Chris Hill: I'm Chris Hill, and I'm joined by Robert Brokamp, Jason Moser. Thanks for being here, guys! Robert Brokamp: Great to be here! Hill: We're going to be taking your questions.
We've got a few investment ideas if you're looking to build a watch list. But let's talk
about being a millionaire. Brokamp: Let's do it.
Hill: I mean, come on, when you're a kid, isn't that always the dream?
Brokamp: That's true. Hill: You think about being a millionaire. If you are,
you're in the top 10% of American households. I have to say, Bro, it really does seem
like one of those things that, while it is attainable, on the surface, it just seems
like it's out of reach for the average person. Brokamp: Right. I can understand that. After all, only 10% of people are able to do it.
It definitely takes some work. But you don't have to have an extraordinarily high income.
In fact, I'll give you three examples right now of people who are able to do it, kind
of everyday people. No. 1 was Dale Schroeder, who was a carpenter for 67 years in Iowa until
he died in 2005. He drove around in a Chevy truck, just wore jeans. Found out after he
died, he's worth $3 million, and he left it all to a charity to give scholarships to people
in small towns in Iowa to go to school. Genevieve Via Cava was a teacher for 45 years in
New Jersey. When she died, she was worth several million dollars. Again, left most of it to
charity. And then, another person was Sylvia Bloom, who worked as a secretary on Wall Street
for 67 years. She handled her boss's personal finances -- when he placed a trade for stocks,
she actually was the one who placed it, and then she would place one for herself as well.
And then, when she died in 2016 at the age of 96, she was worth $8 million. And she left
most of that to charity as well. So, it is possible.
Now, what's it take to get there? Well, recently, Fidelity released its report. Every quarter,
they look at the balances of people that have accounts at Fidelity. Turns out that the number
of people who are 401(k) millionaires has hit an all-time high. As of September 30th, there
are 200,000 people. A few years ago, they released a report on what it takes to do that.
They looked at the people who've amassed $1 million in their 401(k). What do they have
in common? They have these characteristics. No. 1: they've been doing it for a long time.
Most of them had been saving for at least 30 years. No. 2: they're saving a good a bit.
A good bit, but not an impossible amount. On average, they're contributing 14% to their
401(k), and their boss is throwing in another 5%, so, saving almost 20%. If you heard that
first point about 30 years, and you think, "I don't have 30 years," you can make up for
that missed time by saving a lot more than 20%. The other characteristic is, they invest
heavily in the stock market. The average 401(k) millionaire has 75% of their account in equities.
And the final thing is, they don't touch the money. They tend not to take out a 401(k) loan.
And more importantly, they don't do early withdrawals. If you take money out of that
account before you're 59.5, you'll pay taxes, you'll pay penalties. Shockingly, about 30%
of people, when they switch jobs, cash out their 401(k). What you should instead do is
transfer to your new 401(k) or transfer it to an IRA. Jason Moser: Yeah,
I'll speak from experience there, just having a few jobs in insurance and banking.
And every single time, I changed over. I just rolled that into an IRA that
I had developed for that very purpose, being able to take those 401(k) funds and put them
somewhere safe, in a retirement account, where I can keep on investing and saving as I was
doing with the previous job. The cashing out thing just befuddles me, I don't get it.
Hill: Obviously, some of the examples you gave early on go to how people choose to live
their lives. You don't have to be extravagant. You can be a little bit more modest with your
clothing, whatever vehicle you're driving, that sort of thing. But, Jason, I was really
struck by, a lot of what Robert was talking about goes to the miracle of compounding.
We were in here one time, Robert, we were talking about Social Security. You mentioned
the benefits you get, not only if you just wait until you're eligible, but also, if you
can delay that a little bit more. It's the same thing with investing, Jason. The further
you can push it out, the longer you can stay invested, the closer you are going get to
being a millionaire. Moser: Yeah. We talk often about getting to
that million-dollar number, or $2 million, or whatever that big number is. Yes, it is
hard. I mean, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it. But I think one of the reasons
why it's so hard, it's because it requires time, and our biology -- when we're young,
our biological makeup doesn't have that patience yet. We can't look at that long-term time
horizon when we are so young. Really, it's when we are so young that
we need to get this ball rolling. So, just to talk a little bit about what time
can do for you. We talk about the magic of compounding. Really, a big part of that equation
is time. If we look at just some of the data here, I looked at an NYU website here, where
Aswath Damodaran keeps some up-to-date returns from the market and whatnot. If we look at
the compounded value of $100 that was invested in the S&P 500 back in 1928 -- in other words,
you took $100, you put it in the S&P 500 back in 1928, and you just left it alone -- any
guesses as to how much that $100 is worth today? Hill: Directly, I'm going to just guess more. Brokamp: Up.
