are within that their family or within their close Community which has enabled them a certain level of Drive resilience which has helped them with their training helped them with their focus to get towards a particular goal um which is which is weird when you talk about the determinants cuz sometimes if you just get I don't know a 16-year-old wherever they're from and you ask they ask like what do I need to get into the SAS like they don't necessarily have the most control out of the upbringing so it's like well like you know what was your upbringing like you didn't come from the non-privileged background might struggle like uh you know it's quite an interesting quality or determinant to think about okay so here so here's here's another way to think about this right because this this is the other thing I always think about with this so in in the in the military and let's let's talk about selection you have you have two Cate categories right so you have other ranks and you have officers so officers don't come from the same background right so so you could say well why do so many why do do a a handful of those get through on selection as well cuz they need officers as much as they need soldiers uh you know other ranks but I was going to just say this when it comes to competitive athletes from certain disciplines or when it comes to officers commissioned officers in the military commissioned officers you know often come from privileged backgrounds right very wealthy families sometimes uh so so the difference I think if you look if you if you look at you look at um Olympic Roars Olympic Roars don't usually come from [ __ ] hole backgrounds right they usually come from good backgrounds they've got to Roar club and stuff and they're young so sometimes go to private school so you could say well same kind of kind of deal with that you know they come from good upbringings good environments you know wealthy environments sometimes so with that then it just it's a human thing it just comes down to some people just have that extra extra extra gravy that others don't so when comes to those who make the Olympics on on a team those who make an individual sport discipline at the highest level World Championship it just comes down to personal drive and grit and determination and and the purpose of doing what they're doing I think there a huge a huge link to that is is having such a strong purpose to have that to have that Accolade or it's not necessarily an Accolade in the special force you don't do it for the the prize at the end it's was really about the the you know being in that environment and doing that job but there something about every man who gets through that who just has an extra level of grit drive and determination then the next than the next guy as simple as that really it's just the reason to say that about the the the unprivileged backgrounds typically being that's typically where that would come from where guys from their regiment they would usually come from the Infantry which come from you know Council Estates you know that's just a law of averages but again there are people from those backgrounds who who would never even scratch the surface with you know SAS selection just because you come from a c State doesn't make it hard as nails or have the attitude to do special force of selection I'm not saying that but that's just typically the background that that they recruit from you look at boxers look at MMA fighters look at boxers most World Championship boxers don't come from P backgrounds they've got a huge reason to you know like when you see a championship level boxer who comes from nothing and to to get to the top like The Hungry Wolf climbing the hill to get to the top there's there's such massive purpose behind getting to that point getting to the top of the hill getting that world championship level built that's when the big money comes in look at somebody like Conor McGregor you'll give up everything he had to then solely focus on his martial arts career to then become a UFC fighter and make make make his life that way um you know there was huge drive and a lot of reason to get there but then once they get there and all the other stuff comes like the the millions and the and you know in the fame and all that then all of a sudden you see this typical trajectory of The Hunger starts to go and that's when they that's when they become vulnerable and weak to Hungry wolves climbing the hill you know was that saying again the H the wolf climbing the hill is hungrier than the wolf top of the hill whatever it is yeah I believe that as well so I think aside from what what does it take I think in anything in life not just special force of selection or or or Athletics or sport I think if if you've got a huge purpose and driving a reason why you're getting up in the morning doing what you're doing that's that's the thing that's going to keep driving you forward even if you don't want to do it and this must be why mindset has you know exploded in terms of people want to know more about mindset how can I develop my mindset uh to really uh take me to the next level cuz they realize that you know over time I can develop myself physically but there's always that level of mindset which could take me that last 10% which could you know get me Nearer My Ceiling whether this person's cut from this you know different cloth or not you know they can still have some level of resiliency some some level of Drive some level of purpose um which will improve them in whatever area that they want to develop in but I guess that's where people want to know more about the mindset from the from the SS because they feel like actually I can improve to hear but knowing maybe a little bit more about the mindset of the those in the SCS might just get me nearer to where that that level is um yeah whether they cut from the same cloth can I get as close to that cloth as as possible it's I would say it comes down to exposure in anything whether it's cold water therapy whether it's heat therapy whether it's running a marathon long distance endur endurance running uh whatever it is that you want to do that if there's anything that needs a strong mindset for in particular you know you need to do the thing there's a lot of there's a lot of people out there who will H read all the SS books and wear through dark clothing but they won't ever put a park in their back and walk up a hill or when they do they hanging out their ass within 10 minutes um so so it it really is about you know if you want to develop and you know this Phil if you want to develop a strong mindset you need to build it it's like a muscle you need to build you don't you're not born with everything you need you have to work on everything everything so the more you expose yourself to hard stuff each time you get to the end of something you then build