Hitchens DESTROYS Anti-Palestine Pro-Israel Arguments

I wanted to play a little clip that I came across um a moment ago um as as people know um and we all know we've done a lot on on him uh particularly his horrifying right-wing turn later in life um but as people know uh you know myself and Matt and Ben all used to be big uh fans of of Christopher Hitchens before his right-wing uh turn and uh I'm not playing these in any way to kind of sanitize his image but um you know one thing about him is he was a very effective communicator and maybe somebody watching this later um you know might might be swayed by it because uh one thing that's interesting about Christopher Hitchens is the people who've ended up holding his leg Legacy um tend to be more on the right for sure right and this kind of like new atheist movement um that uh is gung-ho of supporting uh Israel um in a way that's sort of bizarre uh to me but we have some vintage uh Christopher Hitchens here um for yall talking about Israel and Palestine um in a way that I think might shock some people who only consider Hitchens to be a kind of neocon um so let's just play a little bit of this um as a reminder somebody who was saying these things on American uh you know television on C-Span in particular um you know that would still even get you in a lot of trouble for saying and and Hitchens is right in most of this good morning great uh uh like your Ty type of argument you basically have intellectual discussion instead of uh screaming argument I'm a I'm a Libertarian basically on the opposite side of the spectrum of you but uh I wonder if you could clarify a couple things for me I believe Palestine was the entire area covering Israel and Jordan I wonder if you could tell me at what point the Palestinians went to Jordan and I realized they were kicked out when they blew up some passenger Jets or something and uh I do are you familiar with that uh yes I think more than you are um by the sound of it I'm not sure I don't well go ahead basically revolved around the pal that were from Israel I don't understand if the uh there's 22 Arab states why they have to take over Israel uhuh um well there are 49 American states if someone told you you couldn't apart from the one you're sitting in if someone told you actually we would rather have your bit of Los Angeles for ourselves from now on this will only be this you can only be a landh holder or a householder here if you profess the let's say Muslim or Buddhist Faith otherwise get out this bits ours you're happy to go to Colorado on that basis I don't think so and I think if you think about it you wouldn't insult anyone else by treating them their society or their country as as disposable as that the Palestinians do not feel uh that God gave the land to someone else and they therefore have to be flung out and I completely agree with them they they've every right to resist that ridiculous proposal Cape Cod Massachusetts so we'll get to this second one and just the moment um but I think that you know this again um is is a good example of uh the way that these things get sort of turned um into uh simplistic um and incorrect view views um by like a lack of understanding history and context but most importantly I think uh a kind of U as a subject I mean a lot of people have a hard time putting themselves into the Palestinian position and what that experience um has been like I think kitchen's you know making the argument there about saying it's like well how would you feel if your home of of Los Angeles California um you know was suddenly taken from you and to live there uh you know you had to uh borrow uh take on another faith and another identity um lose the ability of of self-government and self-rule um you know it's such a a simple kind of argument um that that he's making here but it's very profound right um because I think a lot of people don't consider it or think about it like this um at all instead it's this kind of simplistic uh numbers game numbers question um so I think that's a good one let's play this a little bit of this next one here um which is uh with uh um Sullivan I'm forgetting his first name who's still around writing um and and Hitchin going a little back and forth on this question go ahead please good morning a question for Mr hiton please you're going you're on ask away do you believe it's healthy for the United States to be so much influenced by Israel we are a large country they are very small but they have much influence in the media and especially in politics thanks well believe me I I know um I believe I understand the question and there are various tones of voice in which it can be asked and including a a tone of voice that I don't like that suggests that there's a sort of covert Jewish hand that directs US policy which is not true and very often clusters with other forms of unpleasantness I do think that the United States gives far too greater proportion of its military aid budget to Israel and in return asks for insufficient Israeli responsibility uh the Israelis are the custodians of the West Bank by an act of War they occupation of it is not recognized as legal I've already said what I think should happen about that there should be a West Bank State the United States could make that difference you could say to the israelies we will defend the existence of a Jewish Community or a Jewish state in Palestine we will not underwrite it becoming an expansionist and colonial state if you want to do that you pay the difference yourself that would that that alone would have probably solved the uh Problem by now and I do wish yes if you want to put it like that that there was more um cogent discussion along those lines in both the media and in Congress and as for the Israelis everybody knows that the because I mustn't seem to duck that question because I know how toxic it is everybody knows that if you want to occupy people against their will if you want to be the the governor of of another people who haven't chosen you you will end up visiting terrible cruelty on them there cannot there certainly cannot be a Humane occupation the majority of so again I think that you know he he that that's another good clip of being able to you know speak uh to the lobbying role of organizations like APAC in this country uh without falling into some of the traps uh that we see out here um and and also pushing back against the the very real and nasty uh accusations that you do hear uh from time to time and and not playing any ball with them condemning them immediately but also uh being able to move on and talk about the very real dynamics and and