Moser: Yeah, up. $382,850. Now, we're closing in on 100 years there. Probably not a very
realistic timeline for the folks out there watching. They're like, "How does this apply to me?"
Well, let's take something a bit more recent. I do like keeping track of these things.
You go back to 1998, that $100 is now worth $380. And I'll let you in on a little secret here.
I'm dating myself, but I was born in 1972. So I thought, "Hey, let's take a look
at what that $100 would have done over the course of my lifetime if I had the wherewithal
when I was born to put $100 into the S&P 500 index fund." I would have almost $10,000 today
for doing nothing at all, just have to keep L-I-V-I-N, right? Just have to keep livin'.
But, what if I added $100 each year to that $100 seed money? This is where it becomes
just amazing. If I added $100 every year after that 1972 start, now I'm looking at almost
$121,000. So, my point is, No. 1, it's hard because it requires time and patience. But,
from a financial perspective, the hurdle is actually pretty low. You don't need to be
investing these absurd amounts of money. It's just about doing it. It's about being patient.
It's about keeping on doing it. And it is being able to see that forest for the trees,
understanding that ultimately, you're looking at this 30, 40-year timeline, because that
is the ultimate goal here. You're preparing yourself for later on in life when you're
going to need this money. Hill: Well, and Robert, I made the comment
at the start about, when you're a kid, you think, "Oh, a million dollars would be amazing."
But the fact of the matter is, a million dollars is not what it was when we were kids. Not only,
as Jason says, is this something that's attainable, I would argue it's increasingly important
that people at least aim to get there, because they're going to need the money
in their retirement years. Brokamp: Right. I'm going to turn to some
research again from Fidelity. They provide some pretty useful guidelines about how much
you should have saved by the time you retire. They recommend that you should have 12X your
salary if you want to retire at age 65. Now, obviously, that's just a guideline. Your situation
could be different. It depends on whether you've paid off your mortgage or not; it depends
on whether you have a pension or not. But, I think it's a good guideline. Actually,
you don't even need a million dollars if you're at the median household income, which these
days is $65,000. 12X that is $780,000. So, you wouldn't even need
$1 million to retire at age 65. However, knowing what I know about the consumers
of personal finance information, chances are, most of you out there are probably making
more. If your household income is $100,000, you need $1.2 million. If your household
income is $150,000, you need $1.8 million. So, it really does depend on your situation. And for many
of you out there, $1 million won't be enough. Moser: You say "need." I do want to push back on that just a little bit. It really does
boil down to how you're going to live your life. The quickest way to not become a millionaire
is to spend money like you're a millionaire. That's probably one of the biggest problems.
People spend probably a little bit more frivolously than they need to today, particularly in this
economy, where we have everything at the snap of a finger. So, I think it is worth stepping
back for a second and asking that initial question -- what is the goal? Why am I doing
this? Everybody's answer is going to be a little bit different. I think most people
out there, the answer is, I'm doing this to ensure my financial independence. I'm doing
this so that I, at whatever stage of life I'm in, or wherever I'm headed, I want to
make sure that I'm calling my shots and I'm financially secure. And when you think about
it from that perspective, look at the things that you do in life, and think about how you
might live your life down that road. How much do you need? How much do you want? What kind
of lifestyle are you going to lead? And if you can take some inventory there, it can
help you dictate what that number has to be. My suspicion is, that number is probably a
good bit lower than maybe that arbitrary million dollars that we tend to bandy about.
Hill: We're going to get to your questions in just a couple of minutes. But first, if
you're looking for some investment ideas, we've got a couple that you might want to
add your watch list. Robert, let me just start with you. Brokamp: I'm a big fan of indexing. We've talked about it on previous live events.
The bottom line is, it's very difficult to beat the index fund. But, when people hear "index
fund," they often think S&P 500 index fund. I like to go broader, so, a total market index
fund. The S&P 500 is great, but it's U.S. large caps. If you go total stock market index
fund, you get about 20% to 25% of mid-caps and small caps, which I think is a good way
to round out your portfolio. One idea there is the Vanguard Total Market ETF, ticker VTI.