another layer of resilience you you've now got evidential proof that's that's now in the past that you can do something and that's now that's now your standard moving forward there was a there was a a girl the other day who did the the fandance event and she you know I was really impressed with her because she she was at the turnar around she was at the halfway point she was at the halfway point waited as well she was at the halfway point 26y old girl uh went and did this event by herself she got to the the halfway point and she she was suffering really badly with cramp now you you will have had cramp as much as as I have and the next guy has we've all had cramp for into anything physical Revol being cramp and it's really uncomfortable right and and it's debilitating to a point where if you if you can't sort it there and then it can it can literally just stop you in your tracks and it can be quite a scary thing to happen especially if you're out on a mountain somewhere um so this girl was suffering badly with CR but give her a little bit of advice and help if you got you know you got some electrolytes with you get it down you you know keep moving anyway and then went back to the the Finish point and and I watched her come in h and she was you know she was in a really bad way you could tell that she was in a lot of pain and and at the end she she just kept on saying I can't believe I've done it you know I can't believe I finished it I was like well look it says the thing is I said you you've come and done this today I say you didn't really know what to expect you had half an idea but now you know what to expect you know what it what it's taken I say and now you're you're that per that that percentage more resilient you've just built another layer of resilience to your your character today by doing this you've now have evidential proof that you can do this I said and you know how how much you had to push to get through that you've now discovered something else about your personality so it's it's always it's like a new level you you Mark and you know moving forward you go right I I can do that I've done that before I know I can do something like that again I know I know I can deal with pain and everyone's got their ways that they deal with that everyone's got different ways that they they they they accommodate that and deal with it at the time you know whatever method that is that you use I used to always use the one foot in front of the other you know pick a point M go to that point and then don't think about anything else then get to that point think about the next Point whatever it is it works for you right but you learn a lot about yourself and you do hard [ __ ] and you've done lots of Hard [ __ ] in your life and when you do that you always find something out for yourself Chase hard [ __ ] yeah Chase different types of hard [ __ ] and then uh that will give you a well-rounded level of resilience um for someone that's looking to go down the route possibly going for selection so with your example you with a mate you went out and did some of the the the courses and the Breck and beacons got pack on so you at least had some experience developing or experiencing the hardness of those types of events before you had to do it in selection so when it comes to slightly more mental things like I know there's a part of selection where you get interrogated there are stress positions yeah would you recommend for that person to like you know maybe practice spending a long time in stress positions practice having the noise that they they pump into your headphones to keep you up all night is is that like a level of hard that someone should maybe Chase just to give them some exposure to that before doing selection in all honesty no things like that you've either you've either got it you honestly think you've either got it or you've not you can prepare yourself physically when it comes to something like that that's the test you're going to find out if you if you're the kind of person who can deal with this [ __ ] or not because it's not something i' personally want to practice it's not something I would recommend someone tries to you know simulate or inoculate themselves with it it's just something that I would say just deal with it at the time just and and it's how you deal with at the time that gets you through it because if the chances are you can't if you can if you can't really if you're never going to enjoy it and and the thing is you can't always replicate the situation as is so you can Spar when you getting ready for a boxing match but you're not it's not the same as having a full on fight you know it's not this it's not quite the same you don't have every element there you don't have a crowd you don't have you know um full you know you do you can Spar obviously you do full span and boxing training but you don't have every single element to simulate that that exact experience with all the pressure that's around you stuff so so when it comes to something like interrogation or uh staying in stress positions for a long time and listening to White Noise uh I think that's the kind of thing you you want to do that once hopefully you want to just do it once and then you just got to get on with it at the time and and that's when you got to find you know you got to find what is is is driving you you've got to think how how are you going to cope with this cuz you kind of know on on on the selection course you know it's not real right so so people have said things like oh yeah apparently like you get into interrogation and your head goes and you you get that confused that you you can't tell if it's real or not you [ __ ] know it's a training exercise right it's a course for God's sake you know in your heart of hearts it's just a course that's why I always told myself it's just this is just a course no one's going to kill me yeah I'm going to be in a pain I'm going to be cold going to be wet I'm going to be hungry I'm going to be really [ __ ] sore uh but it's just it's just something I have to deal with for a period of time and I kind of know roughly what that time is because you know it's going to be 36 hours and on regular selection you're you're you're in captivity for 36 hours in stress positions or interrogated interrogation was the break that was the thing I used to always think to myself of you get allow to go to the toilet you can put you can raise your hand you can go to the toilet you get taken to the toilet um or you get interrogated and and you you're interrogated every few hours you know for 36 hours it is it is very very taxing on the on the mind you you you you don't sleep you can't sleep you have maybe a minute of sleep now and then in a stress position uh but you certainly don't sleep you're catching little bits of of very light sleep intermittently uh you're dazed you're confused