political conditions I'm going to play one last one uh from a very very uh young hitch and then I'm probably going to run um but I appreciate all of y'all so much but let's uh hear one more here um because this is a pretty good uh collection of of of of Hitchens responses to a lot of these questions and also one thing to note is just how much has happened right um over these past few decades and also how much the fundamentals of the conversation are are very similar Christopher Hitchens let's go to Cambridge Maryland good morning good morning good morning thank you very much Mr Hitchens I have three direct questions short questions for you please do you feel that Israel has a right to exist within secure borders do you feel that the United States should intervene should Iran and or Russia try to close the Straits of Hormuz and would you seek relief from a 24-hour shoot on side curfew from any quarter uh in which relief might be found thank you all right thanks for the call very good questions and and I think I know what you're trying to pin me down on uh on the first yes I do um but I think the securely recognized borders should not allow for Israeli colonization or occupation of the territory of its neighbors which is what it's doing now the right to exist argument has been um has been used now to the point where what it's going to mean is that the Israel you're talking about will include the the annexed and illegally occupied West Bank um so the right to exist argument is going to rebound on those who use it unclearly and who don't say what they mean by Israel it's very interesting the Israeli um government has never said where it thinks the borders of Israel really ought to be and what it would settle for I think it would be an immense help if Israel is going to insist on the right to exist if it tells us where it thinks Israel's boundaries should be every other country does do that I better give you the straight answer um I'll just say I like my Hitchens like I like my wine young and red I'm going to run um but I just want to say just very briefly in closing um you know we're certainly going to be covering uh this a lot over you you know as long as we need to um but I wanted to sort of end on on a note of practi practical consideration for the American uh left in labor movement on this question the American left um from progressives to the uh members of the DSA to the organization of of of the DSA has sort of been embroiled in a in a conflict um under under the radar uh for a while now over the question of supporting Palestinian humanity and Liberation um and one of the uh you and and with with high cost um you know I've been extremely frustrated uh with some of members of our movement um some of the leadership um and and some of the activities and statements and things that have happened over the past few days I've been pleasantly surprised by some um uh but uh I think that zooming out a little bit we have to look at the context of building a strong labor movement and and left in this country um and supporting the humanity and dignity of of of of Palestinians uh puts a big Target on the left's back and there is always been this kind of question about whether or not the left you know should maybe hold these principles but hold them kind of uh privately and quietly um I think with what we're we're seeing right now it is extremely clear that backing down um is an evacuation of any commitment uh to internationalism to solidarity and to humanity itself and this is not a time uh to be timid this is a time to say we are against a parth we against the occupation um we uh condemn uh you know attacks of violence against uh civilians by Hamas um but that does not mean that we no longer think Palestinians have deserved dignity Humanity um and deserve to have a future it is very clear right now your particularly in a state like New York the entire Democratic party um is attacking the DSA in particular um uh with some of the most vitalic language um attempts to sideline them to demobilize and and to defeat that that political movement um using uh this as a this this conflict as a kind of pretext for that this is a time for us to be able to band together and and to show solidarity um and to recognize that there is no um um Middle Road on on this question you are either for uh the the Dignity of Palestinian people or you are not um and uh anyone who continues to make this argument that you can be Progressive uh except for Palestine uh I think they might need to be shown the the door in our political movement uh because on a basic question of of human rights of humanity um and of of human dignity which anyone who considers themselves to be a progressive or a socialist um should uh be willing uh to stand up for and demand for others uh this is a real test of of people's commitment um because the same people who are cowardly in the face of insults and even attacks um from elected officials that we've been seeing um they will be just as timid on domestic issues I mean could you imagine um you you've you've seen time and time again uh some people who sort of cozy up to this movement uh will turn their backs on us very very quickly when it gets difficult saw that with Bernie Sanders campaigns for example certainly we'll see that if we start getting more gains in the labor movement um so this is a kind of non-negotiable uh fight and uh I think that uh you know this is a difficult moment because of what's happening in in Gaza I think it's been a difficult moment because a lot of people are showing their true colors and their commitment to Human Rights and and and their belief in those Concepts um but I think that this is a kind of big watershed moment in in the movement that we're building and with that friends I'm going to run uh we'll be back this Sunday with a uh bonus episode uh for left Reckoning patrons you get access to that patreon.com Reckoning uh we will be back on Tuesday with the main show appreciate everybody for spending some time with me this Thursday afternoon look out for each other um and uh you know take care friends see you [Music] [Music] soon

Channel: Left Reckoning

Views: 75,321

Keywords: bernie sanders, david griscom, internationalist, left reckoning, matt lech, progressive news, socialism, socialist news, southern socialism, texas socialism, tmbs, gaza, hunger strike, israel, israel palestine conflict, israel palestine protest, israel/palestine, palestine, palestine prison escape, palestine spoon, palestinian prisoners, west bank

Id: qX51mvBw-7U

Length: 14min 57sec (897 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 16 2023