I also think that people should have some international exposure. It's tough to argue
for that now because over the last five, 10 years, U.S. stocks have outperformed international
stocks. But, that comes in cycles, especially in decades. 80s were the time for international;
90s, U.S. First decade of 2000s, international; last decade, U.S. At some point, that time
will turn. So, I like the Vanguard Total International Stock Index ETF, ticker VXUS.
Moser: Didn't we recently switch over to that Total Market Index here in our 401(k) at work?
Brokamp: We added it, yeah. Hill: Jason, what about you?
Moser: I'm a stock guy. I love everything you said there, and I think that you really
need to follow that advice on the fund side. If you're looking at actual stocks, people
who have interest in owning individual businesses, personally, the younger you get started, the
better. I think that you really need to take a look at good dividend payers. Like we say,
time's your buddy. When you get a hold of good dividend payers when you're younger,
you can let that just go, and you're going to see compounding via capital
gains and the dividend payouts. A few of them that I really like. Microsoft
to me is a company that we all know, we all use it in some capacity in our personal or
our business lives. The investments that they've made in cloud and spatial computing have just
been phenomenal. They're starting to take hold and really produce some results.
So, beyond what they've already done to date, I think Microsoft is just a tremendous opportunity.
And then another one probably everybody's familiar with, Starbucks. I have a hard time
believing that 20 years from now, coffee is going to be disrupted. There is no digital
substitute. You need to hook that stuff to my veins and keep it coming. Starbucks has
gotten to a point where it's so big, I don't even think they really have to worry about
the threat of competition. If that competition comes up, they could buy it. So, I think Starbucks
is really poised to continue doing very well. And if they ever nail the food part of the
equation, Chris, I'd imagine that's even a bigger market opportunity.
And then, a couple of other ideas for folks out there that may be looking for a little
bit of a different market there. You know I love the payments space. I do believe that
Visa and MasterCard are poised to be very big parts of our financial system for decades
to come. I don't think they're going to be the companies that are disrupted. I think
they're the companies that will be aiding the disruption of our financial markets in
digital payments as we spend our money differently. So, four dividend payers that I think investors
can buy and hang on to for many, many years. I will say that personally, I own two of them
in Visa and MasterCard. I don't know why I don't own Microsoft and Starbucks, but maybe
this will light the fire that I needed to go get them. Hill: Well, it's an interesting point you make about disruption in the financial space,
because certainly, you can go back five years or so, with the rise of PayPal, Venmo, those
types of things. There were people saying, "This might be bad news for Visa and MasterCard."
And it's like, no, they just keep humming along. Moser: Yeah, well, they
figured out very quickly how to work with these companies that are
helping disrupt the space. It's a testament to that tollbooth model that they've set up
from the very beginning. That value proposition that they offer is more or less that clearing
house, so to speak. It's just very difficult to disrupt it. When you get that big, it gives
you the opportunity to invest in the space and be a part of reshaping the space as opposed
to being disrupted out of the space. Hill: If you're looking for more information
to get on your path to being a millionaire, we've got a free investing kit. You can check
it out at fool.com/start. It's The Motley Fool's free investing kit. It actually comes
with five additional stock ideas. So check that out when you get a chance.
We're gonna get to your questions. And, as always, if you like the video, please consider
giving us a thumbs up. It helps other people find the videos that we're doing here.
Let's start with this, from Ming, who asks, "How do you measure your wealth or net worth?
Do you include your home? Or is it just your liquid funds?"
Brokamp: In that stat you mentioned earlier, the 10%, that's from the Federal Reserve,
and that does include your home and even your furniture and your car and everything.
That stat does include that. So, if you want to do your net worth that way, that's fine.
I don't necessarily include it when I'm calculating how much I need for retirement, though.
I would only include things that you will use to spend in retirement, which generally is
IRAs, 401(k)s, brokerage accounts. Now, you can use home equity, if, for example,
you're going to have a plan for downsizing. You can think, "Well, I'm going to sell my
four-bedroom house in the D.C. suburbs," for example, "and then buy a two-bedroom house
in Florida, and be able to probably pocket good $200,000 to $300,000." In that case,
I think you could include that in the amount that you're devoting to your retirement savings.
Moser: I mean, if anything, when you include that home equity, it makes you feel a little
bit better, feel a little bit richer, right? Brokamp: And you are. That is a resource.