you're you hallucinate you hear things I always remember when I was hearing White for that you know it's like an illusion when you when you hear solid white noise your it's like your mind starts to uh find a way of dealing with that so I always remember when I was when I was in the interrogation phase in selection and I was in stress positions and I was the white noise is constant uh I started to hear trans music through the White Noise I always remember that it was like trans Tunes late 90s early 2000s trans music I remember I start to hear trans tracks and I thought someone was playing music I all play music for us and it was all in my head because you get debriefed at the end and you ask all these questions and you they say did you hear anything the right noise it's a common thing and I told them that like okay that's interesting but you you find a way to deal with it yeah it's me it's a mechanism it's interesting that your your brain automatically does that it's almost like trying to find a way of making something yeah less stressful yeah I mean surely the the brain the human tissue is always trying to find ways of making things less stressful for the body isn't it so it's interesting when it's put under such stress like that it's it can come up with things that and that was quite late on as well that was probably two-thirds of the way through that started to happen like probably the the last sort of like 10 hours or something like that it's I started to hear that it's like a cofen mechanism because when you know something's towards the end as well and and the other thing as well when it was getting more difficult when they were putting more [ __ ] on you uh I had this inclination that is got to be near the end like at one point they they take you outside and they they you know they use like Snap ties like plastic cuffs uh and they they secure you to a like a wooden pallet outside and they they they H you down with freezing cold water and you don't know when they're going to stop and it was like [ __ ] it's Baltic um but I always remember at that point I thought surely they're not going to keep us here for much longer you know this is this is like yeah everyone's in bits at this point you know it's been a long you've been in the run for 5 days before that as well so you're hungry anyway with with your selection but how many people entered that interrogation phase and how many people came out yeah there there are three so there are there are several phases of selection it's six months in its entirety so you have like the hills you have pre- jungle training you have jungle uh school um you have uh like observation post phase you have um escaping evasion and interrogation that's a couple of weeks um and you know from day day one selection I think there was probably like I think it was like 250 to 280 people day one selection and at the end there was there was um I think there was like 23 actually quite a high pass rate that was including officers that was SBS SAS other ranks and officers so I think there was like maybe 18 I think something I think 18 of his past um but before that you you lose most people most people are are lost in the Hills face cuz they're trying to that first filter process of you know get and these are all guys who've passed the briefing course so that you got a certain level but then week one is usually you they lose the the most people in week one on the fan dance there's a lot uh that don't don't get through that because it's a very fast time you have to achieve on on that that March uh and then I think there was something like 50 went to the Jungle quite a lot withdrew and then some failed quite a lot failed H at the end of that phase and I think by the time we went on to combat and survival was was probably like 20 odd you know 20 odd people left and then from that there was I think there was only a couple failed actually again it's not it's not a high failure rate on that you got a lot of you think about the the man that goes into that phase has gone through a lot of stuff to start with you know he's gone through more than half half a selection at that point you're like almost two-thirds of the way through so you you get a very capable man you know decent Soldier who's had to prove himself through the jungle and all the rest of it to go and come back survival and it's still hard but it's it's like the last major hurdle to get three on selection I would say the rest of it after that is kind of a bit of a given you know you're expected to pass um the jungle is obviously the hard the hardest phase the first thing that comes to my mind is like I think the jungle phase would be the hardest for me I I don't want to be one of those people that you know think that yeah I reckon I could do it uh because I just I just don't know but if I had to pick a particular phase out of all of them which I think I struggle most with it would be jungle remember you when you when you we up the difference between something like aptitude which is the hills phase versus the jungle it's very very different in this assessment so you're not really assessed as such on on the Hills space you're just expected to get from A to B and and if you keep your head down and just turn up you show up with the right equipment with the right weight in your back and you start and you finish and in the time you pass as long as you don't do anything on toward you're not being assessed on how you are as a soldier unless you're doing something completely obscure like turn up with you know your kits and shits there or something they're going to they're always going to point out you can't map bre you can't navigate you can't map bre or navigate you won't pass anyway because you won't get through test week so if you can get through test week you can you can navigate you can tab you can carry the weight you can follow instruction that is all it's designed to do is to get the man who is who has the physical aptitude to do hard stuff then when you go to the Jungle that's when it really starts so so the jungle phase is all about how how do you perform as a soldier how do you operate what what are your skills like and that's the hardest part of the Jungle phrase is that you have to be highly skilled and it's not like you have to learn all this this new stuff and be highly skilled at everything but you have to have an extremely high standard of basic soldiering skills that's the difference and you need to maintain those for a l period of time and that's what they're looking at so things like life firing what your drills how slick are your drills when you're in a contact and how how quickly can you work as you know individually as a part of a team to uh to go through the drills and be very very slick at those drills and be safe and be uh be a good operator you know and it's little things like strip down