ALSO, THE VICE CHAIR OF THE MINORITY CAUCUS IN THE GEORGIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, ERICA THOMAS. >>> NOW TO THE "NEW YORK TIMES" INVESTIGATION THAT SHOWS SCORES OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SUPPORTERS UNKNOWINGLY DONATED A LOT MORE MONEY TO HIS CAMPAIGN THAN THEY WANTED TO. "THE TIMES" SPOKE WITH SEVERAL TRUMP SUPPORTER WHO IS THOUGHT THEY’D SIGNED UP TO SEND A SINGLE SMALL-DOLLAR DONATION. INSTEAD, THEY SAW THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS SIPHONED FROM THEIR ACCOUNTS. WITH US NOW, LET’S BRING IN THE AUTHOR OF THAT INVESTIGATIVE PIECE, "NEW YORK TIMES" NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, SHANE GOLDMACHER. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. MAN THAT STORY IS HEAVY. AND I MEAN IT IN THIS RESPECT. WHEN YOU STARTED WITH THE POOR MAN WHO WAS IN HOSPICE WHO WANTED TO CONTRIBUTE TO DONALD TRUMP. I’M SURE HE THOUGHT, YOU KNOW WHAT, I’M IN HOSPICE, BUT I RAHAL WANT REALLY WANT TO HELP THIS GUY, I WANT TO TAKE PART IN THIS ELECTION. AND ONCE HE DID, SUDDENLY, MORE AND MORE MONEY KEPT GETTING WITHDRAWN. HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT TO DO. HIS FAMILY DIDN’T KNOW WHAT TO DO. AND THAT STORY WAS REPEATED TIME AND TIME AGAIN. PEOPLE HAVING TO SHUT DOWN THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS, THEIR CREDIT CARDS. PEOPLE HAVING ALL OF THEIR MONEY SIPHONED OUT BY THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. TALK ABOUT IT, IF YOU WILL, AND TELL ME, WHERE DID YOU FIRST HEAR ABOUT THE STORY? WHAT GOT YOU ON TO THIS STORY? >> AT THE CENTER OF THIS IS THE FACT THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAST FALL, WHILE FACING THEIR OWN FINANCIAL HARDSHIPS, BEGAN PRE-CHECKING BOXES TO START WITHDRAWING DONATIONS FROM THEIR SUPPORTERS EVERY SINGLE WEEK UNTIL THE ELECTION. AND AT ONE POINT, THEY ACTUALLY EXTENDED THE DATE TO DECEMBER 14th, TO WEEKS BEYOND THE ELECTION. AND SO FOR THESE PRE-CHECKED BOXES, THAT MEANS YOU HAD TO WADE THROUGH A BUNCH OF FINE PRINT, WHICH BECAME MORE LONGER AND COMPLICATED AS FINANCES WORSENED FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. AND IF YOU DIDN’T UNCHECK THOSE BOXES, YOU WERE OPTED IN. AND THAT KIND OF DESIGN, WHICH CRITICS HAVE CALLED DARK PATTERNS, ENTRAPPED TONS OF SUPPORTERS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP. AND YOU CAN SEE IT BASED ON A FEW THINGS. "A," THERE WERE THE INDIVIDUALS IMPACTED. WHICH THEIR STORIES CAN BE REALLY HEARTBREAKING. BUT AT SCALE, AT THE END OF THE CAMPAIGN OR AT THE END OF LAST YEAR, THE TRUMP OPERATION, ALL OF THEIR REPUBLICAN COMMITTEES HAD REFUNDED MORE THAN 10% OF EVERY DOLLAR THAT THEY HAD RAISED ONLINE THROUGH THIS WEBSITE CALLED WINRED, WHICH IS THE DONATION PROCESS FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. 