Even if you don't plan to move, you could do a reverse mortgage or a home equity loan
if you need it. It is a good resource. Hill: One viewer asks, "You were talking about
how payments seem like such a great space to invest in. Are there any industries
that you would not touch?" Moser: I tend to stay away from those commodity
spaces. I think the natural idea that always just comes to my mind first is oil and gas,
the energy space. It's not that I dislike the space. Obviously, we need energy. There
are a lot of great companies out there that are helping make the world go around. But,
generally, those companies are all levered to the price of the commodity, and that dictates
how those stocks -- it becomes very difficult to make those investments and then just buy
and hold them. You have to be a little bit more aware of where we are in the cycle as
far as energy prices go. I do think that, over the longer haul, we are trying to move
away from fossil fuels and more towards sustainable energy sources. Perhaps those would be a little
bit more interesting, because they incorporate a little bit more of the tech side. But, yeah,
oil and gas is one of the first ones that comes to mind for me.
Hill: MK asks, "Can you discuss the benefits of a Roth IRA? It seems like
an awesome tool for people." Brokamp: Yeah, totally agree. The traditional
IRA -- just to make sure everyone's on the same page -- when you put the money in, you
get a tax break. But when you take the money out in retirement, you pay taxes. Roth is
the other way around. No tax break today, but the money comes out tax-free in retirement.
Why is that such a good idea? Well, with tax rates as low as they are -- the lowest in
generations -- the tax break you're getting from participating in the traditional is not
as good as it once was. So, by participating in the Roth you are getting
a tax break, but it's not as valuable as it used to be. In the future,
you'll have that tax-free income. I don't think anyone who gets to retirement with Roth
assets is going to regret it and say, "Boo hoo, I have too much tax-free assets."
Moser: You have to ask the question, where do I think taxes are going to be 20, 30 years
from now? Chances are probably pretty good they're going to be higher. Obviously,
it ebbs and flows as things go in D.C. But that really is the question, right? For me,
instead of having one or the other, I have one of each. I have a traditional and a Roth. I think
that's a great way to diversify and make sure you get your bases covered.
Brokamp: A couple other quick benefits of the Roth IRA. No required minimum distributions
at age 70.5. You can let it grow for as long as you want. And, the contributions that you
put into the Roth IRA, you can take out tax and penalty-free anytime. So, if you think
of that as a big, fat emergency fund, you don't have to worry about those penalties.
I don't recommend it, but it's good to know that you can do it. There's
more flexibility with a Roth IRA. Hill: Ron asks, "What do you think about micro-cap
stocks? Should investors be looking there for winners?"
Moser: Is that Ron Gross? Just kidding, Ron. Listen, the first Foolish service I ever
joined was Hidden Gems, our small-cap service. I've got a really soft spot in my heart for
small-caps and micro-caps. I love them. Now, with that said, you have to recognize,
there is that song of the siren, these tiny companies that can become these multi-baggers.
And in some cases, they can; but oftentimes, these micro-caps are micro-caps for a reason.
It's very difficult to compete in a space when you're smaller and you don't have those
financial resources. So, I love them, but when you're investing in micro-caps, it really
is kind of like investing in the biotech space. Maybe think about a basket approach. Maybe
own 10 different micro-caps, because some of them do stand a very good chance of going
to zero, but some certainly do stand the chance of being big-time multi-baggers, and that
can be a very powerful thing for your portfolio. Hill: Bill asks, "How are you guys thinking
about building wealth for people already near retirement age?"
Brokamp: Well, the first thing you should do is consider extending your retirement age.
You mentioned earlier the power of delaying Social Security. I mentioned the guideline
from Fidelity that says if you want retire at age 65, you should have 12X your income.
If you retire at 67, you only need 10X your income. If you retire at age 70, you only need 8X.
That is because you are delaying Social Security, which grows 8% every year
you delay it. When you retire, it's providing more of your income, and your portfolio doesn't
have to do as much of the heavy lifting. That's No. 1. No. 2, the other thing is, for people who haven't saved much for retirement, they do
have home equity. Is there a way to downsize? Is there a way to move to a lower-cost part
of the country? That has two benefits. First of all, you unlock equity that you can invest
in the stock market; but also, it lowers your cost of living, so you don't need as much.
Hill: Question from Ferosh, who asks, "I'm hearing a lot about the stock market being
at the top and overheating. Is it risky to invest in an S&P index at this point?