your weapon show me a weapon first thing in the morning if you not clean your weapon it's a mark you know if you've not put cam cream on your face and enough that's a mark and they're always marking things off if you leave your pouch open it's a it's a black mark if you leave something behind in the harbor area after you after you get you get ready in the morning and you bug out of the harbor to go your first move the DS will go in assess the area if they find something like [ __ ] tissue paper or a sweet wrapper who the [ __ ] is this right H and they want to know and then if you leave something behind that's a big it's a big big no no so it's these types of things and when when you're tired when you're under pressure when you when you are nervous essentially about you know how you're doing on the course because these guys that assess you are [ __ ] the experienced scas soldiers or special force of soldiers coming from the S SPS and SAS they're experienced special force of soldiers who have been through that they served several years in the saber Squadron they've been operational multiple times they they've they've got the [ __ ] together and they know what they're looking for your assist at a very high level so that's that's the difficulty with the jungle is it's not necessarily down to you you can do your absolute best which is really the most important part if you do your absolute best you don't get in you just went good enough you went what they're looking for but when you get to the end of that you're then being you're being judged essentially on your abilities as a soldier and that's the part that's out your control it you just have to hope that you're good enough yeah in terms of phys physical I know we talked a lot about how quite often at the beginning of selection you you'd have a load of people that were really really physic physically fit do really well on the hill phase etc etc um so if I if you had to sort of list key qualities that a soldier would physically need to reach that highest level of the SAS what do you think they would be when it comes to the physical side of things there are people who have passed selection for a long long time now if you don't necessarily you'll have a a a a multifaced approach to Fitness most of the guys back when I did selection you know some of the guys didn't see the inside of a gym they just got a burger in the back and just they were good at they were good at tabing the Burger in the back and essentially that's all you need to be able to to do really is to be able to put a pack in your back and keep it on your back for a long time and cover a long a long expansive terrain uh over a rough terrain you know and and not not sort of uh not sort of give up um so there wasn't really any need for I mean back then there wasn't the advances that we have these days in Fitness where everyone's doing CrossFit or something similar and you know and they've got a very multifaceted approach to conditioning but it goes without saying had had that knowledge and and uh the existence of the common existence existence would say of of how everyone these days wants to be fit you know young l these days are in the gym you know when I was when I was in the Army right in my younger years we would go home and leave and would' be in the pub nowadays young Lads are going to the gym they're making that a huge part of their lives and I don't think it's changed the way that people perform on selection because it's still the same tests um but I would say that they approach to it these days not just on the selection phase but in the regimental phase which have been priv to the you know what goes on inside there as far as the physical elements of each Soldier um goes and there's a lot more emphasis being put now on Health Fitness uh conditioning you know recovery all these things have been really adhered to these days which is a great thing and But to answer your question if I was going to prepare someone for that process for example then there is so much you can do physically then the rest of it is down to their mindset and how resilient they are and what goes on upstairs that's the biggest part it always will be but if I was going to you know make all things equal and say right what could we physically do to make this person as capable as possible it would be a combination of all things so there would be you know uh there would be a lot of um heal Fitness there' be a lot of getting a pack in your back and and covering a lot of distance and terrain over the hills uh I would add in a lot of swimming uh weight training you know conditioning program that that you and I would likely prescribe to a client uh you know with with with a combination of you know um strength training conditioning a lot of dynamic work there'd be it'd be a bunch of everything but it the emphasis would be on um overall balance of of a training program so you're you're working the whole body rather than just you know concentrating one thing I wouldn't say that there's any need to get big or muscular nothing like that I'd say that's maybe a disadvantage H I would say most of it has come down to endurance work uh and doing basic strength work that's what I would recommend that's really interesting not doing too fast yeah yeah nothing too fancy really interesting to hear you say that because you can imagine that right we need to get you physically prepared for this we need to get your strength to this Level Fitness to this level and they'll have these sort of test measures which they might use but sometimes I feel that people might do a load of that but then start losing sight of the main key thing that's going to make them good which is what you described their ability to put a Burgen on their back and to cover large distances over a long period of time so it's all about being able to tolerate that rather than like oh what's your mile time so you you could have a good mile time you could have a bad mile time it you know it will depend on your ability to tolerate stress over a long period of time um so yeah I can imagine people sort of over complicating things and they have this image of this like big Burly Soldier you know he's the Pinnacle of Fitness he'll be able to last forever and it's like well no like you said size may actually be a disadvantage because one you need to carry that weight over a long period of time on top of the weight of your Burgen that might actually be a big disadvantage it's almost like being be as light as possible but strong enough and have a good level of Tolerance in like tissues muscle bone tendon Etc to last a long period of time so yeah the idea of what um this perfect Soldier might look like might actually surprise the sort of average viewer um especially when they see like SS who does wins because I don't know uh and yeah Jason Fox they're all big guys you