10% OF EVERY DOLLAR THEY RAISED, WHICH ADDED UP TO MORE THAN $122 MILLION. AND TO COMPARE, THE BIDEN OPERATION HAD A REFUND RATE OF ABOUT 2.2%. IT’S NOT EVEN CLOSE TO EACH OTHER. AND THAT RATE WAS EVEN HIGHER AT THE END, WHEN THEY DID THESE PRE-CHECK BOXES EVERY WEEK. YOU SAW THIS MASSIVE REFUND RATE, A SURGE OF PHONE CALLS TO CREDIT CARD COMPANIES WHERE PEOPLE SAID, I’M A VICTIM OF FRAUD FRAUD. I DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED HERE. WHY IS WINREAD AND THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN TAKING MONEY OUT OF THEIR ACCOUNT EVERY SEVEN DAYS. PEOPLE GET THEIR CREDIT CARD BILL AND IF THEY GAVE $200, THEY SEE SIX CHARGES, IT’S $1,200. OR YOU CAN SEE 15 CHARGES ON YOUR CREDIT CARD. >> REALLY, YOUR ARTICLE REALLY HELPED EXPLAIN SOME THINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING AND CONNECTED SOME DOTS. YOU HAD DONALD TRUMP FALLING BEHIND JOE BIDEN NOT HAVING THE MONEY THAT BIDEN HAD IN THE LEAD UP TO THE ACTUAL ELECTION, BEING ANGRY BECAUSE THERE WEREN’T ADDS UP IN MICHIGAN OR OTHER SWING STATES. THEY STARTED GETTING REALLY AGGRESSIVE AND USED THESE UNDERHANDED TACTICS, THAT WE CONTINUE TO WITHDRAW MONEY FROM CONTRIBUTORS’ ACCOUNTS. SO THEN THEY HAD, AFTER THE ELECTION, THEY HAD -- HE USED THE MONEY, OF COURSE, THIS IS SO TRUMPIAN. HE USED THE MONEY TO GET THROUGH ELECTION DAY. AND AFTER THE ELECTION, THEY HAD TO START REFUNDING MONEY, SO WHERE DOES HE GET THE MONEY TO DO THAT, FROM ALL OF HIS URGES AND PLEADINGS TO HIS PEOPLE TO SEND MONEY TO STOP THE STEAL. EXPLAIN HOW THAT HAPPENED AND HOW THAT WORKED OUT FROM DONALD TRUMP. >> ALL OF THE SUPPORTER WHO IS HAD THESE DONATIONS RECURED EVERY WEEK, THIS MONEY WENT RIGHT INTO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN’S BANK ACCOUNT. AND THEY WERE STRUGGLING FINANCIALLY IN OCTOBER. THEY HAD MILLIONS OF DOLLARS MORE IN TELEVISION ADS BOOKED ENTERING THE LAST MONTH THAN THEY HAD DOLLARS ON HAND. NOW, AFTER THE ELECTION, THEY BEGAN REFUNDING MORE AND MORE OF THIS MONEY. PEOPLE GOT THEIR CREDIT CARD BILL. LET’S SAY YOU WERE OPTED INTO THIS EVERY WEEK IN THE BEGINNING OF%. GOT YOUR CREDIT CARD BILL EARLY IN NOVEMBER, YOU WOULD SAY, HEY, WHAT IS THIS? AND WINRED DID FOR THE MOST PART DID GIVE PEOPLE REFUNDS WHEN THEY ASKED FOR THEM. BUT WHEN THEY DID, THAT MEANT A BUNCH OF MONEY COMING BACK OUT OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN COFFERS. IF YOU LOOK AFTER ELECTION DAY, WHILE THE PRESIDENT WAS MAKING THESE CHARGES, THESE UNFOUNDED CHARGES THAT THIS ELECTION WAS STOLEN FROM HIM, HE WAS RAISING TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM HIS SUPPORTERS. FAR MORE OF THAT MONEY WENT TO PAYING OFF REFUNDS THAN IT DID TO THE LEGAL FIGHT THAT HE WAS ENGAGED IN IN NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER. AND THAT’S A BIG DEAL, RIGHT? THIS IS HOW HIS SUPPORTERS WERE TOLD TO GIVE MONEY AFTER THE ELECTION AND THIS IS HOW IT WAS ACTUALLY SPENT. >> ALL RIGHT. "NEW YORK TIMES" NATIONAL
Why am I not surprised. This basically was the last four years in a nutshell. For the last four years, I have maintained that the government of the United States of America was captured by the crew of a pirate ship. That this could happen and could happen again is the scariest part.