Should we wait for a correction first?" Moser: We've been having this conversation
for my entire career here, Chris. 10 years, we've been talking about, when is the market
going to be tanking? Because the market has really been on fire for a long time.
That boils down to trying to make a call. Four years ago, we were thinking, at some point,
this thing has to correct. And here we are today, things seem to be better than ever.
So, the danger there in trying to wait is missing out on those returns. We talk about
this all the time. The one thing you need to do is remain invested, stay invested. It's
very difficult to try to pick and choose those entries and exits. Rather, invest and keep
on doing it. Do it continuously. We're not saying just throw everything in the S&P 500
today. Particularly if you're concerned with valuations, that’s understandable, perhaps
think about investing some now and then methodically, over time, continue to invest in. It's very
much like when we get paid here for our job. A little portion of that money goes into our
401(k) plan. That's something that happens on a regular basis, so, we catch the market peaks,
we catch the market troughs. It makes for a nice, smooth trip up,
as long as you keep on doing it. Brokamp: I'll just mention the golden rule
that we always talk about here. That is, any money you need in the next three to five years,
you should probably not have in the stock market. It is part of why I made the recommendation
for international stocks, because they are cheaper. I'm not going to make a call of what's
going to do well over the next two or three years, but I would be very surprised if over
the next ten years, U.S. stocks have outperformed international stocks. Tune in
10 years from now, see if I'm right. Hill: [laughs] Pamela asks, "I have a basic
question. Where's the best place to purchase these stocks or funds?" She adds parenthetically,
lowest fee. I'll just add that it's a really good time to be looking to open an account.
Just in the last few weeks, we had the cascading effect of Schwab, TD Ameritrade... Pretty much -- E*Trade -- all the brokerages coming
out and saying, zero fees when it comes to trading. Moser: Yeah, and I don't think that's ever going to change. I think we've gotten down
to the bottom there and now we're going to see some consolidation in the space. Already
looking at Schwab and TD Ameritrade talking about tying up there. There are plenty of
options there as far as online brokerages. I would encourage you, make sure it is something
where fees are zero. You should not be paying any fees at all today. You look at an app
like Robinhood, for example, that I think really set that standard for a younger generation.
Robinhood's great, it does what it does very well, but recognize the fact that a platform
like Robinhood is going to be very bare bones, it's going to be less robust. You're not going
to have nearly the information or resources that you would get with something like a
TD Ameritrade or a Schwab or the combined entity once they're done with the acquisition there.
But, yeah, definitely plenty of online brokers out there. Shop around. Just make sure that
you're paying zero in fees. Brokamp: That means
commissions and account fees. Hill: And they all want your business. That's
the other thing. They're all competing for your business. You should be able to find
something that works. Jeevan asks, "Is the Thrift Savings Plan similar to an IRA?"
Brokamp: It's similar to a 401(k). The Thrift Savings Plan is the 401(k) for federal workers,
and it is outstanding. Mostly index-based investments, but it's extremely low-cost.
As a foundational retirement savings vehicle, I think it's a great deal. If I were working for the federal
government, I would be participating to the max. Moser: I once had a Thrift myself. I spent five years working for the State Department
and contributed to my Thrift all the way up. I think they had a Class A, B, C, D, and E
or something. And each class was a different investment vehicle. Very similar to the kind of stuff
that you would get at any other employer, though. And, the nice part is, if, at some
point, you cut ties with the federal government and go work in private industry, it is just
as easy to roll over as any other type of 401(k) or IRA. I did it.
Hill: Fred asks, "Is it worth the extra expense to hire a financial advisor
who touts a fiduciary status?" Brokamp: I'm a big fan of the fiduciary status.
Basically, what that means is, they are legally obligated to put your interests first. You'd
think anyone who calls themselves a financial advisor would be required to do that, but
that's actually not true. You need to look for someone who is working from the fiduciary
standard. That means they have fewer conflicts of interests, they're going to look at your
whole portfolio and say, "This is the best investment for you not because it earns me
the best commission." So, I think it is worthwhile. Hill: Sharon asks, "Say you like a stock."