know they all look pretty big in a black top yeah but you look at like you look at some like Jason Fox he's most people don't look like that he's he's an exception I would say as far as he's just a very well-built guy he's in great shape H he's probably always kept himself in good shape but he's probably genetically quite quite lucky as well I would say you get you get the outliers who are just like even if he didn't train he probably still look pretty decent uh but he does train so he looks he looks really good you know so he's got a real real good good good physique on him H then you get other guy look at Billy me I know Billy and Billy was always quite a slight built guy H but you know he's more of more of a boxer more of more of a sort of endurance kind of build H not not get massive muscles or anything like that but but it's about it's not having like a one siiz fit all approach and everyone looks like universal Soldier you get very a very diverse uh of people so you get I remember there I remember there were there were guys when I joined the regiment who I would look at and go [ __ ] hell how that F to get into the regimen you they look like just big chunky guys they like overweight in some cases but they're just like just big bears of men who can put a beer in the back and keep going and never falter they're never going to be able to have a good mile time in the Run they're never going to be they're not designed for running but let's face it how often do you really need to run fast in a contact and stuff short bursts but you know you don't really ever have to you know go and run a mile and a half and and and do it fast it's not really doesn't really come into the the category of what you need to do in your typical day as a soldier so there are there are there are different things that people are strong and weak at and I think it's getting the guy who can be pretty good at most things so guy who can run enough but not necessarily be a more far style Runner someone who can put a burger in the back H but not someone who needs to [ __ ] be able to lift you know 250 kilos off the floor um so so it really is there are many you know the regental soldier comes in many guys as you know they're all they're all built and look differently uh but I would say these days there's a lot more adoration to the the physical side of things as far as overall conditioning or properly training for for yeah to to be that rounded you know and it's not just that I think a big part of of the modern day Soldier now is that the likelihood of because they approach things differently now there's a high likelihood bar you know bar injury is that they'll they'll last longer in life as in they'll be healthier for longer because back in the days of you know back in the old days of the typical regimental Soldier whereby they just stick a be on the back and they tab but they would never train they would never do Fitness they would get on the piss they would eat what they wanted but they do the job but it was never about it was never really about the the the rounded approach to physical fitness or nutrition or anything like that there was no supplements in any that sh so if you look at TH that era and and how that era ended up moving on to later stages of Life a lot of them were like packs of broken biscuits physically later on in life because they didn't look after themselves and obviously you and I both know that a huge part of looking after yourself is nutrition hydration supplementation getting enough getting good sleep now looking at all the things that that that help us perform better and optimize our health these things are only really coming to the Forefront now for the majority of people for the for the open market whereas beforehand for for years before it was only athletes that did that type of stuff you know even so even special force soldiers didn't do it you know so so this is this is all part of the evolution of the Modern Man obviously but you know certainly things have changed yeah well speak you can have things changing and things becoming more open to the rest of society you've obviously got the modern Warrior Project um do you want to talk a little bit more about that because you're obviously teaching skills and physical training for people I guess outside of the military and how they can utilize these skills to make them better in whatever field that they're in so you want to talk a little bit more about that and how you you know like the success stories of how you're seeing these skills being put into place and the success stories from it you know when it comes to purpose when it comes to doing what you're doing in life and knowing that you're doing the right thing you'll have the same F you know doing what you do um there there was a period of time in my life where I wasn't really sure I was doing the right thing you know because when I was in the military I joined the military at a young age I knew I was doing the right thing I felt like I was in the right place having a great time I joined the SCS again that followed on that carried over and and I felt like I was I was living my best life and I loved my time in the regiment when I left the regiment and and I I knew that there was there was something just underline that that was telling me that something else out there was was calling me and something else that was different to what I was doing now had to be done so I almost had this knowing that it was time to leave for whatever reason it was and it didn't come overnight But as time went on I just started to get this feeling that this is the end of this chapter I need to do something else and I think for me it was about gaining back control of my life cuz when you're institutionalized and you're controlled by the military you are controlled your life is dictated by the profession that you're part of so you're told what to do when you're doing it not in a not in a boot camp style sense I'm talking about you know working away getting called away to operations you're on call constantly it's it's um you know it's it's a lot of pressure on on your life if you got family and stuff as well it becomes even more so so I I guess I I had a bit of foresight with that think forward going right in 5 years time if I've got kids and I'm married you know the people who have gone before me how does their lives look and I would hear things like you know guys grown up and so guys guys with kids kids grown up and they've never really seen their kids I got this this this feeling that I just I wasn't really going to be completely happy moving forward with it I thought I want to build a family and you know I want to get control of my life I need to I need to leave so when I left and and and I you know into security work for a bit then I then I opened my first gym I end up having like a couple of gyms over the space of 15 years uh recently 18 months ago um you know that was the end of my gym career uh and then I went on onto what I'm doing now which is which is coaching men over 40 on the modern Warrior Project now when it comes to purpose when it comes to feeling that you're doing the right thing in life I went through this period where I just wasn't quite sure what I should be doing so there was a lot of uncertainty as far as you know the question you asked yourself what am I really doing the right you know I kind of like what I'm doing some of some of the things that I'm doing I enjoy but really is it really serving me in my life to the point where I think that I'm in the right place doing the right thing and and the reality was that I wasn't and I used things like like competitive bodybuilding going going back years before that you know I loved bodybuilding but I think it was it was it was it was filling a void it was doing something I love to do but it was that was very personal it was very much pushing myself uh physically and mentally to do something like a discipline of bodybuilding that was replacing the discipline of something I'd had before so I I don't think I was really in the right space for a long time then lockdown happened and I started going into a bit of online coaching for most people lockdown was a bit of a a chance to step back and have a look at your life and ask yourself the right questions so for me I I I sort of got the wide angle lens on and and and thought about things I realized that I I liked working with guys who I could really relate to who could relate to me who I could connect with who who could who I was resonating with essentially more than anybody and a lot of that came through feedback from places like Instagram there was there was there were there were there were common denominators there um so at the same time I could see certain problems in the world H from a general perspective of of like men over a certain age they were having these common challenges in life and I thought there was a huge there was a huge calling for helping men similar to my age who I could really relate to and help uh and and the more I thought about it the more the more four-dimensional this this became so I would walk around in the day-to-day bases I would I would subconsciously be not not judging people in a bad way but I was I was talking to people they would say something to me or I would look at someone and I would I would see why I interpret as as some someone who wasn't really living the best life and I was like [ __ ] there's so people need need help so like when I get up in the morning there like people need my help not in a way that it's like oh people need me like a [ __ ] superhero I'm not talking about that I'm saying it gives me drive and purpose to go I need to [ __ ] do this there's more to to life than just just me and my selfish needs um so the modern Warrior Project started as as a thing that I created to kind of be in line with the the the people who I wanted to coach but then the more that I submerse myself in that and and as that's evolved it's become even more evident that yeah this is this is where I should be and it almost happened by accident not completely but it almost happened not in an ultra planned way it just sort of happened and evolved and as I was as I was going down this path of coaching men over 40 I thought yeah this is really what I I know I should be doing this and this is I know I'm in the right place now so that's that's really where the where the drive comes from that so for me it's about how can I now scale this in a way that myself and and other people that maybe in the same space are similar that are doing s running similar programs uh for men of a certain age it's like well there's a lot of people excuse my French but there's a lot of people need to sort of unfuck themselves out there and that's the way that I approach this and how can I be of help to these men who who really need accountability and structure and you know had to ref their purpose in life again realiz they're not past the best and that's that's really the angle that I I come from with this and everyone's different there's a a very diverse bunch of people com into the program but they all have similar common common challenges that that can be dealt with um and not only that it's about being part of something because people want to belong to something don't they human beings are social creatures they want to belong to something so it's not all about I need to lose x amount of pounds to get to the ideal shape and get a six-pack a lot of it is like you know come to the program with with challenges and problems or maybe be in a position where you feel you're not quite achieving your best and then get into the environment where you can be part of a community that you might not have otherwise so if someone Works in a factory as a as a supervisor and they're surrounded by negative [ __ ] all day long and then they find their their new circle inside a remote program that they can become part of and meet meet new people that are like-minded then the power really is in the community of of the program you're essentially problem solving you haven't just set something up so look I've been in the military I'm going to take advantage of this cuz it seems a bit popular at the moment you know learn all the skills I know learn my mindset it's not like that at all like you you've created something which has solving a problem for a demographic which quite often gets a bit lost at that particular time in their lives and you're you're giving them key thing I guess key mindset skills really is the level of great resilience andent a purpose which is what you uh had to which led you to towards your success with your SAS career and it's it's cool you're using those skills to sort of help others um and and you're definitely right we're very social creatures we We crave that community and you definitely see you know things that have developed success I whether it would be CrossFit or all sorts of things but I think the big thing which has really developed them has been the fact that they created a community out out of it and it's abut created without a community you need a community to help Direction because a community is the reason a community is there is because something's bringing those people together and usually there's purpose and Direction behind it so that's really cool to see just like one to one Co like one to one cachun is is is less effective I think it really is because you don't get the the the power of community and stuff you don't get that with the on to one client and this is something very very particular that that someone needs help with then I'm a huge believer in this this um sort of group group coaching method that I wasn't really a fan of before go back a