Moser: I like a stock. Hill: [laughs] "Can you address timing when
to buy the stock, how to find the right price Sometimes I'll see something is a pick right
now. How do you guys decide that?" Moser: Well, Sharon, that's my job, ultimately,
is picking stocks and then telling our members when to buy them. There is a process in place
where we analyze the business, we come up with what we think is a reasonable valuation,
and then you make an assumption there on what you think the future may hold, and you determine
where you think maybe a fair entry point is. But that's something that we do here on a
daily basis, is recommending stocks. We don't do it solely based on valuation, I will say.
Valuation is just one part of the overall analysis there.
I could probably go into this and talk for an hour. I'm not going to do that. But, yeah,
generally speaking, we always feel like the best time to invest is now. There are always
great opportunities out there. As business-focused investors, we're focused more on the business,
not as much about the valuation, but, price always matters. Depending on the business
model and how all of that works together, that's all of the stuff that goes into the
calls that we make. Hill: Nathaniel asks, "I'm changing jobs now
and will be rolling over a 401(k). If I roll over into a self-managed IRA, can I use these
funds to invest in stocks? Can I use it to do short trading using credit spreads?"
Brokamp: [laughs] When you roll the money from a 401(k), where you go, you look for a
brokerage that offers what you're looking for. If you are looking to buy stocks, you
look for the brokerage that has no commissions and offers the stocks that you want. If you're
looking for funds, you look for the brokerage that's offering the funds that you want. I'm
not sure about that last one. I've not heard that too often. There are some rules about
what can be traded in an IRA. And then, brokerages, on top of that, impose their own rules. So,
I think you'd have to look for a specialized IRA provider. I'm not sure
I'd recommend it anyhow. Hill: G asks, "Is blockchain the new buzzword for tech
companies and banks? I'm seeing it everywhere. How do you separate the contenders
from the pretenders?" Moser: Well, blockchain, Bitcoin, cryptocurrency,
they all have been working together, and we've seen this rise and fall. Maybe we're in the
trough of disillusionment right now on that hype cycle in regard to blockchain and cryptocurrency.
I think the technology behind blockchain, the argument is that it can impact a number
of different markets, a number of different verticals, so to speak, versus something like
cryptocurrency. We're going to have to wait and see how that really shakes out. It does
really feel like we've seen a lot of money disappear. Money that's been invested in this
cryptocurrency space, based on this blockchain technology, it's money that has almost just
essentially evaporated. And I think a lot of that is because it's such a nascent technology.
We don't know a lot about it and how it's going to work in our world in the future.
So, yeah, be careful investing in stuff like that. Make sure you understand what it is
before you actually start buying into it. Hill: Alright, just a couple more questions
before we wrap up. Sam Pacino asks, "Is it worth paying attention to the stocks that
are performing well within your 401(k) and then invest heavily into those
individual stocks separately?" Moser: The school of David Gardner, right?
Add to your winners. I mean, I love that idea. I tell you, when I got here 10 years ago,
it wasn't a concept I was as familiar with. I think it's one of my favorite lessons I've
learned from David, is being able to add to your winners. We're always looking for that
stock on sale. We want to buy something on sale, buy it for cheap, when the fact of the
matter is, the reason why these stocks are performing well is because their businesses
are performing well. You want to buy into businesses that are performing well. It's
difficult, maybe, the first couple of times to do, but the more you do it, the better
and easier it gets. I'm a big proponent of adding to your winners.
Hill: Last question. "Should you use a regular IRA and a Roth at the same time?"
Brokamp: You can. You get what Jason was alluding to earlier. It's basically what people call
Uncle Sam diversification, or tax diversification. We don't know what future tax rates will be,
so it's good to have a little bit in both. Some people who contribute to the Roth or
considering it worry about the future. Congress can change laws. That has happened
in the past. Before 1986, interest on credit cards was deductible. Then they changed the law.
So, it's possible that in the future, the Roth won't be completely tax-free. You hedge
that by having both. Also, once you're in retirement, it allows you to manage your
tax bill. In a year where you're particularly high-income, you use the Roth. If you're low-income,
you take from the traditional. Hill: The old Uncle Sam hedge.
Brokamp: There you go. You never know what he's going to do.
Hill: Alright, Robert Brokamp, Jason Moser, guys, thanks for being here.
Moser: Thanks. Hill: Thanks so much for watching. Check out
our free investing kit. You can find that at fool.com/start. It comes with five stocks
if you're looking to build out that watch list. Thanks again for watching! Thanks for
giving us a thumbs up to help spread the word! I'm Chris Hill. Thanks for watching!
We'll see you next time.