few years ago I wasn't really a huge fan of that I didn't really understand it as much even though I'd been in a community myself of you know the military and in all honesty I I I unconsciously by accident created a program that's helped me personally with the same things so strangely enough everything that the guys need in the program that they come to me for I need I need also now I'm I'm maybe a step ahead when they come on the program because I've been doing this stuff a long time and you know I physically keep myself in shape and all my habits like you'll be the same you know we come from the same sort of yeah thought processes and all the rest of it you know we look after ourselves we eat the right Foods we we get enough sleep we're very into our optimizing our our um our our sort of our circadian rhythm and all that hence you know being part of the human 2014 um you know so it's we've got we've got that all already and we understand the benefits of that so it's essentially guiding guiding men through the same process so they can optimize themselves but when I think about everything that that I provide them with and what the rest of the community provides them with I always see this as a you're not like like you said a minute ago I'm not on this pedestal going you I was in the Special Forces I I [ __ ] I know everything about mental resilience and personal development coming I'll show you what you need to do to be under my umbrella it's like no I don't see that we all work together you know I'm part of the I'm part of the group as well yeah I might lead the group but they're all leading themselves as well they're all individual leaders in their own right they have companies they have they could be in charge of organizations they could be multimillionaires they could be people with a lot of responsibility who who need leadership but leadership starts with yourself as you know you know you have to lead yourself first before you can lead everybody else so a big part of it is leadership and it's is ownership of yourself and your your daily routines and habits and how you lead yourself through life so I always see this as I am part of this tribe as well H so and we work together and I have my faults I have my needs I often you know sometimes lean into a client who's got a particular expertise and say what do you think of this like some of the guys who are more senior now they've evolved in a sense that and I always say this with the guys come on the program there are different different levels to this or different phases initially you come because you need help with something because you don't have that knowledge or expertise or the structure whatever ever it may be you come for the help you stay for the community but what happens with a lot of people is they come on and they work on optimizing themselves so we always start with optimizing self is the first stage that comes down to your all your non-negotiables your self-care non-negotiables and all that uh and then it's about actualizing your potential what can I really achieve now that I have this robust vehicle to move through life how does that Journey now look what are my new destinations what what goals can I now set myself because I've got new standards physically and mentally what can I really achieve and so they're actualizing potential then they get to the point where they achieve some great things and then other people coming up behind them they're then transcended all that knowledge to them so it does full circle so now we got the beauty of is guys that have been in the program for two and a half years now helping out on the the contributors to the program and they always say the best leaders are the ones that bring the best out of everyone else they don't tell other people what to do absolutely you know if you're if you're exposed to a community which is full of people that have a load of different skill sets like you'd be silly not to take full advantage of that um absolutely yeah yeah to but that's what you got to check your ego in you got to check the ego because that's what gets in the way of a lot of it people's ego run the show and they let it run the show so they feel that you know it's a be like me not being transpar so so we have certain rules on the program and one of those is transparency and trans transparency needs a high level of honesty so when it comes to shares and you know what's going not so well in life at the moment you know I I'm first want to put my hand up and say guys you know had a bit of a [ __ ] week last week because what that then does is it builds trust and it lets them know that oh this guy's not claiming to be perfect he also has his faults and he's been honest about it so therefore I now feel comfortable to share my faults or my fuckups you know and that's that's what then you know when you when you can do the diagnosis in yourself and share that that's when you get the most help but it's about admitting the fact that yeah you know what something's not quite right here I need to help with this lean in and not shy away from it and not pretend that everything's hunky D it's not that's really cool to hear I know there's a lot around you know I guess promoting men to be a bit more vulnerable um I I quite often don't like the what you described is look guys I've had a bit of [ __ ] a bit of a [ __ ] week this week explain why explain how you felt about it and how you're currently dealing with it guys have you got any advice um it's interesting to see that scene as vulnerable um I don't know weirdly maybe it is but weirdly I've never seen that as vulnerability you know to assume that someone's never uh having a hard time or you're always perfect all the time is it's just misleading so just admitting that you've got times when you're feeling not too great or things haven't gone to plan it's weird that's seen as vulnerable because I don't know I don't see that as vulnerable if I had a if I to follow a particular leader like I wouldn't see them as vulnerable if they were admitting that they struggle at something to me that isn't vulnerability that's just I guess transparency um and builds trust I then trust that leader because they're being honest with me so I feel I can be honest with them yeah and that's going to help develop relationship in in whatever way that that relationship then goes further absolutely and that's one of the one of the core principles of leadership is is about trust you know people need to if someone doesn't trust you they won't want to follow you you they won't want to they won't have the trust in you to to follow you to the [ __ ] house never mind somewhere potentially threatening so you need to build that trust and and that can take time uh but the one thing that we always start with is honesty and one of the things I always say to the guys in the first it says you need to stop lying to yourself cuz most most people will lie to themselves to keep themselves safe or protected from the problem they need to face so they'll they'll justify things they'll lie to themselves so I always say like if you stop when you stop lying to yourself then you you start to deal with things that are really that are really important otherwise you just ignore [ __ ] that's really important and then continuously have that same pain and continuesly have to lie to yourself and that's just a pattern that develops and forments over time and the longer it goes on the harder is to undo how can anyone get involved with the modern Warrior Project I I always send someone to my application form so I don't have a website and it's it's not because I want to keep it all mistake remember I was saying at the beginning of the podcast about the mistake of the regiment it's not it's not intentional in that sense I am actually having a new website built um at the moment but at the moment it's it's all through my inst I all my all my applicants have got through organically through my Instagram uh and that's on my link Tree on on my Instagram uh profile and it's the modern Warrior Project application form it's right at the top so that that's the first thing anyone has to do is fill out a fill out a questionary an application process to get through that initial stage of filtration so that I can then decide who obviously goes to the next stage and then it's all I every single person that comes on that program I personally interview myself so it doesn't go through a sales team I I speak to every single person that comes on that program it's a quick call to start with and then obviously they get they get moved on to the next stage if they if they're successful uh or it's it's it's a polite this isn't probably going to work maybe is best way and that could be either way you know Cent I a prospects come on I call before who have decided that it's probably not best for them for whatever reason or they might not be a good fit so I had to I have to look after the Integrity of of the of the group and the tribe of guys have gotten it already that that everyone's going to be a good fit for the program and that can be for you know that can be on on a a multitude of different reasons but it's like anything else you know it has to be you know a around Peg and around hole otherwise it's not going to work honesty from the start even before you're in honesty is key yeah absolutely yeah and I have and I have to uh yeah yeah I have to do that because it's about if I don't do that then it's going to be the it's going to be the rock of the landslide if you start getting people who aren't a fit for the program in it's just not going to work it will never work so yeah but anyone who essentially wants to forge the best version themselves in whatever aspect of life it doesn't always have to be someone with problems it could be some I a lot of my clients come to me because they they have life's going good but it could be better so people who are costing along sometimes people who are too comfortable are in that in that sort of gray area of um where things aren't uncomfortable they're not uncomfortable they've got money they've got got time they've got success uh but they feel like they've got more but they're not quite getting that extra level out themselves and then you get other people who are maybe need some serious help so there's a huge diverse uh demographic in that sense but again the the challenges and the um you know the the problems that guys of a certain age face are quite similar in a lot of ways yeah what's your Instagram handle so people listening can head that direction my Instagram handles is the lindsy Bruce so just the word the then follow by my name the the lindsy Bruce uh and then my link tree's got all my all my links on it for the application and all that sort of stuff so yes pleas definitely recommend all listeners or Watchers if you can you can view this on YouTube as well but uh definitely head in that direction I defin have to get involved in the future if that's all right i' obviously i' I'm a father now and there's so many things that I want to teach my boy um I'm very much of that those who can't teach and I think I'm probably quite a good teacher I'm not very good at certain things so I want to do a load of experiences and hopefully with him to impart a lot of you know development of mindset teamwork Community uh chasing uh physical challenges you know just challenging yourself and uh I think uh you know your community is definitely something I want to get involved in a little bit so if that's uh okay on on that note as well Phil this is one of the things I've thought about a lot recently is that yeah coaching men over 40 or whatever that demographic is do sometimes they're a bit younger than that obviously but that's a kind of a staple requirement because I think that it's going to maybe deter a lot of 20 year olds from coming coming up and not being fit for that program um but at the same time what I am thinking about now is in the future there's has to be another layer to this so there has to be well the thought process behind this is why wait till the guys are 40 why don't intercept early in life and create a better existence for these guys before they get to a certain stage in life rather wait to their over 40 so that you're undoing a lot of problems D ex sense so rather fix the rather fix problems why not just prevent in the first place um mate thank you so much for coming on I really enjoyed that that was um that was great to talk about it because I've really reflected on I've read a lot about the SS recently and it's so good to hear that you say that they're Cut From a Different Cloth and try and understand what that different cloth is because I don't know so much which gets put out there it's all about discipline it's all about leadership and I like yeah I I agree but still we're talking about the 0.1% of the 0.1% of the 0.1% so what does that look like U so it's nice to get a good idea of what it does look like from someone that was yeah of the was the 0.1% of the 0.1% so mate thank you so much for coming on that was perfect oh it's been a pleasure me I really enjoyed it as well so thanks for having me on and uh yeah anyone that's listening that wants to you know link up with Lindy head to his Instagram page uh definitely check out the modern Warrior Project and um we might have to do round two at some point mate cuz I enjoyed that L absolutely great definitely cheers mate awesome stuff thanks very [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] much

Channel: The Progress Theory Podcast

Views: 3,580

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Id: JKBCYys551M

Length: 71min 55sec (4315 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 11 2024